Combat DSA

they're demsocs, which is the same as old fashioned socdem, because socdem now means social liberalism

oh you're that faggot.

Everyone in the DSA hates Chelsea Clinton and Booker. Just look at DSA twitter.

Holy shit that's awesome, how did you develop such incredible praxis?

Bruh, you don't know how many Luxemburgists are in the DSA, at least at my local chapter. I plan to join to move the political window in a socialistic manner soon.

The presidential race is irrelevant for the DSA at this time. Also the easiest way for a small party to get larger in America is to focus on a single state rather than the nation as a whole.

Succdems are literal retards. There is nothing socialist about DSA. They will betray actual socialists if given any power.

Demsoc =/= socdem.

If we can achieve socialism through peaceful democratic means then we should.

Do we, though? Sounds like you're pulling shit out of your ass and ya don't know squat about the DSA

No you strawmanning retard. If they didn't even endorse Clinton this year why the fuck would they ever endorse her autistic daughter? Just admit you're a reaching dipshit.

DSA is nothing but a front for the Democratic Party. The only reason why it has grown is because Israel-loving Bernie Sanders if funding DSA and giving it free publicity.

DSA is not and never will be a vehicle for raising class consciousness, yet alone revolution.

Reform through a Capitalist system is almost impossible at this point. You risk ending up like Social Democrats.

And Democratic Socialism is a redundant term

The DSA old faction endorsed Obama. New DSA wouldn't endorse him obviously

brb starting a newspaper

Kind of mad they don't call themselves socdem but I guess that's what happens when European liberals have been running as "social democrats" for decades and ruining the once stellar brand with austerity policies and imperialist nonsense.

DSA chapters collaborate with the PSL and other explicitly anti-zionist leftist orgs. Stop embarrassing yourself please

DSA wants America to end up like Sweden, at best. In other words, DSA is not anti-capitalist. They are class traitors.

Well shit, I was going to mount a defense of the DSA, but I guess it's all fucked now.

I abandoned the false words of right-deviant scum like Phil Greaves and discovered the profound truths espoused by thst wise and sage true vanguard known as Facebook tankies. Thry have access to the deepest and most arcane secrets of Highly Successful Leftism.

Newspapers are revisionist, the truest and purest realization of socialist principle is to be achieved through internet struggle sessions

nice strawman faggot.

What do you think should be done differently? DSA chapters put bodies on picket lines all the time, for instance

DSA is like the worst kids at any liberal college. They do not and never will represent the left.

sauce or didn't happen.

this has to be the most sadly self-aware post by a rose I've seen on Holla Forums ever

You guys do realize that advocating for gulags and revolution is the fastest way to be turned into an extension of the FBI right? America is extremely classcucked and needs to have its hand held as it moves towards socialism. Stop being utopian fucktards.

DSA worships Bernie Sanders.
Free college and more firefighters is not socialism.

DSA needs to embrace stronger Marxist-Leninist ideals. Sure, don't quote Stalin in America, but for god sakes, talk about Lenin and the successes of the Soviet Union! We need to inspire socialism, not demsux reformism.

Just admit you guys are perpetually salty. You wouldn't join any movement don't pretend it's a purity test thing.

there's actually quite a few blacks and latinos in it, they recently elected a guy to the Atlanta city council who was black

they like him, sure, especially for boosting members, but most DSA members are farther left than bernie

Yeah this isn't idpol though I'm sure

...

bullshit, DSA grew from 2,000 memers into 20,000 members.
Most new members are liberals who rode the Bernie train. They haven't read Das Kapital or State and Revolution. They aren't socialists and they will be used by DSA, a front by the Democrats/FBI to discredit the left.

I think you just played yourself

if this is a typo, it's a great one

I guarantee my local chapter has on average read more theory than you have. Ease up on the smug autofellatio

Good thing they're not calling themselves The Socialist Party of the USA, then, right?

Why does it matter that socialist isn't a dirty word if it's lost all actual meaning?

I dunno but I've got some fucking narcissistic liberals in my own DSA pushing for diversity quotas.

see

It matters because this country is extremely classcucked and the only realistic way to change things is reformism and successfully shifting the Overton window

That's all DSA is. They want to divide white workers from women/blacks/mexicans.

