I just got done playing the game all the way through and honestly thought it was pretty good. Looks great...

is there still no crack available?

$20 doesn't guarantee a huge amount of content from a big corp, unfortunately.
I'd pay $44.99 for 32+, higher density sprites and even further polished gameplay mechanics, honestly.
I've even started writing down some zones I want made.

Romhacking sounds like a pain in the ass, but a satisfying pain in the ass, like getting fucked in the ass and being forced to orgasm via prostate.

These are some of my favorite tracks, 1/2.
The game itself was pretty good but I had to refund it because of Denuvo.

2/2.

I liked the game, but is it buggy as all hell.

Does it really feel that good?

It's pretty sad that the best game of the year is a retread of a 20 year old game. That being said I played all this through after replaying the classic games and it's pretty good.

I need to learn how to romhack.

Why did it take Sega two decades to give their fanbase what they've been asking for?

Because another section of the fanbase - a younger fanbase who only experienced sonic after Adventure - was screaming louder.

there's a sense of disappointment when it hits you that you're replaying an old level from an earlier sonic game, but that feeling subsides once you see the new designs they introduced to the levels that bring out what makes them great. Overall it's fantastic and may be the best sonic game yet. It is boosted by the fact it's standing on the shoulders of giants.

also, as predicted, denuvo shitters make this game impossible to discuss. Would have been better off never releasing the game on PC.

Fantastic game Holla Forums just dislikes it because they have to wait longer til they get to pirate it. I mean what SEGA did is shitty but it's not a reason to hate the game.

Physical release when?

I felt a bit disappointed the secret boss wasnt as well made compared to the last boss. But the music was really damn good I loved all the stages. I heard something about mods being a thing for this so I can't wait to play as metal sonic when it happens.

knuckles best

10/10 but S3&K is better. :^) LISTEN.

Is there a high quality OST available?

Files are ripped from the game, will update when they're available officially. For now, this is the best quality

mega.nz/#!vZ1QXRZC!JWmMbaUZeZPyGMofD3ypL_u4ew4HN06W4vkyC6JailA

I don't know why I have downloaded this even when I still don't have the game since the is crack is still not out yet, but thanks for that.

Not him, by the way.

...

Finished the game in less than two hours, it was kind of disappointing, but on the bright side I didn't have to pay for it, and it worked in a VM

Why?

It felt a bit too much like Sonic 1/2 mobile.

It's kind of like, have you ever played a bad Singleplayer Source engine game?
Where it kind of has that "This is just half life, but with different levels and models" kind of feeling? If that makes sense.

Explain more please, I'd like to make some notes about this.
Engine, controls, fluidity, graphics, level design, color pallate, etc.
What's bothering you?

Cummies

I'm someone who grew up with the Mega Drive Sonic's and have played through the 3D games. (most rented) Now that's out of the way this is spoiler heavy. Sonic Mania is the sonic game I've wanted since I was a kid when I got a Sega Saturn at Christmas. A continuation after S&K with new levels with homages to old with updates, new enemies (I love the individual Eggman henchmen robot designs) new hot tunes and I love the new special stage also with its mix between CD, 3 and 2. There were moments in this game that actually surprised me like the mean bean boss fight, the magician henchman turning the Caterkiller into a giant boss, having fang, bean and bark having cameo's was cool also.

Really enjoyable and replayable.

Was pretty good, but relied too heavily on empty references and gimmicks instead of good design
Also there were a shitload of parts in almost every level that were practically autorun segments, and that's super gay

Way too easy. A friend told me it was harder than the Genesis Sonics and I was thoroughly disappointed by the difficulty.

Also that

...

Denuvo!
Denuvo!
How did you know?
Denuvo!
Denuvo!
Everybody's talkin' bout
Denuvo!
Denuvo!

Is it cracked yet? Despite the bullshit, PC version is be more superior because of mods.

It doesn't feel like it is it's own game. It just kind of feels standard to the engine it is in, if that makes sense.

The game is good, great even. but nothing about the game feels particularly new.
What I mean is that Sonic 2 felt like a noticeable improvement on 1 and Sonic 3 also felt like an improvement on 2, Maina Is really 1, 2, 3&K, and CD combined with a few more new stages and bosses. and i guess that's what they wanted, and it's not bad at at all.

Though It feels like what DMC4 Special edition is. A cool new addition to an old game that makes it worth playing again, but not the true Next game in the series.

Maybe if the game was just new stages it would feel like it had more of it's own identity.

Also having the blue sphere mini game available everytime you pass a starpost with 25 rings is a little much.

...

...

Why do people keep saying they are relyent on old maps, when less then 1/3rd of the game is even old stuff?

Are people really going to argue Stages like Metallic Madness and stardust speedway are "The same Levels again". Even stages like Hydrocity have a fusion of stuff from Sonic 1 in its first area.

Despite the classic zones being noticeably different they are still the same old zones I've played before.

Thank God they aren't, those zones were a slog to explore, like most of the game but especially so. At least in Mania, I don't need to spend 10 minutes searching all over for random bullshit.

Thoughts on the Hard Boiled Heavies? Also I want to say Titanic Monarch was pretty fun and challenging for a final level. And also when you think about it, if you combine all the original levels in Mania, it's around the same length as an Episode of Sonic 4.

It was too linear and the parts where you weren't being automatically propelled forward by springs focused way too much on those 3&K bonus balls instead of the actual skills you've spent the game honing

Eggman needs a family after this, they rejected the "Eggman gets depression" idea, but they could use it for the next game, and have his family and THEIR robots take over. In my opinion, it would be an excellent way to expand on the villains and use different styles for each character, not only adding to how different they are, but for the sake of adding new dynamics to the Sonic formula.
I've been thinking too much and may have "accidentally" created a narrative and story for the next game,

dictionary.com/browse/frenzy
What comes after a Mania?

It helps that none of the Heavies are destroyed besides King

...

I'm damned certain the easier difficulty is because it's not in 4:3. This is coming from someone that's beaten the 2011 version of CD, Time Twisted, and Mania, all of which have 16:9 support, but struggles with Sonic 2.

I get shitposts when I point it out, but yeah, 4:3 2D Sonic was ass.

t. Mega Drive kid who couldn't get into it back then

Why is the crack taking so long? I really fucking want to play this game already.

People are talking about cracking it, but you know what'd really spite the fucks in SoE? Making a clone of the engine itself. It'll happen sooner or later.

By what logic though

It's a reference to classic japanese super hero shows, whatever they're called. Yellow and Pink are female colors.

If you want to fuck it it's a girl

I'd have figured if robots were going to have sexes the Heavies would all be male seeing as they're all Egg-Robos, and built in Robotnik's image.

...

Point taken.

I loved it. I'll probably replay it a couple times, but I doubt it will have the same lasting power as the Genesis games. Sonic 3 & Knuckles is far better (especially when you play the Sonic 3 Complete hack).

Far too many retro zones (8 retro zones compared to 5 new ones), and the retro zones' new mechanics did keep them fresh and fun, but the new zones were still far better. I'd have preferred a completely new game with maybe 1 or two retro zones tops, and the rest completely new.

Fun fact: Apparently it was Sega/Sonic Team that pushed them to have the Classic Zones in Mania, because they wanted to firmly establish it as a "classic" game with "classic" Sonic, to tie it in better with Forces.

If so, that's pathetic. I don't think any actual classic sonic game ever rehashed older game zones, other than maybe Green Hill.

My dick's logic.

This except without Amy

Sonic CD is just a texture pack for sonic 1

It's a bit better than that mechanically but it still is a remix of Sonic 1's zones.

...

I'm flattered.

Shit got cracked today, my niggas. Fire up those magnets!

does anyone else like that aesthetic?

would've bought this if it didn't have denuvo

what a shame you'll spend money on a copy you'll never own and can be taken from you at any time but having denuvo of all things is a step too far.

Pretty good but for some reason these bonus stages really fuck with my brain and confuse me, especially when I hit those star balls and start going backwards, I haven't been able to complete a single one, I just gave up playing them tbh.

What does Forces have to do with anything?

It handles like what I'd expect from a Classic game. So I'm not dissatisfied. However, after looking through a lot of the game's files, I'm amazed at all the content that's left unused. Act 3 title cards, "M" and "A" character placeholders, special stage text that says "Time to Escape", hints at a return of Hyper Sonic. Super Emerald sprites, unused content for Press Garden, Studiopolis, and Flying Battery. Leftover sprites of Scrap Brain Zone and Hidden Palace Zone too.

My gut is predicting DLC, but that might be due to the nature of the market. It's amazing what's gone unused in this game.

Like what? HPZ is in the game, it's just exclusive to Knuckles' run.
Mighty and Amy? That'd be weird.

I wouldn't mind an expansion or a complete physical version of the game at some point. Sonic Mania & Knuckles or whatever.

I guess i got lucky, but, i played through the game 3 times and never encountered a glitch at all. i still cant get all 7 chaos emeralds

Those scrap brain/hidden palace sprites are just leftovers from the mobile remakes.

I'll agree the game is fantastic and now that it's cracked it's fair game. Buying anything with Denuvo is a cardinal sin though.

For fucks sake it's not that hard
1st lap objective is to get mach 2 so you can stockpile rings on the second lap and go all out after that, avoid airtime because it slows you the fuck down unless you're jumping to take shortcuts

I never realized Robo-ky was a nigger.

Actually fag dick, that's not true, Valve's EULA is not legally enforcible to revoke the actual software.
Literally all they can do is deny patching your software/Steamworks network services.
Stop spreading this legal intimidation and letting valve get away with doing illegal shit

The ulterior is that Denuvo actually does enough damage to the software itself that it impacts performance and isn't set up for an offline contingency.

there's precedent.
escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.384228-Accpet-Steams-New-EULA-or-Say-Goodbye-To-Your-Steam-Account-UPDATED

In the United states at least, they cannot revoke the software you already purchased from them.
Even if you agree to the new EULA. It violates the DMCA

Also
Arbitration claims can be waived if found in violation of your rights to a fair trial.

Hidden Palace Zone was a scrapped level for Sonic 2, which I believe was added to the mobile port? corrected me as well, so it has a lot of content from the mobile ports left in the game as well. Looks like nothing but placeholders.

There are graphics of Amy's name in the files too, so she was scrapped early to either meet time expectations or she was too ambitious for the developers to make, if I had to guess. I see nothing on Mighty, so I'd wager the M was meant for a playable Metal Sonic.

