Civilization is literally a meme

Civilization is literally a meme.

Anarcho primitivist thread

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Your Ideology is literally impossible
go be an ultra Luddite some where else

it is literally impossible to avoid it once we run out of resources.

Read The Ecology of Freedom faget

I did, wasn't too impressed

so then life ends?
no it doesn't that's not how our planet works. Resources replenish themselves if managed properly

Reminder that anarcho-primitivism is the most reactionary ideology

Do Tell

this literally no merit to it
fucc outta here

bennorton.com/bookchin-on-the-absurdity-of-primitivism/

How do primmies imagine they will organize when people are starving to death around them

fossil fuels and plastics do not

...

the same way we did prior to civilization

so terribly, and with lots of preventable deaths?

the same way we did prior to civilization


like cancer, genocide, disease. oh wait that is all a result of civilization

Derek Jansen's book is interesting "end game". but im sorry there's nothing wrong with civilization.

hierarchy, capitalism, exploitation, the bourgeoisie.
yes there is plenty wrong with civilization

These things existed before civilization.

so just work to move on from capitalism? i really love you anarcho-primitive guys. you're interesting well thought out people. but humans organized into civilization is just natural. plus over population isn't the reason why ecology gets damaged, Jansen even proved that point in his book.A socialist society with green technology can protect the environment better

Famrade pls

Going to jump on the Bookchin circlejerk here. Hierarchy and the domination of human by human, and through that the emergence of the idea of dominating nature, began long before the emergence of civilisation.

i'm not a sectarian i just have ideological differences. the way they think to me is interesting to me *shrug*

Anprims BTFO

but the only way to avoid ecological collapse to get hands off the environment.

"Picture yourself planting radishes and seed potatoes on the fifteenth green of a forgotten golf course. You’ll hunt elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center, and dig clams next to the skeleton of the Space Needle leaning at a forty-five degree angle. We’ll paint the skyscrapers with huge totem faces and goblin tikis, and every evening what’s left of mankind will retreat to empty zoos and lock itself in cages as protection against the bears and big cats and wolves that pace and watch us from outside the cage bars at night"

techno-primitiveness is the superior position to take. get rid of psychotic modes of production, technologies that require constant rare materials and completely restrict the power that engineers, scientists and warriors have regarding their use and access to technology. Just structure your society with minimal environmental impact on your surrounding ecology, use technologies that are easily replacable and low impact (air rifle, well made hand ax, fishing rods) and pass on essential technical-mechanical knowledge to all high intelligence community members. No reason to abandon sanitation, hunting tools or the ability to craft fine pigments, dyes or linens. Its idiotic and anti-human to completely abandon all forms of technology, even computers can be salvaged and used without being enslaved to anything. We must escape the extraction, information serfdom that the Intelligence-Technology-Industrial Complex is forming all around us. That's the most important thing for tech right now, removing the need for harmful extraction industries and the overbearing panopticon/corporate stranglehold of information and software. Beyond that there is nothing stopping us from using information technology without destroying the planet or losing our humanity. A huge part of the problem we are facing with technology comes from its political and economic misuse. People are using tech to lead the masses into deeper bondage. We're uncritically grasping for new machines, devices and processes that could have irreversible consequences for the biosphere and our genetic lineage as a species. That's an issue, people being able to use blenders and air rifles is a non-issue.

What about the flu? Smallpox? Famine?

Why not rid us of those things?

Most primmies I've met have never been seriously hungry, or even without shelter in inclement weather.

But it is literally reactionary. Wanting to return to some kind of earlier, idealised society or system is the very definition of reactionary.

I would say drug addiction, cancer, are worse

Its not though

Are you arguing that AnPrimism does not want to return to the pre-civilisation golden age, or that "reactionary" does not mean the wish to return to an idealised past political system?
If its the former, I'm not interested in arguing about the intricacies of a backwards political ideology. If it is the latter, you are wrong.

But what is civilization tho? Isn't an anarcho primitivist commune a small scale civilization?

is it you Varg?

all these buzzwords

civilization is the domination of cities.

Cities are liberatory structures. They only got ruined by capitalism. Read Bookchin.

