Should we start our own political party in America? fuck off Leftcoms A leftypol party of sorts...

Have you even read Bookchin?

He very specifically advised against participating in pre existing parties.

Not even communalist, but jfc at least read the book of the ideology you claim to subscribe to

parties are a waste of time and will only create targets if they actually manage to amount to something

Also I'm pretty sure it's disrespectful to both the iww and slp to combine them. They literally split from each other.

It's not worth it to the iww to recruit from the tiny party, and it's not worth the SLP old timers to have to bother with the iwws idpol.

Have you ever considered not being dogmatic?

When is the last time any of these tiny American parties have had any influence at a national level, besides serving as spoilers for presidential elections?

And forming your own caucus can also be said to be the equivalent of forming your own organization/"party".

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The radical left will always be targeted

There is literally no form of organization that can avoid that.

When is the last time parliamentary politics changed the system from within

You're a pretty shitty communalist if you don't focus on the municipal level m8

It's not even about dogma, because you literally disagree with communalism.

It's like not believing in Jesus Christ's divinity but calling yourself a Christian

What's the fucking point?

Actually make that "When is the last time political infiltrators changed a system from within". In which case plenty of times.

The last US election putting people like Bannon and Stephen Miller in the white house.
Neoliberal infiltrators destroyed the British labour party.
Deng Xiaoping outmaneuvering his successor.
That buffoon Gorbachev that destroyed the SU.

You can in practice subvert an established system. Which often is a lot more effective than founding a movement which can only succeed if the existing system (violently) collapses.

Quit with the idea you cannot do both. My answer was specifically in relation to the question of "If you want to participate in parliamentary politics, how to do it?".

You're arguing again an argument I never made.

Forgot to take off shitposting flag

Why? We're only going to object to the creation of a party if it's parliamentary socdem shit.
You don't want to participate in elections, right?

…right?

Given the subsequent replies to this suggestion, I propose a compromise that I think could suit everyone.

OK, instead of all us joining a large existing party, how about we instead join a small existing party? Doesn't really matter how moribund said party is, because our politics (if they're any good) will bring vitality to the organisation.

That way, we get the benefits of whatever national/international infrastructure they might have (spaces, equipment, etc), without being subject to the discipline of a mainstream party (because they will purge the fuck out of a red if they catch wind).

If there's some aspect of the existing party's politics we don't like, we keep the disagreement civil (takes practice but is doable, most politics is just the art of not nibbling b8), but firm, and make sure that our own further recruitment efforts trend toward our side of the debate. If/when our recruiting efforts pay off, we'll end up with a majority in favour of our viewpoint, and will have established a tradition of comradely debate around points of disagreement instead of Life of Brian-style splitting at the first sign of trouble (as seems to want us to do, and as notes has already happened w/the same organisation mentioned).

Getting together an actual party would be helpful for another reason I can think of, too. There are a lot of ideological debates on this board, but having an actual organisation would help to clarify some of those debates, since people would be forced to put their perspectives into actual action instead of disappearing into their own navels, as people are wont to do when they have no hard reality on which to test their ideas.

I note that all of the infiltrations you describe were right-wing in character. I think that such a strategy is effective for right-wingers, since moving any organisation rightward is 'going with the grain' as it were, in that it aligns the organisation more closely with the awfulness and brutality that is naked capitalism.

As a final note,I want to add that I think internal party democracy is the key to avoiding rightist deviation and opportunism. The failure of most left-wing parties attempting to participate in parliamentary politics is that they end up tacitly accepting a situation where one person has disproportionate power (because you can only have one/a few parliamentary reps). Their goal becomes retaining their power, which requires accommodating the demands of the bourgeois state.

Well, you fuck off too. Leftcom is the best position to take as a communist. Everything else is crap.

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Oppurtunist

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Start a coop instead you larper

most politically active ideologies aiming for communism are absolute shit and leftcoms are not one of those

this thread is a poorly veiled m-l aka not socialism recruitment strat

May as well just start a standard business for all the difference it'll make.

Because engaging in boirgeoisie democracy will surely work this time

False dichotomy, they both suck.

