Holla Forums here...

All the italians, irish, poles, etc that were immigrating to the US 150 years ago were not considered "white". That's because race is a fabrication based on arbitrary characteristics.

SJW's, and identity politics in the West in general, are a cancer because they are wildly intolerant of Western civilization and are constantly, provocatively calling for its obliteration. It's primarily fueled by minorities reacting to the feeling of being unmoored from their ethnic identities by blaming white people and their civilization. Why don't we just respect that people have a natural and reasonable desire to connect with their ethnic identities and work towards socialist policies from there?

Americans aren't part of europeans culture, they are part of colonial culture. Australians, canadians and americans all share the same culture with slight variations. All of their history is identical, killing the natives and having a majority "white" country, with the same language and english cultural influence. New zealanders probably too, but they have some more native influence. South africans have a different culture due to their dutch roots and heavy intermingling with the natives, and south americans/latinos have a common culture of heavy Spanish colonisation with heavy native influence.

The idea that there is such as thing as "western" culture is fucking ridiculous.

They may not know or care what their ethnicity is but that doesn't magically make things that are not ethnicities into ethnicities.

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Even conceding that this isn't mumbo jumbo, the problem with Holla Forums is that the solution you see to muh collapse of western civilization is to praise and shill the very people who have an interest in destroying it.

Because I don't care about laughable nonsense like "my" history and "my" identity.

In fact I'd go so far as to say that if you primarily identify as "white" the one denying your history and ethnic identity is YOU.

Why don't we unite all the people and create socialism and then have a discussion about ethnicity?

t. white man posting on a white website on white internet while clothed in white clothes enjoying white inventions, white healthcare, white law and white porn

Rightists in america are retarded idiots who believe in "white identity" and white nationalists in europe are 100% of the time people who browse too much anglo website and post propaganda aimed at their own country members, about their own country, in english.

Americans need to stay in america and rightards in europe are traitors who need to be shot so we can protect our actual cultural heritige and traditions from american capitalism which is pushing its horrific being into the world.

Honestly you're taking the low-hanging fruits without equal. I won't make a racial-socio-economic profile of you, even if I feel a bit tempted to do so. Please be proud of who you are and stop the hate, educate yourself.

Im a dutch man posting on an american website while clothed in chinese clothes enjoying a computer made in taiwan, while enjoying dutch healthcare and suffering under dutch laws.

Also I only watch japanese porn, western porn is fucking shit.

That isn't a replacement for ethnic identity, though.

Asserting that whites have no culture is ridiculous on its face and profoundly ignorant.

I agree with the idea that taking on community identities often leads to otherwise avoidable inter-group antagonism, but I think that we need to figure out a way to manage that antagonism, because the spiritual dislocation resulting from a rupture with one's ethnic identity is too high a price to pay for benefit of denying ethnic identity just to keep the peace.

Indeed, they weren't considered white, and now they are. Ethnic identities can change over time. (Please don't take that as an invitation to make silly arguments like race doesn't exist or Amerindians can be white.)

That colonial culture is separate from European culture is obvious. It's also obvious that the cultures are deeply related to each other to the point that it's reasonable to call them Western, and have that be meaningful.

I'm not pol but let me translate that for you:
white, white, white, under white contractors, under white contractors and companies, white and white.

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Im not leftypol but let me translate that into my own arbitrary groups to serve my own narrative
human, human, human, human, human, human and human

colonial countries don't have any culture, your only culture is the capitalist spectacle

european culture is nothing more than remnants of feudal superstitions and habits.

the only reason you need your "culture" and "sense of identity" is because you lack personal achievements and like to identify with other people based on some arbitrary similarities so you can take pride in their achievements.

A novel idea, the problem is the human element. I'm a realist and that's why I take human tribalist nature into account.

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you're a retard

You're not being denied anything. Stop with the victimization complex already.

What "European identity" are you talking about? You do realize nation-based identities are a very recent development in mankind's history, right?

Basically the only thing we tend to agree on around here is that identity politics are bunk. Identitarianism is incompatible with leftism.

Kill all humans seems to be the more sensible approach then

Okay but tribalism has been completely detached from "racial" elements for the majority of human existence.

Nice.

What do you refer to exactly as "tribalism"…?

You read a book, a history book. History shows us this tribalism, history doesn't show us this globalist side you imply.
huuman neytuur is just a spook guise!

I've read a lot more history than you have fascist filth

Human "nature" is nothing more than the conditioning you receive during childhood. There is no "tribalism" gene in your dna that controls your behavior and makes you socialize into arbitrary groupings

Ethnicities can change and shift over time. There now exists a new, composite ethnicity called White which exists in America and incorporates having ties from disparate European countries and living in the New World.

Obviously there's plenty of room to talk about how slavery is a bad thing without insisting that that has to be accompanied by obliteration of Western identity.

Elaborate?

Good for you, I applaud your intellectual individualism, but this is a thing that's important for most people and it's unjust to deny it to them.

From a European perspective, perhaps.

Where are we going to establish this state? The West? Unfortunately when we get all the different ethnicities in a room and start talking about how to establish a socialist state in the West, one of the first things they insist on is the obliteration of White identity.

I'm curious as to how you reconcile railing against European identity in the first paragraph and then being concerned with preserving our cultural heritage in the second paragraph.

Except this is not happening.

Ad hominem, bye bye now. I'm not a fascist nor filth. Seems I chose a poor combatant.

If it's a new identity then it doesn't have any history for you to be concerned about being denied.

Not that poster but I love you, you're the first poster I've ever seen who actually gets it (at least says it out loud) and I agree with you completely.

Very simple. I want to preserve actual cultural practises, not the capitalistic fake "European culture" which doesn't exist. There is no such thing as european culture, there are many cultures in europe. I want to preserve important historical practised because it would be a loss to the coming generations if these arts are lost to mass produced commodified culture.

Im curious how you don't seem to be able to wrap your head around the fact that I can oppose a fake cultural narrative that destroys actual culture.

ad hominem? you're the one claiming ridiculous things like "tribalism is human nature" without offering any proof whatsoever. I am telling you humans are conditioned during childhood, there is no such thing as "human nature", some behavioral gene that cannot change no matter what.

And yes, you clearly are fascist filth

Because all identity politics are cancer. No exceptions. That includes both SJWs and Nazis. Hell, the Nazis basically invented modern identity politics. I mean, where did they even come up with the autistic notion that all "white indo-european aryans" somehow share a collective identity and that a modern NEET has any claim to, say, the achievements of Isaac Newton? It's arbitrary. Human skin pigment is dependent on melanin genes and is correlated to sunlight exposure, nothing else. There's no reason whatsoever to expect it to correlate to, say, intelligence.

