Goddamn the Total War thread always slide off the cracks

Why are all the topics here
>__ game series thread
>__ genre thread
Is this neogaf?

They had to migrate somewhere…

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kill yourself

I don't see any cracks

I got a new computer and I've been enjoying the Empire campaign for Total WaWa. It's pretty enjoyable aside from the fact that I mistakenly got in a war with Wood Elves and they razed one of my cities, so I might end up restarting.

Are there any must-play mods for this game? Also, has Rome II gotten any new content that makes it good yet or is it still shitty?

Steel Faith.

That looks cool, thanks.

aaaand not interested.

New game
New map

25-30 dollar campaign to give historical fans something before the next Big Historical release which likely isn't going to ocme out before Total WaWa 3.

You mean the original fanbase?

Meant to qoute

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Warhammer has both newfags and oldfags which still enjoy Historical, only a vocal minority hates Warhammer and only goes for Historical.

I still don't see the issue, they won't stop making Historical, that's their bread and butter.

Perhaps only a minority speak out about it, but the numbers are there. If you head over to the Total war Center forums there might be 20 people browsing the combined Warhammer 1 + 2 section whereas all the older games have far more people browsing. Medieval 2 and Rome almost always have hundreds browsing their subforums at once. Then look at the sales difference between the Warhammer games and the historical games and it doesn't seem to make sense. CA clearly aren't making the Warhammer games for Total War fans. I'm surprised they are even making this Britannia game since it's a waste of money compared to the cashcow Warhammer is.

It's truly a mystery why people hate a shit game stuffed to the brim with DLC.

Except this has been the norm since cuckchan?

you're just going to pirate it anyway, why pretend to care?

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Why waste the bandwidth?

I'm playing Rome 1 and I can't remember the hotkey to adjust formations.

so you can say you played a game and give a critique instead crying butt tears over something you have no stake in since you never played a game past the 90's

The new Laboratory is killing my pc. I am getting 10 fps with this many units.

Try adding more units

OP IS A FUCKING SHILL
FUCK OFF MARK THE KIKE

Almost 90K. It said 10 fps, with it was lower than 1.

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Counter sage

Absolute madman

Zombies were smashed so hard, they almost flew of the battlefield

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kek

Please help

Why does every single TW game have such a shitty morale system?
soldiers in real life didn't run away all the time for no reason, fucking garbage gane

Weird how every TW game except Attila sold better than wawa.

I'm not even sure why but attila was really bad

I've only played Shogun 2 and Warhammer, which total war games should I play?

Stop using meatshield units as your frontline

Shogun 1 was best Total War.
Since then, map movement has been retarded

I am at a loss for words.

Sorry, I meant to say cheap expendable units

Everything except for Rome, and arguably medieval 2 is trash. move on.

SHAMEFUR

Except they did.

In medieval and antiquity battles, like only 10% casualties only happen during combat, the rest happens during routing.

How to control stainless steel generals

All I want is a Total War clone with half decent enemy AI.
As long as Creative ASSembly are the only ones making this type of game they'll keep shitting the series up with progressively worse games.

The Total WaWa games have been the most fun I've had playing Total War since Medieval 2. Shogun 2, Patched Rome 2, and Attila being good games is a meme. They're janky pieces of garbage. I don't even mind paying for the DLC (aside from the blood one, but you can thank Shogun 2 for that).

Total war - Shogun 2020
You have to destroy all the american bases and kick them out then start a Glorious Nippon Empire

I mean the games after did most things better but still.

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Basically every TW strategy is to flank the rear with heavy cavalry.

The only exception being Empire where it's about mass volley fire and crossfire

Cavalry flanking can still work in Empire, you've just go to be more careful because bayonets, forming square, guns and cannon can mess with it.

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Napoo was great
eat shit ponyfags

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Titles derived from traits was fantastic, I honestly consider the lack of natural progression in later games to be one of the biggest mistakes.

You dont seem to have an issue with that in the previous games though….

how about you stop being a bitch and git gud?

about you stop being a faggot and check the fucking keys yourself?

there is a reason they are the only one, a game like is incredibly complex design and code,
they have the expertise, the knowledge and structure to keep this up
another company to compete would need real big funds, big AAA developer and publisher, which almost sure would mean shit

Map movement was done right in medieval 1

Steel Faith is the best in my opinion. It's not overly intrusive like Radious. Most of the changes make sense logically and from a lore perspective. It even adds a new "Skaven in the sewers" mechanic.

Other than that there are a lot of good QoL mods like an improved camera and tweaks to the turn times that are good to have in general.

Attila is nothing compared to Rome 2 at launch. Just compare horse archers in the two games. There is a reason the steppe tribes are considered the weakest faction in R2.

Is TW: WH worth pirating?

If you also bother looking up how to pirate mods, it's a solid maybe.

I'll take that as a no.

ARCHEAON AND KARL FOR SOUL CALIBUR

Tomb Kangs confirmed no webm because Holla Forums is being uncooperative the one I tired to post

Pirate the first game with all its dlc and see how you like it, I had fun but it's much better with mod like the rest of the series

That is not too bad of an idea actually

They are big enough to have 2 teams, one is handling the warhammer games and the other the historical ones.

MUH DIK
VAMPIRES ARE FOR FAGGOTS

Unironically this

At this point, why the fuck not?

My only complaint, from what little we've gotten from CA, about the upcoming DLC is the distinct of lack of Nagash; the guy who makes Archeon look like a pussy is both power and villainy

In all due honesty a Warhammer fighting game for either Fantasy or 40K could be really fun, having it play like SC would be the way to go.

