Any logically consistent Marxist can see the issue with idpol as practiced by liberal SJWs...

Any logically consistent Marxist can see the issue with idpol as practiced by liberal SJWs. Their ideology is ultimately centered around the idea of class oppression and is thus centered around the idea that it's possible to attain equality under capitalism. As such they ignore class oppression for secondary forms of oppression such maxims such as "We need more female CEOs". It's clear that their discourse has no place in the left.

What's equally naive however is class reductionists who dismiss all analysis of other forms of oppression as "muh idpol". Even Marx himself advocated for the liberation of women and PoC back when it was controversial to do so as he understood the oppression of these groups was an integral part of class society. As gender theory is far more advanced as it was in Marx's day it seems natural to also focus on the plight of queer and transgender individuals. To shy away from such discussion in fear of being "divisive" is ultimately ultra-leftist and anti-Marxist. We should, without fear, combat incorrect ideology as we see it as nothing should be immune to criticism.

Pic unrelated

Other urls found in this thread:

rjh.ub.rug.nl/genderstudies/article/view/1904/1897
ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2011.300315?journalCode=ajph
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

They're literally 0,001% in society. It's irrelevant. If someone has gender dysphoria they can see a therapist or a doctor. Putting your sexual deviations on a huge plastic sign is quite obnoxious in my opinion.

Yeah but you must understand there is a difference between political, legal oppression and cultural oppression. Obviously you should advocate suffrage for women and blacks. However, cultural superstructures, such as the traditional family, are much harder to change since you can't really force people to live a certain way, or under certain values. This is where identity politics become useless. For cultural superstructures to dissolve, you need to change the material base. You can fire as many cops as you want for being racist, as long as blacks are in an economically shitty situation, they'll commit more crimes, and police will use racial profiling.

I take you mean far more retarded.


Paranoid-schizophrenics and borderliners with coloured hair for whom being gay isn't cool enough.

Nah, fuck off

Best tankie post in a while.

the racial profiling stems from the class status associated with black skin, working class and lumpen, which then leads to profiling and consequently higher crime statistics alltogether across all classes amongst blacks

just a little correction, otherwise good post

An opposition which only makes sense to tankies.

other forms of what? expressions of class antagonism? like transgenders?
let's compare caitlyn jenner to any given prole trans. please tell me how much they have the same struggle in common. "class reductionist" my ass, you are a class collaborationist. instead of the "german race" you take whatever liberal approved identity suits you and pretend that workers and capitalists have the same common interest because "muh poor (or rich) oppressed identity group".

no, fuck off.

I'm interested in communism because I'm a worker, and that's that really.

The really funny thing is that is what attracts more individuals from "oppressed" groups to communism. People who really know what it's like to be shit on by the system would much rather hear a plan of action for obtaining things like good jobs, free housing and healthcare, and democracy. Pandering to their identities just makes leftists sound like Democrats.

Their understanding of liberation is different from socialists'. Theirs is, as you said, "We need more female CEOs" bullshit. The oppressor classes having the same demographics as the oppressed classes is idpol nirvana.

Socialist liberation involves aiding oppressed non-class groups become class conscious and breed class solidarity between them all, instead of playing with labels and demographics. Because you can't liberate blacks, women etc. unless blacks, women etc. participate in said liberation.

i agree OP

- leftypol, 1843

-reddit 2017

"No"

>heh u think anything besides my insipid class reductionist worldview is leftist? yeah im a [email protected]/* */ so what? eyah that's a large nigger hanging from my apricot tree
-leftypol comrades, ∞

We are more like .3% of society

there are about 3 of us be every 1000 people

you are either pulling numbers of of your ass, or don't know how percentages work, probably both

This. Marx was talking about a time when racism/sexism/etc was legally permitted or compulsory, which is not the case anymore. The only form of oppression remaining within the scope of the law is capitalism.


