Holla Forums strawpoll

No. She wasn't.
No. It isn't.

Council communism is anti-party and anti-union which are both major departures from "luxemburgism".

Fucking lit, that is going to trigger some people though.

Also this is the best one of these polls we've had you should be the designated poll guy tankie.

These polls should be serious they actually provide useful information.

y'all niggas need to read marx

So, as it's colloquially used, does left-communism really just mean sassy Marxists skeptical of modern praxis? To me, Bordiga seems to have a pretty undistorted perspective on Marx.

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pick one

Left communism was my meme to be smug with, you fucking cunts. Why didn't you all suck up to the Bookshit forcers and join the latest trend in utopianism? Fuck you.

I read marx. Also I have a lot of proxy's (^:

Left communism is a better meme than Bookchin because it encourages people to read valuable literature like Das Kapital instead of that shit Bookchin poops out.

Go away data miner.

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capitalism with red flags is still capitalism

Phew. My trade is still safe. I'ma celebrate by jamming out to some mint choons while waiting for the final crisis of capitalism that breeds its end.

youtube.com/watch?v=3fmbDPWTC-E

I'm a marxist, positive to a ceremonial king for some reason

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Honestly, that kid kinda looks like me. Not blonde enough though

leftcom is too broad a category tbh

but also since when did leftcome get so popular?

I'll say this is assuming borders are still a thing. If not then there is no point.

I'll take an apolitical king over some dumb fuck like Trump all day. I'll even take the king over the parliament, honestly. But I won't take a king over the dictatorship of the proletariat, but let's say they coexist

Hey leftcom, if the collapse of Capitalism is dependent on the material conditions and therefore inevitable, does it follow that proletarian dictatorship must follow that collapse? I would say no, and that today we must work towards building hegemony and class consciousness, so that once the final crises of capitalism comes, the left is strong enough to push the workers towards dictatorship.

Why all this bookchin hate all of a sudden? Is it because /marx/ was down? I swear there was unreasonably more enthusiasm about his ideas in general before the hack.

It was forced as a meme. It's a good meme though, since it keeps the best of leftist theory while shedding the aesthetics of the USSR, all the while encouraging reading. At least, that was my logic when I was photoshopping Bordiga's face onto everything.

I'd bet that Trump firing missiles at the SAA has made people a bit more critical of the YPG, and by extension Öcalan and Bookchin. Not in the sense that the YPG is actually the CIA, I think the existence of the PKK is argument against that in of itself, but it still is an unsettling alliance.

I'm an AnSyn, but I chose Syndicalism over Libertarian Socialism. I care more about syndicalism that I do about a decentralized government

whats the difference between leninism, marxism and marxist-leninism?

revolutionary Bolshevism, theory derived entirely from Marx, and stalin did nothing wrong in order of appearance

the most general category of left ideologies following marx's idea to use the state apparatus OR a synonym for orthodox marxism, defined by it's rejection of later strands
a subset of marxism, insisting among other things on a vanguard party. also separates socialism and Communism into different stages
basically the official ideology of the Soviet union and co., sometimes also insulting called Stalinism. Later served as the basis for Maoism to further deform from.

I'm no expert, so expect others to insult and correct me.

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State Syndicalism with my primary influences being Marx Deleon Bookchin and Sorel

I really have my own tradition, I might write an anonymous manifesto for you guys to critique/shut on one day

I'm such a fucking hipster

Marxist-Leninist.

smh at there being more MarkSocs and LeftComs here than M-Ls.

I used to be an ansyn, but now I agree with Sorel in the sense that I feel capturing the state is necessary for defending the revolution from reactionaries.

Id be cool with Leninism or Ancoms if either showed promise, and I think that's the only rational opinion to have.

Secretarians get the bullet too

Maybe it's cause your ideology depended on support from the USSR, fam.

Nobody cares about your strongman ideology if you can't back it up.

not worth encouraging people to read Bordiga's drivel

Former DeLeonist (similar to them) here, we've ALL read Marx and rejected Lenin after reading him and realizing that he was an erroneous revisionist with little applicability to the West at the time and even less nowadays.

That being said, I have lately moved towards platformism (the anarchist answer to vanguardism) after seeing the idpol-ridden mess that the IWW has become personally and realizing how accurate Makhno's words were about the state of the anarchist movement.

pick one. and take your shitty memes back to reddit.

If I may ask, what made you an abandon deleon ?(who I understand as a Marxist syndicalist, more than a unique tradition)

More of a generalized rejection of Marxism and the state, specifically his idea that society runs on the basis of dialectical class warfare (class warfare is integral, but I don't like dialectics). Reading Bakunin's "Statism And Anarchy" was big - it really made me question the semantics of Marxism, as what it claims to be the state is what anarchists call government (which they aren't necessarily against) and denies that the state is an institution with its own agency and self-preserving ability to create a new ruling class. I don't think DeLeonism would suffer from this problem of Leninism precisely because its syndicalism (an idea which originated with Bakunin, really) forms the basis of a new, stateless system.