WHY

Nagash is more of an End Times thing.
Would be like adding Sigmar to the first game.
Theres a mod that adds Nagash however, and its great.
Fuck, the whole mod adds Tomb Kings as a faction with no custom assets and its great.

I'm only expecting it after all the DLC is released.

Perhaps is that i need to git gud, but playing Warhammer with Steel Faith mod (Plus others but not gameplay changing) and even when I play imperial or similar (like Estalia), sometimes its that even when the armies are the same size, for some reason, my troops loose health fast, and when clashing, the enemies troops blob during combat, while mine just lose the clash; Doesnt help that the enemies troops cant stop moving and changing position faster than I can. Not sure if im explaining this well, butthe games is many times too chaotic, and unless I have superior numbers, even when it shouldnt matter much, in the end I get overwhelmed.

Any advise that I should get?

Well, your first problem seems to be your reliance on human melee troops- don't. The mission of a human soldier, excepting elites like greatswords, is to hold the line or support elites and heroes- the real damage dealers will be your arty, guns, and cavalry. If you have limited access or none at all then focus on getting a wizard, upgrade them with good buff abilities and at least one really good offensive spell, a good wizard can be a great support unit while also being as good as two artillery batteries.
One last thing; you should always have either your general or a hero accompanying your general that has a focus one being a badass in melee- this guy will be you big damage dealer in blob engagements and can also be used to engage enemy gens and heroes- if they can get a flying mount they will become a one man/elf/whatever storm of death.
You seem to have trouble keeping up with the AI's actions; this is something you'll just have to get good at eventually but until then I'd recommend using the slow down and pause features during battle so that you can have an easier time planning and reacting to the AI. Hope this helps you out.

Thanks for the advise. I only played before with vanilla dwarves in wawa1, that being shooty but with powerful and defensive troops; And played Lizardmen in wawa 2 plus Steel faith mod, who were melee centric with fast and also powerfull troops. So is with more squishy humans, I can see the difference. I already noted before the power of human ranged troopers, yes, but the reason that I used mostly melee troops was fear of being imbalanced, and the risk of being destroyed by melee troops form the enemy, especially in a game where the AI in general overrides you with shitload of troops. Perhaps should I do more ranged troops, right? Then it will try it.

How do I get into total war? I've had shogun 2 for 5 years but never got past the tutorial

Also that voice was perfect for the Tomb Kangs. here's hoping for my girl Khalida to appear

Shes one of the 4 Lords
The second after Settra actually
totalwar.com/blog/tomb-kings-announcement

fucking nice, she was a beast in tabletop. now i remember End Times and what happened to her and the Tomb Kings i made myself sad, fuck you Games Workshop

No Neferata though

Neferata is a Vampire, maybe a future DLC if ever, she'll probably get in eventually, mostly because CA has a massive hardon for the Vamps

So after downloading all the Fitgirl repacks of the new TW games, ive discovered after years of patches and DLC the games are now absolutely playable, and im really enjoying them, especially since i preordered Rome 2 (the first game i have preordered in years).

Think the TW games will have massive discounts this xmas sale or should i just keep using fitgirls repacks?

Most of them will, it's a steam thing. I wish I could enjoy R2 and Attila, but nothing I do can get decent frames from them

I was so burned after release, i gave Rome2 a chance since my last preorder before that was Red Orchestra 2 but now im glad i played them.

Lets hope the discounts are big.

>>>/cuckchan/

Talabecland declares war on Kislev. And I obviously I join them

You know its possibly gonna be that. If Yoda and Darth Vader were in IV, then Disney will no waste the opportunity to put more marxist propaganda in vidya. I would pay for Archaon and KarlFranz to be in the new Soul Calibur, but this is the Current Year+3.

I hope that after Tomb Kings. CA starts making dlc for fluff factions, like Tilea, Estalia & others. I dont think CA would waste the opportunity of more DLC to sell to the fans. And for Wawa 3, besides Ogre kingdoms and Chaos dwarves, it should be Cattai & Ind (Not sure about Nippon, because of to much similarity with Cattai, and if CA will be capable of also adding the Nippon islands to the map, due to too much size for the map/technical dificulties).

Besides SF, crysus faction unlocker lets you play all the subfaction of all the races. Also, in 1d4chan wiki, there are a list of recommended mods in thr warhammer TW page.

mods/EBII/text/export_buildings.txt
This is just one region description

Traveller's Log

Travelling by ship from Crete to Laconia the traveller will probably stop at the beautiful island of Kythira, birthplace of Aphrodite. This island has always been an in-between station for the ancient route to and from northwestern Crete and the Peloponnesus. Reaching the edge of the mainland, small scenic bays and coves contrast the impressive mountain masses in the background. The panorama highlights the isolation of the different parts of the Peloponnesus, divided by overlapping mountain ranges and their plateaus and valleys. Though relatively small in size, this part of Hellas has harbored many city-state cultures. Entering the bay to the north where the Eurotas meets the sea and travelling up the valley it forms, between the Taygetos to the west and Parnon to the east, the traveller reaches the glorious, unwalled (until sometime in the third century BC) city of Sparta. Perhaps not much in the way of sightseeing, it still holds something spectacular to observe: its people.

