New Vegas & The Legion

Sure, but the writing for House is more of an anomaly in that regard compared to presentations of ideologies as a general thing in games.

The House always wins user.

I agree, doesnts Caesars Legion promote homosexuality at some point? Could have been an edit or some user talking shit. Also the fact the Legion erases the identity and history of those they conquer does sound really (((familiar))).

They're the only faction that would have traps.

House only cares about advancing technology, he wants Vegas secured under his rule so he can do this in peace. This is made very clear multiple times, he wouldn't even give a shit about NCR or the Legion if they would just leave him alone to begin with. He's definitely full of himself, but I don't see how you can say he's a megalomaniac, especially in comparison to Caesar.

And stopping raids is nice, but how is that worth it when the thing that's stopping the raids is an oppressive state that brutalizes its citizens and enforces the worship of its head of state? Caesar has the children in his territories raised by his religious institution so they can be indoctrinated into believing he's a an actual divine figure. The entire thing is a pyramid scheme designed to benefit the guy at the top, and the only way you advance yourself is by proving your total loyalty to the collective, the state, and thus the tyrant at the top of it, over everything else.

The NCR is just a typically corrupt democracy, and I prefer House over them, but I'd still take the taxes and Brahmin Barons of the NCR over the slavery, indoctrination, and individual thought crushing oppression of the Legion.

Checked. Nah the whole homosexual thing is mostly just stuff other NPCs who are against the Legion say as an insult to them. Caesar actually has the death penalty for homosexuality because he views at as a detriment to breeding more soldiers. Caesar is pretty utilitarian in how he set up a lot of the Legion.

Yeah that's true in most games anything that is not a liberal democracy is totally and irredeemably evil, even if it makes no sense.

Because new vegas is objectively inferior to fallout 3 but Holla Forums desperately latches on it because it's a bethesda game they can enjoy because it's technically not bethesda.
Alpha protocol is the superior Obsidian game.

Lies. Traps are gay and therefore punishable by death in the Legion.

Newfags need to leave.

This game was written by a literal SJW (JEG Sawyer), so yeah the "fascist" faction isn't even fascist at all. To further prove this, the SJW writer even self-inserted himself as a former Legion guy named (((Joshua))).

All the factions are garbage in this game. Holla Forums is predisposed to like anything with "roman" aesthetic even when the actual faction in game proves that it's just a den of degeneracy. They fall into the same pitfall with TES' Imperials, who even sport roman armor but are nothing more than multi-culti cucks who push for forced integration of all nations so that they can establish trade routes for merchants.

Stop lying to yourself and accept the truth.

Hey Clanton, you left your bike lock behind.

It's an imitation of the Roman Empire for fucks sake. Sure fascism was too but it needed an industrialized society to use the proper propaganda and educational tools.

Did you read any Roman history? The Roman Emperor was the divine representative on Earth.

The Roman state was very meritocratic and disciplined. You need to have smart people to move up ranks if you want a successful military.

You mean pressed into the army? There's no organized education in a wasteland idot. The communist one was based on many propaganda tools. Made possible in an INDUSTRIALIZED society.

House cares only for himself. He's a typical "old money".

The only people who like Legion are christfag Holla Forumsacks because they hang people on crosses and say degenerate

If Caesar wasn't such a retard with his neo-Luddite hard-on the Legion would border on unstoppable.
Sadly, Caesar had to go full retard.
Considering the NCR, with the exception of the Rangers, has basically no survival training Legionaries knowledge of basic field medicine gives them a huge edge that should be supplanted with actual modern medicine.

Not even those anons like the Legion, trust me.
t. christfag Holla Forumsack

The Legion isn't supposed to be liked. They're supposed to be the big nasty faction like orcs but have an actual reason why they're that way instead of "they do it for the lulz". The questlines where you help them are just there for completeness. There's a reason why the game being rushed meant Legion content got cut the most.

its heavily implied that he is not trying to be rome but create it from nothing. witch is stupid because rome was formed from a city state and therefore would not be the same from any other formation. Cesar skipping to muh roman empire with a slave army is a far heaver parallel to islam down to its dictates the conquest and assimilation of outsiders the domination of all levels of society forcing an abandonment of chems strict moral codes, a protection of economic activity while at the same time mandating all actions being For The State. and not tolerating any action that goes against it. the domination of separate peoples into a culturally monogamous and if Cesar keeps it up ethnically homogeneous as much as mutts can be state.

but rather than mention islam they go with muh pax romana dominating culture that ((overrides)) other culture therefore its ok to be a civic nationalist.

I agree, if they had been fleshed out properly and they made Caesar less of an absolute dick and not a cult of personality, then they would have been a truly viable option

Didn't the people writing the game say they had to make there be no choice in not killing the brotherhood of steel as it made almost everyone want to choose Mr. House?

If they had given it to both the NCR and House, there would be no issues since you can do it for 3/4 endings

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Not doable truthfully. All the Roman Emperors had a cult of personality around them.
Though they were also one of the most technologically advanced civilizations at the time and Obsidian threw that aside.

well he is sort of the defalut option

he hired you payed you offers you more money and didnt shoot you in the fucking head. the ncr seems kinda like a shitsow from the start and legion is assumed to be the big bad guys and "independent" is for if you shoot to many people to regularly complete the game.

Nigger you best be joking.

am i fucking wrong?

It's a poor imitation at best. It strikes more of a communist system than an imperial system. And no, I mean they are straight up taken from their families and put into indoctrination education.

From the wiki:

Yeah taking kids from families and placing them into camps in order to learn how best to serve the state sure sounds similar to Imperial Rome, oh wait, they never did that, but every socialist government LOVES that shit. The state should be responsible for the education of the children, not families. And Caesar agrees, apparently.

The only merit that matters in collectivist regimes is how well you contribute to the collective. It doesn't matter if you have talent and intelligence, ambition and strength, if you are using that to advance yourself, and not the state, you are not rewarded, and in many cases are punished. Caesar only provides a semblance of a meritocracy system insofar as it exists if you directly serve his interests in his military. Again this is reminiscent of a Communist state, where the military class is second only to the political class since they help enforce the will of the state.

House cares about advancing tech and pulling humanity back up to where it was before the war. If he only cared about himself this wouldn't be his goal. Also, the very criticism you level against him sounds Marxist, "old money" as if being rich or successful is something to be ashamed of. Not to mention that "old money" is generally something inherited, whereas House earned his entire fortune and is the only reason Vegas isn't just another radioactive crater in the Wasteland.

And we haven't even gone into the stupidity of Caesars Luddite bullshit, which he clearly espouses because if people actually became educated and understood the tech that was out there, they'd realize he wasn't a god, he's just a fucking conman that took them for a ride and exploited their ignorance rather than lifting them out of it.

How pozzed is Obsidian now?

No gods, no masters. House is too AnCap for me.

Did you seriously just call Sparta a communist state?

can you fuck up an independent run?
is his quest anything but house quests that you can skip?
what does he do other than some vague lore promise to let you be in charge during the credits?

Independent is the only ending that can't be fucked up by any means and is always available to the player. It was a great way to make 99% of NPC's killable without having players break the game's main quest for themselves.

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Athens > Spartan. Also what the fuck? Independent is the most AnCap of them all, everyone is left to their own self governance since you destroyed all the relevant structures of state in the region.

Meant for

He's more of a technocrat.

Yes Man actually implies that you won't be all that in charge. He says right at the end that he found a way to reprogram himself to be more assertive. So probably the Independent ending results in you putting an AI with a possible inferiority complex in charge of Vegas.

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The only reason the people on the Strip have wealth and luxury to begin with is because House gave it to them. What is he supposed to do, invite EVERYONE into Vegas to try and "help them", the poor refugee immigrants that they are?

Obviously not. House is a business man. Any claims that he's trying to uplift the Mojave are pure fantasy though.
He's good at what he does and he likes it. Nothing more, nothing less.
You would too if you got all that sweet robo-pussy.

They're alright. Just underdeveloped. They're basically a stable military dictatorship facing no internal resistance. Like evey faction in the game they have their pros and cons.

t. (((Independent Vegas)))

I wouldn't say House is selfish as much as he is an ego driven narcisistic "hero", think Ozymandias. He genuinely believes himself to be the savior of the wasteland, though he only cares about the one part of the wasteland that has any hope of recovering modern civilization, that being New Vegas.

Think you've been drinking too much flouride there, champ.

The legion is the most accepting faction of gays you noob

I don't think facing no internal resistance due to absolute brutality and oppression is a selling point, user.