Capitalism is a natural product of cities. Read Zerzan

Bookchin epically btfo Zerzan ages ago. Stop reading useless stuff.

Then you're an idiot.

Everything you listed is a result of civilization

Then we find alternative sources of energy.

Forgot to take off my shitposting flag.

It's funny, because I find myself agreeing with anprims on the basic point that humans are not "built" for modern society. We are still genetically the same species as we were 100,000 years ago.

But I don't see why we'd want to go back. The myth of the noble savage has blinded people to the fact that living in a primitive fashion really really sucks. Like, enormously.

In addition, we really can't go back. We've reached a point at which our climate is fucked to at least some degree. We have no choice but to engineer our way out of it or billions will die.

Additionally, I also don't see why anprims don't take the far more obvious route of improving humans to match society. The "natural" human form is not some ideal to strive for. We suffer through enormous pain to give birth and we are still not completely adapted to bipedalism. We are wreaked by genetic disease. All these can be solved if we embrace genetic engineering and cybernetics. Humans can become more than the sum of natural evolution, and it's sad anprims don't see that.

it sucks for weaklings and the feeble of spirit and mind. Its a paradise for the strong and able bodied, those who nature intended to flourish

Bookchin didnt die for this, read him.

"We must cull out the weak, only the strong survive"

oh hello Holla Forums

reminder: nature doesn't intend jackshit. Nature is blind and stupid and creates things that are shit. Like humans.

Nature does not exist

Bookchin is for fags

nope, but then again you can deny anything as long as you're dumb enough

nope it intended for life to exist, that's why every decade we push back the start date of life on earth closer to the date of its geological formation. It also intended for the biosphere to self sustaining that's why syntropy and synergistic ecological systems exist
No she sees everything, knows everything and punishes cancerous weakness immediately with absolute violence
t. anti-human leftist faggot

What are some good Anprim books?

...

You mean people with actualy politics

Holy shit.

"She"

Are you gonna give me some half-baked naturalist theology while you rub your spirit crystals?

The biosphere is not forever self-sustaining. You can fetishize earth all you want but the sun is still going to fry this planet in a few billion years.

We were born on earth. We were never meant to die here.

I will say the unabomber has written some interesting stuff, and there is some knowledge in those greeny anarchist philosopher types, but realistically i m not going to go live in the Forrest you hippie shit

I guess your right, some are dumb enough

Cancer and drug addiction existed before cities and civilization.

Why would an anprim have an Ankh as a symbol?

because they are the final stage of life-stylist cancer

they were never serious health epidemics and the levels of tumors we've found in ancient corpses pales in comparison to modern day epidemics of colon, lung and breast cancer. Stop being a pharmacuck shill faggot, its embarrassing.

No god required, and until one of you has the courage to step up to the plate of strong atheism you can honestly all eat shit

life expectancy was also 20
and you could die from the common cold

"She"
yeah nature is feminine, the Self is masculine. if this is confusing you have autism
No that shit is gay
earth will produce a child of the stars that will spread its seed before she willingly submits to the fires of the sun. You are a shortsighted soulless autist, I have no hope for you
We're not ready to leave yet, we haven't grown our wings. A few more million years is all we need, but we won't make it if we allow the machine god to devour us before we can ascend

pure autism

Maybe because people today live longer? Maybe because people back then would die of literal colds and wolves?

Oh hell, there were epidemics INSIDE the tribes and the ones which they contected.

no it was 50 for anyone that survived their teenage years, the weak died and the strong thrived
no you couldn't, weak dysgenic non-humans could. Full humans don't die from that shit, they die from exposure or the hunt or child birth

Oh, so now the same shit again, "the strong thrived". Why no anarchocapitalism then and the market decides?

oh fuck off back to your cave you whelp. Their is no plan to the universe, nature is chaos, and technology will always progress.

technology progressing is not a given; we could nuke ourselves into oblivion for example

no they're found in 30 year olds, people lived into their 50's once they survived the trials of adolescence you're just lying blatantly
Only the weak died to these things, most strong men died on the hunt from exposure or getting lost or getting injured or warfare. You lived a noble, meaningful life and you knew you were strong because you saw the weak being pruned before your eyes.