Like both ur mum and sister

#rekt

black flags are all retarded

Fuck off, LARPer. There are plenty of leftist organizations in America that are not neoliberal cancer. You would know this if you weren't an armchair leftist

name 1

Co-Ops are mutualist

exactly

Ok take the PSL for example. Relatively small tankie organization. I'm really not sure how the neoliberalism would fit into that ideology

I'd rather go to Rojava. If you really want to do it the mainstream way, subvert a party that actually matters. In America that's either dems or the GOP. Anyone else isn't good for anything but being a spoiler during the presidential elections.

Charisma and financing is what brings vitality.

Climbing the ladder is about fellating the one above you, making yourself good, taking any credit you can, having the money for your own initiatives and knowing when to stab and twist a knife in somebody's back.

"Right wing" is a useless epithet. Deng wanted to develop capitalism and end poverty, Bannon wants an honest to god Nazi masturbation fantasy.

Deviation is avoided through discipline, organizational culture, the sheer will of the people around you and the charisma and influence of the orthodox. You can have direct democracy and still get subverted.

If you want to change mainstream politics make sure you have deep pockets, powerful friends, a slick talk, good looks, a towering charisma and big cojones.

nigger do you see my flair

im going to bed

Meant ra.ce war

Get some sleep anarkiddo

You say this like it was a bad thing

Ancoms are closet tankies

I find it stupid that anyone would identify as just an ancom.

Isn't there like 80 different ancom sects?

Yes indeed

Who

ALTLEFTGANG

here?

The alt-left already exists and it is called post-left

If you look at those who the corporate media are criticizing as "alt-left" (Bernie Sanders, The Intercept, Jacobin, etc.), it's anyone who adheres to something even remotely resembling the Old Left. As there is the right (clean-cut neoliberalism with reactionary hints) and the alt-right (a particularly pathetic form of neo-Nazism), there is the New Left (not really left, just repackaged neoliberalism) and the Old Left (materialism, anti-capitalism and anti-statism)

Fuck you, post-left is just more postmodernist New Left BS

It's different from how Marxist sects all hate each other. Insurrectionary anarchists can easily become anarcho-syndicalists which can easily become platformists, or vice versa, etc. It's all a question of the specifics of praxis, really. There are no fundamental theoretical differences like there are between, say, Leninism and Luxemburgism or Maoism and Trotskyism.

just die already

Why did syndicalism fail to seize the MoP???
How do you live with the fact that syndicates nowadays are mafias that dont do anything for the working class???
Do you enjoy worshipping failed movements out of pure moralism???

How did the yellow in your flag turn silver?

This is why you dont drink fluorided water kids

Sorry this is Holla Forums, you're looking for /postleftypol/

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Planning to claim the water supply as your property bow tie wearing, South Park watching ancap?

Yes, you are my property too, my property

We don't need more parties we need entries to get all the tiny parties into a united front

isnt america trying to centralize government anyway? give it 10~ years, after drumpf is out. Then they'll probably nationalize all bussinesses and do to communist thing. Democrats are commies anyway

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obama is black panther?

I don't care if he is the second coming of stalin, all his policies are full-on neoliberal

tbh I don't think it would be difficult to revive the SLP and strengthen it to a prime contender for strongest socialist party in America, just because the strategy of most socialist parties is so retarded.

Another option would be the PSL as >>1505788 mentioned. Although I find it far less agreeable than the SLP, and not as open to left unity.

Generally socialist parties in America need more bottom up. Too often they just run a presidential candidate or governor as a sort of political stunt without running for any office they can actually win like city council members or state legislator seats to build support.

A significant problem is designing a platform that can be applied at a local level while not being revisionist. Things like establishing mutual banks, giving schools equal funding per student, housing cooperatives, supporting unions, and tax cuts for cooperatives or unionized workplaces might be a good start (so they can be competitive). This shouldn't be done as a means of revisionism but rather as a weak form of dual power, and to gain the support of the working class (propaganda). My question is how do you insure that the party doesn’t become revisionist while still being practical about what you can do at a local level. This is just what came to mind I’m sure a much better political platform could be made if somebody actually sits down and works on it.

This really is the red flag. It's the same thing with the Green Party. Why don't they show up for local elections? That's how you help build a parliamentary base.

