Just how much damage did this piece of shit wreak upon the medium?

you won't find any other studio taking risks, story-wise, the way these game had. Silent Hill 2 is still the zenith, though.

...

Really nice desert porn though, I wish more games paid so much loving attention to sand.

I hate games that try to guilt-trip the player for shit.

Same

...

None really
It was a commercial failure and killed its developers
I would say it killed Spec Ops as a franchise but that wouldn't be true considering it was dead long before this turd.

Funny how modern games can't do mirrors when even Duke Nukem 3D and shitty maps for that one Voyager game do it just fine.

There really isn't much.

journey really loved its sand but it wasn't a great game and Uncharted 3 only had nice sand because it was a glorified tech demo.

Mirrors are really fucking hard to do unless you fake them with identical rooms hidden behind the mirror. Most older games used this hack.

I remember a lot of dick sucking this game and a backlash because of it, since it berated the player in a linear game for playing the game. But other than that I don't see any games that were influenced by it.

if you aren't going to bother to do the mirrors properly then why have them in the game at all?

Because it's fucking weird when there's a bathroom and no mirror. Granted it's also fucking weird when said mirror doesn't work.

Is there really any reason why they can't use the same trick anymore? Really, most mirrors that people care about are going to be stationary anyway. It's not like they couldn't turn down the quantity of muh screen space reflections and avoid putting mirrors near a wet sidewalk.

Apparently vidya mirrors are just laptop screens showing a live feed of a webcam if you take game logic at its face value.

Honestly I would prefer having a very low resolution mirror than no mirror at all.

Yeah, as long it does what it's supposed to its fine. You don't have to simulate the trajectory of every photon to make a convincing mirror.

woah no shit
did you also know that guns in games don't actually fire a bullet and check for collision with a 3d object, they just hitscan the effect?

I played a demo, dismissed it as shit, read dick sucking comments about how mind blowing it is. Gave it a chance. Finished it. It was shit the whole time.

It being linear ruined it. To blow my mind that stuff should have been optional like what kojima wanted to do in mgsv with the kids and obstructed vision. Instead it was just a linear story with a pretentious as fuck "twist".

Not max payne do any other games render projectiles?

Such a deep game.

Wrong, they're still making games

Then make them
If games can do reflections correctly then they can do this.
As a matter of fact they've done it before countless times.
Theres no fucking excuse

But dude, you can choose to avoid killing them. It's called closing the game :^)

a meh fps with a pretentious "war is hell" story that sold poorly despite journos shilling it cus "muh artsy vidya" and with a shoe horned multyplayer mode cus cod was the trendy band waggon to jump into

i doubt it caused any harm to anything but the publishers bottom line

...

WAB?
As much as i tend to disagree with him, his opinions seem genuine. His taste is all over the place though. He hated witcher, totally agree. Loved spintires, agree. Loved wolfenstein the cuckening, disagree. Hates any souls game bc controller, disagree. Can someone explain to him theyre about movement more than striking and wasd is like using a fuckin D-pad to move around in mario64. I agree with port quality tho.

TotalBiscuit the guy who flipped his shit after being asked if traps are gay they totally are though
He had alright stuff. But he spilt his spaghetti because he didn't get to tell America how to run itself. He told his audience to fuck off I obliged.

Mr open relationship literal cuckold? He was never tolerable.

Never claimed my taste wasn't total dogshit. Wasn't the cuck that fat fuck Jim "900 Pound" Sterling though?

It emboldened the hipster pieces of shit that wants more "thought-provoking games" without the gameplay and replay value, more cinematic trash and agenda pushing bullshit to make their jobs as "Video Game Journalists" treated seriously and with more respect. For example, this betacuck Brendan Keogh wrote a fucking book before the game came out, he's currently writing about how Wolfensteinberg 2 New Commies is a "thought-provoking game about Fascism and how to resist it"

And here we got a retard who doesn't know what IDs are, with all his posts defending a piece of shit game for no reason but to defend his purchase.

Fucking amazing. Cuckchan really is here. And of all the shitty games he could defend with samefaggotry, it's this one. It's like a really autistic version of poetry.

