Why are we hated so much by everybody...

you ain't been doing nothing if you ain't been called a red

youtube.com/watch?v=CkiKW3lQ9RM

A nationalist police state with rampant corruption where the MoP are in the hands of bureaucrats and science and progress stiffed if it came in conflict with what the bureaucrats wanted is nowhere near what I think socialism is about. The west sharing most of those issues and eastern European shitholes being worse off after the fall of the soviets doesn't excuse that.

Because of ideology. Capitalism is perceived and propagated as the status quo without alternative and all the terror that occurs under capitalist regimes does get attributed to outside factors. When millions of people starve to death under capitalism, it is because of local corruption, warlords, natural disasters, but when it happens under communism it is because of communist ideology.

When war gets waged it is because of dangerous authoritarians that stand against liberty, such as religious extremists, communists or fascists, conveniently ignoring that it takes two to play the game and always presenting yourself as the ethical defender of freedom.

It's the trashcan of ideology we are eating from, nothing more, nothing less. Be careful though not to fall into revisionism, rather we should examine all misery with the same kind of scrutiny and awareness as we do with for example the Holodomor.

Read Gramsci and Althusser.

Still better than MoP being in the hands of individuals unaccountable to noone with private islands, armies and bunkers.

take that flag off, tankie

prodi wasn't even socdem, honestly the fact that people from the center or center right can pass as leftists is telling of how serious the political consciousness problem is.

socdem was built on the backs of the third world and the ruling immediatly began to dismatle it when the soviet union fell.

4/10 i replied

No, I'm still a leftcom. I don't know how to get out of the green square.

Jews/Communism won the war/Cultural war after ww2 you dumb fuck.
The West is pure cancer now because of all your tennents being indoctrinated into every mind in the West.
I know, that you as someone who actually believes that commnism is good, really does believe there is this massive agenda against you. And that you guys are the wittle underdog "fighting the man" but objectively speaking, as an outsider I can promise you; youre not.

The propaganda that is anti communism is like a fucking meme. And im talking on the normie tier level. That whole "red scare" shit was like 10 years long at most. It came and went. Its coming back now, becuase people understand that Jews, using Cultural Marxist ideals won ww2 and have been fucking us for 100 years at least.

My fucking sides. Youre literarily so fucking desperate to justify communism, youre dabbling in Alex Jones tier shit bro.. Jesus fucking chirst Holla Forums is a fucking joke.

imagine being this retarded

Like I said, they weren't paradise, or even a great implementation of Marxist ideals. But they were still the best place to live after the Western imperialist nations, and superior to the current iteration of the states they ran. I mean, you can like it or not, but the term socialism will forever be connected to the USSR & Co. Maybe you're of a tendency that brings you to dismiss them as Yet Another Capitalist State or whatever, but no normie on Earth is going to accept that, at least not when the subject is first brought up. As such, actively participating in repeating the capitalist propaganda that these were dystopian hellholes which worked evil on the same level as Nazi Germany will harm the cause of the Left as a whole even if you're the most lefty of leftcoms, as you will associate yourself with a term you've just actively participated in reducing to the effective moral equivalent of Nazism. I'm not saying you should turn full Stalin apologist, I'm just saying that blindly repeating Reagan is shooting yourself in the foot.

No need to imagine at all.

You are the same faggot that says that the USSR wasn't true socialism on the one hand and takes credit for muh space shit and muh world war 2 bash the fash on the other.

I know. Homosexuality is illegal, antisemitism is accepted, large traditional families are favored, banks have been nationalized.

Oh wait.

Learn your fucking history burger.

Western communists who say the USSR and other third world shitholes were bad examples of communism are implying that communism can only succeed in implicitly white societies

Talk about a meme

mautist/liberal (same thing?) detected

try to explain to me how violence is not the answer to this. How would you ever attempt to reason with this individual when he so obviously is in a state of delusion? Even if there was a massive shift in societal organization and material conditions, would this individual be able to be saved? Or is it eternally counter-revolutionary?

...

You have no idea where you are. Name one "tenent" of ours that's been so generally accepted and is causing the downfall of the West. As far as I can see, there are identitarian morons everywhere (including yourself) and not an ounce of class consciousness.

...

thats a pretty good false flag Holla Forums

Hello, American.

DID YOU JUST ASSUME MY NATIONALITY?

Communism can only succeed or fail when it's actually been attempted and not state capitalism by all those Marxist-Leninist parties.

State capitalism -> state socialism -> communism

Why is this so difficult?

You should ask the Leninists that, since they never seem to progress past the "oppressive state capitalism" phase.

Can't really get to "production for use" with all those capitalist imperialists standing outside.

is Bernie Nazbol?

Or one could simply expand democratic functions and let the workers manage the firms themselves.

The cycle of capital must be broken.

You can't criticize me for a proposal that you think is capitalist (I disagree), when you support as a first step the most exploitative form of capitalism possible (the state as the monopoly).

lets play trot or leftcom

Wait, how is state capitalism more exploitative than corporate capitalism?