Purge your mind of it. There is no white race, just as there is no black race. Be proud of what you and your friends and family can accomplish, confront the real problems in life. No matter how much you try to immerse yourself in an imaginary past, it's not going to change anything. The only option is to look forward with socialism and science, not backwards with barbarism and tradition.

If you can't help it, at least keep it to yourself.

The history part I get, but identity poltics is dumb.

If this language wasn't as retarded as it is I would be able to use proper sentences and nouns.

Why do you think? They bitch about idpol and "leftists" but turn around and bitch about national identity holding back muh ideal drum circle society. Everyone here is as much a bluehair leftie as tumblr, envisioning the sum of human nation, history and culture as a lump of clay upon which they can impress their personal ideals. Such is the danger of accepting the Marxian religious canon of tabula rasa.

There is no such thing as "Western civilization". That Holla Forumstards can't associate anything with it besides cool Greek ruins and epic Renaissance paintings when probed is pretty telling.

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No matter how many times Professor Shekelberg tells you that in your sociology class it will never actually be true.

anything that doesn't exist but urges you to act against your own self-interest is a spook

define "western culture"

Then please do define "Western culture".

European Christendom.

so what exactly is western culture? christianity?

elaborate a bit, don't throw buzzwords

No such thing. Catholics, Anglicans and Protestants are nothing alike.

How are you being "denied" your "ethnic identity", exactly?

what if I am a social creature and not an autistic game theory computer
Gee, the history and culture of western nations and peoples?

I feel no need to deny the achievements or contributions of other ethnicities. Bravo to the various Asians responsible for producing your consumer goods for having the wherewithal to close the loop between you wanting those things and you having them in your hands. I don't think a recognition of the convenience of that process must take as a necessary corollary the destruction of European identity.

My ideas aren't less right just because you keep calling me a snowflake.

You can deconstruct any culture like that if you want. Chinese culture is just Confucianism, African culture is just primitive tribalism, whatever. The fact remains that it holds great significance for many, and that this is true across cultures. People like having an ethnic identity. And I could just as easily mock your yearning for leftist collectivism as demonstrative of the same desire to suppress awareness of my lack of personal achievement as you're accusing me of.

a) White / European identity is suppressed by the Establishment in the West. This is not debatable. b) Nation-based identities are really not that recent of a development. The Greeks thought of themselves as Hellenes. I know the "muh nationalism was just an idea the bourgeois came up with to utilize the proletariat to take power away from the aristocracy" argument, but I disagree with how that idea is commonly extended to try and make the point that collective ethnic identity was fringe and unknown before the 19th century. c) Not really.

What?

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Then something can still be against your own interest. You example, people could brainwash you into a cult and tell you to kill yourself for god. Then the idea of god would be a spook because it makes you kill yourself with no gain.

Any cultures under the umbrella of European Christendom are western. That's all it really used to be mean. European Christendom = Western Civilization

As Christianity became less and less important the term Western came to replace it.

Look we all know you've been brainwashed to be deracinated self hating cucks but west civ definitely exists, the idea that it doesn't is laughably pathetic.

you are social because that benefits your ego. everything you do is in your own self-interest

again, this is a vague nonsense statement. what do you define as west? how can history be culture? is a battle that happened in 1893 culture? how can history, the science of recording past events past, be culture?

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How the hell can you acknowledge this and still believe in the race spook? That's some serious doublethink, mate.

underrated post

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Sure.
Now I know Holla Forums isn't one person, but I think it's safe to say that a lot of people from the Holla Forums board(s) have endorsed, agreed with and/or voted for right wing politicians. I'm not gonna talk about the economic policies of such politicians because whether or not you think they're doing a good thing depends on your ideology. We talk about this shit a lot anyways, you can hang around here more if you're interested. Let's talk about what concerns you here and now: the decline of the West and irrelevant shiting. So, let's say, based on this concern, that many Holla Forums posters voted for Trump: he did promise that he would build a wall, ban muslims etc. Let's say he actually does it. What do you think is going to happen? Getting in the US gets harder, but it never will be impossible. If it's not impossible, that means that people will get in. It's just inevitable. So when this happens, here's the consequence: you have people in your country that are in illegally, don't know much about the country and are poor. What these people are going to want to do is get a job, any job, fast. Which means they're gonna be ready to accept a lower wage for their labor, because:
1. they're starving poor
2. they have no way to bargain.
What they essentially want to do is stay in a country long enough to become citizens, even if it means they have to work 12 hours a day to be able to live. Unfortunately, them accepting lower wages than your average US citizen is a bad thing, because it means an enterprise will always hire them over the US citizen: they are cheaper. Ultimately this will drive the cost of all labor down and the US citizen is going to have to work for half the money he would've gotten 10 years ago - all because someone was afraid of mexicans.
Trump is a billionaire and I assure you he didn't get to where he is without underpaid work. I know for a fact that he had immigrants work for him, because that's how capitalism works. He probably still has. Fuck, his daughter's fashion line is produced in China.
The right wing are exactly the ones that benefit from immigrants coming to your country in flocks and being ILLEGAL immigrants. Every vote for the right wing is a vote for disgruntled islam classcucks exploding themselves in some square.
Who does that? Also please define white identity.

Anything has potential to be against my own self interest. What if my car explodes, killing me instantly?
What? Like ancom?
what if my participation in the history and culture of my people (BRRT BRRT BRRT SPOOK ALERT) brings me more satisfaction than autistic game theory about self interest

So Holla Forums thinks Europe is a country with one unified culture that trascends time and space. Ok, it all makes sense now.

That's weird for a Nazi to say. Aren't you guys supposed to be anti-Christian pagans? Anyway, there is no such thing as a monolithic "Christendom" just like there is no such thing as eternal "Islam" — they are vague concepts that refer to wildly different social realities. Reminder that "Christians" spent the better part of the 16th century killing each other.

That's basically synonymous.

lolll

Ok let me explain what a spook is mate.

A spook is an idea you hold, that makes you act against your self interest. A car exploding or a school shooter isnt a spook. Spooks are things such as "Die for your nation because the nation needs you", instead of "Fight to protect the people you care about". Its not "anything that harms you", nor is it "anything metaphysical".

Why does conflicts within European Christendom imply that it doesn't exist as a unique culture?

