Class Consciousness from Across the Ailse

Hey Holla Forums, quick story for you guys with a follow-up question. I know you guys don't like Holla Forums coming and shitting up your board, but this isn't bait so hopefully it's fine.

I'm in a chat group with a bunch of various nationalists in my area. When it started off it was awesome. Everyone was on great terms with eachother, everybody agreed on stuff and helped eachother out, etc.. But not too long ago, some big name guy from up north came down abd basically assumed the position of leadership. He's got connections, and is good at organizing, but his opinions are much different than the opinions of most of the group members. Yet he forces his opinions down the throats of others.

Just recently, he got into a spat with one of our long-time members about paying for tickets to an event. Essentially went like this:

There was a bit more after that, but that's the initial premise of the conversation. My question to you Holla Forums is what your opinion is on "traditionalist authoritarians" (best term I can think of as an umbrella term) that are becoming more and more class canscious (besidesthe fact that you think they're spooked). Have there been essays or case studies from the left on this phenomenon. Are fascists and Nazis taking the platform of class-based politics from the left, and how would you respond if leftist organizations became more and more about idpol while "right-wing" ones became the platform of the working-class. There's already a resent for the rich on this side of the aisle. I'm not here to agitate, but rather to promote civil discussion on the matter of class between our two political groups. I would post something like this on 8/pol/, but the mods are cucked beyond measure and only allow happening threads or threads about 123456789D chess (aka mental gymnastics of Trumpites in denail).

Pic semi-related.

Other urls found in this thread:

counter-currents.com/2013/06/alexander-dugin-on-white-nationalism/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Honestly I'm fine with civic nationalism as long as it stays strictly civic since I'm a nigger and I'd rather not be sent to Africa

I'm also not an dogmatist, I'll support any group that has established socialist ideas. Sectarianism is simply proof that there isn't a strong left

They know deep down that Capitalism has failed, they just don't know who to blame or how to move on. Right-wing Fascist groups co-opt Leftist rhetoric combined with racism and xenophobia to astounding success, however history has shown that these groups perpetuate Capitalism when they get into power.

What we need to do is teach them that they have more in common with a gay or black co-worker than a white businessman, and that dividing on race lines will get them nowhere. Their anger is in the right place, they just blame the wrong people.

Tbh I think Donald will be the death of support for trickle down for the working class in the US, if Republicans want to survive, Asserism is very much a viable means of doing so, there's nothing inherently contradictory about being a class nationalist

Left or right, most of the poor are class-conscious. It's just that their anger is directed at some boogeyman, usually satan or brown people, rather then class interest. Usually, they'll conflate wealth with their boogeyman (Jews, elitists, etc) The problem is, porky is very good at creating in-fighting because it protects his profit.

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You fool me once and now we are taking your most precious national state. You should feel bad and thats why we are doing it.

Are you familiar at all with Dugin's idea of a Sacred Front? Essentially a cooperation between the left and right wing on common grounds against an enemy that they call by different names, but is essentially the same entity. He says the two sides can be united under an undogmatic revolutionary front. Here, this article does a pretty brief explanation of this concept: counter-currents.com/2013/06/alexander-dugin-on-white-nationalism/

The fact that Richard Wolff and Richard Spencer agree on the destructive nature of capitalism is pretty telling of what the future for the US economic platform will be. I would be pretty hard-pressed to find a younger person from either side of the political spectrum in the US who supports complete capitalism.

Oops, didn't realize I had a flag on.

You're going to need to explain you and your friends' views some more?

For example, are you actually socialists or just socdems? Are you guys racists and/or "race realists"? Are you internationalists? Are you pro-police?


No. Fascists have always appropriated the language of class politics, and then proceeded to entrench the power of capital once in office. Trump is a good current example.

Tfw my dream job is to torture nationalist cheka style.

There are too many varying ideologies to really put them into one category. It varied from fourth positionists to national syndicalists.
Nobody in there supports any form of democracy as far as I'm aware of. Yes, there is a racial aspect to it, and most of them are nationalists. No real opinion ok the police. Good when they help, bad when they don't. However, support for the US Government itself is non-existent, as it's seen as a tool of large corporations.
Except much of the right saw Trump only as a stepping stone, and many have abandoned him because of his newly crafted interventionalist policy against Assad. As it stands, the "right" at the moment is pretty anti-war.

