Does anyone else think it's fucked up how "white" has become a full-blown substitute for "bourgeois" in leftist discourse (especially academic) the past so many decades?
I mean, think about how "white" gets tagged on to everything in order to designate reproduction of ruling class ideology, i.e. vulgar trends in feminism are called "white feminism" rather than "bourgeois feminism" or "imperialist feminism", promoting veganism in a semi-chauvinist or elitist manner is called "white veganism" rather than "bourgeois veganism", "white people" have become synonymous with middle class suburbanites (mini-porkies) or just anyone whose mindset is immersed in the ideology of the status quo, and so on. People of color who are outright apologists for capitalism are said to have "colonized minds" or "white minds" rather than "bourgeois minds" - what fucking gives?
We're often told by postcolonial theory and intersectionality BS that it's impossible to understand capitalism without understanding (European) colonialism and white supremacy (notice how they deliberately gloss over proto-capitalist economies in the Islamic World and how they interacted mutually with Euros), but no one ever says it's impossible to talk about colonialism and white supremacy without talking about relations or production, or how these systems manifest in their modern forms without talking about capitalism. Even environmental destruction is understood as a "product of WHITENESS" rather than a "product of CAPITALISM".
This all started with Mao. Since China had no real proletariat, he did away with proles as a revolutionary subject and organized the peasants under the banner of "national liberation" over class struggle. Even the term "white-skinned muh privilege" originates from Mao's China as it was applied to the wealthy who were light-skinned since they weren't working in the fields all day. Western Marxists took note of this and by the 1960s the bulk of them had moved away from class struggle entirely and towards culture. Let's not forget either that Mao hated the idea of building productive forces and thought that communism would come if people's collective will was steered in a specific direction, hence the Cultural Revolution and focus on language and personal conduct.
Chase Foster
I got insulted for being white growing up in a non white neighborhood a lot. I've found calling out white SJWs for being white works wonders. Nothing makes them seethe more than that. The next time and purple haired beast starts talking about what muh privilege just scream out "shut the fuck up you rich white suburban bitch!". Works like a charm.
Yeah im drunk Holla Forums
Tyler Evans
…sooo fuck Mao then right? lmao
Dominic Morris
i mena, sure, its fun taking hte piss out of these liberal shitheads, but at some point, you need to move beyond that too. it seems this is the achilles heel of the right, they never seem to get past that shit-tier 'laughing at libs' kind of politics… its always in relation to what the libs are doing ata ny given moment. hence the 'anti pc' movement on te right, or the 'lock her up'.. as much as you guys hate libs, it seems to be the reason you exist to begin with from all i can gather
Dylan Lopez
Maoism is the true ideological basis of idpol, something which Roo will never acknowledge in a million years.
Connor Gonzalez
Division within the workers benefits the ruling class, therefore, they use race to divide the workers.
Evan Morgan
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Blake Diaz
i honestly am just a shitposting drunklord right now. not even being serious, but i never got what was so special about the guy. if he even did some good things, it seems that his leadership was grossly incompetent to a point where it is hard to defend.
i'd rather defend USSR than Mao, because at least the USSR had a solidly communist period. it seems china when 'capitalist' a hell of a lot faster and were very much willing to work with the imperialist nations. but of course, i'm just a poorly read fag and am talking out of my ass. i just never got some people's obsession with maoism is all.
the man had some good theories, i'll give him that. but then again, so did che, lenin, etc… so its kind of like, ehh, you gotta take them in practice too
Ayden Fisher
It's just the idpol version of Jewish. In the US, porkies are (historically) disproportionately white, so white gets to stand in for bourgeois. In high finance, people are disproportionately Jewish, so everything bad about finance is blamed on the Jews. Notice how in both cases, class consciousness is converted to ethnic rivalry, and that's not a bug, it's a feature.
Joshua Martin
Middle class is part of the proletariat. Read a book next time.
Jack Powell
Read Theodore Allen; white rule and capitalism go hand in hand.
