Based Feminist Engels

Daily reminder that Engels' would've hated the antifem socialists here and would have argued in favor of the need of a contemporary women's movement.


republican bourgeois uses to put the proletarian in his place. The labor contract is to be freely
entered into by both partners. But it is considered to have been freely entered into as soon as the law makes both parties equal on paper. The power conferred on the one party by the difference of class position, the pressure thereby brought to bear on the other party – the real economic position of both – that is not the law’s business. Again, for the duration of the labor contract both parties are to have equal rights, in so far as one or the other does not expressly surrender them. Thateconomic relations compel the worker to surrender even the last semblance of equal rights – here again, that is no concern of the law.

-Origin of the Family, Private Property, and The State.

Other urls found in this thread:

reddit.com/r/socialism
8ch.net/liberalpol/index.html
reddit.com/r/Anarchism
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

privileges of the capitalist class have been abolished and complete legal equality of both classes established. The democratic republic does not do away with the opposition of the two classes; on the contrary, it provides the clear field on which the fight can be fought out.And in the same way, the peculiar character of the supremacy of the husband over the wife in the modern family,
the necessity of creating real social equality between them, and the way to do it, will only be seen in the clear light of day when both possess legally complete equality of rights.Then it will be plain that the first condition for the liberation of the wife is to bring the whole female sex back
into public industry, and that this in turn demands the abolition of the monogamous family as the economic unit of society.

Protip: feminism doesn't mean equality. Men make up 99% of labor deaths, 99% of wartime deaths as well as the majority of homelessness among other social ills to include unequal treatment in domestic violence and child custody. Am I arguing that men deserve a movement?

No. I'm arguing that women's problems as well as men's would be served by doing away with capitalism. That's what Engels was after, its why he helped Marx write books about class consciousness. He didn't constantly call Marx a cishet sinner because Marx didn't constantly include the word feminism on every third sentence.

So fuck off.

hit a nerve there huh buddy

...

never did anyone suggest forsaking class consciousness, but rather that the oppression of women is intimately tied to their class position. One should not be either class or gender reductionist - there's no real conflict between the two because women's oppression is the result of their oppression as a class.

Nobody here has a problem with first-wave feminism. Everything afterwards was a mistake.

Capitalism is destroying this planet, and I am going to guess that by the time I'm in my mid fifties this global community will be in a state of collapse or at least near it.

People spouting identity politics take away from a goal that could've been completed years ago had there been any sort of unity in the socialist camp. So yeah, kind of always hits a nerve. I'm bitter because instead of a simple "destroy capitalism", there are always combination of hurt feelings, CIA and other splinter groups that have hampered this movement until it is laughable.

Seriously, what is the point of feminism? Yes, women have problems and so do men in society. By the way, thanks for completely ignoring the male problems I presented.

And women are oppressed, in 2017? You've got to be kidding me. There is no such thing as class reductionist. Either you free the proletariat from capitalism as a whole including women, men, trans, brown, blue, and red people or you don't. And you do that by…destroying capitalism, not advocating that every single spectrum of the light index makes it into a CEO position.


So why do you feel a need to even call yourself a feminist? Communism/Socialism recognizes that people are oppressed in different ways. Intersectionality is not wrong. But the end solution is to topple capitalism, not ask people to stop hurting your feelings.

I don't disagree, and to an extend I'd even be cool with second wave. Third wave is a joke, and possibly the greatest tool Western countries have had to split their working classes into tiny little pieces.

That's not what I said at all. I was referencing the idpol feminism that we all hate and try desparately to keep off this board. The kind he advocates has been achieved already for a huge amount of women in the west and is a non-issue. Class struggle is the issue.

That better not include "gender is a social construct" bullshit.

Gender is a biological construct

My shared agreement with feminism ended once they started creating problems instead of solving them. Voting rights was an issue that needed to be solved, so did equal rights under the law in other ways.

All of that has come about. Second wavers wanted equal access to jobs, basically to be seen as the equals of men across professionals and across life. But third wavers just wave their hands and create problems for themselves, when the final thing they should've done is thrown themselves behind the toppling of capitalism as the final stage of both women's and humanity's liberation. Instead they want to try to change the superstructure while a base (capitalism) continues to poison society and the relations that occur under it.

Like right now… even debating gender relations is useless as shit. I'm tired of hearing about it. You're not going to get anywhere when Porky will use his influence in media, culture and education to continue to push gender relations that serve the final uses of capital and profit. Capitalism's destruction will open the way to a truly free attempt to redefining gender relations, but to do it now is fucking folly and a waste of time to be honest. It's like rearranging garden ornaments while your house burns to the ground.