Are they? Half the NPCs seem to imply they're open to it and the other imply its a crime.

fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Jimmy_(Fallout:_New_Vegas)

Try again pleb. Caesar is shit but the entire "Legion are fags" is something said by the Legions foes because they know it's a taboo for them.

I agree with you, komrade

Did you skip the ending slides?

They're not controlled by Brahmin Barons, no one schemes against them like most of the families seem to do against House, they don't suffer from rampent starvation or death and suffering. Technically their lives are great compared to a lot of other peoples.
Yeah they're still slaves but they're safe and secure as long as they don't step afoul of a Legionaire.
that's why you can choose who you side with, user. To each according to his views.

So who's doing the dividing and conquering? Or is your mind just poisoned by memes?

this is why right wing death squads exist

You're wasting your time trying to be reasonable. Every Fallout thread inevitably devolves into a faction dick-measuring contest.
Best Faction isn't even really in New Vegas anyway.

Caeser would have to execute almost the entire Legion due to there only being men in the legion. Just because they are punished for it doesn't mean they aren't all ass munching faggots.

They absolutely do suffer from rampant death and suffering. It's just death and suffering inflicted on them by the oppressive state, rather than bands of outlaws. What a great trade, you still have vile thugs destroying your life, but now, instead of being outlaws you have a chance to fight off with your guns and community, the thugs have total power over you since they run the state and comprise the military.

t. Boomer

Pretty sure it's a crime considering that they need men to breed, that along with the story of the high-ranking Centurion who secretly had the fag prostitute means it's likely that it is actually a crime

You do realize that the Legion has shit tons of women serving them as slaves, right? You did read the dialogue and endings where they talk about the higher ranking Legionaires getting the best women slaves as wives? Women are complete property in the Legion and the higher your ranking in the state the better pussy you get, so no, I don't think they're faggots at all. Come on bro, the Legion is shit, but let's keep the criticism to where it's warranted.

GIVE ME A LIST OF LOLI MODS FOR NEW VEGAS

Fuck the Boomers, that faction made zero sense. Nearly as jarring as Little Lamplight in its ridiculous stupidity.

And fuck you for your actual point too, Hitler fought against communists passionately because they are a plague. Fascism allows for personal freedom and the pursuit of individual excellence, which is a key difference between it and communist type states.

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Your issue with the Legion seems to be you have likened them to a Communist state. They're really more like technologically backwards NatSoc military dictatorship.

Try harder (((Brahmin Barons)))

I liken them to a Communist State because they have far more in common with such a state than they do Imperial Rome or the Third Reich.

Reminder you are only seeing their forward military camps and their actual society is deep in Arizona.

“Breeding issues are pretty huge in cultures that took a big step back from infant mortality progress made in the last 100-200 years. Prior to the last few centuries, infant mortality was often around 50%-ish. Child mortality (prior to age 12) was about 60%. Those are pretty awful odds of reaching adulthood.
Remember that Caesar's Legion is basically a roving army that continually breaks down and absorbs tribes that it conquers. That can only go on for so long, and Legionaries who are indoctrinated from birth are even more loyal than adolescents who are integrated. Breeding new generations of Legionaries is vital for the Legion's continued existence.
Even though breeding is incredibly important in the Legion, there isn't any concept of family outside of the Legion's structure. All of the places where the player encounters the Legion are forward camps where direct military service is given the most weight and is of the most immediate importance. Because only males are involved in that service, they look down upon females even though it's incredibly short-sighted.
The additional Legion locations would have had more traveling non-Legion residents of Legion territories. The Fort and Cottonwood Cove made sense as heavy military outposts where the vast majority of the population consisted of soldiers and slaves. The other locations would have had more "civilians". It's not accurate to think of them as citizens of the Legion (the Legion is purely military), but as non-tribal people who live in areas under Legion control.
While Caesar intentionally enslaves NCR and Mojave residents in the war zone, most of the enslavement that happens in the east happens to tribals. As Raul indicates, there are non-tribal communities that came under Legion control a long time ago. The additional locations would have shown what life is like for those people.
The general tone would have been what you would expect from life under a stable military dictatorship facing no internal resistance: the majority of people enjoy safe and productive lives (more than they had prior to the Legion's arrival) but have no freedoms, rights, or say in what happens in their communities. Water and power flow consistently, food is adequate, travel is safe, and occasionally someone steps afoul of a legionary and gets his or her head cut off. If the Legion tells someone to do something, they only ask once – even if that means an entire community has to pick up and move fifty miles away. Corruption within the Legion is rare and Caesar deals with it harshly (even by Legion standards).
In short, residents of Legion territories aren't really citizens and they aren't slaves, but they're also not free. People who keep their mouths shut, go about their business, and nod at the rare requests the Legion makes of them – they can live very well. Many of them don't care at all that they don't have a say in what happens around them (mostly because they felt they never had a say in it before the Legion came, anyway).[7]

Forgot to mention that quote is from J.E Sawyer.

HAHAHAHA No, they're not. They're basically islamists but worse since they practice homosexuality.

Totally not Communist, right.

When the day of the rope comes you alt-lite fags are going too.

I can't wait for everyone to lynch everyone else on the day of the rope

330 million people hanging from lampposts

not a single sound from coast to coast

>Thinking that (((Joshua Sawyer))) actually wanted to create a believable fascist faction
How fucking gullible are you?

They live in a nuclear desert, raiders wants to rape/kill/eat each everyone, tribals run around killing each other over rocks,and half the factions keep pumping drugs into everyone.
What exactly do you want them to do? Let everyone run around in flowery clothes and get together in a senate to bicker about shit instead of actually getting shit done. The Legion is a brutal faction trying to survive in a brutal world and it's heavily implied by Caesar the Legion isn't his endgoal for society, just a conquest tool.

Checked. It's not technical, you are free. In the Third Reich you were free to do just about everything you're free to do in our society today. Open a business, go to church, raise your children as you see fit, and so forth. All of these things, you cannot, of course, do in a Communist system. They simply pushed the Jews out of their influence and control of society, and surprise surprise, things got back to a healthy state damned fast without the need to brutalize the general populace. Exactly what do you imagine National Socialism to be, anyway? Sage for offtopic.

one man left in the Midwest who proply hangs himself

In my current Legion run, I'm playing an asian melee expert who likes bullies. He's allied with every faction that's initially hostile to him, the Omertas, the Legion, the Khans to some extent.

Killed Benny though. In the ring. Fuck that guy.

He sounds gay family

What a shock

fuck♂you♂

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yablewit.jpg

HOUSE OR GO HOME, I WILL FUCK BOTH LEGION AND NCR FAGGOTS WITH A ROBOT

Yeah well I needed some reason for why I'm putting up with Caesar. His entire legion called me degenerate and wastrel the second they saw me and it really irritated me, but I've never done a Caesar legion so I just kept striving.

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Except it isn't just a draft, it's an indoctrination system, which is made abundantly clear multiple times.

And, do you really think the response to the barbarity of the Wasteland is to resort to a collectivist state that utterly destroys any sense of individuality, and the true bastion of civilization, the family itself? Exactly what is Caesars Legion based on aside from inculcating fanatical loyalty to Caesar himself? It has nothing to stand on, no ideals, no common purpose, and its people have no identity.

For fucks sake, when you play through Lonesome Road, Ulysses talks about how the White Legs adopted his hairstyle to honor him, and he almost raged out and killed them because to him, it was just a mockery since in his tribe, it was part of a cultural tradition that helped establish your place and accomplishments in the tribe. And Caesar completely annihilated that when he wiped out and assimilated his tribe like all the rest.

That's the whole point of states like Caesars and Communism, and even, ironically multiculturalism today. The whole idea that only when everyone is the same, everyone is under the same banner, will things be the way they should be, because differences are what create strife. Enforce the monoculture, eliminate all traces of individualism and uniqueness, and make everything subservient to the state. And in the process extinguish everything that makes life worth living for a lifeless husk.

For

Okay this is the third time you've done that. Are you a literal Boomer?

This is another reason why Legion is a joke. They're out there slaving and pimping women to niggers and sucking each other's cocks, but calling others degenerates. In a way that really is just like communism, where the most degenerate of all pretended to know what was proper and what wasn't.

Caesar admits that the legion is a barbaric garbage. Thats why he wants when he assimilates the NCR for it to change the Legion too. He wants them to merge into a functioning system.

Didn't they have to cut sparing the Brotherhood in House's line due to nobody wanting to play any other final quest line?

