I didn't play TF2 back when it came out, I only got into it when it went free

I played TF2 on release and I love me a good long game of 2fort. Not anymore of course, fucking valve.

I disagree completely. 2Fort's only problem is that engineers tend to drag on the gameplay. Some may consider that a positive thing and a testament to how well designed the map is, but I am not sure how to classify it myself.
As is expected. The snipers mainly use either the tunnels or the middle area and guard it, or battle other snipers. This provides an excellent barrier for either team to surpass before entering the base, unless they use the underground path which, most of the time, will give them another challenge, being engineers who often put senty nests there.
Adding a ladder or stairs out of the water would definitely ruin the flow of the map. Those who fall into the water (Who would accidently fall in it anyway, it's really easy not to fall in to) will find themselves either at an advantage or disadvantage depending on how much defense is set up in the tunnels. If nobody noticed your entry, you may even get away scratch-free and that much closer to the intel.
This is just downright untrue. While the one spawn point leading to the sniper deck isn't much of a chokepoint, the other certainly is. The area in front provides a great path to the intel room - a path many invaders tend to use. It's a crucial point to hold, maybe even moreso than the other door leading to the intel room.
Like what? They're all within reach.
Untrue again. Many times a scout isn't enough, especially if there's a sentry nest in the intel room. Also, it's separated like such because putting it any closer to the owning team's spawn point would just be unfair. It'd also make the opposing team's job easier, as the intel would be easier to secure and, once one gets the other team's intel across the bridge, they are most likely in the clear.

t. professional Quake Live and UT '99 player, used to play TF2 frequently (before the uber update)

The only fun I ever had with 2Fort was playing with two of my friends and coordinating with them. The usual setup we had Soldier/Heavy/Medic.
We'd practically win games by ourselves.

That's because TF2 is a game built around teamwork. Make a plan against the 4 Snipers and 6 Engineers who are all playing solo and suddenly you'll find yourself racking up a lot of points.

The problem with this is that if you get lit up by Pyro, there is literally no way to save yourself if not throwing yourself in the water.

Which brings me to another huge gripe about this map, there are no fucking medikits anywhere, they're all hidden away, far from every area that is actually used for fights.

Thanks to the top of the bridge snipers can only fight other snipers. What's even the point of having them there?

Why would you ever take the path that takes you directly in front of the enemy spawn where they have free health and ammo when you can just take a diversion that takes exactly as long?
The only people I've seen fighting there were pubstompers that were spawn camping.

I don't know man, it might've been different at the start but right now all you have to do to win is to run over there three times and nobody will be able to stop you unless an engi has set up a maxed turret in the intel room.

In which case you might as well be fucked because disabling it is going to be an absolute pain in the ass because of the chokepoints

The worst problem is how stalemate-prone it is. The only 2 routes to the intel are both very long chokepoints. An enemy can just watch the radar to see which of those routes you try to escape from, and corner you there. It's very hard to get away with anything.

This made me laugh, because that problem is way worse in the classic version. There's 0 medkits anywhere, they wanted to make Medics necessary for winning. The problem with that is that medics are fucking sonic speed bunnyhopping dickheads and don't have time to heal your sorry ass.

2fort was fun sometimes when you were sick of playing the game correctly.

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I guess that explains the weird medkits positioning at least

I've never been that good at a muliplayer game tbh

That's just a plus for using Pyro. There needs to be some water in every map or, at the very least, some method of extinguishing fire, if not medkits. As you said, medkits are scarce and mostly limited to the base, so be lucky you have that river thing.

Even with the roof, people crossing are vulnerable for a short amount of time which the snipers can take advantage of as long as there isnt another sniper bothering them, or worse. If the bridge's roof were not there, there'd be too much of a disadvantage to crossing above ground and everybody would go in the tunnels, ruining the flow. The roof also allows a secondary method of crossing to the other base for the more mobile classes.

It depends of course on how you got into their intel room in the first place. Taking the other route has its own disadavantages as well, but the one near the enemy spawn has an advantage of being very close to two separate exit points which both lead you to the bridge - a.k.a. freedom.

