How do we take back the left which has been overtaken by extremists without being called an alt-right faggot...

Woah wait, what, it's considered extremist in America to act according the scientific proof when it comes to things like vaccines? Shit, things are worse for you than I thought. Is believing the scientific data about climate warming considered extremist as well?

everyone and everything is a part of the spectacle. And all people are completely interpellated if you accept Althusser. You can't escape late capitalism with anything, but suicide or proper revolution.

I think keyword was

This is an improper interpretation of Althusser. The ideological state apparatus does not create ideological determinism; it merely conditions, at best it can, the ideology necessary for it. This is not, as we are the proof of, present in all of us and present to a full degree.

This is a fair formulation, but we can all make the first step as long by adopting the discipline we are all capable of: lacan.com/baddiscipline.html.

Everything in America that involves politics or religion gets called extreme to the point that even people like Bernie Sanders a Social Democrat that is left of center at most was called "too extreme" and "far left."
Hell sometimes I want to slap people upside the head because I see them describe PETA and any one who wants a $15 minimum wage left wing extremists. This is especially bad with the "moderates" who jerk themselves off and act enlightened who are either centre right or sometimes far right pretending to be center.
I'm not sure if the guy you're responding to is American, but sure as hell sounds like it.

sage

You shouldn't be complain about radicalism on a forum of radicals. Also idpol and mass immigration was a creation of liberals and neolibrals not socialists.

You're terrible at false-flagging, Holla Forums.

In America the Green Party is considered to be Stalinist by lots of people. People call out Bernie for being a Social Democrat and calling himself a socialist. However in America Social Democrats are considered Socialists.

You can not separate identity politics from class. Because you can not separate CULTURE from class. PERIOD.

Your race, your gender, your disability, etc. does shape your life.

If you are a black male, you are more likely to be shot by a police officer for no reason.

If you are male, your suffering is going to be ignored by society. Because women have more inherent value in the eyes of society than men in our culture.

If you are disabled (ie. autism, down's syndrome, cripple, etc), people see you as a burden.

You can seprate identy politics from class because it's subjective weather or not there discrimination on Gender/Race/sexuality meaning there may be discrimination, but it's hard to prove. And any proof of discrimination is likely do to outer factors or random chance. However it's objective that the poor are worse off then the rich.

Not murdering your wife is also considered an improper interpretation of Althusser's works

Touché, but read this tho: ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1663&context=alr.

Not all the problems of the world are caused by class. This is class reductionism.

It's lazy to just say "it's harder to prove their racial/gender/disability discrimination."

If I was a woman, even an autistic woman, I would at least have more opportunities to improve my station compared to being a socially inept autistic male. I could marry a rich guy.

but discrimination has its roots in class
therefore, it is not class reductionism to address class

go back to reddit if you dont understand this faggot

Kek.

Also, social democracy is also (actually) practiced by hunderds of millions of people in the world, but it's still liberal.

Discrimination based on Race/Gender/Sexuality is caltrual. Meaning it doesn't always/usually affects you. Class is diffrent because it determins what good you can buy. What quality of life ou have.

I'm not saying ignore class. Address class. But not to the exclusion of race, gender, disability, etc.

Race/Gender/Sexuality are non issues.

Culture and class are intersectionally linked.

A job applicant with a North African sounding name is multiple times more likely to be passed over compared to a job applicant with a French name in France. Even if their job history, education, qualifications are virtually identical.

When a man is unemployed or working poor, he's called a loser, a pussy, man up, pull up your bootstraps, etc.

When a woman is unemployed or working poor, society white knights her like crazy. Single mothers are given far more financial support by the state than single fathers for example.

What proff do you have?

they're orders of magnitude less important than class but they are actual issues that make peoples lives worse under the class system.
they're real but the problem of capitalism is vastly vastly more important than the problem of racism or sexism.

