No update in 7 months

for the record, lawbreakers is part of this death and you dumb niggers can't see the forest for the trees and see it's death is part of the genre, not the game.

it got advertising where it needed it, and the audience isn't a mainstream one and never will be one again.

never heard of it, looks like nothing
stop buying identical games, they'll stop making them
stop buying games from all the large publishers, the cancer will die if you don't feed it

I hope so. That's how it was before and it prevented the chinks from hurting the gaming market. Now every game dev is trying to make PUBG clones to appeal to the sub humans even if it means taking critical members off from other projects.
Fortnite was a complete flop right until they added the PUBG mode into their game.

Reported for underage.

that's funny, no one posted the title anywhere
and unreal tournament was made 20 years ago you sad cunt

What genre? Overwatch clones?

UT4 never hit beta, in fact it never hit what they consider Alpha.
You can't say that when there hasn't been an arena shooter made with a decent budget in over 10 years. Tribes Ascend had literally millions of players and while it wasn't an Arena shooter it definitely shows that people still want old school style shooters.

Just admit you are new/underage. After all this is an anonymous image board and no one will know next thread.

arena shooters, dead genre you might have heard of it, but it hasn't been relevant for 18 years

not an arena shooter, had more in common with tf2 than quake 3
its not that either

Good joke Cliff.

can't wait for you fags to hype up toxikk 2 and wonder why it's dead a week after its release.

Kek
Oh look, another game made with no budget and no advertising. It's almost as if games made with no advertising or budget rarely sell well.

likely older than the combined age of all the posters in this thread.
played pong when it was new you stupid millenial faggot. vaccine induced ADHD has made you cunts forget to put a title on what you are writing about, or give any context at all, you just slip into it with clickbait style sentences.

"omgosh, has anyone, like, seen, that, umm, like, ummm film?????? LIKE - TOTALLY!"

it got the advertising it needed and it still died. Advertising won't magically save these games, the problem is nobody wants to play them. You can't seem to accept this and it's just going to result in your continued embarrassment.

Apparently not retard.
You are trying to force a meme so hard and yet don't have a shred of evidence to back it up. Quake Champions might be pure shit but it and Quake live both have/had a very active player base simply because they had advertising.
But no continue being wrong user.

Kek. Go back to cuck chan /vg/ if you want that shit.

...

where is the massive arena shooter base you think they are missing by advertising on steam, kotaku, pc gamer and other outlets?

Where's the audience? Point it out to me. Show me why they aren't playing arena shooters any more. Go ahead, if you think advertising is missing this PC exclusive audience, prove it to me. Prove to me that the audience isn't being engaged with.

Here's what I'm seeing:
the audience is being engaged. Trailers for the game are getting 90K views in some case.
The audience buys the game and has it available to them. it has 800K copies floating around on steam. steamspy.com/app/324810
why aren't any of these 800k people playing? Are they not being advertised to enough? You don't have an argument and you're this much of a dumb motherfucker and you will make this exact thread again about the next arena shit shooter you fell for the advertising for (how else did you find out about toxikk? it was advertised to you.) and then you won't play it because it's not that good, nobody else will play it because they'll all rather play other games, and it'll die. again. and again.

I gave you enough clues to look into it yourself, but if you're too stupid my post is laden with it, you dumb nigger. kill yourself you cancerous redditer.

Shit. One missed linebreak.
Hello, newfag phoneposter. I have played first Unreal (not even Tournament) at the time of its release.

phone posters have auto caps you fuckwit, at least use your brain before you post

Assuming they enable it in the first place. What's wrong with your keyboard then?

...

enabled by default on all standard phones.
welcome to earth you fucking idiot

I don't believe you.

believe it, it's a miracle.
ask me a question about something that happened 20 years before you were born

Guess how old is my phone, double idiot.

This is where user: age 17 fucked up.

They are playing Quake live user and have been for years.
Also you are shit at doing research, Toxikk has 420 thousand views on it's original trailer. Though again these are games made with shoe string budgets and no advertising
By your shitty logic CRPGs and 3D platformers were totally dead a few years ago as well because before Divinity and the rest the genre had no new releases.

wrong again, there were no search engines in 1985.

Also
Literally "It's no my job to educate you".
Quake live was extremely popular because it had the name attached to it. Quake live proves you wrong.

this isn't helping your case. Proves they captured the audience but the audience ended up not caring just like the dozen revival arena shooters before it and the many that will follow.

they were, and there was a very small market for them outside of mario games and it took a fad in a new marketing platform (kickstarter) to attract the interest of CRPG fans and the biggest 3D platformer this year was a series that never really struggled while others like gravity rush 2 and snake pass were pretty much forgotten about.

What don't you get about the message of a foreseeable future, market forecasts, comprehension of trends? Oh I know, you don't get it because you're a sucker and are the target for the marketing.

yeah, the quake audience is still playing quake and nothing else. fancy that.
lol

Just embarrassing yourself at this point trying to convince people of something they don't believe and you can't prove.

you not believing me has ruined my life.
why did you do that?
i would have given you anything, and look what you did in return.

Actually it is. The game was very popular when it first hit steam. It died because of slow updates and fuck ups from the devs. The playerbase died due to this. This has happened to many EA multiplayer games.
Yeah, the game has been dropped. 700 concurrent players is a lot for a game years old dropped by it's team. When I said it was popular I said WAS. It was extremely popular during it's first few years.
Again you are a retard and probably underage.

smells like projection

When people don't know things they should have known if they were alive during the period that it was relevant than it is a good assumption that someone is in fact underage.

says the one who loaded up his first shooter earlier this year while sitting on his big brother's lap
wow!! call of duty:15 is amazing!!

shifting goal posts pretty hard after you realize the game was actually advertised pretty well you fucking idiot.

I played Quake Live when it was first released, had about 2000 players on average. Hasn't gotten much smaller.

y-you must be underage!
spoken like a fresh 20 year old. first person shooter fans consistently prove themselves to be the dumbest fuckers in gaming.

Except it got barely any advertising and was in an Alpha state for 3 years unlike Fortnite which got tons of advertisement and was content complete during EA.

Yeah, next you'll tell me Quake Champions, the "arena shooter" game with lackluster graphics and worse performance and you spend 20% of your time in matchmaking/menus is further proof that arena shooters are dead.
I really wouldn't even be surprised if Epic duped the devs working on this game too, telling them "yes please just keep improving our engine I promise the marketing is coming next month"
Of all things I'd say that CS:GO and even R6S are both proof that a traditionally structured shooter which actually allows you to quickly play the game instead of sit through 50 obnoxious menu animations and lootbox reward opening animations is viable on the current market (even though those games contain lootboxes, they're optional to watch, IIRC they aren't in QC). Marketers continue to convince themselves that nobody wants it, so the money doesn't go towards these games and neither does the talent.

Considering you obviously don't play FPS games and are the dumbest fucker in this thread I wouldn't say that's true at all.

That's not. The game got a lot of attention because people actually wanted a new Arena shooter. The game devs themselves didn't give it any advertising at all outside of their own youtube channel. The game died due to being in EA for so long without any updates.

I'm not convinced because I've seen the cycle happen dozens of times. Sonic fans get painted with a cycle but to be honest the strongest cycle seems to be the arena shooter cycle, about how this next arena shooter will save the genre and return it to its influential greatness.

please kill yourself, retard.

looked up gameplay because I've been ignoring it, looks like an arena shooter to me.
the audience is treating it like one too.
more people play q0 despite its 19 year old visuals
very low IQ detected

You mean the dozens of low budget Arena shooters with no advertising? Oh wow that sure shows me.
I guess you think Overwatch is one too.
You sure do love being proven wrong don't you user?

you already lost that argument, so try again

I think overwatch looks like a slow arena shooter with a different focus, one on moba-like player characters. sorta like tf2 except the classes are given names and there's more of them and they all have less personality.

Really? So you can show me a big budget Arena shooter with advertising to release recently?
Kek, you are retarded.

why do you think a genre that has proven to be so small and in decline for so long as its players just play one game for nearly 20 years would ever get a big budget? Do you live in a different reality? Do you have brain damage?

I guess I could say the same about CRPGs until recently then retard.

absolutely utopian autism right here. yeah nah, come back to the real world, accept the facts, and lurk more you retard.

Skill based arena shooters are dead and not coming back. Ever. That goes for games like tribes as well.

You can make 10x the cash investing in a moba are BR clone or what the fuck fad is currently hot, just look at hirez success after dropping tribes to make smite and paladins.

