Do MMOs other than World of Warcraft still exist, or did Blizzard successfully kill them all?

You have to go back

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Suicide is the answer for you

Define exist. I still play Anarchy Online, and even though thye've lost a shitton of players (So many that they're down to just one server), there are still enough people for it to be fun to play. It used to be the kind of MMO where you couldn't do jack shit alone, too. Now they've been introducing ways to progress without a team since for the last couple of years finding a team at low levels has been tough.

Is this waifu sim any good?

Says the guy who unironically plays and defends modern MMOs
You have to go back

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It's my pleasure to inform you I have posted without saging to spite you.

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Second Life

What would a new MMO have to do to catch people's attention? What could it do?

Dragon Slayer 2 just released yesterday.

is right

I'll never understand why you guys are so asspained that people don't like a feature of your game.

Fuck off.

i can't understand why, they're both formulaic repetitive pieces of shit with clunky combat that we've seen for years. The only difference is that one panders heavily to weeaboos and the other has a BIG franchise name behind it while also partially pandering to weeaboos.

the only logical explanation i could find, is that after 2007 the player base began changing drastically, its been 10 years, now going into the 11th year of the popularization of "nerd culture", and the gradual change has pretty much replaced the old fanbase entirely. to the point companies can rake in the cash by simply making more of the same flavorless grey mush they've been doing for nearly 2 decades.

yeah, i remember the times when doing a quest implied asking other people for directions, or even help defeating a strong enemy, instead now its just follow the wiki until you've done everything, DO YOU FEEL ACHIEVED YET???

I think this is the one where gold selling is so bad that you can't chat in public channels because of all the gold spam.

How good is Tree of Savior and Uncharted Waters Online? I've had some interest in these two titles.

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I played TOS and it's kinda shit.
2D heads contrast with 3D bodies too much, and combat is straight outta Ragnarok Online if a bit modernized.

Tree of Savior is bad, and is littered with terrible design choices. As an RO veteran i really wanted to like the game but it just has too many issues; and i gave the game an actual shot.

Haven't kept up with it in quite some time however, but i know its still about the same.

ToS is a time wasting game. There's nothing to do other than kill easy stuff and make more money.

What about UWO?

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ever since release m8

The Elder Scrolls Online

HOLY SHIT I FUCKING HATE YOU, KILL YOURSELF
GET THE FUCK OFF MY BOARD YOU TREMENDOUS FAGGOT

Oh, and I forgot one:

No. At least we have Holla Forumsscape then

Play on uorenaissance faggot. Or project 1999. Fuck off.

this, or ultima online endless comes out soon if you're starve for nu-ultima online content.

There isnt any gold selling in BDO anymore since players cant trade anything of value

Only do this if you didn't play the games in their heyday.

now it's an online singleplayer game.

MMO's don't exist as most are SP games with other people running around them.

Other MMOs exist, but none of them are good. If anything, WoW boosted the numbers for a lot of other MMOs because WoW breathed new life and interest into the genre. Now FF XIV stands at the top of the heap because WoW is old and stale.

The entire MMO genre in a nutshell.

This shit right here. Especially Everquest 2 and Star Wars Galaxies. The moment those two games tried to imitate WoW, their already dwindling fanbases left for good.

Then I guess there's shitty gook games like but Goddamn that game is bad.

I think eventually, we're going to step away from the MMO genre as a whole, and more and more developers will pull away from selling games as products, but instead games as services. So every game will eventually just happen to also be an MMO atop of the game it's also intending to be. In short, we're going to see more shit like GTA:O for every game across the board.

Buckle up, kids.

Could you make a mmo just about waiting in line?
Thousands of people waiting in line for a train gain random rpg powers when the world suddenly shifts with some turning into monsters or whatever and have to group vie for better place in line.
When the end of the line is finally reached the players rightfully receive death because the journey was the destination GOTY

those are the gladiator charges and slash attack, man i miss lineage 2

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Isn't it still dead?

There's some old 2d mmo called Trickster online. The visuals and the soundtrack is pretty good, the gameplay itself is nothing spectacular though. I wanna say Emil chronicles online for having similarities to Ragnarok online but the main servers are dead and the only english private server does not even have all the skills functioning properly. The only things going for that server are the customizable faces and hair and how every cash shop roulette is free through ingame means with no real cash alternative. Other than that it is a weeb mmo with weeb visuals, collabs with a nice soundtrack and a wide selection of classes. I even saw Di Gi Charat ingame in a town

DCUO is still going, and it's lots of fun if you have patience and not get trapped into being microtransactioned to death. Though I think that every player there is silently on the edge of their seats waiting to ditch it for a new, better superhero MMO.

