Robert House is undoubtedly the worst choice for the future of the wasteland, bar none...

...

What was it? They deleted the post before I could see it.

I guess mark is OP.

What did he say?

Would it have killed you to have some spaces for paragraphs?

This is the end result of letting reddit dictate formatting.

Typical

Shows how good the plot was that people are still arguing about this years later.

People are arguing about The Room and Skyrim years later. It has nothing to do with quality.

Why can't we give our constant attention to a more deserving game?

Go back to school. The formatting is completely normal.

Housefags have daddy issues.

Because there has to be a socially acceptable way of loving bethesdashit.

Here we go again.

But isn't that what any good nation does first before moving onto other goals? Improve your fighting capability against internal and external threats?

Isn't that also an important goal that the NCR and Legion have?

But aren't they notorious for being cowardly dirty fighters? I mean, Legate Lanius will run away from you and try to sic dogs on you if his health gets low enough. That doesn't seem very honorable to me.

And doesn't he also practice decimation even though the real Romans recognized it as being counterproductive? That doesn't seem to foster a good understanding of social hierarchy to me.

And, in spite of Caesar banning drugs, don't his people often get addicted to "tribal medicines" like Hydra?

No it isn't.

Yes goyim, Caesar will certainly reverse the entire culture of the legion to make Vegas a new Rome. He'll manage all this before the aggressive brain cancer makes him a drooling retard, sparking a war of succession. Never fear that he's shown no ability to do this or had any involvement in developing infrastructure in his conquered territories, it'll be smooth because he's Caesar.

Well, his money is (at least partially) made of precious metals and the trade routes in his territory are safe for merchants to travel through so that's a fair start, right?

I've certainly killed House more than letting him live, on my last run through I got the invite, stealth-boii'd my way into his room and unplugged him before he could start yakking.

He does have the best base (thank fuck for the mod that puts you right at the penthouse) but you can still use it if he's croaked anyway and you don't have to put up with the annoying bellbot.

He doesn't *have* to live for the legion to win though.

Caesar's problem is that every aspect of his society is entirely focused upon his military. People who live in his territory don't rate any interest unless they're in his legion, with no involvement at all outside of staying out of the way. You can't build an enduring empire following this model, especially not when you're getting reasonably older and your brain's rotting to boot. You can conquer a lot of disjointed territory, but without taking the time to establish structures outside the legion, there'll be no glue holding it together. That's not even including the issue of how power's getting passed down. Assuming the best, Caesar fathers a male heir, but the son won't have the cult of personality and sense of divine mandate Caesar does, and it'll slowly start to put cracks in the legion. Assuming the worst, even with Vegas, your options are Lanius, who has retard strength in every sense of the word, or Vulpes. No one in the legion likes Vulpes, and there's fuckall chance of Lanius being an administrator or anything except a raider with shiny armor. At that point the legion is basically a set of raider gangs with a unifying theme.

Speaking of precious metals, if the Midwest brotherhood or someone else with know-how irradiates Caesar's gold supply, he's doubly fucked compared to the NCR. It's a long shot, but it's something to keep in mind when talking about the devaluation of NCR currency. I will give you the point on the trade routes, but that's a side effect of sinking everything into your army, and it'll fall off once more as his territory grows.

He looks like a vampire.
They just edited in Obama without editing out House.

You're totally right about House, but totally wrong about the Legion.

By waging total war on them, killing the men of fighting age, enslaving the survivors and wiping out their individual identities.Compared to that kind of savage brutality, the tribal skirmishes of old probably weren't so bad.
He also banned useful medicines like stimpaks and med-x, while indulging in them to keep himself alive. Say one thing, do another; just like you accused House of doing. From a writing standpoint this makes perfect sense; nearly every dictator in history has been a hypocrite in this manner. Dictatorships don't work.
He absolutely did eschew technology, a Caesar-aligned courier can get crates full of banned paraphernalia, including advanced armor, weapons and medicine.

You talk about House being a psychopath because of the way he uses and discards people, caring little for the individual. What do you think of a man who puts his troop's lives in needless danger by ordering them to charge an NCR firing line with a lawnmower blade? A man who forces his underlings to use archaic healing powders while he indulges in top of the lines meds and a fucking auto-doc?

On top of that, they're not even good at LARPing as Romans. Rome was the most technologically advanced civilization of it's time, they embraced technology not shun it. These pointless limitations they put on themselves are ridiculous and done entirely for the sake of a more accurate roleplay.

tl;dr NCR rules, Caesar drools.

Sauce?
????

Have you ever entered The Fort or done a CL playthrough in general? This is pretty basic shit you're asking me to explain.

But fine, open your mouth nice and wide for the spoon.

As for the crates full of banned shit they give you, if you get enough reputation with them a random guy runs up to you and says they're going to give you their banned shit that they can't use to help you in your travels. You get a location with a bunch of crates that contain weapons, armor and meds.

Might be time for a CL playthrough if you're this unfamiliar with the dumb shit they do.

...

Smelly dumb antifa scum.
Judging by what the NPCs from NCR heartland say, pretty fucking great. It looks like an actual civilization instead of a bunch of skirt-wearing LARPer faggots.
If your thoughts on that are anything other that it proves that quantity > quality and the BoS's recruiting practices (or lack thereof) are dumb as shit, then you're wrong.

I'd rather have 5% of my shit stolen my a Democratic Government then 100% by a dictatorship

The male prostitute in Westside tells you about how he was enslaved by the legion as a child and used by a Centurion as a sex slave.
It's a bit more than just a rumor, faggotry runs rampant in the upper echelons of the Legion.

...

I'm not defending the legion, i'm just saying he may not be the most reliable source.
Also its super retarded to use homosexuality in the legion as a fault, not because homosexuality should be normalized or anything like that, but because the NCR clearly has gays in it. Its a the pot calling the kettle black.
Yes Man is best man

Peacetime cultures and wartime cultures are polar opposites of each other, how is that hard to believe?
The Battle for Hoover Dam takes like one day, and the invasion of New Vegas, I assume, just as much time. Even if his tumor is not cured, it's not like he's going to die next week. There is still plenty of time for radical reform.
Pure speculation that Legion haters like to imply as fact Just because Graham and Marcus have that opinion, doesn't mean they are correct.
You mean the prosperous territories that are so safe that traders can roam freely without weapons or escorts, because literally all uncivilized bandits have been wiped out by the Legion? The faction who created the most civilized and peaceful area in the Post-War US is somehow going to be unable to do it if they kick out NCR and House?
No, because it's a proven system that works. People like to compare the Legion to Rome (for obvious reasons,) but what they always fail to realize is that they are also analgous to the Revolutionary US. Visionary(s) takes a very old, proven form of government and enacts it in the modern day, to great prosperity and effect.

Yes, but it's been a few years. I made this thread in response to a post in another thread that got deleted, I didn't neccesarily mean to make it pro-legion, it was just a response
And? It heals just as much as a stimpak, but with renewable, plentiful ingredients. I regularly make survival focused characters that sell stimpaks for lots of money while relying on healing podwer and food to stay up, its quite profitable.
Yeah I forgot about her
Does he say that though? I just thought it was excess captured from the enemy. There's legion denari, doctors bags, and some ammo for guns that the Legion uses (10mm, .44) in there, I don't remember those crates dropping loads of confiscated psycho or anything.
It was kind of shitty due to all the cut content. Blowing up NCR for their dogtags was always fun though.

fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Jimmy_(Fallout:_New_Vegas)
I've never talked with that character in my many playthroughs because I'm not a faggot who wants to talk to faggots. but even on the wiki page it's made clear that was an isolated incident by one random faggot, who knew it was wrong and kept it a secret. There are pedos in every society, Legion having one is a statistical guarantee. What I'm reffering to is other anons implying that the homo thing is a sanctionedm regular practice in the Legion, when in reality it's the exact opposite.
And this:

Looks like fucking weimerica, New cuckifornian republic
>>/cuckshed/

Legionfags get their face on the money
Housefags get luxury
Yesmanchildren get securitron army in their ancap wet dream because might makes right and no other rules are needed
NCR CUCKOLD GET A FUCKING TWIG
A FUCKING TWIG

That brings up parallels to the Mongol invasion which collapsed very quickly after Genghis Khan died.

So? Still brought them together and made a stronger whole, that doesn't negate my point. You might have issue with how it was done, but it worked regardless.
Forcing them to be part of a larger whole and assimilating into a civilized (in their own lands) society is infintely better than the state of endless war and raiding that pre-civilization tribal societies have. Look at the injuns, they were killing, kidnapping and enslaving each other for thousands of years with no end in sight until a stronger, modern civilization crushed them. The Legion is that latter, but instead of making them second class and putting them on reservations, he made the newly conquered tribe an equal part in his legion.

That's ideology, which I thought I explained is quite different than cold, calculated apathy. It's a subtle difference but I find it significant enough.

Hypocrysy is present in every human, Caesar would have been a complete Mary Sue if he dindu nuffin wrong.

The Romans also were rising up from an era of primordial tribalism, they never saw the effects of high technology literally destroying the world. The two cases are completely incongruous.

They are not pointless, it's done with the belief in self-reliance and strength. There is much to be said of technology (especially in the modern age) being used as a crutch that eventually breeds weak people who can't live without it. Caesar finds the middle road in which technology should be used sparingly, but not relied upon primarily. The Legion were not luddites, they had ideals about the strength of human society.

You belong on a cross, degenerate.

Which Lanius?
The one with the scared face?
The one who hates the legion but is loyal only to Caesar?
The one who you speak to in the game?
The one who effectively succeeds Caesar in the ending slides?
At the end of the day all of our speculations that can be contradicted by the games ending slides are moot points.

Yeah man, learning that from the tender age of 10 he was a cumdump for a bunch of backwards skirt-wearing savages had me just throwing caps at him.

