Postmodernism and Intersectionality are kill thnx 2 Bernie & Rojava

So here's my hypothesis:

There seems to be a huge backlash brewing within the left against PoMo and "intersectionality", primarily due to the aftermath of the Bernie campaign and the seeds of socialism being planted in what is called Rojava. All of these debates about "eurocentricism", "declonizing XYZ bodies", "intersectional complex identities", and whatnot are slowly being phased out in favor of a return to classical Marxism, humanism and universalism. Oh hell, even the hipsters at Jacobin are suggesting the left re-embrace the Enlightenment tradition.

During the Bernie campaign, there was a constant bombardment by leftists - primarily those involved in academia and non-profits - who claimed his campaign wasn't "intersectional" enough. Statements like: "Free healthcare and free college tuition are great - OK BUT white people will primarily benefit from them, so how will they help us decolonize our minds as an imperialist white supremacist capitalist patriarchy?" or: "Social democracy doesn't end racism - JUST LOOK AT ISRAEL OR FRANCE" were incredibly common. Here's Chibber and another based Poo-in-Loo explaining:
youtube.com/watch?v=hhwePFyB5g8
youtube.com/watch?v=u2i583cJs9M
Now, this created *a lot* of resentment by other leftists, who grew tired of hearing all this academic jibber-jabber when all they wanted was basic shit for their country which peoples of other countries take for granted. Even if they agreed with the basic premise (that gibsmedat isn't enough), they still detested the vulgarity spewing out of the ivory tower (especially when you consider how most academics, even if they're people of color, come from bourgeois backgrounds and prioritize idpol over economic issues out of their own self-interest).

This brings me to the other big thing that's making the PoMo left secretly foam at the mouth: Rojava. Certainly, it's hardly a perfect anarcho-syndicalist utopia, but the framework is definitely there. What makes this a particularly interesting case is how the Kurds base their Democratic Confederalism NOT on the teachings of Mao, Fanon, Said, or even Islam, but on Murray "google me now" Bookchin, an American {{{A$hKKKeNAZI}}} white devil who was sympathetic to Israel, detested conventional national liberation struggles and promoted Enlightenment humanist thought. Even though Rojava's constitution promotes religious and ethnic pluralism, and Kurdish women are given equal roles to men in all aspects of society, the Kurds stay focused on means of production and collectivizing what is needed to survive, which has made the start of their revolution successful. Now, it's not like the Palestinians - who are widely portrayed as the flagship species of the contemporary left - are making the same progress despite having far more support for their struggle globally; Hamas hasn't turned Gaza into a commune and Palestinian workers didn't rise up to seize the SodaStream factories. Nor do many other "colonized" people have the same amount of leftist organizing as the Kurds currently do. All that academic talk of "only the most oppressed can be AUTHENTIC socialists" seems lost when compared to the existing conditions.

So, it looks like PoMo and all the schools of thought which have grown from it (in particular, postcolonial theory) are about to enter the dustbin of history. The left is slowly but surely returning to the values of the Enlightenment and universalist western thought.

Other urls found in this thread:

ohio.edu/people/hartleyg/docs/marx_iroquois.html
republicancommunist.org/blog/tag/karl-marx-the-iroquois/
mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0OW1VN20150616
youtube.com/watch?v=dHHK6Y3CZhI
youtube.com/channel/UCHUzbq68PYLE_n_Sn_DuYAg/videos
kurdishquestion.com/oldarticle.php?aid=bookchin-oecalan-fruits-on-the-tree-of-mankind
mondoweiss.net/2012/02/the-iraq-war-coverup-what-did-aipac-do-and-when-did-it-do-it/
youtube.com/watch?v=Rd7VeQjlFhM
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Anti-Fascist_Committee
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors'_plot
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable
democracynature.org/vol2/bookchin_nationalism.htm
btselem.org/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Gramsci
timesofisrael.com/putin-first-soviet-government-was-mostly-jewish/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

JaKKKobin was never good.

Sauce on that statement? If so, just another reason that Bookchin is shit.

Aside from that, yes OP, the Democrat primary (and the subsequent defeat of idpol liberalism by fascist idpol) more than anything kickstarted the death of idpol in the left. However, Holla Forums itself is actually one of the driving forces of anti-idpol leftism, and it was founded before the Dem primary. So this dialectic actually had its start from Gamergate and BLM, which were both heavily ongoing when Holla Forums was started. Clintoncucks who accused Bernie supporters of being like Gamergaters were actually right in many ways.

Universalism a best.

I don't think I agree with this. A lot of Bernie's support came from SJWs but other SJWs were highly critical of him too.

Sauce on PoMos hating on Rojava?

Not that it would surprise me

You don't really need any PoMos going "I HATE ROJAVA". All you need to do is look at how the Kurds are actually doing things and you'll see it's far from the standard "decolonize yur mind" model.

It sounds so fucking strange I can't bring myself to believe it, even through I'm definitely seeing some change in the leftist discourse recently.

We're a part of it, though mostly in our influence through memes and on leftist twitter. I don't really know how big an influence we actually have though.

Roo has been anti-idpol from the start but I'm not sure if he's part of this whole thing.

Returning to MoP is the future. IDpol has been proven a massive failure as far as creating an organic revolutionary subject goes.

First of all, we are the first and only coherent community of leftists on the English-speaking internet who critique idpol. Twitter cliques don't count.
Second, many open critics of idpol are probably lurking or secretly posting here.
Third, the existence of Holla Forums is a response to political and material forces that promote idpol. Many people are coming to our conclusion independently as their own response, but then end up here. In this way, we act as a vanguard: we were anti-idpol even when it wasn't popular and we had only 100 IPs, and we waited for popular sentiment to shift to us. Now we strengthen and reinforce that sentiment with our heightened activity (organization is an end in and of itself), our propaganda (memes, FB pages, twitter) and our agitation (reddit cat purge, Holla Forums communism general, RDW sponsorship).

actually most of the kurds are practicing muslims and certainly take influence from islam.