Not an argument

Yeah, you're a faggot doing nothing but taking potshots in this thread, probably cackling to yourself how pathetic we are for responding to you and giving a shit about something instead of being a nihilist. Just go away.

What proof did you provide? I only saw what ifs. The arena shooter audience doesn't care about new games.

He's done it to countless threads now
You should see him trying to discuss M&B

The sandbox for autists

There haven't been any new games, just mediocre clones of previous successes with barely a budget or marketing.

Like fucking clockwork
What a shitter

None of them had a lot of advertising. You are the retard that thought Lawbreakers was an arena shooter

you mistook a discussion about toxikk for a discussion about ut4. you're a special kind of retard.

also you've been mad for an entire year, autist.

it is an arena shooter, was advertised as one, and definitely looks like it plays like one. Prove it isn't one. None of them are going to get super bowl spots. What is a lot of advertising to you? It's a very vague thing for a very niche audience that doesn't care about anything but quake 3/0.

This. Why would Epic go back to making a game that they are not sure will make money when they have some shitty cashcow right now?

t-they just haven't advertised it well enough! They just need to let people know it exists and update it a little more! It's gonna save PC gaming once it gets its advertisement projected onto the moon for all to see!

3 games and 2 are unfinished
Plus Quake Champions has Hero skills shit in it.
Your whole argument is that Arena FPS player don't want a new Arena shooter.
Why would they want a new Arena shooter when everything that's new is shit or unfinished?
Your stumbling all over yourself like the minge that you are.
You can't make a proper argument, just senseless shit tier rethoric based on your own feelings

Oh look now he's ID hopping again

Holy shit you are retarded. Overwatch and lawbreakers are now arena shooters

Looks like I got into the middle of a shitflinging contest. It is already clear Epic is not spending time on Unreal Tournament. Do you honestly believe they are going to prioritize its release over Fortnite or all of its other cashcows?

and loadouts, a compromise bethesda tried making to attract an audience besides the one that historically has proven not to move on from the same game they've played since 2000.
they don't.
how about since? ut2k4 is shit now? No, it's a great game and has great game play modes but the quake audience, the arena shooter audience, doesn't care about anything but quake.
an exemplary retard here folks, here to defend his dead genre.

my man, just get banned again, you're too fucking dumb to function.

try not to mind him, he's got a history of jumping to defend his favorite things and derail the threads he doesn't like. He's inherently talmudic in his tactics and can't make a coherent argument to save his life. Just insult mount & blade and he'll go into an autistic fit.

Nobody stated that here
So they didn't pander to the audience they should have and git burned in the process?
Thanks for proving me right yet again.
Not an argument
So you're so new you don't even know the sizeable audience of UT2K4 plus the modding community that came along with it?
This is top tier newfaggotry and autism lad, keep going.
I bet you like 3D platformers though.

The only thing you've done this whole thread has been derailing, even before I got here.

What a sleazy kike

New levels of retarded have been reached. Now is the best time to just claim you were trolling.

What even is Lawbreakers besides a shitty game?

Overwatch for "mature" gamers.

Generic fps, but with a "no-gravity" gimmick

Probably for the best, but fucking hell that's a long time. This game used to be bee's knees.

I actually like the idea of a no gravity gimmick. It can work in some games and it has before. This game was retarded to make it so only some parts of the map have no gravity where it should have been the entire map.

A shitty homosexual game

not gonna respond until you learn how to use imageboards cuckchanner. All I have to add:
this is why you need to kill yourself

judge for yourself, I'm just going off of game play footage.

It has bathrooms for transexuals.

If only, this autist has been going at it since 2016
disqus.com/by/grayaresfakcot/
archive.is/dkZbw
archive.is/EeliX
archive.is/YnLFJ
archive.is/skdVu

They're called non gendered bathrooms shitlord!

That in no way looks like an Arena shooter. TF2 is more of an arena shooter.

...

Good Bethkike deserves no money whatsoever.

Did you ever play Shattered Horizon? It's dead now, but I got to play it before it died. Essentially it's an FPS in space where everyone is wearing space suits. Besides the fact that you could float around you could also put your suit in passive mode, so you had no hud but also weren't marked in enemy huds.

Have we had a gamenight with it yet?
It was on the chart

forgot my webm, this is the eternal Tim begging people to play his shitty game, even after he told us to keep playing QL if we didn't like "class based shooter" cancer in quake.

...

...

Lawbreakers is a class-based arena shooter.
It's just really, really bad at it but no one will accept it's part of the genre because no one can fathom the idea of a bad arena shooter.

The genre is simple to explain and it's far less restrictive than, for instance what the FGC calls a "fighting game". There are several common elements between all arena shooters, some things that, if they are present, completely revoke that title and overall there have been quite a lot of games released in that genre.

However, because a lot of idiots are that bad at judging videogames on their own merit, every single bad arena shooter or every iteration that tried something new "wasn't a real arena shooter" because it's easier to complain a "no true scotsman" than to simply admit that there are games of a genre you like that are badly designed or simply don't appeal to you.
You can see that in many discussions about Lawbreakers where apparently it's more important to focus on unisex bathrooms instead of caring more about projectile based weaponry in open z-gero environment standing against hitscan weapons, for instance.

Quite frankly, I wish they'd drop the act and just faced the truth. They are never gonna be happy since they just want a reskin of Quake Live that recaptures the feelings of playing it for the first. That feels like Quake but doesn't look like it. In other words, they want something they can never have and because their goal is unattainable, nothing will ever be as good to them.
Some games are clearly never gonna be decent enough for anyone like Lawbreakers and Battleborn because they are bad games indeed.
Other games will instead try something different that isn't objectively bad, it simply doesn't appeal to them like Fortnite or Overwatch.
And other games will be the exact same thing they claim they are looking for but it just "doesn't feel right", like Xonotic or Toxxik.

Because remenber: The "arena shooter community"'s goal is a game that can't even exist due to it's requirements. and everything else is shit because it's not that.

you're missing the mark pretty bad here, as I've told you many times in the past, it's not just me shitting on you. People just don't like you because you're an autistic child.

moving around arenas and the actual combat seems like it's trying to be an arena shooter, which is why cliffy b was trying really hard to advertise it as one. Which is also why it failed because the people that actually play the genre just stick to quake3/0.

So, where's this audience that would only play arena shooters if they were advertised everywhere? How much advertisement is enough?

them's sacred words reserved for only truly good games :^)

Isn't that the same guy who called an Arch Vile a Revenant?

Quake 3 is shit, I want something new akin to UT or Tribes, Titanfall/Crysis 2 but with no hitscan abuse, kill yourself faggot

99% of the time that devs design a game for esports it backfires horribly. When will they learn?

Sure thing Fakcot

also not my disqus name, but whoever that guy is I'm sure he's happy he's got some autist stalking him

this taste is horrendous
holy shit man just end your life, this is embarrassing.

Nigger, a game being an arena shooter is not a mark of quality. It's a genre, it's not a badge.
There good and bad platformers, there are good and bad fighting games, there are good and bad RTS and there are good and bad arena shooters.
It's not an hard concept to understand and it's actually puzzling that on Holla Forums of all places people would have trouble understanding the concept of a bad game.

Didn't said anything about Quake 3 specifically, nice strawman faggot. :)
You want something akin to UT, are you sure of that? Because every Quake faggot I ever talked to gets seriously pissed about how UT lacks a whole truckload of movement mechanics from it, rocketjumping for instance being a very recent addition and the whole game feeling slow to them.

This is what I fucking mean by "lots of idiots that are bad at judging videogames"

If you want projectile-based combat instead of of hitscan, then you're looking at tight corridors and closed areas. Using projectiles in open large areas like the ones you see in Titanfall requires that either the projectiles move so fast they might as well be hitscan or the players have an inhuman leading ability plus tons of luck.
You get projectiles in UT and Quake because that actually works in tigh spaces, but everytime someone sees an open long corridor, they always change to a railgun or equivalent for a damn good reason.

So no, kill yourself faggot. You want something that's actually objectively bad designed because you literally don't know what you want.

Even if that claim is true, Marathon had MP-specific maps in 1994.

I'm mocking the OP and a certain handful of autists that refuse to accept the genre is dead for a reason

you'd be very surprised

Disregard the first part of the post. I'm too autistic to detect sarcasm :^)

He is also just throwing random examples of shit to pretend like there's an actual attainable goal there that somehow professional teams and passionate devs simply can't deliver for some reason.
Like every other faggot that always argues that side in these discussions, there's never anything bad to point out about stuff like Xonotic or Toxxik, they just don't play it cause "it doesn't feel right" and what they want is always the combination of 2 or more things that don't actually work well together but feel like they'd work well.