The greens actually do have a reasonable amount of local politicians elected. Something like 150 members in local offices currently, I think most of them are in California though, and they don't seem to take advantage of these opportunities enough. The green party should be encouraging party members in areas where they have a number of elected officials to run for higher positions in local government so they can establish effective control of towns and cities.

Chan-Communism

Nice meme. Leftcoms advocate forming parties. Maybe pick up a book sometime.

And then never actually do so except for 1 or 2 super obscure parties with almost no members.

Are you 10 years old?

just join the DSA

Of course.

ALTLEFTGANG

is a satirical political movement, like NAZBOL GANG but more normie-friendly and less Nazism.

Alright then, since you're the only user that has written anything substantive and avoided whining like a little bitch, let's go with your plan.

I like the way is thinking, too. How about we all sign up to the SLP and use it to snowball all the other little grouplets into one united (but still tiny) Holla Forums front?

I like the talk about more bottom-up, too. Having your only activity being a presidential run every 4 years is a recipe for a passive and useless membership. I think your questions about the limits of a locally-based attempt at dual power are probably best sorted out once we've started organising offline.

How about it? slp.org/ , don't worry too much if you don't like the politics as stated, if enough of us get in there we can shift the politics to our preference.

The DSA recently said we should "Abandon all this means of production crap" on twitter

But half of the satire behind Nazbol Gang is that they're Russian Not Socialists.

Sounds like they need some honest-to-god Old Left style reds to come along and put their organisation back on the right track then.

What we need, is an anti idpol new left

You mean… a new Old Left?

Yes.

you could call it the 'united labor' or something like that

Couldn't agree more, and this is just the thread for it. I've always hated phrases like 'we need x' in political discourse though, that's a recipe for inaction.

How about 'we're going to start an anti-idpol new left'. Then you can follow it up with 'and we're going to do that by joining parties close to our politics already and moving them further in our preferred direction', as (You) suggested in regarding the SLP.

If you're out of their reach, how about we start posting our general locations to figure out if we can get together irl to start fucking shit up? I'll start, I'm in regional Australia.

There's about 200 leftypol users, it's not terribly inclusive (so much for the tolerant left!) and is generally all about being as sectarian and elitist as possible.
I really don't think it will take off.

And half of leftypol isnt even american.

But Ameriburgers already have loads of parties

American Party of Labor
All-African People's Revolutionary Party
Communist Party USA
Communist Party USA (Provisional)
Communist Voice Organization
Freedom Road Socialist Organization
Freedom Socialist Party
League of Revolutionaries for a New America
New Afrikan Black Panther Party
Party for Socialism and Liberation
Progressive Labor Party
Revolutionary Communist Party, USA
Revolutionary Organization of Labor
Socialist Action
Socialist Alternative
Socialist Equality Party
Socialist Workers Party
U.S. Marxist–Leninist Organization
Workers Party, USA
Workers World Party

IMO the best one is Party for Socialism and Liberation, if you're into M-L.

I do have to wonder how a person ends up considering themselves an elitist leftist. It's the stupidest oxymoron I can think of. Didn't stop the likes of Lasalle though, I guess.

Also, is there anywhere else on the internet where more lefties post? Sometimes it feels like I'm in some post-apocalyptic bunker looking around at you mutants and asking "Is this all of us?"

revleft?

Frankly, what we need is to end parties. Merge as many as possible.

Multiply the numbers by 1000 and you have the history of the left.

Well the point is to mock the "alt-left" concept entirely

interesting

The Neopublicrats has a ring to it.

Pretty sure that the name "Socialist Party of America" is free these days. Taking the name of the party of Debs and an association with strong labour might be a good way to go to entice Burgers; even if Holla Forums ends up joining & subverting SLP it might be good to "re-brand". Plus it's a nice, straightforward, non-sectarian, fairly neutral name.

I know they're probably torches in your image, but they look like ice cream cones, which totally fits in with the very Holla Forums demand of FALC

>>>Holla Forums

>>>Holla Forums

I know him and he's actually 15.

This isn't progressive enough for you?
justicedemocrats.com/

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They need to have a common list.

Waste of effort. Actually read bordiga.