What's with this "DSA are liberals" meme?

that's not liberalism

memes

Wow it's like they took a sensible platform and then someone added idpol to the end of every sentence.

They need to elaborate on what they mean by "popular control".

Okay that sounds pretty good actually. What worries me though is that I've heard this rhetoric from european social democrat parties as well. They also call themselves democratic socialists but in practice they're just Third Way neoliberals

This. Only a Holla Forumsyp or the most delusional LARPing retard wouldn't appreciate what the DSA is doing right now.

Nobody said it was.

That's because they were once authentic socialist parties who were brought to the right by the events of the 80s and 90s

DSA is a growing organization increasingly moving toward the left

What's their game plan for implementing their vision? Most people don't know the tremendous effort that was required by original socdems to create their welfare states; Even with a huge revolutionary workers movement behind their backs, it still required decades of seriously skilled diplomatic and political games. I mean social democracy is not just something you can vote for and it will spring into existence

While calling themselves "anti-communist socialists".

The best something like the DSA will do is amass a large amount of left-liberal college students in their "looking for a 'radical' activism venture" phase in fluctuating numbers and consider it a victory when the tides are a little up in membership numbers again.

Extra keks: dsausa.org/hasn_t_socialism_been_discredited_by_the_collapse_of_communism_in_the_ussr_and_eastern_europe and their "Swag Shop" featuring high quantities of idpol with such classics as "dump Trump" t-shirts and "no one is illegal" FSA-starred badges: dsausa.nationbuilder.com/swagshop.

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Oh shut the fuck up. Trump sucks and no one is illegal. Any Socialist should agree with those.

this is from years ago and idk who the audience is

it's ugly as shit but nothing presented is wrong

these aren't bad things

I don't disagree with this at all. The point is that the presentation here will attract one and only one type of person and (mostly) their money, and you know which: the idpol college liberal types we find on r/socialism.

All of those pins are trash, nothing about class struggle, nothing about ending production for profit, seizing MoP or even a bit of anti-imperialism. Instead "Welcome" to forced imported refugees that were made to be into that position because of imperialism. This looks like som Democratic party bullshit with more red.

DSA definitely has trouble attracting people beyond college liberals, but that's true of every radical org in this country.

In fact, the DSA is the only group actually capable of serious outreach into working class communities. They've gotten three city council seats in the past couple months, which is cool, and have a lot of chapters in rural communities.

who cares

if it brings normies to socialism that's a good thing

I'm afraid you have irredeemably shit taste

lo. I'm sure a pin saying "seize the means of production from the bourgeoisie" would attract ordinary workers

The idea that DSA is COINTELPRO or just a liberal club is retarded.

I will say that I think many members are wasting time and resources trying to change the Democrats though they have had some success challenging establishment Dems at the local level. New members need to read more theory and many still have Democrat tier opinions on issues like gun control or whatever but more reading groups are being set up.
Like on the issue of gun control I have seen opinions of DSA members ranging from those think you have no right to bear arms to those who want to form worker militas.

Anyway DSA is certainly not liberal though some members like Eve Peyser who need that card to look cool on Twitter certainly are liberal cancer.

nah

you got a better idea?

A lot of Holla Forums uses "anti-idpol" as cover for their own socially reactionary idpol

As opposed to "proud socialist feminist", "lgbt ally" and "no one is illegal", after all those are the most important issues occupying the minds of people working in shit-tier 9-to-5 jobs.

This is not even half a year old: facebook.com/demsocialists/photos/pb.141692255929599.-2207520000.1481058611./1106333599465455/?type=3&theater.

Marx a "democratic revolutionary"?

Marx having "nothing to do" with the Soviet Union besides giving the groundwork for the leadership that led the successful revolution that established it and many other things? (It's one thing to say that the Soviet Union was unfaithful to Marx's conception of communism, but to completely disassociate him from it like this is just ridiculous and is done purely out of ignorance or to pander.)

Marx defining capitalism as merely a society of a "small group of super-rich" controlling the MoP, not the institution of (private) property and commodity production in and of itself?

