How much longer until we beat Holla Forums?

How much longer until we beat Holla Forums?
I can remember how a few weeks ago the ratio between Holla Forums and Holla Forums was 1:3.5 and it's nearing 1:2 now.

Other urls found in this thread:

libcom.org/files/the marxian concept of capital and the soviet experience.pdf
libcom.org/library/eclipse-re-emergence-communist-movement.
twitter.com/AnonBabble

2 years?

Exponential growth, my man.
A few months if we're lucky.

...

Holla Forums beat themselves by electing a zionist neocon and driving away a third of posters by screaming shill at anyone who doesn't blindly suck Trump's cock.

Never, I hope. If we ever become big I'm out of this shitshole. That or if left communism actually becomes popular on here.

dude right around 2013/14 the internet suddenly exploded into reaction. It was already bad but it got much worse. Trends die.

My own personal belief is that the turmoil around 2008 and the lack of action on the left allowed the right to prosper. In Britain for example, its not particularly that people love the Tories, they just lost all respect for Labour because of Bush/Blair

The thing about the right is, the only look good when they are not in power. Its all very well saying you're the voice of common sense and reason when you don't have to put it into practice.

Trump is a perfect example of this, we are right now witnessing the start of the backlash. His support on Holla Forums is probably half what it was even a month ago. Give it 2 and they'll be actively calling for his impeachment.

What happens then I actually don't know, it may mean they go even further right but a bigger split develops between them and the "cuckservative" maga muh heliocopters types.

Typical left com, you guys don't actually want to spread class consciousness, you just want to jerk off about it in your armchair

then start redpilling people into left communism
you should stop antagonizing anarchos, try and feed them some autonomism or communization

are we really on the same board?
leftypol is a leftcom board
everyone who is not leftcom is sympathetic to leftcoms

It's the cycle of populism, when the populist has actual power and responsibility, they find that the simple solutions they proposed to complex issues are unworkable in the real world. They betray their promises and support sinks.

right wing trend will only get more widespread
it is the reality of neoliberal capitalism that fuels it

"they're taking our jobs!" is what fuels it
and they are really taking them
but the irony is, the only solution in the capitalist framework is to get on their level
to partake in the race to the bottom

closing borders to your bubble will not solve it
if capitalist cannot have immigrant cheap labor, he will outsource production to the source of cheap labor

The poster pretty much addresses every point you make in your post.

TBH I think the leftcoms should be more specific about their brand of leftcommery

I'm Ancom, but I see no reason why I couldn't come to an accord with council communists, we want almost exactly the same things in terms of how society should be structured.

I would say that, I still don't think the state should seized, but if more centralisation were to arise after the abolition of the state and capitalism among the federations I am not particularly opposed that purely on principle, I see no reason to be.

I am an anarchist primarily because I don't believe you can make the capitalist state into a socialist state, I think you need to start bottom up with a whole new organisational structure, which means the total dissolution of the bourgeois state in the first instance.

If after that, the common consensus is to hand power to more centralised councils with re-callable delegates I see absolutely no reason why that should not happen.

If the populous trusts the councils and they have strong mechanisms to oust them I would be happy under such a state

flag drop

We don't want to "raise class consciousness" because we realize that it's the proletariat's own rebellion against capital, not a particular brand of inculcated politics, that can successfully birth in the real communist movement that rests dormant in all workers. 1871, '05, '17 and '56 prove not only that there's no need for shilling utopianistic fantasies to activate the proletariat, but that all notions of instilling model politics into the proletariat are perhaps the biggest thing that keeps it from succeeding every single time, as the real movement becomes substituted by politicians with either their anarchist circles, Leninist vanguards, trade unionist federations, etc. which can then do little more than reside over their doomed-to-crumble capitalistic projects as long as possible.


No. Half of the fun of being here is making fun of narchos (but also Stalinoids, marksuccs, Bookchinites and other social democrats), and just making fun of them has done precisely what you think I should be doing directly: made people here sympathetic to left communism/the ultra-left, and has even gotten many to read its works and seriously become left communists. It couldn't be easier, and yet that's precisely what's worrying me because I want this to last. Where will I go when everyone here stops being a utopian?

must be easy arguing against a strawman

I've read some Bordiga and Dauvé and you fuckers keep calling me a social democrat.