I wonder what AnarchoPac would think of this. He's a typical Chomskyite humanist but makes tons of videos attacking anti-idpol/anti-intersectional leftists.

They may be *practicing* Muslims but they do not base their politics in anything close to Islam. They're highly secular and laïcitéist.

Rojava is actually heavily pomo and explicitly anti-colonial. The importance of Rojava, for us in the West anyway, is not that we copy Rojava's ideas, but that we learn of Bookchin, whose Communalism was developed with the context of the West in mind and is more suited to struggles here.

Bookchin's work, however, is extremely anti-pomo and anti-nationalism.

Bookchin's work is also heavily anti-ID pol too.

In what ways?

I fucking swear, "OK but" has become the new "problematic."

Anything which comes before "but" can be ignored.

Rojava is anti-imperialist in a meaningful way that applies to the real world, pomos are concerned with ideas and concepts that only make sense in their little bubble.

With regards to anti-colonialism, remember that the PKK originated in the decolonial movements that swept the East in the 20th century. From the start, their struggles have been in the context of anti-imperialism and anti-colonialism. This aspect is retained in their new theories, because the PKK must still struggle against Turkish and Iranian imperialism and colonialism. For us in the West though, this isn't particularly relevant. The PKK struggles against these things because of the *specific social circumstances* they find themselves in the Middle East.

As far as pomo goes, Ocalan, while being mostly influenced by Bookchin, is also heavily influenced by post-modernism such as philosophers like Nietzsche and Foucoult. Again, this isn't a failing in democratic confederalism, but an element of its philosophy that is specific in its applicability to the context of the Middle East.

Nietzsche isn't really PoMo though. Foucault I can see, but when I say "PoMo" I'm mostly referring to the academic trends which deny metanarratives and any kind of universalism. Yes, it's true that the Kurds adopt their theory to their existing conditions, but they're not ethnocentricists nor do they specifically root their theories in "indigenous metaphysics" or whatever, but in ideas which can be applied to multiple places across the board.

interesting thoughts op, i wish there was less forum sliding so i wouldn't have to go to page 9 to find this.

Just use the catalogue, pleb.

nvm, this thread was actually on the frontpage when i found it. sadly others aren't.

then why does he fall for the "breaking down >irrational and >incoherent (kek) hierarchy and domination" meme?

Good post OP. I hope to god you are right about the backlash against idpol. I have seen a number of articles in mainstream leftist publication talking about the limits of idpol such as Jacobin, Viewpoint magazine, and The Baffler.

I think you are right that the experience of the democratic primary played a big part in this. Many leftists found themselves under attack by the media-academia idpol complex which is inevitably going to generate some backlash. Like 90% of idpol argument tactics are just adhoms (bernie bro) and strawmanning (oh universal healthcare so you don't care about race), and it is incredibly frustrating to be on the receiving end of such garbage.

I don't really think Rojava is affecting the backlash against idpol really, but I think your right that when you thing about it Kurds embracing and having success with an American anarchists theory really does BTFO the post-colonial and orientalist mindset many leftists have.

As a side note on this:
Why are there so many based south-asian leftists in the USA. They are over-represented to the extent Jews where in the old communist movement: Sunkara, Chibber, Sawant, Majumbar. Many of them are also anti-idpol which is refreshing.

That's it. What Rojava should teach the left is that you can liberate yourself from imperialism without having to retreat to an "authentic X identity" like the Iranians tried to do but instead embrace secularism and true ethnic pluralism.

Go back and reread what I posted. It was Ocalan who was influenced by Foucault, not Bookchin. Bookchin was extremely anti-pomo.

I can't wait tell Bookchin gets more popular. He has so many quotes that can be used to shut down radical libs.

OP here and thanks comrade.
Yes, and as based Chibber pointed out, a major problem with the discourse on race is how most of it comes down to blaming everyday white people for the birth of white supremacy/"colonialism" (the way the PoMos put it). It's like, a poor white family in eastern Kentucky who wants their teenagers to be able to attend college without going into loads of debt are called out by some black female porky teaching at Berkeley for having colonized minds: "How dare you ask for goodies when you're LITERALLY living on INDIGENOUS LAND you filthy crackers?!". That was the norm all last year and a huge reason for all the anti-intersectionality backlash. A poor white person, or even ANY white person, isn't ending white supremacy or making shit better for black/Latino/Native people by deliberately deciding to go without, as if beating yourself down will better conditions for others.


If the Kurds did what the ivory tower told them to do, they'd only take from theories and ideas coming from other Kurds (or other Muslims or Persians), but instead they look towards western thought of all things. Say what you will, but I think Zizek is correct about one fundamental thing: at this point, capitalism doesn't need "the west" anymore, as it's perfectly capable of growing and reproducing in the East, so instead of demanding that western leftists imitate easterners to cleanse themselves of guilt they should return to their own radical histories and philosophies like universalism, humanism, secularism, and so on. Goldman Sachs doesn't care if you wear a hijab.

You would.

Jacobin isn't a Marxist publication and never claimed to be. They're SocDem at best.

Speaking as an American Jew of partially Moroccan descent with cousins in both Israel and France, I can say the US is far more racist in some aspects than the former two. Yes, there's apartheid in the West Bank, but there's also de facto apartheid in most American cities. The pigs do to blacks and Latinos (especially immigrants) what the IDF does to Palestinians. France has islamophobia but it's not anything close to what Trump is doing. So given all of this, how would something as mundane as social democracy make much of a difference? I would take the French health care system over the American one anyday.

Except there are many other Kurds who are also Yezidis, Alevis, even Christians and Jews, and of course atheists.

Humanism and enlightenment "rationality" are the worst kinds of idpol though, take the black pill

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Why does tumblr bother you so much

Do you think its going to go away. It's not going to go away.

Serves him right, he trusted a blonde

He didn't actually, Euronymous intended to kill Varg originally, he just lost.

The only difference is Varg deserved to die because he proved it. He stabbed someone in the back. Fucking little pussy.

