P2w apologism

Fuck off, SA ENABLED wojack in shitty "feels ;;(" threads. Quit projecting you soulless motherfucker.

CRAWLING IN MY SKIN

Are you a nigger?

God damn you make me angry you little faggot. I can just see you now, sniggering at having made another shitpost. Flicking back and forth between threads eagerly awaiting (you)s which are the only form of social interraction in your life. You've probably spent every night of 2017 this way, stuffing cheap processed food into your mouth as you shit up MY FUCKING BOARD with your vapid horseshit. The closest thing you have to friends are the ants living on the crumbs inside your keyboard, at some point we could have counted your mother but she probably doesn't go near the room now, even reaching for the doorhandle reducing her to a sobbing wreck. I can picture you reading this and thinking of an epic zinger to reply with, as you idly swing one of your poosocks around your head. The grin on your face revealing your yellow teeth accented with hints of green from copious consumption of Mountain Dew, the ends of your fat sausage fingers stained orange from Dorito consumption. To call you subhuman would be degrading to subhumans, to call you scum inadequate since that's the only thing you produce. You are the lowest possible form of life, you are to single celled organisms as an abortion is to a person. I'd tell you to kill yourself but you're so fucking filthy your corpse would probably re-animate and continue as usual. An eternity of being flayed alive is not ample punishment for the severity of the stain you have left on this world, having to touch your rancid hide for even a semptosecond would be a greater punishment than that to whatever unfortunate entity had to carry out the act. Even once the stars have burned out, and the universe is an endless black void dotted with dead celestial bodies, it will be a worse place because you existed. For the love of god and all things holy, leave, and never come back.

Pay to not grind is still pay to win.

See what the idiots defending P2W bullshit have to understand, is that a game being P2W doesn't automatically make it shit. Warframe is purely PvE (let's not even pretend for a second anyone gives a fuck about Enclave) and thus other people being stronger either doesn't effect you at all, or helps you because they can pull more weight.
It's only games that are competitive where a P2W model is cancerous.

Warframe is unabashedly P2W, money can get you more powerful gear, upgrades to improve said gear, mods to draw out the power of said gear, etc. OP picture is basically spot on, and the old flowchart is still the correct definition of P2W.

Al Dente my friend!

No amount of money (unless you count trading, which kinda invalidates the whole thing) could get someone the gear I autistically ground long and hard for.

Hello shill

(heiled)
hello, retard.

I don't know where you came from, but you need to die.

Nice derail with 10yo memes.
Anyway.

At this point I'm convinced that most modern online grinders (all of them?) are not real video games.
Sure they are far more interactive than walking sims, but still you can't really lose in them, they don't require skill, or analytical thinking, not even basic patter recognition.
Fucking kirby games, while easy as shit, are still games since you can lose in them, you need to put effort (however small) in them, they are at least meet the minimum requirement of being video games.
MMOs just don't. Well maybe buy-to-pay games like FF14 or WOW, where somewhere at the end game you need some basic communicative skills to win a raid fight or something and as far as I know you can only buy skins in them, those might count as games in the end.
But the rest what's out there - not so much.
And yeah with real money you can bypass whatever little "content" these non-game might have, completely defeating the entire point of actively playing them.

where's the back of the picture?

This post warmed my heart.

Good thread

Is there a way to tell apart shills, that get in-game pittances for promoting their shit everywhere, and whales who spent so much time and money on it, they genuinely feel offended when somebody calls their shitty games out?

Thats the whole point though, DE lets you trade and boost, and between those things you can buy your way to full gear
Meanwhile the lottery system that is gear drops can fuck people over for weeks at a time while they play the same barely-above-average gameplay. It is a gear treadmill where you can buy your way past the treadmill. It doesn't matter if you buy directly from a cash shop or pay DE to acquire shit from another player

Also if you don't want to get called a shill, maybe don't post like one.

What is the functional difference between the two?

the shill arguments are usually thought out and cohesive in comparison whale's flat out denying the game is p2w.

So trading systems are pay to win now?

Difference is that shills should be ignored or banned outright, while whales should be bullied and shitsmeared, preferably to the point of emotional breakdown.