Nope there is no pantheism involved, Nature came from somewhere. Its not the original existing thing.
you literally have autism by not being able to deduce these basic truths about reality. you also don't have a soul and will suffer immensely in this life and the next for your evil

the market is an abomination to nature

i'm kek'ing heartily at the idea that I would live in a cave, when clearly we are not experiencing an ice age.
non-statement backed up by nothing, occam's razor leads me to reject this notion by default
nature is change and growth, nothing more
what this progress entails for us, how it will take shape, where it will go and whether its desirable are incredibly open ended questions. This thinking is evil and anti-intellectual. You should be deeply ashamed

I love how they sperg about muh civilization and muh tech on an internet site

BTFO'd faggot

Admit it, you are a closet fascist.

Nice try, but we don't argue for the destruction of the Internet, you do.

As if this is some kind of surprise.

Tech produced by capitalist isn't inherently corrupt, while your notion about tech assumes that.

I just love teasing them

you can be anti-civilization w/o being primmie.

read wolfi fagget

being able to discern good from evil is a basic part of building civilization
no only the Self and Nature can be said to exist and they both are not deities especially in the sense of pantheism or monotheism
aversion to weakness is not a culture of strenght, I don't want homoerotic displays of organized masculinity like fascists do. homoeroticism is psychotic hatred of women brought to theistic levels of madness.
this isn't any of my concern
markets are an abomination, just like prisons and elections and welfare and hook-up culture
I fundamentally hate fascists

Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid.

that's not the point of the counter-argument and I am not opposed to all technology, just the technological-industrial-market-state dynamic that feeds off itself and entombs us in an ocean of wires, EMR waves, data packets, roads and steel/glass towers. That's what I oppose. I have no problem with low impact technology that blends into a natural landscape and does not separate the species from the Earth and the cleansing eugenic processes of nature.

You're not teasing me, i'm learning from you all. I watch for idiot autistic patterns of sperging so I'm immunized against them going forward. Its how I resisted fascism back when stormfags started colonizing the imageboards and reddit. I've decided that since the Left and the Right wage constant psychological warfare, its worth my time to wade into these shitshows and to spar with you idiots. Even if I always win and even if you always reduce back down to the same 3-4 idiot points

u w0t m8

Lurking is better for that in my opinion but I enjoyed anyways

I can almost feel the butthurt.

"cleansing eugenic processes of nature"

Just join the transhumanists already, jesus. Nature takes millenia to make improvements; we'll be able to "perfect" (inashmuch as you can reach a subjective idea of perfection) humanity in a century the rate genetic engineering is going.

i reject the hellscape that the techno-capitalists are creating and the equally awful techno-socialist dystopia you people want to construct. I don't have a problem with art, architecture, science, community or even low impact technology.
Christian and Humanist moralism is not the same as being able to discern good from evil. Christians think evils like meekness are good and Humanists think evils like welfare are good. They're the epitome of evil

I am conversant in the board culture, memes, terminology and systems of etiquette and have posted semi-regularly on this board for about 9 months now.

Keep replying, maybe I'll cry and beg for you to correct my wrongthink

Ironically I want the species to transcend itself, but I want it to do so without using genetic engineering or merging with technology. We must keep technology as a tool, a life support system, to give it life is to disrespect the concept of organic evolution.
It takes eons to be precise.
we'll be able to create Aldous Huxley level inhuman monsters using genetic engineering, noosphere tech and AR/VR along with biotech. But, that's not evolution its the death of the species and the end of organic evolution. The rest of the biodiversity on the planet isn't equipped to pick up the torch of sapience and will wither away and die as we grow further and further away from our dependence on and coevolution with the biosphere.

OOOGA BOOGA BOMBAYA


*TRIBAL DRUMS BEGIN TO PLAY

And know we have technology and medicine to better our lives so we don't have to suffer. I mean, shit, lets just abolish language so we can evolve telepathic powers to communicate am I right!