OP here.
That's something else which needs to be addressed: as well as being smashed with idpol, Bernie's campaign was also heavily attacked by petit-bourgeois Palestinian intellectuals who kept complaining about Bernie not being anti-Zionist enough. Yeah, they loved it when Bern brought up Israel's war crimes in Gaza, but they kept reminding everyone how Bernie is a Zionist (since supporting the international consensus of a two-state solution on the '67 border is also "Zionist", apparently) and that he used to live on a kibbutz and all of that. Ali Abuminah is one culprit who comes to mind. But now, the Palestinians are stuck with a Trump-Bibi double whammy which will no doubt be very painful for them. Would Bernie have been much better? We can't say definitively, but we do know there's no way the Palestinians will win with Trump signing off on Israeli policy.

No one uses that term anymore.

Bernie was weak on Israel, his foreign policy in general was shit. He didn't speak out about Yemen, or about US support for terrorists in Syria.

Good point. Now he's pushing the whole Russophobia scare.

I think I understand why people become tankies now.

Well, the idea behind this logic is that concessions like free stuff will continue to give white people an advantage, and it will blind them to the fact that they live in a system which is inherently unjust. The problem is, of course, that it's used as emotional blackmail by people who arguably have it much better than your average white working-class family.

No, it's based off their assertion that "whiteness" itself is inherently oppressive because reasons.

That's what I'm saying. It's based on the idea that whites need to be "cleansed" in the sense where they need to be brought down to the level where black/Latino/Native people are currently. It's no different than the Turd Worldist notion that the First World needs to be starved before a socialist revolution can occur here.

Except in their own little world, "oppression" has an entirely different meaning. Every word basically does for them

What the fuck does "decolonizing bodies" even mean? Black people from the suburbs "abandoning" American culture to LARP as though they're Africans?

In practice, yes.

In theory it means doing away with biases which white people forced on you.

Where does this meme come from. Jacobin is pretty consistently in favor of expropriating the ruling classes property. Just because they don't have some edgy insurrectionist mindset that doesn't mean they are socdems.


To be fair Bernie made a single tweet about this and I don't think he's made any public statements. I agree any serious politician should stfu about russia tho.

There have been the occasional criticism leveled against international volunteers that they are whites taking over the whites man struggle. They cant criticise Rojava though exactly because of that reason though.

*brown mans struggle

heh that's a cool spook you got there kiddo

Unless you're engaged in a political movement to overthrow a colonial power that is subjugating you, "decolonization" is pretty much a buzzword thrown about nebulously in the left today.

Assuming this is true, why would it matter? International solidarity should be a real thing. Take a look at ISIS and you'll see how most of their members aren't even Syrian or Iraqi but Saudi, Algerian, Pakistani, Somali, Sudanese, etc.

No, Jacobin has always been an academic leftist publication which heavily endorsed Bernie.

I am not defending radlibs that criticise international volunteers for going to rojava when YPG specifically asked for them to come.

You can't compare Palestine to Rojava. Kurdish resistance has always been leftist and Marxist-oriented whereas the Palestinians barely have a real left-wing at all.

You can, and it's precisely for that reason. Both the Palestinians and Kurds have been under repression and military occupation for decades. Both people are highly factionalized. So why have the Kurds been able to collectivize and plant the seeds of socialism whereas the Palestinians haven't? Hamas and Fatah are both screwing them over pretty badly, and while the PFLP still has some momentum they're just not as active as they once where. Why? Sure, we can blame {{{da joooz}}} all we want for deliberately funding Hamas to offset leftist opposition, but Hamas wouldn't have won their election without support from the general Gazan populace.

I think you're right, all those Burger liberals finally defeated the Burger academic Po-Mo racket.
Just another day in the United Lands of Disney, I guess.

What's with the Postmodernism boogieman? You guys only like socialist realism?

Socialist realism is a form of art. Except for the egoists, we're all materialists here.

PoMo distracts from revolutionary narratives and denies reality to give capitalism philosophical breathing room by denying that it's a real problem. Plus, it's the ideological progenitor of idpol in many cases. PoMo is the philosophical fig leaf of neoliberalism.

Egoists are materialists.

No, they're idealism taken to the extreme where it nullifies its own construction of the world - that is, the idea of "I think, therefore I am" taken to the logical extreme where nothing else in that abstract realm can continue to exist beside it because they can be negated. The next logical step for an egoist, when they realize that the world is material and acts back upon them in patterned fashions, is to conclude that all ideas begin as and should remain useful abstractions of the material world and to become a materialist of either the social-anarchist or Marxist variety; alas, they would not be pure egoists if they weren't still within the realm of idealism.

I also remember him/her saying once that marxism is a white supremacist movement.

ohio.edu/people/hartleyg/docs/marx_iroquois.html
republicancommunist.org/blog/tag/karl-marx-the-iroquois/
Except for that Marx based his ideas about future communism off his studies of the Iroquois. That being said, the others were all either purely primitive communism (without a larger organizational structure and society beyond maybe a few villages, no democracy) or, to the south, statist hellholes like the Aztec and Inca empires (the latter of which was basically a primitive USSR, with a centrally planned economy based upon collective labor payments).

True, but this was because of the material conditions they lived in, mainly the absence of higher technology. They won't just magically become communist while they still have access to modern knowledge and technology, even if white people would leave.

I don't argue that. People are people. That idpoller is pants-on-head retarded. It's wrong to dismiss examples of primitive communism out of hand in terms of usefulness - in fact, they're great starting points for visualizing what future communism will likely look like potentially because they're instructive in how humans organize in the absence of domination.

That similar structures of primitive communism pop up all across the world is a great refutation to both "human nature" arguments from garden-variety liberals and the arbitrary divisions of people by idpollers. We should use it more.

True I agree on that. A shame that many of those "back to nature" and "live sustainably" movements in the west (or at least in my country) a filled with esoteric New Age retards or stormweenies.

Yeah, that completely refutes human nature.

Look at what I wrote again
They always argue that communism is unnatural, that it's inefficient, that it has to be enforced by a state (which would make it not communism then, but you get the point). It's plainly not true and easily refuted, we just don't have a good set of ready-made responses.

