Is Resident Evil 4 an example of how even great games can kill genres?

Is Resident Evil 4 an example of how even great games can kill genres?

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It does not hold up well

Survival horror was basically dead already, to be honest. You should probably blame it more on the subpar response to RE Zero and Silent Hill 4.

Babbies go to bed.

RE4 is the game that proved to the masses that Survival Horror is just Action Horror with shitty gameplay, so they wanted more of the latter.

SH 4 was kinda lame. The ghosts are what I hated the most. 1-3 were the golden years.

Silent Hill 4 was a genuinely bad game. The only good thing about it was the hot females.

thats actually pretty accurate

There are numerous examples of this happening. Half Life 1 for instance; made all the shooter devs think setpieces and "cinematic experience" mattered the most and eventually resulted in the Cawwadoody archetype. Another good example is Cave Story. Tons of indie faggots latched on to the retro aesthetic and good narrative instead of the even better gameplay, resulting in the indieshit platformer archetype.

I don't know, horror is barely a genre anyways. Most people don't like to be horrified, so most games simply limit themselves to be just spooky, rather than show you something that actually makes your mind struggle to comprehend it.

if you be sayin RE 1-3 and SH 1-4 had shitty game play then meet me on the playground after class niggy

REmake is one of my favourite games ever, but I don't know if I'd even say it has good gameplay. Survival horror is one of those awkward genres where things other than gameplay really make the experience more than the actual gameplay. The best parts of those games aren't when you're interacting with the combat mechanics, that's for sure. And the puzzles aren't really anything remarkable.

gameplay is more than just solving puzzles and shooting things

Right. Conserving resources. But how much of that is gameplay, and how much of it is a game you play in your head? Tension is heightened, because you feel there's a threat of running out of ammo, but how often does that actually happen? I've never run out of ammo in a RE game.

the gameplay isnt really bad. but the thing that makes it not "action" limitations on how you were allowd to interact with the game like fixed camera angles and slow controls. survival horror used to be almost exclusively limited to pc point and click games and RE1 was a kind of adaptation of that.


gameplay is how you interact with the game. in RE the 4 main things you do is solve puzzles, shoot things, move around, and pick up/manage items.

Yes and no. While it did pretty much kill off survival horror it also give us a new genre action horror which has created some good games. Like Dead Space 1&2, Alan Wake, the good spin off Resident Evil Revelation 1&2 and possibly Evil Within 1&2, this one is pretty subjective


Git gud. I play the game every couple years and it still plays fine to me.

What genre did it kill?

item management is most definantly gameplay, if anyhting that was seen as a calculation or decision the player made in their head then does that mean puzzle games are light on gameplay.

and having lots of ammo means you are mastering all other gameplay elements to keep hold of that resource.
-moving around enemies avoiding combat
-navigating the mansion effectivly
-knowing where puzzle items go
-travelling light


navigation is also an important part

The point is the feeling of being short on ammo is largely imaginary. There's always just enough. Puzzles aren't imaginary. You still have to solve them.

But they did have shitty gameplay. They aren't bad games, but they definitely have bad gameplay.

This user sums it up nicely >>13573089

if you think the gameplay which is the main thing you are doing for the majority of the RE games what else makes them a good game?

Survival Horror, are you underage?

Yes but Resident Evil was also never a true horror game, there was nothing remotely scary about it, even when i was a kid growing up. Sure it had its moments but i always felt silent hill was a a lot scarier and disturbing in terms of themes and monster design. Horror needs to stop relying so much on the immediate scare and lean more toward the unnerving and suspense. The Penumbra games and to some extent Amnesia the dark descent are good examples that come to mind.

theres not just enough ammo each zombie takes up to 5 bullets to kill and as i said there are more enemies than there are bullets to pick up.

The thing is in RE before RE4 Item management was just a long form fetch quest of storing items and pulling them out when you need them. It would be infinitely better if it had inventory tetris like RE4.
Ammo is never a problem in any of the RE games even if you hose down every single enemy.


Survival Horror have always been shitty shooters with an excuse for unresponsive controls. RE4 was just a good shooter.


