Is the opposition to water fluoridation just another conservashit plot to undermine the New Deal-era gains of the working class? Seeing people genuinely oppose something so safe and effective is utterly baffling imo, but then again this is the same country that refuses to teach sex education and then stands around scratching its nuts wondering why teen pregnancy is so fucking high.
Anyway, what's the deal? Is it just an incidental casualty of conspiracy culture, or are capitalist interests actually working to undermine it, or both?
Anyone who wants flouride in their water is a fucking tard. You want to stop teeth rotting, use fucking topical flouride, if people won't brush their teeth, I don't want a fucking internal chemical in my blood and bones, that is poison, because somebody else can't brush.
If there is a problem with teeth, take the money out of flouride and spend it in school where kids brush together, and get discounts on sonic toothbrushes and waterflossers which do more than flouride ever will.
Chase Parker
This guy is right. Flouride protects teeth when applied topically, not when ingested. Also flouride in water causes dental flourosis in many people. Another concern is some kind of error and way too much flouride being put in which can lead to skeletal flourosis or poisoning (has happened).
Plus there are other concerns with flouride ingestion such as a potential link to hypothyroidism iirc. Plus it's just not something you want in you, could be leading to other health issues as far as we know.
Adam Diaz
One more point to add is something interesting I read recently about chemicals we put into our bloodstream that can't pass the blood brain barrier, but can potentially interfere with our gut bacteria (basically our second brain).
Can't even remember if flouride was an issue but I do remember chemicals in vaccines were pointed out. Could be complete bollacks though.
Logan Perry
Good thing fluoride is water soluble and you just urinate it out then.
Dominic Harris
Great, the rest is caught in the digestive tract and enters the bloodstream. For what purpose are we putting it in water when it is pointless and doesn't improve dental health compared to non flouridated countries?
Oliver Edwards
I imagine it's going into the water because it's a low cost and practically completely safe way to discourage tooth decay as has been an established medical fact for the better part of a century.
Why, what do you think it's being used for? According to Wikipedia a month's supply of sodium chloride costs less than half a pound, so I doubt it's a conspiracy by Big Fluoride
Tyler Kelly
I'd be genuinely interested to hear responses to OP's question, rather than fucktards taking the water fluoridation is bad meme seriously and arguing about it.
Michael Gomez
Yeah, me too.
David Rogers
It was already answered, fluoridated water isn't particularly effective at helping teeth, brushing with fluoridated toothpaste is. At best it's a waste of public money that could be better spent elsewhere.
Grayson Jenkins
Except that doesn't seem to be true in the least bit.
Unless your ground water is exceptionally fluoridated or you're swallowing mouthfuls of toothpaste it sounds benign. I don't suppose you'd like to pose some counter evidence.
David Cox
Folks, we have the documents from Reuters, Associated Press, Drudge, with the global elite admitting its soft kill program to accelerate their satanic globalist control grid.
Bentley Cooper
If it's as cheap as Wikipedia says it is then that's basically a non-issue considering a month's worth costs less than a candy bar.
Or am I compromised because I've already been vaccinated and brainwashed by my pasteurized milk?
Justin Bell
except you didn't answer his question, because he was asking what motive anti-communists could have for opposing fluoridation, rather than asking the fucking morons in the room who think it's actually harmful what they think about the notion of water fluoridation itself.
Mason Edwards
It has no benefit over countries that do not, none, it hinders a big % childrens teeth development permanently through destruction of the enamel. Calling people morons because you are a liberal arsehole conditioned to react to everything as a conspiracy, isn't helpful.
You wouldn't accept fluoride added to your food, it has no reason to be added to water.
Asher Campbell
That doesn't make any sense because it's the exact opposite of how the chemistry works. Considering also that it doesn't accumulate in the body what you're saying doesn't make any sense at all. It defies basic chemistry.
So unless you have some sources or evidence to contribute maybe you should shut up and move along.
Ayden Torres
The fuck are you babbling about, give evidence of 'how it doesn't work' or fuck off.
Henry Kelly
notice how I never mentioned conspiracies at all in my post, I only commented on your unsubstantiated claims that fluoridation is harmful, and the fact that you're derailing the thread because it was taken for granted by the OP that nobody was this scientifically illiterate.