Sounds about right.

If you can get shit to trade directly from the chash shop then yes.

:^|

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Bitch please

I suppose I just enjoy bullying too much to differentiate

There is no point in bullying shill, as he either doesn't give a fuck, or actually agrees with you but still argues for shits and giggles since it's his job anyway.

I'm going with Granblue since that's the most obvious p2w here. Many don't defend it. Hell some actually talk about videogames outside of cute girls but that usually just resorts to someone being screwed by RNG or boasting how lucky they are. From what I've seen, anyone saying they spent money gets belittled (though we know some faggots definitely will spend money). The people who play them range from casuals to bored people waiting for something or using it while figuring out what game to dedicate to next. From what I've seen, it's one of the more fun F2P games out there.

Since the main catch for this game is cute girls and music, you can look that all up.
CG sprites
exhentai.org/g/1110592/3f600ca2f7/
exhentai.org/g/1110599/35a89c25de/

On another note. People may talk about them ruining Holla Forums but the pointless shitposting doesn't help. Instead of just making a quality thread they would go out of their way to shit up another. Essentially eating where they shit. Shitposting only promotes more shitposting and doesn't help out anyone. I don't even visit the threads with this being my second time only because OP mentioned it to see if he was right about them being apologists.

Games are games whether they're scummy whale extractors or not. Also it doesn't sound like you play any of the games or genres you talk about. Games like Archage made P2W way too powerful and the game died (there were also many other reasons). Many others you can play just fine without paying and most don't. Remember that whales are the few these companies are aiming for. While 97% of the people don't spend money, the few that do is all the companies need. They have to make the game fun and fair enough for that 97% of people to keep playing to convince others to play in the attempt to get a new whale.
archive.is/OZYkj

Most are simply cosmetic while the some make the grind easier instead of bypassing any sort of challenge. Some gem systems, like in Kritika Online, just make it so you have more lives. Playing on anything lower than hard makes it so you'll never die most of the time. But the real fun is on hard and makes the game more hectic. When I lost all my lives I just played something else. Most people would do this. Here's gameplay of Kritika Online for example. Completely F2P and you can keep playing as long as you don't die too often. Midway through the vid you can see them get team wiped because they weren't paying attention to the guy's attacks.

Mobile "games" should not be allowed here at all.

Nothing wrong with feels as long as it doesn't become a circlejerk. Wojack was one of the VERY FIRST enablers for this. Fuck wojack, fucking tard.

From the waist down.

Holy shit

This place is steadily turning into a hugbox.
"If you don't like something, just hide and ignore it" is cancer.
Now we already have a bunch of p2w trash threads afloat without any repercussions, and you can now and again see DRM and DLC apologists/shills popping up defending cancerous AAA and indie devs.
I dunno if it's minfestation of Mark and his pocketboys being nintoddlers or something else, but at this rate we will keep spiraling downwards.
DRM shills, SJWs, waifufags and p2w whales feel welcome here, so they keep invading the board with less and less people shitting on them and mods doing NOTHING about them, fucking NOTHING.

Don't fool yourself, there is no free speech, you can't even post CP or politics anywhere anymore, so at least use moderation to weed out cancer, instead of turning 8/v/ into echo chamber.

Do you expect to be able to?

Oh and yes we have furshit thread not deleted and not locked out there.
Fucking furshit thread disguised as VIDOEGAEMSxdd.
Fucking disgusting.

what is the furshit thread in question?

I expect moderation tools to be used properly without shitty "free speech" excuse, where there isn't one.

Biomutant or some shit. It has furry pic so it's not hard to notice.

Ok, so I see you're on of those retards. It should've been abundantly clear already, but that solidified it.

Yeah nah. That sort of hotpocketery is the reason why we moved in the first place. Hide and ignore is a perfectly viable option for you if you can't contain your butthurt.

Oh yeah. Retard confirmed.

A couple of years ago I'd assume you're having a giggle there, but now I think you're legit human cancer.

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What makes Granblue Fantasy not a game? This looks like something you would see in Final Fantasy. Funny enough, it's more of a RPG than Final Fantasy XV. And why are you calling mobile games "games" when most have been clones of those shitty flash games we've found on Newgrounds or Addictinggames ages ago?