In which RE game? I finished every single one before RE4 and none of them have ammo shortages. By the end I had around 200 handgun ammo and at least 50 shotgun shells and I killed every single thing I saw.

Nah, you're a fucking retard. If they were shooters they'd actually let you aim.

Mostly the atmosphere and story, and this goes for SH as well. Then 4 came along, and the story took a back seat to the gameplay, and for better or for worse, everyone loved it.

So MGS 1 isn't a shooter because it doesn't let you aim?

Actually it's an example of how to ruin some good ideas with quick time events.

I hope you're baiting.

I'd call MGS 'Action Stealth'.

I've never played the original RE but have played the rest of them and you will always have enough ammo. However in RE 2 for example you will run dry of handgun ammo right about when reach the elevator to the lab, but this is easily mitigated by using using another weapon instead until you have some buffer room with pistol ammo. Be it using the shotty/xbow or flamethrow/tasergun or the smg.

it's a shitty "stealth" game with tacked on boss fights at best

Yeah those were fucking horrid in RE4. They only got worse as the series went on.


"Tactical Espionage Stealth"


Thats my point. Survival "horror" games are just shitty action games with tacked on boss fights.
Y

Resident Evil 4 Total non-random game ammo:
Hangun: I never did count these but it's fucking huge
Shotgun: 421 Shells (not counting free shells in regular Shotgun)
TMP: 1475 Ammo
Rifle: 154 Ammo
Magnum: 51 Ammo (not counting free bullets in Broken Butterfly)

The highest amount of kills you can get in a playthrough is somewhere around 1050 or so, maybe 1100. That's all the completely non-random ammo. RE4 also chucks enough grenades at you to fill your attache case by the end of the game and massive amounts of random ammo.

What do you mean by non-random game ammo?
RE4 gives you ammo based on which weapons you are using. Also I don't think the user you quoted was talking about RE4, it doesn't even pretend to have ammo management.

You've gone full retard and I'm done. If you want to be that ignorant be my guest, but you'll just sound like one of those "RPGS ARE EVERYTHING" fags.

He means ammo that isn't dropped by enemies, or has that color coded halo light around them since that's random.

Ammo in containers that is preset. Only randomized ammo is influenced by the weapons you own and how low some of them are on ammo.


Unfortunately the color coding isn't consistent in terms of identifying non-random ammo.

But it does

You mean something it classifies
itself as?
The fuck do you think shooter implies? Stealth Simulation?
Its literally in the genre description you retard. Also how is a game that is predominantly about shooting shit(you cannot progress without kill shit) not an action game?
You do realize genre labels aren't one or the other right? A game can be an action game while also being a stealth one.

'Tactical Stealth' is closer to the first three Splinter Cell games. 'Action Stealth' is MGS/2/3. 'Stealth' would be Thief 1/2.

...

>

If the action genre is so vague and vast then it has no meaning. You're retarded as fuck, son, consider learning more about game genres before you further embarrass yourself.

You clearly have not played the game in awhile if you don't remember having to escort that vapid whore.

Its neither vague or vast. You are either willingly being ignorant or really fucking stupid.
I'd bet on the latter.

How is

>

i meant classic RE does not have enough bullets to kill every enemies as everything in that game is planned to the T.

Try playing REmake on hard.

Sorry double nigger, but Genres are a set thing, each game only has one genre. It's not some progressive fag shit where games can be whatever they want: Their designers had a genre in mind when they were making it and it fits in to one genre. If a game blends genres it actively has to blend them. Your core concept: that every game with any sort of action fits into the action genre is retarded and shows total ignorance as to what video game genres even are.

You're basically calling a Bicycle with training wheels a form of car becuause it has four wheels and then when I tell you that it's not a car you're saying "Well it's a Bicycle and a Car, what it is isn't specific and it clearly has four wheels just like a car."

It does. It has more than enough.
Its just that killing shit takes time and may cause you to take damage which deducts your ending grade.

I assume you're talking about Mountain Climbing. Thats normal, not hard.