And who said anything about being monolithic? A box of varying shades of blue umbrellas are very clearly distinct to a box of varying shades of orange umbrellas.

Christ you leftists are brain damaged.

That's the magic of nationhood!

Quick geography lesson:
A country is any tract of land. You can define whatever country you like. This is the imaginary borders lefties like to whine about.
A state is a government.
A nation is literally just a group of people who define themselves to be a nation.

because that's what capitalists push in order to divide the world proletariat

it's forced onto them as children, so when the time comes for them to die defending capitalist interests they are ready to sacrifice themselves for a vague notion of "nation" that is nothing more than the capitalist's ego superimposed onto yours and dominating it.

except that leftists do not arbitrary take pride in other people's achievements, they strive to create a society where everyone has a chance and drive to achieve great things

but what is european christendom? catholics? orthodox? protestants? those are all different branches of christianity with very different traditions and customs. Are african christians western then? Are european atheist not western? Are russians western?

so what you're saying is the one element that you consider culture is in fact gone now? so what ties "western culture" into one entity now? What are it's characteristics?

ye man sure. you still haven't provided me a specific set of characteristics that defy "western culture" today, all you're saying is "western culture is countries that were christian once", which covers about half the fucking globe. You can't even defy your own spooks, that's how retarded you are

So culture isn't culture if it's recorded in history? If someone designs a gothic church it's not culture if I refer to it as history and not as historical architecture?

You defining what my self-interests are is a spook.

Not him, but maybe it's something like

Didn't know Westerners were the ones coming up with gunpowder.

Please excuse my Christian friend. He hasn't sufficiently dejewed himself yet. Western culture is pagan heroic individualism, Greco-Roman philosophy, and Aristotelian categorical empiricism. All Aryan language and religion flows from Proto Indo European root.

We have the whole of antiquity to draw on for a shared culture. It just needs to be purged of the greated Jewish story ever told.

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I am not Christian. Never said I was.

So why did Francis I of France willingly collaborated with Ottoman Empire to suppress heretic Holy Roman Emperor in 16th century?

Shouldn't they 'Christians' collaborate to hunt down mud skins instead?

culture must have distinct characteristics, and those characteristics also must have historical roots. so an example of culture would be "x, which has been seen since y age". saying something vague like "history" means literally nothing

the church itself isn't culture, the feudal christian society model that it was designed under is what you consider culture

Oh wait… I got more…

Wait so is this the part where you actually recognize western culture exists as distinct entity and are asking why it allied with other distinct entities as real politik?

Hmm definitely a step up from saying it never existed in the first place.

Yes, but i want to belong somewhere, without personal achievements. Unconditional love!

Yes, things like history and culture do seem like nonsense to rabid tabula rasa cultists.
People that exist in a culture descended from those who experienced Hellenization and the Roman empire, but were not permanently brought into the fold of the muslim world. Yes, I know cucklord. There are no clearly defined borders for "western world" and it's a triggering soshul construct.

You belong to the proletariat

So people living on said piece of land democratically decide what 'nation' they want to be part of for entire time frame? History I've been reading told me of somewhat grimmer stories.

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I'm not that guy.
But a lot of our common culture is constructed around archetypes that don't reflect real traditions or practices performed by our ancestors. This culture is a part of nation building to fill the vacuum created by the end feudalism. It's nothing wrong in taking pleasure in this, but they are constructs, not unbroken links to our ancestors or something like that. And often these traditions are much younger than they pretend to be. They are tools of the state to nurture group mentality within it's borders.

Honestly, everyone just needs to read more. When I read Marx, I finally appreciated what alienation meant, and when I read Hitler, I realized that Jewish fun is real.

If you want to talk about spooks, talk about the spookiest sekrit club on Earth, Judaism, who have outposts in every country, have their own language, refuse to intermarry or integrate, and control almost everything important, but don't exist and have never done anything wrong.

the fact that you think you need to "achieve" in order to be accepted is a capitalist notion

but christian culture that followed pagan greece and rome had nothing to do with greek and roman culture, and was vehemently aggressive towards it. Greek pagans were persecuted in byzantium and many works of greek philosophy were destroyed and forever lost during that period. There is nothing connecting christian tradition to greek tradition

So you're basically identifying western culture with christianity? is that it? So france, where 40% of the population are atheists and some 25% are deists, is not western by your definition?

I just got to this thread so I have no idea who the fuck do you think I am but please do not deflect my original question.

If Christianity was the focal point that every 'westerners' identified with, how come they fought, declared war on each other in the name of 'God' (while in reality it was just convenient tool for economical/political adventure) and sometimes even allied non christians if strategical advantage called for it.

Wtf am I reading? A culture has to been thousands of years old to have legitimacy?

Buddy if you and your cuck lord anarchist friends decided to fuck off into the woods and form a culture around endless egalitarian orgies and worshipping an effigy of Bernie Sanders made out of a pile of cow shit nobody would deny "anarchist cucklord culture #485758" exists.

Have you ever read the book your id pol was based upon?

Things like traditional dress and festivals are very surface-level elements of the nation. Pic related.
A) total conjecture
B) if you're a communist you have no room to talk on the subject of social engineering.

I think he's broken

Christianity is but one feature of many, it does not imply a united monolith like you want it to nor does it have to, western Africa civilizations still existed as unique civilizations even if they sold their west Africans into slavery for guns and liquor when the white man came along, I'm sorry you're basically a dullard.

The Western Establishment wants to suppress Western identity so that it can be replaced with Global identity, so that they can create big superstates.

There's no reason the first must imply the second.

Sure, I can get on board with the idea that there lots of distinct European cultures which shouldn't be subsumed by a "European" identity foisted on the populace of Europe by capitalists. I think the EU is the institution doing that, trying to force a "European" identity on everyone in order to eradicate national cultures.

Ethnic identities are and will continue to be important to people regardless of how much you try to deconstruct it or frame it as evidence of some kind of deep-seated insecurity. Abolishing them by diktat in the interest of [insert ideology here] is unjust whether it's Mao doing it in the name of Communism or the EU doing it in the name of a common market.

I don't see how you could get the one and not the other. They're inseparable, as I'm thinking about it.

No, there was nothing wrong with the sentence, I was just pointing out that you identify yourself as a Dutch man and that that's evidence of some kind of identification with the Netherlands going on in your head.

Your ideas sound interesting but I'm not sure how to engage with them.