Most of their troops are locals fam

pretty sure is right and most of the mercenaries are hired from other countries.

obviously some locals prefer to join the terrorists rather than have their family starve or get tortured but i doubt that's the majority. but maybe it changed by now with supply routes to turkey increasingly cut off?

Isil has between 100k and 200k troops, only a few thousand of those are foreign, why wouls most troops be foreign if they control large swaths of territories full of Sunnis who support them and who can be conscripted?

mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0OW1VN20150616

I wonder what would of happened to black metal if Varg was killed instead, would satanic communism be more common part in black metal than nationalist spooks?

LOL

stop running from thread to thread, cia, how the fuck do you think you can hide on an imageboard while still spreading propaganda?
jesus fucking christ lay off the coke for an hour.

*Sniff* My god.

This is why youtube comments need to be abolished.

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Here. He's alright and completely correct, too. Israel does messed up things but almost all criticism of Israel is reactionary idpol and not based in analysis of power structures.

Sorry to butt in but why in the hell did anyone think rejecting Enlightenment values and methods would be a good idea?

COINTELPRO

What's funny though is that "postmodernity" is the ultimate and necessary consequence of modernity's obsession with liberation, production and knowledge. "Postmodernity" is just the stage where all modernity's goals are realized at a dizzying level, where all things are liberated so much that they enter into the orbit and lose any ground, where new ideologies are produced at such a rate that there are not enough people to believe in them anymore, where there is so much information that people can't form any understanding whatsoever.
Returning to some previous stage will just lead you back to where we are now. You have to oppose each system at a higher level, not a lower one. All lower levels are always re-absorbed and co-opted by the system. Neoliberal technocracy is a perfectly Enlightened(TM) project, they have numbers and graphs to prove it after all.

If what you're saying is correct it's ironic that among the fruits of this postmodern thinking are attacks on the very foundations of the liberalism yes, FreezePeach

Okay, fair point.

Thought made into noise

Enough of this shit. You're literally acting in the same framework as the idpollers and their perrenial "white male" punchbag. Don't fight them on their terms.

what if the black female looked like this?

The fact is that idpol IS a neccessary component of revolution.

My problem is not with idpol, t's with authoritarians, the Holla Forumstards, the sharpies and the libpols, who approach issues of identity, racism, sexism, etc, as a victorian school teacher armed with a stick.

Bookshit is a fucking clown.

A decade ago, it was "I'm not racist, but…", now it's more "I'm not against freedom of speech, but…"


I reckon Jacobin was never… well, Jacobin, but it's arguably the most radical influential publication in the West right now.

Because they manipulate the world's greatest superpower to horrific acts? Because they are the only Middle Eastern state that actually has nuclear weapons? Because they have turned the Levant into the world's biggest powder keg? Because they so shamelessly play the role of victims?

Bookchin is such an idiot. Why does this guy have any influence at all?

Bullshit. The elimination of idpol is necessary for revolution. It is not a weapon for us to adopt, because it can only ever be used to destroy solidarity.

Leave Holla Forums alone. We were a harmless torture-chamber til m00t and SRS tried to jew us.

But a lot of egoists here are social-anarchists. They're not mutually exclusive. Egoists center their own (lack of) moralism around individual self-interest, not some transcendental idealism where the ego is the ontological whole.

I don't know what you man by "elimination of idpol" but sexism, racism, ableism are pretty important issues to deal with.

It does have support, especially in areas ruled by shia. You also completely ignored my point about conscription.

This post needs to be a /bestof/.

Israel is a problem, but the Arab states are also responsible for fucking things up. How many "Arab liberationist" governments were nothing more than Soviet puppets, the same way Israel is an American puppet?

youtube.com/watch?v=dHHK6Y3CZhI

She explains it well.

The Rojavan model for social institutions is actually more radically feminist than anything I've ever even seen proposed in western feminist thought. They literally have parallel institutions for women, in order to ensure parity of influence and power within society between men and women. They have parallel military institutions for men and women, parallel community councils for men and women, etc. It's almost a radically female separatist thing they have going on, if you read up on it. Just wanted to point that out, since you seemed to be implying that they were more focused on economic issues than social issues.

Quite interesting but is this a positive development? I mean what if all the whores decide they want the BAC?

sounds like apartheid but i guess it makes more sense when you're there.

OP here.

All of what you're saying is true, but it's important to note that the Kurds are still primarily focused on means of production. They don't see feminism or ethnic relations as things which need to be prioritized but rather compliment their democratization program.

That's another reason why the potential success of Rojava is getting PoMos all pissed off. It's not like Kurdish intelligensia are wasting their time trying to "deconstruct the Turkish identity" or "return to an authentic Kurdishness" or whatever. Compare this to Palestinian intellectuals (in particular, the ones in the diaspora) who have made "deconstructing Jewishness to prove da joooz aren't REALLY indigenous to Palestine" their primary form of attack - what victories has that truly won them? None. Blogs like EI and Mondoweiss are particularly bad at this.

Well it does happen. There are plenty of bourgeois black female academics who will shit on working-class whites, usually in the form of narcissistic abuse. "You honkeys have NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN because you're WHITE."

It's not.

Good one.

Other than maybe Afghanistan, I don't think any.


You have it backwards.

youtube.com/channel/UCHUzbq68PYLE_n_Sn_DuYAg/videos

"Rojava's spirit comes into being through the philosophy of Abdullah Öcalan. One of the major tasks of this philosophy is to overcome dichotomies based on the division of subject and object. This division is found in such binaries as black/white, East/West, nature/society, and so on. Domination and exploitation quickly arise from such thinking as the active and intelligent subject (white, West, society, etc.) is separated and raised above the passive and inferior “object.” In order to move beyond hierarchy and domination, a new way of thinking is necessary to recognize the unity in diversity of social life…" - kurdishquestion.com/oldarticle.php?aid=bookchin-oecalan-fruits-on-the-tree-of-mankind

America controls Israel. Most anti-Zionists can't into IR.

Honestly if anything it's the other way around but their mutually symbiotic imo

Not everything the US does is in Israel's favor, not to mention the US is far more dependent on Israel as a tool to spread hegemony in the ME than Israel is on the US.