They have some bullshit called progressive stack. They criticize each other if the room is too white. They are not socialists. They are third wave feminists and intersectional liberals.

hey Holla Forums
feel free to stop embarrassing yourself any time

back to r/socialism

Well now I haven't seen any of that shit yet. But the moment I do I'll be sure to direct them to this

seattleweekly.com/news/a-marxist-critiques-identity-politics/

and remind them that the notion of white muh privilege was conceived as something to be overcome for solidarity, not to shut people up and divide.

back to r/physicalremoval or the_donald!

This is objectively true in 2017

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the progressive stack shit, but they're not very intrusive about it.

People dying their hair vibrant colours is honestly the single most retarded modern day trend. In all seriousness I would never date/be friends with someone who did this. It shows you are desperate for attention and want to stand out when you have no worthwhile unique traits.

Why? Lets put aside the question of whether Lenin and the USSR deserve praise, do you think this is an effective tactic for building a mass movement in the United States?

DSA is at its core anti-socialist. The Democratic Party cannot be reformed, and neither can DSA.

That's how this shit always starts, as soon as they gain any real ground they'll get infiltrated and subverted, not by any alphabets or corporate astroturfers, but simply because liberals are children that cannot tolerate different opinions.

I don't really care anyway since the US is a lost cause but don't get your hopes up. Criticizing postmodern politics is suicide for any leftist.

How so?

Without a doubt, discussing Lenin is key to ever having a successful socialist society in the United States.

First of all, not every Liberal that becomes a Social Democrat is someone that would have become an ML or Trot otherwise. Secondly this is literally a good thing, it normalizes the idea of Socialism and allows bugers and normalfags to see Socialism as something other then the Cold War spook they've been brainwashed to see for the last 50 years, from there, once we have a more revitalized Left, and once the Left actually has some general support, once it isn't completely fringe, then you can worry about advocating whatever special flavoe of Socialism you think is so important that you'd rather sabotage the only chance we have of converting normies just because it isn't the exact specific brand of Leftism you subscribe to. You ultraleft autist.

But explain why though

This is LARPing at it's worst tbh.

What's the point of calling something socialist if it's just more liberal bullshit? Bernie Sanders is a zionist War monger. He was the worst person possible to revive socialism in the United States.

All Socialism means under this new definition is a larger police state that cares about women rights.

Socialism is ultimately just liberalism brought to its (intellectually honest) conclusion.

Most people want liberal democracy over m-l states. How about we don't repeat the mistakes of the past

not sure if they ever endorsed Obama tbh

Most people voted for Hillary Clinton. An uneducated liberal mass raised in this capitalist society cannot be trusted yet. We must expand political education.

Clearly the true revolution must begin with the massacre of those who disagree with us, especially those pesky workers and students.

Only in America, where words have no real meaning aside from gut feelings evoked by pop culture stereotypes.

pic related is why we need the DSA (it's real)
shit is so classcucked here anyone to the left of a middle-of-the-road Democrat is considered a gulag-loving devotee of Stalin

Ml is dead faggot

The only reason your trash ideology was popular was because of the backing of the USSR

Dengism is more likely to catch on now

We need to use science to bring Stalin back from the grave so he can gulag the DSA.

pic related is proof that americans are so far gone that the country will need to be nuked

Holy fuck that picture makes me mad and I don't even like Democratic Socialists

Don't oppose them. They're misguided in that they're not alt-post-left Holla Forums shitposters but the overton window is a real thing and they're moving it in our direction.

This. Party is full of Marxists and a lot of people sick of sectarianism. We need to build the left as a whole right now.

People who cry about sectarianism are usually revisionists without a solid theoretical basis. Socialism will never spread within a Bernie Sanders fan club. They will damage the left.

Not surprised tbh.

Sectarianism has it's place, but not when the left as a whole is fucking dead.

The Left is thriving in the United States, the only problem is that Social Democrats are siphoning off potential leftist energy.

Lol how in the fuck. When eve the word "Liberal" has become associated with Socialist, and Socialism is considered bad, you know you're in a shitty position. SOCIAL DEMOCRATS are considered far-left to these bourgies

Words don't mean anything in America. Democrats are called socialists and Republicans are called Hitler.
This is what happens when your country doesn't read.