Overall, I agreed more with Kropotkin's mechanistic ideas on how the world works and what to do with that in mind when it comes to making it a better place than I did with Marx's ideas on the subject. I was always a little iffy on the whole dialectics thing (because they struck me as a system made to deal with the development of ideas being shoehorned into describing the development of material circumstances), so I jumped ship when I watched some stuff from Noam Chomsky and realized that anarchists weren't what I had first made them out to be. Maybe I never really understood Marx? I read Wage Labor And Capital, The 18th Brumaire Of Louis Napoleon, and Capital Vol 1. Am I an illiterate because I can't see how dialectics based around class conflict created by changes in material circumstances fit the development of all of human society? I just don't see the "big pattern" in all of history, to be quite honest. IMO these days, take what you can learn about human nature from past occurrences when building institutions for the future, understand the material circumstances underlying class antagonisms in modern society, and build your praxis of what institutions you create (unions, cooperatives, mutual aid societies) around your understanding of it and what can be foreseeably planned for.

where's Egoism mate?

There were a lot more egoists here the last time I checked.

AnCom in the lead, niggers huehuehue

any communalists we have would end up in there too I guess

Looking at the results I'm surprised AnComs leads that much but I'd also contribute this to the fact that State Socialists are more divided along the lines of tankies and semi-tankies, etc. I'd say in practice Marxists, Marxist-Leninists and pure Leninists pull the same string which makes up about the same amount. So generally the statement 50% Anarchists and 50% State Socialists is still correct.

Leftcom number seems rigged and I honestly don't think such a huge number is healthy in terms of activism. No offense.

We have two Dengists which is interesting. After all Deng was some sort of leftcom if you really think about it.

Five users are not leftist which is a good amount to spice things up without being too much of a subversive force.

Market Socialism is still mildly popular considering it is very underappreciated by most leftist tendencies IRL, I guess Holla Forums was always a haven for Market Socialists as well.

And yes, the "google Bookchin" meme really got some people on board. Personally I hope this is just a phase.

I'd say Egoism can lumped together with Indivual Anarchism

I don't think it's fair to call it a strongman ideology if it evidently was strong in terms of self-preservation. There is not a single ML state which fell due to conquest and not through internal revisionism. ML Vietnam was defeating the fucking USA with barely any support of the Soviets.

You may criticize it under economic terms but in terms of being a guide to action (which is it according to Stalin) it was one of the most successful ideologies of all history, conquering almost half the planet with lower numbers and shitty equipment.

Really made me think.

Someone post itsnotaboutdefeatingcapitalism.jpg.

He was implying ML is only relevant when you have the Soviet Union.

Last time I checked Cuba was still there - though admittedly probably turning free market capitalist but we don't know what Raúl is gonna do yet.

Most revolutionary socialists are too afraid what it means to have an international revolution. They complain about MLs being imperialist strongmen but this is probably going to be the reality for any kind of revolution since there will a reaction. How is Trotskys "permanent international revolution" of any use after the German Revolution was crushed? Just plunge Russia into another war?

As a geopolitical player, absolutely.
Symbolically castrated, but still "there", yes.
Why are you complaining?
endnotes.org.uk/issues/1/en/gilles-dauve-when-insurrections-die

congrats, you're as bad as durhing

I'm not denying that. Doesn't change the fact that Marxist-Leninist praxis didn't fail a single time once there was a substantial uprising. I'd say it's pretty damn effective.

Poor excuse. I'd rather live in Cuba than in Haiti or the Dominican Republic or any other carribbean shithole. How castrated are these failed capitalist nations?

Can you not condense your thoughts to a coherent statement? My argument wasn't complex or anything I simply questioned how Trotsky or anybody else in power would have perpetuated the revolution without declaring war which is ironic because Trots love to complain about muh great man theory but actually advocate for something far more aggressive which is more like Maos mass line.

Having looked into that text I feel disgusted by the populist claim that Stalin's bureaucracy was controlling everything while the historical reality during collectivization was that he didn't even receive reports from outside Moscow and Peteograd for 3 months.

A selection of texts describing Russia as a capitalist state. English edition.