It's because the guy in charge is as out of touch with consumers as Miyamoto. He was legitimately surprised there was any significant desire from the fans for a classic style game. He's honestly a goddamn idiot who should be taken off the franchise, but that will never happen because he has seniority and Japan still thinks working longer means being better.

You haven't beaten the game have you?

If I remember right, sega said there won't be any dlc for mania
They fucking hate taxman's guts already for doing better than they have in decades, they sure as fuck wouldn't give the game any post launch support beyond necessary bug fixes

This
They hate him so much they hired him to release a game for their most important franchise that was heavily marketed.

As evidenced by denuvo, any good decisions were made on accident and they have no feelings towards it but a desire to assert corporate control over this stroke of good fortune until it crashes and burns like everything else they do

That's why I didn't trust them not to fuck up.

I blame Mark for that bit of stupidity on their end. If they planned on adding Denuvo all along, they wouldn't have announced a delay five days before release. Considering the announcement came right after he streamed the game, it's pretty certain some corporate idiot thought the Switch version getting out early meant there was some kind of danger if the PC version didn't release with drm.

Find a working crack

They were still willing to do it, the fact that they dropped everything and delayed the launch on a moment's notice just makes that more clear
It's a sign that they don't really care what happens to it as long as they thought they were maximizing profit

I'm not arguing against that. I'm just saying we might not have gotten Denuvo if Mark wasn't an attention-seeking faggot.

Ok
That still wouldn't change sega being jews
You're arguing against positions nobody is taking

I'm not arguing at all. I never was arguing. I'm just saying Mark was a faggot and probably got us into this mess.

Well that's just a given

There was a jew involved, but Sega weren't being jews. They were being japs.

Sega of Europe are not japs

Some of their employees need to be axed then.

It's fucking disgraceful when a game professionally designed after the past and trying to be nothing more than exactly that streamlined and polished to near perfection by the sheer power and advances in design of the future blows just about literally everything the fuck out of the water just by using it to perform smoothly for modern technology, most egregiously pretentious shit obsessed with stronger engines and physics.

We have to destroy "hurr muh grafix" retarded hipster faggotry, shitty movies and those worthless shit bloggers with absolutely no credibility or argument once and for all.

...

Wasn't Mania originally supposed to be a compilation of the first three games?

they deserve promotions for reaping massive amounts of salty ass hurt and only losing 7k sales that they'll make back in no time.

I remembered when Generations was acclaimed. Or do you mean full 3D? Cause Sonic Utopia showed that Sonic can do 3D. Even then I want another 3D Sonic game with controls like Adventure, because it felt fun just running around.

The Genesis-era gameplay doesn't work in 3D, that much is true. Adventure was the ultimate expression of Genesis gameplay in 3D and the people that love that gameplay the most hated Adventure and swore off Sonic until Mania. In my opinion, they simply cannot be pleased with anything that isn't strictly 2D Sonic, consulting them on anything else is a waste of time.

Does this only work if you've already beaten the game on that file? The way I've done and experimented with it, the Secret Rings, if you win or fail the stage, won't respawn even if you restart the level.

It is as you say, he failed to get all of them in a playthrough and then simply quit to the main menu and restarted at Green Hill Zone until his file had all of the emeralds. It's what I did for the Hyper Emeralds in 3&K

Never forget.

In my mind, generations was yet another attempt at banking on nostalgia, although I will admit that the 3D sections weren't bad. I'm generally referring to Sonic's major 3D outings (Adventure 1 and 2, Heroes, Sonic 06, Sonic Boom, etc) when I say that the majority of them have been poorly received or have been met with a lukewarm reception

Yeah, because you can't go back to replay earlier levels until you complete the game. In Sonic 3 it was the same, only each large ring corresponded with a specific Blue Sphere level, which means if you want to get all the Chaos Emeralds, you have to locate every large ring in every level and beat them in order. You could argue that Mania's way of doing things is much easier and more convenient, but to me it's sort of diminishes the reward, given that I can just locate a single large ring and spam it until I win.
I'm neither a 2D or 3D evangelist, I like Sonic in a general sense, and I think there are people on both sides who don't have any idea what would make a good Sonic game. I'm not sure I would know what makes 3D Sonic good. If you asked me, I'd point to Sonic Adventure 2's Sonic and Shadow levels and say, "More of that", but there's bound to be someone out there who would complain about it.

Don't worry Mark, you aren't the only person who's bad at sonic.
don't watch this video if you're a virgin, it will leave you with many unneeded feels

I agree, even though I liked the other two-thirds of SA2's gameplay, Sonic/Shadow's levels were the best if you wanted to make a 3D Sonic game.
That's what I'm saying too.

Does anyone knows how to make mods of this game? Like where the sprite files are and such?

In Sega's eyes Mania exists solely for boosting brand image, it being better than any Sonic game they've put out in the past 20 years is a problem for them so they need to shut it down

t. Denuvo "employee"

forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=37127

source

No they didn't. You either remember wrong, or you're blatantly lying. The special ring you found didn't matter, you just cycled through the stages in order until you got all the emeralds. There's 8 of the giant rings in Marble Garden Act 1 alone, so there's no way there's only one ring that corresponds with one special stage.

Just thought it might be nice to miraculously find a waifu to play vidya with, but that's literally it.

I still don't need love. Loved her commentary. Wish I could hear more control pads and sticks because that shit is a sleep aid to me for some reason.

Yeah, you're right, I went back to play it just an hour or so ago, and I admit I was wrong. Although, I'm not sure why you think it would be worthwhile for anyone to lie about something like that, it's something that can easily be verified by practically anyone with the game or with access to a fucking search engine.

Never doubt the potential pettiness of an user. I've seen people lie about smaller shit.

3D games don't work in 2D either, just look at Rush's physics. It feels more like punching a balloon through the air than a pinball table.

>>>/asmr/
>>>/bog/

I used to autisticly focus hard on these stages and perfect-clear them as a kid, tuning out all thought but 'left, right,left'. I was pleased to find the skill hasn't degraded with time and I've been able to get right back at it. I suck at the new special stages though, chasing that fucker while collecting rings AND balls AND trying not to fall off the track in places is hard for my brain.

Go fuck off to /r9k/ you faggot.

I'm sorry but I can't understand this argument. What exactly is the reasoning within the head of this hypothetical "idiot" you're referring to? What on Earth could an early release on the Switch do to PC sales such that Denuvo would be warranted? Is Denuvo not an anti-piracy measure? Is that not its purpose? Even if people were pirating Switch games, why would that have anything to do with the game's sales performance on PC? Is there an established, strong overlap between Nintendo gamers and PC gamers? If so, how is piracy involved in this overlap?

I just don't get it.

The reasoning of someone who has no idea how video games or computers work; they just want to make money. That's what makes them an idiot. It's less the reasoning behind whoever made the decision and more the timing of it that makes me think that, though. Why else would there be an impromptu announcement, almost immediately following Mark's stream, stating that Sonic Mania, coming out in five days, would have a two week delay for the PC version, with the only reason given being "optimization"? Denuvo wasn't even mentioned on the store page until the day of the PC version's release. Considering the timing of Taxman's tweet regarding DRM, too, Denuvo was a very last minute addition, and the Switch version breaking street date along with Mark streaming the entire thing were the only things that happened in the right time frame.

Imagine you're some senile 60 year old stockholder of a company that had a game leaked and at the meeting you hear yet another senile fuck talk about how good denuvo is at stopping pirates that copy the game and steal your retirement shekels.

excuse me?

Classic Sonic in Forces has the Drop Dash from Mania, and the True Ending of Mania references the introduction pose in the Forces reveal, pics related.

i guess that explains why the true ending of mania made no sense to me

...

Its also a pose from sonic the hedgehog band thing.

Wait until you see her photos.

...

Infinite also makes the exact same sound as the Phantom Ruby and has what appears to be it embedded into his chest.

You really think a thirsty faggot like him even cares anymore?

wouldn't

t. Sega employee

is heavy king in the game as a boss? I cant remember seeing him

get all the chaos emeralds and clear the last level

The catalog is your friend. Torrent trackers are your friend. I'm sure even Neofaggot and Reddit are shitting themselves. You know where to look.

Have fun.

Play Knuckles story.

I was talking about the fact she was constantly talking shit about being bad at the game and also actually knew her stuff. It was simply amusing.

Got it, you fucking faggot?

I bet Iizuka is behind this.

Why is Iizuka such a faggot these days?

Can't believe Yuji Naka also fucked us out of SA3 for shitty Heroes. Didn't they both used to be great people?

Heroes was originally just some shitty side game
06 was supposed to be SA3

SONIC MANIA THOUGHTS

PROS:
* Each level is uniquely designed, meaning they brought back the old levels with a few new twists.
* It helps if you played S3&K AND SONIC CD before this game–bonus points if you mastered both.
* The music is very solid in this game.
* I'm glad they left out Amy Rose, since she is WORST Sonic Girl and adds nothing.
* The EXTRA LIVES are plentiful in this game–take your time to get them!
* Blue Spheres are an unique challenge–unlock extra content with it!

CONS:
* I don't like Studiopolis Zone–more like EGG TV Zone.
* What's with that Boss fight with that enemy you didn't like in S3&K (Mushroom Hill Zone)?
* Furthermore, why give that enemy a microphone and make him the weatherperson?
* Stardust Speedway–fantastic, except that Metal Sonic Boss Fight sucked!
* Why? Due to bouncing a ripoff OC Sonic enemy that hosts bunnies and flickies (RIP).
* The real Metal Sonic fight begins at the very top of Stardust Speedway.
* Metallic Madness–WHY?! I wanted to forget this zone but nope, you get the pain with a few differences.
* Have fun beating the boss while you are in mini form, complete with Amy Rose Doll!
* Mirage Saloon Zone–let's start the zone by adding death traps AFTER THE SPECIAL STAGE!
* Gun launchers don't work very well in this zone.
* Disliked Hydrocity Boss due to the painful first act in S3&K. (Why make that the final boss in this zone?!)
* Let's chase after the UFO in Sonic CD Special Stages, except make it so that if you go too fast, you fall off course and fail!
* Lava Reef Zone–the second act. Let's glide until you fall and die in the second act!
* If you fail Blue Sphere, you will get sent back, however, if you didn't perfect it, enjoy your Silver Emblem!
* I disliked the miniboss and boss themes, it didn't suit the game very well.
t. Knuckles main since S3&K with 33 lives, all 7 Chaos Emeralds, and several emblems with one being Silver while the rest are Gold.
Also, no game overs!