I have an idea of what you're asking here in general. In your sense of the phrase, we are not class conscious. However, I'm wondering if there is enough common ground to incite cooperation between the two sides. Spending all our resources fighting each other at these events all day is not going to cause any issues for what you refer to as the bourgeoisie. If common ground exists, even if it's small, should we not at least consider cooperation? It's probably impossible because of how deep the line cuts across and all the bloody conflicts of the past between our two groups, but since I rarely ever see this discussed I thought it should at least be brought up.

Was going to ask why you were using an ansyn flag.

Just watch how quickly Porky starts calling us "tools of the Jews", even though A) most Jews are not rich, B) most porkies are not Jewish, and C) how anti-leftist Jewish porkies have been.
I'm half-Jewish and am not even close to being a porky
Then you'll promptly turn against us and be mindless drones of capital saving its ass and using you to wipe it. It happened once, it's happening again.

What do we actually think of George Soros? Gulag is too good for him. The misery he caused via the Asian Financial Crisis and his conspiratorial undermining of the USSR along with everything else have earned him the wall.

Half of the far-right in the US is made up of ultra-bootlicking libertarians. Maybe this is feasible in other countries, but burger right-wingers are too retarded.


The Fascist tendency to kowtow to the ruling class goes a lot deeper then their recent support of Trump. As a $trasserist I assume you are aware of what happened to your movements namesake on the night of long knives.

When you ally yourselves with reactionaries who obsessively defend hierarchy and tradition don't be surprised when their anti-capitalist politics are just a smokescreen for their idpol. Tbh what I see happening is the anti-capitalist side of the far-right being purged by the libertarian side the same way Gregor $trasser and Rohm were purged by Hitler. Be careful of your allies or history will simply repeat itself. The far-left has its problems but we aren't infested with libertarian bootlickers who will betray us as soon as their idpol demands are met.

Nah, Rednecks would love nothing more than to see Wall Street hanging from the lightposts

Ok so that's already a serious issue in any sort of cooperation. Pretty much all socialists are very pro-democracy, civil liberties, etc. It's just obviously the natural flow from economic democracy. Worker liberation is the point.

That's also a significant problem. Class solidarity is the key, not silly, arbitrary stuff like race. Whites are a minority by 2020, so you'd be useless in a socialist movement when you can't set aside your ideas of nonsensical superiority.

Capitalism is an international system, and thus requires international destruction.

They're not anti-war, so much as isolationist opportunists. Saying they're anti-war is a deliberate attempt by liberals to conflate the fascists with the socialists. The socialist anti-war position is rooted in not wanting innocent brown people to die as well as taking in refugees. The fascist isolationist position is rooted in not giving a fuck about anyone's life unless they're deemed white, and viewing Assad as a quasi-white crusader strongman against barbaric Muslim hordes.

Pretty much.

No. Anyone can join a union, protest/rally, or violent revolution. But don't expect us to deport people, or protect your race from "dying out".

I was using sloppy language, I mean that half of the new "fascist" movement is made up of libertarian types.

Libertarians are closet fascists, btw.

Well of course there will likely be conflict between our two groups afterward. It's only natural. The point I'm trying to get across isn't that we're the same. There are countless differences in ideology, economic policy and views on social issues. Splitting land equally between the two factions could be an approach to avoid civil conflict though, if pulled off correctly.

Consider for a moment how powerful the militaries and police forces of most western nations are. Especially the US in particular. The fascistic/reactionary/$trasserist right is becoming increasingly more and more aware that none of its ideals will ever be realized while the current government is still in power. The left, from what I understand, essentally has the same perspective (unless they're a socdem). A regime change is impossible as long as the radicals spend more time targetting each other than their rulers, and both sides will fade into nothingness. Are you truly content with nothing ever changing at the end of the day, or are you willing to work together with people that you disagree with in order to overthrown the current regime. Without an effort towards real results, this is all just LARPing.


This is a very real threat. I refer to them as the Yellow Menace. Great in numbers, but not in intelligence. AnCaps with a hard-on for Pinochet **(why they worship an authoritarian I will never understand)* and the Enlightenment. There is a very real risk of them drowning out thre factiom of the right I belong to, unless we get the upper-hand somehow. A lot of the "right-wing posturing" that you've neen seeing lately is actually competition between these two units. It's no coincidence that Spencer's speech at Auburn wasn't that much before Ann Coulter's scheduled speech at Berkley. It's competition between the two.

