Calling someone lumpen and thus counterrevolutionary because their profession is socially stigmatized or less than lawful is like blaming middle class Jewish financial managers for what Porky does. It seems to be a spook that most Leftists are blind to though.
Why is this?
Other urls found in this thread:
Because Marx detested the lumpen. It doesn't really matter anyway, as Marx was overwhelmingly wrong with regard to the role of classes other than the industrial proletariat. In most places where revolution occured, it was classes such as the peasantry that played a key role
No relation to the means of production are usually referred to as lumpen.
So the prejudices of the architects of the early ideas carried on as flaws in modern thinking?
So the entire service industry is lumpenized?
Lumpen isn't a slur, it just means someone is unemployed, a criminal, homeless, or oddly enough an artist. Basically anyone who isn't apart of the working class, but also isn't Bourgeois themselves. They usually have little to no class consciousness because they exist completely outside of wage labor and most Capitalist social relations.
Modern sex work is different from that of Marx's time though, same with the nasty ass world of drugs. Counter-revolutionary people differ for each time and place.
Why assume that starving artists, criminals, and the unemployed have no class consciousness? Wouldn't these people be even more acutely aware of the precariousness of their position?
Illegalism has serious potential honestly. Imagine massive black "market" syndicates fulfilling the needs of poor people that capitalism doesn't. The beauty of it is that if a CEO is executed and corporate MoP is seized the government deploys the national guard, but if a drug kingpin goes down and the criminal organization gets democratized, to the govt that's business as usual.
Any lefty organizing that tries to work outside of capitalism will ultimately be branded as criminal or more likely terrorist. We'd get ahead of that by being mobsters, who people don't associate with terrorism and romanticize constantly.
Join the Internationalist Communist Mob today!
In service industries you are the MoP (like slavery), which is why the culture of subjugation is omnipresent.
I don't really think that's an option outside of places without tight state controls to begin with. I could see it working in places like the old school company towns of the West Virginia coal mines where Capitalist institutions exist only due to coercive measures, but at best you supplant it with Mutualist competitors in the short term.
If you are the MoP and you have no manger, then doesn't that mean you are emancipated from wage slavery by means of transition to the archaic mode of production?
Regardless, why do you assume counterrevolutionary sentiment is fostered by this?
Kind of. Most work nowadays is precarious, but a relation to wage labor and rent is still a relation to Capital, so they're still Proletarian. Mind you, when Marx talks about the proletariat he didn't just mean factory workers and miners, he just believed that the socialized and unionized nature of that work, as well as their direct relation to socially produced wealth put them in a unique position to overthrow Capitalism. Technically "proletarian" means anyone who does not own land and the means of production. That includes lumpens.
Yes and no. There are reasons Marx believed this then, and reasons Marxists uphold it today. Most attempts to radicalize lumpens have been disastrous, it usually just ends up bringing drugs, mental illness, and incredibly self-destructive behavior into your movement. That being said, I definitely believe in the rights of the lumpen, especially the homeless, sex workers, and those in prison.
Because most leftists are brocialists with no concept of intersectionality. Prostitutes are basically the most thoroughly exploited peoples and 99% of drug dealers are living at wage slave levels while their bosses make billions.
Given that image, are you the escort who browses Holla Forums? You made a thread a long time ago.
Yes.
They can individually, but they're too decentralized to have common goals or demands. There aren't unions for crack dealers, and most artists I know believe they're above politics, or they're outright reactionary. That being said, Leftists should fight for the rights of the lumpenproletariat, and lumpens can be useful, especially artists, Dadaists, Surrealists, the Situationists, all perfect examples of artists putting their energy into an anti-bourgeois project of imagining art beyond the conditions of Capitalist society.
oh fuck is the hooker back?
I generally think the lumpenproletariat classification is not productive. These people are just as capable of class consciousness as any other worker.
Because Capitalism has mutated yet we are still using 19th century language. The idea that hookers or drug dealers or whatever are inherently counterrevolutilnary is fucking retarded and is something that should be opposed. At least if we want to get anywhere before capitalism kills us all.
Post feet.
I wouldn't call the entire service industry lumpen, only the unemployable and welfare leeches.