Geography

Even though the hypothesis remains unproven, it is possible that the name "Lakonia" is composed from the words "Las" and "Konos", meaning "stone" and "cone" respectively, inspired by the Taygetos' pyramidal peak. The Eurotas Valley running from north to south dominates the province. The river originates in the mountains and rolls gently to the sea. The reeds from its banks provided the material for the Spartans' beds. The mountains on either side are rough and form a natural barrier that somewhat isolates the province. Taygetos, named after Taygetis, a daughter of Atlas, has the highest peak at over 2,400 m with a permanent snowcap and a very clear atmosphere that made it ideal for astronomic observation. In fact, Anaximandros installed an observatory there replete with devices used to measure stellar and planetary movement, equinoxes and solstices, according to Cicero and Diogenis Laertios. Parnon is no small mountain: at just under 2,000 m, it separates Lakonike from Arcadia. Stone and sunlight are ever present in Lakonike and against this background, olive trees, vineyards, orange and other fruit trees complete the scene of the Spartan countryside.

People, Society, and Government

No Dorian is more Doric than the Spartans. That, perhaps, is all that needs to be said about the Spartan stock. And this highly unusual culture survived for the better part of three centuries, its strictures enforced by law.

The stratified Spartan society had enslaves land-workers, called helots, at the bottom, whose life was worth only as much as the care they took of their lords' land and other needs. Notably, helots belonged to the State, not to individual Spartans. The second social layer up was that of the perioikoi. They were free and somewhat independent, living in settlements around the city itself. They were craftsmen and traders and as such were the only ones that were allowed to travel outside Lakedaimonian dominion. In war, they fought as hoplites, although they were not up to the standard of discipline and effectiveness of the core Spartan army. That core consisted of Spartan full citizens, the Homoioi. These were born into their class, but could lose their rights for cowardice in battle or misconduct. They also received especially brave soldiers from lower classes into their numbers, although these recruits would usually have to go through the Spartan Agoge first. The general assembly of the Homoioi was the Apella, which voted by acclamation on issues such as campaign leaders or motions put forth by the Kings or the elders. While many details on its function are not clear, its most important task perhaps was electing the five Ephoroi responsible for maintaining public order and general oversight of Lykourgos' laws. The Ephoroi served for one year at a time. They had the right to remain seated in the presence of the Kings, whom they also kept an eye on for any digressions. Even so, they were not all-powerful. They could not get re-elected and they could be judged by the next Ephoroi even to receive the death penalty on extreme occasions. The Apella also awarded individuals with lifelong membership of the Gerousia or the Senate. It was comprised of twenty-eight men, plus the two Kings, giving a total of thirty. Its responsibilities were mostly legislative and occasionally judicial. The dual kingship formed the top of the Spartan pyramid of power and predated Lykourgos' reforms. It provided a balance between the two oldest and most powerful families in Sparta, the Agiades and the Euripontides.

Perhaps the most important institution of the Spartan state was the Agoge. The fundamental principle for any army is discipline. And discipline is an acquired skill. It takes time and training. In Sparta, boys were passed over to the State at the age of seven and were no longer the responsibility of their parents. Until their twentieth year they were rigorously trained, both physically and mentally. From the age of thirteen, they were taught to fight, survive and face adverse weather conditions. They ate the Melanas Zomos, or black broth, made of pork, salt, blood and vinegar. They were also encouraged to steal for food and were only punished when caught in the act - not for stealing, but for having been caught. They slept on reeds from the banks of the Eurotas and faced all kinds of brutality that makes for the terrible face of war, such as the Diamastigosis, a test of endurance and perseverance for the body and the spirit. They were also taught to be brief and concise in their words. This skill was called "lakonizein". They were also taught to scorn music, art and money; trade and the arts had flourished prior to the reforms. Initially, there was no currency, and no need for it either, since the State provided for everything. Later on, Spartan coins were made of iron and were disproportionately heavy, so that when a lot of money was accumulated it would require a wagon to move it, inevitably drawing attention.

Another institution of sorts was the Crypteia. Probably introduced by Lykourgos, the Crypteia took place once every year. Young Spartans would be unleashed onto the countryside with the objective of killing helots. The Spartans would be unarmed or lightly armed and were to seek out the strongest among the helots. This institution introduced the younger Homoioi to bloodshed, which they had perhaps experienced during the Agoge, but also kept the helot population in check, since estimates put it at about twenty times that of the Homoioi.

The Spartans hoped to maintain their way of life by insulating their city from aliens. Strangers were only allowed to stay in the city with special permission. This was called "Xenilasia", and it was not unique to Sparta; it has also been noted among Cretan Dorians. Women in Sparta enjoyed special priviliges, when compared to other cities. They trained in sports so they might be strong and healthy and bear strong and healthy offspring. Young women were allowed to walk where they pleased unveiled so that suitors could observe their beauty. Not so, married women, who had to wear a veil at all times and offer their beauty only to their husbands. On that note, young husbands were not allowed to stay with their wives during the day and stormed their own bedrooms at night to enjoy their wives. This kept their passion fresh. On the other hand, if a Spartan could not produce any offspring it was not shameful to ask a fellow Spartan to impregnate his wife so that he, too, might have sons to offer Sparta.

The Spartans were very religious. All statues and images of gods more often than not depicted them armed so that men would not go before them unarmed. They sacrificed to Heros before battle and especially revered Heracles and, quite unexpectedly, Athena, their arch-rival city's patron. Athena Optilletis got her epithet from an unfortunate event in her temple, during which Lykourgos, trying to implement his reforms, nearly lost an eye when stricken by a rich man who stood to lose his wealth. He retained his vision and attributed his fortune to the goddess ("optilos" is a Doric word for eye). Later on, the rich man in question was handed over by the assembly to Lykourgos to kill him if he so saw fit. Lykourgos took him into his household and overwhelmed him by means of his virtue to the point that he became Lykourgos' greatest admirer.
History

Neolithic ceramic evidence near the location of Sparta is the earliest evidence we have of human habitation of this southernmost part of the Peloponnesus. While the volume of archaeological evidence from the earliest years of settlement is somewhat limited, the amount of mythology dealing with the period is not. The Lakedaemonians had a rich aetiology for their kingly lineage. A short version of the Laconic age of myth has Las, one the first men created from stones thrown by Deucalion and Pyrra after the Cataclysm, settling in the location of what was to be Sparta, but was then called Las. In the Dorian dialect, "Las" means "stone". In the earlier Pelasgean dialect it can be interpreted to mean "heavenly spirit". At any rate, Las was killed by Achilles when the latter was visiting Sparta as Helen's suitor. So here the line continues with Menelaos, though Las's position is not clarified in this version of the myth and the lengthy catalogue of mythic kings preceding Menelaos is not incorporated.