Name a single way in which the left is fucking thriving in the USA

I was going to accuse op of being a COINTELPRO faggot, but then I realized not even the FBI is this dumb

More and more people are interested in Socialism. It is no longer a dirty word for progressive liberals.

What sucdems and toward where? DSA is Marxist dominated and focused on building the left. Local elections help do that and show someone can beat the dems.

That's why DSA is running Marxist reading groups and trying to grow.

DSA is not a party. Democrats can pretend to be like Bernie Sanders, but they will betray DSA if elected. Bernie Sanders is supposed to represent DSA yet he just flamboyantly supported Israel.

DSA is fundementally a soc dem organization. They will continue to run Democrats and support Democrats. They are literarily lap dogs for capitalists.

DSA is trying to turn into a party and at the local level they ARE running independent DSA candidates. They have given entryism and gone left since the 2000s you faggots.

who would you prefer in the united states, then?

for

DSA has claimed since the 70s that they wante to run candidates and make their own party but their failed strategy never worked.

DSA is a waste of time! We need to grow actual leftists and stop giving succdems so much attention.

The just successfully ran a candidate in Atlanta, and a DSA member is running for municipal gov in Brooklyn currently. They've only just gained the mainpower to make this possible.

Give an example of actual leftists

DSA has been more or less taken over for years. You don't even know anything about the organization. They ARE NOT fucking sucdems anymore.

DSA is winning actual seats on the local level and state level

If I'm not mistaken, they just won one or two seats on the Atlanta City Coucil of all places

You don't need hundreds of thousands of people to take over one small town. DSA has never successfully ran a candidate before. SAlt is the only revisionist organization lately that has had any success.

where?

really scratches the noggin

So the eternal trot reveals himself at last.

Seattle. kshama sawant

He's referring to the city council seat in Seattle.

Holy shit just kill yourself.

It's not really DSA candidate. Just some random guy who joined recently because of muh succdem grandpa Sanders.

I guarantee you that he will vote as a typical Democrat. There will be nothing socialist about his policies or rhetoric once he takes power.

You people are such retarded cunts. Kill yourselves NOW.
DO IT. KILL YOURSELVES
REEEEEEEEEEE

99% sure this guy is literal COINTELPRO. Even the more sectarian orgs are working with DSA with some having members in both.

Now here's your chance, show us your elaborate plan that will bring us world communism.

It's actually against the rules for you to be a member of a Democratic Centralist organization and DSA at the same time.

It is not being strictly enforced now, but it exists to keep Sparts and other ML-extremists from taking over local chapters.

ITT: butthurt Tankies and/or COINTELPRO

This is probably the funniest tankie blog I've ever seen. Good propaganda, would gulag the kulaks/10.

I'm aware. It's a dumb rule, but it isn't enforced like you said.

Sparts are a fucking nightmare tbh, so any measure they need to take, no matter how drastic, is okay in my book. That said, it seems like the DSA has really good relations with the PSL and the WWP.

...

Pretty much. Many wobblies joined DSA.
PSL collaborates with several DSA chapters.

There's a huge amount of anti-Bernie sentiment among them

Calm down, the fact that you're calling tankies "extremists" is already embarrassing, they're just Social Democrats who are also Russophiles, they're harmless.

This. Defending Stalin and denying his mistakes are probably not great for reaching out to the proletariat tbh though

Just join a cult, Martin Luther.

are you talking about tankies in general? because that's a very generous description

They're definitely autistic, and definitely a PR nightmare, but I'm honestly way more suspicious of anyone who thinks the issue with MLs is that they're "too far to the left", no truer words have been spoken then "social democracy with guns".

Social Democrats defend liberal democracy. Tankies are fine with Authoritarian centralism.

two things happen when you are a social democrat, either you go full liberal or farther left. If they can draw a portion of the population that are already liberals and push them to the far left, im ok with that. Doesn't mean i gonna help them, but their existence probably isnt a bad thing.

Hence the "with guns" part.

You can be pulled to the left with the baby steps. Consciousness does not need training wheels.

We can't waste decades on succdem bullshit. We need a full socialist awakening now.