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He's right, though. You can't even provide any counter-arguments because it's all true.

the existence of a kin group is the fundamental justification of a government. i serve the interests of the collective for the sake of my family the collective. any type of morality or virtue is based upon this basic tenant.
i will not lie cheat and steal because it damages society the society that me and my own benefit from. this of course being the modern christian justification that we need to have universal morality (we are all brothers and sisters in Christ goy) traditionally before Christianity what was good was what was good for your family>extended family>kin group>nation>humanity in general>nature. meaning it would be moral to steal from some foreigners to bring wealth to you family. now we have a morality where its ok for the state to make you pay for ELL classes for Somalians shipped in on your tax dollars to have these apes go to school with your children. so that they AT THE VERY BEST drive down wages for entry level jobs.
substituting ethnic kinship for cultural kinship can create a system that feeds itself much like Christianity managed to limit wars between kings and provide some vague general defense of Christendom. and in the better example of islam forming a culturally but not ethnically homogeneous society worked to a certen extent, even if its rise and fall is based upon the talents of those who take the rains.
ALL in all a far better solution for the waists than some corrupt pack of Civic nationalists, a corpse and a robot that replaces him. but really a brotherhood or boomer or just about any side faction getting to have a win at the end would be better than just about any of the choices you get.

The problem with a lot of political ideas is usually how you go about both implementing and enforcing them.
The more extreme your ideas are, the harder it becomes to do any of that, but the more idealistic you become.
Past a certain point, you stop looking at your actions and your methods caring more about the intentions and results than what you're actually doing.

So you'll see a lot of different groups, all vociferously advocating for their own view on how the world should be run but without a clear way to achieve it.
And when pressed for specifics, you'll notice how similar their methods (not their intentions) actually are.

For instance, both Communism and Fascism have their own idea about how the world should work that's quite different from one another, but both require a collectivist mindset to be branded into everyone's mind, equating their leader to a god-like figure and everyone else to feel happy they can give their lives for the sake of everyone else.
Their ideology is fundamentally different but their results not so much, since the methods enforced to achieve them aren't that different.

It's a bit like having two chefs deciding what they want to cook for dinner, but once they start, they both put water and rice in the pan.

And what happens when the interests of the collective go against your family?
What if the collective requires both parents to not be home to educate their children?
What if the collective requires that the father enlist and likely die in a way, removing the paternal figure from the family?
What if the collective requires you to breed as much as possible, regardless of how much you love your wife?
What if the collective saddles you up with an harpy that leeches off you and does not help to build a family, but the collective doesn't care as long as it gets it's next generation?

Reminder that shortly before Rome and Greece fell, it was essentially a feminist state where women enjoyed an easy life at the expense of their husbands due to many laws protecting them for the sake of generating more Romans. It got to a point that special restrictions had to be implemented to make men actually marry (they were refusing and migrating to avoid the local women) like extra taxes or reserved seats in the Coliseum, and it didn't even work, they preferred to pay the extra taxes than marry those women.

The collective (Rome) required them to marry and breed as much as possible to the point that it was detrimental to the concept of a family since it made husbands something guaranteed, not something you earned for being a good wife.

You can stop describing the political compass now. I'm tired you fags talking about shit like this muh horseshoe and start describing the correlation on which the political compass is built upon like its some amazing observation.

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To be honest, my decision on the legion seems to be on the fact that the world is a barely civilized wasteland and not like the world before. I believe the main goal most people aim in this game is bringing back civilization regardless of what they think this civilization should be. The main things preventing civilization from returning are crime, banditry, drugs and tribalism, so let's put most of these things into perspective for each faction.

The NCR, while being free, comes with all the problems a democratic society normally has, but more. Crime, drugs, corrupt politicians, taxes and banditry, are just a few things in its failed democratic system. These are apparent all over, traders have to bring their caravans under guard to avoid being robbed and must pay excessive taxes to boot, you see this in places where the NCR already has influence with Powder Gangers and Fiends running around.

House is just your typical rich prick. He doesn't care about civilization, it doesn't affect him. He doesn't want to help the poor in Freeside, it doesn't affect him. He just want a bastion where his fellow rich assholes (and ordinary people visiting the Strip so he can make money) can engage in Sodomitic behavior such as drugs and gambling. And what House's Securitrons may make the wasteland more safe, this technology prevents humans from reaching their best potential by not making them train and fight, which is crucial in such times.

Caesar is different, when he rose to power he quickly united all the tribes he conquered into a society. The young men were made into strong and capable soldiers, able to fight in melee combat. Drugs and alcohol, which is detrimental to humanity, were banned. Women were put into more traditional roles (such as raising children and acting as auxiliary to the troops) and not made to fight. Also if you talk to the trader at The Fort, he talks about how he doesn't need security when in Legion territory as there is no bandits, along with no taxes either. Caesar isn't in the process of rebuilding civilization, it's already there unlike where the NCR controls.

Him being worshiped as the son of Mars is necessary for his Legion to exist, sure it's a lie but it's necessary.

Yes these are all necessary if you want to build civilization, you can't think only about yourself but humanity as a whole if you want such.

Is making children grow up to become tough, well trained soldiers that bad, especially in the Fallout world?

Are you implying im centrist?

I like House because his missions make me feel like a secret agent. Also because legion is gay and edgy and NCR are, in general, fuckups.

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Then stop proving us right at every turn? :^)

It's not so much to do with the political compass, just basic human nature. Support from other people is crucial to enforce whatever rule you set in place and you can easily gather support from anyone that agrees with you. However, the more extreme the ideal, the more niche it is so the less support you get, which then requires vorce and violence to adquire.
This is why most politics swing around the center, because center politics gather the most support with the least effort, and this is why liberalism doesn't work (it's a form of extreme that doesn't try to use force to enforce itself) or the authoritatian spectre always end up in bloody violence.

So there is no actual family then, just the collective. There is no individual, no personal responsability, no free will. There's only the hive and the enemies.

The NCR are doing fine. Certainly not good, but they aren't tribals. House has managed to retain the closest thing to civilization you can find as well.
There are more alternatives to keep group cohesion than finding a common enemy to fight or keeping the rowdy elements in the army.

(((MUH SCAPEGOATS)))
when will this meme die
and b rowdy elements where not "kept" in the army, all where assimilated and stopped being foreign/subversive/rowdy.

the legion existed as a force that civilized tribals. it did not need to it built roads established trade routs and fed everyone. it did not need more man power. or a larger army until it decided to start a pissing contest with the ncr over a dam they didn't need. a highly functional nation built upon the ashes of the old world.

What the fuck are you talking about? And who is "us" and "you" here?
And I was talking about your comparison between Gommies and Facism. And Communism is much more extreme than Facism. In fact facism as an idea was spreading rampantly before WW2, it was also as a counter to communism, it was never forced on people as hard as communism. I'm also legitimately confused what you people think facism is.

Never, because that's the fate of organizing an army specifically to fight a specific enemy. When you're done fighting them, you have a bunch of people whose only skills are varied ways of killing people.
What are they gonna do once the war is over? How are you going to sustain them without spoils?

You mean conscripted and abducted those that submitted? Did the USA civilize the indians as well?

I specifically placed the :^) there so you wouldn't take it too seriously, chill my dude.

On the social axis. In the economic one, it's mostly the same, heavily controlled and regulated by the state for the sake of a dynamic economy that serves the country, not the individual. That's where the comparisons come from.

It's actually a very hard term to define, strangely enough.
But without putting any political bias into the definition, it's a political theory around the idea of strength through unity surrounding a leader, to whom everyone obeys so you have a simple but wide hierarchy with very few levels that control large sections.

Thus you have a very efficient ruling class (unlike most other systems) while still not depending entirely on just one person (unlike monarchy) that can quickly mobilize the resources of your country towards it's needs, making it especially effective in times of war.

The problem comes from the question I made earlier "what happens when the interests of the collective collide with those of your family or you", where fascism might apropriate a shop, factory or whatever goods you have if it deems them necessary somewhere else and you're expected to not only accept it but even be thrilled you have the chance to help your country.

It murders individuality in favour of group thinking and delegating decision making processes up the chain of command, which is something that has already been abolished even in most military doctrines so it no longer makes sense for political regimes. It's suitable for short term solutions (like fighting a war), not ruling a country for long periods of time.

People don't care about the politics. They like The Legion because they want to crucify degenerates. Give a kid San Andreas and the first thing he'll do is start beating prostitutes to death.

This actually. People don't play a post-apoc game to rebuild civilization. They play it to shoot people in the head and eat scorpions for dinner.
So a faction that dresses with a "rip and tear" attitude will feel like it makes sense since they do what you want to do anyway.

