If slave societies were dominated by a small elite
And feudal societies were dominated by a small elite
And capitalist societies were dominated by a small elite
And my local anarchist commune is dominated by a small elite…
AND
Marxist Leninist societies were dominated by a small elite..
How will communism without a small elite EVER become a true reality?
Chinese divine bureaucracy is the only way.
We'll never have a society where everyone is exactly equal. But at least in anarchism leaders are chosen based on merit and can be disempowered at any time.
By overcoming the class contradictions that enable elites in the first place fam
Like fam, you don't have "communism with a small elite" because communism is the historical process that overcomes class divisions based on new developments in productions, not a set of fixed policies, platforms and ideas that may or may not require a hierarchy to enforce it.
Based gorilla poster why do you always just post a shitty OP then leave?
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okay sounds like bunk whatever lmao
this. Marx wasn't bullshitting when he said "Communism is inevitable". As machines get more and more advanced and Americans start losing more and more jobs, a classless society draws nearer
you're failing to mention, OP, that slavery, feudalism, and capitalism had increasingly more and more social mobility than the last system. As the lines between classes become weaker and weaker, they become less and less apparent.
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I don't understand private property: the post
Puh-leez
It's not something we included, it is the point of our "ideology". If you think class arrangements are something external to a particular society type called "communism" then you haven't done your required reading and you're simply confused.
Check this simpleton right here
The point of your ideology being wish fulfillment doesn't mean that it will actually fulfill your wishes.
I know it's hard for you to take it, but you're really out of your league, and if you ever actually study Marxism you'll cringe at your early attempts of debunking it.
Kiddo plz
Marxists always beg the question when it comes to marxism.
Thank God we don't need Marx and all that boring studies of class society and its historical developments because we can just go "hierarchies suck and theyre everywhere" and call this theory
Good night spooked cuck
It's true, we don't need Marx to tell us that.
Marx was a fucking dreamer.
To be honest, it's unlikely that we'll completely abolish hierarchy. But that shouldn't stop us from trying.
Yes it should.
Clearly, if hierarchies cannot be abolished, we should instead seek to make the small elite consist of the intelligentsia.
Communism has no classes, there won't be an elite.
P2P computerised communism.
It won't. The universe tends to favor the accumulation of power by the few. The best we can try to do is make sure the elite are benevolent.
Literally Molymeme "I'm right because I've been thinking about it longer than you" tier
The "argument" in this entire thread can be summarized as "communism won't have hierarchy because muh definition says it doesn't" which says absolutely nothing except that communism is nonsense IF it's true that you can't escape hierarchy, which is the actual claim OP is daring to have disproved.
No society, no problem.
Because that has never been done before…
So then you have to start from trying to prove a question.
You can't easily disprove something, but you can try to prove something.
So, can hierarchy ever be eliminated in human societies?
Well, I think to answer that you have to know what causes hierarchies to occur in the first place. Is it because some people are just inherently better than others?
OP didn't disprove anything. He just made a bunch of baseless, contextless, a priori assumptions.
But I'm sure you knew that, since you're so much smarter than everyone.
I didn't say that, learn to read brainlet
At worst he made historical claims that can be disproved
This is the first actual reply I've seen in this thread
Don't write ambiguously and you won't be misunderstood, you stupid asshole.
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Forgot to take off shitposting flag
I lol'd as soon I scrolled down and saw that fucking gorilla. I knew I was in for an amazing thread.
Hierarchies will always form
My fam has stories from their commune days about how they went ancom and 2 guys ending up getting control bc they played everyone.
The best we can do is have the ability to put people in power through merit and action.
They will just invent non-jobs, to preserve class distinction. Like in Britain and elsewhere now. Plenty of people getting paid generous salaries to do jobs that should be done away with. The Middle Class are terrible for this.
Which is why we need to put Skynet in charge.
"That Terminator is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop… ever, until worldwide Communism is achieved."
The solution to the small dominating elite in all of those types of societies is the same.
You have to KILL them.
Fucking lmao - same I fucking looooooooove these gorilla threads
Hey dumbass OP
Where does heirarchy come from ya dumbass???
Think about it for a second, why are those elite - the elite? What are they able to control society, what power do they have that others dont have? What is the source of their power/control?
USE YA FKN BRAIN YA BRAINLETOMUNGO
Guns.
Nah I was just joking before, they have power obviously but what I was getting at is where does this power come from?
Their power comes from the ownership and control of the means of production of their respective society's mode of production.
Simply the Slave master owns slaves - He arranges society to suit his needs, (everyone in this society believes owning slaves is normal) his nature becomes 'human nature'. The Slave master has control over Slave society's private property - which is slaves. He owns the resource which contains labour that makes everything else in the society - the food, the clothes, the weapons, building etc etc
In Feudal society its pretty much the same, the lord owns the land, peasants work it and pay taxes to him. Everyone believes this is just how things are and its normal, The lord owns control of the knights, he sets the laws, he controls the resources and he instructs the monks/priests to continue to tell people that this is normal.
In capitalist society there are capitalists who own the factories/businesses/corporations etc etc they own private property. All the commodities/resources that we need to survive is controlled by a small elite of individuals. It is through them that the decisions in our lives are made. They have the wealth and control over the means of production, and control the organs of state to maintain their rule. Police / CIA, FBI, Military etc
Because this small elite control private property, hierarchy exists. If private property is collectively owned then power is not centralised, everyone is able to contribute to the material decisions that affect their lives.
Weaponized Materialism:
Pre civilization -> slave -> feudal -> capitalist
Strongest muscles -> best swords -> best castles -> nukes
We are FINISHED.
A revolution is consciousness catalyzed by widespread psychedelic use. The nature of power and hierarchy are a theme of almost everyone's trips. People become aware of the ideological traps they've fallen into while tripping on acid of shrooms.
What are you trying to say here?
Weapons are just a tool, they are not the source of power and thus heirarchy
The history of all hitherto existing societies is the history of weapons struggle.
Fair enough I think you at least understand the answer now, just keep posting gorillas - I like that!
This is somewhat true, but people still have to be willing to use the weapons on a perceived "other". You can't deny that people's group identities, their national or religious affiliation is also important. If people will willing to act as HUMANS first then they would never use those weapons against other humans.
You misunderstand. The elite have nukes. They will irradiate the planet out of spite. They won. Game is over.
Will they tho?
If they can't have it no one can
We should dose them with LSD then.
But then the answer isn't communism, the answer is to somehow change the "compositions of their souls" first, so that any system could work
oh nvm
Gorillaposter did nothing wrong tbh
Was Marx a prophet?
How did he know in the 18th century what the next mode of economics is going to be?
Maybe Sorel was right? How would Marx know?