"It is impossible completely to understand Marx’s Capital, and especially its first chapter...

Was he right?

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No.

I don't think so but it really helps to grasp more about it

...

Is not understanding Hegel a meme or is he really that obfuscating?

If anyone has some nice guide to Hegel, I'd like it please, or something to read alongside Hegel. I currently have "HEGEL" by David Lamb.

Don't taint Hegel with your anime faggotry

If you've never read any philosophy before he can be a little difficult, particularly because much of his material is taken from his lecture notes, for students that would have an advanced understanding of the concepts he was talking about. He's not impenetrable though.

F I just made a Hegel thread before I saw this one lol

If you wanna understand Hegel you first must have a hum of what Kant is on about, as Hegel is responding to Kant and some of his critics

Its occassionally good, but not always, keep the critical mind turned on when watching that stuff yeah

I-I thought I was being helpful…

Indeed, comrade, as always.

u need to understand kant to understand hegel and kant is very hard

That being said while it may have been true at the time that Lenin said it there are now many books on how to read Das Kapital.

I'd say his categorical imperative is pretty straight forward. All he's really saying is that ethical standards should be universally applied, that if it'd be harmful for everyone to do something then no one should do it at all.

I mean you need to read the critique of pure reason to understand Hegel's greater Logic

Kant is much more than cathegorical imperative though

In Critique of pure reason he sort of finds a way in between the rationality of Descartes and the empiricism of people like Bacon and Hume. As far as I understand Kant is pretty much the most important philosopher, at least here in Europe. He can sort of be labeled as the inventor of the enlightenment, so very important guy.

If you are inclined to reading I think it would be good to read Kant, just for the sake of itself. Just to be a more well rounded reader of philosophy

not like I have read him myself though lol

he was wrong

I did a class on the Critique in school. He's pretty important. That's an understatement actually. He's gigantic.

Of course Kant influenced Hegel and so on, but he also went the other way too. His ethics and politics as well as his metaphysics was a huge part of Rawls' theories and thus the whole Rawlsian liberal strain of thought.

It's not a mistake to say that you can't really deal with modern Western philosophy without bumping up against Kant in one sense or another.

By contrast, while Hegel is really big, he's mostly big on the continent. You don't see him very much or at all in the British/American streams.
I know because I read next to no Hegel during my degree and its a point of great shame to me now.

Philosophy major I suppose? What did you write about in your thesis?

That's funny, because he didn't understand Hegel.

I'll never understand why Lenin was so obsessed with Hegel's Science of Logic, he actually purged Bolsheviks who preferred Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit over Science of Logic. Maybe I just don't know enough about Hegel, but I thought SoL was kind of a sequel to PoS, not an ideological break/rupture. Some people make a big deal out of the fact that the Western Marxists focused on the Phenomenology, and created a more philosophy-focused Marxism, the Hegelian Marxism of Gramsci, Lukács, the Frankfurt School, Sartre, and the Johnson-Forest Tendency, as opposed to the Soviet Marxism which is supposedly more mechanistic and deterministic in it's materialism because it focused on the Logic. But I don't know enough Hegel, so here's where other better read anons should step in. Either way, I do think it's true that one should understand better understand Hegel in order to better understand Marx, the most sophisticated Idealist philosophy is 100% more insightful then the worst Materialist philosophy.

I should also point out that when I say "purge" I mean he kicked them out of the party, not that he had them killed or something retarded like that. Just pointing this out because some anons are retarded.

WTF I love Lenin now

He was nothing if not ruthlessly polemical.

Yeah, philosophy major. I actually did my thesis on Rawlsian theories of global justice. I argued that the interdependence of states necessitated obligations to consider the implications of actions which affected the ability of states to guarantee basic goods to their citizens. This, in addition to obligations imposed on states by their own citizens (that of formal equality), and by global institutions.

It was essentially me trying to ground basic morality between states from a liberal perspective. It's ironic that only after I finished school do I come to be persuaded that basically everything I thought before was misguided.

bump

If I were to read Hegel, which book should I start with, general background in Plato/Kant as mentioned before withstanding

Wasn't a lot of what Hegel used was concepts from Hermeticism?

The best guide to reading Phenomenology of Spirit is the lecture series by Bernstein.

bernsteintapes.com/hegellist.html

You never stop being a philosopher. You focused on different stuff in college. Time to get into Hegel!

From what I've been told, Capital is an actual philosophical text, rather than economic. To understand the concepts it uses, and the philosophical development it has throughout, you need to understand the dialectic.

You can read it without having the philosophical background, but you will only draw from it purely economic points, instead of the philosophical reasoning behind why he's making those points, and I suppose by that point you're just being told what's what instead of why what's what, so there isn't as much thinking for yourself you can do.

Although I could be wrong, I haven't read Capital and I'm only just starting on Philosophy so I can properly read it. I've been told to read Descartes' Discourse on the Methods, followed by Kant's Prolegomena to any Future Metaphysics and then Hegel's Logic. Should be fun.

Kants definitely important but its really frustrating to read him because

1. it's difficult, and not in an interesting poetic way like hegel, just fucking hard to understand and poorly written even by the standards of many Kantians
2. even tho his theories arent necessarily WORSE than people like Descartes, Hume, etc, he was considered the absolute master of enlightenment philosophy and is still taken as an indisputable genius which just isnt true. He's not important because what he wrote was so incredibly brilliant (not that it wasnt brilliant to some extent) but more because it was extremely innovative for an academia entirely preoccupued with arguing over empiricism vs. rationalism and was able to engage with that argument in a way that they would take seriously as an alternative

This is how most of philosophy goes, it's not that Kant was a genius who created ideas no one had ever thought of, he just voiced them in a way that coincided well with the standards and concerns of the influential academics of his time. Maybe that seems obvious but nearly all philosophy departments are full of people who absolutely worship Kant just because he's the longest section in many philosophy textbooks written by people who worship Kant.

Not saying he isnt important ofc but fuck Hume was more right than him before, and philosophy didnt end after Kant

Very true! Actually I've got The Philosophy of Right here next to me. May as well just dig in!

Bump - can we talk philosophy comrades

Gee, I wonder why people say leftists are elitist.

Good advice and an uplifting message - on an imageboard?

Am I having a stroke?

Bump cuz I found this thread interesting

i don think anyone but Lenin said that in this thread tho, and he was probably wrong, though I'm sure it helps to understand Hegel to understand Marx's framework, in a sense

If you can understand Hegel, you can understand anything.