Should more games take the glass cannon approach with their gameplay? When you...

Julian Taylor
Julian Taylor

Should more games take the glass cannon approach with their gameplay? When you get down to it, this is what gave older games their difficulty. No massive health pools for your character and while you can kill enemies easily they can also hurt you badly and you have to be mindful of them at all times…pay attention to where they are relative to how they attack and strategize the best way to defeat them

Performance budgets these days are geared around having a few pretty characters on screen rather than allowing for more enemies that allows this kind of gameplay.

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Julian Green
Julian Green

depents on the game

Jose Gonzalez
Jose Gonzalez

If you take it to the most extreme, the glass cannon gameplay can be emulated by giving every enemy, including bosses only 1HP, giving the player 1HP too and letting everything you or the enemies do deal 9001 damage (because armour might fuck things up).

Problem: if you're good enough to avoid everything, you one shot every enemy and end the game in a couple hours. Publishers deemed this "not profitable".

Modern apprach: everything has a bajjillion HP (including you) and you can upgrade your 7 damage weapon with half a dozen +1% bonuses.
Games last a lot longer but are tedious.

Non-memeing aside, glass-cannon gameplay doesn't work because you feel vulnerable or the enemy lacks massive healthpools.
It's because there's more to the gameplay than left clicking something till it's dead.

Consider Destiny 2. The game's so easy, ducking undercover is not required, it only slows you down. You can just auto-aim your shit at everything that comes near and keep marching to the end of the level non-stop. That's all you do: left-stick forward, spam trigger button.

Now compare to something like… I dunno, Bloodborne? Any game deemed reasonably dificult.
You gotta attack and move forward, yes. But you also gotta keep in mind the fight around you. Is there an opening? Should you be more defensive and hang back? Can you heal or should you wait?
You end u playing with the dodging, quickstepping, healing, hunter tools, and other "peripheral crap" instead of simply mashing the attack button.

If Destiny was a good game, you'd play around with cover, vertical movement, grenades, enemy positionement and your powers.

tl,dr: What this guy said.

Isaac Long
Isaac Long

Over the years I grew to dislike the concept.
Dodging and blocking and parrying usually means doing legwork and not doing actual damage.
It prolongs most fights and takes more effort than just tanking through damage and keep pounding shit.

That being said I absolutely hate being slow, so in games like Dark Souls and Nioh I tend to spend most points into stat allowing me to wear medium armor but still be fast as if it was light armor.

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Ryder Sullivan
Ryder Sullivan

this applies to fps games as well, such as half-life killing you if you're not constantly moving away from houndeyes/vortigaunt lightning/soldier grenades/soldier ambushes/zombies/headcrabs/grunt bees

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Brayden Powell
Brayden Powell

How do you apply the glass cannon build to a game based around melee combat like Nioh?

Jayden Wilson
Jayden Wilson

Basically glass canon in nioh is having light armor and spending points on primary damage stat. So you are very agile, can move and attack a lot, parry shit and not run out of stamina, but you can't take a lot of damage or block a lot of damage, since armor in nioh doubles for shield role.

Jonathan Mitchell
Jonathan Mitchell

Also, certain weapons, armor, and spirits have attributes that boost abilities when in a critical state. The qt Moth spirit has some close combat bonuses. I'm playing through the game with the moth spirit right now actually

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Zachary Perry
Zachary Perry

I have never played any remotely realistic shooter.
It always amuses me when someone painfully ignorant tries to write an essay.

Henry Turner
Henry Turner

Should more games take the glass cannon approach with their gameplay?
Two shots from full auto guns to kill. Is it glass enough for you? That is right you know that legendary release of call of duty was best PvP FPS ever designed. Glass canon rulez, baby!

No massive health pools for your character and while you can kill enemies easily they can also hurt you badly and you have to be mindful of them at all times…pay attention to where they are relative to how they attack and strategize the best way to defeat them

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Easton Baker
Easton Baker

14484501
Are you okay?

Mason Garcia
Mason Garcia

See this post:

Josiah Bell
Josiah Bell

That post has no substance.

