Is the trans movement 100% idpol cancer or should we as leftists take an interest in trap politics?

Is the trans movement 100% idpol cancer or should we as leftists take an interest in trap politics?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtu.be/tbzXp_HcOns
nature.com/articles/srep18634
emergencypsychiatry.org/
thephilosophicalsalon.com/the-sexual-is-political/
translucidcomic.com/
yahoo.com/tv/milo-yiannopoulos-fact-check-trans-people-disproportionately-involved-071037564.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassignment_surgery_(male-to-female)
imgur.com/a/norNY
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

It's 99% idpol cancer. There are sane and reasonable trans people, but most are virtue signalling tumblrina faggots

This basically

Honestly if we're talking about a purely medical phenomenon that requires an enormous amount of privacy not to publicly humiliate anyone who has it for laughs, it shouldn't be a political issue at all and the public at large should be discouraged from making it one on either side of the aisle.

This remnant of internet "look it's a lolcow" type 2006 ED shit and the reaction to it has done nothing but irritate everyone and shit on everything.

People are addicted to it politically the same way people are addicted to tabloids.

100% gulag material and anti revolutionare spies.

If their privacy is your business, what makes your privacy more important? Where is the precedent?

the trans people are potential comrades, to be sure

its just the focus on idpol rather than class that makes a specific person a liberal rather than a leftist

there's a lot of potential material interest for transsexuals in a single payer health service, for instance

To be fair, I think there is a differance to me made between intersex people who end up going to surgery and taking huge amounts of hormons to change their gender and people who just "identify" as other sex by dressing up and applying makeup.

Do you have an ED page?

youtu.be/tbzXp_HcOns

huh, is this a new american thing?

I personally can't relate emotionally to traps, faggots and other deviants
so I don't care really

trannys are mentally ill and should be abandoned. they're not good people. they are intrinsically selfish. we shouldn't help them!

Trannies, like feminists, only seek to destroy radical leftist movements from the inside through their hysterics and attention whoring ways.

Yeah agreed, i think there needs to be a hard distinction made here. I think boys should be able to dress in skirts if they want but that's not the same as them being girls. Now if they have surgery maybe I'm more accommodating to that view.

We should start a leftist ED

They are mentally ill and mentally ill people cannot be trusted.
Gotta do like Castro did and jail them to avoid any sabotage against the revolution.

That would require that a clique of us get assblasted due to being banned for posting pedo porn :^)

Maybe we need to recruit some ancaps then


But Castro realised the error of his ways :^)

jesus christ why do you people have such a bone to pick with trans people?

I don't strictly have any huge problem with them but can you deny that they've thrown their hand in with the SJWs and that 90% of supposed Trans people are just 'genderqueer' transtrenders?

We don't hate Trans people though. We have qt cumdumpster Yui here and everyone loves it.

Watch Ed Wood's Glen or Glenda.
It's a very good documentary on the issues of trans people.

And no, it's not something the revolutionary vanguard should care about.

Be like Lenin and don't give a fuck.

Trannies are lumpenproles. Only interested in their own selfish desires.

you just haven't come across the cool tannies OP

Equating trans people with trans idpol is pretty reactionary and kind of hurts our message.

Probably because of dumb cunts like you and the rest of this thread who shit on an entire group of people because of muh SJWs. At least they pretend to accept us

Meanwhile I just want to be treated like an actual person, not an identity or disorder

WOW! I wonder who would agree with that…

THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF BODYHORROR

I have gender/sexual orientation issues. I like being a man and fucking women. But I think I would enjoy being a woman more. I haven't given serious thought to going on hormones or getting a sex change op. But I fantasize about being a woman. And having sex with both men and women as a woman.

I'm not in favor of Oppression Olympics shit. And I'm not saying the concerns of white working class cis ablebodied males don't matter. But transphobia, homophobia, racism, hatred of women, misandry, ableism, etc. should not be ignored. And all these issues do intersect with class. You can't just look at class to the exclusion of everything. "Your ideology is a spook" etc. Material conditions are not the only fucking thing that matter to people. And part of the reason why my material conditions are shit is because society is ableist and sexist.

so attack SJW's retard. and genderqueer is just as valid as trans binary. maybe try leaving people alone?

*fucks ur boipussi*

feel accepted yet? ;^)

You want to be fucked as a woman, biologicly, or to have the role of a woman, as a social construct?

Again, Glen or Glenda.

Look if i only hung out with yes men who never made jokes about furries i would be in a community of complete hug box cancer. I agree some people here have some dumb ideas about Trans stuff but that doesn't mean everything you say is right either. If all that matters to you is that little part of your identity then fine, go, but the rest of us who acknowledge class as the biggest divider of people will continue to work towards abolishing that.

Also to the other guy, no, gender queer is not valid, unlike transgender ism it has no scientific basis.

there hasn't even been enough research to begin with. but until then why cant people who feel genderqueer be left alone?

Are people in the street looking for people that are bisexual but want to feel special genderqueer, in order to harass them?

All I see is people looking for ways to get offended in order to feel important and special.

You know.. Like those faggots on pol…

Oh honey, you have no idea

It's not like i think we should persecute them but when they can't or won't police their community to stop their own reactionary anti cis straight white male bullshit why should i try to spare their feelings? I don't see why i shouldn't mock someone for believing something that's obviously false and divisive.

They are merely acting in their self interest
Wew lad

There is a paralel universe, where David Cronenberg is trans.

Remember this, next time you think about living in a paralel universe, people!

Most trans people I've met are radical leftists. Don't lump them all together, please. Trans people have legitimate concerns for their safety and health, so a trans movement is important but should still be separate from the main leftist movement, the economic one I guess.

Also, yes, as the other user said, literally nobody would even know you're ''genderqueer'' unless you choose to make a spectacle of it to get attention and/or feel special/like a victim. Maybe we should stop demonising cis people and people won't feel the need to claim to be special snowflakes.

I do acknowledge class as the big divider, hence why I'm a leftist. I just don't see why I shouldn't be able to try and cure this fucking nightmare of a mental disorder by transitioning at the same time.

Glen or Glenda is funny as hell, but it is strangely likable. It has all the postmodern silliness without any of the pomo pretense. It is a plea for acceptance without the passive-aggressive pseudointellectual wanking. Ultimately, it succeeds at its goal. By the end you can't help but like Eddie.

If gender is a tool of the capitalist class, then trans people are revolutionary subjects.

both. Though admittedly I'm more interested in getting fucked as a woman. Like I wouldn't bother shaving my legs or wearing makeup unless I wanted to advertise my sexual availability. But at the same time society places very restrictive gender roles on me as a man. And as a woman I feel like I could be more like my true self and show a broader range of expression. I have been called too feminine before once. Guys and girls have called me gay for ordering fruity drinks at a bar. Some people thought it was weird when I played with stuffed animals as a child. Society expects me to be a bread winner. I'm more of a domestic type. But at the same time I'm nerdy/techie and far less social than typical for a woman.

...

Who are you quoting?
Transsexual is not a sexual orientation

I mean… it can be. I personally only fuck other trannies :D

Fuck you spooked idiot
I'm leftist for my own selfish desires as well

I dunno, OP. Is it? Are you a principled individual, or some shit spewing reactionary sucking up to Holla Forums trash and other backwards garbage that chooses to make itself subhuman?
Trans is not even a question. They have the right to go to whatever bathrooms they want, as every one else does, and if you have a problem with it, you have the right to get the beating your mamma should have gave you, you stupid, sack of whiny tattle-tale trash.

Is r/socialism raiding us?

No, but Holla Forums is always here.
Just like you, who are Holla Forums, who are here.
And, yes, your momma should have dragged you out behind the woodshed and flayed your ass until there was nothing left but blood and screaming and you learned to fuck the fuck off and leave other people to their business.

The failed career of Ed Wood is another reason why Capitalism is bad.


Well, first of all, if you wanna dress like a woman, you can, without being gay or bi. Or you can be bisexual and a transvestite. I shall never say crossdresser. It's shellshock, not PTSD. Now, finding someone that will accept you as you are and so on.. that another mountain of human suffering.

LEL! TOP KEK! This isn't the 50s! Noone is expected to be a bread winner… in fact.. … where is even the bread to win?

Anyway, the point is, experiment and find what you like, but don't change your sex, or something without being sure. Gender is a social construct and does not really exist.


Well, I for one support going back to one bathroom for all. LIKE BACK IN THE OLD DAYS.

huh, was this really a thing?

You've never been in a shop with only one bathroom?

I must be living in a 3rd world country and not know it…

JASON WAS WRONG!
EUROPA CAN BE 3RD WORLD TOO NOW!

Mememan is going to make Stirner look like a fucking fascist

For real. People with vision should be able to make movies even especially if those movies seem ridiculous at the time.

Ah yes, I'm glad my mom did this to me as well.

no

so you literally can hear some girl shitting her ass off, huh?
that's europa for you

...

Gender is a spook and should be addressed as such. In that sense if you have a penis and want to wear a dress and tell people your name is Loretta then go for it, nobody has the right to tell you not to. If you run around screaming "TRANS AND PROUD CIS PEOPLE ARE GROSS RITE TUMBLR??!!?" then you are cancer.

I like how all these convey is that trans people are untreated schizos

...

It looks like Holla Forumsintelpro found the thread.