The longer version begins with Lelex as the first indigenous king of Sparta, who, interestingly enough, was also considered primogenitor of the Messenians. His dynasty, the Lelegides, is short with a total of three kings: himself; Mylis, inventor of the mill; and Eurotas, who gave his name to the river. Eurotas was survived by no son, but had a daughter named Sparta. Sparta married Lakedaemon, a son of Zeus and Taygetis, daughter of Atlas the Titan. Thus began the second dynasty and a new name was given the land: Lacedaemonia. Lakedaemon was succeded by Amyklas, founder of the Amykles settlement, who had three sons. Of these, Argalos became king first and Kynortas after him. Then Perieres and after him Oibalos who begat Ikarios (Penelope's father), Tyndareos (Helen and Clytemnestra's father) and Arnes (mother of Boeotos). In this generation, the pre-Dorian familial connection of what is now the Ionian Islands, Boeotia and the Peloponnesus, is established. Oibalos had another son named Ippokoon (the horse whisperer) who took the throne and exiled his brothers. An invasion mounted by Herakles, but aborted after his injury, is placed at this point in the timeline. A second invasion assisted by the Arcadian Argonaut Kefeus was successful; an echo of the first Dorian incursions. Ippokoon and his offspring were killed and Tyndareos became king, but had no sons. Here ended the second pre-Dorian dynasty. Menelaos married Helen, after her brothers the Dioskouroi took turns climbing Olympos and plunging into Hades, and so became King in Sparta, introducing the dynasty of the Atreides. This is where myth touches history, as in all probability King Atreus, Menelaos's father, is the Atarisiyas mentioned in the Hittite royal archives. The Spartan line of the Atreides mirrors the troubled time of the successive Dorian invasions into the realm of the Mycenaean world (also referred to as the invasion of the Herakleidae). Menelaos was one of the few lucky survivors both of the Trojan War and the nostos, the return trip home, the other prominent survivors being Odysseas and Nestor. Still, he had no sons and his daughter Hermione was married to his nephew Orestis. Orestis ruled over Argos, Mycenae and Lakonia. His son Tisamenos was the last king of the dynasty; he died fighting the Dorian invaders after being confined to Amykles. Of the Dorian Herakleidae, Aristodemos took Lakonia as his own. When he died his sons were not of age to rule, so his brother-in-law Thyras became steward. Meanwhile he colonised the island Kalliste ("most beautiful") which he named after himself, Thyra (Santorini). It is at this point that the narrative starts to move from mythology into history.

Aristodemos's sons, who, according to some accounts were twins (and they had to be to provide equality to the two lines of kings), were Eurysthenes of the Agiades ("leaders") and Prokles of the Eurypontides ("wide sea"). They became kings to rule jointly. Counting the names of the kings and allowing for an average time of ruling, places the first joint kingship around the 800s BC. This institution was unique, but it is not attributed to Lykourgos' reforms as other institutions particular to Sparta are. Assuming that he was a historical figure - and many ancient sources agreed that he was, not least of which was Aristotle - Lykourgos was younger brother to a deceased king and guardian of his nephew, Harilaos Eyropontides or Leovotos Agiades. This would place him later in the late 7th century, a time which had been preceded by a period of instability for Sparta, something which might explain the need for reform. At any rate, credited with bringing the Spartans out of the darkness and into the light (of justice) as his name suggests, he is far more appealing as a historic person that entered the realm of myth. It was Lykourgos that transformed Sparta into the unique state that was to survive with little change for centuries. Sparta was destined to enjoy eternal glory and be defined by war.

Messenian Wars: A state of recurring animosity existed between Sparta and its neighbours, a common occurrence with Hellenic states. Messena, Tegea, Sikion and Argos were all in an on-and-off state of war with Sparta. However, the conflicts that really changed the balance of power in the Peloponnesus and propelled Sparta to regional power status were the First and Second Messenian Wars. The First War was inconclusive, but in the Second, the Spartans managed to defeat the Messenians, who were led by the energetic (though perhaps mythical) Aristomenes for the better part of fifteen years. The remnants of the Messenians were forced to take refuge in the fortified city of Eira and hold out for a few more years. However, they were unable either to turn the tide or to secure a place in the post-defeat environment, so they ended up fleeing to Epeiros and Sicily at Zagle, which later was renamed Messena. Aristomenes is said to have fled to Rhodes.

The newly conquered lands and the accompanying slaves perhaps provided the Spartan citizens with such means of sustenance as were required in order for them to remain practically lifelong soldiers in the service of the state. It is not inconceivable that this thread of events led to the reforms of Lykourgos, especially since the 8th and 7th centuries BC are considered a tumultuous period of Spartan history. After this conquest, Sparta initially tried to expand to the north with mixed results that dictated a change of strategy in favour of political means rather than military. After subduing Tegea and, perhaps more importantly, Argos, Sparta was manifestly not only the strongest power in the Peloponnesus, but she was also recognised as such in Hellas. To that effect there was little to no debate when Sparta was granted pan-Hellenic leadership of both land and naval forces in the landmark conflict that followed: viz., the Persian Wars.