I'm having fun with dragons dogma online. there's very little socialization but I love the combat.

I've played UWO but I hardly scratched the surface of the game. It's pretty deep I don't know if I would be wrong in saying it's sort of a nautical EVE online and it has a loyal community. Overall it's pretty comfy and if you like the historical setting you should give it a try.

Dofus
Oldschool Runescape
MapleStory private servers

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the only thing that can save something from being "figured out" is having procedurally generated content user, and you know that Holla Forums doesn't like ideas like that because mineautism and such used it :^)

Monkey Madness 2 tho

They do exist OP, you're just not allowed to talk about them.

Blizzard sabotaged alot of MMO projects they saw as competition and over time other MMO projects took a good chunk of their players

FF14 is the second largest and it's doing very well. ESO is 3rd and it's also healthy. BDO seems to be somewhat popular. Anything else probably has less than 100k players.

Runescape's the best its been in the past 5 years, starting to challenge pre-EOC numbers, despite the fact that no sane person should be playing that pile of garbage in (((2018))).

so does eve

That's because it's made by the director behind Ragnarok.

The magic that made Runescape fun is long gone. Nobody makes games for the love of making games anymore. It's all about microtransactions, virtue signaling fag pride events that the community doesn't want, and trying to stay relevant by copycatting the bigger MMOs and ruining your combat system. OSRS was fun for a bit, but with literal fag mods eroding the game from the inside it's only a matter of time before Jagex takes Runescape in the wrong direction. Again.

I'm just gonna level too 50 and call it quits.

Gw2 is garbage you turbo tranny nigger

EVE:ONLINE, motherfuckers!
It went free to play for all entry level ships and skills, which has added a massive pop boost, and bolstered the ranks of most corps with fresh cannon fodder recruits. Besides it's never ending autism that appears to be too nuch for Holla Forums even, it is still kicking.

If you want to play a social game for ancaps then play EVE.

no thanks, i don't want to play space goon simulator

EvE is large enouth to not be a goon.

FFXIV had a chance but they shit the bed with Stormblood. ARR showed us that they could do something with the game and Heavensward was it's height but SB showed us their true form. Turns out they just want your shekels while doing as little as they can.

In game housing and marriage should have been the first call. Also any MMO that charges for server transfers is not to be trusted.

didnt they get shrekt and half of them quit?

Motherfucking inafter and muh. That was half the god damn game's charm right there, dashed away for some lazy fucks. OSRS should've stopped at 2006.

I get that the autism spectrum is just rife with stupid overly complicated faff, but let's find something a little bit better to spend free time on.

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Was or stil am kinda looking for a solid comfy MMO but this thread isn't really bringing any hope to find any.

poor things

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Lord of the Rings Online

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Jagex couldn't let that game go a year without starting to fuck it up, and it's only gotten worse since then. I wouldn't re-sub unless they re-released OSRS and didn't update it. Even then they'd find a way to screw it up.

This sums it up nicely.

'tis but a joke user, calm your autism.

2007? Isn't that a bit too old for new guys to start?

I still play RS3, but I don't play as much as I used to. I ran out of content to do.

Monkey Madness 2 is just bootleg While Guthix Sleeps, and you know it.

It's still fairly active and constantly updating, just recently released Mordor as an expansion pack, and added High Elves as a separate race from the regular elves.

Oh, they EXIST; fuckin' Ragnarok Online 2 is still up and running, for god's sake; it's just most MMOs are dead outside of the initial rush of people getting into and subsequently out of the game. You really want an MMO, you wait for some game to release a new server or an anticipated fanserver to bust open, and you'll see people actually playing for a few months until they get sick of shit again. That, or maybe find an anime ERP group and rape each other in a different game every month.

To be fair the event was forced on the community because a faggot mod needed to feel accepted. It ended with people literally becoming the KKK and shutting down the event

yes
they even lost to an RP Corp in a battle. The only reason they won before was sheer numbers.

MMOs have always been shit. Good riddance.

Play MUDs instead.

The fact that even the gate of the world version looked slightly better than the current version tells alot about the game and even then they fucked it up completely.