A sex change is a drastic life decision. Hence why I haven't made it. A gay friend took me to a male strip club because I told him about being confused (and I am absolutely not attracted to him! He's not my type. I'm picky). And he introduced me to some really hot male strippers and I just had no desire to do anything with them. Even though my gay friend offered to loan me cash if necessary. Whereas if I'm in a strip club with female dancers, I want to fuck the female strippers. So you'd think "ok you're straight" but it doesn't end there.

I fantasize about male strippers but in the fantasy I'm a hot girl. Wearing the kind of dress that you would to a night club. And I have my legs crossed (clean shaven) in the front row seductively. With this attitude of "oh yeah I'm hot and sexy. And horny." I'm looking at the male stripper seductively (tall, ripped, muscular black male. Well-endowed). I shout "woooo" at him and clap along to get his attention. He then comes over to me and I rub my hands (with black/dark red nailpolish) over his abs and then I roam my hands down to his penis. And then I stroke him a bit before performing fellatio on him in front of everyone. And then the girls in the audience are either like "whoooo" or "get a room slut."

Meanwhile my gay friend introduced me to a male stripper who was just my type and I had no desire. Because it's just not the same.

I don't really care what any adult does to them self.
I'm more worried by the late stage capitalism rhetoric we see here.
Just a few years ago pseudo-intellectual liberals were going on about how gender is a social construct, there is no difference between men and women, just how we're socialised.
Now its all about "my brain is the other gender to my body, so I'm going to embrace the socialised differences"
There is no real consistency to their arguments. I have autism, I accept that I have a disorder. I don't get disability pride shit - it's a barrier, not something to be celebrated. I do my best to overcome it and I'm ok with that.
I'm concerned that we're seeing a mental condition here that should be accepted, but not celebrated. I mean - realistically, what is there here to be celebrated?
Self pride world wide I suppose.

ED is 9 years out of being out of relevancy. I don't understand what the point of caring about it in any way should be necessary for anyone.

I remember when ED was just a comedy site.
It turned into a profile data base of lolcows. Lost its appeal when it just became people with personal grudges having edit wars.
Final straw for me was when they made two Trump articles. For a site known for shitting on everyone, the Holla Forumsack insistence that they have a pro-Trump page was embarrassing.

The "mentally ill" argument does not apply and shouldn't be posted here because half of you are mentally ill, you just believe in applied eugenics/social darwninism in a tabloid way, the most visceral.

You know

Like a mentally ill person

"UGH! YOU MAN! YOU ONLY WANT TO FUCK! HERE! THIS YOU LIKE TO FUCK, RIGHT? UGH! YOU NOW FUCK THIS!"
It doesn't always work this way…


Well, you know what the wise sniffing man says about fantasy, right?
"we need fantasy to sustain libido, a fantasy realized is a nightmare"

Soo… You could try to roleplay your fantasy, dress up, play the role, be the role, cause ofcourse it's not the same, unless you are the role… … but be aware!

Then again, am no psychologist, and you may want to ask one.

I can only speak for myself but my dysphoria is more to do with the sex of my body than gender roles/norms, meaning that physical transition is similar to medication for other mental illnesses. I personally don't agree with the trans community's current rhetoric that it's not a mental illness or that it's something to be celebrated, I just want to get rid of the pain and live my life. Acceptance to me is therefore just being treated as an actual person and not be a leper in society because of a mental disorder out of my control
imo gender is some spooky shit that needs to be abolished (and I would hope that accepting trans people right now while it does exist doesn't stop this) but until we can fix sexual differences, there will be trans people.

it's the classic
vs
double standard that a lot of people who claim to be trans but just do it for idpol brownie points fall into.

to

sage for double post

I feel genuine sympathy for your pain… But until we have some miracle drug that will transform your body entirely, I cannot accept people who have hormone treatment or surgery as the gender they claim to be. I'll be polite and refer to you as you prefer - I mean, why be a dick about it - but… You aren't physically and I won't pretend you are.
Sorry friend, life fucking sucks.

How does the public have the responsibility to differentiate between official and unofficial when only medicine has the answer for it?

It's not the responsibility of the public at large to democratically hold a stance on a medical issue on either side of the aisle

We have seen how this goes

Tabloid equivalent. Celebration of trans individuals for the negative or positive, paying attention to everything they do because its funny, and the people who get furious about this and in engage in similarly awful behavior.

In the end all of you are fucking stupid.

It isn't your responsibility and you should fundamentally have no opinion negative or positive on medical issues.

You are not a fucking medical professional.

You complain about social justice warriors going on witch hunts, but when you go on witch hunts for the same people why should I accept EITHER of you when at the end your interest is in yourself and your social groups?

Not in the actual medical problem in the first place.

Could it be, it's not actually the trans community, but some bourgie kids that want to be "edgy" or "Revolutionary" without actually doing anything?

You know.. Like the pepsi ad.

Also, if only people out there were thinking as you…

They took the gender meme too far.

They still shouldn't be oppressed, though.

Along with regular faggots, these are some of the least capacity revolutionary material imaginable. I am sorry to say it out loud but these mentally and physically unfit fucking faggots need to be purged, plain and simple purged.

We are not living in a post scarcity society and we never will with this tempo. Limited resources imply priorities, hierarchies, hardcores first, casuals last. Lenin took the Red Square with only 1000 people, but these are the best of the best. Mao started out his adventures with 60k, and ended with just 9k, but these were all hardcore blood drenched revolutionaries.
Red Army had to have ranks to maintain operational command and control, and it had to have that to achieve strategic goals.

All authority and legitimacy comes from force and nothing but force. Force to politics is what numbers are to mathematics, atoms to chemistry, etc. Want space communism? You want maximum total force. Want maximum total force? You want fucking Spartans, SS, you want eugenics, you want standards, you want strict rules, you want fitness, strength, cunning, brutal efficiency and nothing else.

Sorry but you cant have fun before space communism. Utopians need not reply.

id's a trab :DDD:DD-D

Unlike Chan nerds, who are ready to fight for everyone's well being and are totally sane and good at strategy and reasoning.

I see you learned everything politically from the starship troopers film and thinking Sun Tzu could solve everything in life

nature.com/articles/srep18634

Also, what the fuck is a hardcore lmfao

Idpol cancer like "trans" is nothing more than neoliberal capitalism forming itself as cultural degeneration

A medical diagnosis is not capitalism it is a medical diagnosis and it is not for the public to deal with democratically.

GET A JOB TRANNY FAGGOTS
WORKERS OF THE WORLD, UNITE!!!

Transexuals probably have more jobs than the entire posting base of Holla Forums itself

This looks like some absurd reddit strawman parody of us. What's funny about this is that we don't need to strawman reddit to reveal their hypocracy.

The trans "movement" is but trans people like all people are made up of reactionary class enemies an comrades alike

why are you saying "workers of the world unite" while alienating other workers with your spooks?

are you retarded. work on solving those spooks, come back when you grow the fuck up homie.

/r/socialism is a factually retarded authoritarian-monitored negative space where 0=1 and retardation runs rampant. As is all of r*ddit
CATGIRLS UNITE

BPP had their revolutionary theory right when it came to this. I'm not a fan of the pan-African Maoism, but goddamn if they didn't organize the lumpen for class struggle.

But isn't a trans-woman almost always conforming to capitalist perception of femininity?

gender is capitalist perception period.

Here's an idea: don't turn their identity into a political question.

You feel like you were born the wrong gender? Ok.
You feel like you were born the right gender? Ok.

Use whatever bathroom you want. Marry whoever you want. Just help me seize the fucking means, brah.

why capitalist perception of femininity? Patriarchal maybe.

Personally I would like to be a housewife or a kept woman. A sugar baby. Mistress. Whatever. But I just hate wage cucking and I prefer being in a more domestic role. Has nothing to do with conforming to gender roles. Not all M to F transwomen think the same.

I want to be a girly girl because that's just what I want to be. It's not because I'm oppressed by the evil patriarchy.

I also have no desire to submit to a man outside the bedroom. I just don't understand how trading dependence on one man (husband) for another (porky) is really all that empowering. If my husband treats me like a slave, I'm going to divorce him and take half his shit, take the house, garnish his paycheque and find a new boyfriend.

You are an example of why the public shouldn't talk about medical issues

You are an example of why the public shouldn't talk about medical issues

how many fucking times must we be over this on this board

what sustains cultural patriarchy - should it exist?

go back to tumblr

Honestly I wouldn't be against the public mode of speech being censored on highly sensitive medical issues

I hate them as much as I hate you don't worry.

self loathing drives us all, doesnt it

am i wrong? what is this ideal woman that mtfs seek to be? what is an ideal person at all? what is an ideal?

trick question; all capitalist spooks to get you to buy shit lmao

not to say that transpeople are just making shit up about their dysphoria etc. i'm just highly critical of how we perceive gender at all under capitalism

The democritization of how people with an affliction should or should not be treated by anyone outside of the medical community is complete bane

You are wrong and have no authority. You are wrong because you have no authority.

Do not speak outside of what you are specialized, and I have no doubt you are specialized towards very little indeed.

Probably, it seems that a lot of the shit you see on reddit (eg: the catgirl and "ableist slurs" shit) and idpol twitter is exactly that - bourgie college kids trying to be "revolutionary" by doing things that don't exactly take a lot of effort and that they can claim as "helping" groups like ours. Ultimately, it just does more damage and further contributes to our bad standing in society as people turn against trans people as a whole instead of these bourgie fuckheads.