If you are not a generic college liberal, yes these are bad things because nobody is going to be interest (they'll actually shun it), and the problem is that these pins are basically the way the DSA advertises itself on the whole outside of just its "Swag Shop" (just saying this in my head fucking hurts).

See, that's the thing. I'm against this lifestylist idea of pins and t-shirts in general, but if you're gonna have them at least be related to socialism, or have at least the majority of them be.

What does that even do, though? All this organizing through liberal democracy and having little circles is worthless if it doesn't have an impact or even animates working people's interests in socialism. If they at least did stuff like the IWW like organize strikes, or the prison strikes they recently did, that would actually be a type of working class action worth supporting the org for, and a type of action that actually harms bourgeois influence and will actually show that the working class can strike.

socialist feminism is women with thunderthighs gangbanging a cosmic space squid?

cool

this is typical american liberals misappropriating a few radical words and images and calling themselves socialists. it's disgusting. look at this garbage "socialist feminism is the future"? embarrassing

Jesus, looking through their page it is full of illiterate liberals who think fucking germany of all places is "democratic socialism"

(cont)
Holy fuck the classcuckery is real
facebook.com/demsocialists/photos/pb.141692255929599.-2207520000.1493833566./1250953848336762/?type=3&theater

Purests are never happy. Push them further left over time

What makes this class cucked? Litteraly Marx theory of labor value. Please elaborate.

I think he refers to the comments

Half a year ago they had 15,000 less members. It was made up of a few students and SPUSA leftovers. They basically followed the line set by the Socialist International and now they supported Melenchon against Hamon. In a few months the group went through a unprecedented growth and they're still trying to adjust.

Probably the comments (indicating the great job the DSA does at making them little more than edgier nostalgic Fordists):

Since most workers are women and of color, yeah they probably are.

what color?

Nice bait, but even if they were, none of the minority workers actually looking for a way out of their plight give a shit about idpol.

b8

No matter how much libshits like you would bitch, workers will always more interested in economic problems than in
Sanders got far on economic focus, Trump won on economic focus, while cancerous liberal faggots promoting sex and race pandering like you will be always stuck at attracting no support aside from college campuses because you're all bourgie shits detached from economic reality.

Back to reddit you autismo.

Calm down and take a deep breath, I'm not middle class nor do I believe race politics should stand above class. I simply pointed out the simple fact all of the radical left seem to be forgetting all the time; that most workers are female and of color.

You didn't argue about the numbers in
>As opposed to "proud socialist feminist", "lgbt ally" and "no one is illegal", after all those are the most important issues occupying the minds of people working in shit-tier 9-to-5 jobs.

In America this is not the case. Black women are 6% if the population. Latino women are like 8%.

People are telling you to fuck off because you think you're mighty clever extrapolating the 52% of the population being female statistic in such an autistic way, and then continuing to run wild with the logic.

Guess they're talking about workers globally?

Don't care what anyone says, they're based.

Friend, your name is displayed.

Of course you'd like them.

Yep, it's me, will. Ask me anything.

Nice idpol :^)

I insisted that we name it Rosa if it's a female, or Tito if it's a male.

No, that's some rando who liked it.

metro.co.uk/2017/03/31/helpless-dog-painted-blue-and-stabbed-with-an-ice-pick-in-sick-animal-abuse-6545107/

The only time women outnumber men is over the age of 65. So most working people are men.

Anyone who says doggo is a fucking faggot. That sounds like something a toddler would say. Only this pussy bitch species would come up with something as retarded as this. Who the fuck put autism in all water on the planet? Why the fuck is "reddit speak" mainstrean and cool now? Why the fuck is this Rated PG-13 / Boring Cuck Father of 2 With His Shirt Tucked In lifestyle now the norm? When is somebody going to put poison in all the hair gel on the planet?

