On Holla Forums Subversion

Much fuss has been made over the recent Holla Forums thread wanting to undermine this board in order to distract us from real world action, which is what our goal should be. Most of their apparent attacks so far have centered on posting the same fat people, or making threads about non-issues. However, I highly suspect that this isn't the only way that they are trying to undermine the board. This is because there is such a thing as "masking". Overt attacks are used to mask subtle diversions and distractions. How does this work, you ask? It's simple. When the board is flooded with obvious Holla Forums threads and posts, we tend to ignore the smaller infractions that we would usually recognize as a subversion attempt, like pushing idpol, and other such things. Thus, we slowly slide into a territory that we previously would have never ventured and those outside the board will tend to ignore what we say, or we ourselves will have picked up ideas that seem valid because they have become common on this board. So what can we do about it?
1) Ignore overt Holla Forums bait. Report and hide. No responses, no sage.
2) Be on the lookout for covert subversion. This is anything that distracts from class-consciousness, creates board drama, or otherwise causes us to veer away from solid theory.
3) Post quality content. The best way to do this is to actually read theory, and related it to the real world. That way we can keep getting educated while not becoming stagnant.
4) Board freedom. This is more for the vols and BO. Over-policing of this board will not result in us ousting the Holla Forums menace. It will simply turn us into an echo chamber like Holla Forums has become, with no new ideas allowed to penetrate. Thus, do not delete obvious native shitposting, but be on the lookout for those that have no post history or only seem to post about subjects that distract from class consciousness.
5) Self-policing. Posters should not respond to bait threads, but if you see covert subversion, call it out for what it is and make an argument. It's not enough to be like Holla Forums and say someone is making a "slide thread". Instead, refute the argument, then call it a subversion attempt. This way, that argument has nowhere to go from there.

Now, so far these are my own ideas. Of course, I could be wrong, but this is a usual strategy to push self-destruction of groups that are targeted. Holla Forums is already dead because their ideas are stagnant. Do not let this happen to us. Instead resist subversion by thinking critically and posting quality content. Your mind is your greatest weapon.

I agree user. It's really hard to tread the line between bashing idpol so hard you let in actual MRAs and discussing racism and sexism so much you let in actual SJWs

Holla Forums is very much wanting us to either go hard to the right, or hard into idpol like them. If they can make us like the tumblr caricatures in their heads, then they will have won. We cannot let this happen. Instead, let's acknowledge class as fundamental, while acknowledging that injustice exists. MRAs have legitimate gripes, but their gripes cannot be solved by idpol, the same goes for feminists, blacks, and other groups.

/8pol/ has always been here, so how is this /4pol/ activity in any way a change? Stop giving them credit for doing essentially nothing.

Maybe I'm giving them to much credit, but this strategy would solve the 8/pol/ problem as well.

Project Chanology for a new age.

We're not anonymous. We're Socialists, it therefore follows that we should be doing real-world things in order to affect the real world. Meme magic doesn't exist, so if you want to move forward, I suggest you get to work, or maybe you're just a lifestylist that doesn't actually care about any of this.

Why would it, exactly?

Because they are trying to shift the tone of the board by covert subversion. They'll throw randomly and try to hit, and if they attract enough redditors or tumblrtards, they will outnumber us and shit up the board, but only if their posting goes unchallenged. Otherwise, these redditors and tumblrtards will simply wake up and leave idpol behind and we'll be stronger for it.

This is a self-correcting issue, because these liberals are so pathologically unlikable that we will reject them anyway.

Yes, but as I said, the uptick in overt attacks will make them seem less egregious by comparison. They might even start to look like allies.

...

We've had more threads and posts where different branches of socialism are shitted on than before. This is hardly coincidence, although it's a given on this board with various socialists. However, it reduces the quality of discussion on the board and drives us further apart. This was one of the methods mentioned on that screencapped Holla Forums thread. This kind of sectarianism needs to be called out as well.

low enegee SLED BRRAD

dis guise and ignor

::DdDD

Correct. It's one thing to critique another brand of socialism. It's a whole other to shit on them with nonsensical attacks.