Our planet is slowly degrading thanks to capitalism. Social relations degrade thanks to capitalism. Human dignity degrades under capitalism. And someone really thinks its the time to talk about how they don't want to be assumed to be a man just because they have a penis in their trousers and a beard on their face?

Still not grasping Engels argument eh?

Don't have the energy to argue against you but you're taking a step in the wrong direction by throwing terms you know very little about into one big bag and declaring them useless.

...

I'm not declaring them useless. I'm saying they are actively being used against the overall goal of capitalism's destruction. That's different than useless. That would be better than, for example, driving a whole visible subreddit with the namesake of our movement into the ground in a grand showcase banning users over the most trivial of things. I'm not saying feminism caused that to happen, but the people behind it universally call themselves feminist so there's some sort of connection.

Either way, I don't know what assumptions you're making about things I do or don't know but I do know that simplification is needed in order for socialism to succeed in making itself a movement. And that simplification is that men and women and all inbetween and without suffer under capitalism and the first step to ending that is to overthrow capitalism. If someone wants to exclude the whole of the UK and Australia for their culture of saying cunt because it offends feminist sensibilities, then there's an example of how "feminism" is holding back socialism's human wide goal.

Nice strawman at the end there bud. Because women's issues, though of course linked to capitalism, should be struggled against from a gender angle as well, ie, a socialist society would need to ensure that 'women's work' is as much socialized as all other work. As engels' says ' With the transfer of the means of production
into common ownership, the single family ceases to be the economic unit of society. Private
housekeeping is transformed into a social industry. The care and education of the children
becomes a public affair; society looks after all children alike, whether they are legitimate or not'. By pretending that these issues don't exist we danger ourselves by reproducing these inequalities post-revolution.

The best part is that he was also Max Stirner at the same time

Tone deafness and callousness toward the working class tends to do that on a socialist board you LARPing sack of shit.

This stupid shit you're advocating is what will ruin leftism's ability to wrest the minds of young men away from pol. No one who isn't a total cuck wants to share their women or their offspring with the whole of society. I don't want anyone but me having sex with my gf/wife and I don't want anyone but my close friends, family and community elders educating my children.

Yeah, Engels was totes looking out for women here.

You're conflating the intentions and actions of a particular political sect with the wider vision under which they continue. You're not aware of this, in the same way you're not aware that >Our planet […] on their face? carries with it nuances in its understanding both as a rational and material political dispute. Nobody is disagreeing with the premise of the necessity for the 'destruction' of Capitalism, but to make it a de jure moral or ethical claim for your personal firebrand vision of what the world should or should not look like is bigoted. Bigoted not in the sense of something deeply offensive, but bigoted in how uselessly ignorant it is of the pre-existing social conditions which prevail. Bigoted in how utterly blind it is to the relationships at play in its expression. If you continue to go down this road, you are taking a step back because you are reducing the need for simplification to the need for ignorance.

Being disgusted by the bourgeois perversion of socialism being doled out by these morons is fine. Being a willing reference for the two faced conjuring trick-tier arguments they dish out to win over the naive, however, is not. Try to understand what they're doing, and why it isn't working.

do you think family could exist in a communist society?
why would you in that case be against people not from your family raising your kids in a proper (communist) way?
no one is going to collectivise women, gtfo with that silly meme

Oh look a retard irrelevantly shitting about his cuckhold fetish what a surprise.

Also, I guess you're afraid of daycare and sending your kids to school. Look, in a society built off of free association you and your family can live an isolated conservative lifestyle, but on aggregate a socialist society should build new social institutions compatible with the new mode of production rather than recreating the old ones for traditions sake.

Daily reminder that ancoms contribute absolutely fucking nothing to this board besides shilling for paedophiles, calling consent a spook and whining about Nazbols.

...

Listen, regarding socializing women's work I don't find any problem with it. Childcare center staffed by human beings of all sorts would be a bedrock of any socialist society. It takes a village to take care of a child, and I don't deny that. This isn't feminism, its socialism. And I think Engels would agree that you don't need feminism to tell you things that socialism has already brought under its umbrella. And by the way, disregard that Holla Forums cunt who came in here to call you a cuck. He or she doesn't realize preschool and grade school are basically the same thing we're talking about, except it doesn't go as far.

But current feminism as it stands, no matter how you want to frame it doesn't contribute anything useful. In fact, I mention "hurt feelings" because as it stands that's about all the current feminism serves to prop up. Safe spaces, making sure no one is offended and etc. If you're what people call materialist or leftism feminist then by all means you and I are teammates except I call myself just a socialist instead of a feminist. But no need to splinter the movement into ever more -ists. Socialism will take care of men and women alike. As it stands feminism misses out on a lot, including men's rights folks who don't feel their issues are taken care of by your movement. Socialism can accommodate all.