I think for the most part people are waiting for something new to hopefully come up. That or someone to run a new Wurm serb

I think we're going to start seeing a trickle of MMO's with devs that don't have aspirations to be the next World of Warcraft. Nothing wrong with wanting to be a successful game, mind you, but thinking you're going to be the next big thing and wringing out money from publishers will end up leaving them mainly in control, and seeing the average mmo cycle repeated.

By lowering expectations of success to more realistic levels, and trying to maintain the community by nurturing it and staying open and receptive to them will allow for devs to try and take larger risks with mechanics for their games (hell, call them gimmicks if you want to), we'll hopefully start seeing better games because of attempts to make more meaningful gameplay.

You'll probably have to dig for them though, considering we're still seeing plenty of pay to win at this point and it's only crashing and burning in the AAA sector (it's fucking up MMOs too, obviously, but devs and publishers will take the idiots spending money as clear sign 's of success and not stop).

Im waiting for Age of Wushu 2 and praying that it wont become as cancerous as the first one

Gimme some pink text on PSO2

ha ha ha ha ha

Every cloud has a silver lining

Oh yeah, let me clarify: I just log in on F2P to mess with people. That's the only way to have fun in the game any more

I play Elder Scrolls Online to waste time with one of my friends but I'm not sure I'd call it a "good" MMO. It's… decent, playable, occasionally fun. Nothing like my favourites: I miss City of Heroes and Firefall, both dead to faggotry. There is also the first Guild Wars, but no one will play it with me and I'm tired of playing games alone.

You're allowed to talk about Guild Wars user. It's just the trash sequel nobody likes.

How much of those are unique users as opposed to multiboxers though? I mean can we confirm that even half of those are uniques?

goons control EvE as much as Russian (who control the drone region)

so no

lol fucking retard, goons are weak shit fags nowadays.

What the fuck is a "goon"?

Is it the latest new buzzword meme?

A Something Awful user.
Weebs call anyone that doesn't like anime a goon because it's cool to them.

hownew.ru

Jesus I didn't think there was anyone that young here.

no, it's because goons are like jews. you pull the curtain away and the entire facade they are building disappears. weebs don't exist, goon.

And chads/normalfags call people weeb because they think people should only like Madden, staceys, or have objectivly shit taste.

Truth be told unless you were around during 2005 and paid a lot of attention to obscure forums it's pretty reasonable not to know them, or at least not know the term goon. SA has been pretty irrelevant since the 2010s.

as a board, but goons are infiltrators in pretty much every internet community. A lot of the western game industries problems can be traced back to goons.

Prove it.
What problems, exactly?

true ..kind off

here is for you knowledge

stop playing oldfag. you are ridiculous

do it for me

why are we here again? something about an event in the games industry or something

Wew lad.

So no proof or evidence of the Something Awful web forum (which is public to read) somehow infiltrating in complete agreement or unison other web forums and a entire fucking industry. Alright.

goon trying to slide

I rarely play anymore. The culture changes so fast after twelve or so years you can't help but feel old.

Rift?

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Old Runescape was the only MMO I've ever had fun with, and it pisses me off that I was too young back then to properly appreciate it

Yes it is

Nice argument faggot.

It is how you act, faggot.

did you post that webm cause of Ray of Hope?
that mod probably won't come out for another 3 years and will probably be littered with hackers

The only MMO Blizzard successfully killed was World of Warcraft.

calm down sperg

I was going to say that Tera is doing pretty well cause a few of my normie friends play it occasionally, but holy hell I wasn't it expecting it to be this bad. Sure it has it's own launcher outside of Steam, but how many people actually use it? I think that's the highest F2P MMO on Steam, but I'm not sure what the competition is.
Black Desert has the most concurrents, but I have like 5 people on my friends list that just auto-fish, so I'm guessing that's where most of those are coming from.

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There was a bug that people could give you viruses through in game chat. It got so bad that they turned off all in game chat except for guild

No. There are no MMOs after NCSoft murdered City of Heroes.

I guess there are no orcs nor uruks playable, right?

Anyway, in which age is set the game?

Let me hold on to this single shred of hope user, is that so much to ask?