It is stupid to consider a prostitute lumpen but not a maid or a janitor.
whores are lumpen by definition, but don't feel bad, as lumpen are not counterrevolutionary da sein. they only TEND to be counterrevolutionary because they don't have a real job as any other normal person (prostitution is a totally prescindible job in the society, as only porkies or other lumpens can afford those services) so their sales depends only on the existence of other people, who makes more money than they should (above the abstract value of work), that's why they are not very prolific on adopting class counciousness. now, proletarian means (at least in my language) to be an industrial worker and industrial worker only (not peasants, not fishermen, nor soilders) , and their importance in global revolution lies on the fact that industrial workers do concentrate in strategical value-sources (industries, duh) in urban zones.
also send nudes
Sage whore ("anfem") threads on sight.
op is not the anfem shitposter
Don't bully, she asked a legitimate question
also
That's not how you sage you dumb faggot. Besides, working out a strategy to get sex workers, drug dealers, etc into comrades is better than screeching "REEEEEEEEEE lumpens" at them.
OP, however, is an anfem shitposter.
People are called lumpen as a slur ONLY on this board. There isn't anywhere else, irl or the internet where it's used in that
Reasonable lefties irl recognize the unique position of the PRECARIAT, even this board's darling zizek and that obviously today's left politics must include these people
With the exception of russian peasants most "revolutionary" peasants had no political consciousness. They just wanted food. Don't fall for the maoist meme.
Please take me away from this counterproductive, sectarian shithole.
Another reason why Communalism is superior tbh
Blame Marx
what's Memechin's stance on lumpens? I'm honestly curious.
Bookchin see the "citizenry" (those who participate in revolutionary institutions like the soviets) as the revolutionary agent, which can include lumpens and other non-proles like peasants. Seriously, read him before coming to a conclusion about his theories.
That's because people on this board take Marx seriously unlike the rest of the Left. Seriously, dealing with lumpen on a daily basis is the quickest way to get turned into some kind of lawcuck. Sure, lumpen are part of the proletariat to some extent as part of the surplus army of labor but gangs and other types of organized crime intimidate and pray on the workers themselves mostly.
The illegality of the lumpen economic activity gets romanticized but people tend to forget that organized crime is just another form of capitalism, a particularly vile one at that.
Most lumpens aren't mafioso or gang bangers though. I think the term "lumpen" paints too broad of a brush over a very complicated class
It sound like he's just completely discarding the category of class in favor of a more nebulous idea of "the masses" or "the people"
More like he's viewing things from their position within a system of hierarchy and domination, including but not limited to class.
...
middle class jewish financial managers are porky you fucking retard
Class is a specific relation to means of production, as well as a relation to Capital itself, particularly one of exploitation. Now "exploitation" isn't the same as "oppression", but oppression is much dicier and harder to pin down, it's the reason idpol is such a clusterfuck, pretty much anyone can claim to be oppressed, even when they aren't exploited, so while I appreciate Bookchin's desire to revive a certain idea of Athenian polity I don't know the degree to which a Communalist project would be prepared to handle the vast contradictions of class antagonisms
Sure, but what about the collection gangs or organized shoplifting groups? There's a lot of petty crime and sketchy off-the-books "business" that usually exists in some grey area.
I could go on, yes, its complicated class relationship but typically most lumpen make their livings through illicit activity. You really have to if you can't or wont wage-slave cause even if you get loaded up on NEETbux its rarely enough to keep a normal person satisfied, especially if you have a drug habit.
I didn't even imply that there are plenty of lumpen who are white or from other races.
Yeah Bookchin recognizes the exploitation inherent to class, and that there would be conflicting desires among members of a polity based on their class, but ultimately the power would be with the larger class i.e. the proletariat/peasantry then petite bourgeois or bourgeois who would participate. Let's use Rojava as a case study. Wealthy bourgeois and landowners can participate in the communes but choose not to. Instead, they align themselves with explicitly anti DemCon parties like the KDP backed KNC, which seeks to abolish the TEV-DEM system entirely. Point being, that the bourgeois know that they can't win at the level of the commune/assembly leaving them the only choice to be explicitly against them.
I know people who shoplift and work at the same time. I know people who regularly engage in one kind of illegal activity or another (drug use). This doesn't make them bad people, and most of them are far leaning radical lefitsts like myself. The issue arises more with the kind of institution that's being made by lumpens, if any. Are they making institutions that are meant to dominate and exploit? The issue lies with that question.