Really though, if you want to take the "what if they were lying?" route, a lot of shit is going to get thrown out. Including the only NPC who has anything good to say about the Legion, the trader you find in the Fort. After all, he could just be saying good things about them because he's in their camp!
Unless it's super obvious that the character is a shifty fuck, let's take things NPCs say on faith.
Yeah dude, leaving the Mojave to stagnate and get fucked by whatever Raider gangs rise to power afterward is a great option!
No but really, independence is the worst route, worse even than the Legion. The Mojave needs structure.

Nigger, CL is exclusively a wartime culture. Legate Lanius and Caesar make it pretty fucking clear they have no plans to stop at Hoover Dam and plan to march all the way to the West Coast afterward. War is how their civilization was created and war is the only way it knows how to sustain itself. With no enemy to fight it will turn on itself.
Going on what Sailus (the CL centurion you interrogate for the NCR) the tumor is already hindering his ability to lead in what little capacity he does and leaves him bedridden for days at a time. Caesar's living on borrowed time, and it's almost time to collect.
Really nigger? You're going to disregard what Graham–former Legate of the fucking legion and former close friend to Caesar himself–has to say about the Legion's sustainability? If not him than who the fuck does have a credible opinion?
Marcus is someone you should listen to because he's been around long enough to know what he's talking about, he's seen stronger civilizations rise and fall. You took the two most knowledgeable NPCs in the entire game and said "Pfft, what do they know?"
Yes, I paraphrased but that is the essence of what he says. He clearly remarks to you that it's the banned materials they can't use so it's fine to give them to a profligate like you. I think the boxes were called "Banned Materials" or something too.
Could've fooled me.
Yeah dude, ignore the reputation they have for faggotry and the clear cut example provided, it's just pure coincidence.

Fuck off to the both of you, an independent Vegas is the best Vegas. No gods, no masters.

NCR cucks are as bad as yesmanchildren for similar reasons.

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Uh, yes? I don't exactly trust a man to be objective about an organization he blindly hates with every fiber of his being. If maybe Caesar had a line to Courier once he was more buddy buddy like "man I worry that my successor is going to be controversial" or even something like "I take pride in lanius, but I feel he's made too many enemies in my own camp" then that could be used as a justification that there is internal strife. But in game, the only people who posit that the legion will infight and crumble are exclusively legion enemies. Anyone can have fanciful wishful thinking about their enemies.
fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Caesar's_Favor
I think you have your facts mixed up. No mention of banned materials, nor are they labeled as such. And now I think of it, are stimpaks even banned in the legion? addictive drugs are, but is the lack of soldiers carrying stimpaks simply due to their scarcity over the easily produced healing powder?
You're right, I should just Listen and Believe™ what some random, wishful-thinking enemies of Legion say in passing insult, providing no evidence, while ignoring the fact that homosexuality is punished by death in the Legion. Yeah. Okay.

This exact response can be used to counter what you said about House. Who cares if he weakens society with chems and vice if he accomplishes what he sets out to do? You also totally ignored his wiping out of their individual identities, something you faulted House for.
You really think having your family killed, enslaved and your identity wiped out is better than dealing with the odd raid from a rival tribe come to steal your Brahmin?
The Sorrows and Dead Horses didn't seem to be doing too badly. In fact, if it weren't for the White Legs (a problem brought on by Caesar) they'd be downright happy in their meager tribal existence.
Oh, well that totally makes his cold indifference towards whether his troops live or die okay.
Practicing what he preaches would've made him a Mary Sue? Well shit, I better start contradicting my every word. Don't wanna be a Mary Sue!
Advanced medicine didn't destroy the world, neither did metal armor or anti-personnel weaponry. Bombs did. On top of that, CL is not the Brotherhood. They aren't worried nor do they care about technology destroying the old world, they're just dumb tribals led by a Romeaboo faggot with a tumor the size of a grapefuit in his head.
Yeah, there's a lot of strength to be had in getting riddled with bullets whilst charging soldiers armed with semi-automatic rifles with a knife, then dying because all you have are healing powders.
If by "used sparingly" you mean used exclusively by him and his inner circle, then you're totally right.

There was no civilization as strong as NCR and Legion. The Master's Army wasn't a civilization, nor the Enclave, nor New Reno, nor Vault City, etc. Which ones are you referring to?
I took some NPCs that had opinions like everyone else and weighed them carefully. You're the one that elevated their opinion to somehow higher than others, and just took their opinions as gospel, without ever considering the power of wishful thinking.

I'm pretty sure Graham dropped all that hate shit when he became a born again Christian.
Yes. There's a speech check once you enter the Fort to keep them on you.

NCR led or independent Vegas are the only valid picks for better or for worse. Unfortunately all the options lead to an eventual collapse of order, but there's at least a chance that the bloodshed will be limited with those two.

which one, the small one between your legs?

yeah the NCR can go get fucked

>>Holla Forums

I cant believe none of you retards have figured out that there are no good options in New Vegas. Why would you niggers assume that there's a lived-happily-ever-after ending to goddamn fallout?

On the subject of the legions banning of stuff, I think it was mentioned when Caesar had to destroy the underground vault of house stuff; which he naively takes your word on if you don't destroy it, and with the death squads he sends after you that have poor condition anti-matter rifles. Just saying.

All options the game presents the player are valid.
The invalid option in the game is allowing the great khans to live in the NCR route and allowing the BoS to live in the house route IIRC, unless they ever officially patched it in or pointed out that it was not removed for a reason.

Except what I'm saying is the exact opposite- who cares if Caesar strengthens and civilizes society by whatever means?
What? I never brought identity up for either House or conquered tribes.
But see, you miss the point. Caesar is trying to forge a civilized society, not a place where individuals can "be happy with a meager existence". Civilization is an elevation from that base state.
Or him having to make a grim descision as a neccesary evil, that he regrets but must do for the sake of ideology? Eye of the beholder, etc.
archive.org/stream/IndustrialSocietyAndItsFuture-TheUnabombersManifesto/IndustrialSocietyAndItsFuture-theUnabombersManifesto_djvu.txt
Implying
No.

The same born-again Christian who advocated the genocidal slaughter of the White Legs?
Ah.

That was originally planned, and is still in game's files. Only makes sense if you convince the Brotherhood to keep the lock down forever.

Well I guess you're retarded then huh?

I did, I said Caesar or Lanius expressing doubts themselves, not 3rd party commentary. .

So you listen exclusively to members of Caesar's Legion on the topic of whether or not they'll survive Caesar's death. Because there couldn't possibly be any bias there, right?
Shit user, it's getting harder and harder to take you seriously.

7 YEARS
Y
E
A
R
S
you niggers have gone at this.

The fact that people still have these passionate discussions about Fallout NV stands as testament to how good of a game it was.

It's fun, faggot.

No it shows the willingness of autists to discuss the same talking points and never change anyone's minds no matter how long or often they discuss it.

What a boring faggot you are.

...

Hello pot, my name is kettle.

He dropped the hate for Caesar. Also, I think he's ashamed of himself for wanting to kill them all if you don't go with him at the end of Honest Hearts. Or that he expresses regret if you do go through with killing them all, though I'm less sure on that part.

Caesar tells you that Lanius has no love for the Legion, only the desire to kill 'the enemy'. Having him being the successor to a man with brain cancer that is reaching terminal stages is not going to transform the Legion into a prosperous society.

I've been in dozens of these NV thread and this thread is probably the first one in which I've seen someone flat out say House is a bad choice and no one disagrees with him.
It's a shame he fucked it up by shilling the Legion, but still, it's new and you're a boring faggot.

And Legionfags are closeted homosexuals, just as NCRfags are open homosexuals, and it seems funny that OP talked about megalomania and God complexes when the Independent ending is nothing but the player stroking his own ego.

Yeah, because they, of all people, should know the state of their society. Are you saying that thousands of people are just going to say "fuck it" and scatter to the winds, or destroy everything they fought for at this point because one guy died, instead of trying to make it work?
I was going to say we were having a great debate, but w/e.

Do you post this same shit in STALKER, Morrowind, or EYE threads? Why do those games get a pass when discussing lore? A good game is a good game, who cares how long it's been out?

It can't possibly be because it's fun to discuss these things, and since it's not real we're just taking sides in order to have a discussion?

This

I don't think CL is dumb enough to think advanced armor and medical chems are useless to them, so I'm gonna guess they fall into the forbidden category.
As for why ammo for guns they actually use is in there, I dunno. I guess they're just retarded.

Open your mind a little, user. There is plenty of well-reasoned arguments against modern technology and the effect it has on individuals and society. See the manifesto I linked earlier.

No, I just recognize that they are ultimately opinions.

Okay? No guarantee that the Legion will fall in the same path.

I don't agree.

I know, I intended to get into an argument with some pro-House user, I didn't expect to get into an NCR vs. Legion one.

No cause they also talk about mods and gameplay. No one ever does that here.

You've turned being stupid into an art form.

...

Show me the posts ITT where people are talking about that.

But more important then that it was planned, is that it was removed.
Think of it like this.
These games are meant to indulge the player in their fantasy. You could make a game where the player always gets what they want, but it would be shallow. That type of thinking ends up with stupid things like the main antagonist killing themselves because you spoke very good.
Make no mistake, NV does have a scenario where you talk the Lanius down, but figuring out how to navigate that conversation without getting saying you are speaking in circles then attacking takes work.
But the point I'm getting at is that Lanius is a character. If you want to talk him down it has to be on terms that the character is willing to accept, you can't talk him down based on your understanding of Science or your unarmed stills. If they let you talk him down by talking science or by scaring him away becuase you are good at fighting unarmed it would make him less of a real character.
So going back to where we started, the devs thought of a senario where house would have allowed the BoS to live, but they removed it. I argue that they did so because it is out of character for house to allow them to live. There is no way house would be willing to let the BoS exist in his perfect toy town, even if the Courier asked him nicely or made a good argument. Same goes for the NCR allowing the great kahns to kamikaze on the damn for the NCR cause, after the shit they did in goodsprings and the fact they really hate the kahns for kidnapping their second president when she was a child, there is no way they woudln't use the seanio as an excuse to rid themselves of them once and for all.
Both of these scenarios case a very negative light on the factions that make choosing them more difficult, and that good from a writing perspective.