This is another moot point. You have to at least assume both teams are coherent and not just sitting idly by while someone takes their intel. A lone scout isn't enough to win and cap three times in a short amount of time.

It is in my experience unfortunately.

I guess it really is just down to personal preference, I don't like it because it feels incredibly different from every other map in the game.

As one of those people, I can explain all of that.

Right where they should be. Fuck snipers. They only stay in one position anyway typically.
That detour is also seldom occupied which is why I always take it as spy Because running backwards across the bridge no longer works because the bridge is too narrow
The space in front of spawn literally contains the two exit points to defend for your intel what the fuck are your talking about?
The only one I have any issues with is the courtyard. You aren't supposed to solo engies. You're supposed to build an uber and do a big team push. TEAM fortress 2.
Yeah those are called chokepoints. Do you really want to have to battle through the entire map from all directions at all times? The intel would never move.

Never go into game design, you miss the point of the entire thing. Also these maps are designed for a certain ammount of players so if you play on those servers with a larger max player count that can be part of the problem of 2fort not being fun.

Nigger all your descriptions are great except none of them actually work that way.

Your whole rebuttal was great except that it actually wasn't.

At least try to tear my shit down. Are we here to "discuss video games" or yell at each other across the room like drunkards?

This is just fucking stupid. You have a class that is basically doing nothing except killing each other, yeah sure they have one split second to kill another enemy before they jump down the balcony but it's so not fun that I doubt how that can be called good design.

That's a plus for the spy, but for every other class it's a massive annoyance. I barely even see anyone playing spy when I play 2Fort

One leads to the balcony, the other one leads to the courtyard with the stairs. There's no reason to pass through it, it's basically equivalent to killing yourself.

If you pass through the lower part of the map to go to the courtyard people coming out of the spawn to the courtyard from above will barely have a chance to stop you, especially if you're playing scout.

Chokepoints for what?
Look at turbine, the ways to reach the intel actually quickly connect to the rest of the map, meaning that every time you play it, your whole team will find itself naturally progress to the main chokepoint.
In 2Fort the intel is so far away with corridors so long that none of your team will ever get there.

It's like, yeah sure I understand the point of all of these things, the problem is that nobody uses them the way they were supposed to be used. Most of the Attack Defense classes are stopped at the bridge. Snipers stay on their own. Medics help the fight.
That's it, there's so many chokepoints between even just the courtyard and the bridge that no other classes but the scout or maybe spy will ever get to the intel

There are holes in the bridge roof, get good
Fuck snipers
Imagine that, a class based game where not all classes have the same function
Actually dickheads(soldier/demomen) will spend some time camping that area and picking off weaker class spawns(scout/engie/spy) as a distraction for whoever is getting the intel. It's happened to me several times and is very annoying especially if your whole team is out of base.
Yes, a specific class has some advantages in some cases in this class based shooter

Yeah. Well the game has been out for a long time now. Most people don't take it seriously anymore and just play it like all modes are battle royale.

There is nothing at stake. The intel can rot. Because they've been playing 2fort for like 8 years or something.

2fort is an objectively bad map for tf2, but it works well in tfc and qwtf. Most people don't like it for good reason. if someone likes it, it's likely they're a shitter at a childrens game.

Just because it's shit doesn't mean it isn't a classic FPS map.

I can tell.

2Fort is widely considered a shit map. It's iconic because it's the one CTF map the game released with being based on the maps from the older games and is enjoyed only to fuck around in and deliberately ignore the objective.

I would like to add that Hightower is the stalematefort equivalent for payload race: it's shit.

Its simple stupid fun where the objective is basically secondary by force.
All the stupid shit they've added over the years don't work and 2fort doesn't give a shit about pro players most of the time so even noobs can have a good time on it. If you're playing 2fort just to capture the flag you're doing it wrong, fucking play the actual game and kill dudes.

If you want a shit show, here you go

There are none.

I legitimately despised that map back when I played.

