Look around you leftypol, the proletariat shows no desire to liberate themselves, they love the spectacle...

Most… of an incredibly tiny group, is still tiny.

im really starting to see how Marxist 'inevitability' is a fanatic religion

you ancucks are sad!

We'll all serve some predestined purpose for some greater good

Is Chris Metzen Marx reincarnate?

You don't have a dialectic when most working-class revolutions are not leftist.

The Soviet Union was rapidly industrializing in an era where the impact of human production on the climate wasn't a concern. To think that future socialist projects would have act in the same manner is a little narrow-minded.

No, it's not. Because every "Socialist" economy is for-profit state capitalism. Capitalists will never cease growth at the expense of the natural world, ecology has no place in Marx's 19th century worldview.

Still just waiting guys always w8in

ok

The mark of an idiot who has no argument, switching to minor semantic arguments. I"m referring to soviet, DPRK style right "communism".

Because that's what I was responding to.

I was mostly memeing, that's why a vanguard is a necessity.

It's a simple, undeniable fact. Leftism is going nowhere, there is no 'dialectical argument' that marxism of any form has any place in the future because the majority of working class movement are not derived from marxism.

You're going to die irrelevant and depressed like marx if you keep thinking people will really be leftist one day, learn to work with what you've got instead of living in spooksville.

Wew lad. Marx was wrong, but capitalism will destroy the bourgeois just as much as it will destroy the proletariat. The only way forward for both is through social ecology, and this means giving up power or having it taken from you through dual power.

Reminded of the end of pic related.

Is that Ayn Rand on the left?

The system works in mysterious ways, giving people false happiness and surrogate accomplishment, whilst oppressing them further and further. The Bourgeoisie are not a boogeyman like Jews, Reptilians, etc, they're merely the ones who the system is powered by. The system relies on production and invention, it would not have been as powerful as it is today without Bourgeois businessmen and investors hiring mathematicians and scientists to invent things like Computers, Televisions, Cellphones, etc: communication, entertainment, and so-called education are the three things that started the Computer Era within our Industrialtechnological culture.

The birth of the system was the Industrial revolution though, when factories could massproduce any sort of object. The IR and the CE go hand in hand. As operating factories became costly due to Labour Movements foolishly trying to reform the Industrialtechnological system, the Bourgeoisie moved the factories and machines to places like China, Mexico, etc. They needed to communicate with their middle tier and lower tier managers as fast as possible, and thus came the computer.

The Bourgeoisie aren't immune to the effects of the system. Many tire of their operations, taking up surrogate activities like philanthropy, the sciences, politics, etc. They too desire freedom from the system, though they may not agree consciously. They want to struggle, to have goals, to have true achievements, but they don't want to further the destruction of the system that empowers them.

The irony of booj struggle is that anything they could actually do to get rid of capitalism would also be getting rid of their power, so unless they really understand the system and care more about some ideal than self-interest, they could never be of assistance.

How are these posters wrong, essentially?

Capitalism is an ingenious engine borne of unintended human genius. It consumes all, and as far as I'm seeing it will eventually grind humanity into a fine paste as it does at this moment.

• The circle of poverty will keep most workers invested in their own survival within a cage that they cannot and will not see for what it is which is a creation of their minds. People need only put down their work and stop producing enabling the whole of human society to see that it is indeed labor that keeps the world going round. However, we fear the alternatives too much to let this happen. Starvation, war, fighting over food and water. These are the things we look forward to if Georges Sorel's "general strike" come to fruition. A very tenuous society, delicate in its existence will grind to a painful halt if labor takes the burden off of its back. Even if they do somehow gain the collective spirit to do so, police (read: not the Army) will beat them into submission as the rest of society watches these "lazy, skill-less" workers reap the rewards of their "laziness".

• The spectacle has become all encompassing. Our lives within the spectacle have replaced who we are, thereby submitting control of our own self image to the marketing and PR beast that is capitalism. Consumption is a sign of healthiness, the *display* and broadcasting of what we think happiness is in real time replaces our true happiness. Our political lives, our very relations with other people through the functioning of our societal government has become a part of this spectacle. Debates, public addresses, campaigns are mere extensions of the bombastic displays we think politics to be thanks to marketing and an over-saturated culture driven by capitalism.