You just confused me, mate.
Didn't facism have a freer market? I think I read that Mussolini was actually trying to make socialism not stupid and the result was Facism

Based kids.

This also, people don't usually make character with a higher goal. They just think up a personality and class and are kinda done with it. Characters are made to be reactive to the game and not the other way around.

The writer is a turbocuck and he purposely went out of his way to make the Legion as "evil" as possible because they're supposed to represent conservatives. People "like" the Legion just to spite him.

Last time I checked there was suppose to be more to the legion but shitthesda kinda fucked that up.

Fascism is a mess in terms of definitions since nobody can agree on much regarding it, apparently.
From reading a bit, some say there's a common model to it, others say not really, they just implement whatever measure suits the moment. It's a bit of a problem that fascist governments never stay in power for long so they never reach the cultural and racial hegemony they establish as a goal before the economy fixes itself so just like communism, fascism just hasn't been done right yet :^)

The closest I can find to this is the following: The socialized the profit and privatized the losses. Companies where still private businesses, but they had to follow heavy regulation from the state, including the prices at which they could sell things. If they failed, they were the ones affected but if they succeeded, the state would be there to reap the benefits. It's far from a free market if this is how things went.

It also sounds like a pretty good idea until we consider that it kills the concept of competition severely and too many restrictions scare companies away, not to mention a few industries like the arms industry where even more heavily regulated by the state, who needed them.

[citation needed]

An entire civilization built on a lie is going to be shit no matter what, you have already failed at that point

That's bullshit, he stated that they didn't flesh the Legion out enough due to severe time restraints, I'm surprised he wanted to give the Legion such a chance considering he's an SJW fuck

That's the creator's definition of fascism btw.

Reminder that freeside, is what will become of all of Mojave once you choose full anarchy.
House once woke up from his coma, got really angry with aids-ridden niggers fucked up on drugs beyond imagination so he told them to either stop being niggers and change their ooga booga ways into recreations of casino cultures from pre-war, or get the fuck out.
Freeside is literally niggerville where they live in squalor
Freeside has enough infrastructure to become poor man's New Reno
But instead there's a single filthy casino with disgusting booze, a charity healthcare, deranged crooks selling energy weapons, shady twins selling scrap, Elvis LARPers who believe in a retarded combination of might makes right, and ebin lolbert circular logic, "my freedom ends when yours begins"

Except it only appeared for a very short time, worked until it was collapsed by outside forces ,aka the fucking war, and has been demonized to no end since then. And it does not exist anywhere right now, be it in a "not real facism" or any form.

What did he mean by this?

...

The arms industry is one of few that doesn't need much competition. The nature of the business means that their customer base limited, demand is enormous and inflexible, and requirements are constantly escalating. At least as long as you're at war, and fascist nations usually are.

WOW MISOGINY!
archive.is/Wazhh
#DraftOurDaughters
Women's rights are fucking stupid, and women are retarded for falling for them, just like every human is for falling for human rights meme.
Oekaki that took 40 years to make, illustrating the loss of sexual dimorphism in the West where instead of clear differences that compliment each other you have a grey androgynous mess.

Oekaki that took 40 years to make, can't get uploaded
Thanks chodemonkey

So all those great civilizations throughout history that are based around a religion are shit?

...

If it doesn't stand the test of time or competition, then it can't be that good.

He means that women are tried like breeding cattle that you impregnate to make more soldiers and you care little more for them than that. And if they talk it's because they need either food or a slap.
It's bullshit, though. Men and women are different but not so different that one is human and the other an animal…

Acerting superiority over tribals is imperialistic, mate.

No. Religion is a tool to keep order and morals in check. It served it's purpose back then and was usurped later to enforce the "divine rule" of leaders that had nothing of divine.
Wether you believe in religion or not doesn't matter, the fact that it acts as a crime deterrant to some degree was enough to justify it's use.

And in any case, it's not comparable. Priests act out of faith, truly believing what they preach and so far no religion has been proven to be a lie, only unproven.
A lie on the other hand is something different. If a king tells you he has been ordained by God to rule over you, but over the time it's proven that this is bullshit, he loses all authority he has, regardless of how good a leader he is.

Except in the brief time fascism was instituted it had tremendously positive effects and the nation that adopted it the most effectively only lost the competition due to every other superpower in the world allying against it.

Fascism is not communism. When it was implemented the economy boomed, contrast this with communism, which destroys economies. Families are free to raise their children how they like, businesses are owned by the individual, not the state, and you are free to practice the religion of your choice. This false equivalency needs to end.

Perhaps this idiocy is the entire reason the Legion in New Vegas is so ridiculous. It's a pathetic pantomime of what the writer thinks fascism is, and it ends up actually coming out as communist because that's really what people in the West are taught to conflate fascism with, despite the two political philosophies being in direct opposition to each other when they were implemented.

I think it's more like
When i was at my absolute worst being 50~ lbs overweight i could manage 6 and 30.

Alternatively you can send your daughter to die in a fire along with everyone trapped in a building see
archive.is/jmjEH

Families are free to raise their children normally, something they don't have now.
It's a big difference, raising degenerates in LGBT communes was prohibited.

But that not a Republican tendency, it has nothing to do with it.

I know it's a meme at this point, but watch the Zeitgeist docs.
Religion sure did have a use, but it doesn't anymore.

t. zuckerberg, the new Jewish-born god with Facebook being both the Son and Holy Spirit

I'm a malnourished twigman, and I can do 10 and 30.
This is very bad.

That's great for any invading force or an arsonist though.

Could you reword that?

4 pushups is beyond retarded. I don't know anyone who would have trouble with that, and I know some spergs.

DELET THIS

I don't know man, girls are stupidly weak.
My girlfriend likes to act tough and like she could protect herself from troglodytes, but I could break her wrist with one hand.

I was alluding to Justin's trudeau brilliant thought on
And the human rights card, either EU or UN one, which prohibits death penalty from being used under any circumstance forever, so let's say you go to shoot up a school (not that i endorse that idea) you magdump untill police arrive, at which point you throw away your guns, stand with arms raised and smug grin, because they can't shoot you, nor the death penalty can be given to you (banned forever, even though you've killed like a 100~ children)
Families of shot brutally murdered by fascist cops terrorists peaceful immigrants could sue government for human rights violations
Pic related is more ebin human rights.

Like I said, it's a good short term solution but not a good long term one. I fully acknowledge it's success and how the economy boomed so much Germany was deemed a risk for other countries.
But it did not manage to gather enough power to defend itself or use it wisely enough to prevent a war it couldn't win.
Regardless of how good it was, ultimately it failed.

Except if it goes against the morals that the state enforces. Or if the army needs recruits.
But regulated and taxed by the state to a degree that it borders ownership.
Like judaism? :^)

They may be ideologically oposed, but the means to achieve them are mostly the same. Put someone in the government to enforce a series of laws that regulate how the country is run usually using force, and putting an heavy emphasizes on the collective. Then control the industry (directly or indirectly) to make sure it meets the needs of the individuals and not necessarily their wants.

It doesn't anymore because in theory we are now capable of discerning right from wrong on our own.
In practice, you have people arguing how moral it is to punch someone for their political beliefs, so I'd argue otherwise.
Besides, you'll always have religion of some kind. It's part of human nature to congregate towards a greater figure that can solve your problems and no figure is more powerfull or greater than a God.
Trump being the God Emperor or Kek are worshipped after all. Even if ironically, it's for the same reasons.

Don't go making plans like that, user. A guy that kills 100 children and lands in jail is gonna spend his whole time wishing he was killed, seeing what the other inmates will do to them.

And that's assuming you make it there. If you're too slow at dropping your guns, you will be shot anyway since you look like a threat to the life of the officer.

Let's also not forget that cops are still human too.
In my country, there was a faggot that decided it was a brilliant idea to beat a cop to death.
What happened later was that at night, 20 cops without their uniform show up around him and wouldn't you know it? The guy was so clumsy he tripped over 53 times, all of them hitting the sidewalk with his face.
Of course he died, having the head look more like a crushed peanut, but hey, 20 cops were there and they all testify that this piece of shit was drunk of his ass and kept smashing his own head on the pavement.

europarl.europa.eu/charter/pdf/text_en.pdf

He'd get a solitary, like Breivik.
I'm not making any plans like that, (I'd rather become like Ibbi Pippi, being an MtF trannsexual (no hormones or operation) lesbian, and go around suing lefties for discrimination.
I'm just saying that human rights are a tool of enslavement through entitlement
The non-discrimination one, article 21 is my favorite, because you could apply for a job as a translator for a language you don't know, get rejected and call discrimination.

