The YDS (college student wing of the DSA) is doing a debate against the TPUSA (a conservacuck org) of socialism vs capitalism from 6:30 PM ET to 8:30.
From what I've seen from all the lefties on Twitter, it looks like our boy is gonna btfo out of the other guy. So strap in, and get comfy boys.
Here's the link to the livestream: facebook.com
why even debate
Charlie Kirk has one of the most punchable faces in the history of mankind.
I would love to knock the teeth out of his creepy gummy smile.
Can leftcoms make their own /armchair/ board and fuck off already?
kek. i give it 10 mins for kirk to throw out muh cuba and muh stalin
Someone called him a third-rate Tucker Carlson. Lol he literally looks like he could be his son.
how you gonna call yourself that when all you do is shill for all the shit this country already is/embraces
It's a 360 degree turn
OK, I was really impressed by that on-air appearance of Sam Webb with Glenn Beck, so the Demsocs must have truly something illuminating to say in this closed debate of even greater impact.
Does anyone know how to watch a facebook livestream without an account? It keeps telling me "please login to continue" even though I can see some video for a little bit before that.
hack it
the camera location and sound quality is shit
It's starting
It's skipping. Too many people watching, it's not working for me.
are they by a fucking airport?
Goddamn the audio gets weird when they clap
ahahahahahahahahahahhaha
someone needs to go show Holla Forums this bullshit
"Work will set you free"
On his poverty reduction claim: aljazeera.com
It's just the UN fudging numbers, and poverty is getting even worse.
Christopher Columbus discovered capitalism when he came to America
LMAO
MUH IPHONES
Lmfao dude you fucking called it
Any streams not through facebook?
MUH NORTH KOREA
Just did. Called DPRK socialist.
Audible laughter in the audience.
Nah, the laughter was when this dumbfuck said "Socialism is the #1 killer of the 20th century"
67 MILLION KILLED BY STALIN.
THE TRUTH IS BAD ENOUGH WHY DO THEY EVEN EXAGGERATE.
Does anybody else get so fucking tired of debating liberals/conservatives? It's always the same fucking shit, always the same non-arguments about muh iPhones, muh Venezuela, muh big government, muh gorillions
You literally need a 1hour introduction lecture first before you could even debate on an intellectually honest level
Holodomor is fake news. I'd totally say that. I don't care anymore. No point in hiding the powerlevel
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Why are you complaining about feudalism when the clothes you are wearing were made under feudalism?!
NOTREALCAPITALISM
just 1 minute after he went through all the capitalist countries that had some socialist inclinations.
We really need to work on our public speaking skills. People look toward people that look strong and confident.
I think he's fine, but more eye contact would be better.
That and the "um" thing
he needs a podium. He is reading something. That is his problem.
it's like they don't even listen to themselves.
'Arrange' is a bad word apparently. Acting as a group to make our lives better is TOTALITARIAN.
Hope the DSA guy calls him out on this.
Lmfao he brought up Uber. Please Ryan, fuck him up.
UBER fuckin UBER
this. is it streaming anywhere else?
The bourgeoisie acting as a group to enrich their lives is apparently righteous and good though.
Aren't they notorious for underpaying employees and STILL losing billions of dollars?
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literally t. bordiga
Someone posted yesterday about how the left should take the spook as the "light side", acting as law and order, while the right act as chaos.
The capitalist arguing against arrangement and organization, it looks like they are putting us in this role. Seems okay. Maybe we should take up the flag of Apollo?
Idk I just quickly made a bullshit account
Lol everybody laughed
Why fucking live anymore
Whoa, no one tell Charlie about the American Revolution which I'm sure he cums over.
I'll try to restream it through twitch
god bless you if you do
Is there a chat for this? If so, we need people to go into it and start correcting every single one of Kirk's fuckups. I say "people" instead of "a person" because that's basically every single thing he's said.
c'mon, reveal your powerlevel DSA
he didn't actually say socialist, only that they know how to invest better, and it wasn't because of the profit motive
true. still implies that an increased state sector is the end all be all of socialism
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Yeah what money does Facebook and Google make off its users aside from selling their data?
Capitalists actually believe this shit
Twitch restream for debate, low quality.
mfw
Well, if you look at the Facebook comments, everybody is pretty much is ripping his shit up in real time. So I think we're fine.
He didn't quite say that, but I do wish he'd use more Marxist talking points, like saying exploitation is extraction of surplus value. Those are harder to counter.
If there are any problems, please let me know here.
He needs to talk about how all profit is exploitation
These guys aren't even debating. Just repeating their talking points to the audience while basically pretending the other guy isn't here
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Is the conservative meme that government has actually grown in the past decades have any basis in reality whatsoever?
