City Builders

Cities skylines really is shallow. It all comes down to traffic management in the end, and to fix it you have to build retarded road designs or rely on mods that overhaul how traffic works.
It's literally designed to not be as compact/dense city simulator and be just a hipster park builder. The (((climate change))) expansion didn't help either, it's a fucking game no need to push this retarded meme, also why not nuclear expansion or something to pollute the fuck out of everything.

Honestly, fuck paradox.

Any City Builders out there with actual gameplay, realistic enough visuals to appreciate the cityscape you've built, and with a focus on modern glass and steel towers mixed with older stonework? A heavy focus on traffic management would also be nice, but it has to actually work properly.
Basically I'm looking for:
>NuSC's gameplay as it was presented without all the shit being broken and retarded and fucking terrible and packed into a 100m maximum city size cube
SC4 is fine and all, but I'm tired of looking at top-down or isometric grids. I want to zoom around my city and see it from a citizen's eye view.

Games set in older time periods, or with focus more on politics or economics than city and traffic planning just don't really do it for me; Anno, Tropico, Caesar and all of those are fine games, but just not my cup of tea. I want to get properly autistic but also have some gorgeous visuals at the end of it all.
Pretty sure I'm shit outta luck, though. High quality city builders don't exactly grow on trees.

The hand holding is also out of control.
>unlock healthcare and garbage
>unlock more things
I've literally never had a city fail in C:S, whereas it took some tries until I got a city to turn a profit in Sim City 4.

All you can do is take that grid, and make it your bitch.

half of those are either transport simu man though, and capitalism=city builder, wut?

tropico is shit, anno is technically different genre
what other sierra games are you talking about?

have you checked forest village too?
its basically newer banished, but not fleshed out mechanics yet

I'm afraid this game will flounder, because it seems as if it was made with graphics first, and mechanics second, which usually means most of the planned mechanics will never be implemented.

I don't know were you live but in Europe they have very stringent air pollution criteria.

So not being able to just build lots of highways makes sense from a realism point.

yeah, I think the game will ultimately fail too
the graphics are gorgeous and environment land is pretty cool, but they seem all over the place regarding features
like the first person thing, its totally unnecessary and shifts their focus instead of making a solid base game

Weren't the stronghold games basically city management mixed with RTS?

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The first bit is likely to keep the miniaturized scale of the game consistent, for balance issues. You'll only need a handful of power plants to provide for the entire 300K population region if not for that. The second is just stupid; even SimCity recognized that the biggest polluters were the cheapest per unit energy produced.

Even worse is that coal plants designed in the last twenty years barely produce pollution and windmills produce so little power you might as well have people running in hamster wheels powering your city.

Depends on the size of the windmill. The really fucking huge ones are rated for 3MW, but generally only put out an average of .5MW due to wind variability. That's still a drop in the bucket compared to a 500MW coal plant, but for scale reasons it's retarded in Skylines because .5MW is enough to power several hundred homes.

It's also disingenuous to say coal plants don't pollute because they have scrubbers in their smokestacks, because that doesn't change all the pollution from mining, collecting, and transporting all the coal to the plant in the first place; and burning anything produces CO2 by the tons. Also, all the scrubbers do is prevent the waste products from entering the air by capturing them… creating liquid or solid waste that is almost as toxic as nuclear waste, and must be disposed of somewhere, usually in vast ponds that often leak into groundwater. I won't even get into what happens with the water used for the steam turbines.

In sum: you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, and have only listened to what GOP pundits have told you about "clean coal"

And how much pollution is produced by manufacturing several thousand giant metal eyesores to power a small town? Which you still need to supplement with fucking coal, natural gas, or nuclear power because these fucking things barely produce enough for a neighborhood let alone a fucking city all while costing a fuckton more money than the other power plant that you need to build just to fucking supplement your dumbass giant fan.

Less.

Cost won't matter when there isn't any coal left to burn. But that'll be after you are dead, so why should you care when you can INCREASE PROFIT TODAY!

Good then we can just burn gasoline made of corn. You know the actually smart green energy choice that produces more energy than buying a pet store full of hamsters and putting them in a turbine.

Green energy will eventually replace modern forms of power production. EVENTUALLY. Presently they're more of a science project than an actual way to make cheap power.

Maybe if every house had a small solar array it would be worth it, but you have to consider the price per watt. 700W solar panels may cost a fuck ton of money, and that's not considering installation or any other extraneous things you may need. 700W isn't even enough to run my microwave. Again, maybe in 20 years it will be better, but for the foreseeable future, like 99% of green energy is just hypotheticals and science projects.

You know how I can tell you've never worked with radioactive material before?

We literally have so much coal right now that mining companies can barely turn a profit because of gross oversupply. We probably could stop mining for 10 years and not run out of coal.

Renewables have their place, and they will have their time, but not for a while.

And communism will finally work too, right?

Go play in traffic instead of spreading your retatdation around here

Try again.

At the rate we're going it won't be until our star goes fucking supernova. Hell we haven't even begun mining all of the fuel in our fucking solar system. Just think of all the shit we could burn for energy just fucking floating up there. All this energy crisis shit is just to scare people into buying stupid shit like solar panels.

No thank you

I'd like to keep my brain cells intact

m8, the best household energy system I've heard of is geothermal but it's a heavy long term investment at it's cheapest. Economics is a huge factor in all of this, should we ever break into space then yeah we'll be increasing power output of electricity via solar and other forms of energy up the fucking gills.
That said unless someone can publicly develop[ Nicola Tesla's ideas without committing suicide it may happen much sooner.

To play devils advocate for a moment, solar panels are nice because they provide passive energy and often storage into a battery. And it's mobile and non volatile. It's not a bad idea on paper. Of course you have production costs and replacement/upkeep but on a top level view, it does seem like it would reduce the envionrmental impact (eg strip mining and waste water)

Of course, the manufacturing of solars could be just as bad, depending on the process chain to create them

Also, does anyone else like Caesar series?

I enjoyed the ancient aesthetic, as well as the "walker" system for supplying buildings, as well as the supply chaining

But that'll be after you are dead, so why should you care when you can INCREASE PROFIT TODAY!

Like talking to brick walls.

Oh look, more people who don't know what they're talking about! Tell me: do you run your fucking microwave all day long?

Solar is competitive in many places right now. At this rate it will easily outcompete the more regulated industries in the near future. Solar can power microwave ovens and whatever else our grid currently powers.

Solar is not like the other "green energies" though because it isn't shit. Lumping them together is just disingenious. Solar has a future that wind does not.

This is assuming neither nuclear nor fusion are allowed to compete of course.

Yeah they're real nice until a bird hits it and fucking cracks the damn thing.

Is this where kilowatt hours come into play?

Wind energy is only feasible if you put craptons of them in places where it's not going to be used for anything else, like mountains or offshore.

But we can't have that because it'll spoil the pretty views the rich people pay so much for.

Also there is probably enough coal and oil in the earth to power everyone's home until the heat death of the universe and even if there wasn't bio-fuel can be made out of garbage and works just as well as oil. Tell me do you live in Californian because you sound like someone who owns stock in wind energy.

No we can't have that because it would ruin the environment as those fucking eyesores kill thousands of birds every year. Do you want to make all birds stop existing so you can jerk your self off about how green your power grid is?

Nothing I love more than politics on Holla Forums.

Sure there are problems with the model they use. They seem to optimize traffic by distance traveled with zero regard to traffic density, which is a ridiculous way to do it. While they tried to improve the traffic model from SC4, it hasn't improved enough to warrant any praise.

On the other hand, I think half of the people that complain about this don't know how to design roads in urban cities. I feel like most of these people are just gridfags who think there's nothing wrong with having an intersection every five feet. You can't just plop down high density residential on the first roads you built and expect everything to just work. Anything larger than a suburb requires planning ahead.

Just research how electricity works. People are throwing out 'watts' as though they knew what it meant. KWh arent even the same unit of thing as watts.

Wind is just bad from a strictly technical point of view in the overwhelming majority of cases. I'm sure there are plenty of rich faggots who like the sight of windmills.

Problem is if they invested in them they wouldn't be rich for long.

But again nuclear and especially fusion methods are the real energy of the future. But politicians can't get money from or give money to industries that don't yet exist.

Yes.

Also, "700 watts" is what you would get from two or three of those 2'x3' solar panels. Nobody just has that. Most homes can be completely energy-independent with about 30 of them, which is entirely possible for like $50,000. You also have to take into account that the solar radiation is being captured instead of being absorbed into the roof, so it functions as insulation which slightly lowers cooling costs.

user, it's better to let people think you're an idiot, than to open your mouth and confirm their suspicions. Most experts think we've already hit peak oil or will within 50 years; it's mathematically guaranteed we'll run out entirely in a couple hundred years at most, contingent on population growth. Per capita, oil actually peaked in 1979.

They've been talking about fusion power for sixty years. There were even "fusion plants" in SimCity2000. But there has been so little progress made, that I worry it's never actually going to happen.

my brother of african american descent

They were saying we were going to be almost completely out around 2010-2015 back in 2009ish and yet there is still enough left for people to flood the market to kill their competition. Some energy crisis especially since we have combustion engines that run off of alcohol right now and have had them for over a century. Are we going to run out off corn to burn for fuel too?

i'll fite you

It isn't fun after awhile because it's so easy to just give everyone what they want. I have to actually oppress factions of people to get any fun out of the game since it's so easy to please everyone.

You don't understand anything. You literally don't. The first estimates for peak oil disregarded "unconventional sources", such as those in the deep sea and in coal sands. With new technology such as fracking, these unconventional sources are being tapped, but only because oil has become more expensive so it's economically feasible to do so. But the new estimations DO take all the other sources into account. Did you miss the part I said about "per capita"? The world population is still increasing, and will probably only level out when we hit 10-15 billion or so, but peak oil per capita hit when we only had 4 billion (and this doesn't take into account that most of the population growth is occurring in countries that are increasing their use of petroleum per capita because they are becoming richer). Which means that by the only metric which matters oil production has been in a decline for nearly 40 years.

All the corn is grown using petroleum-derived fertilizer. So it's more of a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't. Biofuel is a publicity stunt, nothing more.

Nigger you can make that shit out of anything food waste, potatoes, corn, fruit, algae, seaweed, and FUCKING PEOPLE. Anything that was alive at some point can be made into goddamn gasoline.

The fun thing is that meme image is pretty much 100% relevant as it was from a video where he was complaining that you can't have a comfy 18th century cooking channel without stupid political shitstorms.

So why aren't we powering our internet hate machines with commie blood?

Because people who own the oil companies want to make money so they give bribes to their friends in the government to not make power plants that run on lawn clippings and dead commies.

Because it's hard to collect blood from a commie that has been splatted after a helicopter ride

Yes, of course. Anything made of carbon can be refined into sugar, which can be refined into alcohol, which can run in any engine that accepts diesel (don't try it in a gasoline-fueled engine, though). But it takes energy, and therefore power and money to perform this refining, and far in excess of what has to be done to oil. It's not "free energy" (like renewable power is). The reason why oil works is because millions of years being underground has done much of the refining already. It's still just a publicity stunt, especially regarding corn.

Also, a million debates over The Matrix proved that growing human requires more energy than they put out (whether you stick them in pods or burn them). This is basic physics.

That's why I used it.

But you want to use solar and wind power both of which cost more money and energy to produce than alcohol which was created thousands of years before electricity existed? Wow and you call me stupid.

What the fuck are you talking about?

You literally just conceded the argument. Good job.

People have been making alcohol since the dawn of fucking time you moron longer than power plants have existed. How is making alcohol harder than manufacturing solar panels and wind turbines? Christ you are retarded.

No user, you are the retard

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Making alcohol isn't harder, but it costs money to do so. Also, you can't bitch about the manufacturing costs of solar panels when the power plants that would burn this hypothetical alcohol also have to be manufactured, and are much more complex and expensive.

You're just a goddamn moron. Accept it.

They made a series of games literally called the City Builder series. Caesar (up to 4 IIRC), Pharaoh, Zeus and Emperor. All good games, though Emperor is the most polished in my opinion. I have a soft spot for Zeus even though it is the most simplistic. I never played Caesar 4, but I remember III being ballbustingly hard in the later missions. Pharaoh is just all around solid, I really like the setting.
I HAVE COME DOWN… FROM MOUNT OLYMPUS!

I should say published, my bad

Well, fuck. Guess it's time to post more of bestgame.

I actually prefer Sim City 5 over 4

I would just LOVE to hear why.

Graphics

Upgrades for individual buildings so i don't have to spam dozens of water pumps and power plants around town to sustain my city

No annoying advisors crying in my face
whenever something goes wrong

wurm unlimited

Graphics are a minor concern and largely subjective. Personally, I hated the graphics of 5 because they were too cartoony.

The upgrades were pretty nice, but then again in SC4 the larger power plants and pumps could sustain an entire city, and were "unlocked" via population milestones in much the same fashion. Also, the cities in 5 are so small that even a tiny power plant would be enough for them.

In no iteration of SimCity were the advisors "in your face". In 4 they were practically invisible unless you went looking, and were pretty damn unhelpful. Also, in earlier installments they were at least funny.

I'm probably autistic but i just like zooming in and checking how good my city looks on street level. It's a nice touch and it helps decide where and what to build next

I find SC5 better and more realistic when it comes to things like powerplants. For a larger city in SC4 I'd need to place at least 3 nuclear power plants to sustain it while in 5 just one is enough and with no upgrades at all. I agree plots of land are insanely small, but i'm still able to pull off large populations if i plan out density well

Advisors in 4 were utterly useless and just annoying. At least advisors in 5 pinpoint to actual important shit without popping out every second

Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE if if a city builder worked like SC4 but was in full 3D and zoomable with close details and stuff. Sadly, it's just not in the cards, and the issues I have with modern city builders prevent me from enjoying them.

I like to at least try to balance out the macro-level planning of large city tiles in SC4 with the closest details you can get, where I'm essentially doing pixel-art with individual tiles.

I haven't used advisors in… fuck, like 15 years because I've gotten good enough with SimCity to play entirely by instinct with all the complex variables. I don't honestly remember how useful they were, beyond the basics of "not much", but I never used them the few times I played 5, anyway.

I started making my own pemmican and meat pies after seeing this nigga do it. Such a wholesome channel.

Fallout 4

Just go play NV. Settlement system is not something Bethesda came up with.
nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/36922/?
They stole it from mod. It already was here since Fallout 3.

I still dont get how to install mod's on pirated copy.

I really want a Rhodesian/African city builder. Either to play as Whitey in an alternate Tropico or as Kang Tutatutauttkambululukajie the Third as he rebuilds his empire out of post-colonial Zimbabwe by letting his kin live in mud houses like his ancestors had wanted.

A-Train 9 V3 is hardcore autism mode, build roads and railways, make autistically worked out timetables to maximize your workload, supply cities with cargo to Keep them growing because you don't wanna build anything yourself since you pay taxes out the ass for properties

Also Banished

Whether it's a legit or a pirated copy, it should have created a "SimCity 4" folder in your documents folder (or maybe you'll have to search for it elsewhere) upon install, separate from the game files; every SC game has done this, though previous versions put them in other places. This is the folder where all your save games go, in a subfolder called "Regions". There is also another subfolder called "Plugins". Put the folders of mod files in there.

Fuck, this thread died fast.

people are burned out, and of course there aren't actual gamers in Holla Forums

this is a lie,
I feel the same way but for the opposite reason, most people I see being shit at this actually put a single big road on major neighborhoods and industrial districts, then of course they gonna hanged up to shit, where literally every traffic between there is being to pass through that one choke point
besides that no one fucking seems to understand the concept of: industry near major arteries, commercial central, and residential surrounding, instead its always some retardation designs

there's literally only one good city building game.

It's too bad. This game is really comfy, and I'd play it more often if anyone else did.

Many thanks.

Posting my ugly City.

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I like monorails.

Boring grid feeder city coming through.
Yes I'm using NAM.

I know that this is an extremely unpopular opinion, but i love simcity 5.
The game feels far more fluid and polished than skylines.
In skylines you only need one city, in simcity, a city can only do one thing, thus requiring you to get around limits.
Like the city hall expansions, you need to focus min maxing the space in simcity, in skylines you really dont need to do that.

yeah, like the server crashing
SimCity 5 isn't much fun to play for any length of time to be honest. The space limitations in SC5 feel way too artificial and dumb.

Its offline now.
And you can just move resources between cities.
For me atleast, the space restrictions add difficulty.

Cities Skylines pissed me of thanks the dumb ass housing shit, it's weird as shit and the mod that tries to fix it basically breaks the game and makes it extreme hard to get somewhere

SC5 removed 90% of the complexity from 4, which makes any additional difficulty added by the space restrictions a bit moot. But anyway, I mostly just play for the aesthetic at this point. In 5 you are basically building "toy cities", where they are representative of a city in regards to services and industries, but nothing is to proper scale. I feel as if the tilt-shift graphics imply that this sort of thing was intentional; it was never meant to be a realistic sim at all.

Should i separate Economic sector from Living sector?

Wow you fucking gays. You want gameplay? You'd better plan right or your entire city will be destroyed. There's your gameplay.

I went for a drive today and really got me wondering for a city builder of quality
CSL really fits the bill, it manages to nail traffic and road management where can you can get satisfied making spaghetti junctions
it manages to put together a big sprawling region so you make either a big scale metropolis (big game scale) or several small connected districts
I do feel though they fell shorthand and had to cut the game short and more casualized,
since it was the first time they taking into the genre and against such a once big franchise
and indeed it was a big success, at least initially, until the pointless dlc started to come out
what remains to see is if they will strive for something better and more detailed next time or ride the casual wave

My negro. Am I a pussy for not playing the maps with invasions? I just want to build a nice roman city unmolested.

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Because of the agent system, the entire region is effectively capped at around 300,000 population. With mods that give infinite demand, you can get that up to close to a million, but after that the game stops working properly. The region, even if you mod it, will only be 9x9 tiles (81 plots) but you probably could never hope to fill them all until you hit that cap.

The biggest region I've ever dared to make in SimCity4 was an about 20x20 tile monstrosity (400 plots), and I could stuff a hundred million people in there if I wanted.

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Try Lethis - Path of Progress.

Nice. I like how the main avenues kinda meander about with no respect for an overall grid. It's very European.

Do people here actually not believe the bajillion of scientists and their thousands of hours of research? Huh.

I kinda got burnt out with Simcity 4 too quickly. I should honestly play some more Banished again sometimes. That game is a load of fun.

Sim City 4
Sim City 3000
Sim City 2000
Tropico(Pirate it though, the devs are kikes)
Cities Skylines is a fucking idiotic game. The only thing it is good as is as a traffic simulator… But even then it fails miserably.

one fun thing about SC4 is how you can literally make poor neighborhoods and slums, people boxes that are actually functional
but the regional limit, having to jump from city to city, always bugged me down
plus fucking farms were a nightmare to place (or was it another SC?)

I can hear one of the advisers screaming at you.

Farms in 3000 were a pain (requiring strict manipulation of variables and then historically designating every tile so it wouldn't turn to industry buildings). 4 makes it easy because you can zone for only farms. The only real problems are that demand for them goes away when you get any real development going, and fruit trees turn black from "traffic pollution".

It's a downtown; what do you expect? Some of those intersections have 1000+ traffic.

And they only scream at me for building mostly horizontally instead of vertically. So what if I want to fill the whole map tile with farms and suburbs before even thinking about skyscrapers? That's kinda how it works. Fuck your toy cities.

Did farm's require water and electricity?

Im thinking about trying Children of the nile game, is it any good?

Holy shit, I had forgotten about Stronghold. Not exactly city building, I'd call it RTS with focus on base building, but they were damn good. (Or at least that's how I remember them.)

Electricity, yes; water, no.

What about High tech Industry? Does it have a lower polution? Can i place High tech inside main city?

They're pretty good, I just wish there had been an endless horde mode.

Seems accurate. I don't know what the fuck I'm doing or what the fuck I'm even supposed to do in order for my city to grow. I regret spending money on it.

Any tips?
I take it there might be downloadable maps available somewhere but i don't know if they would be trash or not

I built my best cities in Londinium. I still remember hitting the building limit without even filling a third of the map, comfy times. Too bad about that path-finding logic though.

Yes, give it a y'arr.

No matter what city-builder I play, I try not to plan too far ahead, because I always wind up letting myself down for not accounting for something or some ratio that requires me to change plan, and I never like doing that. Plus, that's kind of how real cities do things anyway.

i like C:S because it shows the individual people and what they are doing rather than having to guess whats gone wrong in simcity 4

Planning ahead is the worst thing you can do. It's better to just build organically. Here's something I typed up as a "tutorial" if you will, for my own style of play: pastebin.com/FmHCjuzn

As for maps, I've always preferred to use real-world terrain. It's a bit involved and complex to do this, but there's easy-to-follow tutorials for that, and it doesn't require any special skills or paid software. If not, there are some good maps around that you can download. Just avoid anything that's flat; rough terrain forces variety.

what is the point of farms in SC4 by the way

play modded banished instead of this soulless clone

light industry that i think you only needed to give electricity and a road to. There were some rewards to unlock from having so many farm jobs.

plus if you were trying to create a realistic looking world, you would include farms outside the city.

Easy starter jobs, doesn't produce air pollution, doesn't take much power, and can work with the dumbest sims living in tiny houses with no services in the area. It's basically to provide a jobs foundation for right when the city starts out.

Plus they look nice with teeny towns. Makes them seem less like they're sitting senselessly in the middle of nowhere.

is this a loss?

I loved it.
C3 had a nifty army system to boot.
Have you met Bradus Pittus or Sylvestrus Staloneus, the actors?

No, but I do have a vewwy good fweind in Wome named Biggus Dickus.

To get the best results for a european city, I would recommend to simply look up how cities were built throughout the ages.
For example, small alleyways with one big street leading through a medieval tradertown, which also has several big free places for markets(ideal for old towns), next is huge avenues with citadels and (maybe roundabouts) for the renaissance. And then more highway, less everything else, centralization of all sectors into several areas, then decentralization of sectors and so on…

Best game for just creating a cozy city without all the management?

Zeus?

nig

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Dorf Fort. Once you learn that the le ebin difficulty curve is just learning how to automate food and booze production it becomes a house construction and decoration game.

Well… it becomes a written narrative about house construction and decoration, anyway.