If you arent into femininity enough that you cant look past a penis you might be the one whos gay

You can work out and practice jewjitsu all day long, but if the entire neighborhood chimps out on you, you're fucked.

>equality between men and women must be ensured in all areas, including employment, work and pay
What?
Ohhhh.
lel
Tactical Downie SWAT teams when?

If you're worse than monkeys…

They mean that they should get the same oportunities for employment, work the same amount of hours and be paid the same.
There's nothing inherently wrong there, as long as there's equality in all of those at the same time.

FOR FUCK'S SAKE, WHY

They won't discrimate based on this. They'll say that a downie can't follow orders or isn't as physically fit as everyone else. They don't have to use genetics or disabilities, just say a command and have the downie ignore it.

Whenever you want them in EU.
I wish i was a lawyer, I'd go around making insane lawsuits against national institutions to brussels for Article 21 violations.
Oh, and article 19 prevents all the muslims and africans from being deported, because

Like you fags aren't even trying.

Threadly reminder

How can you claim that it's not a good long term solution with no evidence to support that position? The closest analogue to fascism would be Imperialism and that obviously can work in the long term as a successful state.

Every state has the ability to conscript its citizens, and every state during war time enforces that, whether it is a fascist, communist, or democratic state. If you're arguing against that you're not arguing against fascism you're arguing against having a state altogether.

Taxes were lower and regulation was less in fascistic systems than they are in democracies, while of course in communism the companies are directly controlled by the state. Your argument here actually favors fascism if you believe less of these things is better.

And your last point is equally asinine. Every state enforces its laws. Every state regulates how the country is run and enforces that through state power, the difference is in the methodology used to do so. Do you really believe that democracies don't implement their laws through force? The only criticisms you've been able to offer are broad criticisms that can be applied to any state apparatus, and are not unique to fascism.

One more time: Fascism is a unique system. separate from both democracy and communism. Stop trying to turn it into a different form of communism, it's not, it never was, and never will be. Pic related.

Sage for offtopic.

Because of the long list of long term fascist nations, coupled with lack of proof that a state controlled industry actually works for long term, something we do have evidence as being terrible thanks to gommunism.

Having the ability to doesn't mean they can use it. Several EU countries can't just draft people by force anymore, especially due to the social strains that creates and all the migrants that leave your country to dodge the draft.

I'm not arguing about quantity of regulation but rather what type of regulation. It's important to regulate the quality of what's produced so you don't end up with an industry specialized in cheap inneficient bootlegs, but it stops there. Controlling directly how much profit they can make or how competitive they can be is disatrous at long term and that's something that happens both in fascism and communism.

Yes. Democracies enforce their laws through debate and public opinion. People don't follow the law because the cops will beat their ass if they don't, they do so because they agree it's the right thing to do, and some laws aren't even enforced all the time when that's clearly not the right thing for that specific situation.

There's less need for violence or force in Democracy because the idea is to work with the people and leave those that refuse to do so alone, not have the people work for you and beat everyone that just wants to do his thing.

That's because you're choosing to interpret them as broad and not actually thinking about them that much.

Democracy has lasted for way longer than any fascist regime. Even Republics or Monarchies lasted longer. This is not broad criticism, it's history, it's a fact.
Fascism requires regulation of the industry, specifically how competitive they are with each other. This is not something Democracy does directly, with the sole exception of cartelization for obvious reasons.

Alright last time. None of what you're saying applies to fascism. None. What industries were regulated and controlled in National Socialist Germany in a greater degree than they are regulated and controlled in a democratic system? Go ahead, find me the examples. You won't, because there aren't any. You're attempting to say that fascism interferes with capitalism and the free market, which it doesn't, because you can't get past the idea that any system that isn't democracy doesn't allow for freedom.

I would love to continue this discussion further so feel free to open a topic on Holla Forums, since this is veering totally into that realm rather than discussing New Vegas. So open a thread there and I will happily continue the debate, otherwise, enough thread derailment.

Sage for offtopic.

Was the OP blind to the past 200 fucking years of western civilisation? Fascists seem to think the state is a tool to be manipulated and always forget it's made up of individuals who wish to pursue their own interests. They seem to believe everyone is susceptible to subversion, but suddenly when they're in power this stops happening.

Reminder that mercantilism is infinitely better than free market.
Because not only it denies retarded lolberts
but also ensures every country does what it does best, as local products are untaxed, while all imports from outside are at a reasonable rate of 10%
Compared to ebin free market where you pay 25% vat and 40% income because as a result of apple/general motors moving to china you now have to deal with unemployed people
not to mention china doesn't play by the western rules as every product and idea brought for chinese to assemble, becomes an intellectual property of China and its people retroactively.
Huawei or Xiaomi wouldn't have existed if they couldn't steal technology from dumb (((gwailo)))

For what his worth, Fascism in Italy,during the Great Depression, saved private propriety from being devoured by Banks (who thanks to the crisis got filthy rich by aquiring industrial stocks,etc.) by privatizing the Banks, take control of the stocks and thanks to economic manouvres put Italy back up instead of getting fucked internationally.Regulations were mostly bare,just don't treat workers like filth, competition should be based on the quality of the product not by lowering your price to nothing to destory everyone else and then rise the price creating a monopoly.
Armaguerra is a good example, since they bested Beretta and others as the official semi automatic rifle of the italian military. Scotti, independent weapon makers also, won the first contest.

The system "industrial statal partecipation" was kept as model even after Fascism and it was reason Italy boomed without any kind of particular resources,colony,etc.
Ironically,after it was abolished, Italy started going down in the sinkhole (Soros made quite a lot of money out of it), bigger corporations aquired stocks from the State, and usually or sold them or transferred them to third world to pay less fucking over the workers and contributing to Italy deindustrialization.

user, please read this statement again

That's right, the filthy Goyim doesn't need no faith. Money is the only thing he should care about.

oy gevalt! Money is useless, unless you buy things, may i interest you in a loan? You can finally afford that car that will make women wet when they see it!

Just so you know, I'm greatly enjoying this thread since I'm learning so much just from researching things to prove you wrong.
And on the other hand, it's a bit ironic that you have to discuss this on Holla Forums instead of Holla Forums, where I'd be banned several posts ago for not kowtowing with the Party.

Weapon and ammo production were mostly controlled by the state, for obvious reasons, but you also have Hermann Göring Works when they nationalized iron production. I'm mostly reading here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany and seeing things like:
"by 1934 the Third Reich had mandated a reorganization of all companies and trade associations and placed them “under the >control of the state.”[56]"
or

It's actually amazing how badly they ran this thing and how much they not only controlled things but even contradicted themselves.
The best part is reading that Hitler considered the economical side of politics of secondary importance, that the ideals were far more important and his economic plan was to have no plan at all.

Is that enough examples for you to convince your thick head that Fascism requires complete and absolute control over the market in order to influence society because they fundamentally can't argue their case with anyone logically or rationnaly?

I like New Vegas. I like it a lot. It's one of my favorite games.
And I am tired of talking about the Legion.
I'm not saying you and the others in this thread can't or shouldn't talk about it.
I just don't understand why it's always the go-to conversation about New Vegas.
Everything about it has already been discussed to death.

Of course Mr. Schekelstein, where do I sign?

Also from there:
No control, uh? No heavy state influence in the work force, uh?

Look at all that freedom to do business as you please, uh? Sounds like a lovely place to open a new shop or invest in a new factory!

Right below the star of david pentagram pyramid dollar sign, my fellow goy.

Man I wish.

...

Man I wish gommies didn't taint everything.

You could not possibly be more wrong.

...

...

It's superior to Mass Effect, Fallout 3/4 and Oblivion\Skyrim both in rog mechanics and storytelling. It's actually a pretty cool game.

So you're saying that if cops refused to do their job, you'd go out on the street committing arson and robbery because you don't see anything wrong with that.
A big fat truncheon is the only thing preventing you from descending to nigger levels of savagery?

That is the case for some people. Others have morals.
Opportunity only unmasks a thief, doesn't create one, i had plenty of opportunities for successful theft throughout my life, yet i never committed it.
Some people (assuming niggers are people for the sake of argument) need a constant surveilance and a threat of whipping to stop them from chimping out, others do not.
Some people are inherently good and some are not.
Assuming all people are good is fucking retarded because world's history is there to prove otherwise.