In the meantime, an interesting incident occurred that led to a notable change in Spartan law and planted the seed for Hellenic civil war on a scale of unprecedented magnitude at that time (although one that would become all too familiar in centuries to come). While Sparta was trying to expand its sphere of influence beyond the Isthmos, it found a pretext to interfere in Athenian politics, and did so not too subtly. A Spartan contingent under King Kleomenes I marched to Attica in support of a political faction in 510 BC. This led to the exile of "father of democracy" Kleisthenes, but later also to the expulsion of Kleomenes from the city. While a full-scale invasion under both Spartan kings and with the assistance of Peloponnesian allies was brewing, the plan fell through and the coalition began to unravel when Corinthos refused to be a part of it and King Dimaratos also decided to abort and return to Lakedaimona. This case of royal discord led to a law stipulating that only one Spartan king would be allowed to campaign beyond the border.

Persian Wars: By this time (and indeed quite some time before) the Spartan army had made its reputation for superiority, if not outright invincibility in Hellas. In 492 BC the Great King Darius advanced victorious through Thrace and Makedonia before returning home. In 490 BC a Persian fleet crossed the Aegean before burning Eretria to the ground and landed at Marathon only to be soundly defeated and forced to return whence it came. Both these operations took place before any pan-Hellenic resistance could be organised, so the opportunity was not given for Spartan leadership. In 480 BC, however, a vast army poured into Thessaly and bottlenecked at Thermopylae (a site of mixed results for attacker and defender both before and since) in the face of a small Spartan-led coalition. Part of the defenders fled when they learned that the Persians had found their way around their position. Others, including all 300 Spartans but one (or so tradition would have it), stood their ground and were slain to a man, King Leonidas I with them. The 300 were called "Hippeis" though they always fought on foot, perhaps a relic of old times; just as the Dioskouroi, considered Spartan progenitors, are always depicted on horses, an image reminiscent of an oligarch class wealthy enough to support horses.

Following the battle, the Persians advanced past a neutral Thebes and flooded into Attica. Athens, mostly defenceless, was set alight and the Spartans, in a characteristically self-serving manner, began fortifying the Isthmos. The Athenians did it again albeit under nominal Spartan leadership and effectively trashed Persian plans for a thorough conquest of Hellas. During the next campaigning season the combined Hellenic forces under Spartan leadership counterattacked in Boetia and destroyed the remaining Persian forces near Plataea, killing in the process their leader Mardonius, a prince and son-in-law of Xerxes. A full complement of Spartan hoplites was present that day, as opposed to the royal bodyguard of Leonidas I, which was limited to 300 men. The mostly Athenian hoplites faced Theban formations on their side of the battlefield, but it was the Spartan-heavy hoplite phalanx that led an opportune yet unplanned charge which routed the Persians. Casualties were very heavy on the Persian side. Among the Spartan dead was the survivor of Thermopylae redeemed from shame, but not praiseworthy either, since he charged the enemy line in an un-Spartan frenzy. Another Spartan-led success was the Battle of Mycale, which was rather noteworthy, as naval warfare put Spartans out of their element. It resulted in the destruction of the Persian fleet and thus put an end to the second Persian invasion.

Peloponnesian War: The Peloponnesian War (431-404 BC) ravaged irreparably the Hellenic world from Sicily to the Euxinos Pontos and let the Persians meddle in Hellenic affairs with their overwhelming wealth. It is roughly divided into three stages and the immediate result was a decisive, but particularly short-lived Spartan victory. King Archidamos who had led his people out of their city just prior to the major earthquake of 464 BC, and had also led them against the Helots and Perioikoi, was a cautious and reasonable man. He had discussed options with Perikles as his guest in Athens and even faced scrutiny back home because of his interest in negotiation. In the end he invaded Attica and besieged Athens in a very predictable but reasonable move, in typical Spartan fashion. The Athenians declined battle, and under Perikles's guidance counterattacked using their naval and economic superiority. During these operations a Spartan detachment surrendered after being cut off, an unprecedented event of extraordinary importance. In Athens a typhoid plague claimed many lives including Perikles's. When a truce was agreed upon in 421 BC Athens could claim victory, if only marginally, since the Spartans who had attacked first had achieved very little and a return to status quo ante bellum was accepted.

During the second stage of 415-413 BC the Athenians were convinced by the multi-talented and charismatic Alcibiades to mount a campaign in Sicily to intervene in a conflict between two cities there, Egesta and Selinounda. Underneath the surface, the objective was to expand the Athenian sphere of influence to the west and deprive the Spartans and their allies of the west's resources. Three leaders were chosen from all political factions, Alcibiades among them. After the fleet sailed, however, Alcibiades was accused of mutilating the Hermaic stelae during a drunken stupor (or rage). These were road signs posted at corners and squares, nothing too important except that they featured the face of a major god. Blown out of proportion in the face of public discontent, the matter warranted swift justice, and Alcibiades was recalled immediately to stand trial. Whether this was provocation or actually his doing has not been determined, but at any rate he then defected to Sparta fearing for his life (and with good reason). He was condemned in absentia. What was not evident at the time was that the Athenians were condemning themselves. Alcibiades adapted remarkably well and fast. This new "Spartan" gave a much needed touch of genius to the otherwise mundane Spartan strategic manoeuvring, both in the west and the mainland. He suggested that Gylippos, a Spartan ex-commander then living in Magna Grecia, be put in charge of defending Syracuse and Sicily. He also suggested that Dekeleia in Attica be fortified so that Athens would only be able to resupply by sea. Gylippos was able to turn the tide in Sicily mostly relying on counter-investment efforts, racing against time given the Athenian fortifications aimed at isolating Syracuse. Both armies ceaselessly fought, harassed, built and destroyed, until Gylippos was able to use part of the Athenian efforts to his advantage. The Athenian expeditionary force found itself surrounded by land. When the fleet was also defeated, they surrendered. The commanders were executed and the rest died in the mines in terrible conditions. This was a terrible blow for Athens.