In other words, you're arguing with Idea Guys.

What happens is this:

Basically the tldr for Reflex. Also, It's important to note that UT and Quake have two totally different communities, and there will never be a game that both UT players and Quake players like.

Really you are forgetting that the Arena Shooter community literally just plays "dead" games, they have absolutely no desire for new content in the same way that other communities do. They will play a game for 20+ years if nobody can make one that is better. Nobody is trying to "relive nostalgia" in a new game since they still actively play the old game. The reason that none of those games succeeded is because they simply weren't so much better with their gameplay that people made the change.

The difference between the Arena Shooter community and a normal community is that you can't make them play a new game because of "content". You can't give them new graphics because they play all of their games with the textures turned off, and they play maps that are 15-20 years that have been slowly balanced to perfection for over a decade. Quite literally the only thing you can do is create new gameplay, and it actually has to be better than the old games. Significantly better, not slightly different while keeping the same formula.

All of the new games have just had better graphics which nobody gives a shit about, or slightly novel gameplay changes just to justify making a new game which again nobody cares about since they don't make the game better.

So, the crux of the issue is this:
I have never played a better multilayer game than CPMA. Thus, I don't care about anything "new". I have tasted perfection and so I have no reason to waste my time switching to an inferior game. As long as one other person thinks like me, and can play at my level of play or higher, I will never stop.

pcgamesn.com/quake/quake-first-multiplayer-maps
rome.ro/news/2017/8/30/multiplayer-only-maps

Amazing, he really is on the spectrum

I'm well aware, and I agree with you on what you're bringing up. The general point I'm trying to get across is these idiots don't know what they're talking about and I'm showing everyone that step by step.

Wasn't the whole idea of the game to just be a paid mod platform?

yeah, which when nobody cared to make the game for them it fell apart.

Epic never really intended to develop a full game. From the very first announcement it was clear they expected community made content. To put it simply, Epic wanted to lay some groundwork then have others make the game for them. I was telling people this thing was doomed from the outset, but they desperately clinged to it regardless.

Pretty much
It was hard enough to move UT99 fans to the 2K3 and 2K4 iterations.

They didn't even have those systems in place yet.
You don't know diddly shit.
Stop pretending you do

Don't know how to feel about it.

"Small improvements" that apparently are so small nobody ever knows what they are, but they are big enough to divide entire communities. It's almost like it's just an excuse to not change what game you're playing!

I like this sentence since it passes judgement on an entire community and some unspecified feature, using this alone to justify the rest of the argument despite being as non-specific as you possibly can.
Just what exactly are we talking about here? What "shitty feature" was added in a game that divided the community so much? Are you sure it's a "shitty feature" and not a "small improvement" instead?

Irrelevant. Their playstyle is indeed fundamentally different but their state is still the same. One wants their particularly fond version of Quake, the other wants their particular fond version of Unreal. But since no company can give you a game that makes you feel like you're playing another game for the first time, they will never get another "good game" in their genre.
This is akin to saying you don't enjoy the girls you've been fucking around anymore because it doesn't feel as good as when you lost your virginity. No shit sherlock, but no girl is gonna make you a virgin again.

The moment an arena shooter makes enough choices that it finally stands out from Quake Live to atract attention, the community just says it's not an arena shooter anymore and doesn't bother with it.
So every attempt at arena shooters is always gonna break down like this: it's either too similar that there's no reason to change or it's too different that there's no reason to change. It's own merit will never be enough since it simply can't be something that can't even be possible.
You know, it's funny to think that "arena shooters" are a lot like communism, except there have been at least a few successful attempts were a lot of people were killed too.

That they will NEVER like because it detracts from the gameplay that already exists. What do you think class based arena shooters are? And I'm including Team Fortress (all versions) here since it's the most relevant. The class dynamics and synergy between them as well as the expanded teamwork where new gameplay. What did the arena shooter community said about that? "Not a real arena shooter" and kept on playing the same game.

Give a single example of a new gameplay mechanic that would actually be well received and you'll probably be capable of finding a game that already tried it and even got panned for it.

Then your genre is dead and stale. You'll play the very same game over and over again because nothing new will ever reach the goals your own mind set up for it.
It's not that the new games are objectively bad, it's just that they are subjectively bad for you.

talmudic
archive.is/JvoqR
archive.is/rWmLY
archive.is/OgmLj

It feels so good seeing this man so desperate.

Still more fitting than the one with the Cash version.

There was nothing but fanmade maps.
They didn't add the infrastructure to add anything else there like the store.
Keep burying yourself

Nah, fuck yerself with an iron rod shit breath.

QC indeed has (((lootboxes)))

That man and that video is quite the mystery.

The entire point of adding abilities and classes with different amounts of Armor\Health is to create an "unbalanced by design" form of gameplay that lets people play the same game in wildly different ways that feel entirely unique on their own.
But not only did they failed at that since "unbalanced by design" doesn't mean it should actually be unbalanced, they made this decision for a franchise where the playerbase clearly prefers everyone starting on equal footing. And on top of that, the change itself is big enough to piss off old fans but too shallow to attract the usual crowd that likes these elements.
It's even remarkable how much they fucked up with so little effort.

But what's more, that man is clearly autistic. Everyone knows how dedicated the Quake community has, everyone knows just what exactly kind of game they want.
And yet he thinks he persuades people to change game with a "stop playing that, come play my instead!"? It's really like those autistic kids that had no empathy whatsoever and can't think for 5 minutes on what's going through someone else's head.

It's no wonder they have to hire "community managers" and don't even bother when those are huge asspies as well. They still end up doing a better job managing a community than most of these autists could do.

Why would buying X type of game end up producing something that's vastly different? That's stupid.
But you wanna know what's even dumber? Thinking that if you keep NOT buying anything in a genre, you're gonna get someone to try something new in this clearly untapped market. :^)
I pity the arena shooter crowd. You either buy and support games that don't appeal to you or you pass the idea that the market is filled and exhausted and no investment in it is ever gonna see a return.
But either way, you're never gonna have a new Quake Live.

Something tells me that a proper arena shooter revival needs to do what Quake 1 and 2 did: Focus on single player and have MP be a bonus. There's still a market for old school PvE shooters at the very least, judging by the success Sven Co-Op got on Steam.

Should've made a good game

Modern industry is shit and creatively bankrupt and with barely any talent left, why would I buy something clearly inferior to previous games?
I pity faggots who like to pretend that they don't eat modern shit from another genre.

Already not possible
Can't sell microtransactions with it

I do wonder how much money the Sven team gets from donors. Can't be much since it's just two items and no lootbox faggotry

Pocket money, but these are people who give a fuck about the non commercial aspect of this hobby.

this level of enlightenment is remarkable, I'm glad arena shooters are dead with retards like this at the mantle

would be nice, but I don't see it ever happening. quake 1 is still better than all the other games coming out recently trying to nostalgia grab based on it.

pffffffffffffff

Why would I give a shit about what a faggot who fellates Sony and the Sega Saturn and owns a 2012 laptop thinks?

This dog with two bones shit they're pulling is going to snap them in the ass spectacularly someday.

user, I…

2016 laptop, mostly use it at work tbh, and you're very much obsessed with me, this is obvious. at least try to get the facts right if you wanna appear less jewish, boy.

oh if only you've seen the things I've seen. If you think the western industry is shit now it's going to be an absolute clusterfuck in 5 years. I don't see it being a clean get away and I think there will be a sort of crash, but not quite like the one in the 80s. The over-inflated budgets thing is going to fall apart, the lootbox pushing is going to be the straw that breaks the camels back in a few years, and it's gonna be hilarious. Get into Japanese games if you aren't yet.

They only care about negative review when it actually starts hurting their pocketbook - and even then they'll stubbornly bribe reviewers for higher marks for several more years before they finally admit there's a problem.
After extensive focus groups, they'll then always agree that the problem is whatever the vocal minority is complaining about sociopolitically, such as the current punching bags: whites and males.

What's interesting is that they're not just satisfied trashing on white males anymore, though. They trashed on all males equally in the latest Star Wars abortion, and judging by the sheer volume of anti-feminist reviews pouring out of youtube's mainstream, it seems like Disney may have just redpilled an entire generation if not two. Things will be interesting going forward, because the vidya industry will definitely be hit by the shockwave.

I can't wait. I hope it crashes so hard that stockholders leap from windows.

Sure, I believe you
At least I'm not obsesses with a Steamcuck cocksucker that tickled your butthole fancy.
Yeah, before they all become Gachashit or Musous.