And production (don't forget it!), as impulsed by the drive to exchange and expand, until your capital becomes an automatic subject and growth directs everything instead of production for use.

And again, fuck you: with such a terrible defenses of your ideal social democracy, you're only making left communists seem more reasonable. Why do you have to make it so fucking easy for me? The more you post it, the worse it will get for you.

kek, I thought leftcoms know their theory
what law of value regulates in your theory then?


regulation of the distribution of labor is the regulation of production, you retard

I ask you assholes not to make it easier for me and you keep doing it anyways. Fuck you.

libcom.org/files/the marxian concept of capital and the soviet experience.pdf

stay btfo'd

ok dude, if there was one leftcom text you had to read to 'convince' someone what would it be?

How do you contend with the fact that through the theft of imperialism the west has been able to afford its working population a level of comfort that has entirely numbed them to the realities of the rest of the world?

Where the revolution arises in the third world it will be stamped out, subverted or co-opted by the imperial powers with much greater resources.

You have to understand that most people in europe do not consider themselves to be struggling against capitalism.

They don't know about Reagan and the Contras and Iran.

They don't know about property relations, the value form and wage labour.

How can you expect to unify people in this way? People do not spend their time wondering how the world could be better, they spend their time working and looking after children or themselves. How you are expecting them to just come to what are pretty high filutin conclusions about society all of their own accord? How can you expect to preach the word without telling it?

I can understand why you would feel like current activism and previous revolutionary movements have been lacking, they point is to see where they succeeded and develop that, rather than deciding to do nothing at all.

Its over correction. Capitalist society is supposed to have crumbled on its own and yet it hasn't, here we still are a hundred and fifty years later and its developed in ways the original theorists never imagined.

You think you can't change peoples minds with activism but you can if you do it right. I have been on the streets, I have talked to people.

I have been at the scene of direct action where random members of the public have walked out of their regular life to join a protest and then exchanged contact details with the group and become affiliated.

There is a dormant worker in everyone, they need to see the dormant worker in everyone else to come forward.

Historically this has been the case. People rally around movements and Martyrs, leaders arise.

There is a thread about Malcolm X on here, there is a man who worked tirelessly organising as one part of the civil rights struggle, are you to deny the achievements he made?

What exactly do you mean by wait for the revolution anyhow? If everyone is waiting for everybody else, then nobody will start, when DO you get out the chair? At what point?

I mean what are you really suggesting? Some kind of anti ideology spontaneous mass epiphany? That somehow the population will become suddenly unanimous in its political affiliations and decide on the same course of action at the same time with the same goals and managed to carry that out?

And I'm the utopian?

you fuckers are a laugh

Please stop.


I don't want to convince anyone, but: libcom.org/library/eclipse-re-emergence-communist-movement.


You're citing a bunch of direct, violent complications workers will face as if the bourgeoisie didn't face similar complications either, and I don't have a clear-cut answer for you at all, and there never will be one. I have no business with making recipees for the cook shops of the future.


No, all it takes is the success of the few, followed its emancipation into the many.


The real communist movement awakens in response to the class struggle. It is, as Marx would say, a "real abstraction", and the existence of proletariat as revolutionary subject lies precisely in this fact: that it comes to realize its conditions of existence as the so-called negative" to capitalism. This cannot be substituted by something separate from it. The workers themselves must manifest change.

Could you unpack that a little?


Nechayev please

>No, all it takes is the success of the few, followed its emancipation into the many.

In order for the few to be successful, they must be active.

I mean, you've basically said what I've said


But you are expecting it to happen without the workers first coming forward?

please…

Spooky. Workers awaken to succdem reforms and other bullshit absent a communist movement. Uprisings may be spontaneous but communism is not, funnily enough, and that was acknowledged by Marx himself.
Shameful.

I'm being beyond clear here: the proletariat will, just like the bourgeoisie before it, face violent opposition to its projects.

That's paraphrased Marx, not Nechayev.

Yes, the proletariat.


In saying it begins with the sucess of the few, the agreement of the many is not implied at all. Many will disagree, and yet they will all be swept under the force of change nonetheless. The bourgeoisie also did not operate in international tandem with its own goals, and yet it succeeded in building its own distinct mode of production that succeeded feudalism, and just like this the only distinct mode of production that can succeed capitalism will be what we have come to call "socialism".

