why does Holla Forums distance itself from Leftist social/cultural/moral positions and try to just talk about economics/wages all the time?
It almost feels like some are embarrassed about what what Leftism and communism entail broadly speaking and how the lefts materialist ideology affects people's lives.
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Because I don't really care how people run their own lives? If you want to live in a nuclear family or a free love commune I don't care as long as we are all working together economically.
so what if your neighbors want to practice female genital mutilation on their daughters, or male genital mutilation on their sons? Zizek raised this point about cultural relativism, there are some things that we can ignore and say "it's just their culture, whatever" but other things that aren't black and white and we have to put our culture above theirs.
Let them, I don't want to be ruled by vegans, I won't impose my ethics on anyone else.
It's like AnCap but without private property :^)
Also circumcised pussies are a lot more aesthetically pleasing and a more prude society is something I personally desire.
Because thats all everyone else on the left ever does? I do agree that we need to articulate an anti genital mutilation position, but the danger of engaging with these cultural struggles is that you tend to lose sight of the economic objectives.
You don't do work. Go back to your slum.
Because those are what actually determine your values/culture/norms.
hello abdul
Not really. People working the same job, raised in similar economic conditions could have vastly different values/norms and perpetuate very different cultures.
Not really. Just because your neighbor might throw a swingers' party on the weekends or snort some coke and you're a teetotaller prude doesn't point to "very different" cultures. You just enjoy different pastimes.
The ironic thing is the Left only seems to make progress in the social/cultural sphere it basically has no leverage when it comes to economics anymore. Even self-proclaimed socialist/communist States are actually just crypto-capitalists with a bit more state intervention.
And when the top lefty thinkers like Zizek are asked how to solve certain economic issues and not repeat historical communist blunders in the process they admit they have no answer.
wow really makes me think!!!
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Because we're proper leftists who want to bitch about capitalism first and foremost.
Top wew, have you noticed that traditional culture decays in any place where capitalism starts dominating?
Also philosophical materialism is not what you think.
spooked af
I'm embarrassed for anyone who thinks idpol isn't porky trojan horse psyops.
well, for starters if you're a materialist you should be comfortable with molecular biology, molecular physics, neurobiology etc etc etc and a lot of people on the Left "FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE" but don't like these particular Life Sciences.
wait, so communism isn't to blame for the USSR or DPRK? i'm glad you've had this breakthrough
Why does it always come down to sex for you people? It's pathological
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The sex-example was raised by this poster
I just played off his analogy…
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yea, traditionalists of most stripes critique and dislike capitalism.
Having communism as a goal can create problems itself even if the goal is never fully achieved.
the amish repair their buggies and houses and farm equipment, etc. They have mechanics, of sorts.
To an extent, sure, but what about literally everything else in your life? From the same family I know one kid who graduated valedictorian in high school, got into the best college in the state and generally lives her life as a bleeding heart liberal vegetarian just like both of her parents while her brother scraped through with Cs and Ds and is a Trump-loving redneck gun nut who works for a logging company and drives a 90s F350 that gets 8mpg. Ignoring everything but material wealth when postulating about the origin of one's personal beliefs is missing the forest for the trees.
Fixed. And that's also the reason why any traditionalist who isn't just jumping on the moral bandwagon is opposed to materialism.
It's because the left as a whole overemphasizes culture wars. I think it is valuable that at least one community wants to stay focused on the core of leftist politics rather than get pulled entirely into the periphery.
Sorry no spooks4u, I won't have it
And yet, the people in your anecdote share the same culture and most likely Christian value system. Same coin, different sides.
they're both libs, btw
Because they didn't read Engels.
Wtf are you talking about? Holla Forums is like 20% Lacanian, we hate scientism and new atheism more ferverantly than most online communites out there.
Also you're delusional if you think those dumb naive leebruls aren't a sizeable percentage of people on hbo forums and so on.
Modern liberalism is a lot more right-wing than you think.
So if you noticed that it's fault of the underlying economy which generates such ideology, then why talk about "left's ideology" as if it was the first domino brick? Unless you're not OP
I have a bad feeling you think philosophical materialism is "I like money" and idealism is "I like ideas"
HBD :^)
To be fair classical liberalism was historically left.
True right-wingers say the world went to shit because of the french revolution.
It's pretty retarded to think one can stop the progress of history but whatever.
spook
That's actually extremely disgusting. Is this how females see cut dicks?
looks like a fucking pile of plastic
"Culture" as defined by what? The geographic proximity they grew up in?
Nope. The daughter went for new agey bullshit and the son found a church.
If you dissemble enough, sure.
You knew exactly what I was saying.
Not in the least.
Lacan is idealism, you can't argue out of this
no, you've never spent time on them
Yeah
They both had access to both, they chose differently because they're individuals.
That's my point.
Not what I claimed, turns out most people who vote democrat don't actually have blue hair and gender studies degrees.
Leebruls are not a monolyth and come in all shapes and sizes.
The Musk acolytes are much closer to reganite Gen Xers in the 80s than they are to oldschool SocDem "Liberals" like Sanders, Moore or FDR, Hillary won for a reason.
Hillary won the primaries*
The short answer is that they don't entail these things
Also "materialism" in the sense pertaining to philosophy is the metaphysical position where matter is fundamental to ideas (for instance, that consciousness is a byproduct of the brain's matter in motion, rather than some "entity" swirling in the ether and manipulating/communicating through the human body.) Historical materialism contends that we can study history and society, how they develop over time, and their various crises, by examining the fundamental "matter" of society, meaning the process and factors of production and the social relationships around it, like ownership. Materialism does not mean in this context "you are only what you consume, so consume more" which the colloquial "materialism" means. In fact marx analyzed this phenomenon quite deeply and called it "commodity fetishism."
In any case SJW thought and identity politics in general renege pretty heavily on the theoretical foundations to Marxism. They're so dominant in academia and the media in the first place because these institutions are governed by class forces. They, like the state, make decisions according to the incentives of those ultimately "running" them, meaning the bourgeoisie. So we see more "convenient" thinkers hired over less convenient but more accomplished, qualified, or correct ones, specifically with the understanding they'll spread convenient ideology.
not an argument, my property
So where do wages and economics come into the equation in this situation? I'm failing to see the connection here.
Materialism is not vulgar determinism. Marx never denied human agency. He simply claimed there were material forces behind history as a whole.
So how exactly does that jibe with ?
Material forces are a good way to examine change in the culture and values of a society as a whole, not the culture and values of every individual in every society.
what did the mods mean by this?
but I don't? I do want to focus on some other problems, though: economics and ecology are big things for me. but I also do want to advance the trans people's agenda, etc, I do want us to help refugees and so on (often in a slightly different way).
I'm against the liberal left's way of doing things, but I mostly agree with the core egalitarian ideals they have. they just practice them in a shitty way & many of the actual politicians are complete bourgeoisie shitheads.
I'm very "Zizekian" when it comes to "these issues".
I try to strike a balance by acting IRL in a communist organisation - economics are the focus there - but we do participate in other causes as well, never losing sight of the main struggle. I avoid liberal organisations, however, we can act together sometimes, if there's a small change that would really matter and we both desire it.