The whore always stayed close behind you even while shooting unless ordered to stay, and in most sections you could just shove her in a garbage dumpster and clear the area of goys. So with an exception of a few areas it's rather manageable. However those specific areas are a genuine pain in the ass, looking at you stair crank room.

I don't know about the first RE, but that was never true about the other REs. At best you may run dry of pistol ammo at one time, but that just means you just use your shotgun until you find more pistol ammo.

I'm talking about hard, the difficulty you unlock after beating the game.

How so?
My only real gripe is the lack of strafing makes getting at enemies you can hear from around corners a pain in the ass.
Otherwise I still like playing through it.

Eh no such thing existed in the original game so I didn't really bother. Still if ammo is only a problem in a difficulty added in the HD remake which is unlocked AFTER you've beaten the game once already, I'd call it an outlier rather than standard.

lolbaited

so i went full autist for this one.

in REmake on chris hard there are-
165 handgun bullets
60 shotgun shells
2 pick ups of magnum rounds
no grenade rounds of any kind.

i even went one better and counted the number of main enemies (discounting smaller things like the snakes and small spiders. i won't count bosses either)

67 zombies
15 dogs
3 sharks
24 hunters
4 giant spiders
8 chimera


and you're saying that this is more than enough to kill every enemy including the bosses.
also lets forget that if you kill a zombie it will turn into a crimson head unless you burn it meaning so that doubles the ammount of standard enemies.
plus crimson heads are harder to kill

o no he said he didn't like a video game im mad as shit nao
It looked like a legitimate conversation starter to me tbh

Where did you get the data on ammo and enemies? Did you actually go full autist and counted them as you played?

That's hard mode, and chris as well, so that's harder hard mode. We're talking about normal since that's the only one available from the start.

It's not as hard as you think, all you gotta do is have one of the infinite weapons like the handgun or the rpg and just pick up shit and count the corpses. Or use a cheat editor to get infinite ammo.

i used the evil resource that shows the location of every ammo pick up and the location of all enemies. check my work

evilresource.com/resident-evil/enemies
evilresource.com/resident-evil-remake/weaponry#remakehandgunmagazine

The handgun ammo count comes up to 210 and magnum comes up to 24 in Chris's campaign. Did you use the hardmode numbers for some reason?

Evil Resource is pretty good but not everything is accurate. For example they say that there's shotgun shells in the attic on Jill Normal but they're actually only there on easy.

Anyway, it still gives us a good idea about if there's enough ammo to kill everything.

I've never played a RE game, what's a good one to start with? I only have PC.

REmake

He literally said Chris Hard

Just play 4, it's the only decent one.

i used hardmode because there is less ammo

start from one use a PS1 emulator and see how the series evolved

Release order.
Skip RE0
You can replace RE1 with REmake if you want.

But hardmode isn't even unlocked until you beat the game, not to mention it wasn't even in the original game. In normal difficulty you get so much Shotgun ammo as Chris that you don't even need to use the magnum for anything but the Tyrant.
Also REmake actually changed the amount of ammo you get even in normal mode from the original PS1 game.

2>3>1>CV>4
The trilogy via Beetle PSX or Mednafen, CV on Demul, and the 'HD' PC version of 4. If your CPU is too shit to run Demul, you can safely skip CV. The idea behind this order is that RE2 is the most accessible starting point in the trilogy, and it won't conflict with the story. You then do 3, which takes place before, and after 2, and polish it off with 1 as a sort of flashback to give you more background on how it all got started.

Test

One of the 'later' examples so yes, but the killing method is different from what it was in the past. It kills by mutating the genre.

Myst however, killed the genre because Myst, Riven, and Myst 3: Exile are masterpieces, and no one, not even the creators themselves can top that and everything that came after that is a disappointment one after another. And surreal sublime adventure point and click died a graceful death. A true good example of how great games can kill genre.

Then fucking Telltale hijacked the adventure scene. Sam and Max were okay, but the rest after that was steaming pile of shit one after another because 'moral choices', 'edgy Jewlywood storyline', and not even the hardest fanboy can defend that.