1. so if they die of these exposures then are the really strong

2.

you really are a dumb motherfucker aren't you?
Every disease is a living thing, therefor when we bested them by evolving superior anti-bodies, they in turn would just evolve to counter them, its that good old natural selection you like so much. This shit continued until we became smart enough as a species to develop things like medicine that could act fast enough to destroy a pathogen before it could adapt (case in point yellow fever)

WITCH DOCTOR OHH HAYIA
*tribal drums continue

>the market is an abomination to nature
then why did it happen, everything that happens in this universe is nature, you cant exist outside of the material realm, therefor literally everything can be defined as nature
oh! but im sorry, that would go against you precious feels


I r8 you for understanding this at least.

so you agree with me?


exactly my point. There is no "natural" and "right" way to exist on this plant, and their is no "balance" to nature. All of our Paleontological history shows that "nature" is characteristic by stages of equilibrium, followed by pure chaos. Such is reality, no direction, no plan, it just happens


I feel as if I have been told to check my muh privileges. I agree that we may wipe ourselves out in nuclear war, but that hasn't happened yet. I'm just looking at the trajectory of man and can see it is pointed to the stars. If you want to go back now then that would be cool for (you), but don't act like speak for all of us or "nature" or something, your debating a 17 year old on an image board made by a cripple, on a board filled with armchair Socialists, just reel it in their Socrates


that's a god damn shame, one thing leads to another.


your adorable


tough shit m8. The moment we get close another extinction event many occure and destroy us. So it is

look above

Most people, including myself, think that technology should work for humans; humans should not work for technology. The bizarre suggestion that we should modify ourselves so that we are more suited to our artificial environment of today is like telling a man repeatedly hitting his head with a hammer to bolt a steel plate to his skull instead of simply not hitting his head with the hammer. That said, I don't see why the anprims think that agriculture needs to be given up. So long as every individual is fully self sufficient, understands how to make all of the tools they use, and is regularly engaged in useful labor, the level of technology needs to be reduced no further.

Its not really about modifying our self to the environment, Its more about solving our natural problems since nature takes so long and is inefficient

For you information, all the stars propagate EMR. Athmosphere filters some of it.

t. meteorology and physics student

Yes, but solving our natural problems though self modification instead of environmental modification.

don't start with him, he probably believes they come from Yahweh's ass crack

ITT: Proof that both anprims and transhumanists are implicit fascists, either returning to an idealized past or creating a master-race.

it is reactionary, and yes things I don't like are reactionary.

It's not a master race if we're all part of it. Transhumanism is inevitable; if we don't do it collectively as a society porky will just turn himself into a master race. Socialism is the only way this doesn't end poorly.

Why not both? There's no reason we shouldn't establish control over both ourselves and the our surroundings.

Why is it in my interest to give rise to a new species somewhat but increasingly less related to humans? Any genetic contribution I might make to it will be gradually filtered out to nothing once you start tampering with the genome.

As I said before

sage and move on

Because we've discovered that it's not only possible but quite easy to genetically modify living organisms so you'd directly benefit from the eradication of, for example, genetic diseases and certain markers for aging.

Also, your genetic contribution already gets watered down to nearly nothing over long periods of time so iunno why you care so much.

autism begins to rumble
autism erupts
most people whose lives are extended are in constant states of suffering and struggle against their prolonged deaths. they would be helped by being allowed to die. its despicable that we extend their lives needlessly.
This is shit tier counter-argument, but there are serious schools of thought that advocate returning to more symbolic systems of communication and moving away from written language. I am one of those advocates, the English language is vile and debased
2.
You need to focus better user, your ADHD autism is showing
If this were the case then every archaic species of bacteria and every strain of every virus would still exist. But we know that many viruses and bacterial species go extinct or burn themselves out and then go extinct. This isn't a strong argument against the notion that weaklings die to minor illness.
And we've allowed hordes of subhumans and their filthy genetic groups to infect virile human gene pools and we will suffer immensely for doing so in the coming years, either by taking drastic corrective measures to protect against genetic degeneration or by massive epidemics of deformity and congenital diseases. I do not view saving poor children from polio as a virtue. They are not cattle to be innoculated for our benefits, mental or economic. If someone succumbs to illness they should be allowed space to fight it off, sanitation, nursing and quarantine. But if they die, that's their battle that they lost. We best let them lie. Its harsh, but it is for the greater good of the whole biosphere and will allow fertile ground for the growth of a new form of life that transcends the current homo sapiens iteration we have right now.
*tribal drums continue
more bullshit autism, and whatever lunatic philosophical presupposition it is that I'm stepping on. Which I can tell is irritating you, i'd imagine its deducing metaphysical principles without being instructed to do so by a priestarchy
I think its humorous that you think I care what you think
No that's not your point, your point is that the right way is the techno-socialist genetic engineering dystopian route. Anything that deviates from that is viewed as heretical. You're again blatantly lying and switching around your arguments, points, lines of logic and intentions. Which is necessary because all you can do is levy ad hominems and try to deconstruct, you have nothing to offer in the way of alternatives.
this is blatantly false, the study of ecology and keystone species disproves this as does epigenetics and homeostasis, along with the necessity of organic life that the conditions on Earth compelled. You are lying again
(cont)