I understand that the reason why people don't want mobile game threads is because it will attract more casuals and such. But pretending we don't know what games are anymore just because we hate them is retarded. VN threads are allowed here (because some have gameplay and people who say VNs do not don't actually read or play any VN) and they have way more quality discussion than most threads here. VNs, for the most part, barely even have gameplay and we can still good a good discussion out of them.

People spend too much time talking about the shit they don't like instead of playing games and making quality threads about the games they do like. Instead we have bunch of bored people who refuse to play games making shitty template threads with vague relevance to video games.

Is it really impossible to have anthro characters anymore? Can you not watch 90s cartoons or Looney Toons because some jackass jacks off to the characters? There isn't anything wrong with anthro characters and you're having a knee jerk reaction because someone could fap to them.

When I was an edgy 14 year old I used to care about such things. Now I can see it for what it is - a game that drains your cash as you play, as opposed to traditional fixed upfront payment. It's an alternate version of a subscription fee, except you can still play if you don't pay the fee, although your experience will be limited.

Is it worth the money you spend in pay2win shop? That depends - did you enjoy the game you got? If so, it was worth it.

Do you ever have a rare moment of clarity where you suddenly realize how much a piece of human garbage you are? Or are you just completely lacking in self-awareness like all furfags?

Also, a question to people who shit endlessly on these free to play games. How else do you want to pay for the game? Would you rather just upfront sixty dollars? A sub fee? Because it is free, and they need to make a return on investment, so how do you suppose they do that?

keep crying. And there is severe irony in your post.

You don't fucking compare GB to real FF.
Being more of an RPG that XV or XIII isn't much of an achievement.
VNs are not video games, fuck you mark.

Kill yourself

make an argument how about?

"They got kids to feed" is not an argument to validate kikery, dipshit.

The Dota model which has worked for more than half a decade. Everything is free, only shitty pixels cost money.

P2w is cancer, but communism is fucking bubonic plague. kys

It certainly is faggot. People need to be compensated for their work, otherwise they will not work.

Alright, I'll accept that.

Stop fucking feeding 65382f with free (you)s.
No fucking body can be this retarded, he clearly bullshits you.

Who let Holla Forums in here?

Well that last post just proved exactly what you say to be true

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Pay up front so I can play them offline on my phone.

FF is one of the most casual RPGs and many other RPGs have more depth than them. It being compared to GB shouldn't even be an insult. Also what exactly do you mean by "real FF"? They have been changing their gameplay all the time. Or are recent FF games not FF like game like how Lost Planet 3 isn't Lost Planet? Which is understandable since FFXV isn't even a RPG. At least Dissidia and and Crystal Chronicles are obviously spin offs with different gameplay. Meanwhile FFXV is a main line game that refuses to be a RPG.

As for VNs, many games are considered VNs like Phoenix Wright, 999, Kamidori Alchemy Meister, and Sengoku Rance. This is why VNs are allowed and going over which is a kinetic novel with every single person who thinks every VN is a kinetic novel is tedious. Saying that, not all VNs are games.

That's true.
And GB has even less depth than that. No dungeons, no exploration, the most basic rpg system possible, and what's left is fighting which is also absurdly dumbed down even by early FF standards.
It's a standard mobile trash only autistic waifufags care about.

See user, we can agree about some things.

No (you)s for furfags from me today, nope.
I bet he hates GB because it doesn't have furries in it.

Fine, we can both be autists about this. I hate it because there is no fucking gameplay, and it's FOTM like kantai, kemono friends, and such other garbage.

If a game has weapons you can purchas but balances the weapons properly making everything have its advantages and disadvantages it is not p2w to purchase them. Also the fact you are calling POE of all things p2w just shows the amount of mental retardation you have. Lack of basic problem solving and understanding should be bannable.

Took you long enough cuckbois.

Last time I checked the only thing purchasable in POE was cosmetics. Maybe next time you should actually play the games you seem to be so angry about.

Stash tabs nigger.
An objective gameplay advantage, in a game based around item trading no less.
It's as p2w as you can get.