I can't tell if this is bait or not

Because the Japs don't like the idea of people liking those damn dirty gaijin's sonic game over THEIR masterpiece: Autism Forces: A game all about Original the Character and his two Hedgehog sidekicks.

I never realized they have defined genres until now.

Why? It makes me think Eggman is not being himself if he is bothering with thinking which is a girl or a guy. That's something useless and too simple to care.

It really doesn't, the 3D sonic games are really awkward in terms of gameplay. I'm also in the camp that loves the 2D games but hated Adventure and beyond.
Adventure 2 is a beloved game by many and I just don't get it. I've tried playing it several times and it's not just a bad Sonic game, it's a fucking terrible game. Why the fuck did anyone think those Tails levels with a high-pitch tone were a good idea? What the fuck is up with that final Sonic level where you just ride rails and suffer cheap deaths when you randomly run out of momentum and fall off? It's a clusterfuck of game design with the cringiest cutscenes I've ever seen. I just don't get where all the love for that game comes from.

Eggman has literally nothing to do with it

It's fucking fantastic,and the more of a Sanic-tard, the bigger your enjoyment will be.
If you're only a casual fan, you'll only get a surface level enjoyment. But if you're able to pick up on the subtler shoutouts it'll be a fucking 10/10.

Though the "Mania" moniker makes more sense after playing it. It's basically a remix of the entire franchise, thrown together into one singular game. I'm hopeful this leads to an original game, since the unanimous biggest complaint is the comparative lack of new content. Hell, Mirage Saloon is basically one act.

That and Titanic Monarch was kind of disappointing. Can't really put my finger on why. Maybe because After The Sequel's final level, Storm Station, was so rad and really felt like you were "storming the castle," compared to how bland Titanic Monarch felt.
Though that's also definitely another point to bring up, it doesn't directly reference ATS and Lake's games, but it really feels like they at least played them, for some reason.

Maybe it's the absolutely THICC levels of lore and shoutouts in it, that only really an autistic fan could cram into the game (Studiopolis boss's sun and rain images are from the Genesis manual's warnings about leaving it in those. The gashapon boss's mini Eggmen are the map icons of SEGA Sonic Arcade. The background foreground element could be because it was an intended mechanic in X-treme. And a slew of others.)
And Lake's games were already crammed with what I thought was a lot of lore.

Though speaking of the HUE Autist himself, if he can churn out a good 100% original level Sonic game in around a year or so, I have no doubts that if Whitehead's team were given the go ahead, we would see something that'd absolutely shit on every sonic game we've seen so far, making them seem paltry in hindsight. Here's to hoping that comes to light someday soon.

It has a Knuckles Act to go with the Airplane one, so it's technically 3 Acts

Which one are you talking about? The spinners or the catapults in Metallic Madness? The spinners were in Sonic CD originally, and I think the catapults were too but I'm not as sure about that.

Eggman didn't build Hard Boiled Heavies?

I wouldn't go that far, but it's better than 1 and 2. It could have been better if it had super emeralds and a better secret final boss. That final boss was terrible compared to Doomsday Zone.

They were Generic drones ala Sky Sanctuary until the ruby changed them.
See 0:37 and take a good look at them after the ruby warps them.

The intro scene may show what looks like those drones becoming the HBH, but if you interpret it that way it contradicts the manual. Where it says that Eggman already built them.

Re reading what I posted it seems that Eggman built them, but at the same time the Ruby changed them as well.

I could go for it if I were extremely drunk and horny. I'm a virgin who cares more about Sonic than women though.

Basically. Eggman made generic eggbots, but he made them stronger, but the ruby warped them into having an actual personality.

It also warped them into not really obeying eggman, which also contradicts that manual

Actually if you look at the 2nd pic here
It says the Ruby "loosened a few of their screws." so no that doesn't contradict the manual.

Now you've done it. Post the porn already.

But it also says they're loyal to his orders
I mean, I guess you could read that to mean they were loyal before they became the heavies

I got nearly all of the references but this is some next level shit.

The catapults are in SCD, but they're just a 3D version of the spike+seesaw object. Having foreground/background plane swapping like that would be way beyond what the system can do (it's doable on a saturn though, Bomberman uses that effect for a level transition)

...

I'd fuck cat the flats though. Still female, dunno about her personality though is she hot for words?

Her personality is as flat as her chest since she's basically Knuckles mixed with Shadow but talks even less than either of them

They get free will and personalities.

They still decide to follow Robotnik until Heavy King decides screw it and takes the Phantom Ruby when you beat the final stage

What a waste of a cute design.

Mania has already spawned a flourishing modding community, so hopefully hackers can do what Sega won't. There's already a mods for unrestricted debug modes, music swapping, and sprite swapping. Hell, Sonic 2 Heroes looks like it could be recreated in Mania pretty soon. Sonic autists carry a lot of passion with their craft, I figure we'll see custom level/character mods in less than a year.

Someone's already working on Shadow Mania, too. Wish they chose a better character, but it's fine.

Kinda sucks they have to resort to hacking though
Taxman should just accidentally leak the RSDK, I'm sure the corporate overlords wouldn't get too mad at him

Does anyone here know where the save file is stored on? Is it on Data.rsdk or on the .exe file itself to launch the game? I need to know because I want to move my save file to another computer.

Then who could Infinite be based on if he might have been changed by the Phantom Ruby, assuming he's not a manifestation of the gem itself.

But for real, there was a fan poll on a Sonic fan site a while back, Where Shadow was the 2nd most popular Sonic character only beaten by Sonic himself.
Like it or not, when it comes to fan mods Shadow is going to be the first thing added.

Judging by how fucking edgy infinite is, I'm sure it's going to be something incredibly retarded

Shadow can be cool and has potential for great movesets, but he never really looks right in 2D, especially if they try to get him in a classic style
His skating just doesn't play well with 2D running animations, it always looks off

If you bought it on Steam, it's stored under userdata in the Steam folder directory. If you pirated it, you should know the directory already.

I remember reading somewhere that Mania and Forces were suggested for Steam Workshop for easy modding, but I don't think Sega cares.

I'm not stoked about it, but I'm not disappointed. Mostly because I knew it was coming a mile away.

It's called groupthink. One normally competent person makes a stupid decision, and everyone else just falls in line and doesn't question anything.
It's what happened to Nintendo's fanbase after Iwata died.

Yeah, I pirated it. Is this the directory you're talking about?

Well Sonic team has never made a Classic Style Shadow, and probably shouldn't. I'm fine with Shadow being a 3D only character. I just hope more interesting things can be done with him down the road, instead of being forever stuck as the one note Mr Unsmiley, he's been currently.

Yes.

That would require the 3D games go back to stories involving side characters and actual nuance and character development, which I just don't see them doing

I was gonna make a theory video but I got lazy.
Infinite isn't himself, pay attention to the lyrics of his theme song. They say at one point "This is an Illusion" which goes back to the name of the final boss theme name "Ruby Illusions", OK now go to the normal robotnik boss theme named "Ruby Delusions", which ties into this first picture very well. The word "Mania" is also an episode, or excitement close to symptoms of psychosis, and do you hear the laughs eggman has had in those boss themes? Yes, this includes the mean bean boss. Feeling like a therapist diagnosing an edgy kid yet?

Along with "I am a dangerous weapon, I am the roughest of waves, I am the tallest of mountains ", everyone already knows the shadow, chaos and zavok enemies are fake projections made by infinite, the MASTER illusion. Who has accompanied those characters again? You know who.

Pay attention to the final boss now, the theme is a remix of Fist Bump, and the final stage is called "Egg Reverie", Reverie which is a fancy word for "State of thoughts", now bundle that in with the INTRO cutscene, when the Phantom Ruby is extracted from angel island, and the energy release altered the look of the once generic hard boiled heavies into having their own unique personality. So, what does this mean?

This means classic Robotnik HIMSELF might be infinite after receiving the biggest blast the infinite ruby has done yet. Remember, it DID warp classic sonic to another dimension after all.
All I know is that Infinite isn't real. He may be eggmans FEELINGS and emotions manifested into a single creature that can only be beaten by Hyper sonic and the whisps. Expect some weird feels from this. It might be the first time the game makes you feel genuinely bad for Eggman.
I'll add more when I think of it.

tl;dr Infinite might be eggmans FEEFEES come to life.
Also, I have another theory but this one goes batshit crazy, what if the Forces universe was the biggest illusion yet and Modern sonic doesn't really exist.
Seriously, imagine if in the end everything and everyone BUT classic sonic starts fading, Modern Fist Bumps sonic and says goodbyes, fades away, then SEGA announces a few months later that they're retiring the modern sonic franchise and focusing on classic, handing over the torch to taxman, co and other new devs.

That would be some shit, and depending on the execution of that ending, I may cry.
Another theory I had is what if all the events after angel island are illusions as well, and the reverse happens and they break the ruby, then classic just goes home and the status quo remains.

That would be a shit thing to do. A worse thing to do is have classic sonic and his world BE the illusion, I would drop Sonic entirely if that happened. Izuka might do it, who knows.

Yeah that sounds super gay and dumb
You could be right

Posting best song.

I'm not the one making it this way, I'm just picking up the pieces of shit and sticking them together into whatever makes the most sense and carry the most substance. I'm not a fan of their route, and forces is a glorified racetrack game by the look of the level engine demonstrations, along with the UI looking like shit.

If I was head Honcho of Sonic Team, you better believe I'd go full autist and give both lorefags and people who want a decent 3D sonic game everything they want.

Too bad fucks like Izuma are dead weight who only make filler than only conformist and the most fargone of fanboys would praise. Then again, that's a bit of a template as well, since you could replace Izuka with 95% of other people in similar situations of Franchises that suck now and see how narcissism and nepotism is trumping skill and actual passion. I'm glad mania at least exists, but they can do so much more than that.

I'm probably retarded but the True Ending has Sonic and the Ruby warp and Sonic isn't present to watch the Little Planet explode. I'm thinking Infinite is the Classic Sonic of Mania being altered by fusing with the Ruby somehow.

HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE

user, classic sonic is literally a playable character in forces, he's not altered at all

You're looking to deep into things.

I'm aware, I don't know why Infinite is shaped like a hedgehog, or why he has the Ruby lodged in his chest.

That sounds like something that would happen, but (un)fortunately, classic Sonic already appears in Sandy Green Hill Zone and fights the egg dragoon, he even appears in the first trailer my guy. His ending pose in mania is shown to be the exact same one in Forces where he is introduced.
Unless you mean that Infinite is a COPY of classic sonic, then I could see something that crazy happening.