That's what I mean: Rojava isn't a postcolonial project which aims at "reviving athenticity" but transcending it.

Sure thing, Chomsky. You let us know how Israel spreads American hegemony in the Middle East and serves the interests of the American government.

Weren't they immediately behind us for Iraq?

Isha'Allah.
Meh. We need something beyond liberalism.

What do you mean? AIPAC pushed for war in Iraq, as of course did the mostly Zionist neoconservatives in Bush's cabinet. There is a lot of information on this, although they themselves pretended to be neutral:


mondoweiss.net/2012/02/the-iraq-war-coverup-what-did-aipac-do-and-when-did-it-do-it/

Can you name any?

wtf im a communalist now?

WTF I'm Berkeleyan immaterialist now!

Every time, without fail. Postmodernism is the fine art of saying things that can be interpreted as either sweeping but absurdly wrong, or true but vacuous, and vacillating just right to pass it off as deep profundity.

Please. If supporting Israel wasn't in the interest of Lockheed, Microsoft, and plenty of other multinational corporations, they'd end it immediately.

You know why they are dead, m8? Because they are complete and utter bullshit.
The whole point of marxism there is class warfare. In the core of marxism there is the proletariat (laborers, farmers, craftsmen).

The modern left has forsaken the class warfare, it invents red herrings to kvetch about at astonishing rate. It's always about homos, feminists, colonialism, intersectionality, some other bourgeois degenerate bullshit of the day, but never about the class identity, never about attacking the international capital that is enslaving nations and races.
The very proletariat that marxism was invented for is called "uneducated rednecks" by the progressive jewish professors, who never experienced class struggle.
Your every symbol is monetized, your every idea is bought and sold by the international capital.
Marxism is a stuffed corpse that the jewish capital is waving in your faces.

Do you know why we are winning? Because National-Socialism is the natural predator of the globalist capitalism and first and foremost stands with the common proletarian.
The capital fears us so much it refuses to monetize us even in the simplest forms.
I bet you saw the t-shirts with Mao/Che Guevara/Marx being produced by major corporations and openly sold. You won't see a t-shirt with Hitler or Goebbels, despite the major demand. And it's the best proof of you being dead and us being the real opposition to the world capital and you being it's stooges.

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If you knew anything about the history or the national-socialist economy, you would know that Hitler's Germany was disconnected from the world banking and was running a labor based currency and collectivist production methods, and wouldn't trust pictures from jewgle.

And second, socialism has nothing to do with communism, where the 🍀🍀🍀state🍀🍀🍀 controls the means of production. Instead the state means of production are privatized by the workers themselves in form of shares.

They had support for a time, by playing hard the sunnism tribalism card. After some times under isis rule, the population's support might have dwindled a bit though.

Communism is a stateless, classless society based upon the economic maxim "from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs, whatever they may be".

Most anarchists are communists as well, you dumbfuck.

De facto "communism" is the process of trying to achieve that mythical society, because no one has ever seen it and no one ever will, because it goes against the basic animalistic human nature. It differs from the various conventional forms of the socialism and, as it stands, shouldn't be called socialism at all, because it's not a self-sustaining system, but a temporary instrument of achieving another system.

You idiot, that's our entire point here. You are so fucking clueless that you don't even know what postmodernism is. What's really funny is that Heidegger, Nietzsche, and all of the other idealist linguists that nazis and the like base their theory on were the early philosophers who took the linguistic turn into what became postmodernism. You are bitching about your own theory.

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I know very well what postmodernism is. But what the modern left stands for is not postmodernism, more like post-schizophrenic consumerism.
I was speaking about the neo-leftism in general.

And, by the way, Nietzsche and Heidegger have very little to do with postmodernism, they are basic bitch subjectivist existentialists. If you are looking into real Nazi philosophy try Evola.

If that were the case, then you would not be trying to connect it to modernist materialism.


Liberals are very much doing postmodernism. Nazis and pomos are using the exact same linguistic feez>realz theory.

The hell they didn't. Nietzsche even started the whole linguistic turn well before Heidegger and his contemporaries began treating Saussure like a philosopher.


Ah yes, the original Aleister Crowley, a man who seriously believed in occult magical rituals. Have you actually read any of his shit? He was fucking bonkers.

That's where you are wrong. We are and always were, first and foremost factual. We only use feelz for propaganda. There is a huge difference between basing your world view on feelz and feeding them to the masses for memetic response.

Are you seriously telling that to someone worshiping an ancient egyptian frog god?
It works. Everything he said works.

Oh, and by the way, that exactly what the international capital Jew is doing. The Jew feeds you feelz and floods you with irrelevant and confusing information about the world, so the only real thing you have to hang on to are the feelz. The feelz, that are more important than history, ideology, identity.

Now, there literally isn't a single communist movement, that doesn't defend muslims. Why? Did they suddenly forget the works of Engels with his famous "the religion is the opium for the masses" or Lenin with his "the religious superstitions in all it's forms must be removed from the lives of the people" (yes, we actually read your books)? They were subverted and brainwashed by the international Jew to the point where they welcome the destruction of the native European proletariat by the bourgeois religious fundamentalists.

Nah m8, you're only aknowledging as facts data matching your feelings while dismissing information going against your worldview as Jewish conspiracy. That's not the same thing as being factual.

Actually, you're the ones dismissing the Jewish question as a "conspiracy theory", despite the facts being right before your eyes.

Here are the simple facts, easily verifiable by checking wikipedia:
1. The Jews make up only approximately 0.027% of the world population.
2. 54% of the billionaires, international bankers, corporate CEOs are Jewish.
3. 3 out of 8 supreme court justices are Jewish.
4. The Hollywood and the press are so Jewish it's hard to take an accurate estimate, but by our calculations it's close to 80%
5. The Jews are racial supremacists and their religion states that the whole world should belong to them
6. The Jews have numerous organizations and funds, aimed at lobbying governments, funding the media, shutting down criticism - WJC, AIPAC, ADL, SOKHNUT, WEC etc etc.