You are really stretching the reach of your shitty argument there. So you are angry that the game is forcing to pay to hoard the hell out every item you see? The stash you have is more than a enough to get you through several play throughs if you don't cling onto every rare item you get and clean it out every once in awhile.

Really faggot? Why not make skins at that point?

Objective. Advantage. For cash.

I was thinking about making a Pokemon Go thread just to watch the cognitive dissonance of a board that has shat on the game since its inception while pay2nogrind mobage shit such as DBZ Dokkan and Granblue get daily threads. I dont even care about the game anymore.

It's ok if Holla Forums can fap to it.
Problem is Holla Forums can fap on anyting.

Have another gallon of diarrhea, coprophage. I hope you die of infection.

Sounds about right. I've played it for a little bit once and got bored. I would rather play a dungeon crawler for my turn based combat fix. Though Demon Gaze was pretty casual, I'm looking forward to the second game. I want to see if I can do a solo run on that too.

In the fighting game threads, some actually thought about playing SFV again just because it had a new cute belly dancer. Only to realize she was awfully balanced and the game its self is still bad. At least the fan content is great when it comes to Kantai, Granblue, and Fate. Granblue has a great soundtrack and there's so nice Kantai doujin music.

Fuck off, shill. Go jerk off to your pathetic ecelebs.

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Get lost wiener face.

Why did he choose dota? the game literally has no pay to win features.

The exact quote
Acknowledging Dota 2 doesn't do Pay2Win, while simultaneously misunderstanding why Dota 2 is currently dying. Because the Dota 2 example blows all the other fucking MOBAs out of the fucking water when it comes to Pay2Win at least.

what advantage is that?

Gacha out the ass, designed to milk money from retarded whales.

In Granblue's case those whales would truly have to be retarded because in order to get the tippy top best possible gear and party one would have to spend (I estimate) close to $10000 or more. Even a casual whale would have to spend the hours in order to grind up their grid, and only an insanely ridiculous amount of gacha can change that.

Not Granblue but rather Fate/Grand Order
It was a good day.

that's nothing, there was some retarded jap that spent the equivalent to 7k dollars trying to get a monkey girl, and he didn't get her, some consumer protection agency was on cygames' ass because of this, and they implemented a feature to get any character after 300 gacha rolls after this

Oh Japs are fucking insane, they take it to another level. I remember one Japanese guy spending more on gatcha rolls because he was trying to get Illya for his lolicon ass, and I can't remember how much he spend but I think it was approaching millions of yen but I can't remember the fucking number.

bruh thanks for the copypasta

You w-wouldn't pirate a copypasta… would you?

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Should just see Star Citizen threads :^)

That game isn't even pay to win.
It's pay to have no game.

Also according to your chart, POE isn't even pay to win. Get it together, fam.

Even if it's less overall than other years,it still is a good ammount of shekels.

It's not at it's high-point but half a million players mothly(with it peaking at almost 900 million Players-per-month) is not something I'd describe as "dying".

k

Not really, no. It's Pay2Hoard (conveniently), which can be a big deal for the type of autist that plays diablo clones, but that's as far as it goes.

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If you're reaching far enough that additional stash space (when your default stash is massive and you can freely create mules to swap items between) is "p2w gameplay unlocks" in a coop game, might as well throw cosmetics in the P2W category as well since one of the primary motivators is getting gear that looks better.

Cosmetics do not affect gameplay.
Storage space does.

It does when your core gameplay is based arounc character improvement and specifically getting prettier/better gear.

I'll bet you're the same retard that likes to project that everyone that plays the game has also spent thousands of dollars on it, even though there isn't enough shit in the cash shop that anyone can spend thousands of dollars on

Corporate defense league always stand ready to defend the interests of their overlords and paymasters.

Gas the jews was a joke. But gas the furfags has always been 100% real.

Here, you act like you want it.

This a billion times.