..i'm not giving or denying transpeople anything. this same criticism goes for non-transpeople too

Follow your own advice and lay off politics, tumblrina

This is the exact problem that falls under my speciality you Prickly flagged anarcho dork

t. a mentally ill person on Holla Forums

what?

Cutting parts of your body off or altering your hormone balance isn't medical treatment. It's malpractice. Mental health treatment and learning to accept yourself is more beneficial. Now, if you want to dress like a woman, go ahead, but no doctor should be practicing medicine if he's going to cut parts of you off.

It is, it doesn't matter how you feel about it.

Your feelings in the grand scheme of things do not change official stance.

Read it again until you get it.

you specialize in nothing, as students tend to do

not to mention for profit education has little to add towards ones general knowledge or experience on a subject - you're not smart for regurgitating 12 weeks of powerpoint slides

ps not every ancom is Prickly I thought we were over this
pretty sure he's fucking dead from ODing on some next retarded drug considering I havent seen Prickly tier retardation here in a while

to be clear, i agree with this post. i'm not sure why or even how really you're upset with mine. seems like you're just projecting shit other people say onto me

...

I specialize in emergency medicine I'm majoring in you specialize in being rejected job interviews

It could be. My mistake.

hoochie ily never stop posting

kek

so you're a student

also lmao how full of shit can you be, emergency medicine to deal with what on psychotics? You bring in trans people in need and bring them into neuro or psych wings, they spend minimal time in emerg

Yes. I'm like a leper in a leper colony except more qualified to talk on the subject you're griping about

never change anarcho communists never change

no youre not

t. ofa
i work in a resident hospital

come at me, amerilard

emergencypsychiatry.org/

Read up fam :)

I doubt you're even qualified for hospice

...

...

What argument

Even if I was making an argument my point still stands it is not for the public to tell medicine how to provide for its patients.

The public has no say and will have no say, it is completely authoritarian, there is no room for error.

do you know what ofa's are?

you've had no argument and have continuously tried to play appeals to authority - whatever authority it is - that you think you have

what emergency medicine do you deal with as far as psych goes

True. The public need not try understanding and playing democracy in regards to their feelings of medicine.


People who cannot care for themselves, suicide attempts, and people who are severely depressed or otherwise incapable of functioning in society properly without risk of permanent quality of life damage and or future suicide attempt.

you're a fucking phone operator by that definition - to hear peoples words, treat extra nice before putting them in a psych wing

Do you know what ofas are? I'm your first line of safety for all individuals in workplaces - before paramedics. You've told me nothing thus far to make me believe you're any more authorized to deal with depressives than I am

hahahahaha are you joking

Do you know what inpatient is?


hahahahaha dude never change. You're certainly a medical professional with such casual disregard to the gravity of mental health being severe

I bet you don't even know how to care for your own goddamn sprained ankle

OFA my ass

Let me link you back

internal patient care


my field has me focusing on physio in work camp actually

answering no questions styllz

y u so depserate to prove yourself to internet nerds? fail a class recently?

I think the only person who can fully comprehend your rants is yourself

if you are the authority on official medicine then it takes WebMD to match and the public can democratically decide what it likes

im very excited to see the cis gulag tbh

Know, in the mental health context, you fucking never worked in a hospital


Good god

Holy fucking shit the public has all been given medical degrees thanks to WebMD why am I just hearing of this?

?????

inpatients are under hospital care within campus grounds

outpatients are returning visitors and/or visited by available services and staff

what special inpatient definition does burgerland have?

Why would anyone wear an anarchocom flag when this and prickly are the levels they're associated with

because if you knew your personal qualifications were publicly available your professors couldnt continue ripping dollars off you kek

If someone is in inpatient for a suicide attempt they are held for over a week or more.

The same goes for people who cannot care for themselves

It can be voluntary, or involuntary.

so theyre held in hospital obviously

literally nothing I've said is wrong then

are you drunk?

WebMD does not actually give you an accurate diagnosis nor does WebMD have anything to do with the public being able to hold positive or negative views on a neutral medical diagnosis democratically

You are not educated nobody educated in the way you claim would ever make this argument

Fucking dullard

you must be drunk, you dont seem to differentiate when I'm shit talking your personal education or not

Everything you said is wrong. Nothing you've said is right.

You couldn't help with a broken arm you can't well enough keep someone from killing themselves and treat why they came to such a place and accurately diagnose and medicate

Just stick to 8can and quit your job

Where did you get that idea? WebMD?

I think there's more to mock some sort of OT anyways. Stay in your field.

You're a fucking architecture major. Shut up about shit you have no idea about.

hoochie how do I stop wanting to kill myself if you know about that

What the fuck lol where did I ever say that


Want to talk Art Deco then?

Go to a medical professional. Get some help.

Or listen to ancom here and go to WebMD lmfao

I'm not an OT and I don't deal with them


I can reposition and splint pls any medical scrub can do this - which is why I doubt you can

Hey do you know where there appropriate pressure points for limb bleeds are? No googling now.

And I actually can't get in trouble for restraining a sick individual from harming themselves so hey

That's what you seem to imply every time you discuss shit and you seem to be completely ignorant of science. On might assume things. You don't come off as the STEM type.

Sure, but what is the most communist architecture?

wtf does any of that have to do with gender

My job is medicine, not science.


How do people come off, do they change depending on if they are or are not STEM?

I think we're kinda way off track with that breh read the rest of the thread

What does this have to do with mental health issues and the public

No, just shut up lol

Limb bleeds go

You have a overdosing worker in camp of which you have no idea what they're consumed - they hold a knife and are yelling of suicide, what do?

Gogogo, ms educated

You probably get them to throw up and hold them under 24 hour observation to see what exactly is wrong with them and go from there depending on what the authorities have or have not done regarding the individual.

You've ignored my initial situation and skipped antire sections of how to do with suicidial individuals HOW THE FUCK DO I FORCE AN ARMED OVERDOSING MAN TO PUKE

YOU ARE LITERALLY REGURGITATING POWERPOINT SLIDES

I hope you spend a while as a para because that shit will appropriately bring you back to earth

christ almighty hoochie

The authorities deal with it first who send them to a medical professional/hospital because they're sick.

That's how it works

Are you sure you work in a hospital? I don't.

And I know how to deal with this better than you do, and you're setting up this random situation.

Don't type in caps it makes you look desperate.

LITERALLY

LITERALLY

POWER POINT

Dear lord.

When they are completely ignorant of basic science or spout shit that those who did study this would never say, then one can assume they're not involved in science.

everybody stop fighting i got a question:

does masculinity have a role in the revolution? and adding to that, is masculinity a statistically significant force when it comes to individual physical and mental strength? discuss

Medicine is a science but I hardly see it that way it's so separated in the states. It depends if its actual application or medical science and research


I don't know, sounds like most STEM majors to me

I wonder what fucking hoochie in the ass feels like.

Not really. You can't load an army of beef cakes and win, it just doesn't work like that.

Strategy is better than strength.

Physical strength no longer matters.

Salty milk and coins

bags of sand

...

On this note for whoever is reading on;

Appropriate answers for excited, inebriated (why whatever substance) individuals is calm conversation - successfully disarming such an individual is dangerous and unlikely to result in harm to both you and them. It sounds stupid, but you can't like, jump them and finger their throat to puking like ms student here wants you to think

The major pressure points to slow bleeding on limb bleeds, as I asked ms dipshits, are on the brachial above your elbow, on the inside of your elbow you can feel for your own artery for the beat.

For bottom limbs, your femoral pressure point is in the angle of your leg, between thigh and crotch, basically. There too you can feel a beat.

just sage when talking to this cunt please

Again that is for the authorities

You didn't read my post.


This isn't metal gear

that's not my job, it's the job of onsite staff, hypothetically in this situation if it ever came to that.


Again this isn't metal gear

Thanks for the martial arts tips

Nobody is safe from the Cis fagi

So you don't know what an OFA is because
a) youre a student who doesnt know shit
b) I've told you im professional onsite staff already

I've been honest, you've just had no clue what
I'M
talking about

Are you drunk?

i do think that, to a certain extent, the stereotype about leftist communities not being dedicated to strength is actually pretty accurate. I think there is something to be said for personal discipline for the sake of individual strength. I guess whether or not a bunch of egoist liftiers would be an effective revolutionary force is up for debate

Why do people care about this? I don't get it. In what way does this affect you personally?

It isn't up for debate. They wouldn't accomplish anything.

Kinda!

Again, what;s an OFA

What do those three letters stand for, m'dear?

more like bofa

kk im goin to bed sleep tight

hope whatever you're drinkin is delish

wait so people really dont want to shoot their load on 3.14qt tgirls? Any hawt tgirl who wants full communism is a comrade.

omg you're such a sinner

not all issues relating to identity are idpol
there's a huge difference between advocating for trans issues and saying retarded shit like "we need more trans CEOs!"
there is a lot of porky influence in identity issues but that doesn't make real identity issues inherently porky shit

Good post.

Why do trans people always visualise themselves as little children?
I will never learn someones pronouns and I don't give a crud if that is un-marxist

Literally why not though. Is it a principled thing? If so, lighten up.