LOW ENERGY

get out liberal

I didn't say that. Corporate capitalism and state capitalism are virtually the same, since corporations heavily rely on the state.
What I proposed was, as a preliminary step, a market socialist plan where economic democracy is implemented by converting all firms into worker-owned and run enterprises.

Im leaning towards leftcom, not sperging about bureaucracy

The red scare went on from the 30s till the 80s, had a little break in the 90s and 00s and is back.
BTW you're wrong on everything else.

A corporation going democratic would be a disaster without heavy moderation (most likely by the state) as office politics spills over and workers, who prior did not have meaningful relationships with each other, have to create them.

forget it user, its Holla Forums

sage goes in the email field, newfriend

Whatever criticisms you can level against it, the idea is infinitely more emancipatory to the worker than state capitalism.

...

Because nobody can read a fucking book.

people are trying to flee capitalism all the fucking time and there are plenty of people desperate to leave the us if they only had the means

there is literally nothing wrong with nazbols, Assad, Putin, North korea, Duterte or Novorossiya. kys liberal

How is "coops with markets" too capitalist for you, but:
is just fine, according to Leninists?

...

Anti-identity politics background of Holla Forums (well justified after that shitstorm)
The prevailing theories about of how social institutions (like schools and academia), media is infiltrated by left leaning idpol (actually more of useful idiots and neoliberals)
You can`t really into economics, economists like Hayek, Friedman etc are too "neoliberal" for you, which makes no fucking sense, their ideas may be flawed and those flaws were exploited by many…
Keynesianism has failed hard, lefts all new solutions seem to boil down to ancient debunked and broken models of it
Soviet Union in reality entirely rejected Marx in economics, after getting rid of Bolsheviks, they went full Market Socialist, after that "conservative", finally breaking apart after adopting FAILED SocDem ideas
Failing states like Venezuela and North Korea aren`t helping

I'm not a Leninist my dude. Both situations are shit in their own ways.

OP's pic should have given it away

That's the reason I became far-left eventually. They treated me always as a commie and at some time ago, I just stopped caring what they think of me and radicalized because I never really thought that socdem and market socialist politics can bring a better future. It was just a compromise with society.
t. the one living in a post-soviet country

When I read this I feel like I'm having a stroke. I know that it is human language and I reconize individual words but as a whole it makes absolutly no sense.

The thing is, at least we entertain other points of view. On Holla Forums you'd just get banned for posting something that goes against the groupthink.

What parts of it don`t you understand?
Do i need to write a book about each paragraph for you?

Then how do you move to production for use then?

I thought the pictures were used as an example of how everybody hates us.

The Dunning Krueger Effect: The Post

Bookchin is the fucking solution ok

With all firms worker-controlled, over time planning will move to larger scales. Decentralized planning will evolve out of cooperation between firms and municipalities. Central planning will then evolve out of these structures where it is needed.
This reliance on emergent behavior is better than a top-down approach.

divide & conquer. the people who want real meaningful change must be ridiculed & discredited constantly. people can be tricked into giving up their own healthcare because it's "gommunism" and dat's "evil".

says the austrian shitter

You seriously need to read a book, nigger.
Your "cultural war" it's merely a distraction made so stupid simpletons like you would get distracted and don't fight against the ones that hold real power.

So the state will enforce cooperation?

No. Cooperation will come naturally when two or more worker-controlled firms decide they can reduce their individual burdens by working together. It will also come when the voters, which includes the workers, vote for planning measures that increase efficiency and reduce cost (such as healthcare, mass transit, municipal Internet).

Would infrastructure also be owned by workers?

I was only 19 years old I loved Mao so much, I had all the quotations and little red books

I pray to Mao every night before bed thanking him for the wondrous socialist life I've been given.

Mao is love, I say, Mao is life

My reactionary landlord overhears me and calls me a commie traitor

I knew he was just jealous of my devotion for Mao

I called him a bourgeois oppressive capitalist roader

He slaps me and sends me to go to harvest grain for rent

Im crying now, and my face hurts

I lay in bed and its really cold

A warmth is moving towards me.

I feel something touch me

Its the glorious heat of our Sun in the Sky Chairman Mao

I am so happy

He whispers into ear "this is our New China”

He grabs me with his powerful Hunanese hands and puts me on my hands and knees

I'm ready

I engage in Mass Line for Mao

He penetrates my frontlines with guerrilla forces

It hurts so much but I do it for Mao

I can feel my reactionary tendencies tearing as my eyes start to water

I push against his force

I want to please Mao

He roars a mighty roar as he fills my soul with his knowledge of People’s War

My landlord walks in

Mao looks him straight in the eye and says "Three Years Reconstruction, Ten Years Planned Economic Construction".

Mao leaves by taking a Great Leap Forward out of my window

Mao is love, Mao is life.