I really hope Forces has more Masonic Imagery, and makes a reference to oroboros and Saturn somewhere in the game. That would be pretty great and make Infinite even MORE cryptic, and add to My Eggman is Jewish theory.

Going way deep is what I live for, user.

Infinite looks more like a fox or a bat going by the mask
His hair is crazy but doesn't really look like hedgehog spines, and I can't make heads or tails of what his fucking tree trunk tail is supposed to be but it's clearly not hedgehog

Eggman has been obsessing over sonic so long, you could say he's had a 'Mania' for Sonic
Manic = Sanic = Sonic, he's Manic for Sonic
What is 'Manic Disorder'? Well, here it is.
Grandiose DELUSIONS
Eggman is a crazy fucker. Since taxman couldn't give eggman depression, he went with the next best thing; Insanity.

So fucking cheeky. Hurr durr, we are above your building of laws, how's it feel peasant hurr durr.

It really is fucking stupid, they think they're being clever but they could not be any more obvious, maybe it's on purpose, maybe this game is one big "red" pill, as shown by the color of the first OC.
That's far fetched though, they're just being pretentious methinks.

Wait, my bad. I thought you were talking about the game. You're talking about Israel.
Yeah. I see that.
"New Order of the Ages" or "New World Order" A.K.A "The Resistance" it's obvious what Forces is trying to do with it. This why I'm sticking around, sonic out of all things might unleash an entire generation of players to sneaky hidden things. I don't count on it, but hey, you never know.

It's basically a coin flip on whether they go for that or the exact opposite of that
The game's communist artistic theme isn't an accident
You play as freedom fighters going up against extreme corrupt authority, so there's only two ways that could possibly go

Sonic being a commie would be the final nail in the coffin for him, because it would be everything he's stood against. He'd only be Sonic in name. Sonic has always been about near completely freedom and individuality, so if he's about anything else in this incarnation, it would only add to the dumpster fire that was Denuvo in Mania. Unless they make Sonic some sort of anarchist (what shadow already is), but that would still be unfitting for sonic, and why would eggman be right wing? When everything is roboticized, then everything is EQUAL, ringing any bells?

Not to mention how mismatched the themes would be, why would an occult symbol (Infinite / One Eye) be against communism and hidden cults and such? Izuka and the designers/writers would be extremely ignorant (or purposely subversive) to do something that grating. Hoping for the best, then again "Join the Resistance" isn't doing me any favors, since that's almost always used by left leaning revolutionaries.
The best I can think of is left leaning authoritarian Vs. left leaning libertarian.

Politics are a spectrum, so I'm just going to go with that, things aren't all black and white after all, and I'll wait until more trailers and footage shows up before I make the final judgement. Help

Doesn't Shadow work for the government in like half the games he appears in

That was only once in Heroes. Shadow the hedgehog is optional and I'm unsure how canon that is to Forces, '06 is reaching, but he did work for the gov iirc.
I know SA2 is definitely connected and is the only one confirmed so far, which is where shadow started as anarchist.
I forget what his role is in Chronicles.

Shadow is independent in Heroes, may work with G.U.N. in Shadow the Hedgehog, and in 06 he absolutely works for G.U.N.

Shadow didn't work for G.U.N. in Heroes, but he did work with Rouge, who works for G.U.N. In Shadow, while I don't think he ever directly works for G.U.N., some missions has him help them out indirectly (assisting Rouge with her missions, etc). Expert mode of Shadow, though, implies that, after the game's main story, he starts going into training, possibly for G.U.N. '06 has him explicitly working for G.U.N. G.U.N. seems to have been dropped in every game afterward, though.

I wonder if G.U.N is even a thing in The Sonic Unleashed timeline, I say Unleashed timeline because Colors happens directly after it. Remember the distant egg terminal transporer in BOTH ending scenes backgrounds (Unleashed AND Colors), then Lost World happens. I'm unsure if generations is canon even, since it takes place between timelines/dimensions. Other anons said it wasn't, but I really don't know.

It's been a fucking decade since the new timeline started
Graphics are barely different
It only feels sort of short because of Colors having the new VA

Thanks.

How the fuck are people praising this shit?

Is this bait? I have a hard time imagining someone with this bad of taste.

Well I dunno what taste do I need.
I think Sonic 2 is a pinnacle of sonic games overall while 3&K is overall the best 2D platformer of all times, even if it is less sonic-y than 2.
Now mania is just shit with terrible level design, shit music and so much "look we're classic sanic guise wink wink xddd" everywhere it's just painful.

Is this supposed to be similar to old sonic games? Because it's not.

Sonic 2 is the worst sonic though, it felt like a Beta to S3 rather than its own thing.
I do agree about this not feeling as "Sonic", I blame Tee Lopes for not nailing the feel Brad Buxer gave the final game, or Nakamura gave S1&S2, his remixes were kind of weak now that my hype has died down, which affects the presentation of a level.

Jun Senuoe and the many other musicians gave Sonic 3&K that special feeling which made it feel unique, and the classis revels could have even a bit reharmonized to throw people are curve ball. They really should have put the Lake Feperd music team on it instead. Fucking taxman with shit music taste.

This is what I mean by "Reharmonization", by the way.
m.soundcloud.com/wch090-james-2/death-egg-reharmonization
Not a complete revamp to where you can't even hear the original composition, but just add enough "Unf" to it that it will extend it for about an extra minute or so.
Think about the Album versions of the Sonic CD tracks, and how they've been extended with extra intros/outros, but further than that.

The video should have a good enough example, to both reflect to the music on how much the stage had changed, since Tee's compositions just feel like they're trying to ape off the originals. I just don't like tee in general, the only reason they're somewhat salvageable (even as fan remixes mind you) is because of Falk. I've heard Tees standalone compositions and they're just not great, or as great as other people can make them, so it's not a wonder he needed help from someone with a golden ear to mix his tracks.

That "Reharmonization" didn't sound anything like the original song
That's exactly what it sounds like.
I agree some of the old stages have boring "remixed" music(Hydrocity act 2, is it even any different?) but there's some I like, though it's mostly just Stardust Speedway Act 2, Metallic Madness, Oil Ocean Act 2, and Killer Clone.

That sounds nothing like the Death Egg theme, though.

Fuck. Is it called "Killer Clone"? It was supposed be called Killer Copy
There's always a next time.

It has a similar moutif around 0:19,
Though, I admit. You have to pay close attention because the complete overhaul of instruments does make it sound like an entirely DIFFERENT piece of music, which wouldn't make you think about comparing them due to that same reason, the change in almost everything is too stark.
That is why I'll bring a better example to you.

soundcloud.com/plrusek-chan/midergo-stage-5
Rather, use the same (or similar) instruments to compose an entirely different song, so it doesn't become too vague with its execution due to samples being something wildly different.

But you don't fall off the rails due to momentum. And you shouldn't run out of momentum unless you're openly trying to, like trying to go up an incline and you don't know how to build up speed first.

Basically, you clearly were playing like a retard.

Little Planet doesn't explode, it disappears for a year and then comes back. The Future that you visit in Sonic CD is only one year in the future, as seen in Sonic 4, where Metal Sonic is revived from Metallic Madness' Bad Future, and comes back to earth in Sonic 4's present without any time travel.

Maybe they're so retarded that they're ripping off the comics now and having a Metal Sonic with an emerald/ruby in his chest. Use Mecha Sonic from 3&K, since he's the only one who hasn't appeared since his original game, and acted independently of Eggman even in his original game.

Sonic is apolitical and amoral. "It doesn't matter who is wrong and who is right."

And as has been mentioned, Shadow works for the world military government that is GUN. He is in no way an anarchist.

Unleashed changed the gameplay formula but there is nothing indicating that it is a "new timeline." Like compared to most of the events of '06, yeah, but considering '06 is the only one in its own timeline, it's more like most of '06 is the alternate timeline, not Unleashed and later games, which are very much the same timeline as Shadow the Hedgehog, even if they don't reference the earlier games much.

Basically, Infinite could very well be Eggman's own OC? It would fit in with his overall vibe and appearance as well as serving to contrast (and highlight) the fanbase's penchant for fan characters like with the infamous Ashura, Nazo, Coldsteel, etc. There's also a bit where it looks like the player's OC tries to do fistbump with Infinite only for him to withdraw. Another person said that when it comes to Sonic rebooting, Forces would be the perfect game to do so.

There's Eggman's VA making this joke:

archive.is/yryK6

Sonic Forces will be the direct sequel to Sonic Mania.

Yes, along with the 4 new zones.

Fair enough, he's more about Justice than anything. If he sees corruption on either side, he'll go against it. Only time that has happened though was with the G.U.N mixup in SA2. They've played it safe for about a decade, and they sonic we have now doesn't have many strong beliefs other than "Stop Eggman".
Which doesn't happen in this timeline, or has not been confirmed. Only the events of SA2 thus far have been implemented, even then, there are some inconsistencies with the moon and all, not to mention the sudden and complete absence of G.U.N and such. I'm still going with it being a different timeline with altered events.

None of this is confirmed from either of our sides, which is something more subjective and will cause bickering between us, without the director/writers themselves to confirm this, so it would be best if we don't go this route due to our only support being speculation.
I personally just went with what made the most sense. Unleashed was a soft reboot of the franchise, and I personally see all games that use the hedgehog engine in part of the same canon, because it's the least convoluted timeline I've personally seen. If that's wrong, then so be it, but as of right now we have no way of oficially knowing.
Apparently generations doesn't count due an interview.

If Forces truly IS another reboot, then everything I've speculated above is void.
Which would make sonic have almost a dozen different canons by now. Wow.
The VA joke makes me question it. I'm sure it was a harmless joke, but sometimes staff is subtle about their upcoming work.
I don't even know anymore.

Naw. He just does whatever the fuck he wants. GUN is fucked and Eggman is perhaps the lesser of two evils, but Sonic doesn't even try to challenge his points. Sonic just doesn't care. "It doesn't matter." Pic related.

Considering he was working for GUN when '06 started, the fact that it's a very logical progression from Shadow the Hedgehog, and he didn't just start working for them during the game, makes me think it still holds true, even though '06 erased itself. But yeah, it's not really confirmed.

I don't see how it makes any sense to just randomly say random things from the past aren't canon anymore because… reasons.