Oversimplifying

I think Stirner and other "the whole world can be reduced to this one crazy idea! Philosophers hate him!" ideologies are just people being threatened by complexity and wanting a broad brush to paint everything into comforting uniformity with

I could talk about common lines of thought and perspective running from Ancient Greece and Rome and how those combine with Christianity and the native customs of the nations of Europe to produce Western culture but you'd just try to deconstruct it and assert that it's all meaningless and that the real answer is something you've derived from rationalism but at the end of the day all the clever deconstruction in the world is not going to change the fact that you cannot deconstruct the desire for ethnic identity. Yes, all of human collective identity is silly and constructed, that doesn't mean it isn't real or that it can just be discarded.

so your saying culture doesn't united us all into a national safe space?
made me think

Christianity integrated Platonic philosophy very quickly and then Aristotelian philosophy later with Aquinas. All the "good stuff in Christianity" comes from Heathen expansion packs.

Christianity qua Christianity in the Bible is just Jews killing each other until the Final Boss Jew, the Jewiest Jew of all, Jesus Christ dies and you cry and feel bad forever.

yet he is right about everything he wrote

so christianity isn't western culture, but the platonic and aristotelian notions it nurtured are?

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False. Christian culture was closely entangled with Greco-roman philosophers and the like. For example Thomas Aquinas' original intention was to marry catholic Canon with the works of Plato. Throughout the middle ages classical education was a staple of western society.

That doesn't really exclude them from both being inherited into what is considered western culture. Explicitly I could say it was some Hegelian dialectic that wasn't fully resolved until the renaissance but I'm no cultural expert.

How so, exactly? Please enumerate instances of this trend.

You sound uncomfortable, friendo.

Yes, they are. What we understand today as "nationalism" is largely the result of late 19th-century developments.

Their understanding of the issue was that of lineage, not belonging. A tiny portion of them maybe believed they had a common ancestry — the educated higher class who at the very least could read or write — but certainly not "the Greeks" as a whole. The vast majority of people were not concerned with that supposed "national sentiment". Anyway, military loyalty to one's city-state meant that this common Hellenism was often disregarded anyway.

It's not just about that. Even after the French Revolution, there was no such thing as popular nationalism. You'd have to wait almost one additional century for that to happen. The conditions simply weren't there to allow for it to develop.

It was. The vast majority of people for the better part of human history did not identity as being part of a nation, let alone a race-based one.

… Care to elaborate?

What?

Listen bud I know you all consider culture irrelevant and the only thing important to you is that everyone in the word received three food rations and an apartment of their own in a commie block but to deny it's existence is another thing entirely, the very fact that languages such as French or English in of themselves is proof of western culture existing.

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It's just more appropriate than tankie or nat"""soc""" honestly

staple for whom? aristocrats? so you define culture as ruling class ideology? did the average peasant in the middle ages receive classical education?

And again i ask, do countries like france not count as western to you? do you have no other identifier for your culture other than "was christian at some point"?

I'm not saying culture isn't cool and all, it's just retarded and simple minded to base you political way of though off it

Yes. I'm glad Catholicism taught Aristotelian virtue ethics to millions of people, but if it could do it without Semitic Christianity, that would be far better still.

Stirner was a meme since 4/lit/. 9 out of 10 people citing him didn't read the book. It's almost always shitposting, which is kind of sad cause it's not like stirner is utter trash.

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55th dimensional chess right here.

.>>1419544
Because he was a cuck

but all modern religions have aristotelian virtue ethics integrated in them. again, how do you defy western culture today then?

I am not Holla Forums aligned in the slightest but saying that any group of people is without culture is fucking ridiculous kys

Cultures can have very negative qualities and be overwhelmingly negative, but saying that any group can be post-cultural is like saying any individual can be post-ideological.

I don't think it's inevitable that foreigners will make it into the United States. Proper enforcement of immigration laws isn't impossible. Sure maybe a handful make it in but stemming the human tide currently bearing down on the West is entirely feasible.

My concern with the decline of the West isn't really economic, as you seem to be framing it by discussing wages and jobs. Sure, poor Browns drive down the cost of labor, but my concern is less about them taking muh jerbs (I'm a high-skilled professional in an urban area) and more about them displacing white culture and identity with their own ethnic identities.

You say that right-wingers are pro-illegal immigration, as if you're implying that left-wingers aren't. Isn't it the Democrats (and the Socalists in Europe) who are most obsessed with allowing in as many foreigners are possible under the guise of it being "humane" and "muh diversity is good"?

White identity = the common identity / set of cultural perspectives and traditions of European-Americans. Actively opposed by minorities who assert (correctly) that the majority culture (European-American) doesn't really represent them. So they want to tear it down, because it's oppressive to live in.

What?

I have to go do something. I'll be back.

By the amount of Jews killed ofc are you fucking retarded?

Unironically ya got me. Legitimately laff'd

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There are at least three people in this thread denying western culture exists in of itself, it doesn't really matter, leftism is rife with deconstruction which just so happens to always target European cultures while upholding non European ones as legitimate. For whatever reason.

but culture is ideology mate, that's what im trying to get these 2 retards to see. and ideology is tied to the economical relations between classes and nationalist ideology is just a spook the bourg serve to divide the proletariat. they feel such a strong need for their "culture", while they cant even define what their culture even is. all i've gotten so far was "we were christian as some point", they cannot offer a decent criteria as to what characterizes western culture today

took you 5 posts to go full retard, good job. back to your echo chamber >>>Holla Forums

Yea fucking kill yourself

that's simply not true. you just have to understand "culture" is an ideology pushed onto you that serves the ruling class, and nothing more. you shouldn't feel obligated to any "greater power" that doesn't serve your self interest simply because of some arbitrary sense of duty you feel.

and no real leftist will even defend any non-leftist ideology. your illiteracy shows, since you cant differentiate liberals from leftists

I'm not going to lie and say the upper class weren't cultural leaders on higher elements of culture like art appreciation, beauty, philosophy, etc. The fact is before industrialization only about 10% of the population had careers outside of subsistence farming.

However even the peasantry could engage in concepts of self, justice, death, family life etc

figured as much

I don't know of any religion that explicitly teaches Aristotle except the Catholics.

so you realize it's logical that the culture created served to perpetuate their self interest right?

My culture and language is distinct and predates the concepts of a bourgeoisie by thousands of years. I'm sorry the capitalist class is your equivalent of the Jews. For all your supposed literacy maybe you should stop reading spark notes of Marx and Lenin and realize I play my great grandfather's accordion and drink home made wine completely irrespective of the existence of an ownership class in the capital city sitting on a ceo board.