House is apolitical in the worst possible way–he assumes that his complete authority is the starting point of all possible futures. He doesn't care about anyone but himself. Even his supposedly high-minded ideas about kickstarting space travel is just another way for him to expand his influence.
Why do you think he's effectively immortal? If he's not going to be around to see it, if it can't benefit him personally, he doesn't care. He only really plays the "I'm doing good!" card when you're about to kill him. All the good in the world doesn't matter unless it can serve his own interests. He's taken the most banal instincts of self-preservation and self-interest, and elevates them to a cult when it's convenient to do so.

Yes, if cops didn't enforce the law I would be doing whatever the fuck I want, including punching you in the face. Thinking people follow laws because they think it's the right thing to do is naive, and there are numerous moral justifications for breaking laws in certain scenarios like beating the living shit out of someone who raped your daughter or something.

Sure, but not everyone is a criminal either. A lot of people understand the societal consequences of living among thieves and murders and chooses instead not to behave like that.

The difference between the role of police in Democracy and Fascism is that in Democracy, police protects the citizens from those that don't comply with the law, while in Fascism, it protects the state from those that don't contribute to it.

We certainly need cops since not everyone cares for the law, but thankfully cops are not gonna start beating the fuck out of you for shitposting on an imageboard instead of making bullets in a factory since you live in a Democracy.

He is a corpse inside a coffin in a basement of his own casino. He has no personnal interests, it's pure philanthropy. Everyone that lives around him gains more out of his actions than him himself does.

Thanks for proving my point, nigger.

You have no point, I'm calling you a naive retard for thinking people follow laws just because it's the right thing to do, if anything it disproves your point

They're either thirteen years old, or contrarians. Or both. Then there's people who slept through the game or never played it at all and don't understand the story and setting.

There is absolutely nothing redeeming about "philanthropy." People who do it don't (or don't want to) understand that the best thing to do would be to create a situation in which their precious "philanthropy" is unnecessary, because people don't need it anymore.
Anyway, yes, House isn't serving his biological functions. He's not dining on the finest foods or fucking the prettiest whore in the wasteland. But he can't anyway, so why does that matter? What he is doing is exerting real power in an effort to serve his own ego. That's all he's ever done, in fact–before the war, he didn't fuck women. He's probably asexual. He's been on an ego trip his entire life. Trading basic biological hedonism for the hedonism of remaking the world to your exact personal specifications is not altruism, it's the opposite.

I agree, House was a fun faction to fight for. I liked taking out the brotherhood.

Pic related, same voice as the, "winner."

*remaking his private property

Niggers arent people, idiot.

Police in democracy also protects the state from those who would like to make it serve the people again instead of the state existing on the citizen's tab just so it self-perpetuates
Democracy is always in danger when the far-left doesn't win despite heavy rigging involved.
I'd much rather live under fascism than in democracy, where plutocrats buy a winner through media, social engineering and common education which only makes kids more retarded and prepped for being perfect nobodies.

Very nice.

Right back at you!

In New Vegas' perspective, I'd rather be a citizen in a Legion Territory than in NCR
Because in NCR everything is stifled by corruption and because of retarded laws gun control people can't even defend themselves, endings slides for Goodsprings and Primm mention heavy taxation that makes people abandon their homes or barely make ends meet, thanks democracy!

It's his property, niggers who don't agree to his terms can leave and try in Westside or Freeside, funny how that worked out for them (^:

NCR sluts and Wild card losers should leave…

Let's not pretend he has any legitimate claim on New Vegas. It's his because he took it, and it's his only as long as he can defend it.

Raul tells you about how, before the war, Mr. House wouldn't fuck his starlet girlfriend, and it was a little scandalous.
Also, his pod hasn't been opened, ever. If you open it, he says this–even if you walk away after opening it, he's going to slowly due from bacterial infection.
He saved part of it. And he did it because he liked the city itself, the image of it–not out of any kind of personal care for any of the residents. Why do you think it was a dead, uninhabited city when the NCR first showed up? He kept his survival a secret. It's all about him. It always has been.

*slowly die from bacterial infection

This is the most wronger than wrong thing I've read all week, and that's saying a lot. What are they teaching you in school these days?

Volunteering also serves your ego, because you have a hormonal rush whenever you hear those you've helped say "thank you".
But prove me wrong, go around helping people without accepting or expecting as little as a "thank you"

Epic revisionism.
They found new Vegas unharmed by radiation and basically intact, inside were nigger tribes which house either reshaped into the families or gave them the boot.

Some people, the great majority in civilized countries, follows the law because they know the purpose behind each law. They don't need force to stay civilized, they see inherent value in not being a society of criminals.
A minority of people however either has problems understanding that concept or doesn't care either way and that's why we still need cops.

Notice that I never said EVERYONE obeys the law out of their own nature, neither did I said we don't need cops.

My initial point was the need for force in democracy or fascism to enforce policies and laws, where a lot of things fascism gets away with are only possible because of liberal use of law enforcement where as democracy frowns upon that kind of thing.
My second point is that your a savage nigger that believes the world is against him and punching people is a valid way of life, the only thing stopping you being fascist cop pigs.

You mean like creating a city with enough security and facilities that you can have your own business inside without fearing exterior forces? :^)

What if he believes his "personal specifications" are the best for the world?
What if all he wants is to create a safe haven for people so they aren't exposed to the savagery of the wastes and civilization can blossom? Maybe that's his "personal specification", but you have yet to specify how any of that is bad.

In fact, I'd like to hear what you consider a good example of altruism, considering you seem to think that any altruistic attitude is just to feed your own ego.

Yes, democracy in this age is in shambles due to the degradation of the individual. Nobody places much value in themselves nor considers that their vote counts for much and not many people care enough about democracy to thwart the attempts at fucking with it. The dead seem to care a bit more, though.

Everyone always says this until they do live under fascism with a leader whose opinions don't particularly align with theirs. Once you reach that position and you start thinking of ways to get him out, you find that the best part of democracy is the ability to remove bad leaders every 4-5 years, ence why Trump was elected.

He defended it from about 50 nukes, I'd say he more than earned it. Anyone else would own a crater instead.

He did it because he needed a base of operations and New Vegas was not only the place he lived in but also a very large city with plenty of resources and facilities to work with.
It wasn't? He civilized 3 different tribes for inhabitants.

And in any case, like everyone is telling you, there's always Freeside. That's what New Vegas would look like without House, and the fact he allows it to exist instead of exterminating or anexing it proves very well that he's not the evil conquistador you're painting him as. He's fine with letting anyone live the lives they want, just not at his expenses.
Or do you seriously believe that anyone is entitled to live under his protection (this includes the buildings he protected) as well as use all the electrical infrastructures he saved, repaired and built all for free?

One of the devs said in an interview that Yes-Man's reprogramming line was to show that he would only follow what you say, rather than just doing what anyone tells him, which was how he was programmed to respond before. That's why Benny was using him, too.

Why did you link to me? Who were you quoting?

Dude which part did you no understood of "virtual reality"? His brain is wired up to a network! He is literally everywhere like dr. Braun in F3!
The only good leader who is come close or goes beyond House is the Master. You just jelous at him because of your leftypol thinking… Clean up bro!

You mean Tyrant, not Dictator. You should know what these words mean before you berate others for their lack of knowledge.

They have 0 Roman principles, everything about the legion is based on the Hollywood myth of Rome.

Considering they share their resources amongst everyone, that they get their salary directly from the equivalent of the state and they insist in tearing down hierarchy in favour of hard work, it's quite close to gobumism.

I don't see him attacking the NCR to get them to get the fuck out of there and I don't see him forcing anyone to join him at point blank.
The only time he uses force is in self defense and since the damn is so damn important for electrical power but so many factions want to control it and fuck with Vegas, he has no choice but to intervene.

Freeside exists and lives freely. House doesn't affect them except for being fukken awesome and making them jealous, but otherwise they are the ones choosing to stay outside.

Honestly from a few standpoints you could kind of see where the Legion was coming from even with all the shit cut, but because they rushed them to be cartoon bad guys we'll never get to see their true story.
If I remember correctly the Legion was supposed to be a complete opposite of everything the NCR was, but it didn't mean they were the bad guys, rather a civilization still living in peace without the government bureaucracy and corruption the NCR had, I could be wrong entirely though, been a long time since I saw what the Legion was supposed to be in New Vegas.