Colton Jackson
We really need more Zizeks and Adolph Reeds to destroy the idpol 'left'. They are scum of scum.
try harder Holla Forums, this is a class reductionist board
This is by far the worst part, these petit-bourgeois psuedo-socialists are often white themselves.
academia replacing bourgeoisie with "whites" is the same exact thing right wingers and libertarians do except they use the term "globalists"
seems like everyone has a different term for the same problem and in the end communists are the only ones who have the right term for the problem: Bourgeoisie.
Oliver Adams
This is the tactic to divide the proletariat; this drives workers away from the left and towards more comforting traditionalist ideologies, it also removes the beneficiaries of "white muh privilege" from participating in far-left causes; unless they so choose to emasculate themselves, and unburden themselves of guilt.
Meanwhile the in-group Left often decides on rash actions which inevitably cannibalize their party and destroy any sense of unit cohesion, or party loyalty in all but the most ardent zealots.
Jack Stewart
China also used deeply triggering and problematic rhetoric to cultivate alliances with Africa. Of course, Chinese generally view blacks as subhumans, but whatever is useful against white imperialist pigs…
Adam Walker
This is why leftism is a joke
Ian Ortiz
But most of the people with the money aren't jews and we need all of them dead user.
Anthony Miller
Why was this guy banned? That seems like a perfectly reasonable post. Intersectionality is killing the left.
Christopher Morris
anyone come across good material debunking Sakai?
Brody Walker
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Brandon Phillips
Mao was only ever good at guerrilla warfare and slogans.
Ross Wolfe wrote a blog about it but I'd like to see a more in-depth debunking.
Hudson Ramirez
That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about.
Anthony Bennett
Yeah, East Asian cultures are notoriously racist, which is something a lot of Maoboos and weeaboos like to deny.
Nathaniel Richardson
Doug Enaa wrote a critique on his old blog. If you google hard enough you'll find it.
Logan Baker
Marxists lel
Benjamin Rivera
Are you sincerely underage or is your "subtle" support of right-wind idpol under the false claim of "class" just making it look like you are?
Kevin Gomez
Not to mention, anti-Zionism morphs into anti-Judaism at this point. No one wants to view Palestine as an anti-colonial/anti-imperialist struggle, but rather wants to dissect "Ashkenazi Jewish identity" and "prove" that Zionism was all a hoax. So what? The Palestinians don't need narcissistic supply, they need actual support in struggle.
Josiah Rivera
The mods sure are triggerhappy today.
Jordan Perry
Yeah plus there's no point in anyone outside Asia calling themselves a "Maoist" anymore.
Bentley Ward
And yet I'm still ban-free. Go figure.
Christian Russell
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Evan Walker
why are black flag posters always garbage?
Robert Martin
protip: opting to completely denounce non-class related struggles is alienating everyone except a specific identity.
Blake Scott
Everyone except the proletariat?
Gavin Adams
Same reason why we talk about "bodies" now.
Ryder Nguyen
based mods readsettlers.org
Carter Williams
WTF is with both the right and "left" idpol in this thread? Ban all idpol, mods. Do your job or resign and go back to Reddit.
Adrian Rogers
Mods are putting their foot down, banning racism forever. u mad?
Oliver Ortiz
Why the fuck was this user banned?
Mods, I demand answers.
Aiden Green
Respond you fucking faggots I know you are reading this. Why did you ban OP, that post is 100% correct. What is this, r/fulltriggerdism?
Matthew James
...
Carter Wright
It's fucked up that OP got banned. I don't even know what rule he broke, he was arguing AGAINST idpol. The mulatto tranny mod crew really want to force a migration to bunkerchan.
Luke Phillips
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Anthony Anderson
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Lucas Long
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Evan Rogers
Yes they fucking do Make excuses for what?
Benjamin Foster
Point to me the exact line in the OP post that makes you think it's a conspiracy. He is deriding the minority "activists" and liberals who buy into idpol.
Anthony Ross
Deflecting much?
Jason Williams
Op litterally dindu nuffin
Grayson Taylor
OP talked about how the media and "left" try to racialise class conflict by equating the bourgeoisie and white people This is exactly what hitler did with the jews, except this time they pick the majority population because they want to preserve the system rather than replace it with fascism.
Jaxon Murphy
Sure. It's obvious.