Hooktube link because The Know is fucking cancer, but here's a quick interview of how pretentious the devs were, "If you were a good person, you shouldn't have played this game", that's right, the developers want to make you feel bad for being a cuck buying their game.

Fucking prey 2016 couldn't even do mirrors and a main fucking plot point of the god damn game was windows into other rooms that weren't really fucking there.
WHY THE SHIT ARE MODERN GAMES NOT EVEN TRYING TO DO MIRRORS?

Because they're made by retards who can't think of anything other than 1:1 recreation of the real world, so mirrors MUST be implemented as a reflective surface instead of some hack that works.

God, what fucking cancer. A perfect microcosm of everything wrong with modern designers. You have the fucking gall to call into question the moral fiber of someone who paid for your shitty video game? As if my actions in a fucking video game are a perfect reflection of how I act in real life. Just more proof that the modern SJW game developers are the same thing as Jack Thompson.

100% this.

Just wait, they'll be back to sucking Hiroshima's cock any time now. The ones smart enough to not do that might stand a chance here long term though.

If that were the case we would have more accurate ballistic mechanics too
The real reason is that mirrors aren't supported by default in whatever Unreal engine based shit they are using and they can't spend the time to code those in because they don't have the talent as all the real coders were replaced by H1B code monkeys long ago.

the original metal gear solid did worse

I'd like to pretend that isn't 100% true.

MGS1 sold 5.51 million

you could say Far Cry 4

My guess is that hiding mirror rooms is a pain in the ass to design buildings around and just making the surface a portal to an isolated mirror room outside the map requires portal support in the engine. There's also the problem of perfectly duplicating any items or enemies the player drags into the room.
Reflections, on the other hand, are possible through shit like reflection probes, screen space reflection, and certain global illumination algorithms. Problem is that none of these work well for mirrors since reflection probes are prebaked to avoid a massive CPU performance hit, screen space reflections only reflect stuff visible on-screen and thus won't reflect stuff behind you, and global illumination reflections are very blurry.
Hope that helps a little.

my dheart

She's pretty good if you don't mind lego everywhere.

I don't know shit about engines, but is this really an issue? Still sounds like laziness devs get away because casuals don't care

I'm not sure if it did any major damage since normalfag CoDbros (the very demographic this game tried to shame) mostly ignored this in favor of actual war shootans like MW3 or Battlegay 3. Hell if the main objective of this game was to shame CoDfags into feeling bad for liking war shooters, then I'd wager it failed miserably. CoD-types have the attention span of a cocker spaniel and get bored if they don't shoot something. (For reference, in every CoD game that allows map voting, the tiny maps are always the first ones to be instavoted by the whole lobby) I doubt any of them were particularly "moved" by the MUH WILLYPETE scene since I'd imagine most just skip the cinematics and skip to the gameplay so that they can collect their gamerscore quicker. Aside from being jerked off to by homos who have never read Heart of Darkness or even seen Apocalypse Now, it didn't really hurt he industry in any meaningful way.

The only damage it did that I do personally care about, was that it started a new trend of "subversive games" that think they can be "deep" by lecturing me for playing it. Games that think that they wield a massive fucking dick for saying "you are bad person for playing game. You killed a virtual pixel person you should be ashamed >:(" can go fuck themselves off the top of Trump Tower. Any game that tries to lecture me for playing it gets the old "Alt-F4 + Steam Refund" combo. Fuck any game that pulls this bullshit, and fuck any fucking talentless hack developer who thinks they are videogame Shakespeare for sticking this 6th grade tripe into their game.

Modern devs can't code for shit.

more like all the talented coders moved to better paying jobs after getting replaced and the only ones left are the ones with passion who don't work on trendchasing shovelware to begin with.

I had fun with it. Everyone went on and on about how the gameplay was shit but I found it better than most games in the genre outside of Vanquish and Max Payne. The level design was better than expected, they managed to keep things fresh and interesting despite being stuck in a single desert location the entire game, it also required lots of vertical aiming, which you don't see in console shooters that much/at all. Squad command system was nice, I wish you could select them individually and give them movement orders instead of just attack, but the game was built around a controller unfortunately.

Is global illumination what Half Life 2 uses for the security camera feed in the prison section? Because that does kinda describes the image quality of those feeds. Honestly a blurry mirror is better than a mirror that doesn't reflect at all.

