What is Holla Forums deal with Intersectionality?

Can someone explain to me when it comes to bringing true equality to society why we should not accept intersectionality?

Take something like the drug war for example. It is Porky peddling drugs to different races and putting black people into jail. The drug war definitely puts poc into jail/prison at way more alarmingly high rate. So why not try and at least help them so we can gather all the forces we can.

How is the people's revolution against porky supposed to take place if the workers aren't united?

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Because its idealist drivel

I think the issues lies in the fact that pro-equality identity politics have gotten so divorced from leftism that they've become a thing of their own. In liberals' hands, the fight is now solely against racism, hatred of women, etc. and we "cure" it by changing attitudes.

In leftism, "identity politics" are heavily linked with addressing classism as well, and the "cure" is to overthrow capitalism and implement communism/anarchism instead. IDpol, in the hands of leftists, can be used to pitch anti-capitalism to, for example, black people because police and the criminal justice system terrorize them to stock prisons for profit.

IDpol should be used to help pinpoint the source of peoples' problems, and unite us against toppling the source of them, not divide us, or obscuring the cause of our woes.

How so?

There is already a thread about it

Yeah but that still doesn't change the argument about how much they could contribute to the movement.

Exactly.

Sorry! Didn't see that thread but it's almost dead anyway.

Down with this bollocks

Wow, since when did this place become such an echo chamber?

>>>/reddit/

Bookchin was right.
youtube.com/watch?v=C1rvIRtb1AM

Since the other thread is still there.

What the fuck is it with redditors constantly making threads trying to win us over for their shitty site? There's already an exact copy of this thread in the catalog. Mods need to delete this spam.

Holy shit it's at the bottom of the catalog. So many muh privileged shit lords here.

No, you're right, we should try to help people being jailed.

The problem with the current brand of intersectionality is that the answer isn't to have less criminals or prison reform or legal reform or anything like that, it's too just have more black cops, wardens, and judges, because they're black, and so are connected to the black people hive mind and won't oppress their fellow blacks, unlike those perfidious Whites, whose fault this all is to begin with.

Socialism's answer is that pains should be taken to alleviate the burdens of the working class, and especially those forms of oppression particular to certain groups, but only so long as the tactics are oriented toward the ultimate goal of emancipating the proletariat. Like the university protests the year before last, their demands were just too have more female and colored deans or whatever. Socialism knows that the results of any system won't differ if the overall system remains intact. Even if you had Karl Marx as president of the US, we still wouldn't get socialism because the entire system is designed from top to bottom to make sure that can't happen.

So if we're trying to stop the over representation of blacks in prison, intersectionality tells us to just fill the prisons with White people and run them with black people. Socialism tells us to burn down the prisons.

This ^

Nigger it's on page two with the last reply less than an hour ago.

What is even the end goal of Intersectionality?

Like, sure, you've established the proper oppression arithmetic and you now know a person with those and those traits is lower in the hierarchy than a person with those other set of traits. Where do you even go from here?

If this is going to translate into anything material other than mere in-fighting, you must go to politics. With politics, you'll still have to settle with the following: what can be done to help those oppressed people is still largely defined by the machineries of the state. This, in turn, is defined by questions of political economy, of public initiative, of welfare, of taxes, all of which Intersectional theory does not prepare you to deal with at all.

Then you have the question of the origin and character of these "systems of oppression". Black people have it worse in America, why? "Because white people are racist" would be mistaking cause and effect. Bigotry between different groups in different positions of power will always exist, no matter how many words or habits you try to censor or legislate. The cause is material. It's about historical poverty, social stratification, about how unequal access to proper education and training is, the difficulty of social mobility, and how these are perpetuated by a system that is defined mostly by inheritance and private property, and all of those have to do with questions of history and economics.

Someone with a materialist, economic view of history would look at the latter to find answers to the former. You identify the material roots of oppression and you expand the means of democratic public initiative accordingly to provide a solution. Intersectionality does not necessarily negate that, but usually it's stuck inbetween, concerning itself more with who is more oppressed and why, accepting prevailing political dogma to provide a solution (hence yasss queen Hillary womyn in the white house) and mistaking individual bigotry of those "above" as the source of oppression. Which is why now they're trying to exorcise racism even when there's none, going more and more into "subconscious" and "internalized" white supremacy, because their entire analysis depends on that. Once you get rid of those, they'll come up with new signs of internalized white supremacy and new norms for it, and black people will not be a single step further in fixing the gap that exists between blacks and whites in America.

So it's easier to just reject and instead focus on the material, on increasing the democratic control over ou material ways of life, which will provide any group with a wider array of choices and mechanisms to engage inequality. Then, hopefully, this is where their energies would be focused, instead of complaining that white people are appropriating their Vine memes.


yeah I know but for the most part they're not Marxists not even socialists, just liberal shitdicks

The human mindset simply doesn't work.

It's a great mode of detached analysis, but it will always devolve into oppression olympics.

At best "true equality" is impossible to pin down. In the middle it's a spook (believing it's a concrete thing and sacrificing your self-interest for its sake). At worst it's a cudgel in the hands of pseudo-leftists who want to make everyone conform.
Burden of proof is on you to tell us why we should accept it.

Because the source of the problem is the system that encourages Porky to do this. There's nothing special about black people except that historical circumstance made them a convenient demographic for Porky to use as designated for less sympathy. Suggesting that the problem can be solved (or even ameliorated really) by changing something about black people instead of the system is to suggest that there's something different about black people other than being marked as different by the system. It's awfully fucking convenient how you leave your proposed method as vague as "help them." We can do that by getting rid of capitalism, but this vagueness is exactly the kind of tool that idpolers use to beat people over the head when they don't do what the idpolers want. When you're this vague with your rhetoric you can use it to mean basically anything, which makes it really unsurprising that these ideas appeal so much to bleeding heart types. There's zero substance here.

How are the workers supposed to be united if they keep getting split up into subgroups and holding dick waving contests over which subgroup eats the most shit from Porky?

Read this.

We don't care about what colour your ass is or whether you have an ass or not. As long as you are willing to smash capitalism we will welcome you. Intersectionality is nothing but trying to create better conditions within capitalism. Which isn't necessarily bad for the people involved, however, not our end goal. It will also create infighting, because, it creates many different group identities, which could easily be manipulated and fractured by capitalists. Intersectionality won't save us from ecological catastrophe. By abolishing capitalism you would achieve the same result for all groups of intersectionality at once, in addition to regaining control of the means of production.