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what did he mean by this?
no really do you mean spots where the sentry is hard to destroy? in that case get gud

To be fair the other route takes you right infront of a resupply room as well

On the original version for the orange box the engie could clip through the stairway house to the right of spawn, then build up on top of said house, and use that point to travel many places on the map where other classes couldn't hit him but his sentries could shoot others

don't fall off the bridge then dumbass
What an absolute travesty.
Use rolled grenades dumbass. That's the whole fucking reason the grenade launcher projectiles roll around before exploding unlike the soldier's rockets and the map is balanced around that.

Seriously if you want to play the actual objective unless you're like a sixes retard, twofort is the easiest map to push through

2fort isa great map, as long as you aren't a retard who plays it on servers that aren't balanced for it. Even if you have the game designed 12/12 server, adding instant respawns makes that shit impossible.I like 2fort because it's like a game of football, scoring one point doens't change the game for the other team, they just learn what they have to not fuck up anymore. As long as the game actually fucing ends at 3 or 5 captures the game is a lot of fun. When people use it as an excuse to grind infinitely against a wall to get kill it's dull as fuck.
What the fuck?

Hey don't be too mean, some of them might not even be aware you can surf on the sides of the sewer and that it's slightly faster than going through the base.

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I thought it was too obvious, so I didn't bother explaining it.

Another fun way to play 2fort is to go no cloak spy-engi, sneak all the way to the enemy intel and build a level 3 everything. You can usually get a good 2 caps in before they notice.

I feel the same way you do, except about TF2 itself.

AT this point, I doubt anybody gives a shit what TF2 was designed for. Everybody just plays team deathmatch with silly loadouts and sillier characters. At this point, it has passed into the realms of history as a FPS for casuals with a slight competitive side.

Hat economy. You can make actual money from selling hats. That's the main reason this shit heap of a game is relevant.

fucking pøttery.jpg

teufort has always been a shit map, its a guilty pleasure to play a map that is so basic, simple and small that you can memorize every single inch of it.

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If it's considered a shitshow then was it the map that always had packed servers you could never get into? Annoying as fuck because I just like to play different maps every now and then but 2Fort would always be full servers or empty servers.

I enjoyed Arena when I played the game if only for the spectacle of watching a Scout somehow defeat a Heavy with a butt-buddy Medic and 2 Pyros

nobody who actually plays tf2 likes 2fort.
its like the people who only play dust2 on 24man cs servers

got a link?

Why the fuck is there so much Pyro inflation?
I don't get it.

THIS
That map was way worse than 2fort

2fort has always been known to be a bad map, it's just a popular one. The only actually good non-custom ctf map in TF2 is Doublecross but Well is fun too.

It's only really one change away from perfection. Someone made a custom map like this but they fucked it up by omitting the drop from the balcony and so still making the central room necessary for any movement.

I always saw 2fort as the designated shitting map where you mainly zone out and score kills. Both teams either didn't put in enough effort to end the matches outright or one team rushed and ended the match as soon as it started. Occasionally you got good teams on both sides and that is when you saw the War is Hell(tm) experience first-hand.

It was intense as hell and some of my more memorable battles took place in 2fort.

no

There's a fixed version where the vents are two new paths. The map itself is the same but the routes two and from intel are changed and allow for more flexibility in movement

All maps are just collections of cubes, the problem with turbine is that it feels very much like one rather than an actual map because of poor interconnection between the rooms: this can largely be traced back to the central room and its lack of (spread out) entrances. The central room, the vents and the design of the intel room also favour certain classes and that adds to the issues with the map.
Adding alternate routes fixes this: what probably isn't clear on that image is that the new side corridors should be much wider than the vents behind the balconies (think at least as wide as the corridor leading from spawn). The one-way drop from the balcony both keeps in with the design of the rest of the map and prevents the addition making uncoordinated attacks overpowered. Turning the alcove entrance into a door rather than a clear corridor prevents spies from walking through it while cloaked without either timing it properly or giving themselves away. I've put some thought into this and it certainly wouldn't make the map any worse, the only thing that might be an issue is how it works with non-vanilla weapons.

Got a video or picture of it? I've seen a few of the attempts to fix turbine over the years and they usually make pretty major mistakes, for example fixing it with vents would likely favour direct combat classes (particularly the vents in turbine since they're one-player wide) that's just an assumption I'm making without having seen it of course.