I'd agree with this and something beyond muh trashcans or muh gulags would be nice, but shitting on trots is too hard to let go.

bump
another overt attack wave currently underway

If we got rid of trots, leftcoms, and egoists, this board would be a better place. Other than the obvious Holla Forums attempts, they are the ones I see causing the most sectarianism.

Yes, but those people are usually arguing in good faith.

There are maybe 2 trots apart from myself on this board and they have never incited sectarianism. In fact trots are all the more eager to compensate for their sectarian reputation.

Fuck off trot

Yeah, trot posters are usually just joking around because of the "fucking trots" meme.

Actually anarchists are by far the most sectarian people on the board.

I see anarchists and marxists going at each other all time and a lot of the time it feels like false flagging, so I don't include them. I also see quality conversations between marxists and anarchist that get derailed by others forcing sectarianism.

So anarchist sectarianism is just false flagging that gets written off but everyone else is held accountable? I also see leftcoms and trots providing good discussion across the board so why don't they get a pass?

If it's true then your theory (or your understanding of it) is not solid.

The worst thing Holla Forumscould do is get in your head. Seems like you are letting them. Your suggestions are good though, I'll try to keep to them.

wow, what a great idea!

Like most people here, I'm still learning. I doubt most people here have a solid theoretical base.

Don't lump me in with the guy trying to kick people out. I was just pointing out that I see anarchists being sectarian far more than anyone else.

Most of the sectarianism on this board would be either obviated or rendered useful if Holla Forums took a more active role in organising stuff irl. It's a lot easier to idly snipe at people when nothing of consequence is happening.

We aren't doing any subverting. We come on here to laugh at your shit memes and tell you how retarded you guys are.

...

Most of them are already becoming socialists, of the Nationalist variety.

Who lied to you?

They're literally traditionalists that believe identity is the foundation of politics.

MRA association with the right is almost entirely down to ideological feminists on the left being extremely territorial about gender politics rather than there being anything on the right being inherently compatible. It's also quite uneasy as the mainstream right tends to favour traditionalist gender roles which MRAs typically view as exploitative. Actually been seeing some anarchists and assorted lefties popping up in MRA circles recently which is nice to see.


They're literally not and even popularised the term "tradcon" (traditionalist conservative) as a pejorative term for people who want a return to traditional gender roles.

I googled the term and I got a page saying "all feminists are tradcons".

Internet gender politics are little more than a pissing contest.

If they have arguments, let them post I say.

That's a common view because they often see feminism promising to free both men and women of traditional gender roles, while feminists in the political and legal spheres then go on to act in ways that exploit and enforce those roles for men. To be honest, I can see how they arrive at that opinion given the way that mainstream libfems go about things. Maybe you should actually read that page and see what it says?

And while I agree that internet gender pol is usually a victimhood contest, I think you'll probably see the "men's movement" continue to grow in the coming years and there is fertile ground there for anticapitalism if lefties would stop being so precious and get their hands dirty.

I really, really don't care. Take that as you will.
It might seem like it at a glance, but this kind of shit is volatile and dangerous to touch. Gender politics are one of the very few things I agree with Mautists about when they say the first world is unfit for revolution; it's why I am still skeptical of so-called "socialist feminists" as well.

Hey, you do you. No skin off my ass. But sometimes is helpful to actually be informed on topics you might have to engage with if you're serious about agitating for a political position. If you're just after a pseudo-political subculture to be part of than no big deal.

I would also like to add that shitposting is fine in my view, long as it's aimed at Holla Forums, /liberty/ and cointelbros. Shitposting against fellow comrades promotes sectarianism and through it Holla Forums subversion.


Of course they have to come to the subversion thread itself. It's time to go back, Holla Forums. Your tactics are recognized and aren't working.

I agree, which is why I am glad these pissing wars are mostly online.

Holla Forums will always remain online. We, however, must do things offline. A lot of people made fun of those anarchists filling in potholes, but that's exactly the sort of thing we need.