Goons are primary Burgers
Chans contain a lot of Eurofags and Slavs

the market is open to a mmorpgs right now.
WoW it is just shit let it die people
FFXIV basically a better less expensive wow which overall better everything.
GW2 casual gold grinding simulator, raids are not hard but players in this game are shit so that raises the difficulty.
BDO gaining some traction again I mean i jumped back into finding it to be nice Grinding sim.
outside of those few nothing really seems to spark out right now

Asheron's Call emulation is a thing now. Remind me why I would run a WoW server when I can now run my own AC1 Darktide?

bitch, they never could trade anything other than potions and food which become locked and can't even be banked.
t. faggot who's been playing since release

I've been enjoying black desert online atm.

Not really, it still has lots of new people joining esp. since Mordor.

Orcs and Uruks actually are playable, albeit limited to the 2 PvP zones (and they have their own race specific classes), you can also be a spider or warg in those zones.
Late 3rd, it's currently up to the point in the story where Frodo destroys the ring and player characters are in Mordor. It is set to eventually progress into the 4th although there is still post-Mordor content coming before that (updates, Northern Mirkwood and Dale-lands and Erebor).
– Sage Advice Line –
If you're a Lord of the Rings nerd amicable to U.S timezones and try the game out, hit up the Landroval server because it's a chill autist's paradise full of lorefags that know their Tolkien.

But can you create orc characters or you only get the skin for PVP crap and act like a mob?

Didn't they remove this shit?

Goons are Burger edgelord culture personified.

You actually create an orc character, it's PvP-specific (or PvMP as in player-vs-monster-player as they call it here) but you are actually an orc (if you go with orc). Orcs and Uruks get 2 class options each and have their own racials and stuff. It's got a sort of RvR lite thing going in the PvP zone where there's PvE objectives and progression along with assaultable keeps and PvP fights. Free Peoples (man/elf/hobbit/dwarf) characters do similar things in them but also have the main PvE game available to them in non-PvP zones.

Ass end of the Third Age alongside the books, you start out crossing paths with Aragorn and an ill fated other ranger if men/hobbit, leaving the Vales of Anduin after a goblin attack if Beorning, dealing with evil Dwarves aligned with the iron crown if dwarf/elf, or at the Battle of Dagorlad where you are mortally wounded by the Witch King's morgul blade and slip into a 1000 year coma if High Elf. After all that is done you have a few beginning quests and after a bit in your starting region you set out to Bree and begin basically trailing slightly behind the Fellowship up until Rivendell. You are almost always somewhat behind them by a few weeks except at a few stopping points like Caras Galadhon and Helm's Deep. A big part of the game is that is it very big, it would take quite awhile to run to Rivendell from Bree on foot.
You can play as orcs, uruks, spiders, and wargs in PvMP, but only the standard melee orc is unlocked initially and all the rest of the monster player classes need to be bought, subs get access to them but only during their sub time so when that ends they lock back up again unless they were bought outside of the sub. You can grind store points rather easily by just playing the game and not spending them as soon as you get them, if you are really stubborn you can even buy quest packs and the actual expansion packs with these points eventually.

Mah nigga!
I'm a eurofag so I play on Laurelin. Considering this game is 10 years old and is about as optimized as a potato it's still fairly good with a decent if not tightknit community.
(I have a reaver on Landroval but I don't play PvMP anymore. I'm just not autistic enough to handle the constant unbalance metagame after every update)

Was this a good game?

sa goons spent the better part of a decade farming in-game currency to buy playtime cards to sell for cash, basically a convoluted money laundering / goldfarming operation.
even though they've gotten their ass kicked in recent years, eve is the one game where they're still relevant

the fuck, when did they get bikes?

Why did they not release PSO2 in the West?

MMOs are dead as a mass-market phenomenon. you're not going to see another wow.
normalfags play mobile games, and those mobile games have figured out the most efficient ways to bottle the addictive skinnerbox qualities of MMOs, including the bullshit surface-level socializing shit that drew in a lot of normalfags.

Normalfags never really played mmos, certainly not Wow. Currently, the mmo with far the most normalfags is ff14 because of all the erp and cuteness or whatever. Normalfags don't have the dedication for it. The core group that's been keeping mmos alive is the 1985-1995 generation. I think it's a generational thing.

haven't played WoW in around 4 years, but just read up on the newest expansion pack coming out and blizzard have removed pvp servers (or rather, turned them into pve servers). all servers in world of warcrap are now pve servers where no one is killable in former pvp areas on pvp servers unless the target sets THEMSELVES as flagged for pvp first. ganking = gone.
so yeah, blizz literally thought "WoW has gone to shit, fuck it in for a penny let's see how much worse we can make it".
even tho i haven't played it in forever it still makes me sad to see what was once an atleast passably fun experience dragged through mud of an unfathomable depth.