It's like if someone was called Robert and they were like "Hey, can you call me Bob? I prefer Bob" and you were like "Fuck you no".

...

Testosterone is needed for critical thinking under pressure. Physical strength and endurance is needed for foot soldiers.

No traps allowed

I would use Sophie Labelle, known crazy tranny, as an example of all trannies.

...

Traps are literally a manifestation of male alienation and way too much pornography.Traps only exist on the internet.If you've ever met a "trap" irl it's just a faggy dude dressing up.

Jerking off to traps is not gay.Their boipuccis bouncing on your dick irl is hella gay tho.

but what kind of man doesn't wish he was a woman?

you post anime, you're nazbol. leads me to think that you're actually a transexual (or femboy) in denial. You have repressed homosexuality (or bisexuality) there but the spooks in your mind keep you in mental jail.

it's this easy tbh

What I never got about them is how they say that they seemingly genetically identity with another gender, and want to look that way, but at the same time these genders and their norms are given to them by society. This my eyes looks like they were de facto socialised into being transsexual, which means that there is a social cause, or am I wrong?


Also what I don't get is why people always complain about masculinity and cis-normatively, while at the same time practically imply that femininity and being trans is normal. Isn't the whole point that there is no "normal"? Why do they always assume a person forces himself to be masculine?


What if we say there are mentally ill and should be helped?

Have you tried exercising and removing yourself from your daily intake of media and company? What is your family life like? Do you do drugs? Think of taking yourself out of the picture, get away from the clubs, the company you keep and the the media you consume. Do so for 3 months and your identity will come to truthfulness. I say this with good intentions.

idk, maybe ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's 99% idpol cancer. Read Zizek. thephilosophicalsalon.com/the-sexual-is-political/

I don't understand transgender people either, but what should I hold against them?
The only thing this has to do with politics - for me - is, that being left means to accept other people as long as they don't violate my basic moral standards.
Sure, the group of transgender people (affectionately called "they" in this thread) includes assholes. But so does the group of blonde people. Why make a distinction based on sexual identity? Why the negativity?


best "negative" point in this thread.

Maybe, but that's what I do not understand either. My impression is that transgender people want to be another stereotype than the one they were born with. That's not a statement, I just don't understand what "being a man" or "being a women" could mean besides stereotypes. I'm a man, I can't imagine how I would be different if I was a woman. Especially if gender really is a social construct.


Exactly. Can anybody answer this for us?

This. No gender = no problems.
Gender abolitionism is the only true way.
Seriously though the line between being "against idpol" and being reactionary seems to be thinning here lately.
Soon people going to be praising Stalin for banning homosexualism as a "mighty strike against bourgeous idpol." Or that they are mentally ill and should be cured and that normalizing homosexuality is just an evil porkie plan.

I'm only in this thread to see boy bum and so far I am very disappointed.

It's not like he is really againsts transgenders or trans movement in it though.

There are a few trannies who recognize and accept that they have a mental illness.

The rest are all delusional morons who are victims of snowflake culture.

Yes

No

Sure the resent converts from Holla Forums were beneficial to us, right guys?

Probably much more beneficial than the faggot degenerates that ruined the leftism brand after decades of insidious idpol that lead nowhere.

Is nobody going to comment on the fact that OP starts off by mentioning trannies, but then switches to traps? Those are two different things.
Trannies = Faggots who want to cut off their dick and balls
Trap = Faggots who want to keep their dick and balls

That's not how that works you mong

>>>Holla Forums

Totally not Holla Forums guys.

What would you be happier as?

Ignore the bullshit from people who have some preconceptions of what is right or wrong. You should pay attention to both your inner voice and the reality of your features & body type.

If you are 6'3" with broad shoulders and strong features, do what you can to avoid the temptation of transitioning. You will probably be really unfulfilled in life.

If you are 5'3" with a skinny body, then you were given difficult cards as a male in our society. Transitioning might make a hell of a lot more sense.

Whatever you say fam

Plus the vast majority of them kill themselves so its kinda like you are saving them the trouble.

might be mincing my words here, but, well

people should generally be allowed to present themselves as whatever gender they like. whatever the ideal society is, that'll be part of it. in the meantime, trans people esp get the short stick at best in life and heavy handed bigotry at worst - if we're going to focus on raising all humanity up from the gutter, they're as much a part of that as anyone

Wew lad

I'd kill those faggots with my dick if you catch my drift ;)

I think you have presumed both those posts were by the same person.

They were not. One was me.

And my point was actually the opposite.

I said no point in gassing them because they are likely to kill themselves anyway.

Now that's a revolutionary spirit.


Well, whatever. You both seem to share your dislike for transgenders and their struggles anyway.

Sounds like mental disease
Sounds like light form of the same disease. Why is it a mental disease if i'll consider myself as Hiltler but man considering him as a woman and vice versa is absolutelly well?

So because I dont want to gas them that means I dislike them?
That is some backwards logic.


I dont dislike them. Its tragic. Like that woman who disowned her own leg and wanted to get it amputated even though there was nothing physically wrong with it.

Live and let live.

This thread is cancer as usual. Just don't delve into it, its not worth your time. Let the medical professionals figure this shit out.

Yea but right now some people are arguing its not even a mental illness.

I would go further and say nearly all "mental illness" is purely social construction. Every word in "mental illness" is false. It's not simply "mental" but inseparable from the society in which it's defined, and it's not an "illness" in the typical sense of the word. It's not that the brain doesn't help to produce the "illnesses" in question, but that psychological questions are viewed determinately and mainly individually rather than socially. Marxists should generally reject most, if not all, contemporary psychological categories.

I want to keep my dick, but not my balls, what does that make me 🤔

It sounds like you havent witnessed people with severe schizophrenia or something like that. Its really tragic. These people are in continual discomfort and pain and theres nothing externally that can change it.


There are shades of grey in mental illness for sure. But there is a line and some people are on the wrong side of it.

An eunuch?

You are going to another extreme, there are actual serious mental illnesses like severe chemical schizophrenias or depressions, etc, or maybe even epilepsy counts.
The problems that people count every deviation from the norm as an "illness", not that "mental illnesses" don't exist at all.

Absolutely.


No because their problems have to be fixed by Psychiatrist.

I have. Don't assume things you know nothing about.

"Schizophrenia" acts as a semi-justification of contemporary psychology and psychiatry, but it really doesn't. "Schizophrenia" and "bipolar" are often confused by psychologists in a clinical setting, even when it's "clear" to us in the abstract.

And how do you know you aren't? You offered nothing but an emotive plea and accusation.


We're on a board for far leftist thought on a website associated with neo-Nazis. Does going to "extremes" really bother you? This is a silly objection.

No one's disputing insanity and madness exist (as behavior outside the current "norm," anyway). I'm disputing the way in which we think about it.

The brain works by way of electrochemical impulses so any statement about "chemical" psychological disorders is necessarily true. You're telling me nothing I don't already know.

daily reminder that stalin kidnapped little starving Ukrainian boys during the holodomor and forced them to dress up as lolis while he threw crumbs of bread at them

I'm starting to figure out why Tankies are so fucking paranoid about Counter-Revolutionaries and Co-opters.

By "extreme"" I ment "ignorant maximalism", not "so xtreme bruh".
But you just did, considering they definetly could be considered as "illnesses" and considering that "insanity" and "madness" are even more of a meme vague terms than the ones you described by a margin.
By chemical I ment the ones caused just by internal chemical disbalance and not by external factors and which can only be cured by medication. It doesn't matter really.
It's just dumb to dismiss all the actuall scientific knowledge in the area of mental health just because the area in general has a lot of vague and ideological shit in it.

Its hard when you keep proving to me through your statements that you know nothing about it.

can anyone give me a TL;DR on the shitshow and the arguments presented in this thread

I don't feel like wasting my time reading all this

Is this the actual comic? Or is this edited? Because I feel like screaming, grabbing your child's head, cupping their ears, and frantically repeating "don't listen" over and over again like you're having a panic attack because you think your child might be triggered by something is 100xs more traumatizing then just letting your child ignore the news like any 9-year-old would do anyway. Is this what having an idpol Liberal for a parent is like?

Then you're merely being presumptuous. My mistake.

The former is legal while the latter is an historically neutral term for it. "Mental illness" is a recent coinage based on the current paradigm in psychology which I've said I don't agree with, and "psychological disorder" carries a similar bias to a lesser degree although I still use it for lack of much better. If you can't see why I'd use those terms, you're beyond ignorant.

These things aren't separable. No "disorder" develops in a social vacuum deprived of all "external factors." A "disorder" doesn't even exist without "external factors" because it is defined as a being a "disorder" or "illness" by there being the external factor of society.

I'm dismissing it just like I'd dismiss the idea that overproduction of black bile causes depression, another widely believed idea in the history of psychology.


You haven't yet demonstrated you know anything about the topic in question.

How can I know nothing about my own statements? Do you even know what you're saying? You're just throwing out random accusations.

Idpol won't be a problem if any one of the Anarchy schools of thought succeeds.

No Gods, No Masters.
It's very simple:

No state, no gun pointed to your head.

So if idpol Tumblrites want to have their own organized communities, they are free to do that.