I wonder if you're legit or just falseflagging.
As someone who played shitton moderate amount of PSO2 I realize full well how you can buy power with real money in it, but let's being with the storage:
1 - Storage slots IS an objective gameplay benefit, especially in games like PSO2 and POE where you can't grind for them. So yes marginally it alone makes it p2w. Paying players have objectively better conditions than those who don't. Even if you could grind for it like in Warframe, it would still be technically p2w.
2 - PSO2 goes beyond just selling storage, it sells sellable items - costumes, attribute changers, shit like that, that you can sell to other players for in-game money and spend that money on strengthening your gear. Some items are inherently expensive like hair styles and lobby actions, potentially netting seller tens or even hundreds of millions of in-game dosh.
3 - Actual ability to sell shit, while grindable is also being sold in cash shop. I think you can buy 30 and more days of selling ability, while in-game item gives you like 3 days, and you should spend like 20k fun points to get it. It's not a lot, especially since magatsu and removal of 10* trade passes, but before that it was a major luxury.
4 - It also sells character slots, which paired with quest cool down system allows players who buy extra characters earn more money per week, than those who only use default 3 slots.
5 - Dumb shit like buyable revives is the most blatant form of p2w, making you virtually invincible as long as you're willing to pay. Kinda like an old arcade automate.
I can't imagine anything doing it, but it's there.

So. While unlike most MMOs PSO2 does not shove cash shop in your face most of the time, and is very well playable without paying, is by all definitions p2w game.
Affixes in pic 2 is something paying player with 0 meseta can in 1 day buy just selling gacha items.
If you're not paying player starting with 0, you might need months to grind for fodders/money for fodders, not regarding leveling character that can even accomplish it.
Again I'm talking about affixes alone, not the item itself.

Mindbreak.

This industry has been systemically raping and torturing gamers into submission.

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Gee user when you put it that way

wew laddie
you like a pay to win game, it's okay, i like some pay to win games too.

It's not pay to win if someone else is paying for you. :^)

That goalpost moving aside, you're still dead fucking wrong here. Only totally ignorant fucking noobs think that money should be spent to "get ahead" in the game.
- Storage slots are conveniences that don't actually offer any gameplay benefit because they don't alter how the game plays, the game isn't any more easy or difficult to play based on how much storage you have. If leaving loot on the field due to full character storage means the game is difficult to you then you're not only an idiot but you're a fucking retard to boot. Full bag, telepipe to campship, sell your excess shit, use some of those earnings to buy more telepipe, rinse repeat. It's the same fucking method Diablo 2 uses. You kill shit, you portal back to town, sell your shit and go back out to do it again and again and again. By your definition of storage being p2w, the expanded stash space you got in the Diablo 2 expansion made it a p2w game, since you had to purchase the expansion with money to get that benefit.
- Costumes, attribute changers and shit like that only come from the scratch cards, you can't buy those specific items directly from the cash shop. In-game shops have shit like lambda grinders available for other forms of currency you could grind for too. The only kind of attribute changer that's available for funbux is a Mag Reset item. I'm also fairly certain that the scratch cards that cost funbux only have costumes and room decorations anyway, the scratch cards that actually contain items used in grinding gear are purchased with FUN points, currency you can't get via funbux.
- The ability to sell shit to other players is only useful if you have an expensive cosmetic item you received from a funbux card, and that shit usually sells really fast. Those same free cards can also net you some free passes to sell shit to other players for a few days. If you can't liquidate your expensive shit to other players over the course of three days on a free My Shop pass then you're a fucking failure of a human being. If you see people selling weapons and units with "expensive affixes" on them, they're selling them to trap idiots into paying for something that's freely available by playing the damn game like normal.
That's also something people who pay money have to deal with.
- Those quest cooldown items don't even work on Klotho's weekly quests anyway.
- Nobody buys the revives from the cash shop because people are either good enough to not need one or they just use the multitudes of free revives they get from logging into the game and from twitter campaigns, they're noob trap items.

Keep it up, I'd like to see where you move the goalposts to next.

i'ld think this were bait if not for the essay that follows

I'm pretty sure we were talking about PSO2, not Rimworld or Dorf Fort where actual storage and allocation of resources IS part of the gameplay.

Can't really argue with this. I'm someone who believes in personal freedom and I certainly don't care what people do with their lives. I barely care about my own life.