Christopher Powell
The way I see it, pseudoleftists are trying to sweep racial conflict under the rug, in their attempts to create a "socialist" society with healthy strong borders :^)
Robert Russell
What is the conspiracy theory here? You damn well know that all these fag liberal idpol college kid classes are a mistake that could be very easily corrected by changing the words "white" or "colonial" or "privilege" to "capitalist" and "imperialist" and "bourgeois"
Hudson Gonzalez
Addendum: maybe then these protestors wouldn't be making a fuss on campus and start making fusses outside the homes of bankers instead.
Christopher Wright
Gosh Karen is so cute
Adrian Taylor
Does anyone else smell plebbitor?
Nathaniel Collins
You might feel more at home on reddit then. Noone here is "sweeping racial conflict under the rug". OP is doing the exact opposite of sweeping it under the rug. He is addressing the growing racial tensions in the US and expresses his concerns over how the "left" is equating classes and racial groups, despite them not being causative.
Ryan Hall
That the left is somehow trying to attack the poor innocent "whites".
I smell Holla Forumsack trying to push "white" a victim complex.
Been here from the start. Cry more.
Jaxon Peterson
Not even remotely relevant. I have been here from the first month, dickhead. The fact that you have been posting bullshit here since the start doesnt make you any less of a redditor.
Camden Martin
no they couldn't. they hate "white people" (especially "white men"), and blame all of the world's ills on this imaginary entity. that does not just transform into anticapitalism, as though the two sentiments are identical but with interchangeable lexicons
Aiden Scott
Luckily you're the faggots who brought it up, not me, so fault yourself pseudoleftist.
Cooper Jones
Oh no, no white victim complex here! kek
Wyatt Scott
50 bucks says this guy defending liberal idpol is a vol who is too scared to post with his capcode
Levi Adams
Why was OP banned? This is a reasonable post.
Oliver Gonzalez
Attacking the conspiracy theory that the left is out to get all white people is not defending liberal idpol, it is attacking right-wing idpol.
No, it is a right-wing conspiracy theory.
Tyler Howard
I didnt bring up your time spend here. I just said you would enjoy reddit better than this board.
Piss off.
Logan Sanders
I offered you an easy solution to the accusation of being a plebbitor; refute OP's argument. Your refusal or inability to do so while insisting that all disagreement is bigotry is the hallmark of the sorts who control plebbit.
Julian Howard
so what are you saying? that "get rid of white people" is the same sentiment as "get rid capitalism," just expressed in different words?
Elijah Collins
Stop misrepresenting the arguments ITT. OP's post and the ones that agreed is clearly about how some elements of the "left" is replacing class with race. There is no conspiracy, simply idpolers blatantly expressing racism and blaming whites for the problems of Capitalism.
Tyler Cooper
I prefer anarchist chans.
Refute a wackadoodle nutty ass claim? I'll refute it with my own claim, whites don't even exist, everyone is actually a chink, so how can the left be against white people?
I'm saying that the idea that "the left" as an entity is saying "genocide whites" is fucking absurd.
Adam Foster
Then go to an anarchist chan, cunt.
Nobody said this.
Isaiah King
i never claimed that or anything close to it
Jordan Ross
How the fuck else do you "get rid of whites", deportations?
Nathaniel Reed
You are litterally just pulling shit out of your ass.
Bentley Nelson
This does nothing to explain the actions of idpollers that OP is remarking on.
Jaxson Ortiz
Stop posting with the black flag, liberal.
Christian Cook
I want plebbit to leave
Jack Torres
Excuse me while I link to the post that claimed people want to "get rid of whites"
Now let me link to the post where I explain your options for getting rid of whites and how you're left with essentially genocide and deportation.
"They are an imaginary group of people at best, an extreme minority at worst."
Stop posting on this board pseudo-leftist.
>>>/out/ then
Samuel Evans
Actually that's here
Grayson Reed
He was quoting you mate. You are the one saying that equating whites and capitalists is ok due to correlation when looking at only the ruling class.
Cooper Walker
No I'm not. I'm the one saying nobody is equating all the whites and all the rich. Nobody is doing that. He's the one going "oh so it's okay to just get rid of all the whites" you people have a victim complex.