It's the same logic you faggot. I grew up in a shit neighborhood where quite people I knew sold drugs because there was no job that could pay for their needs. They would count as lumpen, they certainly aren't preying on workers, and they are more open to radicalization than a lot of the well off liberals I get matched with or have encountered. I would take one of them over 10 college faggots who read Marx before becoming a liberal or academic wank in 10 years.
I think this model makes less sense in places that aren't on the periphery of global Capital, because the degree of hegemony the bourgeoisie holds over society would make any attempt to create an isolated commune of this sort pretty difficult, but I am interested in Bookchin and Communalism, it seems like a good model for establishing Dual Power.
Well, it's important to notice that by "commune", I don't mean the it in the traditional american sense of the word, which usually trust translates to a hippie conclave.The sort of assemblies I'm talking about are meant to be widespread and inclusive, not isolated conclaves. An example of the sort of institution bookchin was trying to propagate throughout the country would be the Burlington neighborhood planning committees. Bookchin's failure to take theory and turn it into praxis has more to do with his own character flaws then flaws in theory. "Being a Bookchinite" is a good essay on this.
*just
something about having the flu seriously effects your writing ability
Absolutely, when talking about communes with other Leftists I always assume we mean it in the sense of the Paris Commune, or the Soviets, Chiapas, or what I assume most of Rojava looks like today, large autonomous communal territories controlled by the proletariat
Also, I'll definitely read that essay, I'm a Marxist but I'm very amenable to a lot of ancom and communalist ideas.
Just checking. Yeah I realize the problem of propagating these institutions in core countries that usually are stable and comfortable for most. You do need to wait for a revolutionary moment to cease to really propagate these institutions, but in the meantime you need to create a vanguard to actually cease that moment. To use Rojava as case study once more, the PYD was outlawed and had to operate in complete secrecy under an authoritarian autocratic state. It was only when the revolutionary moment came about that they could actually implement a system of DemCon.
Basically the tl;dr of it is Bookchin was a great theorist but a shitty leader and politician. Much too neurotic to really create a mass movement.
thankfully apo was able to make up for it
These lumpen organizations start at an organic level but then they grow into full-fledged street gangs/mafias and inevitably they develop an outright capitalist structure themselves and become dominated by lumpen-turned-bourgeois types who get on well with the legitimate bourgeoisie.
So no I don't see the liberating potential, sure it starts as an understandable reaction to a terrible situation but it ends up reproducing the capitalist structure and creating new openings for capitalism at the grassroots level.
Not to mention all the terrible things that are done by organized criminals everything from sex slavery to kidnapping and murder. Again this is not necessarily the typical lumpen experience or that of every lumpen group but it grows into that.
Unless they deal explicitly to bourgeois/middle class types I'd count that as preying on workers. Some people just sell a bit of weed but isn't it also true that when people get involved with those kind of activities they often get involved with other even less-savory activities as well?
Let me share a story about one lumpen at the store I work at, he got pissed that we wouldn't sell him a gun because he had a felony he hadn't gone to trial for, so he walked around the whole store asking people to buy him a gun and then when we asked him to leave he started screaming about how he was going to come back and shoot up the store.
So did this outburst hurt the bourgeoisie? Or us retail workers busting our asses for close to the minimum wage?
Biji Serok Apo
I'm not disputing that these organizations exist. My point was more to judge the lumpen by the institution or lack thereof then simply by the fact that they are lumpen.
My point was never that lumpenproletariat are an inherently revolutionary class, or are self liberating automatically. My point was to simply view the lumpen by the organizations that they are a part of and participate in. Someone can be a pickpocket for a living and still engage in institutions akin to soviets.
I think that it's a stretch to say that the majority of lumpens are part of such groups. Take prostitutes like the OP for example. On a side note, I am curious to see the Maoist perspective on this, considering that Mao utilized organized crime groups for revolutionary purposes.
Source? I'm not being sarcastic at all but I'm genuinely curious about this.
The nationalist government also used crime organizations, almost to the destruction of the chinese communist party from the Shanghai Massacre.
I'm not terribly familiar with it myself. I've heard it mentioned on here before though.