It never was that good. Not even the most diehard TF2 vets will defend its playability. What it was though was the perfect introduction to the base game, both in aesthetics, humor (the fucking cord that plugs into two opposite walls and the cameras that stare into nothing), color balance and player roles (Engineers and Snipers had their designated shitting streets to learn their basic stuff, the bridge's ceiling is just high enough that Scouts, Soldiers and Demomen can learn their movement tech from there, Spies and Pyros can learn flanking maneuvers using the sewers, Medics get to stick close to their patients in most of the map).
The only people you'll ever see defend the map on a personal level are consolefags who got stuck, for better or worse, to a very early version of the game and only had this and a handful of other maps to choose from. I heard that there's still xbox360 players and miniature active communities.

There's plenty of modded 2fort maps that add various enhancements, among which: stairs to get back up from the sewers onto the battlements, alternate routes to the intelligence room (so that turtling around the flag isn't as viable), broader hallways with a higher ceiling on the top floor and more evenly distributed health packs (iirc there used to be a much more balanced map where a small health pack was located on top of the bridge so that if a Sniper didn't OHKO you, you could still bounce back.

Ever been to a 24/7 instarespawn server? There's humanoids who seem to like that and only that.

The worst map is by far Watchtower. Who in their right mind thought that people wanted to be dropped into a circle in a fucking death match, who the fuck thought that a precariously balanced log constitutes a way to rise up a control point, who in their right mind thought that it was acceptable to make the capture zone a choke within a choke, so that is impossible for the defenders to hold off explosives and for the attackers to surpass a nest

It's the "unidentified gender" which translates to "das a grill" in the autists' minds and because of the skin-tight leather suit.

There are also fucking handbags covered in flowers and shit in Pyro's locker.

You can check ingame for yourself if you like (and while you can maybe write it off with 'that nigger crazy' these have been around for a lot longer than valve making that an explicit character trait).

Finally someone who understands. 2fort has excellent design philosphy and is a ton of fun when playing with a coordinated team. It was my favorite map to play as spy since the ammo placement seemed to favor him and the split up layout of the map gave you a lot of opportunities to catch people alone or fuck with small groups. 2fort allows for the craziest shenanigans possible.
I think people complain because when both teams are just trickling in one at a time the map gets really boring as no one can solo an engy nest and it basically becomes dm while engies do nothing.

since there is practically no character background for pyro, any head cannon can be applied

although chances are there's going to be some character development to pyro, since the addition of the hot hand melee weapon reveals there to be a ring underneath one of the gloved fingers, this is still rather ambiguous since it could mean pyro had a wife, is a wife, or is a pimp

Agreed. People just haven't experienced how crazy the battles could get when both teams started butting heads. Claustrophobic in-door areas also meant explosions becoming even more deadly, there were lots of places to set up ambushes to stop attacking groups, and spies could wreak havoc during the strongest point during the enemy's push. Every point needed to be earned with blood. I guess it can feel dull now due to the common players being lobotomized.

Well is much better as a long-term stalemate/bloodbath map though.

That was a goddamn pre-socjus joke at how men do unmanly things and use pink colored shit from time to time, and about the supposedly mysterious nature of his mask, raising question like, if he pulled that off would it die or would it be extremely painful?

This too. I also fondly remember it as being the one place where everyone would flock to to test out the new achievements or features.

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How about you post something that tells us what your fucking video is about, you chode?

Some kraut who joined TF2 in 2014 acting like 2fort is the best map because it's symmetric

2fort is hot garbage and anyone saying otherwise in this thread is wrong

technically, 2fort isn't symetrical

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The boxes on the red side? I believe right out of the sewer and the barrels on the blu side, one side is considerably easier to hide in, or hide buildings in compared to the other and provides better cover, not symmetrical

also, and I'm not totally sure, but in the little hall in each base before the spiral down into the fort the spacing against the wall is different because there's different props in slightly different positions on each side

Classic? You haven't got stuck on 2Fort match for FOUR HOURS because the dingbats on each side are too busy killing each other to even make a play to the Objective.