Camden Bennett
The science is that fluoride does not pass through the body without reacting, it causes a multitude of reactions, most notably with bones, in high flouride areas, they will harden and become more brittle, in young peoples teeth the enamel can be stripped and destroyed. None of this is disputed.
The OP made a claim the science was settled, it is, Flouride is not beneficial, in comparision to non flouridated counties, outside of being cheap, and has guaranteed problems for portions of the population.
Moreover, it's forced medicine and ethically the state has no business deciding for people their treatment.
Caleb Collins
As to the question of Communism, there would be no water fluoridation as the State does not have that power to decide, the question is moot from that angle.
Carson Hill
You're the one that needs to fuck off. You haven't provided a single scrap of evidence for your bogus assertions.
So provide some evidence or fuck off.
I was thinking less of it being some grand conspiracy and more about it just being another consequence of capitalism. It just seems like the opposition to water fluoridation mimics capitalist campaigns against other New Deal-era policies and initiatives. I might just be paranoid, but then you have people like the faggot in this very thread acting like other online shills and it makes me wonder.
Ayden King
we're still waiting for you to substantiate all of these claims.
doubt.jpg
no he didn't, it was just implied because the thread wasn't fucking about the science behind fluoride reactions to begin with.
this is how I know you're either a Holla Forumsyp or some other variety of fucking lunatic. get out.
Robert Nelson
no but you sound like a fucking cucked typical scientism fag shilling for chemical companies. Which most left leaning liberals can't help but doing. None of us say conservashit and you unironically think "muh highways and dams that destroy whole ecosystems to power muh bug people cities" have anything to do with pouring chemical waste into the water supply.
William Sanders
Wait this is really something people worry about? I thought they made it up in Dr Strangelove as a joke
Gavin Bennett
Yeah, nothing has ever been proven uneccesary and harmful after the Government and a few people made a joke out of concerns. Must be CONSERVTARDS LOL
Jayden Wood
It's not quite as prevalent as vaccines or chemtrails but online at least you get people that freak out about it, like the autist in this very thread.
Are you going to post some evidence to support your bullshit or will you fuck off?
Aaron Nguyen
nice job strawmanning
there is no strong evidence for or against flouridating water to prevent tooth decay. There is a mountain of studies on the adverse health effects of flouride on brain development and bone development
there are more studies but I don't want to use databases or have to enter uni keys to get into them. check sci-hub for more info if you are interested
TLDR: there is little to know strong evidence that water flouridation is worth the adverse side effects especially regarding bone health and brain development.
My original comment was deleted. I don't know if it was an error or if it was intentional. Either way there is little evidence that Flouride is benign or safe, especially considering its effect on brain development and bone health. Also the leftypol tendency to suck the big chemical and biotech firms cocks because they donate to academia is disturbing. Additionally the language you're using suggests you're a skepdick, rationalist liberal who doesn't belong here. I suggest you leave now before you get further triggered by actual leftism
Matthew Mitchell
Tell me why flouride is in your water now?
Ethan Cook
Any response?
Angel Garcia
Well, let's see from the very first one.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8897754 >Sodium fluoride has been used to treat established osteoporosis for nearly 30 years. Recent trials of this agent, prescribed at high doses, have suggested that despite a marked increase in bone mineral density, there is no concomitant reduction in vertebral fracture incidence. Furthermore, the increase in bone density at the lumbar spine may be achieved at the expense of bone mineral in the peripheral cortical skeleton. As a consequence, high dose sodium fluoride (80 mg daily) is not currently used to treat osteoporosis. At lower doses, recent trials have suggested a beneficial effect on both bone density and fracture. The majority of epidemiological evidence regarding the effect of fluoridated drinking water on hip fracture incidence is based on ecological comparisons. Although one Finnish study suggested that hip fracture rates in a town with fluoridated water were lower than those in a matching town without fluoride, a later study failed to show differences. Ecological studies from the United States and Great Britain have, if anything, revealed a weak positive association between water fluoride concentration and hip fracture incidence.Two studies examining hip fracture rates before and after fluoridation yielded discordant results, and are complicated by underlying time trends in hip fracture incidence. Only two studies have attempted to examine the relation between water fluoride concentration and fracture risk at an individual level. In one of these, women in a high fluoride community had double the fracture risk of women in a low fluoride community.