Doggo

don't be an angry pupper you are doing me a concern

ＤＯＧＧＯ

Why did men ever decide that it was a good idea to start gelling their hair? Why the fuck would anyone want a bunch of faggot dudes to start "doing their hair"? Men are fucking disgusting. Stopping trying to make "Beautiful Nu Men" happen. You people are a waste of fucking space. Theres a damn good reason that gay bashing was an international pastime until recently. Stop being fucking faggots and focus on not trying to be a celebrity (you aren't and never will be one, faggot) for 5 fucking seconds and we can have nice things. Faggot.

IMO even if trying to change the Dems is futile (it is) running DSA approved Dem candidates where you can is still worthwhile so that when you finally break ties with the Dems you've got a bunch of people going turncoat with you.

Wow John Oliver's clone army assembled fast.

Kek is fucking retarded too. I'm not a toddler, I'm a fucking adult. I also like to create things instead of following somebody else like a bitch for my entire existance. Try branching out! It's fun! You also might be get some breathing room when you pull your head out of the ass of whoever you are copying today.

Hint: you get a small endorphin boost from feeling "clever" when you say something someone else on the internet claps their hands together like a retarded monkey over. That is why you are a faggot. Now go cure your faggotry, faggot.

extremely accurate post

This post screams self esteem issues tbh

Those 3 faggots will stop saying doggo now because they think I'm cool based on the way I type. They will now start talking shit on how "normie" the word doggo is and pretend like they were always as cool as me. I will cotinue to think they are useless faggots and will use them for whatever I want by arranging words in magical orders.

There you go copycats. Now come up with some better propaganda! I just taught you one of my best tricks!

Do you prefer doggos or cattes

Haha you attacked an anonymous persons character. You must have self esteem issues if you have to try to boost it by putting down "AnoNymOus PosTers" online!

Check mate. Now go read a book a dead white dude wrote about a system that worked in a small village in 1905.

Damn I occupy a lot of space in your head Copycat! I am so powerful!

Self esteem issues confirmed.

Haha back for more. You are projecting your own insecurities here. It gets better Copycat. One day you will have higher self esteem!

Ps. Im in your head. I own your soul right now haha. Your entire life is currently dedicated towards "OwNing" and anonymous internet poster. Enjoy the self esteem - you owned me. Now take that self esteem and make some better propaganda. You guys are pretty bad at that.

Haha mommys basement marxist confurmed hehe! Lol look guys! Look! I said words! I insulted the invisible man! Look at me go guys! Look at how much self esteem I have hehehe!

You have such low self esteem that I made fun of your faggot word and you took time out of your day to "get revenge on me" because you know you will never say that dumb ass shit again.

Checkmate.
Aight later.

Get better. That was too ez.

This is another noticeable tick in the writing style of those with self-esteem issues.

DSA is not a stable organization. They went from sucking Obama's dick, to supporting the YPG and running Socialist candidates at the local level.

They just grew to 20,000 members. Whatever DSA will be is malleable. We need to mold them into an actual organized Marxist Leninist organization and avoid another SPD in America.

Could we analyze how the SPD came to be as it was and attempt to steer the DSA in any way?

user, it's time to let it go

this but without the ML stuff. what ML party in the US isn't a combination of strange cult, run by cops or 4 kids in a garage?

In Sweden in the 70s especially there was a phenomena called the acronym left. The left was big and convinced of the impending revolution. So whenever a communist party felt a little too "bourgoise" or you just didn't like the leader, you just split or joined a newer, smaller, more radical party. These people took this very seriously, but in hindsight they were quite deluded in thinking that their precious party would be "the"party. The elite of these numerous small parties seemed to be more concerned with their own status in the post revolutionary society than the cause itself.

In present day they are viewed as a laughing stock, you should take these peoples experiences as a warning for what happens when you loose sight over what's important

No, but my party truly has the right line!!!
Ignore the big tent. Sectarianism is the only way to remain pure and bring upon the collapse of capitalism!

idk if its been mentioned but the party is basically run by old school CPUSA type democrats-in-commie-clothing

theyre getting ousted by ML, leftcom and trot entryists though

It's not a party and you're referring to the Harrington old guard. They are indeed being ousted out.
But most people who are joining DSA and influencing the internal politics are left libertarians, anarcho-communists, and leftcoms. They are some Trots but they are technically not allowed to be members of both DSA and a "Democratic Centralist organization".
I've never heard of an ML joining DSA yet. They exist mostly on the internet.

two other PSL members and i are part of a DSA organizing committee and we get to ratify whatever bylaws we want, we can toss out the bit about democratic centralism

for clarity i am an ML leaning nondenominational leftist and the official line of the PSL is that actually existing communism is tight

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This is not true. The organizing committee are older members from the left caucus. Nice troll.

no i mean like a local chapter organizing group, we're still planning our first meeting.