Americans need to be hanged regardless of their identity.

I will neither confirm nor deny; I will rather ask how this is material to the question of the existence of the culture.

Not sure where you get that idea from, though it was most likely generated on the fly by your martyr complex. Nationalism is nationalism no matter what "nation" it claims as its own be it France, Japan or Algeria. In fact, non-European nationalisms — such as the sort that developed in former colonies — are pretty much patterned after European nationalisms.

I agree. Without them, the Fuhrer would have surely prevailed, and we would have colonies on Mars and Venus by now.

you'll fit in just fine here then!

this. white people in Australia are such a mashup of so many different cultures that any attempt to preserve 'white culture' literally results in fucking nothing. it doesn't exist.

I like the food, music, and leisurely activities I like, whatever arbitrary 'culture' they happen to be from. fuck off with this spooky crap and stop encouraging the NazBols.

I think he's referring to leftism as Holla Forums refers to "leftism", the sort of humanities grad champagne socialist who views what is right and good along the lines of oppressor/oppressed

people who read marx and stop at dialectical materialism and critical theory so they can attend more BLM marches

Best wishes. I guarantee no country in the world will ever get this unless it makes itself so much of a shithole people don't want to migrate from their own shithole to go there.

I know, that's why I didn't write another wall of text explaining how "american dream" culture is cancer.

Sure, but these two things are interconnected. Poor immigrants aren't going to stay poor immigrants forever, at some point they're gonna find some way to get papers (as they already do) and they won't stand for the shit they had to take in the past. That's why racial discourse is prominent these days: minorities discovered they have a voice. Unfortunately, it's a retarded voice because they refuse to admit class oppression; they don't unite and act as every white cis male is an oppressors, much to the advantage of porky and his cronies. Holla Forums is doing the same thing they are doing, the difference is only formal.

They'd change immigration laws so it wouldn't be illegal anymore, or at least they claim they would, so they're not for illegal immigration. By the by, it's not like they are to be trusted: european countries signed treaties with turkey and lybia to stop immigration, this was made by socdems.
They think that because they are retarded. Do you think Will Smith has more in common with Donald Trump or with the average ghetto illiterate kid? The problem is class.

What about Rennaissance you absolute plebian/nigger?

The rest of the thread is pure leftypol:
A bunch of americunts who read about some shitty philosophers,news, and mainstream history (mostly jews, so it's not about self-improvement of course.)

I'm French and fuck, most of you will be crying about "muh non existential white culture" even if I drag your fucking skinbutt in the Louvre.

Goddamit lefties, I know your self guilt and the "I want a little paradise without meanies" is you dream, but wake the fuck up, Marx ideology work on a small county with unlimited resource.

Please, if somebody need to respond me, at least make sense, or get in the chopper because you'll win a free helicopter ride.

Why don't you move to a Taliban village in Afghanistan and spend some years there. Mabye then you will become aware of cultural differences. Especially if you are female.

SHIIIITTT NIGRA LEFTCUCK BTFUGOED

Nederland beste land, fransen zuigen hard en jullie cultuur ook.

Is this a joke

You're french and you're shitposting on a vietnamese ASCII art board instead of protesting in the streets 24/7. Leave.

no you arent

go and surrender to Nazis and get cucked again you cheese eating gronk.

all christians follow a model of morals based on aristotelian ethics

You still haven't offered a definition of culture. The first real thing you seem to associate with culture that you mention so far is language. However, your notion that your language exists for "thousands of years" is simply retarded, since languages change rapidly along with ideology. The bourgeoisie emerged during the industrial revolution, i doubt your language hasn't changed even since then, let alone since 1000 years ago. Language is just another tool to express ideas, and it changes as the dominant ideology itself changes, it's not some dogmatic purity to be worshiped.>>1419714

Except that people's relation to the means of production is a material reality, not a made up conspiracy theory

And how is that in contrast with the fact that capitalist class is exploiting the world's proletariat?

Because the thing you call culture is nothing more than ideology mate, and ideology is dictated by the ruling class to serve their own self interest. Your ideology pushes you to hate fellow proletarians with different colours, so that you accept imperialistic wars that ravage their countries, so that when the capitalist imports them in your country to serve as slave labour you blame them instead of him, so that you draw an enemy out of them instead of him. Ideology is what pushes you to accept religions that tell you not to fight yourself for a better society, because you'll have a good life after you die. Ideology is what makes you offer your life to the bourgeoisie demagogue so he can use it for his own self interest. culture is what alienates you from your fellow proletarian

taliban ideology is fundamental islamism, a horrible form of religious fascism. did i deny this somewhere? also, do you know who created the taliban user? why don't you google it?

Aristotle is nowhere in the Bible, and all the Protestants are Sola Scriptura, so you're just wrong. Sorry.

There's no Aristotle unless you actually sit the kid down with the Nicomachean Ethics or Thomas Aquinas.

Without them whole Europe would have turned red by 1945 as there would be no Americans in Italy or France not to mention Norway.

Without the Americans most of Asia would be decolonized by end of the war and red.

We could have Soviet Federal republic of Eurasia without them.

Yes, and it had absolutely nothing to do with that of the ruling class.

Before the Revolution, French nobility saw the third estate as descending from a different race altogether. They considered themselves descendants of the conquering Franks rightfully ruling over the conquered Gauls.

Arthut de Gobineau is often cited by far-rightists as an intellectual forebear for pioneering scientific racism, but they fail to understand that he despised French peasants as much as he did Africans or Asians. In fact, he wrote his infamous Essay on the Inequality of the Human Races with the explicit goal of "proving" the nobility was of superior racial stock when compared to commoners.

Basically, pre-revolutionary era ruling classes couldn't care less about what we understand today to be "nationalism" — an ideology that would have lumped them together with people they felt they had nothing in common with.

Really makes you think…

...

Western civ is European Christendom. Meaning a Christian domain that presided over Europe. It doesn't mean Christianity can't exist outside of Europe.

All of the arguments on this board are always nit picky and fundamentally fallacious. Many posters on this board don't even read posts all the way through and rarely even comprehend them.

Probably because you're all still teenagers and your brains haven't fully formed.

I thought "Western culture" was under assault by evil globalist kikes but here it is, being cared for with public funds in the most prestigious museum of the world. :^)

A lot of contemporary Christian worship in Africa is the product of radical American evangelicals.