Just because they decided to take a new tone and not focus as much on continuity doesn't mean random old shit isn't canon anymore. There is no reason to think it's an alternate timeline at all.

Half true, sonic dislikes eggman but didn't have a choice during the biolizard segment. He had somewhat of a personality change between SA1 and SA2.
In SA1 he really is careless and edgy like a teen, but in SA2 he's a bit more wary and takes things with a bit more weight, especially with the mood the boss battles gave. I'd say he's grown up quite a bit since then, and now it matters just a little bit more, he's still retained that cockiness though.
Anyways, I'm more meaning to talk about Forces now, than SA.
Unfortunately, my favorite shadow was the gov agent one, I fucking LOVE the character development he had.
He manned up and worked for G.U.N even though they had the same higher ups order operatives to kill Maria. It takes some strength to be able to overcome that AND work for an entity who killed the person you loved. Fuck man, that's the autism I like most. Too bad that's lost now.

They don't, let me repeat myself, they DON'T know how to make a cohesive writing/plot system. Which is why every sonic game after heroes takes fucking hurdles to try into a timeline that makes some sense. I'm ready to admit that they just grab a handful of random shit and say

"This is canon, and this is canon, oh this doesn't make sense. MAKE IT CANON ANYWAYS", it's getting to a point that it's looking a bit like kingdom hearts, which isn't a good thing at all. It feels like a lazy uninspired mishmash with some fucker trying to make it as exciting ad possible. I'd really like to know what Izuka is planning on doing with Sonic in the future, because as of right now it seems he's his an artists block.

It doesn't mean the opposite either. As I said, nothing is confirmed or they cannot for the life of them write something that flows smoothly so we are both at a loss and have to basically make our own headcanons.
It's pissing me off because nobody really knows what's happening and we're expected to put the pieces ourselves then they take a sharp turn and what we thought was "It", isn't "it" at all.
It's nothing but plastered events made to try to unite every sonic fag who favors a certain timeline but it ends up so freakishly fucked that it ends up looking like a half baked shameless attempt at pandering.
I'm not saying they have to be explicit with references and the past, but when you leave out and alter so much information that you're basically rebuilding what happened in the past then you've fucked up.

Hell, maybe there IS no alternate timeline and shit from the past just got erased and misshapen for STORY REASONS™. So events from SA2/SA1/LW/etc would be told different in-game for the sake of making something that makes some kind of sense with the current narrative in exchange for tainting what actually happened in the other games we played. FUCK!

Wasn't that pic also proven to be one guy samefagging and ID hopping? Iirc it was all (1)'s. If the 8archive wasn't broken I'd go check it out. I was there.

Fucking kill me I've spent more time analyzing a blue hedgehog than I've been doing my work

New Sonic Boon ep btw

the Titanic Monarch is very very similar to the Death Egg Robots in Force.

Well yeah, because '06 was the last game that gave a shit about story. People shit on that game but the story had cool shit, especially when it came to Shadow.

But it's only the games after '06, not the ones after Heroes, that stop caring about plot. Shadow and '06 are very obvious with how they're related to the other games. They take place after and continue the plot. Simple.

There's no "system." The games all take place in release order except for a few rare exceptions, those being explicit prequels/midquels (Tails Adventure/Sonic 4), things based on the cartoons (Spinball/Mean Bean Machine/Boom), and a couple that simply don't fit in release order for story reasons so just shift them over a little bit (Battle/Advance 3 take place after Shadow despite being released first).

But it's very simple. There are very few actual plotholes, especially considering how long running the series is. They're all simple things that are basically contained to a single game (like Fighters having 8 emeralds) and they can mostly be explained away easily or simply ignored (the 8th emerald is the Master Emerald). Everything else is just release order. These games mostly don't have huge stories in their individual entries. The stories only really become interesting when you look at the series as a whole.

Just because you have entries that don't directly continue on from plot points introduced in the previous ones doesn't mean that it's just random reboots whenever you feel like it. Maybe Sonic 2 is a different universe than Sonic 1. They are probably less related than any of the new games.

You keep saying "certain timeline" but there's no indication that there are timelines at all. The idea has been made up out of whole cloth, with nothing to actually imply it in the games.

But nothing got erased. There's no indication of that. Just because the newer games have chosen to focus less on story doesn't mean that old shit didn't happen.

By this logic, series that normally have standalone episodes are a new timeline every episode. Or a series that shifts from a more serialized structure to some sort of conflict of the week structure reboot when that happens. No, that's dumb. There is nothing to indicate that.

It wasn't. You won't believe me, but I was the one who wrote the actual lore. I wasn't the one replying or the one who screenshotted it.

They just gave a cameo to the red wolf OC from forces, except he's fat.
"Can it Wolfie"

Oh shit I just found this cancer by accident,
lol

who?

i only just got around to playing it and i disagree.
the level design was less clever and the deaths largely didn't make sense (in my case anyway) since the hitboxes didn't match the animations.
it's still much better than anything that's come out in the mainline sonic series since sega cd.
it's a shame it has denuvo so i'll never actually buy it and will just be content with my pirated copy.

unless the diolog is an obvious reference I think that might just be a couincadince

The player character in Sonic forces, a red wolf is what their using in marketing, though he's a turquoise color on the box art for no real reason.

I was going to correct that but I hit reply by mistake.

It did, it could have been the ultimate sonic game if they didn't fuck it up.
Yeah, I missed that detail. They're pretty connected.

I have to ask, is the "True Ending" from shadow the canon ending? I mean, it's obvious that it will be but I just need to be reassured.

That's exactly what I'm doing, and it bothers the hell out of me. When you say "Explained right away", you mean by people who aren't working on the game and assumptions that we as the consumers make. So that's where the whole headcanon thing comes in, it's a dissonant feeling which is why I can't help to categorize them myself. As I keep saying, my way of doing it isn't what they're actually doing, but it's the best way FOR ME to wrap it up without making it into something that just happens but doesn't build up or add to it. I can't accept an anomaly.

Partially true, but it doesn't have to be a reboot either, think about parallel worlds. One thing happens here, and another happens there, they're almost similar but then something NEW happens exclusively in one and they both branch onto different pathways. It's the best way to explain inconsistencies that won't be fixed in my opinion.

You might be onto something here, but with Mania showing Oil Ocean and Chemical plant I'd say that's not it, UNLESS I bring in my parallel universe theory and bundle it with yours.
So, there are two Sonic 2's, one exists and ends in S3&K and Classic Meets Modern, but the other continues onto Mania. One would be Mania and the Other Generations.
This is all hypothetical, so nothing is confirmed as I keep saying, but the plot holes are enough to make an interesting theory. It's hard for me to ignore the plotholes, personally, so I try to patch up as much as I can, no offense to you, really!

That is true, and this applies to the both of us. Which is why I don't try stating my way of organization as fact, but rather speculation as I keep repeating. I'm waiting on what forces does storywise to see where they're going with this.

Where is G.U.N? Where are the Armies going after Eggman? What happened to the Chaos Shrine? Why isn't knuckles looking after it? Shouldn't Sonic be in contact with the president in forces after SA2? Where the HELL are the humans? Seriously, they haven't appeared since unleashed! Where is the shattered moon in unleashed as well? Why didn't G.U.N attack him there too?
Wouldn't the earth splitting cause the military to investigate with Dr. Pickle? Has nobody noticed eggmans FUCKING SPACE THEMEPARK?
This shit gets me to me man. You may not care as much about these details but I do.
This why I keep thinking it got rebooted.
Hell what you said with Sonic 2 I'll say with SA, maybe they're both different canons and the result that SA2 gets is different in the forces canon due to these differences. There may have been no such thing as G.U.N there!

That is true, and I agree, but as I mentioned with the plotholes earlier, I do my best to patch them up personally, so I'm thinking to myself; parallels, until further official notice.

That doesn't correlate with what I said, this would be best suited to saying "By this logic, games that normally have standalone levels are a new timeline every level"
Shows are different from vidya, I disagree with the comparison you made. I do not think that at all.

This is a false equivalence. Since games cannot be episodes in the same way that TV can, once again, you should compare something like "Batman: The Brave and the Bold" with "Batman: The Television Series".
It's still batman, and it has a similar narrative, and it follows some of the same events and elements that MAKE it batman, but they're obviously branching off different paths and exploring their own potential.

See, this is what I mean. There is nothing in it for us but bickering about things that are still pending and unconfirmed. I'm just gonna drop it now because we have very little to nothing to gain from this, this isn't even an argument, this is more of an overanalysis that doesn't reflect on the minds of the people now in charge. We're both technically wrong, and no amount of knuckledragging is going to change it as of today.
The exact same people from SA2 don't work on forces, save a few members for example, so they might want to tweak something to make it fit the newer game, but we need more info to truly know since certain things don't hold up exactly as the last games left them as, so they might have started fresh from a certain point.

As of now, I'm calling this a draw and we should get back to it when the game releases. Since this classic sonic is from "Another Dimension", even though that exact same sonic had been in generations, so we have, we NEED to see how Modern Sonic treats him when he sees him, and if he sees him as a new person rather than an old friend then it heavily implies this is a whole new canon. As I state, we just gotta wait.
There is a lot of info to fill.
Please understand

Did you play the game? The Last Story takes place after the timeframe of the other stories. You're basically supposed to figure the regular stories give you a basic, vague idea of the main events of the game, then the Last Story happens after. Obviously the endings where Shadow shoots Sonic or Eggman in the face don't happen, but all the stuff like flashbacks to 50 years ago would be canon regardless, and that's where the majority of the important plot points are, so whatever.

Yeah, but when i say that, it's in very specific instances. Like the eight emeralds, or the moon being half blown up in SA2 but being seen very prominently in the very first shot of the opening cutscene of Shadow the Hedgehog. But are you gonna tell me Shadow and SA2 are different timelines? No, it's a direct sequel. That would be fucking retarded. Sometimes inconsistencies happen. But these ones aren't big deal. Sonic is mostly very consistent, considering how long it is.

So you think Shadow takes place in a different world than SA2, where stuff that's extremely similar to SA2 happens, except the moon isn't blown up? No, that's fucking dumb. Especially if we're talking about the new games, they don't focus on story enough to ruin anything. There is no reason to think Unleashed is a different timeline than all the previous games.

But Generations has Classic Sonic grabbed from the timeline after Green Hill Zone.