From Mao's "Analysis of the classes in Chinese Society" 1926. Sadly I don't know too much about how they utilized the lumpen population during actual revolution, but I remembered reading this a few years back.
Worth looking into more. Thanks for sharing
>it is you who stigmatizes me!
Here's what makes a lumpen lumpen, in my view. It doesn't mean you practice one of the occupations Marx listed in a book written more than a hundred years ago. Lumpens are people who exploit workers but are not part of the bourgeois power structure. Think drug dealer or con artist. The guy on your Facebook who tries to hustle people into pyramid schemes.
An escort is not necessarily lumpen, if you go by Marx's definition you have to tar all freelancers with that same brush. There are some people who don't produce value directly for the bourgeois system, which means they don't fall into the "worker" category, but don't make their living by exploiting workers, which would put them in the "lumpen" category if not "bourgeoisie". These outsiders can be part of a revolutionary effort, and in fact they bring a perspective that others don't have.
True lumpens are about as useful for revolution as the guys sitting in a corporate boardroom, and for the same reasons. They have a deeply ingrained mindset of exploiting others, and unless they go through some earth-shaking personal revelation, they're never going to change. They're stuck in a world of grinding, hustling, get them before they get you.
I don't know why, but I expected that to be one of the other pics that I have posted here.
Why, do you do fetish modeling?
No, I have just posted here before.
I used to have the other pic, but I think I deleted it.
Too bad.
W-what pics
do you enjoy your job?
aren't the majority of people who seek escorts kind of scumbags?
Sometimes I do, sometimes it's just work.
About 50% are over the age of 50, usually upper middle or lower upper class dudes. Some are scummy, some are lonely, some are just there for a transaction.
Well yeah, I was here for the autism and decent discussion that was the thread about liberal campus feminists a while back, I was just wondering why you tbought that'd be an image you posted.
I wasn't here for that thread.
It's been a while and I was probably drunk, I rember the co-op funding thread and the one where the faggots here sperged out over lumpens though.
Those two I was in.
Hello sex worker comrade!
Why do you start every thread of yours with the same pic?
I for one still think we should appoint the identity of lumpen more to those that have not class con and are not going to have any rather than those that don't "produce".
Also, prostitution is work. It does provide a service and most of us are nowadays providing services and not any real products.
So I'm not mistaken for "generic anfem shitposter" apparently.
Then anybody can be lumpen, which makes more sense than just stigmatizing certain professions. I don't really think that Marx saw the service economy coming.
Sperger reporting in.
I don't really think Marx saw robotics comming either.
And the 60s USSR didn't want to see automation coming or it wouldn't collapse.
The whole "working class" is about to become an old meme and, unless we redifine our ideologies, we'll end up fossils.
I, for one a all pro cybernetics and Cybersyn!
Yeah. So aside from stop being faggots about "lumpens", how do we get more sex workers into leftism? I can't speak with any knowledge about escorts, but from a guy I know who has done camera shit on porn sets and a grill I went to highschool with pornstars classcucked to hell.
Greekfag?
There was an attempt at getting sex workers into leftism back in the 80's. It fell through due to feminist idpol alienating them by offering sex workers arch-victim status. The sex workers who showed up to said conference at the summit of this attempt were independent, high end escorts who received this as deeply insulting and paternalistic. Long story short a fight broke out between high class escort and a top feminist speaker.
You're going to be fighting for mindshare with us against Libertarians until leftism gets unfucked from idpol.
I little note that Marx made on Prostitutes
Sounds interesting, is there a pdf or article on this?
And do you think it is a mistake to group as "sex workers"? I mean there are differing legal issues depending on what you do, different standards of anonymity, and "social standards" that seperates strippers, escorts, pornstars, camgirls, etc. that seem to indicate differing interests or needs. Like you as an escort are operating illegally in most states while the others listed aren't, so it would seem decriminalization for you isn't even on the radar for them.
How do we do this? Especially since socialism would undercut a lot of high end escorts by removal of the exclusive class of clients.
Most porn stars escort or escorted early in their careers before they got a break. Most strippers will escort for the right incentives. It's a fluid dynamic.
The book is "Sex Workers Unite", it goes into a lot of detail.
Next election we'll need more Bernie type figures, while at the grassroots level you have to be militant about calling out the cancer where you see it.