Just ignore 95% of the game industry.

so what exactly is it if not a gameplay element?
it is one

Yes you fucking retard! That's how it's always been until this decade. Where the hell do you people come from?

ebin

P2W shills/whales like these games because it allows them to use their immense incomes to bash around everyone else regardless of skill level. It's not going to change anytime soon. I find it sickening that shit like Granblue is discussed here on the regular like it isn't part of the problem.

I briefly delved into a Game of War clone (FFXIV A New Empire) on mobile a while back (only because one of my friends was also playing it and I wanted to see how bad it really was for myself - somehow he had gotten himself addicted to it and I had nothing better to do while I was visiting) where people were literally spending tens if not hundreds of thousands of actual money on microtransactions. The divide between the whales and even the players who bought packs even somewhat regularly was obscene, to the point where to this day I feel like some of the whales were actually devs just hacking their shit in.

One player in particular I remember was supposedly a woman who had this rich husband and literally all she did all day was waste his money on the game (she obviously had no job of her own). Anyone who played the game for more than an hour knew about her (there was only one server at the time as the game was in Alpha) as she was notoriously bad at the game yet often spent more on it in a day than most players would earn in a month, and the top guilds all constantly fought wars against each other over her. She started off in the guild my friend and I were in and left to 'get lessons on how to play' from other whales (she joined the second largest guild at the time), yet the main asshole guild of the game (which was the largest and was obviously made up exclusively of whales itself) kept attacking our guild for even allowing her to leave to join their main rival, like we even had a choice in the matter.

And don't even get me fucking started on how the devs kept drastically increasing build/research times and costs over time so that newer players were at an increasingly monumental disadvantage that even some newer whales were complaining about it (hell my friend made the mistake of thinking the devs actually wanted feedback - he kept giving them so much genuinely constructive feedback that they ended up blacklisting him as they thought he was just 'stirring shit', I kid you not). Hell the game was handed to Machine Zone (the devs of Game of War itself) by SquareEnix but MZ just ended up fobbing it off to their B-team, Epic Action. I feel like if I were SquareEnix I'd be a little pissed at how MZ didn't even feel like the Final Fantasy franchise was worth their full attention but maybe that's just me. And I swear they're paying people to keep giving the game 4-5 star ratings on Google Play (most of said reviews are purely because the game is based on Final Fantasy, not because it's actually a good game). And then there's the case of the screenshots and both trailers released to date being absolutely fucking nothing like the actual game (the game they 'showed' in the first trailer they released actually looked like it might have been decent). Also I just realized they hired some random model for that trailer and are now marketing it as if she's in the actual game, much like those Evony ads we're all familiar with).

And people wonder why I never took mobile gaming seriously. Just thinking about this one P2W game makes me realize just how much worse PC and console gaming can (and will) get.

This is just sad. I never understood people who play these games willingly and don't pay. It's such a bad experience.

Reminds me of those seniors spending their lives at the casino slot machines.

I mean I have no life but I'm not THAT far gone yet.

Yet these games routinely shut down within a couple of years for being unprofitable.

The problem with this game in particular though is that even paying a couple hundred now and then won't get you very far - at least not after all the nerfs. If you want to do well you had better be a millionaire or know one.

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Most likely due to gross mismanagement more than any actual income problems.

I don't like grinding like some fucking autist, doing the exact same shit for hours and hours to bump up a couple meaningless numbers. So sometimes I like to spend a little money to save time, that's what money is for - using it to avoid doing shit you don't wanna do. If you can't afford the cheapass EXP boost or its equivalent in your vidya of choice, consider getting a fucking job and not acting like some entitled welfare nigger who wants life to be easy and everything for free.

I know this is a strange concept and has never been tried before but: you could remove both the microtransaction part, and the grinding/inconveniences that only exist to force microtransaction purchases, and be left with something that was simply fun to play.

You mean getting your constructions and upgrades completed instantly? May as well play Age of Empires with infinite resources you fucking casual.

yes user, that's exactly what i mean.

Then how long is too long, O wise guru of games?

How long it was in the old days I'm guessing, similar to games like Age of Empires where it takes 30 secs to build things.