Parker Rodriguez
Parker Rodriguez

Glass cannons are okay, but they should be an option, not modus operandi.
Also
what gave older games their difficulty
Older games had literal artificial inflation and padding of gameplay with said "difficulty" where you oft had to spend a disgusting amount of time actually damaging things(3-5 hits usually without being able to move while doing so or even more) compared to being a "glass cannon" where one shot is usually one kill. Otherwise they'd end in less than an hour.

Lincoln Roberts
Lincoln Roberts

Back atcha

Dominic Cox
Dominic Cox

Give players 13 iframes.
The kids think they're hardcore.
Go play Ninja Gaiden soulsfaggots.

Brayden Allen
Brayden Allen

Release it on relevant platform first.

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Hudson Howard
Hudson Howard

Ninja Gaiden is a good example of how to implement OP's question correctly in a game.

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Oliver Perez
Oliver Perez

NINJA CHINGCHONG GAIDEN
Naming of japanese video games always amused me.

Brandon Collins
Brandon Collins

It always amuses me when someone painfully ignorant dismisses an "essay" with adhominem.

You seemed to have bought into the low-ttk anyway, so I won't even bother arguing with you at all.

Justin Brooks
Justin Brooks

Yeah obviously Red Orchestra, Insurgency, Operation Flashpoint and ArmA are just like Call of Duty. Please suckstart a shotgun.

Samuel Wright
Samuel Wright

All are build around glass canon balance. You point is?

Matthew Ramirez
Matthew Ramirez

Re-fucking-read my initial post.
Did I say anything about any of those games?
N-fucking-O.

Zachary Diaz
Zachary Diaz

t. cuck

John Roberts
John Roberts

Glass cannon approaches naturally lend themselves to good gameplay. That's not to say that a glass cannon approach necessarily makes for good gameplay, but rather that good gameplay facilitates the glass cannon approach.

Building your game around low health and high damage implies one thing: Damage can be avoided. It's alright if you die in one or two hits, because you should be able to avoid getting hit. In action games, this means weaving in and out of combat, blocking and dodging and learning the tells of enemies and how to play around attacks while getting attacks of your own in. In games such as shooters, this means finding advantageous positions, keeping out of sight while keeping aware of your own surroundings. In team based games, this means communication and teamwork.
Games that have high health on players and enemies typically do so because you're expected to take damage. This can be for multiple reasons. If the game is aggression-focused, it might be because the game wants you to constantly be on the offensive without having to worry about taking chip damage. Most of the time, however, it's because the game doesn't give you defensive options. This isn't necessarily the mark of a bad game; Doom is a classic but it is next to impossible to avoid damage in confrontations because enemies have hitscan bullets. In turn based games, dodging is naturally impossible due to enemies being able to attack freely during their turn.

tl;dr Glass cannons and tank 'n spanks both have their place in video games. Neither is necessarily better than the other. Just kidding. High damage, low health gameplay is just intrinsically more fun.

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Blake Gray
Blake Gray

t. Amrigoblin.

Jace Harris
Jace Harris

I know you didn't mention it, which is why I did. Why am I only allowed to mention things you've already mentioned?
My point is that "glass cannon gameplay" shooters exist that are not "low TTK" fuckfests like Call of Duty which is what you seem to think I was referring to.

Gabriel Sanchez
Gabriel Sanchez

"glass cannon gameplay" has nothing to do with gameplay quality?

Lincoln Cook
Lincoln Cook

Glad we're on the same page, but I don't get why the other clown brought up the "low TTK meme."

Cameron Carter
Cameron Carter

unused loading
Pretty sure I saw that in the retail version. Might have been using software render, which explains the resolution.

adhominem
This is always just an excuse for not understanding why you don't know what you're talking about.

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Nathan Evans
Nathan Evans

I really wish more games did something akin to this.

The standard combat for most games, especially RPGs has 2 guys slashing at each other a bajilion times in a war of atrition. Damage is unavoidable but it can be mitigated by armor or passive skills and your health is extended with healing potions, so it boils down to an atrition fight. The dude that lasts longer than the oponent ends up being the winner. This means that even if you are less skilled (this can just mean having less Skills or Atributes than your oponents), you can just make up for it with moar healing potions or using OP weapons and armor.

What should be happening instead is that dudes die from just a few strikes and a guy that can take 5 hits and stay up has inhuman foritude. The game revolves around actually landing said hits by creating openings, positioning and maneuvering. Even using Stamina, where you commit more errors and are slower the more tired you are, so you still get an atriction fight but it's one that is fought by how you spend your energy.