This is exceedingly true. It's gigantic, one of the bigger video game worlds actually, and certainly one of the biggest MMO worlds. It's also quite pretty, detailed and created with a lot of attention paid to lore.

Well it's 10 years since release, but the engine for the game are even older (Middle Earth Online and all that) so it's doing pretty well for all of the content they've thrown at it I think. One of the lead designers was recently (back around Mordor) talking about a 64-bit client that's been in the works and I think that would really help. I don't really have performance issues as things are though.

A 64-bit client would be great honestly.

After the disaster Destiny 2 was I heard about the 1.8 patch of The Division and gave it a reinstall

The game is 50x better than it was before, there's actual PVE events and area's and you don't even have to dare touch the Dark Zone anymore

Sure it took over two fucking years for them to listen to their fans, but they finally did and the game is…..FUN

How about that, The Division really was the Destiny killer XD

Actually I posted it because I wanted a Somber reflection of MMOs in general and figured music was the best way to go. I also wouldn't mind seeing Ray of Hope at some point, if only for an 8serb, but seeing a bunch of hacking wouldn't even surprise me at that point

The thing I'm actually hoping is decently fun is Camelot Unchained, especially because of crafting, but I'll wait til it comes out or checking the beta before being excited. That or a new Wurm Serb

Still alive, always has been and probably will be. As always the biggest downside is the small population due to no one knowing it even exists except through /vg/. Devs are very active and it recently had managing misc released. Lunars (hopefully) soon.

Since this is pretty much the MMO thread of the week, may as well ask this thought exercise again. If you are making an MMO more sandbox than themepark, how do you go about keeping people interested in the PvE? If Wurm is anything to go by, there's the bounty system for handling dangerous mobs (read:everything) for cash money, but what if you want something deeper than that? At what point does it cut off and become themepark again?

How do you define themepark? There's ways to do sandbox with coherent progression or challenge and avoid what I'd define as themepark.

Infinite character progression. Lets say that at level one, you can cast one fireball every 5 seconds, and at the conventional level cap in any other MMO, you'd cast one fireball every 2 seconds. In an infinite progression system, you could reach the point where your fireballs are akin to using the plasma rifle in Doom. But it wouldn't be just speed you could increase. You could choose to progress toward gigantic boulder-sized fireballs, scaling up in damage, size, and cast time. You could in theory get to the point where you need to wait a whole 24 hours in real life to throw your gargantuan world-shattering fireball.

Have the world be affected by mobs in a meaningful manner, thereby inducing players to engage in PVE if they want their faction to thrive and remain competitive against rivals. Pic related: the game we all want, but will never get and would be terrible if we actually got to play it. Of course, rare and expensive drops which are unique to a single type of monster (dragon's teeth, minotaur leather, leviathan tentacles, etc.) required for crafting high-level gear also helps. Not PVE, but I'd also say crafting structures and functioning towns, as well as law enforcement would go a long way to keep a game's population busy in the end stages. A dynamic of a frontier which can be conquered that lies between faction territories with open world PVP and outlaws vs. lawmen could also work.

why live

Holla Forumsscape wasn't shilled hard enough, that was its biggest mistake.

Go play some Holla Forumsscape
Holla Forumsscape is still around anons

nahhh

That's like eating something /k/ cooked for you, or trusting Holla Forums with your finances. I'd rather trust my fate to some random Chinese gold farmer than play with you guys.

We can have a good time m8, did you never play any of the gamenights? That's half/v/ but still the best RS private server on the net.

I remember playing WoW, and the way I'd get around is read the quest description to get an idea where to go. Nowadays people just install a quest helper add-on so they get an explicit waypoint.

Little late to the party here it looks like, but Holla Forums's resident Lineage 2 Classic shill user here for my obligitory post about for any bros who enjoyed the game back during the golden era and misses the hardcore gook grinder MMO experience. I'd be more than willing to help any anons get a head start, and there's constant promos running for new players to help overcome the hurdle that is a fresh character in Lineage

Blizz basically killed all of em save for Guild Wars 2 and FFXIV.