Europe has never been a homogeneous christian union.

Really makes you think…

Luther a shit. Protestants are even more bigoted than catholics anyways.

What even is your argument. You began with some bullshit about "muh culture" then started sperging out about cuckstianity. What even is your point anymore?

I see it as not us who are to nit picky, but your argument which is too weak.

anyway Christianity has sectarian conflict in it and has never truly stood as monolithic or as a sole uniting force for the European people.

Once again your wasting your time with dumb identity politics.

Sauf que le Louvre n'est pas une ode à la culture blanche espèce d'abruti, mais à la culture dans son ensemble. La culture européenne y est certe trés représentée, si toutefois on considère qu'on peut foutre tous les pays européens dans le même sac, mais oublie pas qu'ils détiennent mêmes encore pleins d’œuvres d'art des pays qu'on a colonisés.

Et sérieusement si tu te demande pourquoi la culture classique décline renseigne toi sur la commodification de la culture et lit Adorno.

REMOVE IDPOL LEFT AND RIGHT

Nothing I posted invokes identity politics. People are saying western civ doesn't exist and i simply defined in such a way basically any cultural anthropologist or classicist would find uncontroversial.

Your entire world view is class reductionist and buzzwords.

Fucking brocialists am I right?

Hmmm, where ever did I hear that before…

Jesus

I'm a classicist and I find it controversial.

Wow another buzzword, which one will you use next, I hear porky is a fun one!

It's the same fucking guy, isn't it ?

...

>>>/reddit/
should be nice for you ;^>

Not sure why you'd think that, but here you go.

No it isn't. Don't be silly.

Anything that isn't pure individualism involves ascribing to some kind of collective identity, you are a faggot for trying to rhetorically skirt around that by disingenuously framing this as "taking pride in other's achievements"

Ridiculous. Leftists have this problem where they take rationalism too far and construct these intellectual frameworks that allow them to "prove" nonsense ("Race doesn't exist!", "Everything is a spook!", etc.) which masquerades as Correct when in reality it's just "correct" in the context of its own limited little intellectual subspace

Why can't they be both (largely) constructed and also an unbroken link to our ancestors? Does it really matter if it allows people to feel that connection?

I agree with the idea Christianity is a excellent thing to try to define Western identity around for the reasons you're pointing out, but I also think our Nazi friend has a point when he identifies it as something that exists as a strong element of the common Western identity.

See above about leftists constructing ideologyspaces

It's complicated and a little irrational. That doesn't mean the proper solution is its negation.

KYS

Das einzige, was derzeit die Niederlande betrifft, dem Cannabis ich meine Zigaretten setzen.

I'm talking about White culture you absolute cunt.

I'm not protesting because right now, a sophisticated machine is in place in France, controlled by the media and the politics who use cops to raise racial tensions for the next election. Cunt.

Dude, I'm going to assume you're from the US and just trolling me. Otherwise, go read a economical book you cunt, go read some Adam Smith.

Hehehe,if it wasn't for "human rights" I would have already beheaded you and start to shit in your thread while your mother suck my cock.
Laws are here to protect you, from people like me.

You'll go to the oven with them as well, don't worry.
You'll have plenty times talking about how it's the fault of the people who make more money than you and not the people who control us.

Si tu branchais tes neurones 5 mins au lieu de lire de la merde, tu te serait rendu compte que je parlais de la culture européen en son ensemble. Mais comme dans notre pays de collabo, quand tu parle des juifs, ça y'est, tu gagne ta propre étoile jaune d'antisémite, bah tu peux rien dire.
Sinon sombre fils de pute:
Qu'est-ce que l'art contemporain?
Qu'est-ce que le féminism de troisième génération?
Qui est Léonardo Dicaprio?
Je continue ou tu va encore essayer de déformer mes propos pour dire que tu a raison et moi tors?

Up until 50 years ago Europeans hated each other and frequently went to war over the pettiest shit

I like germans about as much as I like Saudis.

not American, but you are an annoying frog, fuck off and use deodorant.

see pic
HOLY SHIT, he really is retarded

...

Here's an idea: Stop giving a shit about your "ethnic identity." You did nothing to achieve it. It doesn't determine the quality of your character or your ideas. It is nothing. It's just another thing of no actual importance than porky uses to divide the working classes.

No

Well talking about arguments, look like the only thing you can say to me is about some kind of mental disorder. so, Blocked.

You think it's over?

A culture is simply a way of life. However not one that expresses itself as an individual choice, but rather it is expressed in the way the people in that culture interact with each other. It's not ideology, it is practice.

pretty much this
/thread

yeah, fuck siptars tbh.

...

You're being silly.

Let's start with the fact that European governments actively suppress statistics on ethnicity, and how they're all feverishly trying to redefine what it means to be French or Danish or German to mean "believes in Enlightenment values" and to deny that their attendant ethnicities don't exist.

You're overconfident

The specific contours of Nationalism as it exists today were largely developed in the 19th century, yes. That does not mean that those people were also the first to develop the idea of big ethnolinguistically-defined communities based on common blood and culture and heritage. That the Latin word "natio" meant something different from our understanding of what a "nation" is does not negate the fact that they're ultimately referring to the same basic idea, which is why the latter comes from the former.

What do you mean by lineage and belonging? Also Dorians vs. Ionians is an ethnic distinction that people definitely cared about

Sure. That doesn't mean you could drop a sub-Saharan African into 1805 France and people would think he's "French". People's communal identities presupposed common ethnicity (and therefore common race) long before Nationalism As We Understand it was articulated.

You make it sound like Frenchmen are too retarded to step in a museum. What exactly do you define as "living with" culture?

Yeah, I'm sure unemployed Muzzies are to blame for France's troubles.

And "the people who control us" are…?

Most contemporary artists know much more about "classical" culture than you could ever hope to. In Belgium, you can't possibly go through an art education without Flemish Primitives being covered at great lengths.

And yet they all shared something in common.

Si tu veux parler des merdes genre trois toiles blanches côtes à côte, c'est une grosse bulle spéculative alimentée par des déductions fiscales.
De la politique identitaire approuvée par une partie de la bourgeoisie, qui a pour intérêt de canaliser les frustrations d'une partie de la populations vers des actions inoffensives pour l'ordre des choses.
Si tu supporte pas cette grande marque identitaire, t'en fait donc pas la tienne sera à la mode pendant quelques années, voir le marché se stabilisera en niches, et toi et la vilaine féministe vous pourrez continuer d'aboyer à la gueule de l'autre pendant que le Grand capital continuera s'engraisser sur vos dos.
Un produit d'hollywood, qui est, surprise surprise, une autre machine à fric.