Most escorts are only escorting to transition to something else. Socialism offers a better alternative to dependence on sex work to do this.
I guess that makes sense. Do you only escort to protect anonymity?
Do you have a pdf?
Way ahead of you there.
Do you have any advice on direct appeals for this? Aside from telling some Marxists to cool their autism.
Partly
No.
I've got nothing at the moment.
And the other is ease of entering and leaving while doing uni?
Fuck.
Well how about shit to definitely avoid?
It's low visibility so it's easy to keep it on the dl while finishing college.
Definitely avoid anything patronizing or paternalistic when talking to escorts. We don't like being talked down to.
Do your friends and family know? And are you going to keep it dl if publicly organinzg, working, or in general for personal life?
So pretty much don't slutshame and treat them like adults?
my sides, this stupid nigger literally thinks Athens was a democracy
Nope. I'm probably going to keep it dl in general.
Pretty much.
W-why would you say that user?
Oh, you mean people don't like having a faggot telling them what to do and how to do it?
Not wonder I only pay my union to secure my job and not care for any activities…
Well, someone has to do the hard labor.. and since Athens didn't have robots… But yes, ti had far worse problems in it's democracy but people tend to idolize it, instead of looking at Aristophanes to have a genius popular critic of the Athenian "democracy" and it's corruption.
Are you scared of being outed if you publicly organize? Or being blackmailed with leaking it to your bf/gf, friends, and family? Porky is a slimy fuck after all.
There was a greek fag who used that flag.
hmmm
Not particularly. If someone pulled that I'd simply be angry with very little to lose reputation wise, so it wouldn't be a smart move on their part.
I-I don't know anything about this…
It's not like it's that time of year when am doing nothing at work and choose to shitpost my way through the night or anything…
Well, threre are ways, without robots.
One is to equally distribute is. So, more people doing the heavy work for less time.
Other is the heaviest the labor the more the "pay".
And actually, why not both?
Why do I have to work 8 hours while someone else is without work? Why not both of us working 4 and get equally rewarded so we can both live good lives?
Cause the Capitalist wouldn't make profit, that's why!
So no plans to get any leadership positions in an organization? Or do you mean your friends and bf/gf won't care too much if they found out?
And how do we specfically deal with lolbert sex workers? You've mentioned before they have inroads and will be leftists biggest competition, are there any weaknesses in their rhetoric to exploit?
I may shoot for leadership in something like SWOP without revealing my whole hand.
That's a tricky one. They mostly gravitate to that idea because Leftist idpol and Conservative paternalism made them pariahs in both ideologies while libertarians tolerated them and praised them as entrepreneurs. It's hard to overcome that.
there is a finite supply of strong people user
then strong and smart people will become a class unto themselves and will have massive sway over resource allocation and social organization
no one is entitled to work, if you have a right to something then there is a correlating inverse duty you are vested with in return. for instance the right to remain silent also goes with the duty to testify truthfully. the right to private property goes with the duty to maintain your property and be wary of others property and possibly be held liable for what happens to your property by the State. So having a right to work means a whole lttany of vested work related duties spring up. Which is oppressive and unnecessary.
You presuppose so many things m, this is why im starting to dislike this board despite its obvious superiority to Holla Forums and reddit faggotry
Sex Worker Outreach Project?
Are we talking sjw shit or muh lumpens? Because I've noticed the former pissing over a lot where a new movement may be possible to build.
Maybe. If COYOTE were still around I'd prefer it.
We're talking sjw shit with the leftist idpol.
This is what I'm wondering. Will calling for a new society which abolishes sex work alienate sex workers? On the one hand I get how its kind of insulting imply their work is dirty and would be cleansed in a better world. Still I imagine most sex workers aren't under the impression their work is glamorous and would prefer to do something else if they had the opportunity.
To clarify I am talking about messaging which says a plus of socialism is no one will have to do sex work out of desperation, not messaging that says it should be criminalized. Do you think that would appeal to sex workers?
ACTUALLY as my blacksmith father used to say, it takes more smarts thatn strength to do manual labor.
not if it is done by an indipendent council that uses a network and the statistics are published and so on..
I fail to see how. By the same reason it's oppressive to have right to healthcare, for you;d have to remain healthy.
Also… ye… Private Property is a spook.