Now Blizz, ironically, is dying. Maybe with the decline of blizzard we will see more niche MMO's popping up that are actually fun?

The community isn't nearly as bad as it seems. Once again the only downside is a population of 30-50 people or less during night time. Still lots of new people joining in and if you're an ironfag you dont need to give a shit about having people to trade with anyways. At least imo its still by far one of the most impressive private servers i've played on due to just the sheer amount of content that works. Haven't found a single rs server that comes close to that 06-07 feel. OSRS certainly has lost this entirely maybe a year or two ago and is only "oldschool" in name.

What's the server?

It's the official rerelease. NCsoft licensed it to Innova EU; not a private server. It is subscription based, but that has the added bonus of keeping most huemonkeys and South American shitters off the server. I think it's like 3 euros for the first month.

Ironfaggotry is a fucking shitty idea and only has reason to exist with the G.E. Having a bunch of "hardcore" second-class players with gimped capabilities, fucking gay shit.

Decent ideas. I'd add to that and say that smaller monsters at low levels should also get unique drops. And that anytime they are being farmed to much the spawn rate decreases until they just do not spawn for some time. It would make it feel like they are being hunted to extinction and an item that people might need could not be gotten very easily. Maybe even add in a system where when there are not enough herbivores the carnivore numbers start to dwindle in tandem. Or if the carnivore number is to large than the herbivore numbers start to dwindle and have a dynamic quest happen where players are tasked to cull much of the carnivore population to sustain the herbivore/prey. Maybe even have a breeding sidejob to further expand on it. You could start seeing people trying to save endangered species or reintroducing a species to a new area from another area.

Fuck Black Desert.

MMOs were killed by MOBAs. Blizzard were smart enough to get their dick in the pie with Overwatch.

I dunno about that, user. Ironfags are one of the reasons why OSRS became RS3-lite. And by that I mean the exclusive focus on rushing to the end game to boss all day every day, because bossing is the only way Ironfags in OSRS can get materials to level other skills at a decent enough rate.

BlackRabbit25: OMG..Is this another bitch fight in the making

Given how people play MMO's nowdays, I'd say Dark Souls is a pretty good one.

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Sounds OP as fuck, I like it. Maybe you could have a stat wheel like pic related rather than just linear progression for it.

It's very possible to implement as well, perhaps not truly infinite, but capped so high that it may as well be. Morrowind for instance has its alchemy system which allows you to create potions which give you fucking god-like statistics, allowing you to cast the best spells, smash the most durable weapons and armour in one hit, leap from one end of the island to the other, and so on.

I probably should have at least defined theme park before I asked. I actually sat there for a bit and thought about what made a theme park MMO and honestly I couldn't think of a definite definition. I know that gear treadmills and gook grinders are sort of the after effects of theme parks to keep players after going through the content to reach the end point, but I think you are right that coherent progression is possible without resorting to a theme park ideal. If you have any ideas for it, feel free to say so.

Personally I figured if you were going for an open ended, village builder like Wurm, I'd say have a noticeboard for player to player quests, or if npc villagers are moving in, have them offer quests to handle the more dangerous creatures nearby, or assist in planting crops, and the like. Hell, have stores that need goods stocked, and have players move caravans, and even guard them too. But I think it's important to have those actions actually impact the game. A loss of goods from repeated player attacks would cause not only issues for villages but also might cause bounties to be caused.

But anything you have I'd actually be happy to hear

I do really enjoy the idea of abilities that grow and let you customize them your own way. There's room for it to be cheesed, but people will find a way to cheese it anyway, so Fuck it. I also like 's idea because it, like the other user pointed out, allows for plenty of customization like Morrowind' s spell and alchemy system which I also Hilariously broke, God bless fortify intelligence potions which allows for ease of player use and allows devs an easy tool to work with.

Like I said, that outlaw vs lawman idea, especially with caravans (preferably owned by players /merchant guilds) moving from capital cities to these frontier villages would allow for better player cohesion, but a sandbox mmo really does, in my opinion, need to have player actions become the mainstay, which again would work really well for your idea.

I imagine every time you put points into speed for a spell, you'd have an equal amount of negative points put into its opposite stat(s). So, on the wheel that was provided, your precision or accuracy would be hindered. I don't think it would be a cheeseable system, as every player has access to said progression. I imagine this system would be easiest to implement in a text-based game.