They aren't in this thread but a week ago there was a fallout thread where a bunch of anons were talking about the different mods they have as well as their favorite armor. I get advice on a couple mods from helpful anons and started a new playthrough.

But what exactly is wrong about discussing the story of an RPG?

That would only prove that this New Vegas thread hasn't talked about mods or gameplay. I could go into a Morrowind thread and start complaining when people start discussing CHIM that it's the only thing ever talked about.

It would make more sense to talk House down from destroying a chapter of the Brotherhood and all the technology that they hold, than it would to talk down Lanius by explaining trade routes. We could argue about this forever, but it would really just be an argument over the limitations of choices in games.

Let's go to reality for a second, say you are a man who barely made it out of the nuclear apocalypse, you know what this world thrives on and you know it's a pain in the ass to even be alive right now due to hundreds of dangerous things out in the Wasteland, knowing this there's literally no way to think about half the shit you just wrote because you simply don't care about that, you care for yourself.
Now you get 4 options here,
You'll get a little pat on the back but then invited into the world of bureaucratic bullshit that'll probably made you wish Benny just finished you off at the start.
You'll probably get buttfucked by a man with a brain tumor and then thrown into a unbeatable war against the NCR afterwards.
I don't know maybe people will perfer this one if you're bloodthirsty.
You're given a permanent life of luxury and House never stabs you in the back because he's busy taking care of New Vegas.
To be honest this just seems like a obvious choice when you think about your own personal gain and survival.

If that's your attitude then who cares if House strengthens and civilized society by whatever means? What exactly makes giving people the choice to gamble and do drugs worse than wiping out entire towns and tribes while enslaving the survivors?
You brought up the destruction of the individual. When Caesar wipes out a tribe and folds the survivors into his legion, he has destroyed that tribe's individuality.
So is House. In the short time before the NCR's arrival after they discovered the Dam, he got the three families together and got New Vegas up and running. He didn't have to destroy the tribes the families came from to do it either.
So what the ruthless means Caesar uses to accomplish his goals acceptable, but the ruthless means House uses unacceptable?
Okay, at what point is it said that CL's uses melee weapons because of supply shortages? There are several NPCs that say they do it as a form of initiation rites and as a way of swinging your dick around, but never is it said they do it because of supply shortages.
And when is it ever said that Caesar regrets sending his troops to meaningless deaths for the sake of ideology?
Not arguments.
What is this bullshit? The White Legs were the ones trying to wipe them out, Graham was simply responding in kind.

...

Nigger are you telling me the narrator is lying now?

I'm telling you that living in some nut's personal snow globe isn't all it's cracked up to be, luxury or not. I think that ending assumes the player character never does anything Mr. House disagrees with like a good little slave.

ENSURES MR. HOUSE WOULD KEEP NEW VEGAS STABLE AND SECURE FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS
GEE WHAT MIGHT THAT MEAN?!

How am I illiterate and why are you spazzing out? Nothing that you said even replied to what I stated. Either reply to my comments or don't.

Except in the bad karma House ending where it says that he only gives you all the luxuries you want because he’s fucking terrified of you

And I'm sure that will turn out well as well, I mean it's not like in a position like that Mr. House would attempt to have you bumped off at some point if he's so afraid of you.

Just look at his posts ITT, he's been a spaz in all of them.
Ignore him.

Sounds like good advice, I'll take it because that was some impressive spaghetti spilling. Starting with an unnecessary "literally" and all.

I think game theory puts it as Indy>House>NCR>Legion

That's not to say that the Legion are a poor choice mind, rather the more challenging, or not immediately obvious one. Leaders of cults of personality often jar with outsiders because they assume they're already the fucking boss of everyone and the tendency for an outsider to make it clear that they're not is liable to cause said ego maniac prick to flip their tumoured lid and then bullets start flying. Or they're so esoteric in presentation and insistent that you go kill for them unquestioningly that they're just somewhat distasteful on a human level level, unless you're into that kind of thing.

Indy is you as boss so you're 'fine', other people not so much.
House has you as good boy gets his tendies
NCR is "Here's a hat and a meh gun, go improvise, but not against us."
Legion is 'Be a submissive assassin, fuck everything up and get your purge on with the Cosplay lads.'

...

hold the fuck up

But was he right, Holla Forums

I'll just make a five word (1) and done shitpost next time, my bad.

He made it all the way through the Oil Rig on my playthrough.

Sulik is an OG.

Sulik true bro.

I love to run a posse in my play throughs of FO2

I gave you the benefit of the doubt and went and watched one of those videos. I know that they're shit, but I put my trust in you that it would be worthwhile and I would be proved wrong.
I stopped watching when the faggot praised Bethesda for deciding to name the series Fallout.
Apologize to me.

We and I agree. Sulik with power armor and Super Sledge makes short work of most things.

Never give him a machine gun though.

.223 pistol is a solid choice, if you're inclined. Easy to keep fed, too.

Ian with the .223 was pretty nice. I always tell him to wait in Shady Sands once it starts getting dangerous, though.

Not to downplay how shit the NCR prove themselves to be as a playthrough progresses mind, you find more than enough groups on the wrong side of them who (all) don't deserve the harshness they're treated with.

Wat? Oh christ is 'game theory' some Youtube shit? You poor poor lamb, you took yourself to the slaughter on that one lad.

No I meant applying actual game theory to the game to deduct where most people would fall.

Indy is the most novel and selfish route which is most likely.
House is safeish almost default route.
NCR is surface force for good with a rotten underbelly and sides.
Legion is surface backwards and harsh with more harsh if you don't play correctly

I always keep Ian with me until he dies in the glory of battle.

Dogmeat's gotta wait tho, no way my dogmeat dies in ANY of my playthroughs.

Yeah, uh, Ian has a knack for getting killed. Tycho is a really solid companion choice, though. I forget what Katja was like, you don't get her until the Boneyard anyway.

Katja is a qt she's a more flimsy Ian, but with better aim.

Is that even possible? How on earth do you get Dogmeat through Mariposa with the hailstorm of rockets and minigun fire? Even if you stimpak'd him every turn I doubt he would make it through alive.

Eat shit, NCR is best faction.
Like who? Other than the followers being forced out by the NCR in one of the endings, who didn't deserve what they got?
If you say the Khans I'm going to immediately disregard your post. They were nothing but raider shits.

Oh that's right, I now run Fallout 1, with Fallout Fixt with among many things, gives you the option to make doggomeatto wait You also get the option to make his sprite red in the installer options

You could probably lock him behind a yellow barricade on the first floor.

But that begs the question, is that a run "with" Dogmeat? If you make him wait the second he becomes your companion and finish the game with him still waiting, is that a successful "kept Dogmeat alive" run?

Never thought of that, good idea user.

No, just do the Mariposa base last, make him wait outside the base, all you do is blow the place up and pick him back up just as you run out of there!

...

...

NCR is an analogy of the american war machine they want everyone to think it's a patriotic structural peace-bringing crusader when in fact it does little on the ground for the locals but give them legitimate beefs with their people.

No not the Khans they're bloody savages, I mean the prisoners/Powder Gangers, the NCR trying to run a legit prison in the fucking wastes is inhuman shit. I know the counter arguments against but those sorry cunts were left to rot and few deserve that fate and the NCR being the architect of that takes the shine off them early and it only gets worse as you go.

Yes they're the 'best' faction because there's only 2 that matter and the other one is a gang of murderous serfs in roman costume led by a delusional lunatic with brainrot.

It's a game of imperfect choices.

You're all dumb.
Every single one of you.
The best faction is obviously the Brotherhood. You guys ever played 1 or 2? They are by far the most advanced, structured, disciplined and down-to-Earth realistic faction. The Brotherhood in NV also shows this, even if they're a tad pathetic compared to the main body.
I'm all for taking away tech from tribals who're just going to use it to kill each other anyways. Put it to actual use in rebuilding society.

The Brotherhood in 2 was declining by their own admission. NV showed them as the ineffectual, hollow shell that they once were.
Their entire purpose, again by their own admission, was to hoard technology for themselves, and fuck greater society. The Brotherhood were always just bandits with laser guns pretending that they were something more.

Still a far better option then a hypocritical conglomeration of tribes, a psychopathic, sociopathic withered corpse, or the twice as corrupt & self-defeating equivalent of modern US. They have structure, they have safety, and they have tons of tech. Maybe their end-end goals aren't exactly the most noblest but they're still the best decision.

Well the NCR isn't omnipotent, it can't afford to help people that aren't NCR citizens because they don't pay the taxes it needs to recuperate its losses.
What? How is that inhuman? The alternative would have been summary execution, and if you talk to those guys they tell you their offences and damn near every one of them deserves to be there.
Maybe I just don't remember enough about the NCRF, were their logs or notes that said the conditions were inhumane? That the prisoners weren't being fed or something?
If anything the NCR running a legit prison impressed me even more, that's a sign of civilization.
That's the point and its great

I'd agree with you if it wasn't for their pants-on-head retarded "no recruiting" policy.
The fate of the NV chapter is the inevitable fate of all Brotherhood chapters that operate that way. They'll get into a major battle or incident that drastically reduces their numbers and be forced into hiding for their own preservation.

The East-Coast Brotherhood is the only viable Brotherhood chapter.

East Coast is non-Canon in my book. That alien bullshit is infuriating, it completely defuses any meaning that the previous games, and New Vegas tried to establish for the sake of "AYYYYY LMAO ALIENS LOOOOL"

How? Just because they recruit anybody doesn't mean they are strong.