And I won't even go into the government itself being largely Jewish.

So tell me, don't these facts come together in your mind?
Don't you trust Stalin, who said the same exact thing, rounded up all the Jews and sent them to Jewish Autonomous Oblast in Siberia in hopes that by having their own land they would eventually develop some class consciousness (which they never did)?

Oh, and I forgot to mention, that after everything Stalin has done for the Jews, the Soviet Jewish Antifascist Committee immediately after the war started kvetching about the holocaust trying to make WW2 about them and dismissing suffering of gentiles on both sides.

Then these Jews got arrested, but they tried to get revenge by Jewish doctors plotting to kill the party officials and Stalin himself with wrong treatments, botched flu shots and malpractice.

It all happened, but is now dismissed as "soviet antisemitism". Doesn't it seem suspicious to you, that everything they do is "conspiracy theory" and everything anyone else, no matter nation or ideology does to resist them is dismissed as "antisemitism"?

Holy shit you guys are no different than the SJW's complaining about lack of diversity.

Citation needed.

Nietzsche and PoMo differ.

youtube.com/watch?v=Rd7VeQjlFhM

If its bankers and CEOs you're angry about, why bother only attacking the jewish ones?

Why not just skip the profiling and go straight to attacking porky in whatever guise he's in?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Anti-Fascist_Committee
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors'_plot

Seriously? That's one of the most known facts about the post-war Stalinist USSR.
There is even an evidence that were in contact with American Jews and conspired together.
And the accusations of antisemitism are laughable, because many of these arrested Jews occupied top state positions like generals and ministers, previously appointed personally by Stalin.

It's about operrepresentation in the seats of power, academia and the international capital. And not just any overrepresentation, but an overrepresentation by roughly 20000% and it's all over the world. Just do the math.
What you should ask yourself is, could such an overrepresenation occur naturally?


We are attacking all of them, but strangely enough if you start attacking a gentile CEO or a bank, you will very soon find lots of Jews pulling the strings.
Do you know why is Holla Forums Nazi? There was a place called /new/, where everyone was welcome, and different ideologies talked and debated - commies, libertarians, fascists, monarchists. But over time people started noticing patterns and realizing that every word of Mein Kampf is actually the reality of the situation. "Holla Forums is always right" meme originated when someone brought a new Fed report, a new tyrannical law or a identity olympics article and found Jewish names on it every time.

You noticed Judaism is the original far-right ideology.
which is why Hitler was against Jews, and today would be against white nationalists and other farrighters for the same reasons.

Jews aren't far-right, i simplified it for the commies to digest.
Jews consider themselves to be the only real humans on earth, because they received a second soul from god and everyone else is cattle for them to abuse and plunder.
All the Jews do is trying to fulfill a set of prophecies to hasten the coming of the Jewish messiah.
When this messiah comes he will sit on the golden throne on the mount Zion and will be crowned as the king of kings and the jews will rule over the world and every Jews will have 2400 (i think that was the number) gentile slaves.

The aim of Jews is to dominate the world and enslave everyone else in the most feudal way possible. If you try to put the jews on a political map they will be something like tribal theocracy.

That might surprise you, but yes it can.
In feudal times Christian society deemed money as sin and for centuries the Jews had a monopoly on financial related activity. The families involved in this had therefore a huge advantage that could only get i tensifying for the law of capitalism tend to concentrate capital in ever fewer hands.

That's a quite curious racial supremacism that one where the member of the master race outmarry at roughly 50% rate

People will dismiss this because your phrasing is too extreme. Some Talmudic scholars & religious Jews will agree with that, but most Jews aren't even religious, and many of them are quite sincere and humanitarian in much of their politics.

What is much more subtle is that Jews feel that they are uniquely victimized in history, and their narcissistic outlook prevents them from ever finding a context for anything bad that happens to them, such as actions they themselves have taken. Most groups and nations do this, with American exceptionalism being a great example, but Jews have taken it to another level of paranoia and nepotism. It certainly doesn't help that half the world follows religions based on theirs.

It's not racial supremacy, it's a tribal cult.

Exactly, and the churches protected Jews but not pagan non-Christians who would not have been bound by such stupid rules. Jews in the Middle Ages lived on average at the same level as the lower nobility, but to hear their telling of it, they were uniquely persecuted. Of course, their accounts are based on factual accounts, especially beginning with the 1st Crusade, but their narcissism prevents them from putting anything in context, such as how well they had it compared to others.

They only see the injuries to themselves. Again, many groups do this, but Jews do it far more than any others, and they attempt to destroy socially and financially anyone who counters that narrative.

You don't know one simple fact. In Israel, there exist many orthodox settlements, who are completely funded by the government, all expenses paid and their only job is to breed, preserve racial purity and keep the Jewish tradition.
The diaspora Jews intermarrying and dying out is actually beneficial to the Jew. Why? Because one of the conditions for the coming of the messiah is all Jews of the world returning to Israel. But obviously they need "field agents" to subvert and to control, but when their job is done they will either return or just stop their bloodline by mixing with a gentile.


The feudal times have very little to do with today. Countless holocausts and revolutions occurred and stripped the Jews off their capitals numerous times. As you remember the USSR only fell apart 26 years ago. 5 years after that Russia was completely and ultimately controlled by the Jewish oligarchs with close times to the international capitals. Where did these Jews come from? Where did they get these powers and capitals?
Boris Berezovsky - an accountant in USSR, suddenly the most powerful man in Russia with ADL contacts by 1996. Putin was his right hand initially.
Mikhail Khodorkovsky - a chemical engineer in USSR, by 1996 he managed to privatize most of Russia's natural resources with the help of Jacob Rothschild himself. Founder of the Open Societies Russia a sister foundation to George Soros' foundation, with Henry Kissinger on the board of directors. Look it up. The very foundation, by the way, which aimed to reeducate the Russian by opening summer camps, political workshops and printing school books all over Russia.
etc etc. There were 7 Jewish oligarchs, who controlled every aspect of Russia.