If you wanna get autistic over it, and we're assuming that Classic Sonic is from an alternate timeline at all, I argue the only way this comes close to making sense is to say that Modern Sonic's timeline is still simple and just includes every game mostly in release order. Generations happens, Classic Sonic is grabbed from Green Hill Zone and then returned to his own time at the end. This Classic Sonic then does everything like normal until the very end of the "classic" games (so right before Pocket Adventure/Adventure), and then he experiences Mania, which Modern Sonic seemingly never experienced, and of course Mania results in Classic Sonic being sent to play his part in Forces.

So basically the only place to logically talk about timelines is to talk about Classic Sonic from Generations as truly being his own character, who does some things that Modern Sonic never experienced (since Modern Sonic doesn't seem to remember Generations from Classic Sonic's POV). But are we to say "Classic Sonic" didn't actually experience a bunch of the "classic Sonic" games? No, that would be retarded, especially since Mania references some of the most obscure of those games.

So this leads to the conclusion that the closest we get to significant timelines in Sonic is that Classic Sonic experienced the Classic Sonic events in Generations, then experienced Mania, and then experienced the Classic Sonic events in Heroes. Modern Sonic would have exactly the same history except not experiencing those things, and of course he's from the future so he also experienced all the games that happened since Pocket Adventure/Adventure, which Classic Sonic hasn't experienced yet. Or maybe he won't experience them at all. Maybe Sega will actually play on him being a different timeline and say his timeline suddenly changes significantly. But I doubt it. If it was gonna change significantly, it would have after Generations, but it didn't. All signs point to the idea that although the timeline technically changed after Generations, it was extremely similar until Mania. Sega probably doesn't think about it at all and we're being more autistic than they will ever be, anyway.

Same as in all the other games where GUN doesn't appear. They don't have to always appear. They didn't appear in Sonic 1. Hell, they didn't appear in Sonic Adventure 1. You're gonna tell me Adventure 2 isn't the same "timeline" as Adventure 1?

Shouldn't he be looking after it in Heroes? But go ahead and tell me Heroes is a different universe than Adventure and Adventure 2 and 3&K. Is Chaotix a different universe than 3&K? And every other game where Knuckles is playable? They very rarely take place on Angel Island and only Adventure 1 and 2 give excuses for him not watching the emerald.

Shouldn't he have been in contact with him in Shadow? But he's not. Because Sonic is a chaotic neutral nomad who can never stop adventuring, and he's too fast for the government to catch him, especially since Adventure 2 taught them to fucking trust him.

Same place they are in all the older games. Go ahead and tell me that Adventure isn't the same universe as them. I'd love to get autistic again about how the Chaos plot is built up since the very earliest games.

Same place as in the opening cutscene of Shadow the Hedgehog. But I'm sure Shadow is a different universe than SA2 despite basing its entire plot on building on the plot of SA2.

He already blew up the earth. They clearly have some shit to deal with.

Space belongs to nobody. Eggman did nothing illegal. If they couldn't stop the Death Egg or Death Egg II they can't stop this.

I care very much about it. You think you're being too autistic, but you're simply not being autistic enough.

No, it's more like pretending The New Batman Adventures is a different universe than Batman: The Animated Series because it has a new artstyle, and it doesn't make that many callbacks (because neither show makes many callbacks).

Russel's Teapot. You're just making up crazy stuff for no reason. Maybe every game is a new timeline, but there's absolutely nothing to indicate that. There's no reason to act like it does.

You know he will reference Generations. Forces is obviously made because of Generations. Even if it makes no sense they'll reference Generations.

The whole Shadow game is a mess, The True ending has to be the Canon ending since every other ending can't lead into the rest of the series. in at least 2 of them Eggman dies, Some of them Sonic could die, one of them Shadow possible kills himself.
Only the True ending definitely has the black arms defeated.

What's interesting about The Shadow game is when you get all A ranks you unlock expert mode and I think parts of the messages you get are actually canon to an extent, Embed related
I interpret Expert mode as Shadow training himself for 1 year before joining Gun.

There is even a part where The GUN Commander wants to patch things up with Shadow after everything that happened.
1:22:40 in the embed,
When he mentions having Shadow come over to meat his Grand Daughter that could actually be when Shadow is given the offer to join GUN from the Commander himself.

As for this whole is Modern Sonic a different timeline to Adventure Sonic thing well IMO it may as well be since there is such difference in tone and writing. I think soft reboot is the word to use.
how Forces story ends up will show for sure if anything from adventure is still there, I mean aside from Boom Shadow who is a shallow interpretation of the character, Shadow can't properly exist without the events of Adventure 2 and The Shadow game. so as long as Shadow is around I think Adventure 2 has to be in the canon.

God, fuck off or just post the PORN already. Christ.

No u

archive.is/pwzJI

The thing with the moon being blown in half despite looking whole (and other trivial things) are explained here

Some of these questions were vague and disappointing, but this one stood out to me.

Iizuka: "The world that Sonic lives in and the world the humans live in are separate worlds. But, some of the canon games do have Sonic and humans together, and part of that is based on what world is being portrayed when the game is developed. There are kind of different worlds that do exist and sometimes there's some crossover."

So I was right after all, certain games do take place in different canons, so the Forces canon might even be different from the unleashed canon, which brings things a little to what I've said, and in an ironic twist, the other spergs purposefully extreme examples made to mock me were actually right. Holy shit.
The moon question was ambiguous as hell though, but it would seem that Shadow is connected to SA2 ONLY if the "Pretty" side of the moon is showing, ergo, it is indeed blown up from one side. Why it wouldn't affect tides is beyond me, honestly a lot of these answers are pretty shit, but they ARE official so there's no rebuttal to them.
Thanks a bundle user! This clears a lot of things up indefinitely regardless of dissapontment and it doesn't take a body of filler to try to figure these things out.
Quality > Quantity

yeah, stage 5 keeps fucking me up, no matter what I do, I either run out of rings due to landing on a bomb (even if you immediately pick up more, it's still game over) or falling out of bounds due to not being able to jump over certain objects.

The True Ending takes place after the other ones. Of course not all of the other ones can lead into it, so it takes place after some sort of amalgam of all the routes you can take through the game. But it's not just another ending like the rest that is simply considered more canon, it's an addition to them.

Things creators say but don't actually commit to putting in their works is dubious at best. Lots of ideas change before being published. This goes triple in something like a game, where the guy in question isn't actually writing the story, and the story isn't the real focus.

The amount of things George Lucas has said about Star Wars that obviously contradict the movies, or the things Akira Toriyama has said about Dragon Ball, are other examples of creators contradicting what is actually in the works, because 1) They don't care about autistic details 2) they forgot 3) a lot of times we're talking about things from decades ago anyway, because these are very long running series

Sonic 06 took place in Yuktobania

It's a good sonic game but sonic games are simply okay so it only aspires to be okay. It succeeded. It's okay.

Yes, but (un)fortunately what they say still applies, paying attention to details and sense be damned.

If what they say still applies then Super Saiyan 2 never existed. But oh wait, it did.

Creators have lots of ideas that change before they get published. They also have a lot of ideas they forget after publishing them.

Did you know Wolverine was originally supposed to be an actual Wolverine who got mutated into a humanoid form by Thor villain The High Evolutionary? The creator has talked about it many times, and it's even hinted at in Wolverine's earliest appearances in X-Men. But it never actually got published, so it's not canon. Only what's published is canon.

Stop being mad that he's in control and you're not. Just accept certain things you (and I) have listed just aren't part of it.
You're blowing off your cool for something you can't change. It's futile.

If he remembers then he remembers, if he doesn't then tough shit. You have to find a way to deal with it.
His words are final. Yours aren't.

You're missing my point. Until the creators of a work actually commit to an idea and publish it, it's not canon. Words are not final, the published product is. Otherwise, the actual works that are published are not canon, and what is canon is some sort of nebulous half-formed vague set of ideas in somebody's head that are constantly changing.

Have you ever created art yourself? Drawn a picture? Written a story? Even written an essay for school or something? Your ideas change before you commit them to paper. And after that, you're likely to forget what you wrote. Have you ever been working on something, then stopped for a while, and when you come back to it you had to re-read what you wrote because you forgot? Because what's in your head is only half formed, and writing your ideas out and actually finalizing them is how one irons everything out and finalizes it.

By your definitions, the script of, say, Henry V, isn't actually what is written in the scripts. The actual story of Henry V is however Shakespeare remembered it in his head when his buddy asked him some questions about it decades later. And yes, I know it's absurd to compare Sonic the Hedgehog to Shakespeare, but I'm just saiyan. In every other case, the actual published material is what is canon, not how the author remembers the published material.

I think you made a mistake with your youtube link, here you go user.

I feel in love with the game when the Chemical Plant Robotnik boss has you fighting him in a round of mean bean machine.

Nigga this was cracked in a week
People are angry because Denuvo is literally the worst cancer to put in your game period but the game is fantastic

What are your zone rankings, Holla Forums?

It is canon actually, you don't make the rules, but I see you desperately trying to make it that way for your own benefit. If Izuka says sonic is a homosexual then that would be his official sexuality, even without a SINGLE. TRACE. of it being in the canon OR published. See; Dumbledore
Screech harder biiiiiiiitch. SCREECH. SCREECH!!! SCREECH SCREECH, FUCKING. SCREECH. FOR. ME. SHIT. MONKEY.
YOU HAVE NO POWER NIGGER
YOU AIN'T GOOOOOT SHIIIIIEEEEET
YOU AIN'T NUTHIN
YOUR THEORIES ARE MATPAT TIER
A FORGETABBLE CHINK IS ON TOP OF THE CORPORATE CHAIN MAKING THE RULES AND BASICALLY, YOU'RE FUCKING STUMPED.
HIS WORDS SHOOT THROUGH YOU LIKE A HOT KNIFE THROUGH BUTTER
SUUUUCK A FLOPPY DOG DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK
AAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
C U C K E D
DELICIOUS NERD TEARS!!!!!!

You have fucking god tier tastes, user.

AAAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!
HAH. HA. HAH.
No, but seriously. Stop trying to justify nonexistent rules. He said it, and it's not changing unless he states otherwise, half baked ideas exist and this is not one of them. He actually voiced and answered things, cementing them.

I should be the one asking that question to you. Why the fuck did you dislike Flying Battery, the coolest flying zone with tons of varied neat gimmicks to play and great alarming music that fits pretty well with the zone itself? Green Hill definitely deserves this place more than Flying Battery.

It has terrible level design.
All of the S3&K zones are worse than the original but Mania's FBZ pisses me off.