Oh, it's simple, if words come out that you're members of a Democratic Centralist organization, national can simply void your status as an actual chapter.
You'll just be another split in the long history of sectarianism.

every chapter can vote on its own bylaws so i imagine we'll eschew the ones that prevent active tankies from joining since there's at least 3 of us

Holla Forums: "I love Trump and hate the fucking subhuman wetbacks. Also bitches need to go back to the kitchen"

Ok

holy shit, it really is the FSA stars. Fucking liberal imperialists.

DSA supports the SDF.

How can trots and their newspapers even compete with that level of marketing?

The SDF is fighting the FSA, so what's your point?

nice digits also this shit is so annoying, the whole credibility of this group is called into question with this autistic focus on "spooky id-pol"

Yes, he supported using democracy as a means to bring about revolution. Try reading him for once.

The SDF has FSA factions in it you mong

That's because they made an effort to splinter off the actual "moderate rebels" from the FSA. They are fighting the remaining FSA terrorists.

You can't expect the entirety of the socialist left to be exactly like leftypol fam

Yeah but they consider themselves the true representatives of the FSA. I'm not the original user but you can support the original idea of the FSA and its groups in the FSA without supporting the moderate beheaders

*and its groups in the SDF

I used to read Jacobin (still do on occasion if linked something good) and they've published some real liberal head-scratchers. From "bomb Syria for the FSA" to "gamergate is hatred of women, Kotaku did nothing wrong."

I'll probably vote DSA candidates in primaries but I have serious doubts about the organization being anything more than idpol-infected socdems. You can't build socialism on the back of every democratic party pet cause.

This one was shocking. However, a socialist magazine in the US is understandably not well budgeted, one can blame that one shoddy editing.

No, they consider the SDF to be a way for Arab militias to cooperate with YPG. YPG thinks the FSA is a cruel joke.

If you're a stupid Trot opportunist.

nah they publish that kind of propaganda too often. their editorial vision is compromised.

Idk, PSL seems pretty decent.

Lol tankies have no future in America. Sorry you joined a cult. Take the good bits and be active outside of that network.

I don't have it but there's a great recent NYC talk at the May Day space where Bhaskar Sunkara and Kshama Sawant talk about the future of left politics. They talk about DSA now and DSA in the future. Bhaskar and Kshama agree while DSA members running as progressive dems are good now, as DSA grows it needs some discipline and eventually Bhaskar says we need to move to some democratic centralist model where DSA candidates are actually accountable to DSA. I think right now the talk might only be on Facebook.

I love dsa but I shy away from the online community. Lots of stupid white liberal white guys on fb/twitter who don't know shit about socialism. If you judge an org from online presence you will almost never like them.

Join DSA irl and shape it.

Sorry on mobile. Meant to reply to OP and excuse white x2 : - )

we're the reason the left will never win guys

Calm down, I'm not a member of the PSL, honestly if I was going to joint any group it'd be the DSA, I'm just not an autistic LARPing sectarian faggot like you

lol that doesn't make sense.
I just believe that anti-capitalism work is best done in an actual socialist organization that is neither socdem or tankie. We need strong theory before we engage in praxis.

We can only produce strong theory through actual political practice.

Then communism has no future in America. There is no communism without tankies, period.

...

Literally the US Democratic Party in red instead of blue.

Many of them are indeed recovering liberals. But besides these cringeworthy setbacks, there are actual socialists, marxists, and leftcoms within the organization.
DSA began to lose its Democratic ways after Occupy. They didn't endorse Obama 2012. By 2014 they were encouraging Bernie Sanders to run for president.
They have now openly criticized Bernie Sanders and internally the left caucus is pushing much more revolutionary language.