I thought we had all agreed to that.
What about non-sexwork orgaizations or a coop? From what you've posted I get the impression that escorting isn't your long-term plan.
That's cracking and only being uplifted by certain media outlets and moderators these days. I got a former sjw berniegurl to admit it was bullshit the other day and Trump is sowing disatisfaction with the right more everyday.
OP I don't know much about the nature of your work personally. But from my personal experience seeing prostitutes I met off backpage, many of them tend to rush the guy and just want to get us off and get us off as soon as possible. I prematurely ejaculated 10 mins into the session (she barely sucked my dick, and i fucked her a little bit. But because she rushed me I had trouble maintaining an erection).
So she gave me a hand job (it wasnt getting me hard enough) and then i started feeling up her body while i was jerking myself off trying to get hard again. And i accidentally prematurely ejaculated. And then she kicked me out. $60 for 10 mins of half-assed rushed work. That isn't a labor aristocracy?
I understand the nature of the work is dangerous. But not all of us are dangerous clients. And we are the ones who end up feeling used after these transactions. When these girls rush us, get us out ASAP, take our money, have absolutely no desire to satisfy us. So many of these girls have no business being in the profession. They hate their jobs and suck at it. The funny thing is that girl lost me as a customer forever and i will leave her negative reviews. If she was nice to me and eager to please, i would have come back and wrote her good reviews.
I was not the only one! Thanx user!
Well, that would mean she does it because she sees it as a career and so on, and that capitalism actually benefits the customer.
It doesn't.
I know. What I am asking is will it appeal to sex workers if leftist messaging directed at them is under our society you wouldn't have to do this. It just seems hard to take this direction without adopting a paternalistic SJW-esque tone.
while this is partially true the idea that this invalidates my point about high baseline strength being necessary for certain high intensity labor, which most can never have, is ridiculous. you aren't disproving me at all.
i don't need to say any more
besides the unrelated fact that you are holding the collective hostage with your possibly retarded decision making (called the moral hazard in economics and public policy). you are then cupable for what you do to your body, and since the state is bank rolling your health they may mandate that all people who receive health care must be vaccinated, must pass regular psyche evals and possibly submit to medication, must take regular physicals, must receive treatment or lose their coverage, must report their health to the state, and then of course must not interfere with others abilities to fulfill these duties. there are more than that, in fact there as many as legalistic minded people could come up with, which i assure you is a near infinite number of duties. one right=a trillion burdens. no need for any of that shit.
that's not the point, it is a spook (so is collective property or the commons by that logic though, but it works on the same basis as all other rights. its no more or less justified than the right to vote, free speech, silence, trial by jury, religious freedom etc
I thought we had machines for that.
Well… The State could take care of remiding you and so on.. .. even… a computer could do it for you… I see nothing wrong with this….
...
It doesn't.
Capitalism is all about leverage.
As soon as my cash is on that night stand, she has all the leverage. But $60 was all that she would ever get out of me because after that careless performance I have no incentive to ever see her again. Even though she is a smoking hot young woman. I'm going to take my business elsewhere and see one of the many other girls out there. In the end it's her loss. You can't maintain a very profitable business off continually turning new tricks. You need repeat business. It's clear that this 19 year old girl (according to her ad, her real age is probably somewhere in her early 20s though because I've seen her ad for over a year now and she's always been 19) doesn't have the foresight to understand that repeat business is the most important thing in this industry. A lot of these girls lack business sense. I heard a rumor on the internet once that she seemed stoned once. I think she may be on drugs and all she gives a fuck about is getting her next hit?
It's definitely clear that she doesn't have the mind or the passion for the business. I've been with prostitutes before who were all like "nervous? just lay down and relax while I suck your dick, I'll take good care of you baby." "I want you to cum in my mouth baby" "cum all over my face."
And then there are the many girls who want to do as little work as possible and get you out as quick as possible.
Wtf meant to post pic related
get it together user
shaming socially inept awkward autistic guys is the reason why Elliot Rodger sprees happen in society. Ignore this at your peril. You never know when some socially awkward kid from college/high school you made fun of will pull a gun on you next.
is this a different person? we were talking about without machines in the context of an Athenian level of civilization circa 600-300 BCE. there are certain tasks, specifically like warfare and heavy duty masonry/sailing/metalworking which generally require higher than normal levels of strength. Which means a select group of people are going to be able to do that labor, therefore if you don't want weaklings fucking up the labor, you must compensate the strong men more than everyone else.