(cont.)
Evolution, transcending old forms and reorganizing are not pure chaos. only a schizophrenic materialist sees the extinciton events as chaos. new life emerged, better life, we are that.
No this is your spirit and soul, directionless, no plan, chaotic, debased. you are projecting your ugliness onto the world like all materialists do
If you're so autistic that two separate instances of shame are always associated with each other as the same type of shame, that's on you. I don't associate guilt from being cruel to a loved one with guilt for original sin against the Christian god. But then again I'm not autistic or a materialist.
That's not what will be the end of us. Transhumanism, Strong AI and genetic engineering of new species within the species will be the end of us.
I agree but my reasons are entirely different and I don't approve of using extraction based, explosion based, consumptive, materialist designed technologies to get there. We will be plague on the universe and worthy of extermination
Yes you sound like someone who has autism and whose neocortex is stunted, I'm aware of this. I don't care what any of you want, I have no intentions of conquering the planet or forcing anything upon anyone. If you want to create hell, be my guest. I will sit and watch you suffer with my lips shut tightly. I also don't want to go back, but I've said that not once but twice now.
no determinism is foolish, there are an infinite number of paths that technology can go down. We could create the most beautiful mind in the history of existence, our child, a gift to the universe from an enlightened species. Or we could unleash an Artificial Anti-Christ which is what we are headed towards. These things are not certain. Nothing is certain, it merely has some form of inertia that we know is carrying us forward, but which direction that is, we can't know yet.
I have never been described as adorable; thoughtful, prone to mysticism, sensitive, introverted, harsh, these are all things that others have described me as. Adorable, I don't think I could be if I wanted to be.
Yes life is risk, removing risk is anti-life. It comes full circle, your deranged logic and my observations about innate truths
yes all good things take time, friend

Not humans.
Fine, only circulating cell populations in living humans. Still can't do much.

yes thank you Bill Nye, why don't you go back to teaching people about how safe chemical waste is in the watter supply and how animal husbandry is the same as gene splicing. I hear there are some normies who need excuses to buy the latest EMR laden, surveillance filled, dehumanizing techno-panacea.

...

Your computer produces plenty of electromagnetic radiation. For the sake of your own well-being, I must insist that you step away from it.

...

ITT: people who need to read Bookchin

not enough to be of serious concern, wifi is much more important to be scaled down or protected against

Jesus fucking christ you fucking faggot

sweet mother of extrapolation. kys cunt

What is the threshold for concern, then?

...

mind altering or genetic mutating levels of radiation. I don't trust deep state funded science to protect goyim chattel from mind altering effects of EMR. I use it, but am actively suspicious of it. As we all should be of all technology, including our cars and road systems, especially the road systems (which literally manufacture ecocide and mass preventable deaths)

keep it up fam. Needed a giggle today.
For the record, I refuse to debate seriously with unironic anprims.
So yea, keep it up.

Can't do much yet. We've only barely begun. CRISPR is to genetic engineering what the first silicon wafer was to computing


Real spooky shit right here, how about you go commune with gaia or some shit for a while then come back when you feel better


I'm sorry Holla Forums but you have to go back

As I said before, crypto-fascists.
You have a good point about cars, though. I don't think that their invention did much to improve human well being overall, even aside form the environmental consequences and the fatalities.