Most of your spam should be addressed in the text I posted above, which I'll post here again anyways: libcom.org/library/eclipse-re-emergence-communist-movement.


Laughable.

Laughable again.

Fucking hell, stop burying yourself.

Private property for Marx was never this false dichotomy between individual and state. The important feature is always exclusivity: as long as there is an instance restricting free access to the means of production for value production, private property exists. It doesn't matter whether that instance is an individual, a state, a corporation or a cooperative. As long as commodity production continues, you have capitalism and nothing else. You reproduce wage labour as a consequence of reproducing capital as an automatic subject. The entire notion of "state socialism" already being ridiculous enough, the generic existence of measuring the USSR as economy and on notions of productivity, entirely regulated by this automatic subject, shows it more than enough. You had a very nice social democracy, and little more, especially once growth started to demand increased decentralization and the emergence of black markets started to compete with it.

wtf im a leftcom now

you leftcoms are repeating yourselves like some bunch of parrots

read my screencap again retard and comment on each point that begins with "if this were true"

again, should we allow unrestricted access to the nuclear power plants in socialism?

Right, so how does that change the fact of first world world material comfort and the fact that people here are neither armed nor violent nor have the inclination to be either?


And yet it echoes a nihilism you apparently do not share. I would suggest if you open a cook shop, you have a recipe, in fact it should probably be one of the first things you do.

Right but nowhere did I say it required agreement, what I said was that it requires activists to first be succesfull.


Point me to where I said the opposite?


Not true. The bourgeoisie of europe and the US most certainly does this.. what is imperialism?


After a series of brutal revolutions and LOTS of activism and agitation….


I can't answer you point by point but heres a wall of text I didn't even write and am not even going to explain how its relevant.

…k

but it's all Holla Forumsacks migrating over to crash our board, look at the threads

There are ex polacks who always post here admitting that they were BTFO and then came over to our side.

First them come to crash

Then they hear the word

Then they spread the word

Also as Trump shows, inflating your stats and airtime with controversy is a sure fire way to get your popularity up

also, don't talk to me about black markets
if you can't provide reliable statistics then all you have is speculation

Hopefully never.
The only way to beat Holla Forums would be for this place to turn into an off-topic chatroom á la Holla Forums or Holla Forums.

The bordiga fags can fuck right off, but the other leftcoms are ok if still autistic like most of the board.

Leftcoms need to be banned.

hi COINTELPRO
leftcoms are definitely cunts, but they're the most well read on the board and a huge asset in preventing this board from devolving into a idpol socdem circlejerk

No, they just derail threads in their own autistic way. If anyone is a fed, it's leftcoms who deride any effort to do anything ever.

The only acceptable way to beat Holla Forums would be if their IP count were to fall. And haven't we been hovering around the 900-1000 rate for a while now?

No, we need to grow. Not by another plebbit exodus (god forbid) but if we want real political influence in the world it helps to have numbers.

I don't care as long as the place doesn't get more retarded.

This. He might have actually been better off losing tbqh. As shit as he is, he's also way too incompetent to be an effective authoritarian, and people seem to be waking up to that fact now. If he had lost or whatever, you'd have people going on for years about how amazing a Trump presidency would have been, and how he could have been the man to single-handily save America, ect.

As awful as he is, at least now they have to own him, and so far, they're doing a pretty poor job. I am genuinely concerned about his warmongering and anti-science stances though; only the most brainwashed of headbangers could not see how dangerous this is.

We were hovering around 850 or so just a short while ago and we were a lot smaller before the cat girl drama.

We were stuck at 1000 at one point before that, we hit 1300 when Trump bombed Syria.

Yeah, but those were brief.

A month ago we had over 1k users and Holla Forums had 5k, the whole site is shrinking.

Is it possible to be a leftists and a nationalist. I'm not falling for the open borders meme but I hate how leftists are so adamant about something that clearly doesn't work

Twas the hack methinks.

On one hand, it's fun to watch it happen when we knew it would happen right from the start.
On the other, it's pretty scary and sad how they're one of the first people to actually catch up to Trump being a spineless puppet of the neoliberal/neocon establishment and complain. If they ditch him fast enough, this may not end up as disastrous for them as we'd have hoped.

I'm pretty sure it was too late for them the moment he was elected.