Even New Vegas treats 3 as canon user, don't be so bitter.
Why? It's just some dumb standalone DLC that is never referenced again (unless you count the easter egg aliens in NV and 4)
If you wanna treat anything as non-canon, let it be that.

Because they recruit and train new members. That's what made the NCR stronger than the Brotherhood in NV and that's what makes the East Coast Brotherhood the only viable iteration of the Brotherhood.

Isolating themselves the way they do is fucking retarded and will only lead to their downfall. It's a damn shame you can't make the NV Brotherhood see that through Veronica's quest.

House did nothing wrong. NCR is too incompetent and corrupt. Legiontards are mixed mongrels of rape and delusions of grandeur in football uniforms with some retarded cancer-infused mormon at the helm degenerating people. Followers are commie cucks. Enclave did nothing wrong. Brotherhood of Steel are jews that want power only for themselves. Father Elias did nothing wrong. Great Khans are degenerate drug dealers that belong in the oven.
Bethesda did nothing wrong. Eat shit. Obsidian are full of faggots and socjus cunts.

didnt read just wanted to post my spurdo :DDD

Dogmeat canonically gets vaporized by a fucking field of lasers like in the RE movie.

i need ten citations for your bullshit

This is a pretty decent analysis, good job OP. I think I still prefer NCR purely for their aesthetics, but I do wish the Legion got fleshed out to the same level as NCR.
I wish I could beat NV, the gunplay kills it for me.

I'll never finish this game at this rate.
I assumed its because I am using a pirated copy, but I refuse to give Betheshit any fucking money, fuck them they basically Jewed them out of the rights to the franchise any way.

The Wasteland Survival Guide is in NV
Colonel Autumn is mentioned in some logs
Veronica half-mentions the East Coast's Brotherhood's civil war
E-DE's existence

The development of Hellfire armor is also a huge part of EDE's story.
Still, in my headcannon nothing Bethesda did is real, its all spin off non-cannon filler episodes.

RobCo was created by Beth, then Obshitian not only made it reappear in NV, but they also made House the founder of this company. Beth's Enclave is also mentioned in Lonesome Road in E-DE's audiologs. Two of them are about colonel Autumn, the ancestor of the F3 one. It's definitely no coincidence because other terminal entries in this DLC make a big deal out of entire upper military branch being one big family.

...

...

You shouldn't have expected it anyway. The dude who started the project started 9 others or some shit, none of which he ever finished. He's the type to give up, weak willed, a weakling.. It was never going to be finished.

The tier list is thus

This is fact.

Does anyone got a magnet for the GOG version of New Vegas, I fucking hate achievements and my OCD is telling me to remove the Steam version from my account now a GOG version has been released.

It's rare to find such quality.

They also hate anyone who isn't them. They only care about their one tribe, and to hell with the rest of humanity.

Was the picture of Mr. House standing in front of Liberty Prime not enough? You can find that portrait in his house at Camp Golf.

Get out. The true order is this:
House>Legion>Yes Man>NCR

Geez, and I thought his list was bad.
Listen up faggots, this is the actual, official tier list.
NCR>House>Yes Man>A second nuclear holocaust>Legion

Theres really no choice here, if you'd be interested in your own hide you'd go for house, if you're interested for the wasteland you'd go for house.
And none of the other options have even a chance of improving the wasteland in the long run.

NCR and Legion are equally shit, NCR is for the goodest of goyim and the Legion are LARPing hypocritical faggots, the big-brained debate that you peabrains can't take part in is House v. Yes Man.

A FUCKING TWIG

NCR is seriously the worst faction.
Not a single memorable or interesting character outside of Chief Hanlon.
They basically do what the Legion does but shittier and with taxes then fuck you in the ass if you aren't a Brahmin Baron.

Except it also houses people like the Followers of the Apocalypse and most importantly Mick & Ralph's motherfugger.

So to say it's useless is an understatement.

Yeah, boby bass is great, and the dude who voiced him did a professional 10/10 job. I was seriously impressed.

Anyone else think Mick & Ralph are a gay couple? I find it very odd they're there together and neither ever visit the atomic wrangler for the girls or anything else, as well as no girlfriends or wives.

House has a vision and fleecing idiots to fund it is nice, especially since said vision doesn't infringe on freedoms.

Freeside is a shithole because house decided them to do whatever.
Once house woke up from a coma he got the resident niggers an ultimatum to either stop fucking dogs when they shit whole high on military-grade meth or to leave.
Freeside is assblassted niggers
>>/gaschamber/

...

decided to let them* so if they want to be savages they can do so, elsewhere.

House is not perfect, and neither is New Vegas, but that don't mean New Vegas is a "nothing" city, It houses many people and factions of relevance.

I didn't say I approved, I said I was suspicious.

...

Im not arguing his vision.
Its a sound plan but it will take a century or two to make it happen. Vegas is pitiful in size and if he aims to bring back a semblence of pre war american hes going to have to fleece a lot of idiots for their money for the next hundred or so years.
That being said its the best option out of the bunch if you're going for world improvement.

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No he isn't. He's a pragmatist concerned for the long-term. Caesar is a shittier version who is so mired in ideology that it's likely after his death the Legion will collapse. House's empire, once up and running, will be self-sufficient for generations to come, presuming he picks his successors well (which it's likely he will).

...

Because Yes Man is shit and only retards think he's a good option.

Any other the factions–even Caesar's fucking legion–is a better option because what the Mojave needs most is structure and stability.

In the Yes Man option nothing gets better. The Followers are too swamped with helping the people of Freeside they can never make a difference anywhere else. That alone is proof enough of how bad the Yes Man ending is for the Mojave.

Everyone disregards Yes Man route, thing is it felt like there was going to be more to it than "Lel anarchism."

When I played NV the first time around I went with Yes Man under the impression the Courier was going to possibly build a faction/government. The ending gave me the impression that Yes Man route was kinda lazily ended even though it seems to have more going for it than it did.

Even a lot of the dialogue options imply that the end goal for Yes Man is to take control of the Mojave yourself. Though the ending implies it's solely for the lolanarchydude!

I get the impression they left it vague so they wouldn't make assumptions about your character's actions once they got in charge. The period of anarchy could be seen as the obligatory downside for the Yes Man ending, but I'm going to assume the Courier takes control when it's all over.

Most of the game lazily ended. I do think it's a great game despite its countless fucking flaws though.

it's not because pirated copy its because win95 game on new hardware - try using win10 compatibility settings to force 640*480 reso and 8-bit color (note this will fuck up everything if you have multi monitors)

A few years back it seemed like a running meme that is was the best route, nearly every NV thread had a dozen or so fags praising it as the best choice.

They needed to include the Yes Man ending in the game though, otherwise it would be technically possible to make the game unbeatable since you can kill everyone in every faction.

You fellas didnt pay attention at the ending did you?
It clearly says that the courier with the help of yes man does take vegas under his control but without house the bots cant function as well and as in great number and thus are unable to keep peace for long.
The courier simply cant be as good a ruler as house can.

Reminder that regardless of any faction you chose, wiping out The Brotherhood of Steel is the only valid way of dealing with those kikes in any way.

the question is, is it better to kill every single one personally or blow them up?
or both?

kill them before they make you their bitch, blow it up if you're a stelt character though

Kill each one personally, then blow up the bunker just to be sure.

Yes I remember but like I said it seemed like they got lazy. If the Yes Man route had more depth you could have had missions recruiting militias and prominent leaders in NV (obviously not house, Any politician from NCR or Caesar)

You would essentially bring in more manpower to start a new government/faction. Chief Hanlon could have been convinced to side with you to form a new government (he was already dissatisfied by how the NCR was governing) With the Rangers at your side I would imagine you would also have quite a few of NCR regulars join as well.

The brotherhoods disconnection with California's Chapters could have been used to your benefit as well. Convincing them to patrol trade routes and have their pick of your new governments soldiers to supplement their numbers accordingly, their technological know how would have been a huge benefit as well, effectively giving you engineers to maintain Hoover Dam and help rebuild.

Gannon and all the other survivors of the enclave could have also been convinced to support and maybe build a new Enclave.

You know something like that.

Looking at it, it seems to depend on which of the Yes Man variations you get. The chaos either runs rampant, or it's ended quickly with some remaining side effects. House may be better at keeping order, but he's out solely for himself. I didn't particularly care for any of the factions so I figured climbing up to the top of the retard totem pole would be the best bet. Especially since the Courier is basically a walking whirlwind of death at that point, anybody who goes up against him is practically signing their own death warrant.

All factions of New Vegas are good and I think they are very cute

Can we separate the extraordinarily unrealistic gameplay and story for a minute and just assume that the Courier could not actually survive an nslaught of the entire Mojave BoS chapter like he's able to in the game? Highly doubt in-story he's as powerful as he is in-game, very powerful yes but not a fucking demi-god.

Pretty good, 9/10, Should've mentioned more than just the Legion though cause it makes you look like a faggot.