• Education is controlled by the very capitalists who control the states. Even now they shake us down for the muh privilege of attending higher education, the muh privilege of buying their slanted books who exist only to reinforce the idea that laboring for capital is our end goal of being as humans.

People who see Marx's theory as I once did and only pray that automation and crises will bring an end to capitalism are just as bad as those religious fanatics waiting for Jesus' return. Technology will not end this, and neither will automation. Automation coming about as it is now will only serve to ensure capitalists can finally cut out labor once and for all. Those replicators we all joke about as seen on Star Trek will be in the homes of the few hundreds of thousands left on Earth after the teeming masses of the poor starve to death fighting each other for scraps of capital's favor.

I don't know how we don't lose right now, and I speak not as a communist but just as a human being. People might say "but Cav user, you know Marx said that capitalism will eventually destroy the bourgoiesie". Marx was a smart dude, and I've read him a lot since I've come into socialism so don't think I'm forgetting some quote from the Grundrisse or his E&P Manuscripts. It was Marx that won me over. Capital was the most logical thing I've ever read in my life. But I'm tired of the holes, the gaps between what are essentially very enlightened observations. Capitalism won't just magically destroy the class that wields capital, and capitalism won't just implode because robots make things.

Sure, lots of people are tired of the bullshit going on. And they'll complain about it all day as they sit around the dinner table watching the game after their ten hour shift. But at the same time, how are we any better? How many times will people here discuss Trump knowing full well he's just a pawn of a greater machine running in the background? I mean fuck man, think about how we'll even survive each other if capitalism does fall. You'll have anarchists, Stalinists and even the SJW's at each other's throats before Trump's head even rolls off the guillotine.

Maybe I'm in a bad place because rent was hard to come by this month, maybe I'm just getting old. But if we are ever to overcome anything, we'll have to start dropping these x-ist and y-ist and start unifying for a singular goal. That includes welcoming the SJW's to join and shed their identity politics as well to put their hands into the group and roll their sleeves up. As of now, we're heading into oblivion.

Pure idealism.

It's their system. They have the power to develop it and maintain it.

Again, their system. Their philanthropy, "science," and politics are unimaginable outside capitalism.

The bourgeois in general act much more class-consciously than the proletariat. Again, they have the power to enact their class interests freely. The abstract "freedom" you talk about is presented to them by their own ideology as well: always already incorporated into what is. The proletariat's ideology presents a radically different type of freedom than theirs.

There never was and never will be "true" achievements that are somehow not system-dependent. Since man is a social animal it can't achieve shit without the others recognition, he is not free to desire by himself.

Read, nigga, and stop trying to paint a romanticized picture of our class enemy as poor souls trapped by their own system. Those of the bourgeoisie who are prepared to support our goal could already help us bring about socialism. Very, very few do. They know what is coming and instead, this is their answer: newyorker.com/magazine/2017/01/30/doomsday-prep-for-the-super-rich

Yes

If they could act as a collective, they'd have the power. But that's not the case, they are fighting among themselves as well. The case is that the system is formed by the economic pressure, the capitalist system FORCES them to acquire more capital and propagate norm/laws they might not even like. Otherwise, they would lose in the endless race.

Consider the case that the bourgeoisie hacked feminism into what we see. Some of them a clearly acting against the liberal feminism and they don't like it. It serves the ECONOMIC interests, but not the personal interests (some of them might be religious conservatives or other types of cancer).

...

They're not wrong. It's just unpleasant.

They do, actually. They just don't have the means to acquire it. This is making them more mad, for something they otherwise wouldn't understand as collectivism.

Solid analysis cav user, but
Are you sure? During Russian revolution left-wingers only started killing each other AFTER defeating the whites, in Spain the left immediately started cooperating after the civil war has started, with the cracks emerging a bit later. Even now in Rojava you have the fucking Hoxhaists in the International Freedom Battalion. I wouldn't be so pessimistic about the sectarianism of left-wingers in case of escalation, especially since there is a partially repressed awareness of our victory not being an inevitability which means people wouldn't be as picky anymore.