I've always had an extremely difficult time getting into Myst III.

You missed a magazine in hard mode so it's 180 pick up bullets, and 195 total including when you pick up the handgun. Also you neglected to mention the defense items as well there's 9 knives and 8 flash nades the latter is a one hit kill. At least one flash nade should be used for the graveyard crimson head. If you let richard die from the poison you don't have to fight the plant boss, but don't get his 10 mag shotgun, which would bring your total shotgun shell count from 66 to 76 if you did save him. So the only bosses that you do use ammo are the snake the second time, the spider, and tyrant battles.

I love it, but fuck me if it didn't spawn some terminal cancer.

No, that would be the massively successful infiltration of radical egalitarianism into the education system.

I'm sorry what?

hmmm

Resident Evil felt like B horror to me. It might've been the voice acting, though.

I have never run out of ammo in Resident Evil and the enemies never hit you. The games are too easy and there's many rooms I've never seen because there's no reason to ever enter them. Most bosses can be killed quickly if you use your brain. I've beaten all the series in like 1-2 hours. The game has so many healing items when you don't actually need any of them. I wouldn't say the gameplay is good either, especially compared to the likes of Dark Souls,Half Life 2 or Bayonetta.

Why do they even give you any firearms when I can just kill everything with the knife?

have you played arrange mode in RE1?

Bullshit. You've never played a Resident Evil game.

And how would you know that? You didn't use a walkthrough did you?

Yep

Start with RE1-3
If you enjoy them and want more info on Umbrella, play Survivor (PS1).
If not, move onto Code Veronica. If you enjoyed Survivor or want more info on the story, play Survivor 2: Code Veronica, a canon dream sequence that has canonical files not in CV. CV also has two versions, the Dreamcast original, which lacks some cutscenes that make Wesker look less like Neo. The CVX rerelease on everything else adds these cutscenes.
After that, there are quite a few optional games. If you like the Raccoon City story, play the two Outbreak game, and if you want to see what happens when you mix the t-Virus and the G-Virus, check out Dead Aim. All of these are PS2 exclusive.
There's also a non-canon side story for the GBC called Resident Evil Gaiden, which was meant to explain why Leon couldn't help Claire in CV, and there is a movie called Biohazard 4D Executer. It's 20 minutes long and takes place during the Raccoon City Incident.
Now, I'll just make a general list for the rest of the series, as there aren't too many optional spin-offs
There's also the non-canon book series, if you want to see Leon and Claire fuck, and the non-canon live action movies which are trashy but the last 3 were funny

RE4 was designed by people that aren't in Capcom anymore. RE4 people knew what made the game work and they perfected it. The people that made the RE games after 4 had no idea what the fuck made 4 so good and they started guessing with 5. RE6 I didn't even finish and RE7 was a blatant cash-in on Silent Hills failure. It wasn't so much that RE4 ruined a series by setting the bar too high, it was the inexperienced people at the helm who tried to out-do RE4. nu-Capcom has been on a creative downward spiral ever since Clover's people were laid off.


Way to miss the point of playing games, you turbo-autist.

I'm starting to realize that this meme holds next to no weight; if they had the ability to make a great game, they would've continued to do so.

So… any good obscure horror games you niggers can suggest?

Yup

...

yeah I got 2
obscure, obscure: aftermath

huhuhuhu
but seriously I can dump a handful of dumb clunky 90s-00s horror games like countdown vampires and overblood if that's what you're looking for

Shame on you.

I've beaten it like ten times and still love it. Shit taste babby detected.

I think that the problem with the RE series which was stupid hokey not at all scarey horseshit to begin with after 4 is that they kept not even vaguely doing four again. Adding the stupid-ass co-op gimmick to 5, making 6 just a generic but sorta fun third person shooter, making 7 a fucking FPS, like. I think the franchise would be in a hell of a lot better condition if they'd just have stuck to the formula with 4. They kept not really doing it again when it was painfully obvious that it was the only thing the masses actually wanted.

