as this is a leftcom board, I will characterize myself as a state capitalist apologist to avoid pointless semantics arguing I'm a state capitalist in a sense that I believe state should take the organizational role of individual capitalists and take it to its logical conclusion
but the fact is bourgeois state doesn't want to take this role and more so, it prohibits individual corporations to take this role yes, I'm talking about antitrust laws in general and about pathological fear of vertical integration in particular there cannot be any doubt from where does this fear stems from vertical integration is a death of a market
antitrust law enforcers can look past horizontally integrated monopoly, but they will never ignore vertically integrated monopoly, except for a few special cases like oil industry
The Fall of the Bell System was apotheosis of this retardation its aftermath is a disaster costs hiked and after almost two decades of dancing around AT&T inc. managed to collect almost all the Baby Bells only now it is a horizontally integrated monopoly
because of all this I have my doubts that concentration of capital will lead to the world where transnational corporations take the role of the state modern investors often have their shares in competing companies in this bizarre situation common ownership does not lead to integration
it is like SU khozraschyot reform all over again formally commonly owned enterprises still trade and compete for profits as if they were owned by different entities
so accelerationism in this sense will lead to nothing only viable accelerationism is to go full mr Robot financial markets is the weakest link system is chronically unstable, all it needs is a little push
Elijah Miller
bump
Anthony Martin
bump for our friend
Leo Ross
This is not a leftcom board and never will be. I'll make sure of that.
Wyatt Sanders
And how do you intend to do that?
Aiden Morales
oh my god eat shit, more capitalism will not solve anything you complete fucking idiot, more capitalism just means more capitalism if there's nothing to replace it
we need to lay the basis for a new economy, one that transcends markets, money, wage labour. we need to provide a concrete alternative for people to adopt. trying to use the state to bludgeon capitalism into shape doesn't fucking work. capitalism precedes the state, and is much stronger than the state. capitalism won't be destroyed solely by its own contradictions, there also needs to be a new system in utero, ready for people to start using. if that alternative isn't ready, people will just keep returning to capitalism no matter how many times it collapses. there will never be a 'final collapse' while the alternative remains confined to the inarticulate ramblings of philosophers and worse
also, why is your post spaced like song lyrics
Kevin Sanders
By doing nothing whatsoever of course.
Gavin Stewart
Now I'm confused, do I need to get out of my armchair to stop his dastardly plan or can I continue to relax in my armchair and wallow in my smug sense of superiority?
Ryan Sanchez
that's my whole fucking point but accelerationism in a sense of crashing capitalism with no survivors is a viable strategy vanguard should try to set off a chain reaction of defaults by disrupting financial markets also it can be a source of income for the vanguard
vertically integrated corporation is the basis of a new planned economy
Lenin said it better than anyone socialism is nothing other than a state-capitalist monopoly which is transformed to the benefit of all the people
wrong
capitalism can only be destroyed by its own contradictions
there are some prototypes of such system already in place Enterprise Resource Planning systems will be the basis
for better reading comprehension
Dylan Stewart
The right answer is always whatever allows you to stay in your armchair. This is the key to unlocking all leftcom theory.
Nolan Ross
This is not a leftcoms board. Both leftcoms and OP are similarly retarded tho
Andrew Sullivan
and what sort of special snowflake are you?
Benjamin Robinson
jesus, i'm starting to understand why we get accused of being dogmatic. you're like a fucking parrot
except for the part where it's never actually worked, and a crashed capitalism is just a capitalism that's destroyed enough of itself that it can restart the accumulation process by rebuilding what's been destroyed. or do all of your history books stop before ww2 ended?
spare me you fuckhead
no, as we saw from the USSR, the vertically integrated corporation is the basis of a capitalist state. they fucking strangled all serious attempts at a planned economy the minute those attempts interfered with their little industrial fiefdoms
the capitalist mode of production necessarily precedes the capitalist state you fucking idiot. or has your blind obedience to diamat led you to reject actual fucking materialism?
polly wanna cracker, you idiot fucking parrot? capitalism has had contradictions. lots of them. it has broken down and reformed. you're not killing it until you can organise the global economy entirely without production for exchange
literally the only remotely correct thing you've said so far. the task needs to be expanding and generalising these systems. integrating them together to allow us to switch off the market entirely. if you're so wedded to your precious fucking vanguard, get them on that so they can do something actually useful. start with the cybernetics thread if you want to get something actually useful done for once in your worthless tankie life
combined with your retarded opinions it makes me think you might legitimately have an intellectual disability
it fucking should be. beats trying to talk tankies and bookchinites out of their retardation and into something actually useful
Bentley Thomas
Just a socialist without adjectives.