Machines brings up a whole different problem, that has the same structure but a different result than this one. Namely that engineers and scientists become the new high intensity, high compensation elite. And engineering and science require high autism levels which are not found in most people especially outside of Asia and Europe
Embrace absurdism
Again, that implies she sees herself doing it for a long time or sees you as a potential casual. If she doesn't and only does it because she has to, OR if she has a "boss" over her and is going to do just enough.. OR, most possibly, sees you as a small fry not worth of focusing in, why would she care?
It's like me working in the hotel, now. Since the tourists come here organized and we don't care that much about them coming back, am only gonna do just enough. Why would I treat them any better than the standard?
Nope. That's neoliberal BS. As long as I get enough, I'll do enough. Just enough.
And this is capitalism in it's core, no matter how much you want to avoid seeing it.
The more alienated you get, the less you care about your work. Especialy if you only do it because you have to and would rather be doing anything else.
And the more mass production you do, the more alienated you get.
Basicaly, we are all whores of Capitalism.
… Ok…. I'll now stop.
Doing "just enough" is not enough in this business. If she has a pimp and she's not bringing in repeat business, her pimp is going to drop her ass. Maybe even (God forbid) beat her ass. And then she would be out of a job and then she has to go get a real job. If she could get a decent real job, she wouldn't be doing this. Because it's obvious that this isn't the right line of work for her.
Not sure if you noticed but there are tons and tons of girls on backpage. She is easily replaceable (which is why I'm not seeing her again). The only thing that sets her apart from many other girls is that she is hot. Maybe that's the only reason why her career even survived more than a year. I just looked up backpage and I don't see her ad anywhere. Maybe she finally left the business since I last saw her (a few weeks ago). Because it's so clear that she is in the wrong business.
Even if she just treated this as a temporary thing for herself, if she had more hustle she would have earned more money by putting in good performances and got out of the game quicker.
There was another really hot young girl I saw 4 years ago who built a reputation for herself as a solid performer. And she made a ton of money. But then she got burned out quickly and then left the business and never returned. It was a means to an end for her too. But she made so much fucking money during her run. She was far more successful and she was indepedent. No pimp. She retired within 9-10 months or so. She came back briefly a couple times and then retired from the business again.
Being a ho is not the same thing as being a hotel worker. If you're a good performer, if you get good reviews, you can start charging more money. The hot girl who half-assed it is just one of many backpage girls who just put in the bare minimum, get paid the bare minimum and then leave the industry within a short period of time.
This is a different kind of industry.
When I don't feel like cooking and just want to fill my stomach up, I'll buy a medium pepperoni pizza for $6 or a medium cheese pizza for $5.
If I just want a nut, I'm not going to call her up. I'm going to jerk off. You have to give me more than a nut for me to bother to come see you. It's extremely short-sighted to just put in the bare minimum and lose a client forever.
I'm self-employed myself and realize that sometimes it's not worth while to try to win over excellent clients who are not worth the hassle. But I'm just a socially awkward dude who is lonely. I'm not a problem client. Give me a reason to call you next time instead of seeing another girl or jerking off to porn.
*p roblematic was filtered to excellent
Again, if you have a boss they want just enough.
Thus, the less you care, the less you give. And if you have enough mass, you don't need repeat.
Sure, there is enough reserve army of labor, but it's also about the target audience.
What if she didn';t care about "more money" and only about "enough money"?
Again Capitalism and Calvinist Work Ethics don't apply to everyone. Some of us want.. just enough. And it more or less is becoming the same as every job with a boss and so on, as the reserve army grows and your "expertise" becomes more and more obsolete. As the ammount of available workers grow, the ones for the plebs become more and more common and unwilling. If you were to pay… 200 or something am pretty sure you'd get far better service.
Again, you are not a problem client but you are not a big fish either. Why would she care about you? Especialy if she doesn't like what she's doing?
There are girls, like I guess OP will confirm, that actually like what they are doing and don't expect you to be a big fish to give it to you. But again, the more the army of labor grows.. the more it becomes fast food industry.