Pretty sure America had guns too.

get the fuck off my board faggot

REEEEEEEEEEEEE

re-write that except make a coherent statment

The "with guns" part is meant to emphasize the authoritarian nature of it. I'm a bit annoyed I have to explain this as people have been using this insult for a really long time.

Yes, but they didn't use those guns to establish a DoTP. Also, Social Democrats, unlike MLs, believe in parliamentary reformism and expressly reject armed struggle, MLs do not, most ML's idea of praxis is basically the "October Road" model. Aside from that, there really isn't all that much dividing them. Or Trots, who believe all the same shit as MLs more or less, but don't like Stalin.

This is the most retarded analysis I have ever read.
Back to r/socialism

this is the nature of succdems, though. it doesn't matter what they say, its their actions that matter and that is usually siding with the status quo and insisting that commies are 'too radical'. there may be some wolfs among the sheep in dsa though.. overton window and shit you know. however, using marxist terminology and doing marxist things are two completely different things is all i'm saying

what's wrong with user's statement?

This! DSA claims to be marxists but they are endorsing Democrats nationwide. They will never form a party and will stop any socialist group from effectively taking power.

I'm not going to shit on Stalin, despite his many shortcomings, as there were particular material circumstances that pushed things in that direction, but user is right.

holy fuck

The fact is that Social Democratic organizations are not socialists. Their members do not really believe that capitalism should be replaced. And the few that do, actively fight against any effective praxis.

Blatantly false.

They are trying to form a party and in the left caucus there is an understanding that a split or complete takeover may be necessary down the road.

I complete understand people not wanting to join DSA, particularly if you're already in an organization, but this is blatant cointelpro.>They will never form a party and will stop any socialist group from effectively taking power.

And yet the DSA currently has a Left Caucus occupied by Marxists who are pushing the DSA further to the revolutionary left every day. The DSA has some of the most effective praxis we could hope for in our current historical moment, you should be glad they even exist tbh

...

Any proof? No. More succdem empty promises.

This is like arguing that I should have been thankful for Hillary Clinton. You guys are worse than CPUSA.

wdhmbt?

then you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the DSA is

DSA is controlled opposition propped by the capitalist class. They do not want liberals being educated by real marxists. That is why DSA is mostly a bunch of new chapters ran by Berniecrats who think socialism is one reform away from coming. Fundamental succdem ideology.

I'd rather have them with DSA than with PSL, Antifa, or other LARPers.

They aren't going to be publishing this shit you stupid faggot. Just don't join if you hate them so much. Or how about you tell us about your oh so great party.

I'm saying the DSA is pushing more people further to the Left then any ML or Trot parties could hope to, the DSA is actively rehabilitating Socialism in a country that is indisputably one of the most singularly right-leaning in the world, a fortress of reaction, I really don't understand what that has to do with Hilary, you post is kind of baffling.

In other words. DSA has not changed. DSA will continue to run Democrats and try to change the Democratic party. They do not believe in revolutionary marxism. They will continue to hurt the left.

Then why do DSA reading groups and DSA members(like Chapo) constantly promote Marxist literature and thinkers?

They are making socialism a meaningless word. Why fight for socialism if it just means more friendly capitalism?

DemSocs cannot be considered comrades. They will betray you and become allies with fascists, just like the SPD.

They aren't running dems and you're continually ignoring people asking for you to tell us about your own great party. You're so blatantly a pig it's not even funny. Fuck off.

MOST DSAers don't read. Listening to a bunch of liberals is as edgy as listening to Colbert. Chapo and Bernie Sanders is not socialist. No mention of Lenin. No mention of even Marx at a deep level. Free medical care and making fun of neoliberals are low hanging fruit.

Socialism is a meaningless word already. DSA is actively educating people on what socialism is through reading groups and other means.

Most leftists in general(including people here) don't read. UNLESS YOU HAVE SOME WELL READ PARTY TO SUGGEST. Both Amber and Matt on Chapo are full blown Marxists that are fairly well read. Fuck off FBI.

Kek tankies are fucking delusional

Not everyone in the DSA is a Harringtonite Keynesian, ever since Occupy most of the younger members are Marxists who like Lenin and Rosa.

This is LARPing of the highest order, almost as embarrassing as when Anarchists say they're sincerely afraid that MLs will kill them or gulag them if they get into power.