The Basics

- Why Russia isn't socialist sinistra.net/lib/pro/whyrusnsoc.html
- An Analysis of Russian Economy marxists.org/archive/dunayevskaya/works/1942/russian-economy/index.htm
- The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is a Capitalist Society marxists.org/archive/dunayevskaya/works/1941/ussr-capitalist.htm
- The Nature of the Russian Economy marxists.org/archive/dunayevskaya/works/1946/statecap.htm
- Doctrine of the Body Possessed by the Devil marxists.org/archive/bordiga/works/1951/doctrine.htm
- The Spirit of Horsepower libcom.org/library/horsepower-bordiga
- Lessons of the counterrevolutions libcom.org/library/lessons-counterrevolutions-amadeo-bordiga
- State Capitalism and Dictatorship marxists.org/archive/pannekoe/1936/dictatorship.htm
- The myth of "socialist planning" in Russia sinistra.net/lib/upt/compro/lipo/lipoebubie.html
- Eight Supplementary Theses on Russia (Dialogue with Stalin 1953) sinistra.net/lib/upt/comlef/art/eightsuppe.html

Longer Texts

- Capitalism and class struggle in the USSR libcom.org/library/capitalism-class-struggle-ussr-neil-c-fernandez
- The Marxian Concept of Capital and the Soviet Experience libcom.org/library/paresh-chattopadhyay-marxian-concept-capital-soviet-experience
- State capitalism and world revolution libcom.org/library/state-capitalism-james-clr

Bonus Material

- The Incoherence of “Transitional Society” as a Marxian Concept marxisthumanistinitiative.org/tag/transitional-society
- The Nonsense of Planning marxists.org/archive/mattick-paul/1937/08/nonsense-planning.htm
- Capitalism and Planning marxists.org/archive/mattick-paul/1935/01/capitalism.htm
- Value and Socialism marxists.org/archive/mattick-paul/1969/marx-keynes/ch22.htm
- Review: “The Revolution Betrayed” marxists.org/archive/mattick-paul/1937/11/revolution-betrayed.htm
- Marxism and Russia sinistra.net/lib/upt/compro/lipi/lipifbibie.html
- The Revolutionary Workers Movement and the Agrarian Question quinterna.org/lingue/english/historical_en/revolutionary_agrarian_question.htm
- "Left-wing communism, an infantile disorder" - condemnation of the renegades to come quinterna.org/lingue/english/historical_en/left_wing_communism_00.htm
- China: The bourgeois Revolution has been accomplished, the proletarian Revolution remains to be made sinistra.net/lib/upt/compro/lipi/lipifbobee.html
- "Proletarian dictatorship" and "socialist society" in the new Chinese constitution sinistra.net/lib/upt/prcomi/ropa/ropaerebie.html
- Mao's China, certified copy of the bourgeois capitalist society quinterna.org/lingue/english/historical_en/maos_china_certified_copy.htm
- Theses on the Chinese Question quinterna.org/lingue/english/historical_en/theses_chinese_question.htm

State capitalism is not a new form of economy nor is it a transitional form between capitalism and socialism: it is pure capitalism, and appeared along with all the other forms of monopoly in the period of the victory of the bourgeoisie over the feudal powers. On the other hand, the capital-state relation lies at the basis of the bourgeois economy in all of its stages.

In short;

- Capitalists existed in Russia. Both social and actual individuals. The state took the form of a capitalist and also the collective farms and peasants with their private plots. Markets existed, even free markets, including a black market. There were even "soviet millionaires". Private property was enshrined by law in the collective farms.
- Capital ran Russia. The law of value made itself felt by the shifting changes in prices and wages and on what was produced. Profit existed, in fact, it was made into a legal requirement for state firms to make a profit. Speculation existed in the countryside with their markets.
- Labour was alienated, there was a constant drive to push down wages and make labour more productive (along capitalist lines, of course). Relative freedom was only awarded due to the need for labour in the process of industrialisation. Still, unemployment was wide spread.
- Russia was not tending towards or transitioning to socialism/communism only to be thwarted at the last minute by "revisionists" and "capitalist roaders".

You know I can just copy-paste 20 Stalinist authors and make a blogpost below.

It's piss-poor if you seriously believe this is somehow addressing any of the points I raised

Go ahead.

You know what I might actually gonna do this later since this leftcom copypasta became popular the past two days

Guess the only way to fight autism is autism

glad to see that the communization team (ancom+leftcom) is dominating, I was kinda worried about the high amount of red capitalists (market 'socialists' and 'marxist'-'leninists')

fify

There's nothing more armchairy than LARPing online as a tankie and upholding the glorious thought of Marxism-Leninism-Stalinism-Maoism-Hoxhaism-Posadism, famalam.

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rather do nothing tbh

What meme ideology have you come up with this time?

top kek
we'll soon be out of armchairs if this continues

Porky always said that anyone can start a business, I think I see a gap in the market for an armchair salesman.

Does national syndicalism count as leftist ideology?

Just cause I ain't posting much anymore doesn't mean it's just ur trade, comrade :^)

Impossible, for you have provided us with the means of relaxation.

Leftcoms aren't determinists.

Im very disappointed

lone hero of our day

we're working on the calculation problem, gomrade
no worry

Why wouldn't it?

I guess. I've never really looked into it. Not really my jam but thats a nice flag though.

weak faggots
got cucked by Franco like Asserists by Hitler

Anyone that stopped calling himself a communalist over that never was one to begin with

master race reporting in.

metadatamining piece of shit, poal.me is better by MILES

I'm at home :)

Leninist without adjectives

source on that pic?

What happened to all of the Syndicalists?

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Luxemcute