He doesn't, though.
In House's case, it's because his entire society is about controlling the lesser folk with drugs and gambling. Freeside is basically fucked without the Courier's help due to how most people are addicts, psychopaths, or just merchants trying to jew everyone. The Legion doesn't have this as a problem; Threats to its stability are eliminated, the survivors (if any) incorporated and made into the Legion, and the problems cease to exist. Sure, they don't have the 'luxury' of getting addicted to Jet, but you're also not being controlled by gambling debts whilst being held at gunpoint by the Omertas/Graffs/Garetts/Whoever.
I'm not even a legionfag, user, but I can see that House's complete detachment from the actual state of the Strip and Freeside, which went so far as to let himself get hoodwinked by that dipshit Benny, is bad.
Good. The same can be argued of house, but regardless, Caesar acquires better results. The Legion has no White Gloves killing people to cannibalize them. They have no Omertas getting people indebted and addicted to drugs and sex. They have no Garrets, no Van Graffs, and so on. If destroying the Individuality of tribes is what it takes to accomplish that, then it's not a bad thing at all.
Hardly. He forced them to cuck to him at Gunpoint without fully making them his subordinates, and he's still forced to suck on NCR Dick while praying that he can get his Securitrons upgraded so he's able to truly achieve an Independent New Vegas under his rule. I already covered how the Families are corrupt and sick to the core.
I can't recall any, but it's implied. Lower ranked soldiers aren't denied firearms, but can scavenge or acquire their own if they'd rather not stick to purely melee weapons. It works well with the Legion's Raid-And-Pillage style of fighting. Lanius stated that due to the Legion's close-range and low troop quality style of fighting, they're better at attacking than defending. If it were purely due to initiation rites, or 'just cuz lol', they wouldn't be allowed to arm themselves normally.
That's not very Christian-like of Graham. He's clearly a little unhinged after being burned alive, and it's not unreasonable to think that he'd want revenge, perhaps in the form of Genocide, just as he wants to do to the White-legs, who are of course working for Caesar.

But house doesn't exert his direct control over freeside?
And everyone on the strip is a free adult, House isn't exactly kidnapping people so they can dine, drink, gamble and fuck hookers
t. read KJB which is fucking trash made by a half-retard or thinks Christianity was always Vatican II: cuckold boogaloo
Forgiveness requires repentance.

don't disagree with your other points though

I think you're very cute, faggot.

It's pretty phenomenal. The towns in Cali and Oregon in previous games were doing better despite nukes flying left and right. And yet the Vegas and its immediate surroundings, despite not having been destroyed in the war, rapidly devolved into abo tribes tearing everything apart. Freeside is nothing, entire Westside is full of buildings that started falling apart and people sleep in the streets fearing the overnight collapse of the roofs/walls. Only a total subhuman would not think of doing some basic maintenance or at the very least salvaging bricks and other useful parts and building new structures. I guess House only kept those retarded savages alive in hopes that eventually he'll be able to use his securitrons to enslave the abos and put them in labor camps.

Houses in goodsprings, novac, even nipton before being LEGIONED didn't have those problems either, so the only thing about house is that he allowed niggers to nig, believing they can civilize themselves?

House spent the first few decades after the war in a coma and he woke up to see Vegas already ruined and overrun by abos. Even people from the vault on southern outskirts said fuck it and moved away from Vegas, to Goodsprings and many other places. I guess House knows about other towns being more successful and hopes that he can put the abos to menial labor while populating the rebuilt city with more civilized people.

Sorry user, but a lot of things are "implied"
Unless you have some evidence that the reason they use melee weapons is supply shortages, it's not canon.

You really shouldn't want that to be the case anyway, it would just be another way in which the Legion are worse than the NCR. Despite supply shortages of their own, the NCR is still capable of outfitting every one of their soldiers with a firearm.
The bible doesn't say to let you and your people die because fighting your enemies is un-Christian. You can't very well turn the other cheek and forgive someone who is actively trying to wipe you out.
You can tell him outright that you're a member of CL and might tell Caesar about his location and he doesn't give a single fuck. In fact he says "lol Caesar will probably kill you anyway" because Caesar is an insecure faggot that doesn't like being reminded of his mistakes.

The rest of your post is great and all but I don't care enough about House to defend him in a long post.

Thanks for clarifying two-dubsman

Speaking of House, doesn't anyone know why he decided to fill Vault 21 with cement?

The vault groomed a populace that believed in anarchy basically, where everyone is equal and disputes are solved with gambling instead of reason. He had to scatter those people, so he flooded most of their living quarters and evicted them.

Legion is Homosex
NCR is Good Goy
House is Lolberg
Just run the strip yourself, you already have robot Dave Foley, you don'r need anyone else.

Well, they lost a game (^:
All was fair.

Give me one good reason they would use melee weapons over fucking guns. There's literally no other reason besides supply shortages for them to use MACHETES against ARMED SOLDIERS AND/OR TRIBALS.

From an outside the game perspective, I think it might have been as a reference to this:

I always thought House feared Vault 21 could be used to attack him. You can see a (locked) gate leading to Vault 21 behind Benny's room in The Tops, perhaps there were more tunnels leading from Vault 21 to other sensitive places on the Strip, and this worried House. This is all just my head-canon, though.

Again from a meta point of view, it could have been done to show that House is not afraid to screw people over if he finds it necessary.

FTFY.
Doesn't matter. People are easily enticed into the small pleasures House and the Families on the strip give out, and become addicted to it. It's a method of control, and nothing more. That someone would choose to be controlled by such things does not make it justified or right.
Point to me where in the bible it says 'Yeah, Genocide people if they attack you'. It doesn't, and the fact that Graham's fellow missionairies, and that even the Dead Horses and the Sorrows themselves aren't interested in genocide until he spurs them onto it hints at this. Graham, as cool as he is, and as much as I agree with him that murdering the White Legs is the most viable solution, is still clearly not up to forgiving anyone.

I'd agree, except that you can fix up Freeside a good deal just by being smart. You can help the Followers out and get some important NPCs off their drug addictions. You can get rid of the Van Graffs and end their attempts to monopolize energy weapons, and so on. House just left the people of vegas, the ones right next door; The ones he tossed aside and figured he had no use in, to live off the refuse of the strip and act like a bunch of niggers in coonsville.
In the end, he didn't have the talent and the intelligence to whip the vegas fags into shape the way the Courier did. All he can do, and could ever do, was keep the Strip secure and under his control, something not even comparable to the accomplishments of the NCR or the Legion.

I just told you why it'd be due to supply shortages.

Their firearms barely work, though, and their soldiers receive hardly any training. The NCR has to tax everyone to hell and back as well. If not for their population, they'd never be able to afford any of that. Not to mention, they're still not able to field the same numbers as Caesar.
That is correct. Genocide is not in it however.
Personally, I'd see that as a necessity since Obsidian would never do something like let a Caesars Legion fag help out the White legs as they normally would, but even then, Joshua can use you to help him destroy the Whitelegs, so it's not entirely nonsensical.

why would he forgive those who made no attempt at making amends?

the thing about freeside is that the way they live is ingrained in them, helping out the followers and removing the van graffs won't change that. the kings would certainly resist, likely violently, as well unless he has the courier search for a diplomatic solution. their ways of crime and freedom are not compatible with house's vision for the strip, and like i said lies deeply within them, which could also further explain why house has decided to abandon it rather than extend the effort to get freeside under control when he already has his hands full with the strip, the NCR, and the legion.

Ave, true to kaisar

kuck

...

He wouldn't forgive them eitherway, and that's my point. Graham hates the Legion, his opinions on where it'll go or end up aren't worth a whole lot.

Nah, Legion is still best faction.

*Follow by my own free will because his path is righteous.

Probably the same reason they shun advanced medicine like stimpaks and med-x
Cause they're stupid fucking savages
A lot of Caesar's Legion talk about using melee weapons as a point of pride and initiation rites, but not a single fucking one says anything about doing it for a practical reason like supply shortages.

And I just told you to fuck off with your head canon until you have a single source to back it up.
That's not true, and the Service Rifle is a pretty damn decent gun in game to boot.
The gun merchant at the 188 Trading Post–who is critical of the NCR–says they receive at least 2 weeks training before deployment.
2 weeks of learning how to fire and maintain your weapon isn't bad.
Well when every member of your enemy's tribe wants to see you and yours dead, genocide is the only choice. Point to me in the bible where it says "Yeah you can kill your enemies, just leave a few of them alive."
Regardless of how you see it, Graham shows no outward hatred to the legion, not even if you proudly proclaim you're a member. He's moved on in his life and cares more about helping tribals than getting revenge on Caesar. This is why his summary of the Legion's fate isn't "wishful thinking" He doesn't care about the legion anymore, he's just telling you what he thinks will become of them after Caesar's death.
Unsurprisingly, it's the same fate of all cults of personality after the personality is gone.

New Vegas isn't a dating sim, she was never with you to begin with.

Interesting discussion you've got going here OP. Here's my take on it. While the worst ending might be the House ending I contend that the best possible ending is the Independent psychopath ending. This might sound like I'm trying to be edgy but hear me out.

All of the factions in Fallout are either incompetent, tyrannical, bloodthirsty, selfish or irrelevant. As a whole they do nothing but create reasons for people to pit themselves against each other by joining one side or the other. Even the bigger factions that try to pacify the world and make it safe do so with the intent of taking over and being the new superpower. In short everything goes back to square one and the world resumes it's pointless obsession with governments and mass organized warfare.

The truly best outcome for the already broken world of Fallout is to destroy all organized groups and leave the securitrons too weak to even control Vegas. Organized groups destroyed the old world. They had their day in the sun and now the world has moved on. By remaining ever vigilant against the threat of factions the courier can set an example and ensure that humanity never reverts back to the horrors of mass organized violence of group against group. The wasteland is full of good people just as it is bad ones. But most of the time it is the good people who are hindered by one larger group or another and it is generally the bad people who end up leading masses of people against each other.

sawyer said this isn't the case, retard

if it wasn't a point of pride, morale would drop when they realize they're charging soldiers with fucking rifles while they have practically their limp dicks.

caesar is not stupid, he rules stupid savages. there is not one logical reason for it aside from supply shortages, saying "lol they're just stupid" is not a reason when a well educated man is ruling over them

indepedent and fixing everyones problem at least leaves everyone with a chance to live on, leaving the civilians to live on with a chance to fail is better than killing them and giving them a 100% chance to fail because they've been exterminated, at least just kill all of the factions (and their civilians) and be done with it, there is nothing to be gained by attempting to let native vegas citizens live in a libertarian paradise

Indeed. That is my view. The video is a close approximation.

who's to say the factions that develop after a century of chaos won't be just just as incompetent or even worse than the four main vegas factions?