There was some really nice set pieces and the concept was extremely fresh at the time. The message was somewhat that the best possible outcome would be not to play, but, honestly, you're just stunting yourself and the developers vision in this regard if you believe that simply because it's meant to be experienced in full I would say. The game is less linear than that of the games it was emulating and shaming, but the level design was indeed fairly linear.

It was nice in that it wasn't 'just another action shooty game' but was actually quite thought provoking as well thanks to the depths it went to bring the characters to life, and even nameless soldiers had some nice lines the gum sharing scene for example. But yea, anyone who bought this game simply to turn it off before they've finished it is just not getting the bang out of their buck.

Talent is word for cucks. Hard work is where it's at, you need to work that shit out out if you want to be good.

Look anyway you fucking cut it the skilled/good/talented/youknowwhathemeansyoupedanticfuck coders aren't going to be working at game studios. At best any coders worth a damn are going to be on the engine creation side since they have to make the damn things in the first place.

The game's meta message would have been a lot better if it was free.

Dunno man, I just enjoyed killing everyone.

ye this shit's annoying

Wait that sounds wrong

1. Serious answer: The Line wasn't as successful as hoped, so neither the good or the bad of it had much consequence.
2. Meta answer: this place is populated by contrarian cuckchanners who shit on everything good to justify the fact that all they play is normalfag crap but ironically

ArmA.
RO2 does some strange maths with it's hitscan to simulate actual bullets.

Not really if you just hated every character in the game.

And it was pretty good

>>>/reddit/ This is your home now.

The big problem is that it overshadowed games that explore the medium of videogames far better like Pathologic because it deconstructed/shat on the sort of game that was popular at the time, namely big military action games in the same vein as CoD (which every non-normie had a hateboner for). It's literally babby's first deconstructive metanarrative.

What medium? Was there anything left?
It's like saying a single speck of sand is to blame for the desert around it being an arid hellhole.

None you fag.

Far less than this.

Largely this.

Quake, Doom, Duke Nukem, Wolfenstein 3D, Unreal Tournament, Aliens vs Predator culminating with Half-Life. Fast-paced arena shooters, but also had tactical military games like Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon and even RPGs like Deus Ex and System Shock.

Cawwadoody, Medal of Honor, and tons of fucking WW2 games.

Halo, CoD, GOW, etc. "cinematic" linear brownbloom corridor shooters. I hate to say this but GoldenEye was the start of this trend.

2008~2012 was the dark ages of the FPS genre. Hope you enjoy looking down ironsights in Generic Military Shooter #3562197

The story is nonsense and even though it's meant to critique other military shooters it's actually less realistic than them. It gets praise because people need an "art game" to rally behind and show the grownups that video games are serious too.

I don't know how the Duke3D engine did it, but it didn't require building an identical room. It only required building an empty space behind the mirror that, IIRC, was the same size as the area it's mirroring.

...

it gave the "look games can be serious like movies, music and art crowd" purpose to exist
but in reality this is destroying the creativity of the medium by making it to conform to standards that it was supposed to surpass
games by their very designs can do so much more and not be bogged by down this, interactivity is supposed to be utilized as much as possible
this entertainment also has much higher potential of making lore thats beyond whats possible in the real world

look we can do so much more in the gaming world,
lets take those movie, music, art standards and build on top of it, instead of letting that limit us

In all likelihood it didn't even need an empty space, just have the mirror be a transition to a flipped version of the room.

Apparently Duke 3D actually does them properly. That game also has mirrors reflecting shrink ray blasts and getting shattered by thrown pipe bombs. In nineteen-ninety-fucking-six.

Are you gonna post the same thing in every thread now?

I looked into this, and it turns out creating a large empty space used to be needed but in later versions of the engine just a small one was enough.

infosuite.duke4.net/index.php?page=ae_walls_b2

I'm guessing the original implementation temporarily had the viewpoint changed to the opposite relative position for queuing the drawing and still needed to be inside a valid sector. So you required a space big enough that any position where you could view the mirror existing on the other side as being a valid place for a camera to exist.