It's only Capitalism.
And so, if you don't want to work you have to have the option not to work. And this is socialism.
I was gonna go out tonight, but your autism killed any hope of me popping a stiffy.
Most people hate their jobs, I can't blame a girl for not being enthusiastic about fucking a bunch of old dudes and weirdos anymore than a janitor not being happy about cleaning up messes made by little shits and their dumbfuck parents.
Made me kek
This one gets it!
...
What mass? What target audience? She's cheap. But my right hand and a Kleenex box is far cheaper. You're basically paying $60 for an experience that is inferior to masturbation compared to $0 for masturbation. From the point of view of the consumer, what is even the point in seeing her again when there are so many other girls (reserve army of labour) you can see?
Why would a pleb even bother with her shit service in the first place? Masturbation is better and cheaper.
It's also not necessarily true that more expensive girl = better service. Some girls charge a lot and they are still terrible.
The best thing from the consumer's perspective is to read reviews and only go to girls who are well-reviewed (and even then, your mileage may vary. I saw that girl who had glowing reviews. But she seemed tired/burnt out or something when I finally got to see her. She retired from the business 4-5 months later so I think she was just burned out). But it's a Catch 22 situation because if clients never see girls who aren't reviewed, how are new girls supposed to get reviewed? And there were times where I took a chance on a girl who wasn't reviewed and I was happy with her attitude. One girl totally blowed me away (I paid her $240 for an hour but there are girls who charge the same and they are total primadonnas and don't give a shit).
Fast food serves some sort of role at least. Like I said, if I don't feel like cooking, I'm tired of eating peanut butter/nutella sandwiches or whatever and I just want something to fill me up, nothing fancy, I'll get a medium cheese pizza for $5. Medium pepperoni for $6 if I find cheese too plain. There is literally no redeemable quality to a bad escort no matter how cheap she is. A nut costs $0 and some Kleenex.
Most people hate their jobs. But if you can't be arsed to try to put in a good performance as an escort, you're not going to make much money in the industry. You're not going to last in this industry. An escort who sucks at her job is worth less than a www.blacked.com subscription.
It's clear to me that you have never hustled in your life. As someone who works in precarious grey market self-employment, repeat business is crucial.
The more successful you are, the less she has to work. The earlier she can quit the game.
It is extremely short-sighted to get complacent and only put in the bare minimum.
This isn't Holla Forums, we have no idea how much that is worth faggot.
Well, not everyone thinks as you. Some people will prefer eating at a tavern than cooking for themselves. Even as a social status way.
And there is no point in seeing her again, but there are enough people outhere there that will go for her because cheap and pretty, for her to survive long enough.
It's fast food.
So, since the rise of metacritic and so on, sales on certain games should have fallen and so on.
Yet people fall for the marketing.
Who would have thought that propaganda and "that's what everyone else is doing" would be more effective than "an informed consumer audience"?
So, the whole "consumer reviews" and "voting with your wallet" will always fall flat, as there are enough idiots outhere to keep bad business going. In every part of the services industry.
It's not the same thing as eating at a tavern or fast food. I've already explained how it's not the same. I actually enjoy eating at a tavern. And I eat fast food like 2-3 times a week because it's convenient. She is not more convenient than my right hand and Xhamster. When I go out to see a whore instead of having another evening with my hand, the whole point is to treat myself. And when the girl had a bad attitude, puts you in a shit mood, wants to rush you, it's worse than masturbation.
Again that is your personal experience and ideas.
The fact that you don't like and will not watch the next Transformers movie does not mean it will not have an audience.
Same, the fact that these girls find clients, even if fro one time, means there is enough audience to sustain them, even if for a short time, they will keep doing the bare minimum.
see… the more a market opens the more the quality drops, unless you are rich and so on.
Capitalism 101.
This is a buyer's market. There are so many girls to choose from. If you don't perform at work, your ass is fired. Your ass is replaceable. Because there's a bunch of hungry unemployed people in the Reserve Army of Labour ready to take your place. It's the same situation in the escorting biz.
Come on dude, that's clearly not how actual Nazi Holla Forumsacks see the World. Come on don't be disingenuous
:(
How did you end up being in escort? This thread is bretty interesting
It absolutely is you faggot. Go gargle Trump's cum or hang yourself.