On the issue of betrayal mid-revolution between our two groups, I would propose some relationship within which if one side dies off the other side is also damaged. Not sure exactly what, but with modern technology I'm sure such a thing is possible. A dead man's switch, if you will.

Sounds like you got a taste of the alphabet soup, either that or some narcissist ancap.
I don't think that's really whats happening, but rather you guys are just being manipulated by people playing lip service to the working class. Its funny you posted the image you did, because just look at what happened to him- Hitler stabbed him in the back and and cozied up to big business. The same thing happened with Trump, he played on the anxieties of the working class then turned around started helping Wall Street at the expense of the people who supported him. Even Mussolini described fascism as a fusion of government and corporations- it is against the interests of the working class pretty much by definition.
The far right is also just as obsessed with idpol as the neoliberal "left", just with the boogeymen switched around- there's a reason the term "feminazi" exists, after all. Both of them simply use those issues as a distraction from economics, just look at how Trump blamed immigrants and overseas labor rather than the people who hired those immigrants and sent labor overseas in the first place, and how neoliberals whine about how there aren't enough billionaire minorities instead of wanting to get rid of billionaires altogether.
I think it would be better if you right-wing types ditched the fascism and nationalism and take the sort of approach Tito talks about here, even Holla Forums seems to like him whenever he gets mentioned there.

Of course. There are too many Jews for most of them to be rich. Only if Earth had a much larger economy to there could be millions of rich people.
Yet a surprisingly large portion of them are, despite Jews being a minority. You'd expect 1-2% of porkies to be Jewish, not almost half.

Seems like Holla Forums has gone full lolberg retard since muh God emporer has gotten elected. I've become more of an Asserist in the last 6 months years of wage cucking to pay for things you will never have ownership of tends to change people and anytime I mention anything vauglly class conscious I get accused of being Holla Forums and no one addresses my arguments. Apperently poor white people making a living wage and being able to support a family is a bad thing because muh small business owners might suffer. And Holla Forums accuses Holla Forums of being too obsessed with materialism.

wanting a white boss instead of a kike ceo doesn't make you less of a cuck.

The point is that its absurd to to hate on the ones who aren't rich out of some stupid guilt by association. Its like when the SJWs hate on men just because most CEOs are also men.
You're ignoring the historical reason behind it, just like you do with blacks. For a long time the wealthy white ruling class in Europe only let Jews run the banks for them specifically because of the stereotype that they're with money (even Trump said something along those lines iirc), and some of them got rich as a result of it. There's not a whole lot of social mobility so unsurprisingly many of their descendants are also rich, its the same reason many blacks are poor because they had to start from the bottom only a few generations ago.

Yeah, that's no surprise. Tito is seen as a pretty based leader by many of us on the "right." I would not be opposed to a Titoist system. I still allign myself more with $trasserism, but Tito's approach is appealing as well. Any recommened reading for Titoism?

OP here. Yeah, my situation with 8/pol/ is essentially the same. They've really become almost worse than t_d at this point. It's really only useful now as a board for news and shitposting, and the shitposting has become very stale. I blame the immigration from cuckchan during the HWNDU fiasco that opened the floodgates. I've heard >>>/polk/ is marginally better, and I hang around here for the left-wing perspective though I don't reveal myself as a $trasserist as to avoid looking as though I'm bait-posting.

I see this already. I tried to fight it but the falling back on capitalism on so many of my fellow nationalists is too strong.

We 'strasserites have to cut our losses. No amount of argumentation will persuade them. Politically speaking, the Asserites is a doomed ideology. The far left will get rid of us but also the far right. I settle with the left more for many reasons

1. Actually accepts that capitalism is the establishment
2. Has actual discussions criticizing capitalism

You get neither in the far right. Deep down, I want to purge the libertarians out of existence in the right but our numbers aren't there and will never be there. Otto 'Strasser understood that allying with the communists, you will change the playing field. It is easier to maintain capitalism than it is to establish a global society without private property. It is better to fight for global eradication of private property than to ally yourself with fascists who insist on maintaining private property. The fascists will never fully eradicate capitalism as long as they will uphold private property. It is doomed to fail.

It is better to ally yourself with an enemy than a traitor when you have no ally at all.

>The far-left has its problems but we aren't infested with […] bootlickers who will betray us as soon as their idpol demands are met.
Why was this board created, again?