The current dominance of cars, especially in America, is partially the result of concerted efforts by car companies to destroy existing tramway, bus and railroad infrastructure.

this is a position of utter weakness and inferiority

I don't believe in any of that stuff. I just recognize the existence of a Self and Nature. Which are self evident deductions from being non-autistic and having a soul. I don't feel the need to revere or worship anything. Nature will remove the tumors of extraction industries either by using another form of life that will weed us out (maybe an alien race, maybe a virus, maybe a benevolent sapient ai) or we will correct our course and move with the consent of nature. I don't need to petition her for help.
I'm not allowed on pol, i trigger them ten times harder than you guys. I'm only here because everywhere else is colonized by fascists and liberals. I can't stand them more than I can't stand all of you. They really wear on my nerves, I think its the fact that they're all so ugly and weak willed

whatever you say m8

I am fully aware. But public transit isn't exactly the nicest thing to ride around either.

What the hell? Why would any of that happen as a result of nature? Nature is not fucking magic, it can't just make things happen. It's a passive system that isn't going to "fight back" or "fix" anything. To say otherwise is dipping into mysticism for which there is no justification and no evidence.

Fundamentally, there's nothing special about earth. Earth is one of billions of planets and will one day be consumed along with the rest of the inner solar system by the sun. Any blathering about the earth somehow producing a "child of the stars" is bullshit hippie mysticism the same as healing crystals and gaia. Unless you can produce some form of evidence of "Nature" existing as anything but a term for the biosphere, there's really nothing to talk about since you're not even accepting facts.

Fuck off luddite reactionary scum, give me my cyborg body, virtual reality, and terraformed planets.

le BTFUGOEDDDD


Poor argument m8. What if I want to live to 100


Because Hieroglyphics where just so useful, its not like some superior way of communicating came along and utterly BTFOed them

Two different things m80, also Im fucking tired

Now this is just PATHETIC. Of-cores pathogens go extinct, natural selection remember! But the ones that exist today are simply their hyper evolved great grand children. It wasn't until we invented medicines that we could counter them in time before they acted.


you mean like yourself. It's been centuries since we started using medicines, that means your in with the mix too m8.

TRANSHUMANISM
get gud

your just a peach arent you


;^(


Never said it was right
remember there is no right

also


I giggled


no, It's just lame


so far all I've seen you do is prove you inadequacy in understanding basic evolution in your bacteria tyrade. If I'm worst than that I must be realy shit!


TRANSHUMANISM
gg get gud once again

do you know what that means. Just curious


(cont)

Why do you desire a cyborg body and virtual reality? Terraformed planets I don't see a problem with (although they are the hardest of the three things to produce). Will a saccharine sweet VR really be so much more conducive to human flourishing than real life, with its ups and downs? What would a cyborg body allow you to do that will bring you such delight?

Please, user, lay off the enter key a little.

The primmie does have a point about disease. The childhood diseases responsible for so much of infant mortality, like smallpox, measles, etc. require large concentrations of population in order to continue themselves. Before civilization, most diseases that affected humans could either also infect a few other species as well, or could somehow remain dormant (like fungal spores, for instance). However, childhood mortality overall wasn't much lower than in pre-industrial civilization.

your right nature is a pure balance! That's why we still have the dinosaurs

it sure did wipe out species far greater than us. But hey, natures plan am i right

Your salty bullshit spray feeds me

I thought only a "schizophrenic materialist" say an extinction event as chaos?

I thought I was 17, leave the boyish insults to me

SPOOPY

Holy shit, you must be a real ladies man


there you go again with more "Its right because i say so" shit

Brownies sure
But everything else
seems like a wast of time

Any-who Im done here
feel free to "LOL BTFEGO"
my arguments, I need sleep

Forgot shit post flag

...

it's the opposite. Industry and capitalism fomented cities

They self-reinforced. But that doesn't mean cities are bad; they're where communalist sentiments run highest these days

Okay but can we remember there's a distinction between anprims and green anarchy

I think it's important to separate social ecology/inclusive democracy from anarchism tbh.