If however, they started implementing militias and create a "sinner tax" for anyone who isn't a demisexual transgender with a dragon soul, then they have become another version of the state.
That's when the Tankies get to have some fun blasting their spooks all over the concrete, State Capitalism is implemented, we build up infrastructure until we reach Post-Scarcity, transfer back into anarchist society, and establish council coalitions that agree to BTFO any further attempts by tyrants to take back the means of production from us.

tl;dr Hoochie Minh is a raving lunatic who slips into fantasies about being a doctor and wants everyone to shut up so the professionals (her) can have a monopoly on this question

No, Assigned Male is unfortunately real, its the worst transgender web comic in existence. There are soo much better one's.

Oh Peebles, why can't every tripfag be as good natured and lovable as you?

these seem a lot better, what's the name of this comic?

Actually, no. 50% of Holla Forums has always been shit on this issue, with many of the same bigoted views as Holla Forums, and you can see that in this thread.

There are gender norms.

These aren't actually that bad to read.
You know what? I actually think I figured out the problem:

The OP comic gets in front of your face and is directly confrontational with the reader. The "DON'T LISTEN" word bubbles scattered all over the page is the comic equivalent of [autistic screeching]. No wonder it's so easy for reactionaries like Holla Forums to take this and come to the conclusion of gassing them or Tankies wanting to run them over.

These three comics have a better presented message and it's not stand-offish.

wat

Let me try one last time:

Your statements made it seem like you know nothing about mental illness. Which was the subject at hand.

trap = passing, male genitalia, attractive
transgender = switching genders
transsexual = switching genders + usually switching sex

Transgender is the umbrella term meaning someone who transitions and goes on hormones. Transsexual is a more dated term that today is more likely to mean someone who wants a sex change as well. Trap is an imageboard term that is more male-oriented to refer to transgenders who are cute, look like a woman, and have a penis/male genitalia…which is the combination that 95% of men into transgenders want.

What do you call it when a man looks like a woman (or vice versa) but its not deliberate. Like they arent trying to be a trap.

To a certain extent, but you need to be careful not to cross gender with biological sex.

This isn't a human psychological construct thing, they've given toy trucks and baby dolls to Chimpanzees and the girls always picked up the dolls and coddled them and the males all played with the trucks.

There were parents that raised a biologically male baby as a girl and scientists came to the conclusion that "gender is entirely a social construct" from this kids life, but then the kid reached 10 years old and wanted to be treated like a biological boy, then he killed himself when he reached highschool years.

Plus the disparity in the Nordic countries being the most gender equal countries on planet earth, and yet they have the largest differences between the genders.

I hate anything that deals with genetics, it's dangerous fire to fuck around with.

I also think that "psychological disorder" sounds better, but it's just semantics. "Mental illness" still makes more sense than a fucking "madness".
The thing is - brain is an organ, just as a kidney. It can get "ill", just like kidney can for example.
Just cut the bullshit, you know what I mean. There is a differense between your cat dying and you getting depressed and your chemical balance getting fucked and causing depression. It's a pragmatical definiton, despite "it's all just chemistry dude".
In any case there are actuall brain illnesses that you can't just dismiss by "external factors of society" just you can't with an illness of any other part of body. If you have seizures or halucinations or literally any other serious shit which causes big problems in your life, whatever the external factors of society are, then it's indeed an illness which is beneficial to have cured.
Are you literally dismissing all the scientific knowledge on mental health? If so this is beyond fucking retarded.

Yeah, I was reading that comic thinking that whatever the fuck this was about, the point was to make fun of the mother.

It's also funny that 30 years ago, a comic like this would have been making fun of a conservative mother who didn't want her to kid to hear metal lyrics or something like that.

This kid is the famous anecdotic meme that every fucking person who thinks "gender=sex" uses as a "checkmate trannies". As if it was made with a perfect human male example living in a fucking vacuum.

That would be androgyny or gender ambiguity.

I agree, but I was responding to someone that I think was implicitly attempting to completely separate sex from gender.

A healthy society would have gender norms, which actually relate to human desire. There is no question that modern Western culture has its rigidities with gender norms, but genderqueers as a general rule are people who are setting themselves up for a lifetime of sexual isolation, and usually have other major psychological issues

There is a difference between these two.

I used it as an example because I think these psychopath Idpol parents that are giving their 6 year olds estrogen hormones are abusing their children.

in the west, there doesn't need to be a 'movement' for choosing to dress or behave in a certain way. this is pure nonsense

maybe in countries where homosexuality is still criminalised it has some validity. but even then the notion that transsexuals need their own peculiar brand of rights or dispensation in order to be not be punished or killed is absurd; the application of basic human rights will also cover transsexuals. it's like these people see themselves as a separate species or something; as though the laws and protections afforded to everyone else in society just aren't good enough for the special snowflake crew. special rules for special people

people really need to stop dignifying this kind of mania and disordered thought. it's dangerous and honestly really fucking annoying

Yes and no. The legal muh privileges that were given to blacks in American society like affirmative action are ridiculous and unjust, but if blacks or any other group wish to begin a discussion about the ways in which they are being treated unfairly, that is completely appropriate.


And a number of transgenders do get killed each year.

Who gives a shit, let the trannies do whatever they want so long as they won't help porky when we're after him.

And it's a meaningless accusation, although at least one can parse it this time. What's the point in throwing around random accusations like this? Where have you evidenced any knowledge of psychology? So far you've only evidenced ignorance of English.


I always like "you know what I mean." It means the formulation wasn't correct in the first place.

So the depressive reaction to a cat dying isn't chemical? Or it is distinct from the "chemical balance" of depression? Is this true universally? Have you known no one who has slipped into depression because of something we might regard as fairly trivial like a pet dying? Your point doesn't make sense to me.

That aside, "chemical balance" has become one of those empty phrases in the popular understanding of psychology. Balanced for whom and in what sense? What chemicals are we "balancing" here? Serotonin? How are we balancing it? With what? Is it the same "balance" we're aiming for universally or just in particular for one person? How do we know the proper balance for an individual? All of these questions are glossed over in the phrase "chemical balance." With how we use it, we might as well be talking about chi. It's just a covert way of implying a psychological norm which is "balanced."

For a pragmatical definition, it has so many problems it's hardly usable.

Seizures aren't mental disorders. Hallucinations (both visual and auditory) by themselves aren't considered mental illness within the current psychiatric paradigm, actually, unless they're to such a degree that they interfere with functioning within society.

So, what, if I'm too lazy to do homework, this is an "illness which is beneficial to have cured?" It's "serious shit which causes big problems" in life, so one would think so, based on what you're saying.

I've pointed to what I accept before. There's no doubt the brain presents behaviors which are classified as "mental illness," but "mental illness," and, more generally, all madness, is always defined by the norms of the society in which they're created.

Human desire mostly relates to "feminity" and "masculinity". Gender norms just constrain people from being able to pick the desirable place for themselves on that scale, and usually add other constraints to it.

by the state?

...

trans-lucid

translucidcomic.com/

Unfortunately they don't post much there days. Fuck fact tho, back in the day, they were like THE tg transformation artist. But then they kinda just broke one day.

At least he came.

Yes, exactly.


There is no question that a given society's gender norms are constraining, but they relate to groupings of characteristics corresponding to human desire. Genderqueers usually separate themselves from that on the idea that attraction is purely a social construct, and it is not.

By prejudice against them. Go back and read my post before we get into some type of strawman debate.

Can't anyone answer these questions? It's hard to accept trans-struggle if it makes no sense.

Because you seem to not be able to comprehend things in context so I had to try to expalin shit to you that was irrelevant to the discussion, yet you still seemed to sperg out talking how "relative" everything is.
Seriously I'm tired of arguing with your autistic walls of text. You clearly show some completely ignorant post-modernistic view without any actual knowledge on how brain works.
If you don't understand how chemical balance in human body works and what you need to be able to effectively function in the human society and in life in general, nor how you brain is an organ that can have a serious disorders just like any other part of your body and that such cases need to be adressed and cured as such, then I can't really help you.

it's not a debate. my point was transsexuals are not deliberately killed by the state, and are in fact protected by it and the rule of law
in what ways are transsexuals in the liberal west being treated unfairly, and by whom?

Gender dysphoria isn't a democratic issue on either side of the aisle. The public should not have the right to democratically decide what does or does not make sense, because it does make sense, just to people who are informed on it. People who's job it is to diagnose it.

How the internet has handled all of this, has been a colossal failure.

They commit suicide more and are targeted for abuse more and murder and rape more, than mostly any other demographic.

Go figure. The public is the hero taking medicine in its own hands, quite literally.

nice

Do the whole quote, I'm not talking about legal issues.


Or should people not fucking talk if they are being treated unfairly because the laws aren't against them?

...

My bad, I should have said "accept trans struggle as a central and important political issue one should actively fight for" or something like that. Of course I know they experience it that way, that's not the problem.

And I would want to understand it anyway, even if one were to ignore the political dimension behind it.

Milo Stewart?

Source for the manga?

Well human desire also comes in different forms. I think without gender norms we would just have more ways to satisfy them without some exclusive limitations.

citation needed on that one.

yahoo.com/tv/milo-yiannopoulos-fact-check-trans-people-disproportionately-involved-071037564.html

I think it's not that complicated to understand that sometimes the brain fucks up and identifies itself as the opposite sex causing extreme distress to whoever is suffering it. I mean there's not that much to get.

We only "transition" people, really, because the other option of just going drag isn't going to work because of this issue.