There isn't a logical reason for a lot of the dumb roleplay shit the Legion does, but since you refuse to believe me Sailus (the captured Centurion) brags wholeheartedly about him and his men charging NCR firing lines. Other Caesar's Legion members treat it as bragging rites as well, yet despite your insistence not a single fucking one says they do it because they can't supply their soldiers with guns.
They have their own heartland with supposedly safe trading routes and are able to making their own currency, why wouldn't they be able to outfit their soldiers with guns?

I get what you're saying user, but it's simply pointless. The very nature of human beings guarantees you'll never be able to stop them from organizing and creating new groups. Wiping out House, the NCR and CL just makes it easier for groups of raiders to organize, rise up and terrorize New Vegas.
You never can and never will stop people from organizing into groups, it's pointless to try.

The Followers were the only competent faction even if they are pacifists (they are still armed).

Really the consecuencess of your actions are very shallow, i mean, take as an example that you make the tribes of Zion from HonestsHearts to stay so the Happy Trails Caravan can set a trade route that also connects whit the more innland USA states, so in the end New Vegas would become a Trade Post Between California and the South West states, of course this prosperity will not be materialised in the game, we, might not know which is the best ending and just can make conjetures

and are capable of*

AVE

Sueprise surprise

Huh?
Oh, shitposting flag. Carry on then.

because they are fighting a massive war against a stronger enemy that's fewer in numbers in a post-apocalyptic environment where resources are scarce. hell, even the generic soldiers wear football pads and other garbage as armor to indicate just how they need to scavenge for shit to survive, the machetes clearly look scavenged too

it's stated that recruits are given machetes and must scavenge guns, how does this tell you it's anything but a supply shortage? let me reiterate that sending men with machetes to fight armed soldiers is absolutely retarded which nobody disagrees with, the issue is that they are led by a very well educated man and the legion consists of strategists with at least above average intelligence (i.e. how they resort to terrorist attacks, using children as bait, basically using the NCRs sense of morality against them, etc.)

Well that's the problem you see. You gotta keep killing them off and keep allowing people to live without them until the very idea itself becomes a relic of the past. Kind of like how clans were replaced by kingdoms which were replaced by republics, empires, democracies etc. It would simply be the next step in how people tend to organize.

Read "The Last of the Masters" by Philip K. Dick. It's also worth noting that people lived without governments or large scale organizations for thousands of years. It's only relatively recently (in grand historical terms) that such large group organization became a thing, mostly due to the advent of agriculture. The world of Fallout however is not such a world where this is viable which is incidentally why the NCR tries to strong arm any farmers or ranchers into their regime and why the legion needs to constantly expand. If anything it is the idea of mass organization that is the outlier in human history.

Debatable. The followers are a quaint throwback to a bygone age of unrestricted altruism. They arguably hurt the world by shielding people from the consequences of their actions.

I've seen this thrown around a few times now, where is it mentioned that the NCR is fewer in number than the legion?
The NCR is big but their problem is that they're stretched out thin because they're trying to fully hold a massive territory.
Considering the legion's attitude that sounds to me more like a rite of initiation, trial by fire, etc. That's the sort of shit Caesar and his legion talk about a lot and it's pretty much the driving force behind their dogma.

And considering that they scavenge their guns from fallen enemies, it would've been pretty cool to see veteran legionaries using services rifles, implying they picked them off NCR soldiers. But that's neither here nor there.

Exactly how gay would they have made the legion if NV was released today?

Oh boy, you need to look up the Neon Genesis Evangelion fandom

Not at all, because Obsidian have a history of clinging to their shit politics like it's a life raft. If they decided to make the Legion sodomites, they'd be forced to appeal to the eternally upset harridans and soy boys. The end result be depicting the Legion as the "good faction" of federated noble savages. In doing so, the NCR would become the "ebil alt-right kkk drumpf" faction of imperialistic warmongering white men, which would be amazing to see.

IF THEY RUN, THEY'RE LEGION. IF THEY STAND STILL, THEY ARE WELL-DISCIPLINED LEGION.

The next step? What you're describing is regression. The only reason mankind was able to accomplish the feats it has is through organization.

What you're describing is not progress, it's not evolution, it's regression.
If you're some kind of dumbshit anarchist than I see how that appeals to you, but if you're someone who cares about your well being and the well being of those around you, it's a shit idea.

The very fact that you need to say "It'll totally work! You just gotta kill anyone who attempts to organize for a few hundred years before it sticks." is proof positive of how unnatural and bad of an idea it is.
And no Holla Forums, I'm not going to read a book about how your shit ideology is totally not shit.

I feel like they're more likely to turn house into a trump stand-in with the goal of turning the mojave into a civilized (white) utopia where no ghouls or raiders (niggers) are allowed. while the legion would be turned into a mostly ineffectual comedic villain.

Does the Legion saying the "degenerate" really tickle your prostates so much?

their dialogue annoys me a lot as a matter of fact

That is the only thing that explains OP's autism.

So they wouldn't change the legion at all then?

How does one get into doing voice work for mods?

New Vegas needs a form of government, Yes Man route could have truly liberated NV and could have formed a independent government. Many of your companions were set up in a way where they could have contributed in a way for this new independent state of NV. There are also quite a few influential figures like Chief Hanlon who isn't confident about NCR's well being even after the Legion beaten. Yes Man builds up to what a lot of people wanted from the beginning and then the writers just turn around and shit on it.

You just go where the modders go. I'm sure there are threads out there on places like the nexus where modders are asking for voice actors.

But user, people who are nationalistic and religious are *all* inherently liars, traitors, and hypocrites. Everyone who isn't a liberal is a liar because deep down they know they should be a liberal because liberalism is about self acceptance and toleration of other , unless you disagree with egalitarianism, humanism, and secularism in which case you are a secretly gay neo-nazi who can't get laid

Akshually, while I agree with you on everything, I'm going to call you a regressive because you act in a way I don't like. As a true progressive liberal, allow me to tell you why you're wrong, but first I'm going to make a frog joke. Ree normies. Now that I've proven my Internet credentials, allow me to tell you that neither you, nor the Nazis are correct, even though I agree with your fundamental values and thesis. As a radical centrist, who's a detached observer of your mainstream politics, I can tell you that you're both the same thing, due to the highly scientific and objectively true horseshoe effect. You need to rethink your life, buddy. ;^)

Fuck 3 Dawg, but other than that I really liked that quest.
It was ballsy a sfuck for some Bethesda dev to come out years later and say that quest was a metaphor for Muslim immigration into western societies.

See, I disagree. They get absolutely stomped while the Legion, NCR, and House are all viable power players.

Also, regardless of ignorant tribals, that same tech was used by one of them to basically gas a fair amount of territory. The expansions basically prove having uncontrolled technology that isn't even more tightly secured than the BoS's policies call for is inherently dangerous. Using that conclusion, the Legion or House would be the best choices from the perspective of "make sure extinction doesn't happen". NCR is shown to be so incompetent and easily corrupted I sure wouldn't trust some bureaucrat with potentially world ending technology. Their weakest point is structural and most of those WMDs are at the weakest section of their administration, the frontiers.

Further than that, we have Tunnelers coming soon, the Big MT may or may not be dealt with appropriately as well. In terms of practicality, I would argue for House. He may be condescending but he also has vision. As to the OP's point, his lack of control over affairs in NV proper comes from his police robots. They're enough to keep order but not enough to repel invasions. The battle of Hoover Dam is actually a bright spot if fought for House, imo. NCR is the most powerful faction that probably can't be trusted with advanced tech BUT are a reliable power base in a nearby area, they aren't even attacked by House. Threats are looming on the periphery of the Mojave, the Legion is nearly guaranteed to fall apart due to lack of succession as well as needlessly archaic practices, NCR is overstretched already, independence leads to anarchy, and House is literally the only faction leader with the means to really implement a good revitalization with ascendant power in time to face off against new threats. He has the longevity advantage as well. I would argue it's reasonable to be kind of conceited when you can effectively create a wasteland renaissance. Don't forget the reason Vegas wasn't as effected by the nuclear war was because of House's foresight and brilliance.

I go independent so I can kill everyone who looks darker than tan

Additional point for House:
His securitrons are not a large force, the player has to help get the largest group along with the aforementioned upgrades. NV is used to gain clout and profit while waiting for the rest of the bots. Freeside and the like DO get cleaned up once House is operational.
I'm not happy about the Kings getting the short end, the BoS didn't deserve it either, but House is the most capable leader/faction is he gets his bots.

Also, Fiends are objectively the best faction for the people.

Why? The Kings are assholes who force people to pay them for water.
Again, why? The BoS are tech obsessed assholes who go around stealing laser pistols from people traveling the roads.

You robbed this stupid shit straight out off Dune. It was dumb then, and it's still dumb now.

Not until the NCR fucked with them.

BoS are a pretty neutral faction that pretty much only takes tech that's dangerous. Their mandate is actually fairly sensible given the circumstance.

House is the devs choice, and it's the most interesting ending because all others give the legion or the ncr supremacy on the west coast. So house is 99% canon. Now cry me a river.

What are you talking about? It had something to do with Bill Ronte becoming addicted to chems, I don't remember any mention of the NCR.

Sure, tech that's dangerous. When they're doing that, they're actually being useful.
But when they're going around confiscating laser rifles and shit, they're just being assholes.

How bout you cry me a source?

The Kings don't get killed in every ending. House only kills them if you talked them into making an alliance with NCR or if you didn't touch the conflict at all. If you incite an all out war on NCR shills, House appreciates their loyalty to Vegas itself.

It's like House said. BoS confiscates only military tech, you never see them claiming useful and powerful civilian tech like autodocs, minor power plants, robot factories, etc.

I think you just proved yourself wrong, OP. Obama would by far be a worse choice than even House.