Alors, elle rentre la pilule rouge? Ou il te faut du lubrifiant?

I guess it was french jews occupying north africa until yesterday

Really refuted the heck out of that wew

Why are you guys still so spooked?

I used to be one of you Holla Forumstards but then I killed the spooks I was made to believe about in Holla Forums.

I basically gave you your answer in the first 50 words of my reply.

Please go down to your local La Raza meeting and explain to the assembled Latinos that their culture is an illusion.

Also guys I keep using the word thoughtspace because I'm deriving it from the idea of a vector space in mathematics, it's interesting and you can extend it to philosophy you should Google it

That white Australians come from many different places doesn't mean that a composite ethnic identity of White Australian doesn't or can't exist.

A large mass of people is easy to stop from entering an area provided they aren't supported by a modern military. The entire population of South America could decide to storm the border and sufficient artillery would stop them. Not that I'm trying to indulge in the stereotypical right-wing brown-killing power fantasy, it's just unreasonable to think our police and military couldn't stop them if they *really* wanted to.

Also silly? I don't necessarily "believe" in that.

Which is, in and of itself, something I applaud, I just don't want them doing it here. They shouldn't have to live somewhere where the state doesn't look after their nation; that's why they should have stayed in Latin America instead of moving to A White Country Which Was Casually Looking After The Interests Of Its Own Nation Until Leftism Asserted We Needed To Let In The Whole World.

Also, it'd be easier to rein in porky if we had a shared identity that we could rally around to oppose him. Like in Scandinavia. Socialism thrives in homogeneous societies.

Yes, which is why I made this thread, because "the right" doesn't necessarily have the interests of my ethnic group in mind any more than leftists (stereotypically) do. muh bootstraps and muh capitalism aren't necessarily inherently appealing.

Perhaps the experiences Will Smith has had in his life overlap more with Donald Trump than illiterate ghetto kid, but I don't find that a compelling reason to focus on class over ethnicity.

Yes I am.

It's disingenuous to frame people's affinity for ethnic identification this way.

pretty much

You're right. Most of them even seem to be Asians.

Indeed they did hate each other and go to war over petty shit. Does that mean we should abolish national identities? Do you think people continue to ascribe importance to national identities because they just love hating foreigners so much?

I like having a connection with my past and my ancestors. Most other humans agree unless they're bombarded with propaganda to suppress that inclination. Identification with one's ethnicity is something that arises naturally and is not inherently bad.

Which seems to support my point?

That image misframes the point in question and is, in reality, basically just the eternal joke of "lol unpopular people"

And the fact that Asians to some degree feel that they can participate in the "White Australian" identity is inherently ridiculous, right? While you're saying that that ridiculousness proceeds from the idea of White Australian being a thing at all, I'm saying it proceeds from the Western Establishment's attempts to broaden the idea of who "belongs" in our countries so widely that it ends up being meaningless.

So you agree with me?

Not sure on this one lad. Reckon you might want to do a bit of reading.

Ahoy there sailor.

People's behavior owing more to their material conditions than to their ethnicity is not a good reason to care more about class?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke

(Suggested starting place for your reading)

I never said you did.

Again, the whole political spectrum benefits from this. Also liberals are hardly leftists.

Will smith isn't an exception to a rule. Any black person who is rich is completely different from the ghetto blacks.

I don't see how that qualifies as "suppressing identity". Besides, the reason why European governments weren't eager to maintain ethnicity-based statistics after WWII really shouldn't be that hard to understand. I'll also add that many Frenchmen you would describe as leftists (including liberals) think France would actually be better off with ethnicity-based statistics being allowed again.

… Because that's what the basic premise of civic nationalism is? That's what the French Revolution (theoretically) endorsed to begin with, you know.

Yeah, as I explained earlier French nobility was fond of identifying with a racial group distinct from tat of the commoners. That's very distinct from nationalism.

By the way, most Frenchmen didn't speak French well into the 19th century. Only aggressive linguistic homogenization through the public school system managed to overcome that.

They don't.

It's true. It would also be true of a Belgian, an Italian, a Pole or anyone from a French city too far away for that matter.

No, it didn't. It simply didn't come into play at the time. Their collective identity was shaped by the local realities of rural life and that's why French peasants from a given community could get upset if another peasant from the village a few miles away wanted to settle in. They would purely and simply see him as a foreigner.

Because I've worked in a soccer stadium AND a museum and I've seen it from my own eyes, while making visit or fries.

I've never say that, you fucking commie.

You: The pigs who control everithing
Me: The Jews

If you don't get my point, you're truly a moron.

J'ai l'impression qu'on parle tout les deux une langue différente. Je vois ton point, mais renseigne toi sur l'état de l'UE actuelle (ça devrait plaire à tout le monde l'UE, après tout, le globalisme n'est que l'étape suivante sur l'échelle de la dégénérescence marxiste.

God damn it op, you've got it all wrong. The proper Holla Forumsack does not want to preserve Western civilization because it has some identitarian importance, but because it is objectively superior to it's alternatives.

You could just explain yourself better instead of being smug and posting butts.

You too.

We both recognize the problem of "when ethnicities fight amongst each other the rich just exploit them all". Your solution is that we should stop focusing on ethnicity; my solution is that we should separate the ethnicities, and then each will be much more easily able to take power away from their respective upper classes. See Scandinavia as an example, and America as a counter-example.

Imagine actually believing this.

...

...

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Are you arguing that soccer stadiums are a place where people truly "live with" culture?

kek. That's the most retarded author i ever read.

Of course it had to be a fucking french frog faggot. You along with the germans are the scum of Europe. You're all cancer.

Y-you too
On what? White ethnonationalism formed by diaspora middle class asians in Australia? Fuck off you utter cretin. Go and read something that isn't a paper tract on jewish conspiracies.

Yeah, look…

WE WUZ WHITES N SHEEIT

No, that I've probably done more jobs than you in your entire life.
Joke aside, I was telling that most of French prefer see niggers running after a ball. But it's our condition who want that.

Yeah, a jew who never worked in his entire life, who never get economical lessons and lived his entire fucking life in the bourgeoisie is so much better.

At least we can cure it.
You're more like AIDS.
Because your majority is composed of fags.

hidereply.webm

't necessarily believe Western culture is superior to others, I just like it because it's mine. I think we have much to learn from and to teach to Asians, Indians, etcetera.