Best case scenario the majority of 4chan hates Holla Forums forever and shitposts them off their boards. On Holla Forums we're just going to have to focus on growing in the long term because the site is already overrun with Holla Forums.

No? Literally why would you give a shit about your 'nation', you have nothing in common with the people who run it.

this, most people with a brain on the far left could see Bernie would drop out and endorse Hillary, and if Trump won he'd just be another neocon dressing tax cuts for the rich up in new rhetoric.

but it is pretty scary when Holla Forums of all groups are wiser to this dynamic than the general populace. nearly all the normies either think he's literally Hitler and Definitely Not Like Obama, Hillary or Bush, or that he's Making America Great Again.

Bullshit. Acting superior does not make you well read.

Circlejerk bit is right though, but then you could say the same about the Nazi posters so it isn't really a reedming feature more just a consequence of diversity.

Why are you still posting but not addressing my points do nothing man?

Why do left-coms always speak as if everyone on this board is in some separate observer group who can only set back and wait for the proletariat to develop class consciousness. Not everyone here is a student or a neet, I work a blue-collar job and I talk to my compatriots about our shared class position and how it can be transcended.

Why would you discourage me from doing this? How are your leftcom councils spontaneously (read magically) going to spring into existence without workers discussing their shared class position?

Many people here are members of the proletariat and them raising class consciousness is what leads to your vaunted workers councils. Even most leftcom thinkers would encourage workers discussing their position in the class structure. The leftcoms on this board are a special breed of retard who discourage useful types of activism based on pure dogmatism and smugness.

Goddamn, that is the most hipster thing I have ever read.

Autism. Also they're afraid of "vanguards".

The hell are you talking about? It was never like a Sam Hyde style "lel, it was just an ironic joke all along, guys" situation that you claim. Holla Forums shilled for him and believed everything he said from the very start. Chances are, they're going to keep shilling for him until next year.

Speaking of communization, does anyone have a link to the archived communization thread?

the one with the ancom OP posting a Dauvé quote?

Fucking never, I hope.

It's not that Holla Forums is growing, but 8/pol/ is collapsing due to the incompetence of retards like Imcoonpfy
Also if you really support growth for the sake of growth, even at the expense of already low quality, then please follow the instructions from pic related

8 chan is collapsing because it's rotten with polcucks they talk about nothing but sjws

No, Holla Forums is collapsing due to technical issues. It has been getting progressively worse since Josh's faggotry.

That looks very utopian too.

No, 8 chan is collapsing because its shitty userbase produces nothing but threads complaining about people with dyed hair

Holla Forums is up for me 95% of the time, like the above poster said I almost don't wanna come here anymore because every board is infested with Holla Forumscancer. Even just talking about a cartoon is filled with complaining about jews and fun or secret alt-right messages hidden by closet redpilled creators. They're fucking insane, I just wanna talk about a cartoon.

tbh this is probably part of it.
Ive seen people on Holla Forums bitch religiously that the reason windows 8 sucks is because of social fun. Im dead fucking serious.

Not long if their mods continue destroying the board. Their ban log is filled with bans for criticizing Trump and his family.


Basically this. Pol started dying when it became evident it was to be a GOP pro-Trump propaganda cult. It's unreal. I've never seen the Pol mods demand unquestionable worship for any person before.

Dude, its been terrible since like Fall 2015. Remember when the front page wouldn't update at all? Holla Forums lost most of the users gained from the 2014 exodus by being the worst managed site of all time.

this has to be satire

He's right though, getting too big is always a suicide in the terms of quality

Literally all of those things can be components of socialism. Communism, that's different. God I hate GMIL

XAX

I have an uncle who was literally kidnapped and tortured by the mexican government for being a communist

And this lack of action, we should note, was exacerbated around 2011 (Occupy and all) by the infiltration of deviationist elements that have only furthered people even more from the left, as people have passed to associate us with identitarian shit and outright degenerates. That's why not only is it fundamental to get involved in actual political mass work, but also to denounce the worst of these idpol shits

Yeah, denounce them with fucking violence.

Exactly - any movement promising change while not empowering the proletarian masses, is bound to end up serving the ruling class. We even see this happening on a lesser scale as Holla Forums becomes essentially an outlet for cointelpro psyops (last pic related)