1523891 How does race/gender affect peoples life?

You can acknowledge the existence of racism, sexism and the general disproportionate disenfranchisement of certain demographics without falling for buzzword neologisms like "intersectionality", which posit that sexism, racism, etc. are all atomized phenomena separate from class society as opposed to being emerging properties of class society.

inb4
Class society =/= just capitalism. Class society is also feudalism and slave societies, among others.

race and gender should be excluded until after revolution because any "solution" under capitalism is simply additional exploitation of others - or do you not understand capitalism at all?

and the disabled too - i dont know where this meme came from, but it needs to die, because the mentally ill have no place in politics what-so-fucking-ever

appropriate treatment for them, whatever you deside that treatment should be, can come after a time where our idea isnt to stick them in a home and suck their families for dosh

Intersectionality means that race/gender/disability/etc. are linked to class. Not atomized/seperate.

Yes let's just ignore people with disabilities and treat them like second class citizens…

To be fair this is only really true of attractive white women. You a fat ugly black woman and you're gonna get shit on as much as guys.

Then congratulations: you're using a useless neologism that was already addressed by the penchant of the radical emancipatory politics that is communism, as based on a discursive analysis of matter. "Intersctionality" here functions simply as a buzzword to signal the dominant ideology that you're doing the ritual right.

All the intersectional feminist and anti racists do say it emerges from class. I think leftypol just conveniently strawmans all feminists as Anti Sarkesian and Luis Farakan because they are triggered white boys that want to implicitly up hold white supremacy

Racial, gender, disability problems are not addressed entirely by class. lol.

This is why Holla Forums will go absolutely nowhere and politics is balkanized according to cultural lines.

I'm pretty much one of maybe five members of Team Autist who actually hate the alt-right and support Bernie Sanders. Because the left and liberals completely ignore the struggles of autistic men. Wheres the right is offering them false promises of "join us and we'll get you a full-time job with a living wage and a qt Aryan waifu. We'll give you a role in society." And they fall for that shit because their theory of mind is so impaired that they don't understand that the right is hostile towards the interests of autistic people.

their plights arent necessarily political and depending on their disability their mental functions arent reliably there, to the extent that our own are

they get their treatment as we can give it

You didn't read my first reply to you:

(nor did you watch the fucking WEBM there and read the pic)

Image boards and other types of forums will never go anywhere in real political action.

You're retarded if you think any real politics like that is going to go anywhere any time. Actual spergs all massively supported Sanders IRL, otherwise Hillary (but more Sanders, which I know because I'm also a sperg and know that the Democrats have the disabled and "special needs" people demographic on lockdown and saw a big surge in votes coming from the mentally and physically disenfranchised with the Sanders campaign). Politics don't matter on a fucking image board.

jesus youre fucking retarded

read marx or go back to reddit

I already replied to you. Intersectionality is not about atomization. lol. Race, gender, disability, etc. is linked to class.

That does not mean that a black working class person has the same experiences as a white working class person.

You be black and get your ass beat by cops and then go say that talking about race is divisive.

you just pointed out that a skin group that makes up the majority of the lowest financial class and proletariat gets their ass beat by the very tool the bourgeois use to keep people in line and then said it isn't fucking class related just because irrelevant individual experience says so

you stupid, stupid fuck
your example isnt a fucking racial one

you get the bullet, liberal

this is where robot idpol falls apart basically.
yeah pretty bitches are probably the most socially muh privileged people on the planet, and they even get to act like they're victims because femenism
but the legbeard autists really are not gonna have it any better than neckbeard robots. the MRA shit has alot of valid points but its drowned in delusional crap. JUST LIKE FEMENISM WOAH

>>>Holla Forums

who made you the king of anarchtasia? there was no discussion on that by the collective and you're being a total authoritarian!

Cops are far more likely to shoot/beat up black males than white males.

are you that faggot the thinks leninism and marxism are one and the same

you need to go back to reddit too

consequence of the skewed demographics of the proletariat

What a shitty post.

And what a shitty thread.

You guys don't just go full retarded, you accelerate far and beyond.

the cops treat working class blacks worse than they treat working class whites. Are you fucking blind?

and how is that not a consequence of the skew in proletarian demographics? fucking with a black person = less likely to bite the cop in the ass

like, do you just want to completely fucking ignore material reality because of your feelings?

are you simply fucking retarded?