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He's literally arguing in a different framework of reality, totally ignoring the neoliberal privatization.
He keeps rattling off unprofitable companies.
I'm no able to watch, just following the thread on my phone at work. Has he said anything explicitly Marxist? I know DSA has a Left Caucus to move the organization further towards Marxism, but all the millennial DSA members I have run into are pretty open about their Marxism, so I thought YDS might be different
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Yeah, this is why I want him to use Marxism. If he noted that private property rights have to be enforced by *psst* the big gubermind through police, then he'd really look stupid.
it's working, thanks fam
Not really.
Huh, interesting. I've been hopeful that the org will become more radical, and that helps.
I wish my man could BTFO this classcuck on that poverty "reduction" talking point.
When the fuck are cappies going to learn what socialism is?
why is he mentioning this to a demsoc if they came to power from revolutions?
Is it just me or is this DSA guy starting to sound more liberal by the minute?
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it's just you
this is fucking sad
Because we plunder other countries on an hourly basis
Currently facebook comments are arguing that because capitalists make more money they are better than socialists.
On the whole kind of bullshit mr magoo said, why are you fixated on the one point that is actually more or less correct. People are objectively better off, they're just still poor because they're relatively at the same level or worse because rich are getting richer quicker.
If Charlie did a basic reading of socialism his argument for economic freedom would be donezo.
Muh Iphones
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BERNIE SANDERS HAS 3 HOUSES
that means socialism is wrong :^)
I'm totally convinced Charlie just came here to shill for Apple.
Okay Ryan is poking Charlie on whether capitalism always aligns with freedom, this could be good.
Mike in the Facebook comments dropping the hard truth:
I'd agree that a bigger concern is wealth inequality but it's actually a bullshit statistic which is relatively easy to dispel. Why not take the opportunity? You lose nothing by dismantling it and can leave the audience with a sense of suspicion towards your opponent.
tbh that make you a bit of a hypocrit, you could help people with this
still not an argument against socialism
I'm not saying this, this is what Charlie said earlier.
NOOOOO RYAN.
Wasn't there yet.
But he's right, caviar socialists are a detriment to the cause
Ryan should've said Rojava
He's arguing for normies man. We can't expect him to say Rojava or something.
o shit it's getting heated
Charlie can't handle a dank socialist maymay
Where'd he pull that one out of?
He legitimately probably is. Bernie sanders has a lower net worth than he SHOULD just from modest savings to a senator's salary, he's tossing money in SOME pit or another.
context?
Oh god, the DSA of all things is responsible for Lenin?
Wow, really made me think
God I hope the DSA even knows about Rojava.
I think so too, but Charlie was making an argument that Bernie wasn't a good socialist because he had three houses.
The German's losses in WW1, knowing these fucks.
OH SHIT THE MARXISM QUESTION
He just denounced Marx.
What a cuck
Why even humor these 3 HOUSES questions?
Does Bernie own the means of production?
What the fuck
I was upset on which countries he called out for which he thought was a socialist ideal.
Comeon ryannnnn… Socialism is based in marxism you dork.
No he didn't.
He said it was based on a lot of things and partially Marx; but damn Ryan socialism comes from Marx, just say it.
He's trying to make it palatable to normies who have been brainwashed
WEAK performance from Ryan
Yeah but YDS are so shit, they couldn't even explain personal property. Seriously done with is. Started off well but now it's just liberal SocDem shit.
Yo Lincoln killed a million of his own people. Absolute monster.
That makes sense, and maybe the DSA acts as a soft intro into socialism.
I don't know, I feel like it's a bit of a hat trick. It may be useful in a Machiavelli sense.
Marx was dumb, good critique of capitalism, shitty "where do we go from here."
He said "No". And then this liberal bullshit like the School of Life video "Marxism has failed but we can take the good parts out of it blabla"
Why cuck yourself for no reason? Literally nothing what the other guy said was an attack on what Marx actually wrote
No, you could argue he was wishy-washy, but he certainly didn't denounce him. He even said he's an influence.
This
Yes, it's a big-tent org. The level of radicalism depends on the chapter. Some stuff upsets me for being watery, but I'm hopeful that they'll shift further left nationally.
You can't make that comparison to Republicans. Many of them believe he was a monster.
Hat trick like a betrayal to the truth. It sets up new socialists with wrong answers.
I'm the head of a YDS chapter, I'll be emailing Ryan for this disappointing defense of socialist principles and theory.
I don't think he was 'condemning' Marxism, rather saying that Marx isn't the organizations only influence.
Literally the only think socialist he said was muh coops in the beginning.