Adrian Stewart
That's what the OP was posting about you inbred mongoloid dog. Kill yourself ASAP.
Mason Parker
the hell are you even talking about? are you responding to someone else or something?
these are my posts (which was in response to )
Daniel Evans
And I'm saying he's full of shit, the idea that people are pushing some "anti"-"white" agenda is a right wing conspiracy theory.
This. Right here. The left does not want to "get rid of white people" and, how exactly do you think we would go about doing this? The obvious answer is genocide and you deny that, so what, deportations? Is white deportation the new concern?
How can China view blacks as subhuman when they're fucking chinese? they eat frogs and farm millet all day.
Connor Fisher
Sure mate all the idiotic idpol leftists I meet in real life, are in the media and are on the internet are all just a figment of my imagination caused by my right wing persecution complex.
Praise brother Hao.
Carter Gray
Asian idpol is extremely particularist; hierarchy is very important to most Asian rightists. They think Koreans are just as subhuman.
Gabriel White
literally what do you expect us to do
Ethan Allen
Maybe if you used the little bit of brain ya got and read what OP posted, you would know the subject is the people who do push this narrative, which is becoming very prominent, and how we can stop this.
Anti-idpol is pretty much the core element of this board, its the only thing shared between all its users, except for a half dozen idiots.
Xavier Thomas
what is there to stop, they are our political enemies and probably more dangerous than most hard rightists.
liberals get the bullet too
Owen Ortiz
Well im not entirely sure how you are planning to take over the fucking world with ~800 people, most of whom dont have access to weapons. So until then we need to increase our numbers and drive out those who claim to be on our side but are more dangerous than hard rightists, with propaganda.
Nathaniel Garcia
or we could just recruit normies instead of trying to cater to these braindead liberal fucks. a lot of rural types are ripe for the talk
i never said it did. read my posts again or stop replying to me
Tyler Parker
In order to get "normies" to our side, we have to make sure the idpol scum doesnt turn them off from leftist, recruit them, or smudge our name.
The urban population in most countries is still the primary population and revolutionairy force due to sheer numbers and proximity to institutions, which is necessary to take control of a country.
Elijah Rogers
So uhhh… which rule did OP break?
this poster actually thinks that rednecks are on the verge of some kind of successful revolution against USG, by force of arms?
Angel Gomez
Because they have a hierarchical view of race that wouldn't be out of place on Holla Forums. Blacks are viewed as childlike creatures that need the firm hand of Chinese rule.
Owen Russell
lmao, "Hello fellow rednecks"
Hunter Mitchell
mods, why the hell was this a public ban? Did we get /r/socialism idpolers running the place?
Jackson Torres
Yeah, dangerous for the working class movement.
Brayden Davis
It's intentional
Jeremiah Bailey
These are people literally living in the community trying to do outreach.
Adrian Perez
This is only true for liberals and anarkiddies.
Jackson Cruz
not all anarkiddies fam, I'm and black flag posters are always cancer, you gotta mix black with red if you don't wanna be an asshat
Christian Ross
It's a shit book.
Levi Flores
Given that it was released during the 80s it was most likely written by the CIA.
Tyler Edwards
That because your being used by Jews man. You think you are fighting against "capitalists" when really you are being used to take out the White Middle class for Jewish elites/oligarchs. You guys might think you will come to power but you are not going to. Once you fulfilled your purpose for them the Jews will eliminate you
Oliver Cook
If you attack the bourgeoisie you will also attack the jewish oligarchy as well. It's a win-win. Stop being a cuck and become a communist.
Noah Wood
FYI Ashkenazi Jews are considered white.
Kevin Hernandez
I don't care for idpol threads, but OP had a point. I wouldn't have contributed personally, but no need to ban them. Anchoring would have been sufficient.
Matthew Garcia
This book is a fucking meme.
Carson Thompson
I really don't get why he's banned either but I'll keep spreading class-reductionism either way.
Joshua Roberts
They literally consider themselves their own race. I'm not joking. Look it up.
Aiden Mitchell
Reality
Jack Walker
But left-wingers see them as white. They even go so far as to call them "fake Jews".