So the solution, in the most severe situation where other options have been exhausted, is to transition someone so they aren't even more victim to harassment to worsen their condition into something far worse, and that accounts for the suicide mostly.

The problem is that transitioning doesn't automatically solve that problem.

In 2013 alone the majority of hate crimes were against individuals suffering gender dysphoria, around 72% of them.

It differs each year but the numbers remain consistently high. I also wouldn't use yahoo as a source to cite.

Every trans person I know is at least anti-capitalist

They are comrades

and they believe the state is ignoring this or something? maybe letting alleged rapists and murderers go free? are laws not enforced when it comes to transsexuals?

not at all. they should just explain how they're being treated unfairly and who is doing it. substantiate and justify the claims. not just say "i'm oppressed because i say so and you're an oppressor/bigot/bad guy if you question me"

Kimi Dake no Ponytail

What do you not understand that a group is targeted more often than another, that often means that people are behind bars who did it.

Can dead human beings give eye witness testimony?

Thank you

No, I've just used this as my trip since 2011, afterwards people confused me with Yiannopolous and maybe Stewart now. I thought I had picked a suitably rare name.

Sure, and things can change, but there is no question that it is not infinitely elastic, no matter how delusional for example the fat acceptance movement is.

To give an example sticking with sex, the sexual marketplace value of transwomen drops if they get a sex change. Men are generally interested in biological females with a small minority of men granted, much higher on image boards into traps, but only a tiny sliver of the male population are attracted to post-ops, and this has been true for decades.

No, you said that they murder and rape more. Read your post.

I'm pretty sure you don't have to have such an extreme condition to transition.
I think the fact that you actually want to go through all that transitioning shit and able and ready to take responsibility for it is already a good enough reason, but it's just my opinion and various psychiatrists opinions may vary.

This is a complete strawman. You are wasting everyone's time.

Nowhere did I say what you thought I said

The way you say it makes it sound like it's a mental illness, and that (currently) the only way to possibly cure it is go through with the transition.

So does that mean that this is only a temporary solution, and that medicine or psychology might (or should?) find a more permanent one in the future?

Also why has nobody ever put it this way. It makes much more sense, or so I think

We do not have the medical technology currently to deal with it appropriately.

In mental health, there is no "cure" because we currently do not have the technology to cure anything, all we have is the ability to treat or lessen. We just aren't there yet to deal with magically fixing parts of the brain, we hardly have consensus on which parts of the brain can cause mental health issues because usually it involves a number of factors that can or cannot be related.

So maybe. But I doubt it.

You can't cure someone's depression, you can't reverse a personality disorder etc.

Who are you quoting? I never said "relative" anywhere. I've said repeatedly that what is and isn't a mental disorder is defined within the society in which the disorder is created. That's only "relative" in a certain sense, not every sense or for everything.

You've gone on about "chemical balance" as if it's some mystical dogma. Repeating empty phrases like "chemical balance" doesn't mean you know anything about the brain or psychology for that matter.

As for "actual knowledge," you keep getting even basic things about the paradigm you're supporting wrong. Remember that point about seizures and hallucinations? That was a laugh. Based on what you've written, you don't have any "actual knowledge" of your own position.

You don't understand what it is either, apparently, nor how it works. But, anyway, thanks for entertaining me.

so doesn't that mean the state is doing something about crime against transsexuals?
what? are you saying crimes don't get investigated or prosecuted without the victim giving direct testimony?

just like the case for "trans rights"

What even is your point


No I'm just mocking you because you're beating around the bush.

I think because only a sliver of men attracted exclusively to post-ops. I bet the "why not" percentage is much higher.
Actually never heard about the issue you've talked about. From what I've heard many transwomen get operation just so they can have normal lives and have normal relations and they seem to have no problem finding them if they look good enough. But with a penis there are too much chasers who just want to get an achievment of fucking a dickgirl.

why are transsexuals claiming to be oppressed when there's no evidence to support this claim?
stop oppressing me :( it's really triggering

I just gave you it, what on Earth are you talking about?

It doesn't have to involve the state to be "oppression". I would hardly use the word. It could be the public not understanding how to competently handle a situation.

It is not the job of the public to bring medicine into its own hands democratically.

I fail to see what's not to understand about this. It's cut and dry.

You and the sjws have both caused tremendous damage to just a single medical issue, that in an ideal world, shouldn't be given this amount of attention in the first place. But alas, you have to be angry about something.

Excellent point.

traps are fine

so getting raped and murdered = oppression?

i guess that means all those black youths murdering each other in cities are oppressing each other

they do. which suggests that's what they think
a person's sexual behaviour is not a 'situation' to be 'handled' by the public
i agree. which is why a transsexual's 'feelings,' ideology and disordered thought should not influence medical policy
i'm not angry. i just don't see how transsexuals or anyone else in the homosexual spectrum can seriously consider themselves oppressed

THEY DO WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

I said I wouldn't use oppression, and it means that the public unfairly targets them. I like how you didn't deny it and had to play language games. The difference is that mental health issues can become more severe.

I'm not even going to change this into a race debate.

I'm just going to respond to your post with the point that needs to be driven into your skull


You are not a medical professional, nor are you a student of medicine on the topic, shut the fuck up and quit questioning it because you don't have a right to do so.

You've added nothing of use or showed any bit of knowledge yet again. Go actually read something about brains and what is that mythical "chemical balance" and how brains could get fucked up, and then talk shit about how illnesses all made up by society.
I can't get you to understand how retarded your post-modernist autistic position is anyway.

ITT: people saying they don't hate trans people for being trans but coming up with literally any bullshit excuse to still have animosity towards them (mostly "muh essjaydubya" whining)

Dysphoria is a mental illness, the question of whether transgenderism is a mental illness is contextual.

Most men are grossed out by it. That's sad for women who feel they have to post-op, but it's the truth.


There is that motivation, a terror of discovery, but this is much less true today. Generally people go post-op because they experience a dysphoria with their penis which makes them uncomfortable or extremely uncomfortable with it. Not all MtF transgenders do, maybe half or so. I have the impression that the percentage is going down because more people are transitioning who don't feel genital dysphoria, but I don't know if stats back this up, or if they back it up yet.


Sure, but let's look at what this is honestly. It would be like the homely girl who has massive breasts and a lot of guys want to fuck her, but nobody wants to LTR her. The solution of getting breast reduction, so that you are a homely girl with small breasts, isn't really fixing your most important problem, it's making it worse. That's a harsh analogy because they are guys like myself who are more interested in traps for LTRs than regular females, but there is a central truth there.

Another analogy would be attractive young women who think that men catcalling them or asking them for dates is horrific, when most likely in another 30 years they will be starved for sexual or romantic attention if they are single, and remember fondly the days of their youth.

Eh, I don't know, it just seems from my perspective to talking to transgender people that there are more men who would be against fucking someone with a penis than with a post-op vagina.
Maybe there are some statistics about it.
I think transgenders being forced to have SRS is sad too.

and i implied that whatever word you might use is irrelevant, as oppressed is the word they choose to describe themselves
transsexuals are a minuscule minority. the "public" at large has no exposure to or interaction with them
i don't have to deny something that hasn't been proved
definitions matter when it comes to matters of law and violence
that was an obvious and facetious analogy
try driving a spike into yours first
nor is the average transsexual
nor is the average transsexual
never. the only ones who need to shut up and mind their own business are the whining, paranoid transsexuals
transsexuals don't have a right to dictate how anyone should feel about them or lobby the state to give them special muh privilege

Again, where's this fabled knowledge you've demonstrated? I only see parroted points about "chemical balance" (which you don't understand) and the brain, without any explanation as to what this entails beyond "chemical balance."

It's not even post-modernist. A post-modernist wouldn't accept the brain's involvement in the behavior characterizing "mental disorder" while I've accepted that numerous times. Try again.

And, ironically, your position's more autistic than mine. It refuses to acknowledge society directly and instead reiterates a point about an individual's "chemical balance" ad nauseum.

I don't know if that is true or not, but there are a group of men who would prefer a girl with a penis over one with a vagina, whereas it's only a much, much smaller group of men that would consider a post-op vagina to be better or on a par with that of a genetic female. Traps have their own following which gives them added SMV because they have a penis, whereas maybe post-ops could pull from a broader pool, but they will be lower value in the sexual marketplace relative to a biological female of similar attractiveness.

If you are speaking to transwomen, they are understandably a little delusional on this issue as well. Many of them feel obligated to get SRS because of their dysphoria, hence it's nice to convince yourself that men will like you more. Terms like chaser are mostly used by transsexuals, though I won't deny it's a real problem.

That's exactly what I said, if you're transitioning then you are actually transgender, if you wear your gender like a facebook status you're just SJW cancer.

Seriously I don't even understand anymore what the fuck is your problem is and what do you want from me. I tried to explain why your positon is retarded a numerous times, but every time you just sperg out at the plain basical concepts and take things out of context into a retarded domain of "nothing is an illness nor a normal functioning because they are made up by society". Might as well be talking about liver and liver disorder and it would sound as dumb as it is now.
I see where you are coming from , but your ignorant understanding of it is astounding. I'm tired of your turboautism already, go bother someone else with it.

It should just be part of our general anti-authoritarian agenda. People should be free to do what they like, and that includes trans people.