This. Sectarianism is mostly academic in origin. People don't have time to read deeply into all the strains of leftism so they get attached to whichever one they got familiar with. That's not to say it isn't a problem; sectarianism keeps lefty organizations small and fractious.

source?
at most i can see a case being made for culturally enforced status quo nihilism. other than that, buddy you got nothin.

spooky shit

Your confusion stems from three factors:
1) not separating the political and the economic aspects of capitalism when it is analytically necessary;
2) not differentiating between the universalist (emancipatory) collective and the exclusionary forms of collectives;
3) not taking into account the differences of the normal course of capitalism from its periods of crises.

The ruling class forms affinity groups all the time. These are not proper collectives in the universalist sense, but political and economic collectives nevertheless. It also should be noted that even in the former, people are "fighting among themselves as well," so it seems to me you hold an overly idealized version of organizations. Capitalist crises provide examples of their collective organization, with the introduction of discipline as a necessity dictated by troubled times. They ruthlessly and in unison defend themselves from us whenever our time seems to come.

It's not a question of likes and dislikes, but interests. They clearly like their position, as did the kings, and even if they don't like some laws, they prefer not being overthrown. You talk about the bourgeoisie from a nonexistent POV of an "outside of capitalism."

Again, a superficial and silly distinction. There are no two persons, the proletariat Joe and Joe as a person, Bill Gates as bourgeois and Bill Gates as a person.
this is pure ideology, btw

basically, we're gonna be living in a deus ex era soon with how automation is going.

great movie, class-conscious af

1.not understand thing
2.call thing spook
3.shitpost flag

what point are you trying to make here exactly?

This. This is why the current waves of anti-immigrant, anti-govt, anti-everything are coming from. The proles are like a cornered snake, lasing out at whatever is on TV the most. Education, agitation, and propoganda (memes) can help fight it.

WHO ELSE /POST-LEFT ANARCHY/ HERE

it doesnt exist

the post-left is critiques of leftism
not a call to action

The point is that sooner or later the proletariat are going to have to revolt against the system if they want to make their lives any better. Feudalism ended because the revolutionary power of the bourgeoisie overpowered the aristocracy, and allowed them to drive and progress society. Capitalism will end in the same regard when the proletariat understand their revolutionary and progressive role in society, and revolt.

I think we as communists to a point have to stop relying on what amounts to a spat of evidence in the form of the Russian Revolution and revolutionary Spain. Things today have gotten worse regarding unity of the left, especially in the light of further alienation caused by a hearty growth of the spectacle.

My reasoning? Distance caused by capitalist media and the internet (which can cause huge rifts over tiny things, case in point the recent spat with /r/socialism). I mean, our denial of identity politics in 1917 would've amounted to a published pamphlet that basically would've stood for a wider and general message. Nowadays, any old troll spouting nigger or kike can be seen as representative of our rejection of identity politics and basically used to drown out what could be a huge step towards unifying the left.

I still think that if somehow all of this collapsed and we managed to hang all of the bankers and their trust fund spawn/paid political creatures things would end badly. My best hope is we would all be able to go our separate ways and come together in the future after everything has shaken out.

WHY LEFTYPOL, WHY OH WHY DO YOU PERSIST?

it was pretty meh tbh

It really struck a cord with me because of my experience in city politics. I attended a sort of workshop/internship experience where we were coached as to how to succeed in the political scene. I mean body language at events, how to speak to elected and VIP's to network, public speaker, PR and etc.

Later on, as I expressed wishes to later run for city government in my life I was approached by the minion of the leader of the local Democratic Party Chair. He told me that I would be groomed to run, and when my time came be blessed off to run in what amounted to "her city". What I needed to do was dedicate myself to her service and basically become a figure for her in the meantime, and work for peanuts in her service.

I couldn't help later when watching this movie how the government (which we know operates for and at the behest of capital) probably eats up millions of people like me and spits out corrupted, wrinkled pieces of shit who can't do anything except operate as a complete PR spectacle.

Fuck, user. Why you gotta bring me down like that, I just got off work.

bump

I think you're pretty cool, Cavalryfag… f-for a trip poster, of course.

Delusional and narcissistic.

...

will this happen before or after they line up to buy the latest iphone?

pls kys

wrong flag OP

...

M8 I am immoral as fuck and out no value in anyone's life but mine and the people I like.
I have no desire for revolution because life is comfy if you got money and I fucking love video games and nerdy tv series and movies

show me as many average people excited about radicalism as those excited about the latest apple product or marvel movie and i'll start tying the noose