FUCK TITANIC MONARCH
I HATE IT
I HATE THOSE FUCKING ORBS

Wow. This really would have been right at home on the 3DS. Damn shame Renegade Kid went defunct before being able to port Mania.

Until Rowling actually mentions Dumbledore being gay in an actual work, or at least someone else does in a licensed work, then he isn't 100% gay. But at least that's something that could be the case in the regular story and would be a matter of interpretation. It's very different from a case where some guy gets asked about a part of a long running series that he currently works on as part of a large team effort, and is not even a particularly important part of said series, and then says some shit that blatantly contradicts what is in the actual products that he helps to create.

It's not about power, it's just about not being a retard. This only happens because you are a pleb that clearly never indulges in other media where these issues are much more common. Do you understand the amount of absurd things Stan Lee has said about various Marvel heroes over the years, that contradict not just works made by creators who replaced him, but issues and stories that he wrote himself? Or the amount of things later writers have said that contradicted earlier things in the same series because they just forgot, or simply didn't care? Happens all the time. But it's the actual published material that matters, not some nebulous amalgam of thoughts that are never actually committed to print, but rather pieced together by on the spot answers on half remembered subjects in interviews that aren't actually the person's job to do.

What is actually published may in fact be shit, but it's what's canon. I doubt Stan Lee knows that Iron Man has been replaced with a racist black 12 year old girl named Ri Ri. If you were to ask him who Iron Man is, he'd say Tony Stark. But guess what? Flip open the latest issue, or the one coming out next month. In both of them, Tony Stark isn't Iron Man. By the same token, if you asked the retard writing Iron Man now about stuff that happened in the series back when Lee was still writing it, or even just any previous writer for the last 50 years, he wouldn't know shit, but those stories are still very much canon.

Anyone know when is the console version getting a Patch (minor bug fixes and a dedicated super sonic button). I remember people talking about Christian Whitehead mentioning an incoming patch weeks ago. But now there is radio silence. Also do you ever think Sega will get rid of denuvo now that the PC version has been Cracked?

Probably my favorite classic sonic game despite most of it being a remix of old ideas. Now I want to see a Sonic 1-2-3 ported to PC. Widescreen and 60fps makes a huge difference.

Metallic Madness Act 2 is fresh as fuck.

Try not being a pleb. Sonic is meant to be played with one button.

>mfw silver sonic in the metal sonic fight
That was legitimately surprising. I assumed he was forgotten like Quint from Megaman.

...

My favorite thing to jump on in the whole game. What don't you like?

What would be better is if some of the other moves done by double tapping involved holding a button on the d-pad while double tapping.

How is that a reference to Sonic 2 on Game Gear? I believe you, but I'm missing it.

No. Fuck off already. You've lost. Your psuedo intellect speak isn't going to bring your own shit closer as canon. If YOU took over then you could say otherwise. Iron man is a nigger because the people on charge chose him to become one. Tony Stark is canon in his own little bubble, but not in the current situation.

The person in charge gets to decide anything they want, and if it means making a new canon then so be it.
Whatever he says goes. It's SEGA property baby, if they want things to have no consequences, magically make sense and fix themselves without making a god damn lick of sense then they will. You and me are both at a loss. Christ. This isn't that fucking hard to understand.

web.archive.org/web/20100817082306/http://www.game.co.uk/Games/Wii/Platform/Sonic-Colours/~r349876/UserControls/ProductView/#
Here, eggman is the only fucking human in colors world. End of story.
Your autism is the actual disorder at this point, not the knowledge.

This is not simpler or more efficient or elegant or whatever the fuck you want to call it, it's just autistic

...

Pic unrelated, nigger.

You're literally not making an argument. You're just ignoring what I said and acting as if it's some sort of ego thing just because you can't understand how literally every other long running series works.

The instant what you say is actually published, then you're right. I'm not the one making an argument here. I'm simply saying to take the published materials at face value. The simplest solution. Instead you're talking the on the spot words of a guy who doesn't give a shit, especially at the time, and trying to do all sorts of mental gymnastics involving alternate timelines and other stuff that has never once been hinted at in the actual material, in order to justify stuff that isn't even part of the actual material.

And Tony Stark is still canon. He's just not Iron Man right now, but his stories are all still canon. If you asked Stan Lee, though, he'd say Tony Stark is Iron Man. That doesn't suddenly make Ri Ri not canon, however much many people may wish it would.

...

...

nigger the PC version has a dedicated super sonic button and so does the superior Sonic 3 Complete. Even Sonic 4 has a dedicated super sonic button. Plus it was announced weeks ago.

Well that's fucking hilarious, but I wouldn't call it a reference

There is no screen crunch in the Master System version so this is only an issue in the game Game Gear version. Also I don't believe that hole in "not secret area.png" is a bottomless pit.

The source I posted correlates directly with what is present in the game (colors), ergo, no humans present except eggman, ergo, changed canon.
Ergo, there are different worlds, it is published and confirmed, ergo, you are wrong.

Interviews aren't games. Maybe if the interview was at least in the game as an unlockable or something, but even then it would be iffy, because it blatantly contradicts what is in the actual games.

Go ahead and tell me how I'm the one doing mental gymnastics by not acting as if Sonic Generations isn't about time travel, but actually about going to all sorts of parallel dimensions. Just a coincidence that Modern Sonic seems to remember all of the games in question. Strange, isn't it?

Let me know when you see any humans in colors, lost world, and forces okay?
I ought to find the other source that says almost every sonic game takes place in different little bubbles, different canons. That would really rile you up into maximum damage control.
If you can't see what's being put in front of you, you are either trolling or being deliberately dishonest. I really don't believe I should have to point this out for you.

"We're intending Sonic Colors to be played by children of probably between six and twelve years-old.
So, with Sonic Colors we have aimed more to make a game that everyone can control and have fun in. So, it's not really a game for the core gamers. If you take the rail grind, it's something that's fast, not difficult but is fun to do and looks great. It's about making a game that's right for the core audience of the game."

NuSonic fags confirmed for being retarded manchildren Sonic Team looks down on

You're just going to keep ignoring my actual argument, huh?

Cite all the interviews you want. Interviews aren't canon, especially if they contradict what is actually in the games themselves.

Well stuff from Sonic Adventure is in Forces, so there's that. But now you're gonna do some mental gymnastics saying Adventure isn't canon, it's some sort of alternate version of Adventure where everything is the same except no humans.

Not all elements of a universe need to appear in every entry. Spider-Man is the same universe as Howard the Duck. They're very different tones and go on different types of adventures and you only see them together on occasion. Doesn't mean it's not canon.

How deluded can one man get?

Anyone here like Sonic Maps? When Will Mania Maps be published?

also the d-pad on genesis was technically 4 additional buttons. So if I where pedantic, your statement about it being meant to be a one button game is patently false.

By prioritizing these interviews, you are literally saying games aren't canon to themselves.

Sonic 06 is not cannon.

It is, but relegated most of its events to an alternate timeline at the end of its own story. See: Sonic '06, Sonic Generations.

...

I expect great mods from this game

"Most" as in autistic kids in the fan "community". The evidence seems to suggest Creators of the game genuinely don't give a fuck about your tumblr head-cannon.

Likely we will just get the same levels/mods for Generations converted for Forces format. Which would be pretty cool tbh

What? I wasn't talking about anything outside of the game itself. I said "most" to qualify that technically there's a scene at the end that takes place after the timeline was changed and therefore isn't in the same timeline as the rest of the game. Also maybe there's some stuff in flashback or past sequences that would still count in the altered timeline, idk.

You can re-read my posts. Up until now I was the one arguing that they didn't give a fuck. Now you're changing tactics and saying they don't when before you were disagreeing with me? Well I'm glad we agree.

And head-canon refers to stuff that's not actually said in any of the material. I'm literally only citing what's in the material itself. You're the one doing autistic headcanon that requires you to jump through absurd hoops in order to justify tertiary, out of universe material that isn't actually in any of the games.

...

oh jeez my file uploaded twice ignore the first one

thanks for testing it out.

They aren't mazelike. Sometimes, the climbing bars have two different paths to follow, and both let you either make progress or get a bonus shield or rings and make progress. How were they like "mazes" for you? It's Mania we'are talking about, not CD.

And? The airbone cage is nothing hard to reach to it (just press right after jumping off the climbing bar) nor to get out of it (the fans afterwards cover you), and the fans there always guide you and never make you accidently suicide, which I have no idea how were you able to miss that grabable bar on picture 3.

The bottomless pits and fans are there to compliment the overall style and atmosphere the zone is aiming to recreate: you're on a dangerous flying ship, and you have to be careful to not fall off, while the rolling cages further shows the machinery and engineering of the ship itself, which also helps the recreation too.

Okay, this is understable. I did reach on theses parts and I did fall for theses traps too, while I also understood the references. I admit this is a design flaw.

But still, picture 4 resolves it all: you have the downward scrolling command to check what's down there. If you knew the command, you wouldn't be a fool to fall for theses traps.

There's nothing there outside of the questionable flaw design I have mentioned that is annoying or bad. The badniks there are weak, any element to interect is easy to analyze and interact it, there are no obstacles that are hard to pass over, and the zone itself offers enough shields to protect you against any kind of incoming attack. You will have to excuse me if I'm interpreting it like everyone is stupid except me, but sounds like to me you just haven't gotten gud yet. I suggest to perhaps try stopping being bad for once.

I strongly disagree. I guess you could say Hydrocity on Mania is just boring with not much of new elements to interact or new level design to experience, but Lava Reef and Flying Battery are amazing on Mania, though. Expecially on act 2 of Flying Battery, where the main fact of facts that you can blast off over a flying ship while it's raining WHILE you have to fight the big zapping structures of mines being controlled by badniks shows enough evidence that Flying Battery shows its best of bests on Mania.

How about being pissed off over something worthwhile to care instead? Like, for example, the fact Mania has ONLY ==ONE== ZONE FROM SONIC 1 ==AND GUESS WHO IS IT?==

Star Light?
Spring Yard?
Scrap Brain?
Marble?
Or even Labyrinth?

NOOOOOOOOOO

IT'S MOTHERFUCKER GODDAMN ==GREEN HILL ZONE==, THE ZONE THAT MAKES REPETITIVE APPEARANCES FOR SEVERAL TIMES FOR EVERY SONIC GAME SINCE WHEN IIZUKA CAME IN FOR WHATEVER IDIOTIC REASON ==WOOOOOOOOOOOAH THAT'S FUCKING BRILLANT==

It's really "nice" that they forget other first grass zones exist too, like Palmtree Panic, Emerald Hill or Angel Island.