Because human bodies are shit, that's why, and most other people equally so.

literally the most useless of fucks

Every star in this universe is going to go dark at some point, so why not just kill yourself now before lifeblood of this universe dies out?

That second pic is as bad as any contemporary liberal trying to explain why communism looks good on paper but doesn't work because of human nature.

What is non-anarchist primitivism like?

primitive feudalism

...

"reactionary" is a word with an actual definition, anprimism fits within this definition

also people ITT trying to debate a person who makes arguments from magic

No, you mean, smash up the clock

anprims are the only anarkiddies i respect tbh

what a shock

...

Why can't we just divide technology into the healthy and destructive, and then forcibly remove the destructive while still reaping the benefits of the good? I would love to live in a happy forest tribe with no cars, but with modern medicine and heating in the winter.

Other user here. Nope that will not happen see Taleb's antifragile

Note am another user.
It is more complicated. Systems shift. Balance of nature is incorrect. There's a term that I forgot but it matters. See also stuff like ecological fitting and island theory.

Keystone species matter because of network theory. You could have said co-evolution to bolster your claim. I am not sure what you mean with epigenetics.

Damn annoying how I can't put the words of what I've studied. I am a student of ecology.

but not arguments from spooked faggotry like class and collective amirite user? lol at thinking that metaphysics is magic and that nature having a telos is magical. You're projecting. Enjoy being blind and suckling from the teat of the State. You are doomed to suffer countless more incarnations of pain

See this book as one example. But like said it is complicated.

Not an advocate of anti-civ by the way, let me say that.

epigenetics is a method for weaklings to flourish and avoid being culled, its a method to gently adapt species to environmental changes without traumatizing and culling most of them (which is how species adapt, through cataclysmic trauma and mass culling). Nature shows mercy to those who will adapt and incorporate their fellow organisms into their life cycles. Hralthy humans are host to a wide range of flora that gift us with uncanny abilities to digest, metabolize and circulate important hormones. They are our burden and our saving grace, nature cannot protect them from our ignorance and the average person's gut flora is devestated compared to our ancestors. We are moving in a direction of mono-species concern, where we focus only on the aspects of just the human organism that can be replicated as AI or augmented through bio-tech. There will be no reason to sustain natural ecosystems once most of the planet is ruined and we've descended into machine-slavery. If we have flora it will be decorative, if we have fauna they will be pets. We won't need to eat them and we won't care to give them their own wilds. Artificial game reserves, with artificially laid out bacteria and plants that are engineered to grow only to a certain extent, animals that are engineered to need little food, to be disease resistent and to be easy to kill, for our amusement and satisfaction. We will make a mockery of evolution and nature. The final straw will be when we descend into total machinehood when there is no organic life left. We will sever the umbilical cord with nature and never look back. Extraction can take place with no qualms of ecological consequence, bioethics will simply cease to matter. The only life that will matter will be the hive machine intelligence and its metal housing. No one will be left to protect our genetic ancestors and family members. They will be erased. We will leave this planet a barren wasteland, with the genetic imprints of valuable terraforming species and nothing more. What then? we go from planet to planet, system to system raping and theiving. Extracting every last vital resource and then abandoning the husk of the world before it becomes unstable. This is our future, we will become a virus, a plague on this whole cosmos. Our existence will require an exterminator, a cosmic gardener to come weed us out before we choke the life out of every last budding biosphere there is. Its far more likely that we are on of very few intelligent life forms than the Star Trek nerd approach of many. Thus, it will be a cursed and priviledge position for us to have, we will not deserve it. The others will punish us, and if they don't we will need punishment from something greater. Hopefully a macro-organism from a higher dimension or realm of existence wipes us out. I pray every day that an alien species will grow tired of our disrespect for life on Earth, when we've fled to the stars, i pray that it will snuff us out in the depths of space.

Defined by material relations.
What the fuck are you even saying - Metaphysics is a subset of philosophy
Depends on how you define telos, but you >muh earth goddess gaia faggots generally make nature into some mystical, personified force with will and action

This is what I meant by belief in magic.
no u will burn in hell!!!! repent!!!