Gabriel Rivera
Burn Settlers… On a cd.
Luis Flores
WTF, who made a redditor a mod?
Blake Cook
This, what the fuck is up with that? I seriously suspect either a mod was a Holla Forumsfag/redditor who went deep cover to fuck us up or a current one turncoated. Bad bad sign.
Angel Myers
IT'S THE FBI DESTROY YOUR HARD DRIVE
Owen Rodriguez
Mod feedback says he's not banned anymore. I think this might just be a case of a vol being a redditard faggot that needs to go.
Bentley Stewart
They really need to get in this thread and explain it
Benjamin Garcia
I haven't completed it yet, but I sort of see what he's getting from (and why others oppose the conclusions derived from it), even if there are some very broad strokes and not everything is well sourced. However, at this point the book is as much a meme as the opposition to it.
Matthew Hernandez
There are things I unironically like about the book, like its criticism of American leftists who uncritically romanticize the American revolution and Bacons rebellion, the unwillingness to describe slavery and Amerindian genocide as genocide. But overall the thesis is garbage and it's very poorly sourced. It's, like all maoism third worldism, a bastardized idealist deviation from Marxism.
The New Afrikan Black Panther Party has a great critique of it:
"Central to the creation of the Maoist International Movement/“vulgar labor aristocracy” line was J. Sakai’s Settlers, an anti-Marxist analysis of race (which replaces race for class as the principal form of oppression in America). Settlers cites episodes from the extensive history of “white” racial oppression of people of color in America and the relative privileged status that “whites” at all social-economic levels have enjoyed at the expense of peoples of color, and which has allowed even working class and poor whites to betray the interests of their counterparts of color. The main theme of Settlers is “white” racial treachery, betrayal, brutality and privilege that claims to know no class distinction. The conclusion being that these factors combine to create a uniform class of “whiteness” that has no proletarian sector. We contrast Sakai’s narrow work with the broader and exhaustive works of Marxist proletarian intellectual Theodore Allen, particularly his two volume study The Invention of the White Race. Applying a political economic analysis he demonstrates that race and racism were/are created and manipulated by the ruling class as a tool to divide the working class against itself, only to the benefit of the ruling class.
Sakai’s work is geared more to the incitement of visceral reactions to the horrors of the practice of white supremacy and driving home the subjective theme of inherent treacherousness of “whites.” This to the end of inciting people of color to look upon all “whites” as a collective oppressor class and to erase the class lines that exist between and separate ruling class and working class “whites.” Sakai’s non-materialist study readily appeals to the affective mind. Allen’s work by contrast materially examines the methods and history behind the ruling class’s schemes that created race and racism, and incited workers and other strata against each other in the name of racial supremacy and counter-racial narratives which have perpetuated ongoing racial alienation, competition, subordination and so on. This has served to suppress and divert the collective outrage of the overall oppressed masses into channels that have protected and advanced the wealth, power and interests of the ruling class. Allen also examines how the concept of “whiteness” has been used and serves to blind “whites” to the sufferings imposed by “whiteness” on racialized “others” and he further demonstrates that ultimately “whites” do not benefit from racism or the sense of racial privilege and entitlement. Allen’s work is geared more to the materialist mind that is interested in understanding the origins, roots, and purpose of race and racism and how to counter its divisive and often catastrophic impact on oppressed peoples of all colors and especially the proletariat."
oh and WHY THE FUCK WAS OP BANNED
Ethan Gonzalez
Someone's from reddit add I don't think it's the mods
Isaiah Jones
fucking braindead mods. Unban OP
Juan Adams
yeah austin really is redneck central
Brandon Morales
Bans dictate the generally accepted discourse on the board. Nobody likes to be banned in the middle of an argument or a thread. That shit sucks, especially when you have a point.
Samuel Rogers
They did. They just didn't remove the message.
Ryan Jenkins
What the actual fuck? Whoever banned this person needs to be removed from the mod team.
Camden Hill
Can you explain why you reported this post?
Logan Jones
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Andrew Sanchez
Fuck off back to /r/socialism. Or preferably kill yourself