STOP PRETENDING TO BE A FUCKING LEFTIST UNTIL YOU'VE READ MARX

how are you not banned yet? you too, fucking read marx

How do you even address this point without breaking a shit ton of eggshells? If somebody says yes, then it's expected of them to engage in self-flagellation on the altar of political correctness simply for the sin of not having a large amount of melanin in their skin. If somebody says no, then they're blind (ableist scum) to their (white) muh privilege.
So, question for you: What do you propose to do in the current situation? Do you want the state to deghettoize black communities? Do you want to have police reform? Do you want the capitalists to put more money in black communities? Do you want police to start shooting more white working class people? Or do you just want working class whites to engage in self-flagellation to show their commitment to fighting racism?
What are some solutions you have that don't reinforce state power and capitalist relations?

There needs to be some sort of purge of the reactionary elements within the police force. We need a change of culture within the police force.

And we need to improve the conditions of ghettos (whether it's black communities, Appalachia, Rust Belt, Amerindian communities, etc.) Businesses do not want to set up shop in ghettos. This is the problem with capitalism. Production is geared towards whatever produces the most profit, not what best meets the needs of the people.

reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

...

The justice/correctional system is used as a tool to keep people in line. And its role in keeping black people, especially black men, in line can't be ignored. 1 in 3 black men will end up in jail at least once in their life time.

Slavery is actually legal in the United States. If you are a felon. Look at the 13th Amendment.

We made it illegal to enslave black men just for being black. So we decided instead to lock them up in jail to take away all their rights. And charge them with a felony to take away their voting rights.

We put them in terrible shitty living conditions, which creates shitty people (criminals). And then we justify taking away their rights as citizens, including the right to vote. The majority of those 1 in 3 black men were jailed for drug offenses too. Not serious crimes.

First off, take that flag off.
Second of all, this can't happen under capitalism. The entire function of the police is to uphold property relations, not to protect people. This is why releasing minks into the wild, designated to be skinned for their fur, will land you a longer jail sentence than a rapist.
I don't have an argument against this, other than it needs to be done under a communist context.
You and I both know that unless it's profitable for the capitalists to set up shop, they won't. And when they want to & they see some possible way to make a profit, they will use the police to get rid of the "unwanted", a la portland police arresting/relocating the homeless for parades to go through the town.
No duh?

You can't escape late capitalist ideology though, the perpetuation of the capitalist MOP is in effect in every aspect of your life from social relationships to the choices you make in the market. This is what alienation is at its core, the complete atomization of the individual from all aspects of life, reality replaced by the image of the spectacle separating the individual from reality while unifying them with its image. The reactions we come up with against capitalism are its negations, they are a response to what isn't a part of it. It's critical that we understand that in order for revolution to succeed it must liberate the alienated person from its alienated forms, which is anything that produces class antagonisms.

this is where robot idpol falls apart basically.
yeah pretty bitches are probably the most socially muh privileged people on the planet, and they even get to act like they're victims because femenism
but the legbeard autists really are not gonna have it any better than neckbeard robots. the MRA shit has alot of valid points but its drowned in delusional crap. JUST LIKE FEMENISM WOAH

Why do people here assume that was made by one of /ourguys/ or a fellow brocialist and that liberal there refereed to the SJWs? It could have just as easily been a hysterical reddit socialist who was talking about pro free speech Sargonite liberals, in fact considering the context of the event that was taken at the latter is more likely.

Yes. Which is why Marxists, especially Black Marxists like the Panthers and Angela Davis call for prison abolition, not prison reform. You don't "reform" the cops.

A Liberal is a Liberal. Autistic "skeptics" are liberals, they basically ascribe to classical liberalism, they both believe in Capitalism and the hegemony of the Bourgeoise.

Liberal refers to both groups.

You can't its gone, the liberals completely infected all leftist ideology and academia. If you even breath a word against feminism, gibmedats, the idea of race not existing or wage slavery that could only be uplifted by total restructuring of society and the means of production they think you're a fascist or worse a """"""""""radical""""""""" communist. We are completely fucked, there is no going back, enjoy the ride.