During the third phase of 413-404 BC the Spartan endeavours were too grand for their means so they turned to the Persians for financial aid. Athens was in panic, even changing its form of government to an oligarchy in 411 BC for a year and a half. It was Alcibiades, who in the meantime had taken refuge in the Persian court in Asia Minor, who advised the Persians to keep the war going. A Spartan fleet was built with Persian funds and the theatre of operations moved to the northern Aegean and the Hellespont. Perhaps Alcibiades hoped that if Athens were hard pressed the city would pardon and summon him. And it did.

Alcibiades returned to Athens and took command of the fleet. The Athenians won a victory in Abydos in 411 BC and when the Spartans regrouped, a combined land and sea engagement in Kyzikos in 410 BC. The Athenian fleet destroyed the Spartan fleet using a stratagem of Alcibiades', and the army under Hares defeated the Persians on land. A report back to Sparta read: "The ships are destroyed. Mindaros (the commander) is dead. The men are starving. We know not what to do." Democracy was restored in Athens. In 407 BC the Spartans under Lysandros defeated the Athenians with a newly rebuilt fleet using Persian gold near Samos, and the Athenians blamed Alcibiades who, decided to go into exile. Konon was placed in charge of the fleet, but was hard pressed by the new Spartan admiral, Lysandros's replacement, Kallikratidas, a somewhat junior commander. Konon was forced to offer battle and suffered a bitter defeat, which resulted in him being hopelessly isolated and barely able to send a message home. The Athenians mobilised all resources, even granting citizen rights to metoikoi and slaves overnight, so that crews might be available for a new fleet paid for by melting the golden statue of Nike. This makeshift fleet was trained and drilled en route and won the engagement in the Arginouses near Lesbos in 406 BC. Conditions appeared unfavorable for the Spartans, but to his deputies' advice Kallikratidas responded in typical cold laconic manner: "If I die, Sparta will be unharmed. If I shy away from battle, Sparta will be disgraced." He was right. He died, but Sparta won the war eventually. The victors, however, had their hands full. Part of the enemy fleet escaped and had to be pursued, Konon was still cut off by some 50 Spartan vessels and almost 5,000 of the fleet's crew were drowning as their commanders were trying to make up their minds. The weather cared little for their deliberations and a storm forced the fleet to abandon any survivors still at sea and take to port. Bodies were seen floating in the sea and ashore as far south as Phokaia. The psychological impact was such that after much deliberating the Athenian authorities sentenced all the generals to death and executed the six that were present in Athens, in typical Athenian fashion. The Spartans sued for peace maintaining the status quo, which was unpalatable to the Athenians since it meant that many islands would not be under their control and they now felt confident enough to finally win the war. Lysandros was back in charge of the Spartan forces, against the stipulations of the Spartan constitution. Cyrus the Younger was on friendly terms with him and provided the gold to rebuild the Spartan fleet once more. This fleet annihilated the Athenian fleet in 404 BC at Aigos Potamoi and later blockaded Athens by sea. Cut off from land and sea, the city was starved to submission and capitulated. Lysandros sent a laconic dispatch home: "Athens has fallen."

Theban (Boeotian) War: In 382 BC, on a detour during a campaign in Olynthos in Chalcidice, a Spartan force under Phoibidas destroyed the Theban acropolis, the Kadmeia, and installed a pro-Lakedaimonian faction in power. This was in clear violation of the peace agreed upon just five years before. The Thebans rebelled and war ensued, during which the Spartans unsuccessfully attacked the port of Piraeus, thus forcing the Athenians to the Theban side. The Spartans were the dominant regional power so they had the initiative, but they largely failed to achieve their goals, i.e. the complete submission of Thebes. Later, in 376 BC, they were defeated in a sea battle off of Naxos by a combined fleet lead by the Athenians and again in 374 BC in Alysia in Western Hellas. In 375 BC the Theban Sacred Band of 300 men with cavalry support was able to defeat a larger Spartan force of nearly 800 hoplites in an unexcpected battle in Tegyra, as Pelopidas, the famous Theban commander, was trying to retake Orchomenos when it was vacated of its Spartan garrison. It was a proud victory for the Thebans and one that brought prestige to the Sacred Band. The result of the aforementioned facts was that the Spartans were not able to avert the formation of the "Koino ton Boeoton" or the Second Athenian League. In 371 BC, after negotiations in Sparta, the Thebans would not surrender their consolidated position in Boeotia and the Spartans decided to invade once more, this time under Kleomvrotos I. The two armies fought at Leuctra where the phalanx in Echelon formation, invented by Epaminondas, gave the victory to the Thebans. The other great Theban general and statesman, Pelopidas, was also present and was leading the Sacred Band of 300 men. The Spartans and their allies fielded about 11,000 men, while the Thebans had nearly half that number. However, the majority of the 1,000 dead were on the Spartan side, since they were fiercely engaged by the elite and strategically hard-pressed Thebans.

