How are MLs not idealists and utopian socialists?

How are MLs not idealists and utopian socialists?

Even anarkiddies have a better grasp of Marx.

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They're not utopian socialists because they're not socialists.

They are, they just have an idealist and utopian idea of socialism. They're more like falangists or lasalleans than marxists.

wew I can already feel the butthurt

Shit thread since you don't elaborate on your points.

???

They are literally Blanquists

I thought about asking you to elaborate on the OP, but after reading this I've changed my mind, because there's absolutely no chance whatsoever that you have an intelligent and well-researched point behind your statement.

Seriously, you should read more.

I'm also surprised that MLs aren't considered stupid nationalists akin to the worst rightists in the US. They defend anything done by any regime calling itself communist, even ones that DON'T call themselves communist like DPRK. Their most common argument involves denying and whatabout-ing any argument coming from outside with "That's imperialist propaganda" and any argument from within with "That's defeatism/you're not a real X/ revisionism!"

They're the redneck retards of the left.

...

I don't, merely recognizing that this thread will generous copious amounts of butthurt
I look forward to it

Do you people never get tired of the same punching back and forth?

here's a little something for anarkiddies
reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/27ni79/cmv_anarchism_is_not_possible_on_a_large_scale/
:^)

Stopped reading there

I'm not an anarchist, I'm a marxist.

put OP in the wrong field

take the plunge and become a communalist already

MLs are decidedly not utopian as we admit socialism isn't possible with a large-scale industrial base

Read out theory

Stop writing bullshit and learn what utopian and idealistic actually means

No more than any other Leninist position I suppose. Nothing terribly unique to MLs specifically in that regard.
Some, but not all. This is of course if we understand "utopianism" to mean movements that fail to account for the material conditions of the society they aspire to change and instead attempt to birth a near fully-realized/fully-formed theoretical vision into being. Based on that definition, I'd go so far as to say a solid half if not more of MLs are utopianist in that they are primarily focused on reproducing historical or existing ML societies (usually the Soviet model; time period may vary) rather than seeking to tailor their strategy to accommodate both the challenges and available assets of their respective society.

I'm not a tankie but can you at least explain how and why you consider MLs idealist and utopian?

What?

He clearly meant without. It's hilarious considering the history of socialist revolutions, in that not one of them was ever had in a heavily industrialized country. M-Ls use material conditions as a cop-out for the fact that they're methods caused the failings of these movements, the usurpation of power from the soviets being perhaps the most important example