He didn't even say that capitalists didn't even steal the fruits of your labor. It's more like an entry pill for SocDems I'd say
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I hope it will shift left too.
That's where I am ultimately arguing from, but I'm also trying to see the utility of having a socialist-lite org to get people in deeper.
I'll definitely be interested in seeing the response.
Then why does he say "no" after an awkward pause of 10 sec of thinking
You can clearly see he is uncomfortable about being asked about Marx, he was squirming
I'm a tankie but I wouldn't expect him to defend ML but what the fuck is so bad about Marx that he is becoming this taboo
If Marx is responsible for muh gorillions you may as well just say that Bismarck is responsible for the Holocaust
I think he's closing stronger. I wouldn't shit on him too hard
Good for the YDS to host a debate, but it was a loaded crowd: preaching to the choir.
In the future, we should try to get more even audiences so that we can reach out to the people who really need to hear it. However, we need better presentation and debate skills in order to do this.
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Seriously, get me into these positions. I'm a very good public speaker. Charles would have ate dirt if I was the guy opposite him.
I didn't watch the stream, but what did he defend exactly? Because as far as I know the DSA plans to work within capitalism.
DSA has elections in Chicago this august, you could run for something if you made it
Ryan should've pointed out the arbitrary nature of poverty lines when Charlie brought up poverty reduction rather than somewhat agreeing with him.
The capitalist guy was fucking horrible. Literally the regular AnCap poster on /liberty/ would have done better than this guy. He was economically and politically illiterate.
You should really able to pubstomp that guy. Once a better conservative debater shows up hell destroy you
MUH VENEZUELA
I'm a New York guy right now. I have trouble getting involved in organizations because for the past few months I've been considering moving. Maybe I should check out Chicago, but everywhere is just so god damn expensive.
MUH NORTH KOREA
Every little bit you can give helps the cause.
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Don't forget that Bernie Sanders recently bought a house. Wtf I hate socialism now
What did he mean by this?
Haha just generally. I have been trying to help encourage action on the board. Joining an org, starting an org, participating in your community are all worth steps.
Disgusting. Who else, Proudhon?
Like especially if you are a good public speaker, we need you. We need strong leaders.
Guaranteed this TPUSA douche is a scion of some rich family
Errytime someone really, truly proselytizes the whole meritocracy scam that's the case
I get what you mean here, but I'll explain my reticence.
Because of the fact that I may be moving so soon, I'm reluctant to get involved in a community I may no longer be apart of for long.
Cool, then set me up with a job and an apartment in Chicago, and buy me a bus ticket.
We need strong organizations. Strong leaders can't lead the weak (well, they can, but only to oblivion). If I've learned two in the past year they're this:
1) I'm very persuasive in person.
2) It doesn't mean a damn thing because you can't talk to everybody one on one.
Thank you for the headsup OP!
today?
Quickest way to refute is just ask them why they don't mention the other countries in the Pink Tide
No problem! I saw on Twitter, that there'll be another debate by a different YDS chapter tomorrow, so I'll try to post a thread for that one too.
Sorry, meant to say tomorrow
I was gently trying to encourage you. It seems like you are finding reasons against action rather than for them.
You are very unpersuasive.
Thank you! Please do.
Why are you butthurt about this? I don't understand your aggression.
which chapter?
thanks OP
I'm telling you you're unpersuasive. I'm unperturbed, friend, I've got a big smile across my face because I'm listening to Ella Fitzgerald. Keep encouraging people, just don't do it gently; that doesn't work.
It's William and Mary, at 7 PM. Topic is "Taxation and the Welfare State".
No problem comrade!
Maybe it's a cultural thing. I come from the PNW and your text reads as aggressive.
Today I advocated for kindness and action on the board and I got a positive reaction. Gentleness and forwardness are both needed, one isn't necessarily better.
Turning off stream
That can be true, you're right. I'm not advocating arrogance, and I put stock in a kind attitude.
I may definitely be a cultural thing; I admire brash niceness, and I'm not talking about imageboard persuasion per se, but rather reflecting on my experience talking to people outside of here.
There I've found it invaluable to make it clear you have coherent beliefs, firmly held, and that you're ready to defend them.
Never say 'I see your point,' in a debate. Debate is about persuasion, not finding truth. There's absolutely nothing wrong with telling someone you see their point when you're both coming from the same place, but in a situation like the debate tonight it helps no one to give ground.
Anchorage DSA probably has the best social media guy running it. Pic related
I definitely think Ryan could have been more stern in his points, he seemed too giving in the argument. I agree with you.