So let's not try to delegitimize the idea of American culture existing on that point (which is what I think you were trying to do? I don't remember)

Sounds like we need to radically reevaluate our political spectrum then, which is why I'm here, because I don't think the answer to that question necessarily has to be "fascism" or "monarchy" or whatever

Sure. I just don't think that dramatic-ness (heh) of that difference means we should focus primarily on class differences instead of ethnic differences, because I think ethnic differences are a much more fundamental "problem" that causes me more [cultural] distress than wealth inequality. And again, I think we'd be in a better position to solve wealth inequality in homogeneous societies where people are already in a natural community, rather than having to have community be artificially assembled for them.

Of course it qualifies as suppressing identity, they want to hide that info because they know the ethnic French would be angry if they realized what was going on. Because they want to establish a post-national superstate.

Yes, exactly, they're trying to prop up this weird artificial form of civic nationalism in order to eradicate the ethnically-based Western identity.

That the aristocracy thought they were a superior race does not mean race doesn't exist (which is the point I think you're trying to make?). They are kind of a distinct race, I suppose, since they were breeding largely amongst themselves and thus had a unique set of genes distinct from the rest of the population.

And I agree with the aggressive homogenization point. I look at that more as "it's a tragedy that they destroyed Occitan nationalism" than "nationalism is totally constructed", though

Ok, what does it mean then?

Yes. Correct. This is why ethnicity is a real thing and ethnonationalism is rational.

Because it wasn't necessary. It WENT WITHOUT SAYING that these communities were white. Same reason the American Constitution doesn't specifically talk about how America was intended for whites, because it was obvious that that was what they meant for anyone that wasn't a fringe 18th century SJW.

What are you talking about with regards to white ethnonationalism and Asians in Australia? What is your point?

youtube.com/watch?v=1esrEb9p0Wc

...

Slavery certainly is rational.

Yes. That is what I said. What do you think of it?

...

How very laconic. Any more substantial retort?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalism

What a rational man you are.

Is that a no?

Kek the last and only time time you faggot frogs invaded my country with the "genius" military startegist Napoleon, you turds got kicked very hard and had to retreat.
But the again even a bunch of slaves in Haiti managed to beat the shit of the french army kek

Are you autistic? You missed the Australian asian joke and you've used rational in a way you don't understand.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Kant

Is that a no?

Give it a think over in that big brain of yours.

I worked jobs as a video game journalist, art conservator, web developer and graphic designer. Try again, schmuck.

This is a meme. Marx started working as a journalist before he hit his mid-twenties and remained a tireless, committed intellectual and activist for his whole life.

Again, nonsense. He spent countless hours studying English classical liberalism, French utopian socialism and political economy in general. His command of economics are beyond doubt.

Now you're just being silly. Do you even know what a bourgeois is? Marx often lived in poverty because he was absorbed by his demanding political commitments all the while being pursued by the police of every country he set foot in.

Marx worked much more than you will ever do in your life. Otherwise, you wouldn't be spending your time "defending Western civilization" on an Internet-based Ryukyuan banana-fibre weaving appreciation society.

Oh. Forgive me for thinking you were arguing in good faith.

Isn't that our argument? Aren't you arguing that it's irrational to focus on ethnicity and nationalism because class is more important? Perhaps you're the one with autism if you're obsessively focusing on that one insignificant point instead of continuing the conversation we were having.

western leftists are cancer tbh

… And what, prey tell, is "going on"…?

Civic nationalism is no more artificial than ethnic nationalism.

You're basically admitting that nations aren't organic entity with a will of their own but ruthless state-engineered homogenization processes, then.

The meaning of "natio" is very context-sensitive and changed over time. It originally was used to refer to birthplace in a relatively narrow scope but would also be used to refer to corporations, for instance.

You downright ignored the second part of my response, which precisely highlighted the constructed nature of these divisions.To the Niçois peasant of the early 19th century, Belgians and Bretons, Italians and Marseillais, Poles and Alsaciens were equally foreign (and therefore suspicious).

Well, yeah, there were not enough non-whites around for that to be addressed as an issue. Your point, exactly?

They're displacing the native population with lots of foreigners

False, ethnic identification occurs across human societies, so states constructed around that idea are more natural than "we created a community by diktat now forget about your ancestors" civic nationalism

I think all nations form differently, but that, broadly, most are the sum of some degree of organic formation plus some degree of state-sponsored homogenization. I don't think this makes them any less legitimate or "real", certainly not to the point that it's reasonable to simply disestablish them entirely.

Now I'm the one who'll accuse you of being vague and avoidant. I agree that it was context-sensitive and changed over time but I don't think that extends to being able to assert that it was so unrelated to the idea of blood-communities that it's invalid to point to it as evidence of the idea of ethnolinguistically-defined nations not existing prior to the 19th century.

I freely admit the point that national identities were used as a tool of the elite to bludgeon those sub-identities into oblivion in the name of exerting greater control over those communities. I do not think that that delegitimizes national identities, nor do I think that it's evidence that national identities are entirely constructed. I think it would be better if we had Occitan, Breton, etc. nations rather than France, Germany, etcetera.

My point is that the ethnic component of those people's communal identity didn't not exist just because there were so few non-whites that they didn't have to explicitly state it.

that it's *VALID* to point to it as evidence of the idea of ethnolinguistically-defined nations not existing prior to the 19th century.

WHY IS BLACK PRIDE GOOD?
BUT WHITE PRIDE IS RACIST?

Neither are good.

Which so confuses the idea of ethnicity by throwing back onto history your own meaning of it.

"Ethnonationalism is rational"

This is pure fucking fantasy. Whatever criterion you have for national identity will almost always be a property unique to all of them; in which case you have no independent nations - nations for the French, for the British, for the traditions on which they were supposedly formed - and simply ones on imagination.

But then what can these ever say on the actual material relations of those who live under it. How can it be that you can have universal citizens of each state, yet 'white' governments, 'Asian' parliaments.

? I wonder how we'll judge the character of these nationals. What makes someone 'American' I wonder.

'More natural' than what? 'Organic state sponsored homogenization'?

Evrope trve Repvblic clay. Kick ovt the snow niggers. Zevs and Heracles not Yahweh and Adam..Hail Avgvstvs

Threads like these convince me all the more of my monarcho-fascist mindset. You can't trust plebs with anything, the best plebs listen to what they are told by their betters or have their faces smashed into a curb.