I'm glad you're here to tell us that huge chunks of modern medicine aren't real medicine. I see now that anti-depressants and anti-psychotics are wrong, and depressed people should just learn to live with their depression. Kids born with cleft palates should learn to love their bodies. People born with missing limbs should never seek evil anti-medicinal prosthetics. Birth control is evil too, since that involves messing with our God-given hormones.

Isn't it de facto a political issue, e.g. the bathroom debate in the US?

But that doesn't matter in this context. I just want to understand why people feel this way and what it means for them.

For this discussion I don't care if it's an illness or not. I just want to know what it means to identify with another gender than the one I see looking down at me. I think I identify as male because I have a penis. If gender really is a social construct, what is the other thing (beside anatomy and social construct) that matters?

There was nothing in that post to respond to beyond vague accusations of ignorance, post-modernism and autism which you repeat yet again in this post. You've concretely demonstrated your own ignorance of contemporary psychology already in the comment about seizures and hallucinations.

That isn't what I said. I said "mental illness" is defined by the society in which it is invented. I've said this many times. You should at least know what you're arguing against.

this is what transsexuals actually believe

Was an example of brain being fucked up as part of an illness, taken out of context.
As is any illness in such context. Either you are retarded enough to deny the concept of illness in general, or retarded enough to deny brain being an organ as any other and thus being able to get ill in the same way.

Hoochie should not be allowed to post more than five times a day, she likes to hear herself talk far too much.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria

is not "I wanna wear dresses"
it is a largely bodily phenomenon. gender is a spook but society being spooked still changes that

Actually people who are mentally ill or have a health issue can lobby for the state to protect them because

It's a fucking health issue

What do you want, fucking Ancapistan?

It is a political issue but it shouldn't be. That's my point.

The realm of health care should be between you and your health care provider and nobody else.

It brings the public in to breach people's privacy, it's not at all worth the risk the internet has made it to be.

Everyone here has one health issue in one way or another, that's just how human beings are, you didn't chose to have it, one part of your body just doesn't function properly. For the public to stigmatize you ala Leprosy or Tuberculosis in the past, should be beyond what we are currently capable of, but I suppose we aren't. My point is, just put yourself in the shoes of someone stigmatized and their flaw politicized for the only reason that people believe it strange.

It's not that great. It's caused endless bullshit on the internet I'm pretty tired of hearing about.

What's worse is gender dysphoria isn't even communicable like Leprosy or Tuberculosis, so there should be no reason such stigma exists in the first place besides the public not being able to handle themselves in a responsible fashion to the better understanding of how the human mind needs to be dealt with medically.

Let's return to it then:
If it has no relation to the point you were making just before about mental illness, then you're talking about them as if the two discrete illnesses in the brain when they're actually symptoms of diseases (or possibly nothing at all in the case of a non-recurring auditory/visual hallucination). You're factually wrong even by your newfound self-interpretation.

Either way, they don't do anything to back up your original point that I was responding to (which was about "mental illness").

You're the only one maintaining that.

False choice. I don't deny the validity of Alzheimer's, for example.

The biggest misunderstanding the public has is that mental health issues indeed can even be cured, and what we have isn't a work around by lessening the impact to the overall quality of life.

People would rather stigmatize psychiatry, neurology, and our better understanding of the brain, in order to perhaps reach a point where brain modification can be possible despite its intricacies, but that opens up an entire other can of worms.

Really, when it comes to mental health issues, it's the last hurdle the public has to have in understanding the body and medicine, it isn't their place to handle what medical professionals have to.

The internet has created hurdles where none need be due to the tabloid like sensationalism of late capitalist culture. It's created a frenzy where none need exist.

the state already 'protects' them as much as it protects everyone else. what they want is the state to make any criticism of their ideology a "hate crime." to forbid anyone to tell them "no" or "you're wrong," because it hurts their feelings and they might attempt suicide over it

I'm assuming you're against all reconstructive surgery based on the same principle then
Stop being such a spooked faggot.

I fully agree, but your answer didn't help me to relate to the situation more, tbh. Thanks anyway.

this is what transsexuals actually believe

Taken out of context again, but oh well, I explained it already.
I'm just trying to follow your retarded train of thought, isn't it also defined by society from your point?
Also can be said as "defined by society" then.
How is it different from a serious case of schizophrenia for example? It also has a material basis seen on tests as deviating from the norm, it impedes your regular functioning, it is also cured by medicaments. How is one serious brain illness is real and another is made up? Explain to me how are you defining what is valid and what is not? Are you some high authority now or what?
Maybe Alzheimer is not an illness at all after all since there is no normal condition of brain and it's not that different from other "mental illnesses" which are made up.

that's not even how it works you dumb faggot. it's no different than any other reconstructive surgery in practice, principle and function.
again, drop your spooks.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassignment_surgery_(male-to-female)
definitely sounds just like a knee reconstruction or a hip replacement :^)

it's not that different to a skin graft, what you quote itself says it. ofcourse underaged bitches shitposting on the internet wouldn't read it before posting it.
sasuga spooked faggot

Are you supposed to tear open your skin graft every once in a while?

fucking lol

your only hang up is its cuz its genitalia. Male genitalia at that. FtM never exist in the heads of these underaged faggots.
again, reevaluate your spooks son, goodnight.

Context seems to be the last refuge of scoundrels.

I've had to correct you three or four times on very simple points. You're having a lot of trouble following a "retarded train of thought." Perhaps you should have your "chemical balance" checked.

One can point to a proper etiology for every case of Alzheimer's. That is, it is defined by its etiology and not by its symptoms.

Although you like to cite schizophrenia, you should know that, even in contemporary psychiatry, genetic and social factors both play roles in its presentation; that is, the brain doesn't merely present the disorder's behaviors but schizophrenia comes both to be socially activated and socially defined in its particular behavioral effects. It isn't simply a line from brain to "schizophrenia," as you're implying.

Wrong again. There's no cure for schizophrenia. The medical treatments for schizophrenia can be said at best to address its symptoms.

because sex reassignment has nothing to do with sex organs, right? it's not like that's the central component of the concept or anything. we should focus on feet and elbows instead
because they're comparatively rarer and attaching a fake penis is quite different from mutilating a real one and turning it into a permanently open wound, you psycho. not that that makes female mutilation any less unpleasant

...

an open wound by definition hemorrhages you faggot. look up terminology if you want to discuss anything with your betters.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassignment_surgery_(male-to-female)
be more triggered, dickslicer

it does the same for an appendix surgery. is that mutilation now you dumbass?
what are you even doing on leftypol being so spooked?

America has among the worst health and mental health care in the world, the state offers them no protection whatsoever

What the fuck are you on about

Does surgery really give you that much of a head ache?

"mental illness" is a spook. just being too aware of your alienation due to capitalism results in you being "mentally ill"

Expensive ones funded by society do. Lotta people could be getting basic care with those resources.

oh so the police just let all those abusers, rapists and killers of transsexuals you mentioned earlier go free. i guess police and the justice system are ordered to just ignore transsexuals

So you're against expensive surgery? You're not being coherent, that would cut off highly expensive cancer surgery, you just think mental health issues are like a power level where theyre lower than cancer.

Of course they are, they're still health issues.

The public need not and should not politicize and sensationalize health care like you're doing, let medical providers do their job. Stop treating health conditions like tabloids because you think it weird, you're falling back into centuries.

Why don't you stop eating then? There are starving people in Africa.

The same WHO describes it as medically necessary in a lot of cases. You would know this if you actually cared about what the WHO said and not just parroting whatever reinforces your spooks.

No.

That isn't the same as support. That's bare minimum letting it happen without medicine solving the problem of a task that falls under their own jurisdiction.

You're stupid as fuck stop talking

...

Not understanding context is a clear sign of autism friendo.
Yet never presented any knowledge on such points whatsoever.
Just because you can point a cause of one illness compared to another doesn't mean it's more legit.
Just as some illness being closer related to the mechanisms of ones social interaction doesn't make it less legit. It has genetical biological factors, or sometimes physical damage ones as I'm aware, so by all means it is an illness.
It's a brain abnormality that could be seen through medical tests and which impedes persons life. If it had only social factors I wouldn't argue on it being an illness in the first place. Wonder why Alzheimer is still an illness to you since normal brain condition and normal *chemical balance* doesn't seem exist to you.
You are just picking on words outside of context again. I'm not a native speaker so if all your argumentation is going to be based on this I might as well stop.

Totally not a social construct guys.

That's false though. It's been recorded all over the world since nearly as long as records can be actively sought in a large way.

And of course it's discovered when we advance in science and medicine

If you don't trust science and medicine America is the right place for you I presume

lmao

"i want to mutilate my genitals because my brain is malfunctional and produces disordered thought patterns" ≠ medically necessary

transsexuals are not oppressed, disadvantaged or victims, and you can never prove otherwise. cunt

By that logic cancer would be a social construct

I would actually say anyone with a health condition in the united states is oppressed because our health care system is so god damn incompetent that it is actively repressing care from taking place.

Man I love how 'sage' really signals rage on the Internet
El Oh El

I knew Holla Forums were a bunch of fag enablers but this is over the top.

Woops. Sans first link.

You are not above the World Health Organization, indeed HRT is necessary for reasons for men and women medically outside of transitioning.

Medicine is not a democracy, I'm sorry, you cannot make it so and choose what you like and don't like about it.