Interesting. Come to think of it Duke 3D's security screens also continue to display the last view when you exit them, properly. That game was black magic.

Oh and are you the one comparing it to Lovecraft? I meant to screencap that. It really is an interesting game.

No, that wasn't me.

That's not what hair looks like when you come out of a shower.

Many modern engines don't come with portal support because they're usually integrated as part of a culling system and most engines these days don't use portal-based culling. Implementing portals just for a couple mirrors is a huge pain in the ass.

You're forgetting that Duke Nukem 3D also had very simple geometry compared to modern games. Raycasts are really fucking expensive and part of why Unity games run like shit is hipstershits abusing the shit out of them, so as polycount goes up more raycasts = more pain.

You're forgetting that modern games run on exponentially more powerful systems than duke nukem did.

Yeah but this was also around the time when the Pentium II was hot shit. Like Doom, it got a lot of mileage out of the hardware of the day and was a technical marvel.

Isn't it possible for mirrors to be actually screens with cameras behind them which display what the camera sees depending on your position but mirrored? It's not like we don't have working camera feeds in games either.

Raytracing is still expensive as fuck, you stupid nigger. Retards like you are the reason why modern video games run like shit, except even most Unityfags aren't retarded enough to make raytraced games.

That's possible, but unless you used a fuckhuge texture your mirror would look really blurry.

DN3D pushed the boundaries while running acceptably on the hardware of the day because it was written by people who care. People throwing stuff together in an off-the-shelf game engine don't have the same capacity to do things correctly, or ability if it's a closed-source engine. Also what about the Quake 3 engine. That also had reflective surfaces, and the teleporters that were like portals. Unreal Engine has those sorts of things as well, and there was that one level in UT99 that had you fall down to a death trap that was above you.

Correct. Even if you use the room trick, mirrors are still really hard to do in video games and unless you're a top-tier programmer you're probably best off just avoiding mirrors because they're a massive timesink and will likely kill your performance if you aren't extremely careful.

Great dubs thread, courtesy of >>>/cuckchan/

It's your fault that Raskolnikov murdered the old landlady because you flipped the pages.
Walker had a choice as a character, in fact, he had orders he ignored in his pursuit of glory.

most game engines aren't even optimized to use all of the processing power available to them. Your low standards are what keeping them stagnant because you will keep eating bullshit thrown towards you by hacks.

...

While they're still great games, Quake and Half-Life probably did more damage to FPS genre.

Can't have anything that's not a 2d shooter in disguise, aka Doom clone.

Half Life really is mediocre as shit, and with all signs pointing to the series NEVER EVER being completed, the mysterious stuff like G-man is really just lazy writing. I cared long enough to play the games to completion, but never cared to go back for more. I'll play 3 if it happens, but it won't.

After seeing Yandev freak out here I'm convinced some people are just not suited for imageboards and should never have come in the first place. They're thin skinned faggots and its the same mentality that causes people to think they've "matured" past image boards to go to places like reddit. In reality they just got btfo so hard that their delicate egos couldn't handle it and they left in a huff.

this is, of course, the correct answer

you're full of shit, 99% of mirrors are in bathrooms, which are small, enclosed rooms that have no enemies. the performance hit in such an area would be unnoticed.

Someday, people will realize the true potential of videogames.

I wonder what it'll take for the merchants to go away.

total war

There are a lot of people like that, difference is that you can get away with being a complete autist for far longer as anonymous.

It didn't cause any damage. All it did was expose the damage done by Call of Duty and games that copied it.

Don't blame the messenger.

FUCKIN' STAY DOWN

Reminder

Wait, when did the Kilrathi join Starfleet? Was that what pissed off Soran and made him start blowing up suns in trying to get back to the ribbon, so that he could live in a perfect world where furball scum wasn't accepted into the federation?

plenty, from what I recall right now FEAR and Borderlands

This tbh it was a pretty hamfisted Deliverymuh wily pete but the message rang true.

The real 4chan experience.

Not a Kilrathi m8.
She's a Caitian, not to be confused with the Kzinti yes those Kzinti, Larry Niven wrote an episode or two of the animated series. i need to actually read Ringworld some day

I think Fallout 3 and New Vegas do it, that and Halo I believe.

Brainlets.