This really makes me think of Gurps vs DnD.

Nolan Bailey
Nolan Bailey

Nah, stack up that hp, and save scum if you are hit once anyway.

Kayden Martin
Kayden Martin

CoD and other multiplayer FPS games do glass cannons completely incorrectly though. Since you can't move quickly enough to dodge bullets (mostly hitscan anyway) combat is reduced to whomever shoots first winning 90% of the time. Combined with poor latency and general netcode fuckery this makes for incredibly unsatisfying gameplay. Now if the players had a faster type of movement or some other skill based way to avoid damage it would be a different matter. Hawken is one of the only modern FPS games that did that well, even heavy mechs died fast if your shots connected, but you could boost, block and evade hits if you were good. Too bad it's now RIP.

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Aiden Allen
Aiden Allen

It's now RIP? I thought it was just about to make it's way into the whole competitive meme-sports scene. and by just I mean 4 or so years ago when I last played it

Ayden Nelson
Ayden Nelson

Glass cannon mechanics are the core of shoot em ups, and those are the fathers and kings of all video games, so yes. The farther you get from this genre, the less video game you get, and what is a video game if it has no video game?

Angel Cooper
Angel Cooper

Firepower is relative. If players move faster guns that counted as high power for slow speed movement don't count as powerfull anymore. This is difference between theoretical and real TTK. To determine type of the game what matters is real TTK. Game where players on average engage in combat for 5 seconds without killing each other is not a glass canon game. This is war of attrition type of game where they aim to deplete resources other than hp first or just plain RNG game where they spam shoots waiting for critical hit.

combat is reduced to whomever shoots first winning 90% of the time.
Too slow to aim faster than opponent? Play turn based games then, grandpa.
inb4 lack of fast aim and reaction speed should be rewarded

Mason Martin
Mason Martin

Since you can't move quickly enough to dodge bullets
You need to take cover and peek around corners retard. Of course not in multiplayer, but I always think that CoD MP is worse than the SP except for the Zombie mode.

Samuel Adams
Samuel Adams

Old games weren't balanced. They first and foremost put lots of fun and interesting mechanics into the game.

Have you ever played the Might and Magic games? A werewolf having the chance to kill any character in one hit isn't balanced. It's extremely overpowered and unfair. But it's interesting and that's why it's there.
Flying and various armageddon spells aren't balanced, but they are fun. That's why they are there.

Old games didn't have this faggy MUH ESPORTS BALANCE mentality to them.

Now that I think of it, I guess you are right, when we only consider FPS? I'd invite you to try other games sometime, user. Anyway Turok 1 and 2 are very interesting in that regard. Even the most basic enemies can chip away a big part of your healthpool in a short time, if they are allowed to attack you for a few seconds.
I think Turok Remastered with fog extended and hardcore difficulty is the most difficult game I have ever played. It's extremely punishing and the enemies are fucking superhuman. I haven't seen a single Youtuber beat the game on these settings. They are all bitches who play with fog + autoaim.

I want my games to be fun and interesting first and foremost. I don't want fucking MMO-tier stats where an intem gives you a 3% critical hit chance to do 120% damage. That is cancer. It even seems to infect singleplayer games and even strategy games like War for the Overworld and is the reason why it failed.

Bentley Powell
Bentley Powell

Too slow to aim faster than opponent?
You missed the point and you don't know what he is talking about.
In those kinds of games, outflanking someone can give you an easy kill, since you'll likely kill him before he has time to react due to low TTK.
It's not simply a matter of "aiming faster", it's more "react faster". You're being shot so now you have to first find out from what direction, turn there, aim down after you recognize your oponent and then shoot. This isn't so much a problem in games that give you ample of time to do so but when you can die in a single second, it likely won't be enough.

The result is that the focus of the game completely changes. It's no longer simply about moving forward and aiming better, it's now mostly about map knowledge and positioning. You're constantly trying to outflank your oponent because of the massive advantage it grants you. Combat ends up feeling very boring since you're either shooting at someone that's not even shooting back or you're being shot before you can even react to it.
It becomes a game about camping or flanking, not about shooting and dodging.

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