>In the other, there was no relationship between years of fluoride exposure and incidence of spine or non-spine fractures. In conclusion, the epidemiological evidence relating water fluoridation to hip fracture is based upon ecological comparisons and is inconclusive. However, several studies suggest the possibility of a weak adverse effect, which warrants further exploration.
So you've got your very first source saying basically the exact opposite of that.
My guess would actually be that people brushing more and more people brushing has a stronger effect on tooth decay than drinking water is.
I guess this is where they got the data from since it doesn't seem to cite any particular paper. Looking at Sweden's profile for example:
So yeah, in Sweden about that time dental care expanded, and subsequently DMFT went down. Being Sweden it looks like it only got more generous as time went on, which is probably what contributed to the steep decline.
So yeah, it doesn't really seem like you know what you're talking about at all.
Carson Parker
The fuck are you even trying to pull here?
Adrian Hernandez
Sorry, I don't have any JPEG graphs to guide you through it.
Wyatt Adams
You are full of shit, the evidence is Flouride has a null effect in first world countries, and modern dental equipment like sonic toothbrushes and waterpiks should be subsidised as they eradicate all unnecessary decay and gum disease.
Jaxon Cook
You are an idiot. Fluoride is present in all watersources naturally, all flouridation does is increase or decrease the level to the ideal. Overflouridation doesn't actually damage your teeth, the brown teeth are very healthy, it's just that the colour caused by an overdose is unpleasant and that the teeth get bigger since the flouride keeps adding on more layers, which can be bad.
Jayden Murphy
never mind that I actually hate these kinds of smug cunts, but you used 'conspiracy' and started bringing this up before I did, all I've done is asked for proof.
you posting papers you've never even read and graphs that you think imply causality mean that liberal idiots wouldn't even need to call you a conspiracy theorist and resort to ad hominems, they could just rightfully point out how fucking scientifically illiterate you are.
kill yourself my dude.
Charles Miller
Here is a good review of past studies and conclusions for and against fluoridation.
TL;DR: the means of getting fluoride into tooth enamel to make it more resistant to decay are entirely topical as far as people can tell, meaning that the fluoride in toothpaste and rinses is good enough. Upon ingesting fluoridated drinking water and distributing it throughout the body, the means of application are through saliva, where a much lower general dose is applied. On the other hand there is evidence of high fluorine concentrations causing more brittle bones and having harmful effects on development.
STL;DR: Ingesting fluoride is inefficient for obtaining its effect and potentially has some bad side effects.
Jace Lewis
none of the things you said are arguments and i read the abstracts and understand strong and weak correlation my dude. you can feign authority but they use toxic waste to flouridate the waters in most major cities. Its not medical/lab grade flouride, its refuse from chemical plants. Not the same shit you put on your toothbrush at all.
yes but i read the abstracts and they support what i was saying science has never ever ever in the history of its existence proven causality is real and there are a billion and one arguments from secular perspectives alone that could convincingly assert causality is impossible to determine or appreciate how about you lighten up, its a disgustingly gloomy world out there. you probably shouldn't dwell on death too much again i read the abstracts understand the basics of sample size, strong versus weak correlation and can read between the lines in terms of if the authors are really confident and if there is any merit to the publications. again i didn't have time to go on sci-hub or read them, i have other shit to do. That doesn't logically negate even one part of what i asserted. You fucking faggots always do this cheap shit where you aren't willing to give an inch to oppositional theories and claims about """"""""""""scientific"""""""""""""""" statist and capitalist practices. Like anti-depressants that destroy your libido, make teenagers suicidal and then end up in the drinking water and inside all of our fish and marine life. But, im not gonna let you do that here because i know there are people reading this who may not be completely brain washed. I posted 6 links, 3 of them i think were worthwhile and supported my points. It has effects on bone health, on neurological development, on the endocrine system, on your teeth in excess etc etc etc. Is it the worst thing in the world? no. its not something that should be in all the drinking water
Isaac Cook
this
kys retard
Liam Gomez
Fam's right. Look up fluorosilicic acid. It's a byproduct of mining operations that is disposed of as a mass medication. Also, please Pic related.