Tankies make some good shitposts and bookchinites are infinetely more useful than leftcoms in the real world.
Isaiah Rogers
there isn't a single thing tankies do well, even shitpost the left has put up with those idiots for far too long and bookchinites? what the fuck do they do in real life? if you credit the kurdish nationalist uprising to them you're fucking retarded
Austin Williams
rich coming from a leftcom who will lose his shit if you dare to base your policies on the Gotha Program for example
crashed capitalism creates a window of opportunity for the vanguard to capture the state
I'll take organized action over vague spontaneity any time of the day
whatever floats your boat nevertheless it has a potential at establishing an economic system based on the production for use
thought you were talking about the state in an anarchist sense as a thing in itself
I believe there's a limit at some point capitalism will reach a dead end one idea is that it will happen when the population growth will hit its ceiling
all ERP systems do pretty much the same work there's no point in integrating them
switch off the market is a long way ahead until division of labor is dealt with, end consumer market will be a necessity
calm your tits
Aaron Turner
simply letting you speak works wonders
Eli Stewart
Kill urself my man
Wyatt Wilson
you don't have to be a leftcom to see how retarded your bullshit is
fuck off
and a window's no use if you've got no legs. face it, without an economic program beyond 'do capitalism but with us as sole porky' you're doomed to turn your country into yet another third world dictatorship
do you even read the shit you spout
now who's the armchair dwelling millenarian
really fuckwit? not even to develop and perfect systems for managing a planned economy long before muh final crisis of capitalism? i'm starting to think you just want to seize power and have absolute control over a capitalist state. it's the only explanation i can think of for why you'd consistently turn down revolutionary activity that can be conducted right now without waiting for muh crisis to come along
and i don't like retards but here we fucking are
Isaiah Peterson
lol, get off your high horse left was bitching about tankies even before the term was invented
Noah Torres
that just implies you've been plaguing us for a very long time - not that you don't need to fuck off
Kevin Lopez
I guess you're just sympathetic to their theory
more like economic program to integrate all industry because modern capitalism is too impotent to do the job
kek, gotta give it to you leftcoms nobody can beat you in smugness
never said this I said there's no point in integrating two software packages that do the same fucking job
I'm all for this but to think you can create some decentralized planning infrastructure that will just take over if capitalism crashes is a pure delusion
why are you so rude? :^)
Hunter Adams
more sympathetic than i am to the tankie faggots that make the left more retarded with their presence, sure
under party control yeah save it fuckhead, we know the tune and we know how the song ends - you cunts have played it long and loud enough over the past century
ok that's my bad, imprecise language, i meant integrating in the sense of networking together - should have just said networking
and i think waiting until after a crash/revolution/civil war to do it is pure delusion, and also has never ever once even fucking remotely worked despite being tried a fuckton of times. we have to entertain the possibility that winging it will continue to fail
Anthony Fisher
it's like a drop in the ocean
vanguard will commit suicide and hand all power to the soviets after integration is complete :^)
Andrew Reed
I hope that we just have a love-hate relationship and you don't really want us to disappear every Rome needs its Carthage
Dylan Hill
that might be, but every drop counts when you're looking to drain the ocean
you only get to make jokes after we've conclusively established a maximum level of retardation - otherwise it's impossible to tell whether the retarded shit you spout is a joke or not
nope, i really want you guys to stop fucking existing. you are cancer
incorrect - rome trundled along for more than 6 centuries after it destroyed carthage and salted the earth on which it stood
as if fellating counter-revolutionaries wasn't bad enough
Zachary Powell
I was half-joking :^)
more cancer than bookchinites and anarchists?
but don't you know that it went all downhill from the moment Carthage was no more? read Appian :^) I'm joking btw
what are you, gay?
Samuel Perez
Your hero is a 100kg Italian fatass who's greatest accomplishment was to get arrested by fascists - even Anarkiddies have a better track record than leftcoms, yet you have the audacity to brush off every revolutionary attempt based on 19th entity a priori reasoning, and when they ask you about how to do it better you are basically saying "let them eat cake" in your sheer ignorance of historical review
If I had any power I'd brutally strangle every single leftcom in his sleep and display the bodies in the marketplace, burn their armchairs
Matthew Kelly
how old are you? note for the retarded: i don't care to know your age, i'm saying this makes you look 12
yes, bookchinites and anarkiddies at least have the decency to do nothing visible. tankie faggots turn up to everything irl, make everybody look worse by association, and advocate for shit that is actively harmful out of reverence for the mistakes of the past. tankies are the worst, most metastasised of the left's many cancers
of all the faggot shit that i put up with in order to participate in what is, sadly, the best left-wing discussion forum on the internet - anime is by far the worst thing. it is utter trash and so is everyone who likes it. it is totally irredeemable
Alexander Perry
yes yes, you jerk off over the idea that one day you'll finally get to leverage the power of the state to brutally murder everyone you don't like
we've heard it all before and we're still right and your shit has still never worked. cry more you tankie faggot
Jaxon Reyes
i mean honestly if your shit had worked and made an earnest attempt to build communism even once - even once, in a sea of failures - i'd be right there with you, and so would a lot of other people
but you faggots have never gotten the job done. all you've ever done is make blunder after failure after blunder. i'm no bordigist, but i'm pro-anyone who calls you faggots out on your shit
Hunter Moore
anarchists are pure cringe irl far more so than any unwashed tankie
you're biased anime can make wonders if it's done with attention to detail it's like enhanced live action movies
assembly line cheap anime is shit, but don't allow it to cloud your judgement of the medium
Cooper Peterson
You realize that real existing communism is like Star Trek, you humongous cancerous buffoon?
Let's see here
Let's have a look at the leftcom folder
Will you shut up now. You are like an obese fuck in a sports bar who claims he'd have executed that penalty better
Pic related
Charles Young
but it worked while Stalin was around SU economic growth was second only to japs in the 50s and japs cosplayed soviet model, keiretsu and all that also SU was more diversified and didn't have american backing
Austin James
what you lack in pure cringe you make up for in numbers
how about you stop giving anime a chance. because it is t r a s h. trash.
you and all your cancerous motherfucking forebears have refused to bother figuring out how to implement communism. you have strangled even your own attempts to develop its lower stage in order to preserve bureaucratic control over the economy. and you have the audacity to declare it impossible? you worthless fucking cunt.
yes, that is a list of things that had not been achieved by any of the states claiming to be socialist during the 20th century. at least the other tankie faggot had the integrity not to claim this bullshit
if by wide scale you mean 'limited to individual industrial sectors in order to keep bureaucratic fiefdoms intact' then sure. idiot
gold star buddy, you certainly made a very good social democratic state
pretend i bothered to post molymeme talking about what kind of argument those are
which puts them (i don't say us because as i have said i'm not a leftcom, just someone who agrees with them about you cocksuckers) on a par with you on the 'sincere attempts to build communism' front
And you're like the repeatedly and disastrously failed method of implementing the communist mode of production desperately begging for one more country to turn into a paranoid corrupt social democratic dictatorship
yes, well played
do i seem like the kind of person who would be impressed by the ussr's ability to extract as much from the hides of its workers as the other imperialists? we get it, social democracy with gulags is capable of strong, unsustained economic growth. if that were the subject of the argument that would be it.
unfortunately for you thick cunts it isn't. my contention is that you weren't building communism, and nothing you've said has disabused me of that notion, especially not your pissweak and baseless claims to have removed key planks of capitalism from your economies
Parker Hill
anime is the future
but gulag system was already dissolving in the 50s