And oftentimes a single game would take way too long when you've got shit to do. A paying player should have the right to speed up the game if they wish, unless they're some fucking macfag.

is any time frame going to get a heterosexual response from you?
do you accept the basic premise that unnecessary grind is inserted into games to push microtransactions? if you do then "too long" is any longer than it would be without the microtransaction shit.

Wasnt the real definition:
If you can buy shit that cant be unlocked by playing = pay to win
Thats not to say that they cant go full jew that pretty much means its pay to win like having free players grind months for an item that costs like 1€

It's okay user, you don't have to pretend you know what you're talking about, we're all anonymous here. Just take your licks and bounce.

The biggest issue is that the games with a progression system are designed around the microtransactions/boosts and are artificially lengthened so that the player will pay to skip the grind. LoL, GTA Online and basically every F2P game (especially mobile) are guilty of this. If they were $60 one off purchases with no microtranactions then the progression would be vastly different since their goal is player happiness/retention instead of pushing people into paying to skip the grind. This also affects the core design of the game, people aren't playing because the game is fun, they are playing because it's a Skinner Box and they are addicted to the rewards.

that doesn't capture the mobileshits like dungeon keeper.

so that's a no to my first question. a dodge on the second. and outright ignoring the answer to your question.

Just bait these anons which you think are whales, or write just truth about f2p/p2w.
That these games existence is dependant on whales and if they are gone then game is closed and all they did in it is meaningless.

It isn't about what is game and what isn't.
It's about game existing only that long as devs gain shekels from it.
Flash games didn't demand to throw money for possibility of getting some flavour/waifu unit of week.
Also if these IP won't leave mobile with any game on other consoles or PC they will just vanish.

Once you've spent tens of thousands of dollars on a game, it's no longer a choice on whether or not to play it. You're investing shittons of money into this, thus not playing it would be a waste of money.
Where this really gets awful is in EVE Online, where the stuff you spend money on can actually be destroyed and you can never get it again.

No shit but that's not the point, the point is that players should be able to control their progression and their experience in the game, or it's a bad game.

Fags don't get straight answers. Try changing your ID and asking intelligent questions.

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Contribute something to your argument besides buzzwords, memes and other non-arguments or fuck off entirely.

P2W apologism has come about because of the legion of dweebagoon autists on this board that will excuse anything some slant puts out.

I already did, learn to follow IDs.

You've done precisely jack shit to support your argument. Instead you bitch about meta shit and wonder why you aren't taken seriously.
Fuck off already.

You are both Wrong.
The reason PoE's stash tabs are pay to win is because you can only trade with other players on the forums using those tabs. More tabs more items to trade more Judaism.

Wow I should have scrolled a little more before making this post.
I don't see the point in trying to claim individual systems of being P2W or not P2W. It just devolves into shit flinging. OP, like a lot of people in the thread, is a fucking idiot who cant stand it when someone has fun doing something he doesn't have fun doing.
P2W is only a problem in really shit games that are only made to prey on whales with addiction problems or when it negatively impacts a gameplay system that would have been good otherwise.
Examples of each being:
Farmville/Facebook games in general being predatory devices.
League of legends, etc, where paying money gives you a direct advantage against other players.
And not so egregious systems like Warframe, where the gameplay is fun(subjective) and not impacted at all by microtransactions(objective).

Pay to win was originally a PVP term because you'd pay for an advantage over your OPPONENT.

If it's PVE then there's no 'winning'. Typically there's no end to these types of games anyway which is why people spend 100s of hours playing them and want to invest in them. All the problems with F2P games that are PVE & have non-cosmetic purchasable items is not the business model. Take Warframe for example. Many cancerous things about it, but its business model, no matter how much you may not like it personally, isn't actually that bad in the grand scheme of things for a PVE F2P. It has much bigger problems with its core game design and burnout.

The biggest issue is that the games with a progression system are designed around the microtransactions/boosts and are artificially lengthened so that the player will pay to skip the grind. LoL, GTA Online and basically every F2P game (especially mobile) are guilty of this. If they were $60 one off purchases with no microtranactions then the progression would be vastly different since their goal is player happiness/retention instead of pushing people into paying to skip the grind. This also affects the core design of the game, people aren't playing because the game is fun, they are playing because it's a Skinner Box and they are addicted to the rewards.>>13371970

You mean by PLAYING the game instead of paying to avoid playing the game?