Yeah I know, but it's not like mankind is going to destroy itself with laser rifles. They're going around disarming people who were lucky enough to find a decent weapon and probably getting them killed in the process.

Check nexus threads for whatever game you like modding. Modders are often asking for voice actors to help.

Just play the game using your brain and you'll see. Mr. House is the only one that's not shit on. There is a whole dlc explaining why mr. House is the best choice. Also, the courier is not the bgs messiah, obsidian made him mortal. The courier has a number of ways to accomplish impossible tasks: blowing hidden valley, joining the boomers, killing tabitha, purging the legion from their bases… there is always a tool that makes it possible for a human. The courier can get some help even for less impossible tasks, like hunting down demons or purging the powder gangers.
But there is no help against mr. House. The courier is supposed to hack a terminal undetected (impossible thing to do, in fact the securitrons always aggro by script), fight ten securitrons (which are comparable to power armor soldiers lore wise) at once and then get in an elevator that somehow House can't control. The whole thing is silly and forced. Mr. House terminals are supposed to be top of the class, and that many securitrons should be able to turn everything into dust in a fraction of a second. The devs made it possible to give more options to the players, but lore wise it isn't possible. There was a quest to hack mr. House out of the lucky 38. The quest is practically done, the terminals are in the game too. It would have made a ton of sense to give the players an exploit against house, but the devs decided to cut it out. A subtle way to say "you are not supposed to kill house".

Great headcanon you have there, how long till I can read it on fanfic.net?

Admittedly the only niggers that needed to die were tenpenny himself and that ghoul.
If it was just tenpenny that got offed by that ghoul I would have no complaints since tenpenny would be getting his ==JUST== desserts.

Those retards had it coming. Who the fuck centers a town around an exposed nuclear bomb?

Bethesda could have made the entire town a collection of crazy nuclear cultists, it would help explain what kind of person lives near that kind of bomb. But they were too busy explaining how a town of children could exist.

Well at least he is being truthful.

Also anyone recommend me some similar RPGs to Fallout and Fallout 2, preferably with isometric view and turn based combat.

I still haven't got around to playing it, but Underrail is a CRPG set in a post-apocalyptic world, which seems to be a mixture of Fallout & Metro.

I see no reason to do that. Especially since The Courier's combat capabilities can directly impact the narrative.

Anyway, what DLC is everyone's favorite? Last time I played the game I ranked them

I'm not sure if I like Lonesome Road or Honest Hearts more than the other, they both kind of suck in their own way. I think Lonesome Road got kind of shafted since it was the last one I did and I was ready to be done with the game.

That's a pic from some old version. The UI looks slightly different now, inventory can be filtered by tabs for one. But yeah, aside from Wasteland, this is the next closest fit. It's good, it's going to get even better with upcoming expansion (no release date as of yet).

But who is the best waifu out of all wasteland?

FISTO, of course.
Or perhaps the stealth suit.

muh fella

How so?
I couldn't stand Dead Money because of the Cloud and *beep beep beep*
Honest Hearts was pretty boring, there needed to be more enemy variety.
Barring those two, for me its Lonesome Road then Old World Blues.

Stealth suit is only decent girl. Yandere AI assistant waifu will always be best waifu.

cass tbh
pretty much nobody else is fuckable

Whatever champ.

Stealth suit

Going guns blazing and wiping out an entire faction is pretty much always an option. I liked The Cloud, the radios kind of got gay in the final areas though. I was a big fan of how they upended everythig and shifted the power dynamics away from me, and forced me to actually do some thinking with how I was going to approach the gameplay for once.

Don't you like 'lolsoquirkydressesandstuffXD!!' girl user?

Compared to a fucking twig, a defective robot or a hotel room? I'll take my face on currency, thanks.

imagine the odor under those dark and heavy rags

And nobody else tries to cuck you. How about Lucy for someone fuckable?

Expand you horizons, nigga.

Fed to the white gloves.

Do you want to tell us something, user?

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>wanting some alcoholic skank who will fucking anyone if you're not around to do it
Awful choice user. Even Veronica is better.

Jesus those robes were a terrible design choice. Why not just stick her in some recon armor and call it a day?
And that fucking unremovable hood, Jesus.
Thank God for console commands.

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Should I play the DLC's in order of release or is there some sort of canon chronological order to it?

How about Icewind Dale, Planescape Torment or Baldur's Gate ?

Honest Hearts is pretty disconnected from the rest, but shouldn't be played last. Remaining ones are set up to flow the best in order of release.

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Just save Lonesome Road for last, there's a lot of story points that get brought up there, especially if you find Ulysses logs.

Fair enough. Is it mothership zeta disconnected or just runs parallel to the main plot?

Parallel to the main plot, it's about the kind of abo tribes that Legion is made of.

I mean, those are all decent games, but this is a Fallout thread, not a CRPG thread, my fellow user. Try out the Wasteland games, too. You might enjoy them.

From memory, it's just a disconnected parallel plot that's kind of dull but has one of the best characters in the game in it.

i don't believe bethesda is stupid enough to try to make it canon but i could very well be fooled

Not what that user was talking about, but Fallout 4 pretty much confirmed that Mothership Zeta was canon, and also that there are ancient alien ruins in the Mojave desert that can give you psychic powers and immortality.

Also, magic is now a thing in Fallout. Just straight up magic, teleportation, cloning, all that shit.

Synths weren't even cloned. They were 3D printed from replicated tissues. The real magic stuff is children of atom being somehow completely immune to radiation without showing signs of mutation or these ghouls trapped in a fridge/submarine who survived 2 centuries without food or water. And the magic ayy artifact shit.

If I were to take anything for canon out of F4, that would background info on pre-war world. Everything post-war aside from maybe the Gunners is just pants on head retarded.

not like it matters anyway, rpg games rely on you using your imagination, fallout 4 is just the nightmare of a pre-war veteran junkie with ptsd

Looking at it that way, it might actually make sense. The pre-war Boston was built to look like Fisher-Price libshit utopia, but under the hood it was made on a shoestring budget and malfunctioned all the time. Rural hippies and conservative whites got their shit pushed in; megacorps polluted the rural areas and even the ocean just to enable the illusion of comfy life for the urban kiddies. MIT was full of jews and SJWs. The world ended, reasonable people had gone extinct and the drug fueled paranoia makes the PC see the urban SJW menace and pulp magazine bullshit around every corner.

Of course not. Bethesda holds a strange grudge against Obsidian and completely refused to acknowledge anything from NV as canon in Fallout 4 despite the fact that NV made several references to 3.

Probably butthurt that they made a better Fallout game than they ever could.

Say what you will, but at least Bethesda has the good sense to keep their shitty games and atrocious lore (aliens excluded) bottled up in the east coast. That way, even if they're technically canon, we can pretend they don't exist for the most part, because they're practically spin-offs, like Tactics & BoS. Could you imagine what the result would be if they made a game set in the west?

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Who are you to ask for an apology?

She's also in her 40s.

The hood was unremoveable because veronica is incredibly self concious about her hair. She's even bullied about it when she goes home to the BOS.

It was essentially Zero Escape: Post-Nuclear Apocalypse Version. It was my least favorite of the DLC's too, Old World Blues was pretty neat though.

Not what I was referring to either. The DLC for Fallout 4, Nuka World, has a guy who literally has magic. There's a terminal you can read where it's revealed that he has actual magical abilities brought on by radiation. So yeah, expect radiation magic in Fallout 5.

Fallout 4 is not canon
Fallout 5 will not be not canon
The Fallout universe ceased to exist after NV
Please do not deny me this

Dr. Dala

The best thing about it was pre-war lore. Mexicans on starvation wages dying in endless accidents while Sinclair and his buddies enjoyed magic machines creating everything they could dream of out of thin air.

Yeah the lore was cool, but I don't think Sinclair enjoyed the Sierra Madre all that much if I remember correctly. He built the place as a tomb, which would probably explain why he didn't really care about the quality of work being done all around the place.

If I remember correctly he started out legitimately wanting to build a high tec resort (that doubled as a haven against the coming nuclear apocalypse) until he found out he was being cucked and betrayed by his gf. He stopped caring and his sole objective was to make the ghoul trap himself in the tomb that was the Sierra Madre.

Seems to be the Sinclair was on the level of House (even more brilliant due to the scientific magic he was achieving at the Sierra Madre) but unlike house he was subject to emotional ties.

Kill me.

sunny literally looks like a tranny there

What's wrong with fallout 4 factions? Railroad are stupid (and probably set up by the enclave), but the others fit the universe.

thread derailed

Rose exists only to make friends with the van graff. She has no other purpose.

Great argument, I changed perspective. Legion 100% canon because it makes sense to remove the ncr from the universe. Thanks user, now could you go back to reddit?

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Yeah, but mine is worse than I see in other screenshots.

fuckin muties

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nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/56198/

No need to thank me.
Although if you want you can send dick pics via email

Shit, see this is what I don't get. In this image the color is just fine (I don't mind the seam, nothing you can do) but in my image the color is shit.

It's because you can see the seam, once you install the necklaces, even if there's a color difference there, you will not notice it
Your eyes are fucky and work in stupid ways

The technology wasn't invented by Sinclair. He was just filthy rich and made a deal with Big MT. He would fund some of their projects in exchange for their experimental tech. Big MT, his gf and pretty much everyone else kept screwing him over, that's what pushed him over the edge.

So, we can all agree that NCR is the best faction and any other "faction" is OBJECTIVELY shit?

nope

independent wild west style towns are objectively better
any centralized form of power is doomed to repeat

what the wasteland needs are lots of places like goodsprings,novac, and prim without ncr,house,or legion control

this is the most american opinion available

See you soon, profligate :^)

The Railroad, like you said, make no fucking sense. In a world that's constantly being besieged by giant roided out green men, raiders out the ass, and where human slavery is still running rampant, the idea that a bunch of SJW humans banded together to save synths is fucking retarded.