Angel Island Zone is the only one different enough to not just feel like the same thing under a different name though. So fuck it. If they're gonna be using Green Hill Zone, might as well call it that. You could call it Emerald Hill, but it would still be another Green Hill Zone.

But that said, the next game better be all new levels.

You need to have one in the first place.
They are. Keep plugging your ears though. You're worse than a child. At least they have an excuse to be ignorant.
It doesn't matter, it still applies, regardless of contradiction. The people in charge have the ability to overwrite things, something you've DEFINITELY never heard of..
For the sake of plot.
I'm going with what Iizuka tells me. Is it retarded? Fuck yes. Does it make sense? God no. Even with your timeline making more sense, it's still 2 worlds, how Sonic goes from having humans in one game to ZERO humans in another is beyond me, even with elements.
The shit with the humans made no sense. They don't exist except when they do? What does that even mean? WELL WHATEVER IT MEANS, IT APPLIES.
The whole thing happened with humans but they made it happen without humans now for the sake of making it happen, They. Don't. Care. About. Consistency

Nothing in the classic games even implied that humans beside Eggman were even a factor in Sonic's world, and suddenly they're a major facet of the lore without any explanation? Like, actual real world cars and human-populated cities exist all of a sudden? Sonic's world has, like, governments and stuff living hand-in-hand with talking superpowered animals and this is the first we've heard of any of it? And we were just supposed to accept that? Would you imagine how damn hard something like that would have been to accept back then? They've been pulling this shit out of their ass for almost 20 years now, but recently they've gone back to that now.
While I can definitely see the links between S3&K and SA1, I'd say the links between SA1 and 2 are far less direct, and require quite a bit of grasping and fan speculation. The echidna tribe's involvement in SA2's plot is tangential at the very best.

Just look at Sonic Battle, it blatantly contradicts what is stated in SA2. So, Gerald went crazy after finding out Maria died and so reprogrammed Shadow into a vengeful killing machine, right? Or wait, was it that he heard about Maria's death and decided he never wanted something like that to happen again, and so programmed the Gizoid to "bring hope to humanity"? These two scenarios directly contradict each other! Either he went crazy or he didn't, pick one.

Of course they don't, but it doesn't confirm that they're there either. Mighty not appearing in mania means he isn't in fucking mania for example, what you're saying is "Well, he COULD be in Mania, you don't know!!", then go up to 11 with you abstract bullshit instead of taking it in face value.
You're making this needlessly difficult for something so god damn obvious.
Well, this classic sonic is the same classic sonic from generations, but he's still said as being from a different universe, so….
That's a pretty fucking heavy implication mate, it says he comes from another dimension but already knows sonic, if that ain't proof I have no fucking clue what is.
sonic.sega.jp/SonicForces/character/
board.sonicstadium.org/profile/2604-vedj-f/?status=885706&type=status
A few people are questioning it now.

Personally, the best way to enjoy the story in Sonic games is to turn your brain off and not think about things too much.
Anyways, I'm done with you. Even if the entire fucking sonic cast came out in a game and said whatever the hell you're against, you'd still fucking deny it and try to shoehorn some other canon's example that has nothing to do with sonic just to prove your point about dumb shit that doesn't matter. Keep living in your delusions, peace nigga.

I've explained many times why things outside the actual published material isn't canon. That is my argument. You have not provided any actual counterargument. You just keep repeating that I'm wrong, ignoring any points against you.

They have the ability. If they actually publish material that does so, then so be it. But they haven't.

Yes, we're talking about plots here.

It's not mine. It's simply pointing out that the games reference each other and some guy giving an on the spot answer in a translated interview talking about the plot which he obviously doesn't care about because it's just about the least important part of his team's product, is not enough to contradict what his team ends up actually putting in the games.

Might as well complain that some games have Knuckles in them and others don't. Some games have South Island in them and others don't. I guess that means South Island doesn't exist in Sonic 2 because you don't see it.

Not every adventure goes to their locations or involves them. There are plenty of characters who appear sometimes and not others, and this goes for every series ever made. Do you watch The Simpsons and just assume Apu doesn't exist in episodes where he doesn't appear?

They don't care about plot period. That means they don't care enough to actually publish any games that confirm your retarded ass headcanon. They simply make games with practically no story, so they don't need to think about or pay attention to previous ones. They're not relevant. Doesn't mean they didn't happen. In fact, they do still reference them regularly, which indicates that they did. But since they don't give a shit, some guy giving an interview isn't going to think hard about it. It's not like he writes the stories for these things or anything.

No they're not. Even in Adventure 1 they're not really relevant to the story. They're simply a newer civilization that lives near the old Echidna's homeland. They weren't relevant to the events of the previous games, and they're barely relevant here. They're relevant to Adventure 2 because, as you pointed out, it's basically the beginning of a new story arc.

They simply weren't relevant before.

Tough to hear stuff when the previous games had pretty much zero dialogue and the stories of them all happened on mythical floating islands.

I was old enough to remember when the Dreamcast came out. I didn't give a fuck because I wasn't into the cartoons (anymore) or the comics. Simply adding these elements on to the previous stuff we had was no more jarring than the general change to 3D (after practically skipping a whole generation). But I was impressed enough with seeing Sonic in 3D and in high quality Dreamcast graphics and all the other new stuff they could do with it. This was just one more new thing.

It's a new plotline but there are still connections. They point out that Tails was awarded a Chaos Emerald for saving Station Square from Eggman's missile attack.

He found out Maria died, and was told it was an accident, and reprogrammed the Gizoid, but once he found out that Maria died at the hands of GUN and not in an "accident," he went crazy and initiated his doomsday plans.

It's not a contradiction. All the events go together.

But when some elements do, then you're just pulling crazy mental gymnastics to try to say the rest of that game isn't canon. To have Chaos appear and have Sonic fight Perfect Chaos again, but then say Adventure isn't canon, is purely retarded. The game clearly treats Adventure as canon, and some random translated on the spot answer from a guy who doesn't write the stories and doesn't give a shit about them and purposely makes the games have minimal stories is not enough to contradict what actually ends up in the games themselves.

What I'm saying is that Mighty doesn't appear in Mania but that's no reason to think Mighty literally doesn't exist. Especially since fucking Bean and Bark appear in Mania. To just randomly say random things aren't canon for no particular reason is retarded. But you're going beyond that and saying things that are explicitly referenced are still not canon, because you think the actual content of the games aren't the ultimate authority on themselves.

You're the one jumping through hoops instead of just taking the games at face value.

Yeah that's interesting. He says "dimension" in that cutscene. But the game isn't out yet. We'll get more info then. I figure what it might mean is that Classic Sonic is technically a different but very similar timeline (which makes sense since Modern Sonic doesn't remember experiencing Generations as Classic Sonic in the past). But in all likelihood that one line that we already heard will be the extent of what we hear on the matter, because the game probably won't focus on the story much at all.

That's what I'm saying. You're the one adding all this crazy shit about every single game being an alternate timeline or universe or whatever, even games that have nothing to do with time travel.

But I'm the one saying to actually count what's in the game, and not say that things that are actually in the game are overruled by things that aren't in the game. You're literally accusing me of doing exactly what you're doing.

All right fuckface here's why you're wrong. I'll show the original FBZ then Mania's FBZ, starting from the platform you ride down on.

Obviously the rings are good and being shot is bad so you jump to get the rings and automatically grab onto the bars. Climbing to the left to get the other rings shows:
Now you know about the climbing bars and can easily jump off onto the second robot and move further left.
Flames are dangerous so you climb on these bars too. There's a dead end but you might as well get all the rings so
Jumping on top of the flat-top flamethrower deactivates it and works as a platform to jump onto the next set of bars.
You can just about see an item on the left and if you go to the left there's a fire barrier and a 10-ring. Going right continues the level.

Here's all the stuff you just learned:
- two enemy types. One is slow and shoots and one is fast but doesn't shoot
- two varieties of flamethrowers, one safe to stand on and one not
- climbing bars and extendable climbing bars that can bring you through floors

Sonic Mania fucks it up.

Which way do you go? I don't know, but the bottom-right path is the least important so
If you're really lucky the mines will blow up as you're being pushed over them and you'll get hurt, which happened to me after taking this picture.
Will you grab onto the leftmost bar and see that they can lower you into the next area? I don't know, because you might've jumped off already because there aren't any more rings to get.
Going to the left requires jumping over that flamethrower so you might hop off of these bars to check out the left path. It's a 10-ring and a dead end, so you then have to find out how to get to the next area (the leftmost bar in this picture lowers you through the floor)
The only thing the left path has is a secret fire barrier hidden in the ceiling (to be revealed by you deciding to jump into the ceiling from a platform flamethrower or being violently shoved into it later by a launcher on the lower area) and the right path has you climbing right on bars over a flamethrower, jumping off, then jumping to another set of bars to be lowered into another area with a launcher on the left. Touching the launcher instantly reverses all your progress in this area but gives you an item, and going right continues the level.

Here's what you learned:
- fuck where do I go it's full of dead ends
- a lot of mouse robots on floors and walls and ceilings and another enemy that shoots
- bars that rise into the ceiling and bars that don't. Some bars go down, possibly through floors
- exactly one type of flamethrower
- launchers that shove you the wrong way

If you say "but Mania's is cooler" fuck you. It is not an effective communication of gameplay through level design.

He is turquoise in the box art because if he was red it would be too easy to add 1 and 1 and see he is infinite, even the eye color is the same.

...

We've been over this already

He found out Maria died, and was told it was an accident, and reprogrammed the Gizoid, but once he found out that Maria died at the hands of GUN and not in an "accident," he went crazy and initiated his doomsday plans.

That would contradict that video in Shadow's Last Story in which he is fully aware of an impending G.U.N. coup to kill everyone involved in the project and tries to warn Shadow about it along with the Black Arms' real intentions.

Embed related has Iizuka giving the same answer on the moon in a convention 4 years ago that he gave in the archive I posted earlier. Be warned, it's 45 mins. long and I don't know when he says it exactly. I think he also touches upon the Super Emeralds being retconned, the "two worlds" thing, stuff like that

Forgot to greentext the first part. And here's the a vid corresponding to Gerald about G.U.N. If Battle was canon, either he was naive or schizo to believe that Maria died in an "accident" if he knew G.U.N. was getting ready to purge them. Then again, he does say he's getting senile in Expert Mode which explains why the Artificial Chaos got out of control.

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