Give me some laser sights, the inability to move and shoot, le happy merchant, the inventory management system, the invincible contextual actions you could abuse the shit out of, and stupid dipshit one liners and make another "bring a gun to a knifefight" simulator like you did with four. All the extra shit was unnecessary.

People like you are why Resident Evil is a dying series. Good job.

1, 2, and 3 all play almost exactly the same, nigger.

They had something successful and then changed the only parts anyone liked or gave a shit about in it. Obviously you can add new things. Making it a co-op mandatory game or making ita n FPS is not adding new things, it is completely revamping the wildly successful formula to just be something different.


How does that make any sense?

It was a (1) and done bait. This shit is in every thread. Dude calls a game shit with nothing to back it up.

And they ruined their solid formula by switching to the bullshit that is 4. You just want 4 so you're part of the casual cancer.
kys faggola

what, did you honestly think that RE was scary or something?

they ruined their solid formula by switching to 4 because their solid formula was selling like shit because capcom gave the gamecube a lifeline and it ended up in disaster

It's almost like they're in the fucking game series. I think I'm gunna start going around in Deus Ex and Thief threads going "You just didn't like invisible war/Thief 4 because they changed it too much". Or fuck. Any dead game that gets dug up juts for its name.

I've only played REmake, but how the fuck could you not find REmake scary at all?

a little tense at times with how slow you move, but scary? not really

the scariest part about classic RE was the fact that 0 was handled the way it was, and that survivor existed

The disconnect with games is too strong for me to find any of them scary. I to this day don't get what people find scary about Silent Hill, Dead Space, etc. Resident Evil at least has that sense of dread when you have to explore a new area and have no clue if you can make it through since supplies are so limited.

maybe on the first time around if you just shoot everything you see but I regularly have too many handgun rounds to use by the last quarter of the game

Thats how it was with silent hill. I treated it like resident evil and had something like +100 handgun bullets, 50 shotgun bullets, etc. Resident evil has never been like that for me, even if I Just run past enemies. Although the last one I played was the directors cut which really cut back on everything.

I'm not sure DC cut back on much aside from arrange mode, where it gave you like 50% less ammo and put you up against 150% more enemies
that zombie that opens the door in the kitchen too like 4 shotgun shells to the face, that was fucking tense

5 killed it.
All it had to do was not be shit.
That isn't 4's fault.

...

Newfags think RE 1-3 came out together and were received great the same. By the time 3 came out, the genre was dead and RE considered an archaic, stale relic.

It took 10 years for another generation to discover their dad games and pretend they were more leet than current ones.

No such thing

People were excited for RE3, CV, REmake and 0. REmake was on a system where it logically shouldn't have sold much and sold over a million copies
Also, most of those games (RE3 and REmake specifically) wouldn't have been well received if people thought they were archaic or stale.

The issue is that Capcom got this stupid idea RE was a bigger thing than it was. It was always a niche franchise for a niche audience, yet Capcom, post RE4, consistently tried to make them into third person shooters, entirely missing the point of the earlier games, or why RE4 was so well received.

RE4 is basically a direct continuation of the tone and feel of RE3. The idea isn't to scare the player, but to keep him under constant tension. RE3 did this with the Nemesis and his ability to chase you down, RE4 did it with the claustrophobic camera, map and encounter design and enemy AI and abilities. RE5 and 6 are just third person shooters with shitty interfaces.

REmake has amazing """gameplay""". It is the apex in terms of the survival horror genre. It proves that the derided tank controls can be done amazingly well.


I'd say no game in the series has surpassed 4 but Jesus man do you intentionally hate fun? I found a lot to enjoy in every mainline RE game. I can't believe you didn't like Jake Weskers Fists of Fury™.

Sad to say but RE4 does kill the series, it just wasn't fucking scary.

I would say Dead Space was a better RE4 than RE4.

The stupid ass loot system should stay gone though, when you gain money and ammo by killing enemies, it encourages you to play the game as a shooter, not a survival horror.

Considering RE3 itself is not even a very good game, I would digress.

RE1, RE2, Remake are best, but I also like Code Veronica.

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Why do you like RE3 so much?