Since we are talking about culture, it's interesting that Ryan didn't go stronger. I didn't know Georgetown was in DC, I'd think that being on the east coast would make him more assertive.
Maybe because it's a private university?
It's primarily because Georgetown is genteel. I think D.C. is a great city, but that's because even though D.C. isn't wholly Southern it's very Southern.
So antebellum reasoned discourse is valued, even though it's a sham.
Nothing to do with it being a private university, don't be so condescending. Go to Columbia University and you'll get ten times more hardasses than at Texas A & M. I mean that, too, and this is from an uneducated prick who hasn't been to school in years.
Not trying to be condescending, I'm just using limited info to try to find a cause. Only one private uni in my area, they are somewhat sheltered compared to public students.
I think there is a way to be assertive and still be genteel. More eye contact would be a start.
Engels of course.
Got a better link?
I just inspect element it away. Pretty easy after you've figured out what needs to go the first time.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
Right click on it and then click inspect element, code will appear on your screen. Move your mouse around it until the areas you want gone are highlighted, then select the line and delete it, do this until everything is visible. You can delete the greyed out layer too. It's worth learning because you can use it for other things like lazy paywalls. There's also a load of memes on facebook that can be worth ripping and it helps you get at them too, it's how I got a load of my nazbol ones.
Oh god here we go…
Neat, thanks user. I wonder why ad blockers haven't figured out a consistent way to handle this shit.
Has anyone ever actually seen a debate where the right-wing side actually understands what capitalism and socialism are instead of beating on a straw man?
No problem. I think the lack of a uniform strategy in walling off content and making anti-adblock features makes it harder for them to cover, unlike simply blocking common ad servers wholesale.
lol
Sounds like it might be a good idea. Having the workers control the MOP sounds better organized anyway.
This one could be useful.
Yes chitown is v expensive in white neighborhoods. we have billionaires here and they gotta keep the rabble enclosed in their sections.
Chicago is more expensive than NYC now?
No. But is def one of the "expensive" cities along with SF and Seattle. Compared to St. Louise rent and cost of living is astronomical.
pls ignore my terrible spelling and grammar mistakes. I'm pretty fucked up right now.
DSA confirmed for suckdems. What a disappointment.
Yeah unfortunately this is a ubiquitous thing now in American cities. Give it a few decades and every city will be another SF or Seattle.
It can't last decades. It's completely unsustainable. SF might start purging the homeless any day now to keep their new money happy and the property values up. Airbnb and the housing market, which is driving the bulk of this, are mostly just griffins and eventually the money comes due and you get another 2008. The tech boom is built on NOTHING companies are invested in because they are believed to create wealth in the future and when the bubble pops so will go the absurd property values.
I thought this was a serious debate.
Of course it's unsustainable long term. "Decades" may be the wrong phrasing but so called "affordable" cities will catch up in 20-30 years
What's next, libertarians that aren't pedophiles?
I've started always responding to those arguments with
Even if we accept their claims of muh gorillion, it's totally dwarfed by the corpses of capitalism. That way, you don't have to waste your time with explaining whether the USSR was socialist, not socialist, on the way to socialism, blah blah blah…
I've never really thought about that until now. I can't think of a single debate where the opponent had a clue. Surely there has been at least a few. Maybe between some intellectuals during the cold war or something.
Good.
Former ultra-leftie turned neo-leninist who's seriously looking into joining dsa and every time I come across some fool hiding his commie level it turns me off from the org.
At this point, lefties keep and push the line and know that events will precipitate further shifts lefts. No need to bend. Better to hold and make a good split if need be then stay in a perma watered down pressure group.
The only thing stopping them from having better representation is people like you not joining and taking matters into your own hands. Speaking from experience what happens for these events is people volunteer for stuff because other people don't want to and they don't have enough people to fill all the roles and conduct all the events.
Everything is permissible so long as there's a contract involved.
Ton of the DSA people are actual Marxists. Lots of Luxemburgists. Left caucus in general is great. I don't know about YDSA, but new members probably don't have a clue and the old guard in DSA are succdems faggots that should just die.
You would be correct
Rosa.
Take a good long look in the mirror, son
YEAH BUT GUBERMENT REGULATIONS
So fucking annoying… the right is the densest collection of hypocrites in the history of human thought
Take a good long look in the mirror, son
"The Union troops and the Emancipation STOLE our property from us!! They were the REAL socialists!!"
a dialectic? on screen? people would get nosebleeds.
we need left-wing podcasters and vidbloggers (sorry for the 90s scifi terminology) - on whatever crops up as youtube etc slowly decays - who can garner a large following with quilly cynical bullshit, but sometimes put out really hard-hitting (sematically legit whenever the tone is serious) content. not just propaganda, but stuff that waves around around juicy, thick consideration for opposing views in the face of the audience. flaunts the stuff.
this is the only environment in which I can imagine people getting engaged in a debate between two people being aggressively intellectual at one another without resorting to everyday shit-slinging: a talk show with a ludicrous amount of creative control and people who respect the intelligence of their audience, although definitely not their memory and/or attention span!
embracing your enemy and crushing the air out of their lungs is not an elegent way to kill, but nobody will accuse you of being underhanded, strangely enough.