Thanks, you contributed absolutely nothing of value. That's exactly what your over-analysis of something which needs to be simplified for the working class as a whole does. As I said above, I am quite sure many of the goals of feminists and myself overlap as a socialist. I don't deny that. But to splinter the working class just because you want to make something more out of the statement "we are all oppressed under capitalism" is the reason leftists the world over aren't in any position to do anything except get laughed at.

Even when I say "destroy capitalism", apparently I'm a bigot. That's idpol for you. Like I said, feel free to call anyone who wants to merely destroy capitalism a bigot while the ice caps melt and Bangalore becomes uninhabitable in the next few years. I'm sure their residents would want to hear why my solution is wrong because I don't pay special attention to every single tiny relationship that is inevitably perverted anyway due to capitalism at its base.

Wrong quoted person in my second go round, meant to quote:

Fuck you nigger, I 'm arguing against this dumbshit.

You haven't understood what 'bigoted' means in this case you fucking moron. The second to last thing 'the left needs' is the CWI. The last thing 'the left needs' is attitudes like the one you have right now. You're not bothering to grapple with what others are saying because you have a preformed idea of what's already been said. The world isn't going to go away because you disagree with it.

If Engels was alive today, he would be posting about his robowaifu

Fuck Engels and his opinion.

Engels isn't the pope or prophet of socialism. Take what is valueble and leave out the bullshit. No theorist is infallible. Cult of personality is pathetic, especially being espoused by an anarchist.

If you're an anti-feminist you either haven't read or understood Marx tbh. It's fine to reject specific strains of feminist theory, such as liberal or radical feminism, but Marxist feminism is a thing for a very good reason. Engels was based.

this tbh

anti-feminists know nothing about Engels, they base their opinions on videos by youtube videos by gamergate e-celebs and have probably never read a book in their lives

men are actually treated better than women if you only count the men who actually apply to have custody of their kids.


I could come up with just as many statistics for barriers to quality of life for women that are far more likely to happen to you than dying on the job or at war.

take this retarded shit back to MGTOW or whatever.

you don't have to be an idpol shill to realize how full of shit half of the so-called socialists here are on women's lib.

Fuck off right back to /r/socialism idpol scum.

women already have all the rights,
Engles lived in a different time

radical feminists are doubling down on nonsense because well… were really running out of things to find injustice in,
fighting over spooks is ridiculous

do something about your sexual frustration and then open up some Marx you insufferable cunt.

do something about your sexual frustration and then open up some Marx you insufferable cunt.

Anarchists fighting anarchists about idpol. Y'all are really just swallowing the bait are you?

Currently under capitalism females are actually the class of social opressor, that will be obeyed on any opinion and has lots of fucking money from exploiting many men by promising sexual pleasure, doesn't even need to deliver it. They are one of many bourgeois movements of modern social democracy, that exploits and canibalises men on their own achieved freedom.

I know you are but what am I!11

seriously though, get out retard.

Disagreeing with how you see the world does not mean they disagree with the world.


None of what they said was MGTOW or right wing you idiot, but mere oppression Olympics.


As a black male, I find this offensive, if anyone who needs to open up some Marx its you.

...

This.

...

Bourgeois feminism does this literally every day.

no socialist or leftist is against women's rights

women and men are a material distinction, one might even argue one that has developed on it's own outside class struggle (but not uninfluenced by it)

The thing is, there's a clear line between emancipation of women, which are a real material group, and fighting for the "rights" of groups that only serve to provide arbitrary division in the proletariat. All trash idpol belongs here, from the concept of race to the concept of gender, all idealist bourgeoisie fantasy groupings to create division and nothing else.

I wonder if this video will trigger some consumerist whores in this thread.

You seem to be lost this is a socialism board, maybe a IDpol friendly place would be better suited for you.
Try these links friend, they are much better communities for one such as yourself.

reddit.com/r/socialism
8ch.net/liberalpol/index.html
reddit.com/r/Anarchism

Its too late. Holla Forums is already more liberal than liberalpol.

do statistics trigger you, or is that just your shitposting flag?

That's classist you fucking retard. Not everyone can afford that shit. And aside from being racist like points out, the courts are classist as well, meaning if a poor dude applies for custody he'll be seen as unfit, especially next to the woman.

what triggers me is the music

Would you prefer it if we let idpolers keep their hegemonic presence in anarchism?

Reminder that feminists would hate Engels guts, since he was the epitome of brocialist and toxic masculinity.
A bro of his time. Could drink like a fish and walk straight the other day, as if nothing happened (unlike Marx), his parties were legendary.

That's my criticism you dim twat