Why does international plutocracy and cronyism seem so unreal to you? If you study the fall of the USSR and the reformation of Russia, it will be the biggest redpill you will ever take, because you will observe the whole process of the Jewish subverion of a country very closely.

For a fucking reason. There isn't a single other nation or tribe in the history of humanity that was persecuted by every nation they lived in or lived near. From Hamurabi, Arthaxerxes, Nero, Charlemagne to Hitler and Stalin, everyone hated these poor victimized people without any apparent reason. Despite not hating anyone else.

All of them agree with that. Only some agree with that OPENLY.

Name a couple of these sincere and humanitarian Jews, who's work didn't end in mass deaths or cultural ethnocide or other Jews robbing the people blind, while he's sweettalking them.

We even warned you about Bernie, but you didn't listen. We told you to not trust a Jew. And we laughed at you when he started licking Clinton's asshole and giving her campaign all these donations from the poor gullible lefties.

Albert Einstein campaigned for nuclear disarmament in addition to his scientific work.

Was offered the presidency of israel but refused.

You have to consider that there was a clear American-British plan to attack USSR by the end of the 50s and bomb it into oblivion, and that Stalin getting nuclear weapons are the only thing that stopped another world war, his kvetching does present itself in another light, doesn't it?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable

You have to consider, that Stalin was just as big a thorn in the side of the international Jewish banking as Hitler, and ideally they hoped that they would destroy each other and then they could finish off the survivor. Actually the only decent Jews in the whole thing turned out to be the 2 traitors, who sold Stalin the plans for the nuclear bomb.

I meant by the end of the 40s.
They actually wanted to backstab USSR in 1946, but they didn't have enough firepower after the war, so the plan was moved to 1949-1950.

From → democracynature.org/vol2/bookchin_nationalism.htm

Too many to list, tbh. A lot of names you might recognize, like Norman Finkelstein, Gilad Atzmon, Phillip Weiss, Ilan Pappe, and Jeffrey Blankfort, to focus only on Jewish critics of Israel.

btselem.org/

Your criticism of Jews lacks sophistication and reads like the Protocols. You should read more Kevin MacDonald and less whatever it is that you are reading. Also, tune in to the works of Jews who aren't afraid to criticize their tribe.

The problem of Jews is not that they are some evil people, it's that they have a cult-like mindset and a set of beliefs that they enforce on other cultures which has benefited them immensely, insulated them from criticism, and made the world a worse place.

disavowing scientific inquiry (reals) for feels has to be the ultimate example of sour grapes

Considering the Soviet Union took control of countries like Poland when supposedly the flash point of WWII was the question of Polish sovereignty, I'm not sure what you'd expect.

WWII was one of the greatest follies in human history.

Several examples of "mythical" communism in practice, starting from the earliest examples beyond its primitive forms to the most recent examples: Iroquois Confederacy, Cossack stanitsas, 18th century pirate ships, anarchist Ukraine's free soviets, anarchist Catalonia's comites trabajadores, Rojava's pesniyar councils.

You're referring specifically to Leninism. Most communists nowadays do not adhere to its model of seizing control of the state and maintaining its bourgeois character because it seeks to implement what amounts to social democracy at gunpoint.

Read the bread book tbh

You mean the Jewish shop owners and petty bourgs's capital? That somehow weakens the capital of the richest families? Do you know how private property works?

Oh but we believe plutocracy is very real, but by focusing on its jewish component you're missing it's causes and how to remedy to it.

I'm just stating the facts. All I said is either common knowledge or easily researchable through the mainstream sources. Nothing is hidden, you just have to look and see.

>btselem.org/
Doesn't it seem odd to you? Not even a bit?
Let me tell you about Palestine. Palestine is a Jewish project, funded and engineered by Israel. Why would the Jews do that? To provoke the neighboring arab countries into attacking Israel to justify their complete annihilation and the occupation of their territories.
If I told you this 7 years ago, you might call me crazy, understandably so. But who orchestrated the Libyan "revolution"? Who orchestrated the civil war in Lebanon? Who toppled Mobarak? Who is bombing the government forces in Sirya as we speak? Every single Arab country around Israel is now completely and utterly destroyed and Israel is the eternal victim.
Mark my words, in a year the Jews will demand these arab lands in form of a protectorate or a safe zone.


That's not really a thing, since Poland was a part of the Russian empire before the revolution and Stalin had a pretty sound casus beli for occupation, which he didn't actually do. Poland retained limited sovereignty with the condition of being a communist state.

In reality of things Poland was an elaborate bait both for Hitler and for Stalin. After WW1 the Brits slaughtered the communists in poland to prevent the revolution, that was taking place in all parts of the Russian Empire and made it a de-facton protectorate. Then gave German Danzig to Poland. When Hitler came into power they ordered the Poles to kill and discriminate against the native Germans to provoke Hitler while promising Poland a complete military support in case of German attack.

It was all an elaborate setup to get rid of the Reich and USSR.

There's really only 1 family that kept their wealth through most of it. The Rothschilds. Most other Jews are nouveau riches. And their capitals always come seemingly out of nowhere and they get rich during a course of a few years.
Like Soros, who luckily "guessed" the exact course of the markets and the actions of the Bank of England. Or Zuckerberg, who luckily got funded and received media exposure at the right time. You see what I mean? Do you know how a feudal elevation into landed nobility works? The same thing. The Jewish organizations elevate right people into right positions to serve their common goal.

So the Jews control everything from the shadows but somehow they don't bother covering their tracks?

Jesus christ Holla Forums legitimately lives in a fantasy world.


I must say though you are good at arguing. I find some of this semi-convincing. Overall though there are good and bad jews, admittedly many of them do display a shocking amount of tribalism . I have had "left-wing" Jewish friends sperg out about Israel and BDS in a way that totally shocked me but there are also Jews who are anti-zionist (see Jewish protests against aipac). What is your opinion on Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Emma Goldman, Luxembourg, Bookchin etc. How does advocating for a more egalitarian and democratic society advance a jewish supremacist agenda especially when anti-capitalism would destroy finance and the mass media (the two main sources of Jewish influence as you correctly identify)

Also source for

It seems highly suspect IIRC ~40% of US billionaires are Jewish and ~10% of the billionaires in the world.