Thats not the point, the point is that even a shit eating casual like 6 Dollar Duarte dislikes the trash AAA is putting out, and when that happens you know you fucked up.

That's an excellent point. It's just like what I posted about TLJ and Disney.
If both mainstream entertainment industries are fucking up in the same way at the same time, everybody is going to be waking up with the worst hangovers from all the leftist roofies they've been scarfing all their lives. I never thought I'd see the day.
Where TLJ is concerned, I'm almost convinced that it was intentional and Rian Johnson is ourguy, simply because the movie is so unbelievable bad and blatant that the only explanation that doesn't require Disney to have collective brain cancer is that the movie was deliberately sabotaged and is in fact a massive troll.
Unfortunately, judging by some of Rian's twitter posts, the only remaining feasible explanation is the brain cancer.

I can only hope shit blows up
Getting fucking sick of this shit, even hardcore leftists conditioned by this garbage media to accept these shitty fucking values are getting sick of this shit

Oh, that'd be positively delicious.

I can only pray for such a wonderful future.

It will never happen

Every fps ever
Not in any way. Play an arena shooter before spouting shit

I should have read my post in full before I posted the whole wall of text, I will agree that a "small improvement" is not enough to make a new quake game and I should have deleted it from my post before I posted.

The shitty features are a lack of bright skins, a lack of r_picmip (turning off textures), class-based gameplay, putting item timers onto the HUD. Each of these were implemented in at least one "modern arena shooter" and each one caused massive forum wars between the two sides. And obviously dumbing the game down for newcomers is not an improvement to the game. It just makes the game worse to try and lower the learning curve, and fails because the learning curve will always be high as long as you are marketing to the Arena Shooter community.

What games are those? Maybe they just aren't as good as Quake Live is, so there isn't any reason to switch? People don't want something new, they want something better.

Is Chess stale? Does chess need new content? How are the goals "in my mind"? I want a game that is better than CPMA. I can directly compare all new games to CPMA, because I play CPMA. It's not some kind of fantasy that i'm comparing those games too.

Now, I won't just play CPMA, HLDM is a fun arena shooter too and I love it, it's gameplay is rather different than the Quake formula, and it's an amazing game. Unfortunately nobody plays it except for russians who I cant connect too.

What it did was partition parts of the gameplay into several sections so that you would never have to use each type of skill all at once in the previous games, resulting in a lower amount of skill needed to play overall. You have to have a low max health to move fast, so you can't both move fast and build stack. This means that only slow champions can control the items and actually benefit from it instead of having a maxed out health constantly and a one-click full heal like the one Anarki has. The quakecon tournament was utter shit and the gameplay was awful.

Never say never, user.

You don't even know what an arena shooter is. No one can trust your shitty claim that you know why its dead.

I mean, tons of crazy shit have been happening lately, but I can't see that happening soon.

I could see something like it happening if there's another major global economic meltdown and China's economy starts imploding again. Remember how their government stepped in to stop trading a year or so ago when their markets were in freefall?

It's time to stop replying to the shitter user.
He has fucking autism and will move the goalposts to the Moon if he needs to while pretending to be someone else entirely.

Maybe in the next decade

This nigger derails almost every thread I go onto. It's almost like he has a script that lets him know when someone mentions "PC" or M&B. Shit's pathetic.

Reminds me of a few anons I see using damn near any opportunity to screech about how bad Destiny 2 is. Not saying it's good or anything, but god damn, you'd think it raped and killed their families with how mad it makes them.

Those I can actually understand though. Destiny 2 is objectively garbage and doesn't deserve a thread imo. This kid will autisticly screech at you when you bring up emulation or anything PC. On a PS4 thread a while back he showed his AMAZING taste with titles such as HZD and Uncharted 4 kek

I can't wait to see what happens.

Some people are just genuinely autistic, user. Trigger them and they freak the fuck out over mundane topics. Like how there's no shortage of spergs flat out screaming into mics in Minecraft or Gary's Mod.

ut has always lived under the shadow of quake 3

Just watch him go

Oh hey I recognize you now, I always assumed you were just a young kid with the way you type.

WEW
This kid just doesn't know when to stop.

Is Paragon even still kicking? I played that in closed beta and it was garbage. Too slow, ran like ass and a good chunk of the characters were useless.

Well this thread went to shit pretty bad. Oh its the usual suspects, not a big surprise.

what makes it good?
?

The deformed jew is so afraid of the samurai taking over that he spergs even anonymously.
Japanese games will be pushed into the market and psh away the shitty marxist propaganda games.

A lack of something isn't a feature, it's something lacking. And you're complaining that a game lacks the option to look like shit. Think about this for a second.

It makes for a new genre that I'm glad came up since it allows devs to include new ideas and gameplay that doesn't just fit into yet another gun.

Less mental burden on the players is a bad thing? Not having to remenber several timers is what really upsets you? Are you actually telling me a large chunk of the community didn't shift to Reflex or whatever game does this because it shows that shit? When they could probably just ask for a toggle for it, possibly even server-side?
That's like refusing to eat because your fork is one size too small.

Something better will be inherently new or it's just a reskin. Why don't you stop arguing in generalized terms and you actually say what exactly you'd like to see in a game that makes it better than Quake Live?

Yes, it fucking is. This has to be the dumbest question you asked. It's so stale the first 8 moves in every match are just basic responses that everyone plays by and everything past that is merely a matter of the game not being solved yet.
Your example is also very interesting in comparison since arena shooters face the exact same problem that chess does: it's a game played by a few faggots that lost a crap load of popularity and nobody can be bothered to learn how to play it now since no one wants to go against the few pros that remain and they have other alternatives to waste their time on.
Do you really want to keep the Chess comparison?

And apparently nobody else knows either, considering how many posts have gone by without anyone bothering to drop in their definition.

Doubt it. It doesn't really look like it stands out enough from the current available games especially since TPS MOBA has already been done and better with Smite.
Last I checked, it had some interesting ideas for the economy but overall it had a very small roster, terrible "card mechanics" and the movement around isn't as amazing as you'd hope from an Unreal Engine title.
You might as well play Gigantic instead that does a better job while staying equally jewish.

You ever noticed that the first music you hear from an artist ends up being your favorite one? Even if you can aknowledge that other musics are actually better?
Pretty much that in terms of "what's the better Arena Shooter", and I'd even argue that also explains the Quake vs UT debacle as well.

But ultimately the point is that the "arena shooter community" wants a new game that has features they can't specify at all, just like ideas guys, and they have shunned every change and alternative presented for 20 years or so.
It's like a woman craving a dick that tastes like chocolate and ejaculates money and then complaining that every men doesn't meet it's expectations.

I don't think anyone was talking about japanese games or even that that's relevant for the thread.
Unless the japanese release an arena shooter of their own (they won't and the closest thing you got to it was Gunz), the inevitable success of the japanese industry won't save arena shooters.

Sega did once.

OK, not having something is a "lack of a feature", whatever. If a subset of the community campaigns against having a standard feature that makes the game better, they're making the game worse. Look at the two screenshots- you literally can't see shit in QC at all. Even if visibility was better, it would still be an inferior experience to playing the game with no textures and brightskins, because that eliminates any kind of visual clutter which just detracts from the experience. Again, gameplay > graphics.

Class based gameplay is absolute cancer- what you are doing is taking the skills that you used to use all at once and partitioning it across several "classes". Thus, the entire game is simplified and dumbed down by this since you can no longer use all of your skills at once. It's nothing but a restriction on the player.

When you put item timers on the HUD you are simply removing a skill that makes the game very interesting and adds a lot of depth to the game. There are no longer strategical mistakes and upsets because of mistiming, there are no longer tactics such as delaying pickups to cause the other player to lose timing, and there is no longer a reason for an out of control player to try and peek at an item pickup to get timing again. You're literally talking about removing one of the core mechanics of the genere. Item timing is part of what makes a game an AFPS, if you don't have it it's just aim/positioning with most of the strategy removed.

I think CPMA is a better game than Quake Live, if I knew how to design a better game than CPMA I would design it, but I don't.

Chess is fun and not stale, granted while I am not retarded at chess, I know all the rules, I have never made an attempt to learn the metagame of chess, because I have been satisfied with learning everything myself, since that's the fun of it.

If you want my definition of an Arena Shooter, it's an FPS game where you do not start out with a "loadout" and instead have to pick up items that respawn on a timer. The game is generally not objective-based, but point based: killing other players is how you win, not by completing an objective. Some gamemodes might be objective based, though. Being able to pick a starting weapon doesn't mean that it's not an arena shooter, but the starting weapon must be inferior to the weapons you can pick up on the map, and the gameplay concept of "item control" must be present.