SJWs are capitalist ghouls wearing our socialist ancestors' skins as camouflage

It's amazing that you realize that str.asserism I seen with enough derision to be filtered on this board and still deign to strawman so blatantly. Go away

Depends on who you ask. But let's look at two statistics:


rjh.ub.rug.nl/genderstudies/article/view/1904/1897

That's like 0.05%. I might have been exaggerating but what's really interesting is how the amount of transgenders fluctuates by country and culture, as it is 0,5% in Massachusetts:

ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2011.300315?journalCode=ajph

This implies that it's mostly environmental conditioning which makes people transgender, unless you prove to me that the Netherlands are more oppressive about this issue than the USA. It's still irrelevant since it's just another result of alienation.

Isn't the entire "faggots are born that way, reeee!" autism in "social 'sciences'" a purely anglosphere thing, whereas Continental European faggots all start screeching if anyone dares to suggest it might be genetic?

Why hasn't class reductionism/essentialism been word filteres yet? To socialist?

Go back to reddit nerd.


Even back then liberals were scum, Marx knew so and did what was right.

Women aren't any more oppressed than men in the first world. You can make a case for blacks and natives in north america, perhaps.

Marx was warning people about idiots like you. Women are treated like trash all over the world.

how so, in America, specifically?

Discrimated against, treated like objects, never given responsibility, physically and psychologically abused etc.

Liberals like yourself are better suited on tumblr, please leave this is a place for socialists not your kind.

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You are a fucking idiot who has never read Marx.

Racism is "illegal" but it is alive and well in America.

see

The only form of "racism" that exists today in America is legally and practically indistinguishable from generic capitalist class oppression. And that is the only reason it persists.

All this pandering to the right will be the end of the Left tbh.

what role do you think women will have after the great revolution? they will be relegated to homemakers or passed over for a work in favour of a more "reliable" man, it's this type of bullshit that needs to be corrected

Maybe you yourself would do well to read the works of Marx himself instead of liberal postmodern writers whom have themselves have only read bastardized second hand readings of his thought.

Go back to Holla Forums, idiot.

what exactly are you basing that assertion off of

>this isn't derogotory to actual rape victimssurvivors
I haven't had an opportunity to post most of these in years, are we being raided by Tumblr/SRS or something?


Why do you imagine that women choosing how to live their lives, free of legal or economic pressures against them, require babysitting to purge wrongthink? The place for women after the revolution will be whatever women as individuals desire.

How men treat women today. Hell, how "communists" treats their women in this very thread. Are you this stupid? Lol.

exactly, this thread is fucking full of male tankies that have no clue about gender oppression

fuck you all you assholes I'm not lifting a finger for the revolution until you acknowledge women and all other gender/sexual minorities require attending *more* than just "muh one dimensional class dichotomy"

so you have nothing concrete on which to base your projections and use only your myopic personal perceptions, cool

fuck off cunt

What's the matter did I touch a nerve?

Accusing others of having not read Marx when it is quite clear that you yourself have not read any of his works directly is much more obvious to online posters here than your would think.

I will be nice this time and just recommend that you go and read his works directly this time instead of relying on secondary sources, Honestly you can learn a lot from reading thinkers directly, give it a go and best luck on your first step into the world of Marx.

You are free to leave here if you want.

I listed half a dozen issues women face. If you want to pretend they don't exist then that's your problem, people who have actually read Marx disagree with you of course and you will be gulaged.

Well now, I appreciate that. Thanks for proving my point :)

go back to reddit you dumb hole

I guarantee I have read more than you sweetheart :)

shut up cunt

Quote me, too. Smile for the goons, everyone!

Most of which are bullshit, unless of course you conditioned to see malice behind everything and to view the world through the lens of everlasting victim hood.

Who hurt you

pretty sure men face the exact same issue, with the exception of "never given responsibility" which is factually untrue.

mickey mouse

Get a life, loser. They are very much real, if you had ever spoken to a woman that wasn't related to you she would tell you the same.

fuck off whore

LOLOLOLOL
Kys asap Sargon.