Then why the fuck are their members running primary challenges against incumbent Democrats?

This faggot won't even mentioned party or give criticisms that haven't already been countered. I don't know if he is FIB, but he is be pointlessly divisive for an American.

So this is why you're buttblasted.

socialism isn't your personal clubhouse

oink oink

To be fair, you can't really consider yourself a socialist if you aren't familiar with Lenin.

It's called controlled opposition.

You can, but you'd be a pretty bad one. I was reading Lenin even back when I was an anarchist.

Good evidence for why tankies should be kept as far away from the movement as possible.

...

My local DSA did a reading of state and revolution recently so even that is shitty criticism. Though I'd be perfectly ok if Lenin was never mentioned just to keep all the tankies salty.

Millions voted for Bernie Sanders, but no reasonable socialist would support his brand of israeli succdem as worth spreading.

that's great. I always judge the value of content on its edginess level

this thread has to be a psyop

TIL marx and engels were not socialist

Fuck off back to leddit

Suck it up dude, in Burgerstan "we have to listen to the Palestinian people and admit that Netanyahu is not right all of the time" is as radical as it gets on the issue.

congrats you just described the next biggest voting bloc after teh boomers: millennials

It is.

...

i'll take DSA over PSL, ISO, and all the other failed socialist orgs riddled with sectarianism tbh.

people here are right about them shiting the overton window. their membership swells get news stories, cause people to become curious, and soon its "cool" to be socialist again or at least moderately acceptable. its a win-win, it becomes easier to determine who is a dogmatic anti-communist and who really is potentially class conscious if the center can shift from 'dem|repub' to 'sucdem|anti-capitalist'

is bernie a zionist?

Everything is a pysop except me and even then I'm not convinced: The Phil Greaves story

forget it user, its Holla Forums

in addition to this, imagine having thousands of DSA members. this makes the smashes easier to hide in large crowd on mayday and other stuff. the potential for more serious forms of direct action grows with this as well just by having more boots on the ground. idk how you can argue this is a 'bad' thing unless you are some kind of retarded right winger

fuck off back to plebbit

It's "bad" because half the tankies in this thread are just badly disguised Holla Forumsyps buttmad that the left is having any noticeably growth in the west.

So what's the best strategy? Encourage sectarian splits inside DSA? Some faction joins the ISO, another Socialist Alternative, some PSL. Maybe they can form brand new obscure ML cadres.

The Left in the United States might as well be non-existent. Socialism is still a dirty word, that hasn't changed since the "Bernie moment".

back to Holla Forums

This thread was probably made by Holla Forums, braindead tankies or cowardly leftcoms. Either way kill yourselves.

I'm actually a leftcom that's been defending DSA.

DSA is not worth defending. They will eventually be co-opted by the DNC, just like Sanders.

That's good. You're probably one of the better leftcoms on this board, while the other retards are constantly trying to look for anything to shit on. Leftcoms, those who actually read, should join DSA's Left Caucus and push for more reading groups.

Fuck off Holla Forums

Dr. Pavel, I'm CIA.

Too much of Holla Forums spends more time talking about fighting liberals and social democrats than going against people further to the right who are already gaining traction. What kind of idiocy is this? You can't switch everyone from liberal to revolutionary socialist over night. Stop being an autistic LARPing faggot.

I'm a Leftcom and I made this post

wasting time on the fringe far right because they are roughly as irrelevant and fringe as we are is as bad or worse than spending time personally shitting on dumb liberals.

Both are indications that the left is still hesitant, weak and unsure of itself, so we all tend to invent and target enemies and obstacles that seem more surmountable and can give us some short term good feels, because god knows we are in no position to present any serious challenge to the state or system.

Why? They didn't endorse Hillary

Most proles don't read. Most of this board don't read.

Lenin was against the dogmatic interpetation about how and when revolution would occur that many of his crtics on the left had. You talk about Lenin as if his praxis is applicable in every case and is the only way to achieve revolution while ignoring the unique conditions of different areas in the world.

Seriously though fuck La Riva and her cronies, are you so sectarian that you can't vote for the Greens even now that they're officially socialist? I mean geez

he signed one meaningless resolution under peer pressure, lay off him

...

You used the revisionist meme, but I agree with you about sectarianism.