It was a much more batshit map when grenades were a thing.

Anyone here watch STAR or Jerma? They've got some pretty good and entertaining vids of modern TF2. Almost makes me wanna play, but I'd actually rather watch them. They seem to have waaaay too much fun.

Didn't STAR throw a giant tantrum when people didn't like his shitty overwatch vids and he hid away on his second channel forever?

They both have switched to being streaming niggers.

Yeah, but Jerma didn't become a bitter asshole in the end. I mean other than when you call him short.

nah

the problem is that 2fort is shorter than the previous iterations from quake and tfc, and the stair room that connect spawn to intel is the biggest choke from the map thanks to engineers

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Forest for the trees, user

ftfy

I read it from fuckyeahtf2 blog, run by canadians

Assburgers

The Tim & Eric of tf2, Jerma is entertaining whilst STAR is busy dickriding Kikeplan.

Got any clip of that?

2fort was always a shit pub map. People only played it because it was a constant tug-of-war stalemate because engineers make the game impossible to end. Not too different from cp_orange which was another unwinnable map because the last control point is ontop of the enemy spawn in a wide open location with no cover where they can shoot you while healing from the supply locker.

2fort is the best map BECAUSE it's a constant stalemate. It's the ultimate camping map. Camping is comfy and is what made TF2 so good originally. It allowed for a social space to develop. That's why so many people play 2fort, because a lot of people just want a casual slow map where they can sit down and stand guard. Part of the reason other class based shooters like Overwatch is so shit is because of a lack of social spaces, mostly because these games run at ADHD-levels of speed and you have to constantly be moving. Torbs Sentry guns are made of paper for example, because you're not meant to camp with him

How do you know if they're underage?

They stopped making TF2 videos since forever
Also
Absolute tryhard who only ever looked good on his own servers or pubstomping, a few of my Steam friends once banded up and went hunting for him and he was absolutely terrible, even if overhealed by preteen fans he can't do shit against anything but subpar players. Also, he fell for the 3DPD meme by being a beta faggot.
One of the only two-three comedy jewtubers I still follow, he's an absolute casual at every game but damn if he isn't at least having the time of his life making the commentaries. Also, despite being streamershit, his crew and wife make abridged videos of all his shit with only what''s worth seeing. It helps that he didn't fall for the overcuck meme and that his mongrel significant other doesn't meddle with his uploads except when having to pull a practical joke on him.

He's a compact streamer.

clip? No, he used to have a video where he whined about the people on his second channel but it isn't there anymore.

Jerma isn't married.

He does have a significant other though

jerma just stayed as he was, STAR went autistic blaming jerma and his fans for being toxic i rememebr seeing a stream where h autisticly reacted hwne a viewer asked a simple question about a overwatch character and got real smarty ass with him

Frags, concs and faster movement. A map like 2fort was viable because chokepoints were harder to hold and fast players could outpace campers.

i always know ster was a faggot. Jerma's pretty cool guy, eh makes videos and doesn't afarid of anything

Are you drunk?

You forgot to mention shilly2142

2fort was meant to be impregnable. Only with team work can it be breached if it's well defended.

Fuck you

I guess the key difference is that ster_ took his jewtube money laundering scheme seriously whereas Jerma just rolls with the punches and does whatever he thinks is the funniest. Never forget that while the former abandoned his format for the more lucrative overwatch/skyrim streamshit, the latter does so much mixed media that he even spent 7K$ just to do a real life shitposting session for the fun of it.

my keyboard is realy bad if i press a button it might also press others

jerma did filmograpghy in college so it's a real passion for him to make video's and movies he just love being himself and i will never get sick of him. STAR was good just a nerdy guy playing a game casually, eventually fame got the better of him and because he used to be the nr.1 tf2 youtuber he feels valve and the community are his

Is it true the game runs like horseshit on any system? Because that's the final nail on the coffin

Yes

but don't worry, join us at TF2V instead 8ch.net/v/res/14244275.html

Jerma's pretty great

the reason 2fort was good in tfc was the movement abilities that don't even exist in tf2. just like well.