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Now you're just being retarded. Men are discriminated against, probably just as much as women, in no small part thanks to our liberal feminist friends. No, I don't think there's such a thing as "reverse racism" but there are plenty of racist blacks, jews, latino's whatever you have it. You shouldn't put minorities on a pedestal of virtue just because you see them as oppressed.

stop replying to idpol trolls. they are trying to slide and subvert the board. they may be enemy infiltrators

repel all idpol

Calm down, are you okay?
Maybe the imageboard format is a bit too much for you to handle, I personally recommend tumblr for the healthy non-toxic atmosphere where those "big bad broscialists" will not attack you and you can be in a nice safe space.

It's our deep-fried twinkie sandwich, we can't help ourselves.

i'm serious. some of these people might be deliberate provocateurs

combat liberalism

cuz they're just losers who probably deserve it, yeah
Honestly this kind of shit is why I expect anyone invested in idpol to this degree is probably abusive and I'd never go out with them.

Figure they're from Holla Forums or reddit?

worse than both

no way its really alphabet soup

more like private groups/shills

daily reminder

I think it's Weird Twatter goons who have also thoroughly infiltrated the alphabets

I wouldn't put it past them

i'm gay and i still have no fucking clue what these liberal goons are always on about, postmodern theory is meaningless obscurantist tripe


their concept of oppression is wholly different from ours and should not be entertained

Na it is that Ethan Ralph guy who raped and murdered a 13 year old girl behind the dumpster at Arby's in 1995,

wut?

*sigh*

fuck off troll

you're arguing with two different sets of people, moron.

no, its usually the feminists, but whatever.

Spergs spergin' about the internicine eCeleb bitchfights between GGR & Acidfag's GGHQ boards.


Pull the other one, are you gonna try denying that rug munchers have the highest domestic violence rate of any sexual orientation?

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t. shut in

*sigh* this is your mind on Sargon of Akkad

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Literally reddit.

Move past your self inflicted victimization and live a more mentally healthy mind. Trust me my life has become much better when I shed my feeling of victimhood and silly conspiracy theory like notions about "le patriarchy" lurking behind every door. If I can do it so can you.

Who the fuck even is sargon of akkad and why are you so obsessed about him/her?

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the fuck does "power" even mean in this sentence
it seems to boil down to "Women are BY DEFINITION incapable of perpetuating nasty norms and ideas regarding other people with vaginas, or even acting harmful or bullying towards them, because DUDE PATRIARCHY LMAO"

Get some reading comprehension.

oh, yeah,t his is obviously a Holla Forums troll. sjw idpolers fetishize socialism enough to sympathize with 'fuck the rich lmao'.

not going to work cunt. fuck off

I am pointing out how stupid her post was and you can substitute anything for her conspiracy theory because her post was total fucking drivel. Get a grip.

Honestly by the content of your posts you don't seem interested in socialism at all, why are you even on a board about socialism in the first place?

Really all parties would be more happy if you went to a place more fitting to your interests. I would like to recommend the site tumblr as it seems right up your alley.

You can change the base by changing the superstructure, superstruture shapes the base.

It's an indirect way of seizing the MoP but every single movement that has directly tried to seize the MoP has been crushed by pork and any revolutionary feelings that got stirred up by lumpenproles were easily diffused with tiny porky consessions.

Asking proles that are being oppressed by capitalism along with patriarchy and white supremacy is the height of white cis male hurbris. Any authism saying otherwise from anyone but a smashie is falling on deaf ears cause they are the only ones even approaching sormething of standing up to porky

everyone here except maybe rebel obesity hates Sargon, dumb cunt

No, just like Holla Forums's "but isn't class an identity, too?" retardation, the comparison is nonsensical. There is no legal compulsion in countries like the modern USA for women/blacks/etc to submit to "oppression" based on their identity, and are in fact many legal mechanisms with which to fight back against them.