Are you a whale or a shill?

You can sell old weapons and frames to make space for new ones. Once they hit their level cap you should be doing that anyway.
You can also trade with other players for plat
You're right, I misspoke. I should have said minimally impacted.
I do it for free :)

bump

Forums aren't part of the fucking game. Also SSF leagues exist where its strictly single player, as do many race and challenge leagues.

Thank you.

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leftykikes stop raiding. Thanks.

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get back to whatever non/v/idya place you crawled out from
neither you nor your commie counterparts are welcome here

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Try reading that again

What's the context for this though? If you're always matched up with people of the same level, it's really more like "pay to progress at a reasonable level" rather than "pay to win". Not that'd I'd ever play a game with such mobile trash-tier system to begin with.

I am confused.

The Germans were too lenient with the kikes and should have killed them all for real instead of just trying to expel them. What about this is hard to understand?

So the nazis were pussies? Why try to identify with pussies?

You're leveling slowly than paying players, i.e. you are losing to them.

No shit? It's almost as if this is what everyone has identified as the reason we are in this situation since forever and why we need to kill the non-whites, who have no such limitations, once and for all.

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You often have to, to stop stupid ideas from getting picked up by others.

What

*In a

In a race against other players.
Who levels faster wins.
Who has better gear wins.
Who has better gear first wins.
What are you casual?

Good games let players control their experience. If that requires microtransactions, then so be it.

You sound like a tremendous try hard faggot, just have fun. Inb4 >fun wherearewe.png

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Goodest of goys.

Casual confirmed. I bet you have nintendo platform too faggot.

Whatever faggots. It's not like it's that expensive, get a fucking job.

You are a fool. Companies that thrive off of kikery absolutely adore people like you. Let me spell this out for you, so that you can stop hurting yourself trying to think: the entire point of microtransaction bullshit is to appear cheap. This "business model" is a concrete example of death by a thousand cuts. They reel you in with a small purchase here and there, ya know, just to help you along the way, and they grab you by the balls by compelling you to spend "just a little more" a whole bunch of times. Don't believe me? Go read the accounts of some people who have gotten hopelessly addicted to gacha shit or the fucking chicanery of a kiked "game" like Star Citizen. "Well, I've spent much more than I should have, but it would be waste to stop now."

How 'bout you go fuck yourself, instead? I wish I were in a position to put a bullet in your worthless skull. I don't give a shit if you want to waste your damn money like it's going out of style, but don't come in here and start talking down to people who aren't your brand of useful idiot.

Fucking NEET boohooing about not being able to afford a couple bucks here and there and rationalizing his failures to convince himself he chose this, like a fucking woman. Get fucked.

Can you buy anything that isnt a cosmetic? It's p2w. There are also cases of games that have cosmetics that give you an advantage because they make you blend in with the enviroment. Faggots have been trying to change the definition for ages.

buying cosmetics is p2w for Holla Forums too. while it's really not, it's a shame they won't let you unlock them through in-game challenges instead since that way they actually mean something.

this is b8 m8

That plat was originally purchased with real dollars.

This user knows what's up.

t. Faggot who spent $400 on LoL since it came out, and got permad 3 years ago for something I didnt do and rejected my appeal without evidence.

You don't matter. You are just a number to them. As soon as you stop paying, youre less than that.

I don't get it. Do you think you've "lost" if someone beats a single-player game before you did? Like if your friend beat Dark Souls before you did, do you think you've failed? Do you have insecurities?

Explain the need for highscore tables in single player games, please.

Speed runners and other manchildren obsessed with their e-peens.

These people are allowed to vote.
These people are allowed to breed.
These people shitpost along with you on the same board.

It's the same handful of shit taste spergs who drive all the mobileshit threads. Marku is just too pussy to slap their shit as usual.

My point wasn't that you can't be competitive.
Besides, the important thing in a highscore is the score, doesn't matter what date it's achieved unless you're having some kind of "race" with someone. And in that case, why would you race some faggot using exp boosts?

There is no need for highscore tables in single player games.