Wouldn't someone outside of this board actually have to remember it for it to have any sort of impact?

Intruder does it really well, especially since it's a Unity game. Too bad it's dead.

If it was a deconstruction of the war hero archetype I would be okay with it. But it seems that the devs actually intended to scold the player for this he did in a virtual environment with no agency to actually make a decision of whether the player wants to do it or not. Whatever deepness they tried to push with the game falls flat if you leave no decision to the player. Compare that to many other games that alter the ending or the way events play out depending on what you do or don't do.

I would not place the blame on that game for starting the cinematic experience meme, though. I would agree with
and also check those dubs while I'm at it.

With that aside, I liked what they did with the environment and the OST was pretty good.

NEVER EVER

No.
Absolutely not, no.
This is not what the game does. That Holla Forums gets so caught up on it says that the people here either mostly just read it, or got anally caught up over a misread.

If the game is about guilt-tripping you via shitting on the player surrogate (Walker), why does the dev surrogate (Konrad) get twice as much shit? Why does Walker constantly repeat "You gave us no choice" when that is so likely also your frustration as a player?
With that in mind, why can you make so many choices in the end, even in the epilogue?
Why are its moment of choices some of the better examples you can find in a shooter?

Anyone who tells you the game is about guilt-tripping the player is full of shit.
Spec Ops is a 5.5/10 shooter mechanically with an 8/10 narrative. It's not a guilt trip telling the player they suck, it's a condemnation of linear game design where the narrative fails to substantiate. A bigger problem at the time of its release than now, but it made its point powerfully then.

Nice damage control for a paid shill. You were obviously worth the money unlike the other faggot.

Thank you for injecting some sense into this thread full of people who either didn't play the game, or lack the ability to dissociate themselves from the character they play as.

You are outright given a choice at the very end to either accept Konrad's rhetoric that you are a bad person for following through on forced choices, or reject it by shooting the guy who's done nothing but ride your ass for something you HAD to do in order to progress. Considering that blowing away the Colonel is the only option that actually leads to any further gameplay, it seems that this was the "correct" choice to make in the end; calling out the flaws of linearity in videogames that claim to have depth-of-choice.

Everyone brings up the point that the developers said that you "shouldn't have even played the game". This is straight misrepresentation, the lead writer merely confirmed that choosing to stop playing Spec Ops is a VALID ENDING, not THE ending. It was pretentious and probably a bit of self-fellating on his part, but a far cry from the idea that the developers think you're a bad person for even buying the game.

this game was a pretty sub-par TPS the only thing that made it at all noteworthy was the narrative

I never felt like the game was shitting on me for doing things in order to progress, I don't understand where people are getting that from. There were actually quite a few points where you could actually make meaningful choices. My favorite being the one in the epilogue where you can go with the soldiers that pick you up at the end or fucking lose it.

It wasn't subpar, it just didn't innovate at all in mechanics aside from the sand, the controls are very standard third person cover shooter stuff. The encounter design was well done thanks to good enemy placement with enough enemy types to keep it interesting which led to some good firefights. They actually put the effort in to give you tons of flanking opportunities instead of making it a mindless glorified corridor where you play whack a mole with guns while waiting for your health to regen, there was a lot of thought put into it. Still not as good as Vanquish of course but I highly highly doubt that game will ever be topped in that genre.

Unreal Engine 4 can't do proper reflections anymore?

Hello cuckchan!

surprisingly apt.

Did you just conveniently forget the loading screens?

It's supposed to condemn modern military shooters, which it fails at by having a nonsensical story and less realism than Modern Warfare.

It can. Modern hardware can't handle doubling the render load.

Lol

(checked)
It makes me wonder why the engine developers didn't bothered keeping this old rendering technique, since it worked well back then.

To be fair the original Prey did Portals before Portal, its a game which clearly already had the technology to do working mirrors from just re utilising what they did to make the portals work.

kek
And you're right. Honestly the whole "you can stop playing" read like a "sure, why not" given the phrasing. But he went on to write Battlefront 2, so I'm not married to defending him.
The epilogue is one of the big reasons why I say it's a choice about the game. The big refutation in the Walker-Konrad conflict is that if you, the player, had been given a choice by the game to do the right thing, you would have. I love that the epilogue then lets you do just that.