Not at the expense of the people you're helping. The personal dynamics of an individual's psychology don't trump the material reality of what's happening in the external world.
New Vegas was a ruin that was occasionally raided. People didn't live there. Read the comic, or talk to Benny about it. Maybe you're talking about Freeside?
Yet you complain when players apply this same logic to House by killing him and taking New Vegas for whatever other end they desire. What's the difference?

He didn't "own" the city before the bombs fell. That's what I'm getting at. He took it by force afterward, when it was easy. "Owning cities" is not something that happens in any civilization that's worth anything.
He only did that after the NCR showed up in the Mojave. He needed people there to run the casinos, so he could "trade with" the NCR. Given that all this was done within Benny's lifetime, New Vegas sat dead and uninhabited for probably around a century.
Do you really not see what I'm getting at, with a comment like that? "Allowing it to exist." House has the means to take what he wants, but that doesn't make him right–and killing him so that the city can be run like every other city ever (i.e., by the people who live there) is at least as legitimate as House's squatting.

Oh, I didn't realize you were talking about House going full 2Dwaifu. I thought you meant him getting actual, real-world, biological sexual satisfaction. My mistake.
This is the funniest thing I've read today. Thank you.

That is incorrect, self is the highest value a human has, truth, family, civilization, nation don't exist.
It's only about consumption and hedonism.
When your hedonistic balance comes out negative (as in, up until time you measured, you had more suffering than pleasure) just euthanize yourself.

Alternatively you have delusional libshits, who thing "no value is higher than human lives" so if you tell them nignogs in africa are poor, starving and at war, taking 100 000 of them, with let's say, 30 commiting acts of terrorism in which they kill 5000 people, leaves you with a net gain of human life of 994 970
LMAO, that's hilarious compared to coups and how much damage you can do over 5 years, how many laws you can pass that'll keep "yourguys" in charge forever
Now what if vote counting is done by the government faceless officials, how do you vote in good guys then.
Mob rule doesn't work, because not only mob has a short memory but is easy to manipulate.
also
It was a result of a republican system, he lost popular vote probably due to illegals voting.
But also due to NPC's thinking that Hillary is in any way capable of being a president

...

From whom? Who did he kill to take over the city? Who was it's previous owner that House took from at gunpoint?

Considering his "civilization" is yet a single city, I don't think the same rules apply here.

And yet he doesn't take Freeside for himself.
Letting people live their life how they want and offering safety that he bought with his army makes it right.

It's not. Someone is gonna have to oversee the city just like everywhere else, but New Vegas has the option of having a leader that can't get corrupted by money, sex or power and controls a robotic army in real time.
You can let anyone else do that job, but why if it's an inferior choice?

You misunderstood. Nobody believes they have enough value to influence the world around them. Changing their own routine often sounds like an insurmountable task, how could they change the views of the public?
They can actually do all of that, most people just don't believe they can.

That end up with thousands of dead people in violent revolutions and several years of chaotic anarchy in a country, what an option.
How many laws did Obama pass in 8 years to keep Hillary there? How easy is it for Trump to repel Obamacare now?

Irrelevant, the popular vote is not what decides the president, the electoral college exists for a reason. Democracy isn't just tallying votes and choosing the highscore, there's more to it than that and Trump apparently understood this.

Not the may coup.
All civilian casualties came from people who were dumb enough to watch the shootout from their balconies.
Then it's not democracy but a different system.
Democracy is a mob rule where 5 niggers have more impact than historian and a nuclear physicist

Initially, nobody. But he retains individual control over it by force.
City-states are not historically unusual. One man claiming an entire city as his private property is.
So what? He's a secret altruist, because his laissez-faire authoritarianism has a geographical boundary? If he owned Freeside, you'd just talk about he doesn't do the same thing in North Vegas instead, or Hoover Dam.
He's not a totalitarian, I'll give him that.
Of course, but the choice of who does that will be in the hands of more than just one person. Even the shittiest government doesn't treat a city as a single piece of property owned by a single person.
House doesn't "lead" New Vegas. He owns it. This is what I mean when I said that he's apolitical in the worst possible way.
Because people's lives matter, and having some kind of say in the decisions of the place where you live is important. Even if someone else would be less "efficient" (which is the go-to argument of the type of authoritarian who worships Silicon Valley these days, and would worship Mr. House) or whatever nonsense you want to appeal to, that's less important than people having some measure of influence in the decisions that affect them. "What touches all should be decided by all," etc.

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Anedotal evidence, sorry. I have the "25th of April revolution" in my country where not a single life was lost (except a guy that fell of a tractor) but that's not how revolutions usually go.
Better examples include Egypt during the Arab Spring or Venezuela.

A simpler example you might want to use instead (since it's a bit more funny):
Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep voting for dinner.

However that's being pessimistic and looking at the worst pats of things. You could just as easily say that Monarchy is about a strong leadership like it's about literal cronyism backed by the church, that fascism is about maximizing productivity for the greater good or enforced legal remunerated slavery.
It's important to pick things for the advantages they get you but you gotta prepare for worst case scenario. I have no faith in any political system, they all eventually fail one way or another, democracy just happens to be the easiest one to correct.

So he is defending his property and letting other people enjoy that security. What a fucking bastard.

New Vegas isn't a city-state, not yet anyways. It's literally just a city, city-states have control of the nearby land as well, something House is striving for.
And in any case, the casinos each belong to every family, as does the rest of the buildings. Only the Lucky 38 and that nearby vault belong to him.

But he doesn't. You're talking in hypotheticals like he's a conqueror of lands, forcing people to join him by force and stealing their land when he does no such thing. The land he owns belonged to no one, he set up a perimeter and started defending it, thus it makes it his land. Do you understand the concept of private property and how you earn it?

You say that like it's a good thing. So instead of one person that can be bribed with money or sex, there will be several who can be manipulated or even just bicker around and do nothing? Why is this any better than a robotic overlord?

Each casino is owned by each family, etc, etc. He owns the Lucky 38, the Vault and his army. He is trading security for taxation and loyalty, a fair trade considering the local fauna. He leads because he gets shit done, because he can provide security and electrical power.

CURRENT FUCKING YEAR

Did you knew that the leaders of each tribe actually talk with House about the problems in the city? Sounds a lot like representation to me…

It's his own robotic army and it's his own infrastructure that brings power and safety to New Vegas. Everyone else has the right to buy those things from House but why would they get a say in how to use those things if they belong to House? Build your own robotic army if you want one for yourself.

To fix democracy you need to undo 12+ years of effort to make them retarded, make them somehow realize that all they were taught is wrong and their elected saviors they identify with are corrupt crooks.
Not an easy thing to do when there's also media, internet and television to keep people dumbed down nigh-permanently.

This thread has gone way too far.
New Vegas was a shit game made by a shit developer.
Stop putting so much effort into this.

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That's actually exactly what Caesar did. And its the main reason why the faction is called "Caesars Legion" and not "Roman Legion". This is why he was so unpopular with the senate for almost all of his career.

In all honesty, I don't actually see anything wrong with a "cult of personality" after the guy's dead (or unofficially while alive). Gives men a tangible, touchable source to learn from and live up too. That said, enforcing one is redundant, since men find their own personal heroes to emulate anyways, like Napoleon, Hitler, Genghis Khan, etc. etc.

factually incorrect, you couldnt go to certain churches and business was nationalized
north korea

STOP, THIS IS FACTUALLY WRONG at least in the case of nazi germany

there is no lib left ending, partly because the lib left dosnt exist

Have you even played the game, dipshit? Bad Independent ending is blatantly stated to be anarchy throughout the Mojave.

And you're ignoring the fact that he set up the casinos for the express purpose of bringing in money for himself, so he could keep doing whatever he wants at everyone else's expense. You understand that operating casinos isn't done out of charity, right?
I guess that's true. It's not much different, though.
They "belong" to the families so long as Mr. House gets his cut, and so long as they never go against him. House owns all the land in effect, and his robot army means he effectively controls all public spaces.
He didn't "conquer" anything, but he owns it and controls it in a way that's even worse–he wanted a community that he could treat like a commodity. And that's basically what he got. His laissez-faire attitude was necessary for people to come there. It's not because he's magnanimous.
I think part of what complicates things is House's near-immortality. In any other place, House could have his fun for a few decades at most, then he would die and the people living there would come up with something else. House's longevity, and his robot army, prevent history from taking its course.
It is. Questions of action, where time is necessary, are often better handled by one person, or by a small group. Questions of policy, where urgency isn't vital, aren't. You want to imagine that House is a hero, so you can put your trust in him. But heroes don't exist. People can do heroic things, but everyone is flawed, and in the real world those flaws aren't endearing. The kind of people who go with House are the kind of people who desperately want some messiah to come save them and put things right–it won't ever happen, and it can't, because that's not the way the world ever was or will be. Each individual is best at judging what he wants, and the best way to govern a community is to get as broad a group of viewpoints as you can, so you can more accurately judge what's best for the community.
Why can't you imagine a decision-making process that doesn't automatically equate to corruption and in-fighting?
What if House goes insane one day? Or decides he doesn't like a particular tribe because they smell funny? The problem with one man in absolute power is that you're complete subject to his particular whims and idiosyncrasies. House isn't perfect. Nobody is.
What if I don't want to make that trade? This just brings us back to the legitimacy issue.
He doesn't "lead" at all. He barely interacts with the outside world. The most interaction he had was when he recruited the tribes to create the community; after that, he promptly stopped talking. And he certainly doesn't mix with the rest of New Vegas' residents.
You know that "everyone" includes you, right? Does your life not matter? Do you hate yourself that much?
Asking the king's favor isn't really "representation." Real representation is having a share in the power, not just being able to beg your master for something.