Not to mention the fact that Jacobin was founded and ran by the left caucus of DSA.

Gee it's almost like most people don't come to socialism in america from Holla Forums, but from liberalism after seeing its failures.

Socdems everyone.

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The British Labour Party, even under Blair, contained a clause defining itself as socialist (even if they took out the bit about nationalizing the means of production.)
Forget wooly goodwill: What are their actual policy proposals?

I've always disliked "no one is illegal" because it's fundamentally untrue. Violating bad laws is still a crime. No one should be illegal. Hume would have a fit.

Regardless of quantity you really ought to be looking for revolutionary potential. For a variety of structural factors that would take far too long to get into and which I don't fully understand, women have less revolutionary potential than men.

Sometimes the tent is too big. (The continued support for the British Labour party on the left is one indication of what happens when you stretch things too far. communists campaigning for Blair!)

I've never seen someone become a socialist as a result of liberal failure. Not once. Not even myself. (Insofar as I have an ideology, it's Major Depressive Disorder.)
I've seen a reasonable number of "I used to be a socialist, then I realized socialism is basically the Labour/Democrat program and that's bad because it runs against BASIC ECONOMICS"

Rejecting all parties and orgs out of some strange sense of ideological purity is probably the single most ultra/sectarian thing you can do, sectarianism doesn't just refer to contending part lines and vanguards, it can also be purely ideological. Also, if there's one thing I really respect about the PSL it's how intellectually diverse they are, they draw from Lenin, Trotsky, and Mao rather freely, it's something I really respect about Marcy as a theorist too. The only other group I can think of that does that is the Platypus Society.

No, I was saying the FSA groups in the SDF consider themselves the true representatives of the FSA

I could somehow understand people joining PSL, since they actually have half-decent praxis and work very well with others.

But you just defended the platypus society. You are totally disengaged with the realities and needs of society. The Platypus Society is made up of graduate level students whose main goal is to argue all day with other leftists. They believe that the left should be destroyed and restarted from scratch. It's all theoretical masturbation and they do nothing to advance the left and help people's needs. They are simply overeducated circle jerkers who go around starting fights with actual leftist organizations.

I was a liberal. I was upset with the particularism of identity politics of that modern liberals were embracing which is why I became a socialist. I know of many people personally who are extremely disillusioned with the democratic party and are looking for other solutions.

Factually incorrect, Blair specifically got rid of that clause.

No, Blair got rid of
and replaced it with
>The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone, so as to create for each of us the means to realise our true potential and for all of us a community in which power, wealth and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not the few, where the rights we enjoy reflect the duties we owe, and where we live together, freely, in a spirit of solidarity, tolerance and respect

They actually added the word "socialist." (though they stripped out all the policy commitment)

This isn't entirely pointless though, they raise the level of Leftist discourse and actually challenge other Leftists on their ideas in a mostly comradely and good faithed nature (I'll admit sometimes they're cunts). The Left needs things like that just as much as it needs Parties and activists doing organizing and direct action, just because one exists doesn't mean the other can't, you fucking brainlet, this is why the intellectual landscape of the Left is so barren today, and groups like Platypus and the Marxist Humanist Institute are some of the only groups that still focus heavily on theory.

When did anti-intellectualism become the norm for the Left.

Still think they aren't the real deal?

This vague shit sounds like Spengler's definition of socialism

DSA are just liberals trying to be edgy. They cannot be worked with.

Kek, he fell for the meme.

Well yeah, that's the idea. You pretend to appease the left by using the word "socialism", then you appease porky by fucking hyphenating it as "social-ism"
Goddamn just talking about Blair makes me angry. Everything he does is covered in a disgusting grease.

We still basically have segregation in large swathes of the south. I don't think addressing racial issues is a bad thing down here.

Also DSA:

cease your opportunism please

Doubtless some of them think that, which is pretty much meaningless and irrelevant.

It sure as he'll won't hurt