These casualties were a terrible blow to the Spartans: not only to their ability to project power outside their heartland, but also to internal stability. During the winter of the following year, the Spartan King Agisilaos II launched an assault against Arcadia, which was stirring up. The Arcadians, predictably, appealed to the Thebans for help and Thebes answered the call. Epaminondas marched to Messenia, where the helots had revolted again, and fortified their capital of Messena. The Spartans mobilised their forces against the invaders and met them at the Battle of Mantinea. An uncommon occurrence was that Athens' proximity to Boeotia forced it to side with the Spartans in this particular conflict. Feigning a degree of unpreparedness, Epaminondas was able to both surprise them and effectively use the Echelon formation, which his enemies did expect him to employ, but were unable to counter under the circumstances. The Spartan front collapsed and victory went to the Thebans, albeit at the price of losing their leader Epaminondas. When his companions remarked that he left no heir behind, he replied that he was leaving behind two daughters: Leuctra and Mantineia. Two years later, Pelopidas died too, leaving the nascent Theban hegemony headless and doomed to be very short lived.

In the years that followed the Theban hegemony, Philip managed to be widely recognised as leader of the Hellenes. The Spartans had only taken part in blockading Thermopylae against him in 353 BC, but that was as far as they went, or could go. They never fought him directly. Even so, instead of a compromise, they were adamant and would not accept an overlord. Still, Philip knew better than to just invade Lakonike for the sake of pride. The Spartans were too weak to pose a threat by themselves or in a coalition (not that one was immanent anyway), but would fight fiercely in their homeland and probably to the death, taking as many of the invaders with them as possible. If anything, the Spartans could prove quite useful in the coming invasion of Asia Minor. So, prudent King Philip tried a mixture of persuasion and threat. He sent an envoy with a reasonable message: "Would you prefer I came as a friend or an enemy?" to which the Spartans replied: "Neither." Then Philip sent a new message, more a bluff than a threat: "If I invade I will raze Sparta to the ground." The Spartans coolly called his bluff. They replied: "If." Philip did not invade. Neither did Alexander after him. The Spartans would not take part in any coalition which they would not lead. Alexander later sent 300 Persian suits of armour with the inscription: "Alexander son of Philip, and the Hellenes, excluding Spartans, from the barbarians that dwell in Asia". They were not moved. But they did rebel.

In 331 BC Alexander the Great had been marching for three years in triumph through the mighty Persian Empire. King Agis III of Sparta decided it was the time for rebellion and contacted the Persians for aid and to coordinate their actions. The Macedonian regent Antipatros had just quelled a rebellion in Thrace when he received word of the rebellion brewing in the south. In a swift march that was a trademark of the military machine organised by Philip he reached Peloponnesus with 40,000 men to deal with the 22,000 of the Spartan coalition. They clashed in Megalopolis and the Spartan force was no match for the Makedones, even if it had not been outnumbered. More than 5,000 died on the Spartan side, including King Agis III, and more than 3,500 fell to the victorious Antipatros. Alexander the Great called this the Battle of Mice in contempt.

Later, in 294 BC, under Archidamos IV, Sparta tried to stop a roaming Demetrios I the Besieger, as the latter was attempting to reestablish his power base in Makedonia. A shadow of its former power, Sparta was defeated twice and there was nothing to block the way to the city itself. However, Demetrios upon receiving alarming news turned his attention to Lysimachos and Ptolemy who were counterattacking against his holdings in Asia Minor and Cyprus respectively.

In 280 BC, a force campaigning near Delpoi under Areus I was scattered and soundly defeated by the Aitolians. In 272 BC, Areus I was in Crete that still maintained links with the Doric Spartans. At that time Pyrrhos of Epeiros returned from his Italian campaign and assaulted the hastily built fortifications prepared by the king's son Akrotatos and manned (so to speak) by women and old men next to what remained of an able fighting force in the city. The invaders were repulsed and their king was killed ingloriously in Argos. In 264 BC, during the Chremonideian War, Areus I died in battle against Antigonos Gonatas. In 263 BC, his son and successor Akrotatos attacked Mantineia in Arcadia and was killed in the battle that followed against the Arcadians. His death effectively put the Spartans out of the war. In 244 BC, an Aitolian force raided through Lakonike and took many captives, as many as 50,000 according to some reports. Agis IV tried to effect reforms to remedy the many problems affecting the Spartan polity at the time. Wealth was accumulated in the hands of less than a hundred families and the Spartan citizens, the "Homoioi", numbered around 700, a far cry from the almost 10,000 at the height of Spartan power. Striking debt and land redistribution did not sit well with the ruling elite and the king was subjected to a show trial and summary execution. The son of the other king, the executed king's enemy in many ways, was Cleomenes III. In 229 BC he led an attack on Megalopolis. The Achaean League's general, Aratos, was quite famous at the time, and though he took a cautious approach against the king, he was defeated. Cleomenes III seized the political momentum offered by his victory and, leaving the Spartan citizens in the camp, took the mercenary part of his army and marched on Sparta. He took control of all power structures in Sparta and in the process killed four of the five Ephoroi and dissolved the institution. Debt was stricken and land was redistributed, allowing more people to participate in civil life and partake in military service. Sfairos, a stoic from the Bosporos and consultant of the king, was charged with reinvigorating the Lykourgian law and practice that had become dead letter by that time. Tellingly, he was not a Spartan. The masses took hope, but the elite observed in apprehension. Cleomenes III took to the field again with considerable success and Ptolemaic funding. Aratos turned to Makedonia for help and Antigonos III Doson was more than happy to oblige. The Battle of Sellasia in 222 BC put Cleomenes' ambition to rest after a crushing defeat. He fled to Alexandreia, where he commited suicide in 219 BC. The other king, Eukleidas, died a Spartan's death, killed in the battle. Antigonos entered Sparta in triumph, a shame never before suffered by its inhabitants. The institution of the Ephoroi returned, but a child, Pelopidas, was named king of Sparta. In fact, tyrants, hailing from the royal houses, under the pretext of being stewards to the throne, ruled in Sparta and one of the first of them was ironically called Lykourgos.

