And then the state will wither away

No one actually believes this part, right?

Other urls found in this thread:

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/ch03.htm
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Nobody believes in your stateless states either, anarkiddy.

Not even one reply in and it already started

No they do OP. They believe it 100%

Gee, we sure haven't all seen this shallow "refutation" of Marxism a thousand times over.

The logic behind the theory is that, in the absence of the parasite-class, there will be no need for any large-scale repression and thus institutions like a police, standard army, and prisons will be gradually phased out if they haven't been done away with already. I have never seen a serious anarchist challenge to this claim.

Yes we do. Just not with stalinist states. The first step to making the state wither away is to have socialism, instead of making the state larger and less democratic.

The whole point is to delegate the tasks of the state to society so that in the end there isnt a state as we know them today.

I do. Stalinists just didn't get the other part that is prerequisite to nullifying the State's reason of being. (That is, actually establishing the socialist mode of production):
>But, the transformation — either into joint-stock companies and trusts, or into State-ownership — does not do away with the capitalistic nature of the productive forces. In the joint-stock companies and trusts, this is obvious. And the modern State, again, is only the organization that bourgeois society takes on in order to support the external conditions of the capitalist mode of production against the encroachments as well of the workers as of individual capitalists. The modern state, no matter what its form, is essentially a capitalist machine — the state of the capitalists, the ideal personification of the total national capital. The more it proceeds to the taking over of productive forces, the more does it actually become the national capitalist, the more citizens does it exploit. The workers remain wage-workers — proletarians. The capitalist relation is not done away with.
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/ch03.htm

Institutions are perfectly willing to work to preserve themselves entirely for their own sake

Tbh, what else was this shit thread in the first place? Also, forgot to sage for shit thread.

that was withering away of the state if I ever seen one

What did you expect from a thread like this?

It will, it just didn't in Russia.

Russia was a 3rd wolrd Czartist shithole. Communism needs some aspect of Capitalism for a proper Revo.

The USSR was just the Russian Empire 2.0

Nobody ever seems to answer this question.


Any group with a monopoly on coercive force happily replaces the parasite class with themselves for their own personal benefit

Back to Holla Forums polyp.

I agree with everything before you said this.

And what would this personal benefit be in a communist society?>>1506415

thats a retarded question

when there is no coercive parasite class is only when the communist society can exist

At least tankies say the state will at some point wither away when they're developed enough.
anarkiddies are content to go around telling you the state is already gone as they send you to their gulag.

The proletarian state is not a class. The other user claims it can become one after the revolution, for some personal benefit. I wonder what that benefit could be.

Leninists just use it as an excuse to justify their secret police, slave labour and warmongering.

The narchos did exactly the same in Kekalonia, so it would seem one's opinion on the state is not of much relevance.

If a communist noticed this issue in their plans, they would notice that THEY are to blame when the government turns to "state capitalism". Their plans allow the government to gain power because "There is no other way! Those who think the government can just disappear are fools".
The communist is the statesman best friend.

What secret police did Catalonia have? Who did they invade?

this is what marxists actually believe

Haha oh wow.
WHO will wither it away? Will it voluntarily stop existing after certain criteria are met, is that what you're saying?
Why would it decide to stop existing when it has a perfectly good population of proles to exploit?

treating the state either as if it doesn't exist, or treating it as if whatever it doesn't matter because it's in the name of communism and you'll get rid of it later are both bad strategies.

Reminder that Holla Forums is trying to subvert our board with sectarianism

Fuck, not r/the_donald. How will we ever recover?

Don't really care if Holla Forums is here to learn or here to cause chaos. They're still learning things in the process either way and I'm comfortable enough with our grasp of theory.

This is a pretty fucking naive view of history

Republican Catalonia was never a unified state. It didn't have the ability to invade because it was fighting a war for it's very survival. (which it failed at, like most anarchist states)

Hell, it wasn't even completely anarchist, in fact the state syndicalism seemed to be more effective at organization. Not to mention the myriad other factions

The mere fact that it exists in your mind as "Catalonia" and not "Republican Spain" proves this

The anarchist Spain that exists in your mind is a fantasy and a spook

you keep using that word

Gulag yourself, subverter

Destroying Holla Forums with sectarianism? Isn't it like pissing in an ocean of piss?

Telling marxists to go to >>>/marx/ and anarchists to go to >>>/anarcho/ is antithetical to the unifying nature of Holla Forums.