That's a strawman: I didn't say the game doesn't scold the player, I said it wasn't about guilt-tripping you. There is guilt-tripping, absolutely, and such comes from some of the game's best details like those loading screen shifts. As much as you may hate Walker, his struggle is your own, and you're made bear some blame for his actions.
But the guilt tripping isn't empty, it's meant to be part of the game's other big theme: PTSD. Violence scars everybody, including the aggressor, and many soldiers IRL bear a heavy sense of conflict from what they do, right or wrong. You're meant to

The part that confuses me the most about the game is that it blends the meta theme with the PTSD theme. By the story's narrative logic, Walker's wrong when he says he doesn't have a choice. But by the more important logic, that of the game, he's completely right. That's the frustration the game was looking to build by the time you reach the ending, and I'd say they did it very well.

which is why you can find games running on modern hardware with working mirrors right?

>I said it wasn't about guilt-tripping you
To clarify and repeat: I think the game's about both PTSD in the army and also a condemnation of excessively linear narratives. The parts guilt-tripping the player are important to that, but only a small part of the bigger picture

This piece of shit is why FPS campaigns these days are linear.

no, they have more in common from call of duty from 2003, half-life 2 is from 2004.

The main problem sterns from the whole "white phosphorus" scene, in which you have no choice, but to engage in it, you can't interrogate the guy, that was guarding the entrance instead of simply killing him(and had you done that, he would have told you that they weren't the enemy, and that there were civilians down there), you can't just run and gun through the whole camp(and no saying that there are too many enemies is bullshit, considering that by that point Walker and his gang have killed hundreds of enemy soldiers). You were never given a real choice, of using an alternative route, or trying to negotiate with the soldiers down there, no you HAD to use the white phosphorus and the game more or less insulted you the player for doing that, by showing you how awful you were for killing all those innocent people. Had you been given a real choice of peaceful negotiations or doing something else, even if it was hard to do/find or you needed a guide in order to do so, then yes, there would have been a strong feeling of guilt over killing the civilians, but like this, in a linear game, don't give a shit, did nothing wrong and in the end I "killed" Konrad and escaped the desert with the army, because I am not responsible for the things that a linear game made me do.

That's my point

Not much thankfully.

This fag is right, Uncharted in particular.

The Talos Principle has a working mirror.

You should, it's really good.

Which Ringworld/Known Space book should I start with anyway? Man-Kzin Wars sounds like something I'd enjoy reading the compilation volume has cat tiddies on the front cover for some reason though
also apparently primates eat a certain root in Ringworld and turn into a giant shriveled old man?

Resot of your post was solid lad 7/10

I'd start with Ringworld then finish the direct sequels before you jump into anything else. I'm sure you've heard of them by now but I'll throw a recommendation at The Culture series too.

Did the first 2 CoD games even make that big a splash? I thought it only really took off with MW/WaW.

CoD 1 was pretty big in its day, it was made by ex-MoH:AA devs and was in many ways a spiritual sequel. Multiplayer for the expansion is still live too with a few thousand fags.
2 was the first one to be a multiplat rather than consoles getting a cucked version and it was also very popular in its day.
4 is where normalfags got into it because the timing of its release was perfect.

And MW2 was where it went to shit

The Culture can be hit or miss, but the Player of Games, Use of Weapons and Hydrogen Sonata are pure gold.

Why don't you make another shit thread, Halo autist?

Shame he died really.

I'd say it started declining as early as 2, MW2 was just the point where it lost what remaining value it had.

I want consolefags to leave.

Reminder yandev fucked off of reddit too.

The irony is, we're the hand that feeds Yandev, not the other way around. Now only of the faggot could his head out of his ass.

Wew

>>>/reddit/
Holy shit you have low standards. Go play Vanquish you casual.

When did Konrad really die?
Who was the "higher power" Radioman answered to and why was Radioman such an asshole? Everything was his fault.

Ah yes, because games are just like books, where the story and narration matter first

[spoiler]well the whole game was a simulation{/spoiler] and perhaps it is real hard to simulate mirrors in the lore of that universe, just like real life

How embarrassing