Welcome to the board

I'm going to label people who actually believe this as just the arbiters of the insurance model of health care, choosing what is and is not provided regardless of evidence both Psychiatry and Neurology have uncovered.

It's no less than creationism.

There are instances of recorded intersex conditions and plenty of incidences of crossdressing in an erotic context, but I know of know historical examples of men or women believing themselves to be trapped in the wrong bodies. Historical figures such as the female pirates who disguised themselves of men are not only not widespread, but they are not transgender, they crossdressed as a disguise; the ISIS members that fled Ramadi recently wearing hijab did not believe they were women, they had a socio-economic reason to disguise themselves.

It's just as much of a spook as lQ, distinct phenotypes and sex.

it's just a dumb hole who should have been banned and sent back to tumblr ages ago

hrt is not physical genital removal

transsexualism is a destructive psychiatric/neurological disorder. retards like you need to stop normalising it and enabling these damaged persons' delusions

Well we have one right here and you can see his autistic rants all over the thread.
I'm geting quite tired of trying to reason him so you can take my mantle if you wish.

That doesn't make it less so. You just said what I just said. It involving sexuality doesn't make it any less so.

You also seem to forget for a time what you ACTUALLY are worried about, the creation of eunuchs was a historical practice, albeit has nothing to do with what this is.

You proved my point and are afraid of what no longer exists.

Stop putting your foot into medicine where it does not belong.

You can't use hyperbole to describe something and deny what health care has already uncovered, again I tell you, medicine is not democracy, your voice is puny, and only making things worse.

You and the sjws are tabloids for health.

there is a difference between recognizing "mental illness" as a spook and claiming people with those conditions referred to as mental illnesses are unworthy of receiving medical treatment to improve their lives

hahahaha christ

Repeated accusations smack of projection.

Human psychology, whether deviant or not, necessarily has genetic, biological and physical factors. Stating that psychological deviance has genetic and biological factors doesn't imply anything beyond philosophical materialism.

Any human interaction involves biological factors in the trivial sense because humans don't exist beyond biology. Biological factors are implicit in the creation of "normal" personalities and behaviors as much as they are aberrant ones.

What's contextual about it? It's just wrong. Schizophrenia isn't even regarded as curable within psychiatry currently.

Like how you stopped at ? But, hey, maybe it'll take this time.

Mental illness is literally not a spook.

Getting hit in the head enough times causing you to be impaired is not a spook. Lead poisoning is not a spook, stress is not a spook,

Observable and repeatable tests are not spooks.

Alienation just makes mental health issues worse, not vice versa as you describe

For fucks sakes you can't "cure" anything related to the brain because of how complex it is, that isn't the job of anyone currently because it doesn't exist.

you're missing the point. although I guess I wouldn't expect a triptard to be able to reason

You're missing the point of alienation's impact on mental health and not the act of alienation creating mental health issues for science to describe out of whole cloth

I say a shotgun mouthwash is a good cure for brain problems, you should try it on yourself, for science.

filtered

I AM A REAL AMERICAN

FIGHT FOR THE RIGHTS OF EVERY MAN

Bye

Depression is usually regarded within psychiatry as curable by antidepressants and psychological care.

Leaving that aside, "curing schizophrenia" was his point, not mine.

You can't fucking cure depression what the hell are you suggesting

Everyone in this thread is monument to my observation the public and medicine don't mix together and never should be allowed to coexist

You are right. There are too many amateur 'doctors' and still far more amateurs who couldn't even pretend to be a doctor.

I don't necessarily even agree with it, thus "is usually regarded within psychiatry."


It must be convenient that you're your own best example.

oh

but the 4 year olds being deemed transgender by their sjw parents and enablers and having their bodies mutilated or chemically altered are making things better

society is better now that we pretend a male can become a female or vice-verse and we're just supposed to reinforce this illusion and act like it's totally normal, never questioning it because that would make us hateful and bigoted nazis

it's repulsive and disgusting. you can guilt and berate people into shutting up about it and pretending it's wonderful and "progressive," but their gut reaction is that it's fucked up and gross, and you can't suppress that forever

So? You literally haven't answered any of my actual questions yet again, you are just avoiding them and jumping from one general statement to another.
Both schizophrenia and Alzheimer have detectable biological neurological factors, both impede human functioning, both are negative for a person, both can be treated with medication to help allievate the harm from it.
How is one an illness and other is not? What's the difference?
I ment treated, is your autism satisfied now?
Well, I tried to get something from you, too bad I haven't got anything.

Nice wording for a non-illness.

You can actually dependant on severity and your brain composition.

[X] Holla Forums
[ ] not Holla Forums

to you, because you're a spooked up faggot

I already said "one has an etiology," a proper physical mechanism and universal causation by way of it, but you handwaved the point.

What I said:
And, in the next post:
Just another example of your mad reading skillz.

Judging from your reading ability, I believe you completely.

most of the world's population believes in spooks and holds them as their deepest and most cherished beliefs, so good luck getting them to just abandon that

no, to most people. otherwise why do trans people claim they feel that society disapproves of or dislikes them? guess it must all be in their heads then

when most people see a man with breasts wearing a dress and kissing another man, or a woman with a beard and shaved head breastfeeding a child, it looks strange and often disgusting. the immediate reaction is not positive

Schizophrenia also has a biological causation so it's false. It also has a physical mechanism behind it (and isn't everything is a physical mechanism from your perspective anyway?). Also having a clear etiology =/= illness, so it's also wrong. We still don't know about all the causes for cancer for example, yet it's a serious illness than needs treatment. Same can still be said about schizophrenia. Or clinical depression if we touched on it.
So from all the questions you answered it seems to be a totally incostistent mess yet.
I know what you said, it was just interesting why you used that word in the first place. Don't mind it, just a remark.
Well if only I had something substantial to read.

Every aspect of behavior involves biological causation, as I've said before, because humans exist materially. This is trivially true, also as I've already stated.

Cancer arises from the abnormal division of cells (in the sense that they form tumors and spread to other tissues). In the sense of "genetic causes," that's true, but it's irrelevant to the status of cancer as a disease with solely physical causation (i.e. it doesn't acquire its "existence" as an illness by being defined socially).

?
they're measurable chemical imbalances in an individual's brain
are you next going to tell me that oxygen is a spook?

Well society decided to call one biological abonormality "cancer". And another biological abnormality is called "schizophrenia". Both exist as concepts by defined so socially, but both have a material phenomenon behind it and a physical causations for it to manifest.
Also just to confirm as I stated in the beginning of the converation, I'm also quite sceptical of psychiatry and agree that it has many vague and biased points in it, especially concerning what is an illness and their definitions, and how societal norms influence them.
But I can't deny that the basis behind all these concepts usually indeed constitutes a serious neurological disorder that should be considered an illness and treated as such for the sake of people suffering from it.

...

Is Hoochie the dumbest person on leftypol?

That would be the posters that reply to her.

over a billion people believe in islam. should we let those that do kill you for being a kaffir piece of shit?

Nah it's you.

...

i don't even like hooch but calling them stupid is just lazy

I never knew this board was filled to the fucking brim with transphobia, and the bizarre cognitive dissonance that justifies it.

wew

Why is Hoochie's tripcode different every time she shows up? You are all fucking dumb.

Bad meme.

These threads were not always like this, religion threads also suffer from this type of shitposting nowadays.
its mainly due to Holla Forums's larger size and being on Holla Forums.

You guys are prue cancer, Post-Left Nihilist Dysphoria Hon Suicide Bombers will destroy the left and civilisation with it.

Man, ED was the shit back then.
Too bad DeHippo put a premature end to that.
We are far away from a second rising though, since nowadays every asshole seems to have topics he treats as sacred cows and will react bitchy if someone makes fun of it.

Why is one immediately classified as transphobic, just because one doesn't understand trans people, and asks questions? I must say, this attitude is really helpful.

You're being dishonest, this does not happen.

...

I don't think anyone here hates trans people but they hate liberals, and a lot of trans people are liberals. I have a couple tankie trans comrades so I can't really hate on them.

who did the first one

Transgirl Diaries

unfortunately their site got delted off the internet a while back, but there are a few archives most of their work around, here is one I uploaded a while back:

imgur.com/a/norNY

some cultures, including many south pacific islanders, have an equivalent to being trans and it's not seen as abnormal or as a 'mental illness', but as natural human variation. tbh, capitalism is interested in commodifying and exploiting 'identities' without actual regard for the people involved, which might be good for you if you have the money, pretty useless if you don't and rather limiting and condescending either way.

eh

Even if it is a mental illness, when whatever, we don't expect bipolar people get over their bipolar-ness through raw power of the mind. they go to therapy and take medication, transgender people do exactly the same.

Ironically, seeing it as a mental illness doesn't validate people who hate transgender folk.

fuck

yeah, their comic is rather heavy

lol

...

Literally wtf is is it with leftist transphobia. Stawwwwp. Yes tumble fags are annoying but they're are a bunch of the people who literally want to kill themselves because they hate they're body so much. The problem lies in the fact that tumble has delegitimised all trans issues when in reality they are an oppressed minority reeeeeeeeeeeeee

spooks and conflating trannies with liberals

The severe cultural stigma of mental illness will always make topics like this difficult to approach for any political tendency that at least pretends to adhere to principles of reason.

Regardless, people are mad at liberal idpol, not trannies themselves.