The brotherhood shouldn't even be a thing at this point, but Beth keeps shoving them in for marketability. Now they've gone from Paladins with a fetish for tech to literally Hitlers who want to ethnically cleanse the Wasteland.

The Minutemen are an afterthought faction without any actual content. They don't have any presence in the Wasteland whatsoever and despite being the leader of them you're the one who runs out and does all the bitchwork. Complete ass faction.

The Institute have literally no motivation. They have no end-goal, I'm still not really sure what they're trying to achieve, you can't ask anybody about it or confront them about all the sketchy shit they do, and if you take control you can't change the way they operate or do any of the actual cool shit you'd expect.

And I could've tolerated that if she wore something other than a burlap sack. Her design was terrible for the ground up, bad hair was just the icing on the shit cake.

Take a step back and realize how mind-blowingly retarded you sound and most likely are

I hope you know Caesar literally runs interracial breeding grounds.

Despite what you might want to believe Caesar is not the Mojave Wastelands 4th Reich.
Caesar is quite literally a Zionist Jew veiwing himself to be a God with a divine right to rule over a mob of Mojave Mystery Meat.
4:14 in the embedded video.

Stop responding to him retard, look at his other terrible posts. Just filter and move on.

Nice words. They'll protect you from the Legion coming down to wipe out your isolated town, then the next, and so on.

...

meant for

Nice football pads. They'll protect you from the bullets coming down to wipe out your backwards LARP tribe, then the next, and so on.

...

What is there to comprehend? You think a faction of role-playing, skirt wearing faggots is worth a damn and it's funny.
Learn to laugh at yourself, everyone else does.

maybe you don't comprehend the string of posts whose context you ignored? lmao enjoy your corruption and cattle barons while your wealth plummets in a losing war against a step above tribals

Again, it was just a bunch of posts where you cock rode the legion. You make no sense and look a little more retarded with every post.
Keep posting boy, clowns usually charge for this.

flawless logic

pic related

your grammar is shit.

you're argument is nonexistent

They're both pretty shit, for obvious reasons, but they're still better than being Mr. House's nigger or the Followers of Antifa ruling New Vegas in your stead.

caring about post numbers in a 3 day old thread
Just how desperate can one redditor get?

Are you talking about the Deathclaws in Sloan? That's not a very fair example, Deathclaws ain't nothing to fuck with.
I've always found the whole "Legion is super duper strong" thing to be very immersion breaking seeing as anytime I see the NCR go up against the legion in-game they wreck their shit, because football pad armor and charging gun wielding soldiers with melee weapons is every bit as dumb in practice as it is in theory.

maybe if your head wasn't bobbing on a cattle baron's dick you could see i was shit-talking a guy who said no government was best government but your sperging enough that it's easy to see how you're not really paying attention

remember to swallow for the bureaucrats back west :^)

They're still wildlife, which the NCR roused through negligence and failed to remove. By doing so, it directly impacted their efforts at improving infrastructure and military logistics.
That's funny, because unless I intervene on the side of the NCR, it always seemed to be the other way around.

That's funny, because unless I intervene on the side of the NCR, it always seemed to be the other way around.
i agree, legion NPCs are much stronger than NCR NPCs, legion always wrecks their shit (which makes no sense but it still happens nonetheless)

Right, I'm sure all that Legion cock surrounding you while you did it was pure coincidence.
I'm surprise they even want you, I hear the centurions like em' young ;^)

No, the context matters a lot here. It's not like they let Sloan fall to a horde of mole rats or some Yao-Gaui, it's at least a dozen Death Claws in there. They'd need a full battalion to clear them out, and that's not something they have the luxury of doing with Caesar right across the dam.
Do you have the Caesar's New Regime mod installed? Because that actually gives the Legion a fighting chance, but back when I played the game vanilla every time I saw a legion patrol run into an NCR patrol, it was an NCR win every time. Mainly because only one out of 3 Legionaries had a gun while the other chucked spear and the last one died comically in a doomed machete charge.

You know that scripted event where the legion ambush a 4 person Caravan? They can't even beat those guys consistently in my game.

fucked up the greentext

The perennial excuse of NCR fanboys and one that only exists because the NCR's high command consists of thumb sucking retards. Like in everything else they do, the NCR failed to realize the self-evident hazards in their actions and the environment and paid the price. They awoke a hive of deathclaws for the same reason they failed to put down a prison riot and allowed entire towns to get taken out by riotous convicts, or allow the Legion to cross the river on a frequent basis, or lost Searchlight, or allowed Nipton to be burned to a crisp even though it's right next to the Mojave Outpost. Face it, the NCR is a shit show.

of course the NCR's a shitshow, the fact that they are practically equal to a faction that literally wears football pads and brings sharp metal into combat explains this pretty blatantly

How about the ghoul that could actually use radiation magic?

Something pointed out in the story at pretty much every opportunity is an excuse now?
Shit do all of you legionfags have brain tumors?
Why the fuck would the NCR dedicate a huge number of troops to clearing Deathclaws out of a strategically insignificant area while Caesar's Legion is poised to attack them? Are you retarded?
The rest of your post is just bitching about the NCR not being omnipotent Mary Sues boyscouts with the ability to predict the future.
How would they know there was a Deathclaw nest behind some stones in the quarry? Why would they care if a town that doesn't pay the taxes required to keep the NCR running gets wiped out? A town that willingly sold out NCR soldiers to the Powder Gangers I might add.

Were the Vietcong and Taliban equal in strength to the U.S. Army? No, which is why they used guerrilla tactics instead of frontal assaults, same as the legion.
It doesn't take a lot of thinking to figure these things out user.

nobody in either of those groups charged armed soldiers with a machete, and if they did charge a soldier with a pointy thing they went six feet under in less than a second

Just like the Legion does.

Thread hit bump limit a while ago, someone make a new one so I can school you fags on how great the NCR is.

Their military strategy is awful because their commanders are incompetent, just like every other person in a position of leadership within the NCR. It's an excuse when you handwave every failure with "Legion camp."
Why wouldn't they redeploy troops from a garrison to eradicate hostile wildlife that's preventing infrastructure for military logistics? They do it to help people when the powder gangers attack their town, after all. Also, the Legion's been poised to attack them for five years.
No, it's an explanation of how routinely incompetent they are.
Basic reconnaissance is necessary for mineral extraction.
Because it's in their territory and on the only road to Vegas. Jesus, are you fucking retarded or something?

no you

Even the most ardent Legionfag admits that Hanlon has his head on straight, now you're just being a faggot.
Because those troops are needed at their garrison and not on some suicide mission to clear out a strategically insignificant quarry. And stop overhyping Sloan, they use it to make concrete barriers. Until Sloan is cleared out sandbag barriers fit the role, Sloan is not that important.
By your standard anything short of omnipotence is incompetence. Get your head out of your ass.
The Deathclaws were in a cave that they opened up while excavating, short of seeing through walls there was no way to know they were there.
It's not a town that pays taxes therefore its useless to them. Only a fucking retard devotes resources to something that they stand nothing to gain from, probably why you think it's such a big deal.

Obama is NCR

But the Followers and the Railroad are nothing alike.
One tries to uplift the people of the wasteland by teaching them agriculture and other useful things, while the other are a bunch of tumblrfags who think toaster lives matter.

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That's the only alternative huh? Sounds like Legion creep to me laddo.

*IF* they were running it but they've pulled out and lost control of it so it becomes a 'starve to deathcamp' which forces the inmates to take over and then that's *another* problem for the locals which is the fault of the NCR leaving shit to rot.

Depending on the disposition of The Courier at the start, the NCR can come off looking like a 'Road to hell is paved with good intentions' option that pragmatism and awareness of consequence make it difficult, if not impossible, to wholeheartedly throw their/your weight behind without feeling at least a little ill. Even if you go in wanting to help the NCR their shine quickly gets tarnished then rusted, you might not jump ship to Legion but House/Yes Man start to look a lot better as one goes.

It's a shame The Brotherhood are douches and subject to retardedly shortsighted leadership.

This is what bothers me a bit about true (west coast) Fallout. Leftist retards assume that their ideas come true when their ideas are not the natural state of humanity, the media brainwashing people with liberal garbage is required for the massive influx of mexicans to ever be accepted by the American people. The NCR is far too liberal, easygoing, and similar to all cancer plaguing the west in 2017 considering the fact that they're a post-apocalyptic military without any jews to brainwash them into these ideals.

I think it's best for the Brotherhood to never be a viable faction for control, if you could change them for the better then they would just be the mary sue faction because of their pre-war military grade equipment.

The divergence occurred right after WW2 and Chris Taylor made a point about annexation of Canada being there to tell you how wildly different the world and its geopolitics became. There isn't a single reason for idiotic anchor baby laws and dozens of millions illegal spics later granted amnesty to be a thing in the Fallout universe. There was no UN or other bullshit "human rights" organizations. Absolutely nothing stood in the way of shooting spics or chinks on sight, the US was isolationist and not playing the role of world police. Conversely, there should be no foreign influence on burger culture.

Do you want to be ruled or to rule?

You want to be ruled.

Nope

Yeah faggot, it is. You either get shot and killed for your crime or you have to serve time for it. What other alternatives do you think there are kiddo? Just letting them go?
I disagree entirely. Helping the NCR right their wrongs just makes them that much more appealing to me. You seem to have a very pessimistic view of things, the NCR in particular. I don't understand why, they're nowhere near as bad as people try to make them out to be.
They're the only faction that seems to give a shit about their citizens. They operate two refugee camps and even run a relief effort for their citizens in places hostile to them like Freeside. They have their problems but they're doing a lot more good than bad.

The NCR is trying to rebuild a society that closely resembles our own. Like theirs, our society is riddled with corruption and ineptitude, but despite all that we still have the highest standard of living in human history.