Japanese takes on shooters tend to be a lot better than Western ones, at least there's a lot more creativity in how the games are designed. As far as shooters go, Splatoon comes to mind and it's pretty successful as far as Japanese shooters go. Not quite the same itch being scratched that Quake might, but definitely a unique experience.

Sounds to me like Epic is another company that should be added to the list of things that should die.

Its creative but the core is absolute garbage.

Tencent meddling with their shit mostly.

You're arguing in extremes and you'll be doing it alone if you keep that up.
A scene can indeed be "too busy" which is a valid criticism, but it can also look like absolute shit with no eye candy or detail whatsoever.
Or, you know, it can use geometry and color schemes to deliver a slick beautifull map that still easily highlights other players and pickups, like most UT maps do.
We don't have to resort to extreme examples, I'm not looking for the cinematic experience of QC, but I already have Geometry Wars, thank you very much.

There never was a "skill" for turret placement, for prioritizing healing in your team, for passing unknown and choosing your picks or drawing attention and soak damage so the rest of your team goes unharmed.

If you don't like to do any of these roles, that's your personal taste. But games are not inherently bad just because they feature these roles as well that actually expand upon the game.
Team Fortress would never be the game it is today if the game was strictly a Soldier with the speed of a Scout and the Sniper Rifle as secondary.
Again, you're mixing your subjective taste for objective qualities and dumbing it down yourself by ignoring all the extra gameplay that you could never have in previous arena shooters.

What skill? Counting time? Keeping track of multiple numbers?
Because there's still room for the skill of controlling pickups, for traversing the map as fast as possible and even for shooting at people, believe it or not.
If the only "skill" that goes missing is keeping track of an invisible counter in your head, please ask yourself: Why do you even play the fucking game? To shoot people or to mentally count to 60?

Here we go with the fucking exagerations! The pickups are still there, the timer is still the same, traversing the map is equally hard, your enemy is equally though but you just don't have to go "1, 2, 3, 4…" in your head, that's all! Anyone else would call it a QoL improvement, but apparently you have to grasp at literally anything, even dumb shit like this, to pretend you actually have a valid gripe with other games and more depth than there actually is.
To topple it off, it's also not as important as you think. The timers of armor are set so that at some point both spawn at the same time so both players have a chance at getting armor anyway.

And yet you feel like you're fit for criticizing games and decide why they are objectively worse than CPMA.
You realize you're saying for a new game to topple CPMA, it would have to possess qualities you can't even point out, making it an unattainable goal, right? Don't act surprised when no one can do the illogical.

Opinion and false. I've actually made an attempt at learning the meta. It's roughly interesting but ultimately not very fun since the whole premise is to try and make the game as predictable as possible.
So you used an example of something you barely know to defend something you also seem to barely understand. I'm noticing a pattern here.

I don't see how one is incompatible with the other or why starting with a set of weapons makes it any less of an arena shooter when you're still shooting people in an arena. Red Eclipse gave you a starting loadout of 2 weapons and you could others as you went, as well as many pickups. Is Red Eclipse not an arena shooter because of this?

Right. UT is only an arena shooter when you're playing Deathmatch and similar modes. The second you go for CTF, Bombing Run, Assault or Onslaught, it's an entirely new game now.

You're this close to imply that MOBAs are arena shooters if only they were in first person.

Splatoon is indeed a great game and the ink stuff actually expanded the gameplay greatly.
It's the kind of things I'd like to see arena shooters improve on, movement mechanics that don't depend strictly on bugs and exploits.
Red Eclipse for instance had some neat parkour mechanics that were fairly balanced with an optional energy bar and the game was lots of fun because of that. Too bad it looks and sounds like shit, though…

Arena shooters are dead because no one makes good bots anymore, that makes anyone that just want to have fun alone not play while leaving the autists that will not stop playing quake3 and ut98/04 without textures.
Want a arena shooter to be successful? make it single player, with all progression attainable by playing against bots and with difficulty customization (from customizable bots to wacky mutators)
Ironically, what killed the arena shooter genre was not market changes or too much/too little inovation, it was too much focus on multiplayer.
Know why Overwatch and Heroes of the storm still has so many people still playing? because their progression can be entirely done in co-op mode or even alone with other 9 bots.
Blizzard found out the hard way after diablo 3 died not even a year later, all their new games, even though they focus a lot on social gaming, still has alternative modes for people that hate competitive gaming or just want to be fucking alone.
Fucking ironic they are the only faggots that seem to understand that.
Why do you guys think Warframe and Path of Exile, two buggy hellholes that are grindy as fuck have so many players?
Maybe PUBG is a giant of PVP, but how many years will it stay alive? i bet you all that PUBG will go down and both Warframe and PoE will still be alive and kicking.
Fuck PvP.

Can't say I do. I do remember mostly everyone being cautious and suspicious about it though.

I just want a new good offline FPS to play

You're arguing with a faggot who despises PC gayman lad.

Oh, ok.
I don't always feel like reading the entire thread before pointing out something wrong in the first reply.

Last I checked, Xonotic had some decent bots for you to play alone.
Unreal Tournament, the one being discussed here, also has decent bots and some unlockables you get from playing challenges against them, exactly what you're asking for.

Eh, not exactly but close enough. They are relatively fast games in the sense that a round won't last very long. Overwatch rounds go for roughly 5 minutes or so compared to stuff like Team Fortress that can easily reach 15-20. HotS will have games done and over in 15-20 minutes compared to the regular 45 minutes that LoL and DotA require.

It's not that you can play against bots for those games but rather that the personal investment in them is far smaller and it ends up feeling a lot like you're playing against bots because of this so it feels much more simple and casual.

Actually, because of their gameplay. Warframe is fun if you consider the grind something you do on the side, not the main point. It's fun to do acrobatics and shoot\slice aliens a lot.
Path of Exile also has interesting character growth mechanics and neat ways to abuse the Skill Gems that keep people interested. It's also essentially the unofficial sequel to Diablo 2 that people wanted but Blizzard didn't deliver.
Please don't sell these games short, there's more to them than just playing alone.

Depends on how soon the next fad arrives, but it's not like it matters they already made a crap ton of money with it.
And to be honest, PUBG got a lot of players because it's easy to understand and play, it's gameplay is far more intuitive than anything that goes over in most arena shooters and it requires far less abstraction to get into than arena shooters were apparently you're supposed to fight The Polygon Wars.

Just making that clear
This is the same retard that argued that people here were pushing that Strafe was going to "save PC gaming".

Maybe, I don't care about eye candy, but just about gameplay. It makes the game feel much nicer to play when I turn off the texture details.

TF would be shallow if there was just a soldier with a few extra abilities, but it has less advanced gameplay than Quake just because the concept of TF's classes is an attempt to replace the complexity that is removed when you remove item pickups as the fundamental concept of who wins and loses.

I think that you really have a huge lack of understanding of how these games work if you can't understand what value Item timing adds to the game. Please, try and watch: youtube.com/watch?v=XdkDjsBiO58 To try and understand the kind of role it plays in a pro level game before talking about mechanics that you don't understand. Have you played Arena Shooters at all? Really the only thing you are telling me, with all of this talk about how item timing is not an important aspect of the game, is that you don't know how this game works. That you've never understood the game at more than a shallow, surface level. That video can explain a lot about what kind of strategy it adds, I simply can't write it out in a post or explain it in a better way than that video can.

Ok, I don't want to leave without answering the rest of your arguments, but I have to go now, so i'll argue with you more in a few hours when I come back. Also, I didn't invent the term "Arena Shooter" and I think its a flawed term, but you know and I know that we are stuck with it, so please dont try and hold me to "Shooting people in an Arena" when people try and use it to describe it as "games like quake and stuff"

Still arguing in extremes. The low detail mode for those games is used by tryhards that put winning above having fun with the game and will sacrifice detail so there's no distractions.
Everyone else apreciates the eye candy because they don't want to be a polygon shooting light rays at other polygons, they want to be a Skarj ripping humans apart.

What a cluster fuck of a sentence.
Classes weren't added to replace armor pickups, what in the actual fuck am I reading?
Classes were added so you can give a sentry or cloaking device or extra base movement speed to a player and still keep it balanced.
Classes exist so you can play multiple different games inside the same game as every class is an experience in itself.
They weren't included just so the Medic can replace the Big Armor or so the Sniper can replace the Quad damage, what the fuck?