Luke Gomez
since you're persisting with this bullshit, I'm forced to debunk it instead of letting you take my word for it on how scientifically illiterate you are.
you may have read the abstracts but as points out, the first one literally supports the opposite of what you're saying. additionally, studies on high fluoride drinking water areas aren't applicable to areas where what is considered a safe dose is added to the water. protip: some areas of the world actually have shitloads of fluoride in their drinking water that leeches in from mineral sources. this is an actual problem. the concentrations we're talking about are dramatically different, and seem to be what those studies are referring to.
already pointed out why your cherry picked graphs are stupid. a philosophical argument about 'duh causality doesn't real' means little in this situation, because all you're doing is admitting that your claims can neither be proven nor disproven by your own standards. it's like saying 'sorry, burgers aren't real and neither is reality' when someone orders a big mac off you while working at maccas.
I'm not stupid enough to think anti-depressants work fine and aren't severely excellent, this is you taking a caricature of a left-liberal 'skeptic' or self-declared 'science nerd' and projecting it onto anyone who disagrees with the contrarian viewpoint you've felt obliged to take up.
literally the only point you've made that wasn't completely retarded.
Owen Phillips
heh, pr*blematic wordfilters to excellent.
Jaxson Martin
No, you're just fucking stupid.
You have countries, cavities, and water fluoridation as factors. Despite the country and the water fluoridation, cavities decline across the board, which indicates another factor is at work diminishing the prevalence of tooth decay. At almost the exact point your shitty graphs start you have Sweden providing insurance which increased access to dental care–where I would imagine they use fucking fluoride in all the shit they clean your teeth with.
So drawing the conclusion that fluoridated water is bad or useless based on such insufficient data simply doesn't follow. Combine that with the studies that you posted that talk about the beneficial effects of fluoride, except when its in constant or especially high doses which is also well known.
No, you're just fucking wrong you massive shitheap. Even your own sources say you're wrong.
Unfuck yourself you dumb asshole.
Carson Ward
I can't tell if this is bait or not but here we go.
fluoride promotes good oral health. it's cheap, it's one of the safest chemicals humans ingest daily
so why not use it, right? the alternative is we just get it in oral care products. If it weren't in our water, the poor would suffer and subsequently seek help only in the most dire of situations. and of course, if your too poverty stricken to take of your self in the first place, chances are you probably not going to pay for that root canal. thus there's another state owned deficit.
tl;dr: the cost versus consequence ratio is heavily tilted in favor of fluoridation.
Isaac Hall
Interesting how you shifted the goalpost from continuously ingested mass medication in the water to topical application. Surely with all your physiological knowledge you're aware that's an invalid comparison?
here, is this meant to be a shitposting flag? because I didn't see him/her shift any goalposts, all he did was point out why correlation =/= causation in re to old mate's cherrypicked graphs.
Jace Lee
What about the OP is bait?
The 'goal posts' weren't shifted at all you massive dipshit. You have a retard here shouting against the vast medical consensus and even his own evidence that fluoridated water is
Which isn't true. It's harmful in large quantities, but so is salt. Some iodized salt is good for you, but too much is harmful, but that doesn't make salt poison. He uses shitty graphs to try and portray water fluoridation as useless, but are really just meaningless, especially with all the evidence posted showing that fluoride provided by water is beneficial, but not as effective as topical application. So while fluoridation is beneficial in place of nothing, it isn't as effective as other direct methods and dental care, which flies right in the face of this idiot's assertions.
Explaining such things isn't 'shifting goalposts.' Don't use terms you don't understand you stupid shit heap.
Julian Wilson
also is pretty interesting:
from a few quick searches, the problems with this I can see is potentially causing lead retention in the water (which I've heard of conflicting evidence for and against) and arsenic. if anyone has studies showing these are/aren't problems, post away. the thread's already been derailed from a discussion about anti-communist hysteria in regards to water fluoridation anyway.
Hunter Morgan
water fluoridation is a dastardly commie plot to corrupt people's precious bodily fluids and should be supported and demanded by all the working people of the world.
Logan Allen
Seems to me that a single-payer universal health care system would be more effective at preventing cavities than allowing industrial operations to dump their leftovers in our drinking water.
Jackson King
That's how I used to treat it too until I read some papers, particularly this one:
