What actual games this gen are excellent on a technical level? So often we say...

Nathan Powell
Nathan Powell

What actual games this gen are excellent on a technical level?

So often we say we like a game or its good based on our enjoyment. Or lack of double dipping microtransactions. The experience was entertaining enough, or offered something of unique value that made the time and money investment worthwhile.

But what about the game as a product removed from your own tastes? in a gen thats really had few solid hits with even the big critical acclaim games like Bloodborne, Pillars 2, Breath of the Wild and so on all had at least a few glaring flaws. Didn't stop folks enjoying them but they were not technically excellent.

Example:
Advanced difficulty makes enemies able to one shot you at level 1 but by level 4 you can auto attack and most likely survive without taking any damage in a battle on the same levels because level increase and weapon upgrades are significant but the rate of enemy strength increase means leveling only makes areas you already passed easier on revisit but keeps the challenge of current tier areas consistent.
You are never rolling in money when you are full on healing items, when you are low on healing items you are rolling in money. Prices like resting at the Inn to heal scales with your level so you can go broke and getting money means going up to the higher levels relevant to your character strength.
Removes floor skipping but allows shortcuts through the mazelike floors of the dungeon to go back and forth rather than one way. You cannot skip battles but your exploration is rewarded with easier retreads of floors if you put the time in
Every choice has some consequence that can not wipe you but leave in a bad situation setting you up for a wipe. you make one shit choice the game punishes you but doesnt wipe you, it just makes your second choice after the fact more weighty.

I could go on but its an example of a dungeon crawling rpg being so tight and having its balance as close to perfect as they could get it. This doesn't mean every consumer would enjoy it, some less mechanically sound games might even have more appeal to the audience for subjective reasons like taste based on characters, levels and soundtrack/art and so on. But this is a case of a current gen game that from a design standpoint is sincerely excellent and you can tell there was thought put into every decision and how it weighs on every other choice the player can make as they play.

Now can you think of another game this gen that applies to?

Justin Perez
Justin Perez

Advanced difficulty makes enemies able to one shot you at level 1 but by level 4 you can auto attack and most likely survive without taking any damage in a battle on the same levels because level increase and weapon upgrades are significant but the rate of enemy strength increase means leveling only makes areas you already passed easier on revisit but keeps the challenge of current tier areas consistent.
meaning that afk grinding exp and being consistently 4 levels above the current dungeon will let you breeze through it?
shit game

Gavin Green
Gavin Green

No because the exp required increases at a level that things you outlevel very quickly offer so little xp its not worth the time.

Hunter Roberts
Hunter Roberts

Only faggots and game journos overlevel their characters at the sight of any difficulty spike in a JRPG.

Also overleveling only works for the first two stratums in eov. 3rd stratum mobs curse and confuse your party, making your members OS themselves, and most of these mobs also have extremely high armor and low mdf, requiring you to actually cast spells instead of auto-battling if you don't want fights to take ages.

Besides, gear does everything and levels don't mean much in the short term, meaning that you will spend much less time if you just push forward instead of grinding. Farming only works if you are raising alternate guild members to have another team or new synergies.

Camden Rogers
Camden Rogers

Removes floor skipping
You don't really need floor skipping when you can just resume from any floor you've reached. Floor skipping was a response to the annoyance of only resuming from geomagnetic poles at the start of each stratum. Two way shortcuts aren't new either.

Jordan Price
Jordan Price

Advanced difficulty makes enemies able to one shot you at level 1 but by level 4 you can auto attack and most likely survive without taking any damage in a battle on the same levels

Sounds like you haven't been past the first or possibly second stratum then, because later enemies are dangerous enough to fuck you up if you underestimate them. Also advanced is the default difficulty; as in every EO since they introduced the other difficulty levels the hardest has always been the base level that's the closest to the older games. The easier ones are just disguised easy modes.

What actually matters is that you can no longer teleport to any other floor at essentially any time. Being able to start from any floor really means little because shortcuts made it easy to get back with minimal encounters.

Colton Peterson
Colton Peterson

Advanced difficulty makes enemies able to one shot you at level 1 but by level 4 you can auto attack and most likely survive without taking any damage in a battle on the same levels

Say that to prancing parrots and other assorted dog monsters of late 2nd stratum. Not to mention the spike in the 3rd one now that you have acces to advanced classes.

Brayden Green
Brayden Green

I've been listening to Etrian Odyssey music but haven't played any yet. Don't have a 3DS, so how are Etrian Odyssey 1-3 on the DS? I don't care about story, which would you recommend trying?

Cooper Murphy
Cooper Murphy

prancing parrots
Not a problem, just hit them with lightning and they won't counter. They also alternate between normal attacks and countering, so you always know when not to hit them. Those dogs are fucking tough though.
I just reached the 4th stratum and those fucking bats are a pain in the ass. They're like the sleeper flowers from the first three games only faster.

Always release order. People will tell you not to play 1, those people are dumb. Lack of polish may make it hard to go back to later, but it's fine as a first entry. 2 is basically 1 but better and 3 is often considered the best in the series. Play them all.

Michael Taylor
Michael Taylor

Well I don't know what the fuck is the problem, all three games have some serious frame skip issues for me, no other DS game thus far has had this, will have to try again tomorrow with fresh eyes.

Owen Howard
Owen Howard

I only remember EO2 having performance issues on DS, 1 and 3 ran fine for me.

Adam Parker
Adam Parker

EO3 is 60fps.

Isaac Martin
Isaac Martin

Yeah, the only issues I remember were with those animated damage floors on EO2. If there were a lot of them on screen it could cause some slowdown but otherwise it was all fine.

Cooper Gonzalez
Cooper Gonzalez

This game is incredibly tight from a design standpoint by virtue of removing practically everything it doesn't need. Though a minimalistic game doing something niche will beget only a niche audience, which makes its incredibly positive reception all the more curious. We have barely seen a mix of first-person shooters and arcade game design philosophy, even though that's a massive unexplored area for innovation, and this game could very well be the first step. People are so used to good first-person shooters with large sprawling levels with tons to explore that they can't imagine how a FPS that does away with it entirely would work out. For example:

you die in one hit, and you're not dodging any projectiles, you're actually trying to prevent enemies from swarming you
so death isn't immediate, but your death largely results from letting enemy spawns getting out of hand with every slow action and little mistake you make
hence why this kind of gameplay would only work in a setting where enemies will constantly spawn with no break or end which normal levels would have, otherwise it'd be like if in Tetris your field gets cleared for every 100 lines you clear, which would take away from the challenge and long-term strategy
with cannon fodder trying to swarm you and more special types of enemies having weakspots you need to shoot before they die, it's important that you can see the whole arena
anything but flat level geometry would get in the way, as there's no reason in this game to break line of sight since you're never getting directly shot at, nor is there anything to explore
on top of that it gets in the way because it could result in shitty situation because you get gored by some skulls coming right around the corner which you couldn't see coming, it'd be like facing a dozen Kleers in a narrow-ass maze
because there's always a ton of enemies, you'll always be shooting, but this begs the question of why you would ever release the fire button in this case, as there's no ammunition or anything of the like
that's why the red crystal system exists, every time you destroy a weak spot a red crystal is dropped, which you can suck up by letting go of the fire button
if the amount of collected crystals reaches certain thresholds, your weapon power, spread, and RoF will increase
there's a maximum weapon level where you can't upgrade your weapon anymore which would make collecting red crystals useless after a point, however red crystals are also used as ammunition for Homing Daggers, which automatically track down enemies and are useful when you're in a tight spot
so you're presented with the risk of not shooting at the constant onslaught of enemies in order to collect crystals, which when done carelessly might cause them to overwhelm you
you might think to first kill the arena clean and then collect the crystals safely, but crystals despawn after a certain amount of time, meaning you need to time crystal collection every now and then for maximum benefits
your weapon has both a streaming projectile shot and a quick shotgun blast shot, of which the latter tends to do more DPS, but using the shotgun blast pushes crystals away from you with a stronger force than the streaming shot, and overusing the shotgun blast might push them off the arena at which point they're unrecoverable
enemies also play into this, there are spider enemies which spawn at the edges of the arena who attract all the crystals towards them in order to corrupt them and use them to spawn more spiderlings, who override your ability to collect them and thus are very high-priority targets
enemy spawners have weakspots on different sides of their body which rotate, encouraging you to move around effectively in order to kill them as quickly as possible
since crowd control is so important in this game, being able to know what's going on around you is essential, but in a first-person shooter your FoV is limited

Julian Green
Julian Green

hence why there's such a strong focus on positional audio design with no music playing in the background to distract your hearing, all enemy types make unique sounds which still manage to remain distinct in a busy audio mix
if you look at a top-down replay of Devil Daggers you might ask why this isn't just a top-down shooter, but DD actually takes advantage of being a first-person shooter by testing your ability to aim
your weapon isn't hitscan, but projectile based, enemies move in erratic directions and their paths need to be predicted so you can kill them ASAP, on top of that the z-axis is actually used with skulls randomly bouncing upwards and weak spots of other enemies being situated higher up
if you want to remain in charge, you need to know how to aim fast, how to move properly, to be accurate WHILE moving fast, to be aware of the dangers around you, to collect crystals, to get rid of the tougher enemy types ASAP, and to be fast and efficient
then there's several little things, like enemy spawners slowly moving towards the center of the arena as time passes in order to prevent the outer ring of the arena getting crowded, as that's where spawners always spawn, so spawners can be spread out across the arena in order to make your life harder when you don't kill them quickly enough
there is no level design here in the strictest sense of the world, but the arena does get smaller over time, limiting your movement and concentrating an increasing amount of enemies in a smaller space
enemies have very distinctive silhouettes and color palettes, while enemies who are very close to you get lit up so you know which one to prioritize

It's rare to see one game get so much right.

Justin Cox
Justin Cox

Rez: Infinite

Cameron Lewis
Cameron Lewis

Well I figured it out, it wasn't the frame skip or emu settings at all, for some reason if the LC layout was either 'Main screen first' or "Subscreen first" the screens would interchange rapidly and cause the flicker. If I just put top/bottom first option, it works normally. Weird, but thanks, now I can start.

Charles Peterson
Charles Peterson

EO3 was my first and it immediately became one of my favorite games of all time.

I know that other user said differently, but tbh I think EO2 and EO1 are skippable, having gone back and played them after EO3. EO4 is also excellent after EO3.

Ryan Myers
Ryan Myers

skipping the best music in the series

Ryder Martin
Ryder Martin

Everyone always praises EO3's music but I think EO2 had the best. It had the cutest grills too.

Julian Hill
Julian Hill

Well I began with EO3 as it was the first was I got to work, and so far have been tasked with making the map for the first floor of the labyrinth. I went with save states to start with at least, because some Great Lynx came and one shotted my entire party. I guess this game is about grinding?

Would you suggest going with a full six party members or less?

Kevin Richardson
Kevin Richardson

went with save states to start with
Dear lord.
Just wait until you meet these fuckers.

Jeremiah Morgan
Jeremiah Morgan

You're a fucking casual. Using save states removes the entire risk/reward question that's part of the fun of the game, so don't, and learn to judge when you're at risk of getting wiped if you push on, it's never going to come with no warning at all - if you ran around in the rear part of floor 1 with a half dead party that's your own fault, there's always going to be a chance of a particularily dangerous encounter. Just take things at a cautious pace, run when things could potentially get ugly, and always bring threads as soon as you get to buy them.

Noah James
Noah James

technical excellence
posts waifubait shovelware.
Ok then.

Wyatt Myers
Wyatt Myers

save states
not playing on a comfy actual DS

I'm glad I don't come to Holla Forums often anymore with users like this posting here

Austin Johnson
Austin Johnson

OP didn't post Persona 5.

Tyler Allen
Tyler Allen

Persona 5 is an unbalanced joke.

Nicholas Jenkins
Nicholas Jenkins

grinding
If you have to grind for an Etrian Odyssey game and you're not doing some gimmick team run You're a casual

Also EO3 best soundtrack.

Colton Cooper
Colton Cooper

Don't worry now, I stopped using save states now, in the second level of the forest now with those floating lizard spheres. Can't really say there's no need to level up somewhat when going down, since shit almost oneshots you again. Lvl 7 now and it's definitely not an easy game. My party is Gladiator, Zodiac, Monk, Arbalist and Princess if that seems okay. One for hits, one for magic, one for healing, one for ranged and one for buffs, seems pretty decent to me, but getting enough money for equipment doesn't seem to be easy, and to get money it's either grinding for monster loot or fishing, so again I don't understand what would be the issue of "not grinding". Is there some cash mechanic I'm unaware?

Thomas Kelly
Thomas Kelly

Your party is fine, slightly on the frail side but should be stable enough. Sea exploration, especially charting paths to landmarks is a great way of making money if you need some, conditional monster drops or resource gathering at spots is also useful (don't pick up gathering skills on your main party, just get a few farmers for that). You usually can pick up on some hints for drops, tricks or monster weaknesses at the bar when talking to the patrons, or do quests when you feel somewhat weak since those grant XP but be careful not to pick up a quest that's way too hard for your current level. Also, there's a trick to surviving Floor 2 without grinding. You're supposed to come at night. That's when the Largebills don't spawn.

Austin Sanchez
Austin Sanchez

Don't worry, the first stratum is always the hardest in EO. Don't feel that you have to buy every new piece of gear you unlock, it gets expensive. You'll do fine with just upgrading armor every now and then, but make sure your attackers always have the best weapons available.

Bentley Cox
Bentley Cox

Yeah I noticed that when doing the centipede quest and the guy at the bar told me after the fact as well.

I've been picking up some yellow colored weapons that have no attack but five bars of a status like sleep, paralysis. These will probably come in handy at some point so selling a no-no?

Benjamin Moore
Benjamin Moore

They're occasionally useful for getting rare drops if nobody in your party can inflict those ailments, yeah.

Xavier Carter
Xavier Carter

Can be situationally useful on support characters that wouldn't get good damage on normal attacks anyway.

Connor Bennett
Connor Bennett

Bump because Etrian Odyssey deserves it

Christopher Flores
Christopher Flores

EO5 does a lot of stuff right at the outset, all the classes are pretty new compared to the previous sets, and some are really cool mechanically, like Necros.

Matthew Phillips
Matthew Phillips

I've been enjoying it so far. Are necromancers actually any good? I haven't used one yet but looking at their skills makes it look like they aren't good at any one thing but are more jacks of all trades, which makes them useless in a party based RPG.

Jackson Edwards
Jackson Edwards

They get really good after the second stratum which lets you have access to master titles.

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