And you're being a disengious idiot since you keep ignoring the entire point of that gameplay and brushing it aside as "not important" when making comparisons.
Item control is key in traditional arena shooters while in class based arena shooters teamwork and cooperation become far more important instead, with a lot of class synergy and proper placement or simply combining skills playing a major role.
You want to downplay all that because you don't personnaly like it, fine. But it's your opinion and you're the one deceiving yourself by ignoring what came instead of item control.

You colossal illiterate nigger. I've already said that there's indeed a very important part of the game in controlling item pickups for armor, extra health, double (quad) damage and super weapons. But I'll fucking question how important or how much better\worse a game is just because it forces you to manually count the time instead of putting a timer on your screen instead.
That you put so much more importance on the timer itself than in literally everything else surrounding the entire mechanic shows you're grasping at straws here.

Wanna hear something funny? In HotS you have neutral camps of creeps to kill for a marginal advantage over the other team. If you're present when those camps are destroyed, you'll see a timer over them so you know when the respawn.If you arrive when the camp's already destroyed, you won't see any timer at all.
This mechanic reinforces the focus on taking down these objectives as you not only get their advantage, you also get to know exactly when they'll be available again.
Blizzard of all companies did what appears to be a better design philosophy than your timer autism.

And yet you seem to have a very strict definition on what it means.

I don't think item timers on the hud are a good idea either. Those things are part of map awareness. Much like how you can hear your enemy around the map around the map, you don't get an explicit radar on their location. You can also get an idea of what items and health/armor your opponent has based on sound cues, but you also don't get an explicit hud detailing it.
There is generally some meta and mindgames around items where picking them up is intentionally delayed to knock off sync if any. Players generally do not have the same odds of obtaining the item because of the way the maps are designed (asymmetry, stack dis/advantages).

Ok, I am phoneposting just to finish my post a little, I have played tf2 and it's fun and has unique gameplay, I'm not unaware of that, but quake has it's on unique gameplay in its team modes, and that is lost if it is infected with the idea that every shooter should be class based , thats why I am calling the class based idea a cancer, since I don't think you get how quake team modes have their own unique gameplay that relies on a lack of classes and objectives to get depth. So if you look at quake Tdm on the surface each player has less mechanics than say one tf2 class, the players usually just have two weapons, because they are sharing, etc. the depth comes from the idea that the objectives and roles are fluid and up to the team, and the idea of small fights over the armors and big fights over the power ups, all which have to be timed, makes it a very interesting game, if you watch some of the games from the quakecon 2016 tdm games, especially on the map grim dungeons , it's a very nice game and a great example of an alternative to the class based idea.

Also just because I am not able to invent a better game doesn't mean that it's impossible, nobody knows what they want until they get it really.

Fucker knows what hes doing, its just steering shit and trying to push a point that was already invalid as a "argument", thats some cuckchan tier shit.

I don't think you understand what i'm talking about here, decent and some is not going to cut it.

I do agree and disagree in some points on the rest of your post, but seeing as this is already becoming a shitposting fest i will refrain for making it worse.
I also agree with everything you said in

Low detail mode, which is used by everyone, makes the game more fun in the same way using a better mouse makes the game more fun. I can't tell if this is a lack of understanding or bait.

Also you have misinterpreted what I said , I didn't mean to say that the classes in tf2 are analogues to the items in quake, but that you have removed game mechanics and then you have replaced them with different ones to keep the game deep and fun. I didn't get to finish that part of my post because I had to leave.

And please just watch my video, I literally cannot convince you by writing posts, but that video can, it's a play by play where the guy playing explains how timing items implacts how the game is played and what strategy it adds.

please define "everyone", because i played UT and quake my entire life and never used that shit.

Please note that I'm not saying timers on your HUD are an actually good design decision.
I'd guess some would call them QoL improvements while others would deem them intrusive and the best course would be to make them a server option.

However, compared to the whole mechanic behind them and the effects it has on the game, I seriously doubt anyone would actually pass up a game simply for featuring those timers and I'd look for better reasons than that to explain it.
It's not that they are good or bad, it's that they fundamentally don't matter that much anyway.

More like you're funposting, amirite?

Nobody claimed every single shooter should be class based, where are you getting that from? It's just a gameplay avenue that a few games chose to explore
and others haven't, that's all. However those that did carved out a new niche in the market by offering a new experience while the games that didn't pretty much stayed carbon copies of Quake and see the limited success they get because of that.

From this, I don't extract that every shooter should be class-based, otherwise Lawbreakers and Battleborn would be successes as well while PUBG would see no players. Rather they have to find something else that's new and carves a new place in the market, not simply redo the very same game everyone already played thousands of times over.

You get little to no synergy between players and most of the teamwork boils down to proper positioning and sharing pickups. You get all that plus a lot more in class based shooters.
Say you have 3 Quake players going down a corridor. They can all shoot at the same guy or spread out and cover multiple routes to control a powerup.
Meanwhile, 3 players in TF2 can pick a Medic, an Heavy and a Pyro to make a mobile tank that's defended from spies and projectiles, partially vulnerable to snipers only, something they have to keep in mind as each one of them is also doing something far different than what the other 2 are doing.

No, I suppose I don't actually get what you mean. I spent a lot of my childhood playing against bots in UT2K4 since I had no internet back then and managed to reach the point I could go toe-to-toe with Inhuman bots on my better days, but since all the progression I ever needed was the campaign where it practically doesn't matter what difficulty level you start in, it's gonna be a rape fest by the end and the difficulty just makes the bots cheat anyway, I don't much see the point of grinding with bots.

Everyone In quake, I never played UT so maybe considering brightkins and low detail to be very important is more prevalent with the quake community , so really just everyone playing quake nowadays

I don't use it, there goes "everyone". And it doesn't make the game more fun, it makes it simpler visually so you can focus on hitboxes and collision geometry for competitive optimization. You don't get a more responsive game or smoother input like with a mouse, you just get something that you can process faster with your brain and eyes.

Yes, mechanics that are indeed different. While Xonotic, Reflex, Toxik and similar games distinguishes themselves from Quake by minor details like map geometry or weapons that work in some different ways, some other games like Team Fortress and Overwatch will instead prefer to give you entire new and different mechanics that you simply don't get in Quake.
They fundamentally give you an entirely new type of game, that nevertheless is panned for not being the same game anymore by people that also complain those other games are not different enough from Quake.
I'm just mocking the double standard and retardation that goes in here, that's all.

If you can't explain what the video taught you, then you learned nothing from the video and I have no reason to waste my time with it.
I also likely already saw it anyway which is why I both know the stuff you're going on about but also that there's uneven timers so a player can't control 100% of items against equally skilled players, for instance.
It's still not an argument that makes timers on your screen this horrible thing that they alone put people off from trying an alternative game, which is my original point.

You mean the players that are just focused on the kill count and don't see railguns, they just see a hitscan that causes X amount of damage.
A really fun crowd, riots at parties I'm sure.

It has a major influence on player behavior. I don't agree that it doesn't matter much. You can sort of observe this in Xonotic between a warmup phase (where players may see timers) or whatever odd server has item timers enabled for players.

The game itself hasn't changed, but player efficacies have.

Pretty much this. They hoped for the "Modders will fix it!" mentality.

You've obviously never played quake tdm, in an actual pickup game. Quake tdm is infinitely harder than tf2 to play. In tf2 the maps are literally just big corridors with multiple paths so that no matter where you go, as long as you go forwards, you run into the enemy. Dying doesn't matter in tf2 beyond losing time, while in quake tdm every single kill on your side has to be made up. What happens is both teams have to have a very high level of coordination or one player will die too much and tank the score, the team actually has to make decisions about how to move through the map instead of walking forward through a corridor shaped map. The idea of "tanking " like what your describing is utterly retarded to do in quake because every scrap of armor is fought over. The teams both show up when a major item is spawning, and have to contest it- this takes far more coordination than tf2 s gameplay does because so much of the game is up to the player, while tf2 is very carefully designed to emphasize class composition and teamwork in the context of classes that it doesn't have the kind of complex gameplay quake tdm has. Of course on a surface level tf2 looks deeper, especially if you look at some random pub tdm server in quake where strategy and teamwork is nonexistent, while tf2 is designed to funnel noobs into doing something that at least remotely resembles a strat, even if its walking into the enemy team.

It doesn't improve your aim, help you move faster, give people's position away, make your weapons stronger or anything similar.
In a way, I can see the point of it being that it drastly pulls fights towards those upgrades far more than other games since it highlights valid ones for the taking.
The end result ends up being a bit less roaming and more defending specific points and even then, only a bit more than in other games in what's essentially an advantage that everyone gets anyway.

