I like the idea of socialism but the fact that you guys hero worship certain historical figures and consider some fat...

I like the idea of socialism but the fact that you guys hero worship certain historical figures and consider some fat 500yr tomes as the Bible really turns me off.

Why can't you be like modernist socialists or whatever

Explain your issue clearly or fuck off.

Well we got Zizek, Noam, and …

Tho, Noam is a fossil by this point, a lot of his friends are now people in history books lol.

Hero worship is for the petty proles who feel that nationalistic spirit. Educated (lol) socialists are definitely modern in our application of the system. Our socialism is more or less cosmic, rather than rooted in some old dead dude whose identity we might rally around.

Not really
Some of them have stuff that makes you good at arguing on the internet.

None of the ideas being pushed as "new" in any way today are actually new. Read the books and then you'll understand why.

Do you really think we read books just to worship them and that we're disconnected with the modern world? We're here because the modern world made us question its principles and look to the past for answers to what the future can be.

I fail to understand the issue you have.
What's wrong with X historical figure? What's wrong with old books?
You probably think that the progress of capitalism has ousted those old books and persons or that their theories have been proven wrong but if we still discuss them today it means their tough is still relevant.

You do know that modern socialist and communist theory is relatively young, right? The 19th century wasn't that long ago. And it's not like we haven't been expanding on it since then.

Look up Richard Wolff.

That's dumb logic, Holla Forums discusses 17th century race science, doesn't mean it's relevant

What I mean you guys see some problem with modern society, and immediately go, "well what did Marx/Lenin/etc say about it"
I don't like that

Funny you say that, in another thread we're discussing how the entire modern culture seems to live off the past. More so than most in our case, seeing as the left is on life support.

Anyway, rebooting socialism would be a nice idea yeah, but a mammoth task. There are entiely too many bad habits and spooks that attached themselves to the left after Leninism.

I'd be humbly glad to write down everything needed to create the Newest Left, from theory to practice, but I don't think many people would follow me. Such is life in the zone.

socialism is modernist tho

But Leninism is the socialism I DON'T want. I'd rather than have liberal capitalism

Well, no thinker exists in a vacuum and their work will always take from someone that was before, if you want to understand Zizek (Our current memesmith) you have to read Badiou, because Zizek takes a lot from him, yes you can read Zizek without reading Badious on the first place but you will miss a more elaborated thesis and this comparasion can go on back to aristoteles.


You're an anarchist? Don't worry having no theory doesn't exclude you from being an anarchist

I guess I should have specified "after and during Leninism". The man was a genius and his writing is brilliant, but his government kind of set the stage for the worldwide mess that would come.

I'm not an anarchist

Also fuck you mods there wasn't a reason to anchor this thread

Zizek, Chomsky, Bookchin, Richard Wolff, Kevin Carson, David Graeber and Yanis Varoufakis are all relatively recent Left theorists.

Un anchored now

So if you're not an anarchist nor a leninist what flavor of leftism are you?

Die in a fire, you stupid illiterate. Probably a stuckup teen who thinks Marx's "dialectical science" is the only viable model for understanding history and that everyone else is his intellectual inferior because he just knows everything.
hint: Marx called Proudhon a scientific socialist

It's a shitty thread.

No flavor, I want democratic socialism or something. Just a better organized society where people are put before profit, inefficiencies of capitalism are done away with and everyone is well fed and happy

Pic related


Damn man, please read wage labor and capital or watch a Zizek conference, you're still too new to this

I never want to grow old

...

...

Why live?

Yes, the proletariat will learn organic immortality has been achieved, only as a slow realization somewhere around Bill Gates 150th birthday.

sage because off-topic, and also the topic is boring.

Why would they hide its existence? Let the proles see their immortal capitapriest caste has mastered death itself, it will put them in their place. All they have to keep to themselves is the meds themselves. Materialism and all that.

They aren't yet confident enough in their power. There is a good chance Americans and other westerners are ready to become temporarily embarrassed immortals, but there are still plenty of religious people in the world, and there is a good chance they will flip their shit if they learned people have attained undying bodies trough technology.
Porky needs to certain when it comes to immortality, they only get one chance to live for ever. I would not be surprised if they already have the key to stop aging, probably discovered in some Hong Kong lab that does illegal human experiments on boat refugees.
But the Porky still fear the humans might rise up if they realize just how fucked up things are. More robots and drones and shit need to be developed before the revelation of our new Gods.

READ BOOKCHIN THEN

Modernism is literally just as old as Karl Marx and his philosophy, as well as all anarchist literature relevant today.

richard wolff is a lightweight

TBQH I feel the same way. It's so fucking rigid and restrictive.
Those cunts should just fuck off to >>>/marx/

I'm not saying I'm a fan of it (nor am I particularly bothered by it tbh), but what specifically annoys you about it? Is it because you belive people think X is true because Marx/Lenin/etc. said so? Or is it because theu are "outdated"?

I think OP has a good point. We shouldn't cling onto 19th century dogma's too much.

I can't wait for postpostmodernity.

But user… It has already begun!

Jesus, Mary and Joseph, I wonder what will come after it!

Memes.

I don't know how things are in other countries, but I live in Burgerland where politics haven't advanced much further than the 17th and 18th centuries. People still worship the cabal of porkies that "founded" this country and worship our constitution, a hastily slapped together mix of early post-colonial realpolitik with a smattering of rough early liberal ideology as if it was some kind of holy document.

Given these circumstances, taking on an ideology from the 19th and 20th centuries puts me a good century or two ahead of my countrymen ideologically.

While Europeans are a bit further ahead in that regard, they never came across to me as that much further along.

I take it memes will last until the end of human civilization.

what the fuck are you talking about