Remember that RE5 was supposed to be RE4 in Africa but they made it a coop shooter with a granted cute black sidekick because of muh racism.

But there's sections in DS where you specifically have to kill enemies to advance. It's a somewhat scarier RE4 with a bunch of gimmicks, it's certainly not a survival horror game.

The non-linearity in how you collect items, the options you get every now and then, the variety of Nemesis and how he shows up at random, and the amount of stuff you can do on hard mode.
The story is also the peak of classic RE, as are the files and RE3 is the gameplay peak of the classics

RE3 was very challenging compared to the others, including the ranking system where you could even use too many herbs, and nemesis being a nuisance. The puzzles had more nuance since it was practical solutions instead of "find the sword key." The branching choices were neat. The controls were tight with environment hazards and Jill's dodge was very rewarding but not game breaking. The qeapon variety was fun" and mercenaries offering in game unlockables was super cool. Good bosses, good fights, hunters return, campy and fun characters. It had everything I wanted from the game.

I liked RE3 but that dodge is nothing short of gamebreaking. It pretty much makes the pistol you get from killing Nemesis first time around the best weapon and pistols in general best for dealing with nemesis.

But even a perfectly executed dodge was pointless if your positioning was off. Tuck and roll to pistol fire was tons of fun

I guess that is true. Sometimes she would dodge in the way of attacks.

So it has nothing to do with it being scary.

RE3 was the step where it becomes action horror instead of survival horror.

RE5 was serviceable, shooting niggers was fun but them shooting back was less fun. It went from good survival horror to a bad TPS game. It also didn't help that the game was forced to be made into a co-op game, which was a huge hit to the quality. Punching a boulder was the highlight of the game.
RE6 at the start with Leon was excellent, but I do not remember anything after the church. There is just a long, blank space up until the Nemesis 2.0 fight. I played a little of Sherry's campaign but I just gave up because the game up to that point was so fucking boring.
RE7 looked spooky at the start but it quickly evolved into a fucking FPS. That cannot be forgiven.

I did find enjoyment in the games at times, but it was always underlined with frustration at all of the games shortcomings. This all stems from Capcom trying so fucking hard to one-up RE4 without the creative force that they stupidly laid off or drove away to Platinum. Platinum Games are amongst the last people who uphold what made games great in the first place.

You made your bed you fucks, now sleep amongst your endless Street Fighter rehashes.

Nemesis is scary and there are some somber moments like finding the file about the soldier who was protecting a family and finding him dead with a young girl.

Licker is scary.
Nemesis is a giant nigger with a bazooka, he looks badass/goofy, not scary.

RE2/REmake are the scariest, depending on your preference (gothic horror or urban horror).

None of the shit in RE games is scary. All the threat comes from their ability to damage you.
Nemesis is a very obvious evolution from Mr X in terms of bioweapons.

And Mr. X is goofy too.

Licker is scary because they look fucking gross and they crawl around.

I would say the scariest monster is Will Birkin though.

It looks like a shitty B movie monster

The only reason retards think RE 4 killed anyhting is because the old RE had 10/10 atmosphere because of its fucking backgrounds, not even current year games can compete with those.

The games itself were trash, i finished that shit when i was 7 years old and i didnt even know how to walk "diagonally" when i started playing(2d gaming did that to you).

Get over yourselves nostalgia faggots

And that's still scarier than fucking Nemesis, who is a big guy with a bazooka.

did you steal this whole post from reddit? dark souls and bayonetta are great fun but comparing them to resident evil is fucking retarded and it comes off as an attempt to get SICK GAMUR CRED. That and only idiots like half life 2

the game literally revived the zombie genre and had the most successful video game movie franchise, even if the later title audiences were at least 50% chinese

how?

Your mom's vajinna is scarier than RE2.

The village was way creepier than anything in dead space. Dead space was literally "LOL RANDUM LOUD NOISE" every 2 minutes. I could predict the jumpscares within 5-7 seconds of them actually happening. Even the shittier later part of RE4 had scarier stuff like the regenerators or the sewer with semi-invisible enemies. I will never understand how that pile of garbage gets a pass here.