Class, on the other hand, is iron rigid under the law, enforced by economic mechanisms that are just as much enshrined under SJW liberalism as right-wing capitalism.

Get a grip.

You could use some yourself.

Then I'm sure you support the universalization of female prostitution in the name of abolishing wage labor and private property.

Porky does that you stupid swine. Learn to fucking read.

y'never said that in any of the posts I replied to
You just said problems that happen to mostly affect men and not affect women as much are "men oppressing themselves" or something.

Nice try, everyone who actually understands superstructure and base (this does not include the postmodernist sophists by the way) know that changes in the superstructure affect the base to an extremely limited if not meaningless extent that realistically the only way to make real change in society is by first changing the base.

Jesus Christ.

Marx was anti-liberal bullshit and this thread demonstrates that. idpol crap like feminism and anti-racism are divide and conquer tools of the bourgeoisie to diss the masses. In Communism, people would just self-segregate. There could be exclusively white communes, black ones, female only ones, etc. and pelnty of diverse ones. Marx's idea is that instead of relying on the state to legislate social behavior (civil rights acts, divorce courts being bias in favor of women, etc.) people will know what's in their own best intersest and form communes accordingly.

Pretty sure a lot of prostitute are paid by the hour or day by their customers. I don't see the conncetion to private property. And there can't be universaliztion of prostiuttion in Communism, only communes that decide they want prostitution, and other that won't allow it.

…that's not quite what I meant. excerpt is form manuscripts of 1844

if its 1 in 2000 for transmen, and 1 in 2000 for transwomen, together, thats 2 transgender people for every 2000, or 1 in 1000 simplied

that's .1% minimum no matter how you slice it

This word is so overused it has lost all it's meaning. And that's precisely the danger of these words.

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE what is it with Holla Forums today.

All types of oppression are anti-socialist.
Socialism strives for social freedom, including people wanting to dye their hair whatever fucking color they want and being a tranny gender non conforming bigenderless aromantic pansexual deminormative whatever the fuck. Idpol is cancer.

This

I don't know how you got that I was pro-idpol from my OP. I'm merely saying we shouldn't dismiss all discussion of how marginalized people are targeted under capitalism as "muh idpol"

We really fucking should. Every bourgeois media outlet in the world is discussing that shit 24/7. We do not need to add our voice to the din.

Because this concept of "magrinalization" is purely a capitalist creation, one rooted in bourgeois idealism that aims to defend the existence of the status quo.

I could only imagine Marx being against affirmative action quotas. His idea was equal opportunity for all workers to benefit from the fruits of their labor, not equal outcome in all facets of life like the NuLeft wants.

You act as if targeting these marginalized groups isn't the norm and a central part of capitalism. Sure bourgeois media outlets may speak out against the oppression of these groups but it's merely an attempt to commodify their struggle

Nope.

not just commodification of liberation i.e. pepsi, but it wouldn't be far fetched to prove bourgeois media outlets actively playing both sides in order to generate controversy, attention, and thus advertising money from big data

The only place in the west where rape culture is perpetrated & normalized is in prisons.

Back to >>>/tumblr/ you go!

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Base supersedes superstructure. But since English isn't your first language I'll let you know that this still implies superstructure is still integral to capitalist oppression.

People filp out for a reason when Star Wars doesn't have any white guy main characters in it anymore, or Ghostbusters are replaced by women.

Guess you think major social movements are just wild hairs up everyone's asses and have no material base. In this case white guys rightfully see diversification as undermining white supremacy and patriarchy.

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Im gonna contract downs syndrome from reading this shit.

this is fucking retarded though, rey is a shit-tier character and horrible actor.

if you're going to make a whiny, liberal argument that the evil white boys are all reactionary racists at least make it believable.

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No, that would be 2 for every 4000. You have to put those together as well.

you know what

you're right