The change can indeed make the game a bit slower as people stay in an area far longer than they'd be if they didn't knew the timers and that's a valid criticism, I suppose.
But then again, it's a change in philosophy to make fights happen in specific spots\rooms with less lonely roaming instead. Wouldn't the increase in time spent in 1v1 vs just walking around make it actually a better game?

You're now comparing Quake and TF2 by using different gamemodes with different rules. Why would you choose to discredit yourself this hard?
The point of TF2 is to congregate a fight surrounding specific points in a map, death costing you time gettting back there.
Meanwhile tfm in Quake can happen around the map and the relevant points where fighting takes place shift as timers change but death costs you a point for the other team instead.
How and why would you even attempt to compare both gamemodes?

A Medic dies and he loses his Uber while the rest of the team loses healing, a Soldier loses his charges, an Engineer leaves his buildings unattented and coming back to the battlefield is quite a severe penalty to the point that the game features Teleporters if that didn't clued you in.
I'm not arguing that it's better if that's what you think, I'm arguing that it's different, that it has a lot more going for it than you think or are willing to admit since if it's not a tube out of which projectiles come out or an object that increases your numbers, it's apparently not gameplay to you.
What about you leave the low-detail mode strictly for graphics instead of using it for gameplay analysis as well?

And therefore it doesn't exist. Meanwhile in every class based shooter that features tanks, healers and health kits, it's a gameplay feature that can be used and mastered, knowing when and how far to extend, keeping the medkit locations in mind or protecting the teammates that keep you alive.
Instead of just running around collecting shards.

Teamwork and strategy in Quake boil down to having everyone in voicechat reporting what they see and that's it. There aren't actually gameplay mechanics about teamwork except positioning that class based shooters feature even better and maybe not taking a specific power up and leaving it for your teammate, but that's it.

It takes away the conscious effort you should be doing on your own. It's a part of game sense as said before.

I don't know why you'd bring up there being less lonely "roaming". That's part of individual prioritization and preference of going off and stacking back up and aggression.

Is this a fucking joke? You LITERALLY compared quake TDM and TF2, the EXACT SAME different gamemodes and different rules RIGHT HERE . This is just blatant bait.

Also, I am just trying to explain how they are different, you are writing this post like its some kind of argument against your game and not an explanation for you of how the game works.

Also, most of quake's depth is from the meta-game, not as something explained to you on the surface. You're acting like because it's not a first-class feature programmed directly into the game, then it doesn't count.

I could explain it but it would take a small essay of writing, when you could just watch the goddamn video. Also you aren't an exception because from your posts I know that you don't even play these games

Can I get a tldr about this thread and a few retarded anons derailing it?

go and read it nigga, stop being so lazy.

You illiterate dumb little shit, I compared the gameplay options a player has, not the gamemodes. Learned the english language before tackling the herculean task of reading it.

The penalty for death and the focus of the game are different between both games because they are playing different gamemodes and therefore you can't really use them for comparison at all.
However the amount of gameplay options you have at any time, the variety in weapons and mechanics and the combinations you can use them with are indeed stuff that you can compare between both games since they are common elements.
You honestly can't even analyse and understand my post, why the fuck do you think you'd do any better at analysing a videogame genre?

No, I'm doing that. You're acerting that they are inferior, that they have less depth, matter less and are either redundant overall or intrusive to the actual parts you deem important.

I actually fucking hate TF2 since it's class balance is a fucking joke and I have to defend it from mongrels that willingly choose to ignore every single aspect of the game that sets it apart simply because it's not a part of some other game they prefer.
Quake is designed centrally for Deathmatch, especially 1v1 and everything else is a side mode because why the fuck not?
Team Fortress is centrally designed around teamwork (or it should be) and therefore it expands gameplay to accomodate that.
What you can't fucking argue against is that instead of trying to be Quake Live 2: Green Edition like many other games tried to be (Reflex, Xonotic, Toxik), TF2 actually set out to be something different and got a huge player base thanks to that. And several years later Overwatch does the same thing for the same result. And a few years later PUBG does the same thing for the same result as well.

It's almost like putting up something new instead of repeating the same design or bloating it with more crap actually picks people's interest and is a valid way to make a videogame.
That maybe these new games aren't actually that bad, you're just only good at playing CDMA and you're not willing to learn how to play something knew where you won't fair as well because it features gameplay you're not used to.

And what do you think class synergy is? One of the reasons TF2 competitive is such a shitshow is also because it's entirely centered on the 6s meta and the only viable team it created.
That arose from the way the classes and the maps are designed, not because it was something explicitely programmed in the game either.
And hilariously, because it's not something you can understand that easily, you'll assume it doesn't exist either.

Already watched it, told me nothing knew since I'd seen it before.

We are at the implication part of the debate now, are we? I played mostly UT2K4 like I said, which I still prefer over Quake. I've recently branched off and tried Red Eclipse, Reflex and Xonotic. Even dipped my toes with Sauerraten and Warsaw or whatever that game was called (the one with the vore mode).
Personnaly, I'm split between Unreal and Xonotic since they both have good gameplay that's fundamentally different but still quite varied. Red Eclipse is a good runner up due to the many new things it brings to the table but it looks like trash, sadly and the weapons aren't as good either. Reflex and Toxic… Eh, it's just Quake all over again, the differences really don't justify them at all.

Is that enough for my Gamer ID Card info, officer? Or can you finally understand that I'm not defending one game in particular since I'm more interested in their design than the game itself?

Quake and similar games stagnated. They can never be anything different, no matter how much you wish they were since being different makes them something you won't like.
All threads about arena shooters on Holla Forums are always either gonna be the Xonotic server or salty faggots wailing for a game they don't even understand why they can't ever get while defending that a stagnated genre is actually a good thing.

At least the RTS fags know very well that the genre needs innovation placed in it.

The thread started about how Epic abandoned Unreal Tournament since it was only supposed to be a benchmark test and development example for their Unreal Engine.
Supposely, they are now more focused on Fortnite and Paragon while using their launcher to sell DLC, skins and create a Workshop like Steam has but where you can sell your mods.

The thread then was soft-derailed by a Doom Prophet speaking about how "arena shooters are a dead genre" because nobody has any interest in them anymore, to which someone argued that these games aren't very well advertized and the Doom Prophet responded by casting a lvl4 Evil Divine spell "Evidence" to blow them the fuck up, showing that not only there is massive advertizing anyway, the community surrounding these games is niche and not only doesn't need advertisement, they don't even care about it.

Afterwards, he started talking about why the genre is now irrelevant, that nobody cares about it and that Lawbreakers is also an arena shooter, it just happens to be a terrible one.
I then joined the argument detailing more on that and explaining why there's no interest in most people to play Arena Shooters or why there's little interest in the established community to switch games.

Right now there's an argument going on from a guy that believes class based shooters replaced item-based gameplay with pretty much nothing of value because he doesn't like to play Engineer or Medic and he makes a comparison with Chess as an argument for why Quake doesn't have to change, completely oblivious to what a fucking meme Chess actually is IRL and proving everyone else right.

Next up I suppose we are gonna talk about how people should play the same game 23423542354345 times over and over again because it's perfect and there's no reason to try anything new since everything else is shit for not being exactly equal to that game.
The justification for that is that we want change in games that we don't even know what it is so we will cherry pick anything at all to justify why we don't switch games ever, like claiming we avoid Reflex strictly because it has timers on your HUD.

see

then see this
This is the said Doom prophet on the screencaps and archived links.
A console war nigger that despises PC, fellates Sony and derails every thread by trying to force his shit opinions with actual facts, instead pushing only for rethoric and trying to push said opinions with ID hopping pretending to be someone else.

Y'know what else is funny? It's probably Cliffy B's fault Epic ended up having to sell to China.

sounds like you're the one peddling narrative m8

How about you actually read the archived threads?

At this point , your posts are nothing more than bait, I am ready to give up on trying to get anything out of talking to you. Whatever points you are trying to make, it's really hard to find them because most of your text is dedicated to calling me names for disagreeing with you.

I am good at TF2, and other new games, they just bore me. They don't have the same depth, and I have played them. I just simply can't have the same amount of fun in a more limited game. It's incredibly easy to see which games are designed for more casual players, and while it's fun for an hour or something killing people in TF2 as the soldier it's not a game that requires you to think nearly as much as CPMA. If I played 6s or something it would be more fun, but I just never bothered. Overwatch is the same except not being able to see kills just makes it feel like i'm doing nothing at all, also slowly moving around the map with one gun just feels terrible. If you remove a lot of mechanics, then there are less ways to express yourself by playing and its just not fun. I can win and lose a game of overwatch and neither of them are very interesting.