It's actually related to the undeniable fact that Leftists behave like r-selected prey animals who do nothing but spray their seed on triple-digits worth of used-up whores, and then band up together because they are weak and pathetic fucks alone, largely due to drug abuse and overeating due to their lack of self control.

Rightists however, are respectable, since they mate for life and raise their young properly. When they fight, they fight on their own or in a small squad of well-trained and hardened individuals who can lay waste to dozens, since they have become the masters of their own desires in order to become stronger.

im not sure if this is copypasta but it is now

10/10 hilarious

My wife is a TRAP - in other words NOT GAY!!!! 😡😠😡😠 Besides, it's impossible for a true Not Socialist political soldier like myself to be homosex. We transcend your degenerate bourgeois sexual decadence with our political and ideological purity.

The firms that build the infrastructure will be worker-managed. The infrastructure itself is public property, and owned by all. Several boards of government may exist to manage things, but their members would all be elected and the public could override their decisions with referenda.

Kek

youtube.com/watch?v=2pzfy2izu44

Read the comments

social democrat with barrel of gun detected

It's true that those regimes were better off economically because of effects of collapse but that still doesn't make them socialist. The "communism killed 1 billion" meme is very similar to the tactics of the fascists.

Intellectual property fulfils this role in capitalism all the time.

Pharmaceutical companies and fossil fuel companies all the time buy innovations made by other organisations and individuals to sit on patents out of fear certain breakthroughs will undermine their profits.

And another example of anti-science behaviour borne out of capitalism, is the way that fossil fuel companies lobby government and spread climate change denial propaganda.

Wew lad the managers and the top state got more money than the lower class. The industries were all mandated from the up. With your logic, I can claim that a coroporation is a public property. The soviet elections became obsolete when the free elections and autonomy of soviets dissappeared.

You have half the exact mentality as the people you are talking about. Take the tankie pill OP.

I just stopped caring tbh. Someone calls me commie I don't embrace but I also don't deny it. It's like, why fight it. They are trying to corner you.

It's the same with "brocialism" and plebbit. I just confirm that yes, I'm a socialist, and the 'brocialist' insult is just a stupid name to make themselves feel superior.

Yeah saying USSR wasn't real workers revolution is an insult tbh

I dunno man. A subtle form of gulagging with honest attempts at re-education to insist we didn't mean harm to him and his family and that "muh anuddah shoah" is not real and show proof that we're not doing it.

If not then, well, yeah, maybe they're a lost cause.

People may be starving, but those countries' governments are very much in control.

read a book about USSR
ia601204.us.archive.org/16/items/CitiesWithoutCrisis/Cities Without Crisis.pdf

Christianity killed way more during the witch hunts and by selling of indulgences.

Also most of them don't mind living in a Republic, that stemmed from a movement, that killed even more people during la Grande Terreur, but they don't mind of course.

Prepare to be called a whataboutist when you point this out though.

those normie-tier memes gave me cancer

Why don't you call yourself a communist? Anybody can call themselves a socialist, it's cheap and misleading.

why do you have this flag on?

There are defectors from the DPRK that moved and attempt so go back, realizing that the south sucks ass.

Masses of people who "fled" their homes and had to seek refuge on the street.
Masses of refugees from imperialist war crimes.
People in capitalist countries move from one to another - if they can afford it, but aren't registered. The rest simply cannot move and there is not much of opportunities to go to nowadays.
And yes, there were people leaving western germany to move into the GDR. Unlike the bourgeoise cockroaches trying to fetch some crumbs on the floor, they came out of committment.

...

Not only that, capitalists can very effectively subvert and commodify "resistance to corporate america" as we've seen in the organic foods industry and anti-GMO movement.

capitalist detected

stop the opportunism please

easy bait

probs just thinks it looks cool

is this a rare 3rd worldist/leftcom hybrid?

no user, people with down syndrome aren't as rare as you might think

Socdem is the only thing that matters at this point

Because for a lot of people in the west, capitalism "just werks". When you propose that they get up and do something, something that may make their life slightly harder or decrease their luxuries, they get angry. Also because of how the boomers were born in a time of unprecedented economic prosperity but weren't around to witness the great depression, they tie revolution and socialism to being young and idealistic (because Xers and millennials don't have as much and favor socialist policies). They've also been indoctrinated (at least in the US) to accept all forms of captalist genocide as excusable: vietnam? we were saving them from communism! japan? they attacked pearl harbor! afghanistan? they did 9/11, oh wait they didnt, okay well we're introducing democracy to them!, etc.

...

...

double wammy of people thinking you're the face of IDpol (you are by the way fuck you) and people believing that the goals outlined by your political ideology are utopian and unrealistic (references: pol pot, stalin and this list continues forever)

Incorrect

autism
right wing capitalist ideology is as utopian and unrealistic as it gets, i.e. austrian bullshit that's literally not concerned with real world problems

Am I not allowed to be pragmatic?

What am i supposed to be then?

...