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but in the future EVERYTHING is on the WEB!
oh, wait. you're right. this is early cyberpunk and everybody constantly has to be reminded HELLO READER EVERYTHING IS ON THE WEB - just like in real life
THE CLOUD
GET ON THE CLOUD
IT FUCKING RAINS MONEY THE CLOUD PUT YOUR NOTEBOOK IN IT LET US AGGREGATE YOUR EFFERVESCENT LINGUAL TOUCH THE CLOUD
You just named my vaporwave act and first album.
Haven't watched debate yet and I gotta wake up early for work tommorow.
Who won the debate?
He's the biggest boy scout in the fucking universe and what I think of when people say "fuckboy". He still think Ted Cruz beat Bernie at that debate.
Lol that's what I think whenever I force myself to look at his tweets. Total fucking moron. That being said I've never seen a "good" conservative debater, Ted is close but I feel like good debaters also tend to adopt positions that are y'know defensible.
Proudhon, Rosa-chan, Engels, De Leon, Orwell, Stirner. The works.
HAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAH WOOOOOOOW
It probably wasn't Our Boy but it sure as hell wasn't Kirk
It wasn't a great debate but the socialist won by a long mile, because he had actual arguments. The capitalist guy literally kept talking about how capitalism is perfect and socialism is evil, and he went on a rant about muh iphones. He was as cliche as it gets, almost too good to be real.
HE CRACKA AIN'T KNOW HOW TA SCREENSHOT
twitter.com
I can't stop laughing over how this guy got completely BTFO by simple arguments had to resort to ad hominems
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so, what's the deal with the trip? you some sorta faggot?
I'm going to start a YouTube show that I've been planning for years at some point in the future which was why I adopted the trip but I'm also one of the oldest users here and feel like I have a sort of seniority which is probably pretty gay
a simple 'yes' would have sufficed
I considered just saying "yes" but I didn't want to come off as a smug asshole and a lot of people ask me why the trip so I thought I might just be genuine
yeah but its sort of worse now. like you think being here a long time entitles you to a trip? bitch i've been here since the beginning, i drew some of the lowest quality flags we have, but you don't see me needing to tripfag about it
Can I be a guest? I want to start a YouTube-based political show, but I don't have the self-motivation and I would really want someone else to discuss things with rather than blathering into a microphone over gameplay footage. I just started posting here recently, maybe a week ago, after suffering on Holla Forums for months, typically raiding right-wing threads with demsoc views. I didn't even know this place existed, but people seem to be okay with my ideas since I've started posting.
You apparently haven't been here since then because I post all the time with the trip.
Rule of thumb is that content creators and actual figures can/should trip.
yeah, when they're the op of a thread with their content. otherwise it's just tripfagging, isn't it?
obviously your 'content' didn't rate high enough for me to rag on you before
Neat well I'm not having this conversation. Nobody has a problem with my use of a trip except the occasional guy who comes along with a thumb up his ass to tell me I'm doing it wrong, everyone else appreciates my input and knowledge of theory and recognizes that the trip shows I'm not just some beatoff or newbie or moron or shitposter
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I'm glad you feel the same way
Oh I actually didn't see your post there buddy. This is actually a great idea and I'd love to do this. I've noticed that these shows are much more likely to succeed if they have multiple people commentating and interplaying and the flow is much more natural and feels much less like a lecture (Sargon). HMU on Twitter @LaresGriton and we'll talk
Keep telling yourself that, Charlie
GENDER
AND
PERSUASION
tpusa.com
I wonder if dressing up as IDF and shooting at Palestinian kids is included.
>LITERALLY
>SIXTEEN
>YEARS
>OLD
I'm also going to start a YT channel in a couple weeks, I was motivated by xexizy's video appealing to content creators.
P.S you don't have any seniority, and even if you did, you wouldn't need to have a trip
no, but licking Netanyahu's shitting anus probably is
but that's two kinds of capitalism
The flower makes it seem like we have a flower based economy, like netherlands used to do with tulips.
Who was in charge of symbolism for this event?
The last thing we need is another skinny twink making youtube videos.
nigga what