"Innovation" is fine, but if it's not an improvement, or something that is better in a diffrent way, then I wont play it for anything beyond the sake of novelty.

I think that the point of the engineer is so that kids can play TF2 and still get kills even if they are playing on a track-pad. Sentry-guns literally play the game for you. And also sorry for not keeping up with the Chess metagame, my experience with chess is that it was explained to me when I was a kid and then I have not ever looked at "professional chess", at all.

So all I got from this is you are the autistic that derailed the thread and are now samefagging because no one but him would think Lawbreakers is an arena shooter. So basically TLDR you have autism.

nah, how about you give me a reason to care, plus one of your links is broken. work on your presentation.

Oh I remember that sony nigger. His lists of "exclusives and reasons to buy the ps4" were all indie ports. Ok, I can believe that retard would be dumb enough to samefag and claim Lawbreakers is an Arena shooter.

Pretty much
He does this all the time
Changes IDs and pretends to be someone else entirely.
While giving the same exact opinions and posting in the exact same way.

You cared enough to reply Fackot
archive.is/EeIiX

If you're talking about the guy who made that huge list, that's just an innocent newfag.
See for the real thing

FPS genre is stale and I don't feel like there's any game notably better and different than CPMA.
Overwatch adds MOBA aspects. I fucking hate MOBAs
PUBG is a shitfest
Fortnite is neat, but not the kind of game I want to play.
Xonotic is cool and a better game than CPMA, but is still too similar.
Warframe PvP is fun and fast but heavily flawed as an actual competitive game.
GunZ is a mess. GunZ 2 is less messy but awkward af to play and way slower.
TFC is really awkward and in general feels like shit to play
TF2 is slow and shit
Unreal is slow
Warsow is neat but still too similar to CPMA

I want a game that isn't healer/tank/dps class dynamics and is as fast/faster than CPMA while being significanly different mechanics and movement-wise

Can't even dodge

Do you just accuse everyone who disagrees or confronts you of being the same guy?

You're not fooling anyone

Go play tribes.

I just want a new Tribes and for it to not be shit. It doesn't even have to be great, just not shit.

Only if Hi-Rez dies and the IP goes to someone that is not part of the jewish circle
It seems that they are making a Battle Royale tribes now, everything is darkness now.

Have you been living under a rock? This faggot derails might near every thread with his console wars shit. Maybe you're 1 of the very few autists who go on granblue threads and nothing else.

It's sad but I am looking forward to it because the beta will be pretty fun for a month or two before they kill it again.

Wait a moment, so that guy shitposting in the monster hunter threads about how PC was second class because it will get the game later is him too?
Why would anyone waste so much time of his life doing this?
That can't be called Autism, it's something worse.

oh ye forgot to mention Tribes.
While Tribes is fast movement-wise, it's pretty slow gameplay-wise. It's much more about positioning and timing rather than reflexes.

Why? They openly admitted they are specifically designing the game to appeal to the west.

That's irrelevant to the disscussion at hand user, go ask that in the monster hunter thread, you will get better answers there.
Watch out to no be the nipanon of the day

So… you want a different gameplay mechanic, without it being different?
I think you don't really know what you want.

Yes

...

...

So do you just accusre everyone you dont like of being him? I'm not reading your gay archives, just post a greatest hits of it instead

nope

Too bad then, keep guessing
I will however give his ID in each of the archived threads because I'm a chump

...

Screenshots, moron

Keep guessing then

wow this thread took a turn for the autistic with you at the helm, any way I take some contention with the PS3 thread you linked in archive.fo/YnLFJ. your archive is incomplete because you were banned partway through the thread with your post history wiped for starting a console war about the switch in a PS3 thread.

here is my own archive from before your ban with your ID highlighted.
archive.is/GKxIL#selection-11159.0-11159.6

you peddle console wars, start them, and have admitted to ID hopping in the past while accusing others of doing it. You really have to get over the fact I made fun of mount & blade about a year ago. It's not a good look to be so mad for so long and I'm actually genuinely concerned about your mental health if something that small is providing an almost daily hang up for you that you hunt down some random guys disqus account and think it's me. I think it even predates when I started calling you gamezard because you defended him in that one thread (archive.is/Au9Hi) which sort of leads me to think you are actually gamezard, get some help and stop blindly buying games if that's the case. save your autismbux for a good cause, get involved in stocks or something.

also I use my disqus account every few weeks, that fakcot guy hasn't used his in a year. Really, get it together and stop being such a fanboy it's just a sad look.

also consider getting new reaction images if you're going to be a reaction autist, you're practically avatarfagging with how much you recycle.

Stay mad Nichecuck

I'll be a good sport and actually reply to your fucking shit, because you're an irredeemable autist.
You mean shitting on NuDoom for the Switch because it was NuDoom while fucking shills praised it for being on the Switch and running like shit while defending Mario Odyssey?
Yeah, lots of console war shittery from my part there, thread got derailed though, I deserved the ban for being offtopic, it's still not console wars and you still helped a shitton to derail the thread.
I have never started console wars, that's all you.

*While I defended Odyssey

And least we forget, fellating Marks cock and DMing him everytime you don't see your way.
That's a great one as well

I really hope Middair delivers

likewise, I know guys working on it and they've been big fans of tribes for a long time. We used to play Tribes 2/next in highschool. I'm not sure if it'll be a success but I really hope it is.

this incoherent rambling tells me I really struck a nerve. also I've been doing it since 2013 with my quake modding > doom modding threads :^) Really, get some help. You're a mess.

Sure thing bud
Funny

notice how I didn't say this, but have been making topics like that since then. This is why I call you Jewish, you can't go a single post without strawmanning and/or lying. Consider behaving a little better, your schtick of being 200% mad at all times is getting pretty old.

as for knowing midair devs by virtue of growing up with them, jelly? :^)

Why should I give a fuck about cuckchan?
You haven't made a a single thread about that here.
Where's the strawman?
Where are the lies?
You simply implied something that could be interpreted in various ways.
This coming from the shitter that got buttblasted by a Redditor
Nice source, tell me, what more can you pull out of your ass?

You don't need a bumplock, you need a bullet to the head.

I have, but I don't think you were around in 2014. I've been making threads discussing new quakejam maps for a long time.

so you interpret it in the dumbest way possible.
A real testament to your intellect

source for a friendship? what?

That's nice
But did you read the thread?

Nope, and if they were then they were promptly ignored/deleted/dubs bombed to death.
October, I was here for Superbus threads, Atelier Generals, SupCom FAF generals, user moderation via dubs and yet saw none of your shit.
Who?
I've made several threads and generals more relevant and yet feel no need to attention whore about it
You stated you posted the threads in 2013 and I value your word as much as a cuckhamner who states he's an oldfag, so assuming you were pretedning to post here since 2013 not as far fetched as you're trying to make it look.

Keep that fallacious ad hominem coming though.
Yeah, because it's extremely hard to message or IM someone and screencap.

What are you going to pull out of your ass next?
The buttplug you used to attenuate the pain of Gametards Reddit tier antics of sucking Gabes cock?

Why do people still respond to that retarded sonygger

(fukken checked)

The fuck is this?

roblox

When I was a teenager "arena" mode was a mod to an actual game. Sure we had to buy Quake, but then we got Threewave CTF, Team Fotress, Rocket/Clan Arena, etc.

Wouldn't it be great if a bunch of unknown people released an actually fun and modifiable game using new programming techniques and obscure hardware features? All these new "games"… they just hire trannies/furries/faggots to provide artwork for what is essentially a Quake mod.

The only game mod I've seen that became a good (yes, I know arguably) stand-alone series was Desert Combat.

CS, DoD, Eve of Destruction, Project Reality, plenty of other examples, most just aren't marketed as "this used to be a mod of another game"

Counter Strike fucking sucked and still does, and isn't Project Reality still just a BF2 mod? If Project is now it's own game then yeah I would call it a good mod-originated game.

That's part of my point. All these shitter arenas are glorified mods that no one would buy if they knew the truth: that they could have had the best of both worlds in the form of an actually good core game with the benefits of player mods for added value.

I would even argue ASSFAGGOTS is the same exact shit. It's just a shitty fucking Warcraft 3 mod missing the actual fucking game part. Some people like to eat shit; thankfully I'm not one of them.

Not really it systems were pretty unique even if the shooting wasn't quality stuff.
It's standalone now and Squad exists
That's true all popular multiplayer games were based on singleplayer systems with multiplayer at the side with the exception of Battlefield and Destiny and even then Battlefield was extensively played with bots and Density is mostly played in PVE