I know they are basically the same and liberal referes to both groups, its just that I think it was very likely that the person who tagged it was a reddit tier socialist, possibly more likely than it was a Holla Forums guy or a "brocialist"

Angela Davis was way before her time. She was arguing for prison abolition in the 70s. Meanwhile in 1988 Michael Dukakis lost the election to Bush Sr. because the perception among the white working class was that he was soft on crime. lol. Good luck getting a prison abolition message across to those people.

Yeah but every time that's tried half of the ones released go on a crime spree (see: The Bavarian Soviet Republic, the post-Stalin mass releases from the gulags)

"Law and Order" is really just code for suppressing the marginalized. And you can fuck the white working class up the ass all you want so as long as you let them know that they are worth more than the niggers.

As marginalized peoples, we should embrace being niggers. You have autistic right-wingers on YouTube who work shit minimum wage jobs at Fry's at the ripe age of 28 years old (ie. Alexander Layko) whining about bums on food stamps. Why on earth is a minimum wage autistic whose still working at Fry's at 28 years old boot licking and scapegoating people on welfare? You should be first in line to receive welfare buddy.

You can't ignore race, gender, etc in society. Race makes white working class people do really stupid shit. Like vote against their economic self-interests.

I've personally tried reaching out to Alexander Layko and told him that as a complete failure in life, he should be voting Democrat. But he never responded to my offer to reach out to him.

t. every neoliberal "We'll fuck you over slightly less than the Republicans, why aren't you a core demographic?" Democrat ever

The establishment Democrats take their base for granted.

Which is why most people who fit my profile (autistic, socially inept, NEET, live with parents in a suburban community) overwhelmingly voted for Trump or didn't vote at all.

I keep saying don't ignore race, don't ignore gender issues, don't ignore autistic people, etc. A lot of men in my situation feel ignored by society and then become MRAs or whatever. The Democrats do not listen and then they lose.

It boggles my mind how people in my situation overwhelmingly vote Republican. But then when I look at the way liberals and even Holla Forums socialists treat men in my demographic, it all becomes so clear. Ignore race, gender, disability issues, etc. at your own peril.

The police is supposed to enforce whatever its state wants it to enforce. You manage to subvert it, and Porky has one trotter in the grave. You manage to subvert the army, and the revolution is won.

So basically you have a fundamentally pessimistic vision of people. They are always bound to chose for tribal ressentiment in spite of their own interests. While in reality, its often the other way around, jim crow laws were a deliberate reaction by the southern ruling class to alliances between working class blacks and whites. Such pessimistic ideas have become popular among liberal commentators, specially after Trump's victory, the idea that humans are inherently tribal and you can't end racism and have economic justice at the same time. It's a very convenient idea for the usual suspects ie. porky, because it narrows down the choice to either fascism or a diverse society were everyone is increasingly miserable. The liberal inteligentsia has come to see itself as the restrainer of the apocalypse, the virtuous few standing between liberal humanist society and the stupid and evil masses inevitably bound to destroy it.

Socialists have been calling for prison abolition since the 1800's. Also, while I understand that the while "racist white workers" meme can be an alluring easy answer for why the West has never seen a meaningful revolution. I'm not saying it doesn't play a role, but do you honestly mean to tell me that the white working class is completely complicit in it's own oppression merely out of resentment to the working class of color? And as fo the Dukakis thing, this is an issue with the Democratic Party, not workers, sociological studies show time and time again that the divide between how people feel about these kinds of issues breaks up on class lines, not racial ones, it's only DNC bureaucrats who are out of touch and keep assuming that all white workers are reactionary, so they need to be as racist as possible to appeal to them. And it makes sense as a strategy, because the only other option is to appeal to their class interests, which of coure no Democrat would ever do.

This. At the end of the day it's only the Bourgeoise and petit-bourgeois that assumes white workers are honestly this racist. At the end of the day it's the white bourgeoisie that votes reactionary, workers, on the other hand, just don't vote at all, regardless of skin color. That's what happens when you're completely alienated by the society around you.