Soros also failed several bets before and after that. He's no different from other capitalists making their money out of financial markets.

No.


What, the area of Palestine? Palestinian opposition to Israel? That was funded by Israel? They didn't know to be mad that their land was taken, so Israel funded them to kick up a fuss….

What does that have to do with….

Aw, fuck, I don't know, man, it's not worth it. Read the Oded Yinon plan and get the fuck away from the conspiracy shit.

It's like you didn't grow up with Third Reich Action Figures®

Its because feminist in the west have nothing to do since the battle for suffrage has already been won, unlike in the middle east where it still needs to be fought for.

Why would they? The information is now a massive stream of diarrhea, that no one can digest. Most people aren't even interested in knowledge anymore, only in their peer status and blind consumerism. The ones who try to educate themselves conventionally get sucked into the neo-progressive brainwashing machine of the universities and start fighting for the right of disabled overweight nigger trannies. The ones who try to educated themselves unconventionally are easily drowned by the stream of information diarrhea.

And even if one of 10,000 manages to find something out he will be labeled antisemite neo-nazi whateve and either put behind bars like they do in Europe or sued by the ADL.

We are being shilled to death, our blogs ddosed into oblivion, our activists attacked by protest groups, you don't know what it's like to fight the Jews, it's hell, but it must be done.


Oh, don't get me started. Let's just say that a party of Jews, paid by a foreign power slaughtered tens of millions of gentiles in a senseless civil war.
Trotskism by itself is not even an ideology, but a weapon. The KGB actually used Trotskism as a wepon to destabilize countries before USSR moved in and installed a proper political system.
The only good thing that happened in communism is Stalin, because he was a traditionalist and ethnonationalist.

Open the Forbes top 100 richest list and count the jews. Then open the S&P 500 index and count the Jewish CEOs.


"everyone is equal, but some are more equal". You miss the point, the money is only a tool. I suggest you looking into the works of this guy en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Gramsci he advocated for the jewish cultural hegemony of the communist society.
And that guy only said openly, what the first Soviets governments practiced quietly.

Both. All of that. They fund the Palestinian leaders to keep the Palestinians there and play heroes.
Israel could've killed or displaced them all a long time ago, at any moment, if they wanted. Who would oppose the chosen people? The Jewish congressmen? The Jewish Senators? The Jewish bankers?
We both now Israel has gotten away with worse, like USS Liberty or selling F-35 blueprints to China.


It has to do with Oded Yanon allright. It has also to do with the fact that Jews want to expand their lebensraum into neighboring countries.

None of this is accurate

...

It is exactly what happened.

The first bolshevik government was 80% Jewish. Then the number came down to about 70% until Stalin.
Just look it up on wikipedia. Or if you don't Trust me listen to Putin timesofisrael.com/putin-first-soviet-government-was-mostly-jewish/
Or I actually have a video of a rabbi saying the same thing.

So that Jewish government started a coup against the temporary democratic government of Kerensky, which resulted in a massive civil war. During the war both sides requisitioned crops and livestock from the farmers, which resulted in famine, which killed millions.

>I suggest you looking into the works of this guy en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Gramsci he advocated for the jewish cultural hegemony of the communist society.

I'd love to read the parts where this gentile said that Jews must assume cultural hegemony.

The first Politburo was heavily Jewish, but numbers came down quickly after that. There is a pattern of Jews being very heavily involved in the early phases of communism revolution, and then their numbers quickly dropping.

Bullshit

By your logic, it was the Lithuanians who were conspiring, seeing as they were far more overrepresented in the Bolshevik party than Jews!

Plus, if I can't agree on anything politically with my Jewish grandfather (he supports Trump big time and I don't, he supports Israel against Palestine and I think both sides are shit, he's extremely pro-capitalist and pro-free market while I'm extremely against both of those, etc.), how are we supposed to be a homogeneous group conspiring to put in a particular agenda?

It's easier to say that even the French are a coherent conspiratorial group because they don't argue as much among themselves as Jews. The only reason why you see Jews in high places is because they put high emphases on questioning everything (including each other) and working hard.

There isn't really even a coherent sense of what it means to be "a Jew", tbqh. You're ridiculous thinking that this small, highly divided, ethnically disparate group of people could ever do anything as a whole, let alone rule the world in a conspiracy.

This is your brain on idpol, people.

Gramsci was a known Jew. Just look at him, looks like Trotsky's twin brother.

No. The number didn't come down until Stalin purged the Trotskists. And I'm not talking about only the politburo, I'm also talking about the Revvoensovet (revolutionary military council) and Cheka (the emergency commitee). All that happened until that point is Jews moving around the branches of the government. The total percentage didn't really come down.

hahaha holy shit, with reasoning like this no wonder you guys attributed Spencer's punching to a dead scatfag.

By that logic none of the modern Jews are Jewish.

As it turns out, you're a Jew and there really isn't any point in arguing with you, as you are not my target audience and will get shot in some mass grave in a couple of years anyway.

You quoted my post instead of the Holla Forumsyp's.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Gramsci
Gramsci was of Italo-Albanian descent. This is a perfect example of how there is little to no phenotypical difference between people of pure Indo-European descent and those of mixed Indo-European and Semitic descent, and how you arbitrarily assign phenotypical stereotypes to minorities and then self-BTFO trying to prove that they exist where they don't.

There was no "jewish government", stop making shit up. The Sovnarkom, the actual soviet government, literally had 1 jewish person out of 15 people.

Have you tried reading the image which I posted?
t. self-hating Jew

Imageboards are insanely powerful. We are basically a digital version of the communalists municipality that Bookchin wants. We are the best format for discussing ideas. I remember back when gamergate sent loads of people here, someone made the point that on half/v/ the GG threads were probably the highest volume of people engaging in direct, open discourse in all of human history. There were thousands of people in those threads all replying to each other with cross-linking for maximum efficiency. I was there, I saw a glimpse of our capacity to effectively process information as a meta organism.

That image always gets me.