From this point on, Sparta interacted with the Achaean League and its strategos Philopoimen, an admirer of the other bane of Sparta, Epaminondas. Philopoimen fought in Sellasia in charge of Achaean cavalry and was instrumental in bringing about the Spartans' defeat. Later, in 207 BC, at the Battle of Mantinea, he also defeated and beheaded another steward of King Pelopidas, Mahanidas. Navis seized power in Sparta after that using mercenary troops and held on to it until 192 BC. Navis saw the need for further social reforms, which he did manage to effect. Striking debt, redistributing land and freeing slaves were all measures to that effect, and he applied them to cities under his power such as Argos granted to him by the Makedonian King Philip V, in return for his alliance. In 195 BC, the Romans invaded Sparta with many allies from Hellenic cities and forced Navis to capitulate and accept their humiliating terms, including demolishing a significant part of the wall that he had ordered to be built around Sparta. In 192 BC, Navis tried his luck again. He attempted to reconquer lands in the Peloponnesus, but his advance was checked once more by Philopoimen, who had defeated him twice in the past. The Spartan army was crushed and Navis was brutally killed by Aetolian troops under Philopoimen, receiving multiple sword and spear wounds. After the battle, Philopoimen forced Sparta to join the Achaean League and in 188 BC to even accept its laws, putting an end to Spartan hopes of autonomy once and for all. The Achaean League was a Roman ally, but in a couple of decades' time the Senate decreed a number of cities out of the League, Sparta included, practically declaring war on the League. In 146 BC, the Romans defeated an army and destroyed Corinth. All lands south of Makedonia were incorporated in the province of Achaea. Roman aristocrats visited Sparta in the years that followed as tourists to observe their iconic way of life. Antiquity's most disciplined soldiers, by any measure, had become a stop for sightseeing.

Strategy

The land of the Spartans offers a link between mainland Hellas and Crete, but it is not unique that way. Securing Lakonike is usually a closing chapter rather than a beginning of a campaign in the region. To the right faction, though, it offers an invaluable resource: its men.

fin

Holy shit, the autism! Nah, but really, is good to teach players about ancient history, if they want to (Altought its alot of text, I must say). Good job on the part of the EBII developers.

Anyone?

You broke the non aggression pact. The fact it's long standing doesnt change anything, you still need to break it and wait some number of turns to declare war without the rep hit. What value would a non aggression pact be if you could break it and declare war within the same turn otherwise?

I'm 90% sure it even mentions this ingame.

I know about that. There must pass some time after that to then broke it without penalties. But is that even breaking the non-agression pact before that Tabacleland declares war, doesnt give me penalty, but when helping my allies & joining the war, I get the same result.

I'm inclined to believe that if Kislev was the one who had declared war on an ally you would not have suffered a penalty, but because they declared war and you went with it it does (as you are after all, the aggressor in this situation). However I'm not 100% sure and its not something easily tested.

If you buy TW Warhammer 1 and 2 are they connected in anyway? can you access both in the same game?

You can play the Mortal Empires campaign which pretty much throws every faction from both games into a giant map. The objectives are like classic TW: Conquer certain provinces, eliminate or outlast certain factions and hold a certain % of the map.

Is it possible to make this work torrenting both games?

I have no idea if it works on pirated versions. Sorry user.

If it's possible I doubt it's easy, since Mortal Empires is a game mode on Warhammer 2 that just sees if you own Warhammer 1 too, rather than it being some third game.

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Kill yourself

All I want is a new Medieval and Empire Total war, Warhammer is cool too but it ain't no British grenadiers

Empire was such wasted potential holy shit, a second one done right would be fucking amazing

So what Total War game would you guys like to see in the future?

I always liked the idea of China: Total War

I want either 30 Years War/Pike and Shot or Victoria/Imperialism game, the former for gameplay and setting and the latter for the ability to travel and subjugate the planet.

That would be cool. Closest we ever got from that era was Fall of the Samurai.

Going back in history, I feel like Alexandre era would be cool too.

Also… don't ask me how the fuck this would work out gameplay wise but… WW1 Total War

There's also a waiting period after breaking a non-aggression pact before you can declare war without penalty.

WW1 Total War could work, early game should play in a similar fashion to Empire/FotS but late game should be very different from the rest of the series.

It would be a real challenge to develop that. Armies would be massive and have huge kill counts.

I imagine the late game would be just trying to get the enemy in range of your mortars.

That hasn't been an issue since napoopan. Hell , I think even empire would run with no problems with modified unit limits.

I'm sure it wouldn't be an issue. Was just pointing out that it would have the a big kill count if compared to other Total War games.

I mean like, each battle you would lose thousands of soldiers or more and you would be rewarded by holding ground and avoiding battle instead of enganging directly into enemy front-lines like in the other games.

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Played it, breddy gud mod, but I was talking about if they made a full fledged game without the limits that the Great War mod has

Never played TW. My vaguest impressions of it is that it's mostly baiting plebs with ebin fights and has low skill ceiling and with a focus on campaign/AI rather than multiplayer. Am I wrong?

I don't even know what the fuck you're saying.