2fort is bad when both sides do nothing but defend as long as possible and you're the only person on the server that doesn't want a 3 hour match.

the new casual matchmaker is complete and utter dogshit and makes skial servers look amazing in comparison. most of the people playing are mechanically bad at FPS games, mostly because they're between 12 and 16 years old. then there is the whole cosmetic aspect of it.

I used to love playing tf2 but nowadays it's honestly more of a chore than anything. I'd rather just play painkiller or something by myself.

You have to go back.

That's what TF2Vintage is for. :^)

What's the alternative, have the underground route the only way to go lest you get reamed by snipers for daring to leave the base?

Nigger, you just described nearly every single source engine game outside of third party shit like titanfall. Valve and so many other devs that opted to use their shit engine were stuck in the mid-late 90s frame of mind with mapping, in the "Everything is cubes because geometry is hard and this is how we did it when a high end computer had 266MHz processors and 8MB of RAM" sense.

You are a faggot.

I don't think it's just passion and love, it's also about how he can take a joke at his own expenses and how he can make fun of anything without having to fear repercussions, whereas most of other jewtubers eventually either have to get serious to avoid being demonetized or go full cuck and political, regardless of ideology.

warm colors and desert maps are the most favorite maps by all people. if dust_2 was some european village instead and cold it wouldn't have been as popular.

2fort is fun but shit competitively, it's just for shitters to tdm each other without much hassle.

also don't know what the fuck you're talking about, everybody hates 2fort in the community

PLEB

It might have been changed since the last time I played 2fort but there was a very minor difference in the geometry between the red and blue sides. If you built a dispenser in the doorway into the spiral staircase on the red side the top of the door frame as too low to be able to jump+crouch over it, but on the blue side you could. It meant you'd have to stop and destroy the dispenser immediately in front of the enemy spawn instead of just jumping over it if you wanted to go down that way.

that map is shit

Is CS_Office not the most popular hostage map by far? Because that's a snow map.

i don't know why, deserts are awful to look at

pretty sure cs_italy is more popular

Fine. I didn't research it I just remember office being played a shitton.

yeah, on shitty casual cs:s servers, but italy has always been the best hostage map by far

We are talking about popularity though, not balance or quality. It's literally a question of aesthetics and which ones more people are more naturally drawn to.

Literally have the god awful shittiest taste on the entire internet.

2fort is the worst valve map
upward is the best valve map

subhumans like desert, white boys like snow

simple, but nobody is going to play a map because it's snow and the other is desert which they don't like

you are a snow ape who lacks the intelligence that deserts also have snow.

this is an abomination and fatal to the eyes

have some more

its weird indeed, one would think if they had the condensation to form snow, it wouldn't be too dry to be a desert

on barnblitz you can see trees in the background, clearly they drove north

Never post this degenerate again.

But you must, eat and shit: tumblr, if you want your Super Mario incestual pornography and kinky Tiny Toons OCs.

Oh no he doesn't know how to script some autistic shit, it's the end of the world.

2fort is iconic, not good.

2fort is a map where you just have to figure things out and exploit whatever weakness the other team has. My favorite thing to do was go scout and just harass people and run around like a jackass and grab the intel when no one was looking.

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High grade, malignant autism (the kind that makes you commission pictures of your loadout character on deviantArt as opposed to the one that makes you shitpost creatively) and the fact they get approval by Valve and sponsors alike. TF2 is particularly egregious in that the game's balance is fixed at a high competitive level, which makes everything boring for the casuals, but all of its content is geared towards the casuals, which makes competitive unstable. IMO a competitive game needs to be broken in the same way a sport is, just because the competition is absolutely fair and the skill ceiling is high doesn't mean that playing online tourneys are worth it, like, after you've seen an airshot, you've seen them all, no matter how crazy precise they need to be. Plus the whole "hurr durr we gotta ban X weapon and limit Y's class because otherwise players have to go through an arms' race to see who outYs who" is just retarded, adding arbitrary rules instead of having the devs modify the data is just wrong.

Perfect way to waste money, holy shit.