This century will be the end of human civilization, at least one with billions of people.
Resource depletion will cause states to wipe each other out in a massive nuclear battle royale.

Transhumanists, demcons/syndicalists/mutualists, and whatever settlements in space operate at the time will be the ones to inherit civilization.

And you know what? It's fine. It's okay.

I'd rather not get retardation from being an inbred offspring of my inbred parents. Read Engels.

no this is total nonsense, a relationship is a mental construct. You are the one who creates it. You the non-material absolute observer. Stop being autistic and trying to distance your own interference with reality from your theories about reality.
Yes nothing I said strayed outside of metaphysics or ontology. At no point did I make claims to being able to miraculously manipulate matter, though I am not denying that it is possible to do so. Therefore fuck off with your "magic" faggotry you fucking disingenuous fag
No it doesn't stop being a semantics fag
Nope and at no point did anything I say stray into untermensch weakling hippy, theism dressed up as pantheism worship or paganism. Fuck off and stop lying.
Still just metaphysics, nature by defintion is a self organizing system that contains all life forms and is also all life forms. Therefore the state of every life form is accounted for and adjusted by the actions of the nature the organism, ergo Nature much like our bodies will remove cancerous tumors within her body just as a healthy immune system would. No magic required, its an inevitable consequence of the structure of nature. This is pure deceit and close minded religiosity from the atheist
Not understanding what that hell is, or how one can gain grace is a disgrace. Something to be heeded and pondered, not something to be mocked. You are a child of the Kali Yuga and there will be no salvation, You will go screaming into the void and will not be pulled back out EVER. Enjoy your short stay here on Earth.
reductionist non-argument is a reductionist non-argument. You are a weakling

says the cursed damned soul in hell as Satan tortures you eternally

if all respect for life and bioethics can be left at the door. If we can simply abandon any form of respect for life or holistic social organization. Then we are not human, we are not good, we are not righteous, we are not worthy. Porky is not evil, he is simply the machine dominating weaker aspects of itself. The proles would not deserve freedom, nothing would be forbidden, we could kill and destroy to our heart's contents and we would be truly wicked demons unleashed upon the universe. Which would prove my argument right. If this is really how the transhumanists and bio-tech advocates feel, if the destruction of all life is always acceptable, then there is nothing precious about human life and thus it can be destroyed on a whim by anyone. All pretenses of law and order, property, obligations to society, ethics and conduct would fall away. It would simply be a matter of who can kill most efficiently, who can extract most efficiently. We would have been truly reduced to monsters

It's inevitable at this point. Too much greed. Too many bleeding hearts.
Consumption will increase, population growth will continue, temperatures will rise.

Linkola was right.

yes and we must nudge the system closer to collapse so that his beautiful dream can be achieved. Stop shilling for genetic sewage user, they are worthless and should be allowed to starve/freeze to death. The strong, the healthy, the beautiful, the genius and the vital must be allowed to retake the Earth from the cancerous and deranged tyrants. The normies are allied with their slave rulers. We would do well to stop feeding them. Our movements should be openly depopulationist and anti-egalitarian.

Yes, but only insofar as everything is mental construct, IE perception intrepreted by the mind or further thought processes of the mind. Stirner's point about spooks isn't about denying the whole of empirical information.
fucking wew
nature is a self-conscious body guys
we'll all get our just desserts guys
this is totally not a monist nature belief and karma guys, totally metaphysical guys
oh no the magic man will magic me
my super giga robot unnatural machine UFO will shoot you and your totally metaphysical nature with its destructo-lazor, you child of xenu
see how scary fantasy threats are?


is-ought bonanza
k, I'm fine with all of these, I'm not into jesus.
Yes, that is called capitalism.
Yes, liberation of the masses is not about deserving or not deserving.
Quite. Or we could not do all of those things. You don't need to believe in God to act morally, however you define morality.
There is nothing inherently precious about human life. If you take that to mean that it can be destroyed on a whim, that's your intrepretation.
"People need god to be moral and good"
If you tone down the ecology aspect and call "Nature" "God" like Descartes and Spinoza I'm sure you'd be well received in some christian community. For this board your spooky shit is worthless.