We're going to have get some sauces in here, since I don't know for sure either. I know the Krupp family didn't have their business taken over, the rule was just that they couldn't provide arms, armor, or other such supplies to the Third Reich's enemies, and they were a very massive business operating in Germany. I have also heard rumors that freemasonry was kicked right out, so I think the "certain churches" were banned bit holds up.

Not saying it's easy, but all you're describing is something that should be done regardless of who the head honcho is or how he rules.
But compare that with the idea of going against law enforcement and the army, literally risking your life, to overthrow a dictator.

It's still fun to argue with Anons about this shit. Obsidian did the best job they could and while the Legion where an SS uniform short of "baby eating nazi vampires", they still make for a good topic of discussion.
Shame we never got to see the settlements behind their camp.

You're putting all your eggs in one basket. If the glorious leader ever slips up, there goes social cohesion off the window.
Also, read The Prince. A nation that heavily relies on some famous figure head is very hard to conquer or infiltrate but easy to rule and dominate afterwards. As soon as you remove the leader, there's nobody else with authority to rally everyone else.

It's one thing to have heroes and role models to follow, it's another to trust them and only them to lead your life without having a backup plan.

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Wrong, Juche is human rights taken to logical extreme, enslavement through entitlement.
From official book on Juche, published by North Korea
In addition they're a democratic people's republic. (^:

There are values higher than human life (like truth, justice, family, nation or civilization to name a few), if everyone's life is equally valuable as you say, not human is worth more than another, so they're interchangeable, because who cares if it's a stranger, or my mother, they're of equal value, unless it's one's own life, meaning no vile act is too vile to justify extending your own life.

What an horrible person! Trying to make a business on land he is securing with his army? What a rascal!
Right. Securitrons roam New Vegas and the surrounding land, gathering people and forcing them inside the casinos where they are forced to gamble. Those that win get a shot in the head.
All so House can keep… Improving the life of every New Vegas resident?

So you understand the basic concept of personal property then. That you only own whatever you can defend, and that by paying to House and being loyal to him, they get to own their own patch of land.

So he didn't took anything by force. He did the horrible despicable thing of creating an environment suitable for human life and business and then invited someone else to run the show for him.
Instead of having Securitrons aiming at their head and forcing them to join like… Commodities?

You mean like handling the nearby situation of Hover Damn being handled by House while the affaird of the city and each casino being handled by each family? You mean like what already happens?

I actually don't very much like that he wanted the BoS dead. Those guys just need to get out more and see other people, not outright extermination.

That would be Caesar.
The kind of people that side with House are the ones that reach a very large and successful city and recognize the merit of keeping it running. The fact that he asks for your help instead of demanding it and making a very sweet deal on top of that just makes him all the cooler.

Thinking of worst case scenario, and I dunno if you noticed, but we're talking about putting humans in charge of decisions here. That sounds like something damn stupid when you have the equivalent of a sentient AI to rule over you instead.

Except if you don't like it, you can leave the city. You don't own it so you don't have the right to take it away from him. If you don't like how a bar smells, you don't overthrow the bartender and take it for yourself, you find somewhere and let the other bar to bankrupt from lack of clients.

You find a cozy spot in Freeside :^)

The Securitron army BEEPs to disagree.

They get all the power they want to run their own casino or to solve disputes among each other. What more do you want?
That they be able to choose targets for the Securitrons? Declare war on other factions? Decide how best to spend the electricity they get?

I didn't say that. You don't need to believe in that kind of equality in order to believe that people should have some control over their own lives. Putting it all in the hands of one man is the worst possible option.

Keep strawmanning, nigger. The problem is that he exerts total control within the Strip, nothing else.
"Property" is not possession. "Property" presupposes a society that voluntarily upholds rules about who has access to, and rights over, certain objects. Stealing a loaf of bread does not make it my property.
It's the same instinct. Caesar is actually better, because he at least understands politics and (sort of) history.
House is human. Play Deus Ex.
The short version is that Vegas could have been restored by others, and could be maintained by others. House doesn't have any special magical qualities that make him the only, or best, ruler.
I thought you only owned "what you could defend"? :^)
The Securitrons don't have social relationships with anyone. Leading is a social activity. It's providing a vision, and convincing the community to follow it. House doesn't do that.

Reminder that legion is the best ideological fit for a new society in a new world, but has extremely fragile foundations. His whole faction is basically a gamble. Supposedly if he gets his hands on the dam, he'll make Vegas into his Rome and the legion will be become more sedentary and civilized. But if he dies at any point before the legion is properly "civilized" to where they can run themselves without him it is bound for collapse.

yes and? anarchy is not a left wing belief

In The Nazi-Sozi, Goebbels basically distinguished between private and personal property and talked about the nationalization of major industries. In the 25 Point Program, points 10 and 11 and 13 to 18 deal with economic interventionism and not a single one lends support to capitalism. The Nazi politics mirrored that, as they confiscated a lot of property and de facto owned a lot of what was private in a formal sense.

Gotta love the autism that New Begas threads bring.

House tolerates the existence of the dregs of society if it serves his aims. Caesar enslaves them, NCR tries to enforce order but will be ultimately corrupted by them and Yes man doesn't give a shit. Nipton was a corrupt town which give haven to all sorts of criminals and drug addicts and the mayor was planning on selling slaves to the legion in the first place.

Yeah the Legion is brutal, but Legion lands also don't have raiders in them. If you seek to be a good person (by Legion standards) then they'll leave you alone whereas a criminal doesn't care.

You're fucking retarded, just stop. There's a difference between a min-anarchist libertarian and a pink haired SJW who would die in days in actual anarchy.

anarchy, the belief that people should be able to do what they want and be free, is violently at odds with all other left wing beliefs.

Anarchy is a stateless society. Left wing communal hippyfags and right wing ancaps both want it, but for different reasons.

Whatever the case…

They are libertarian, genius

Wow yeah google is really hard to use

you're trying way too hard

Yes, the place that he defends by his own means and the place that anyone is free to leave if they disagree as well as the place where people went to volutarily.
He did not stole land or resources from anyone.

Like a society composed of 3 tribes and one egomaniacal proto-ai, that decide who has access to New Vegas and who doesn't?

Compared to someone that actually lived said history and has a better reference point?

Yes, it's called NCR and it's trash.
He also doesn't have any specific problems that make him the worst or even a bad ruler. Instead there are a lot of problems that aren't even a thing for him that won't happen ever.

And House can defend his city both from external threats as well from uppity faggots that think they know best what to do with this months supply of Ambrosia.

Speak for yourself, faggot. Some of them are quite the cuties. Besides, Viktor would like a bullet with you.
>I only have so much shitposting time, so it might be a while before I can reply again.
I'm leaving work now, probably will only shitpost tomorrow too

Yes, and?

Once they reach the west coast and have no one else to fight, the army upkeep will crush their economy or murder their own people. It's a ticking bomb armed with machetes.

AHAHAHAHAH

half of those come with rules attached and therefor are not anarchy, and some are incomprehensible

They have to keep fighting because they are at the moment a mobile army with no roots and no new resources, slaves, and soldiers. Caesar said once he has Vegas he will try to civilize the Legion. Whether it's implied that means less militarization we dont know

True anarchy is retarded and can't exist and anarcho-whatever isn't build upon actual anarchy.

Why does every single Fallout thread turn into Holla Forums?

because its an rpg with factions

I don't understand Anarcho-Communism/Syndicalism. I thought the basis of Anarchism was the abolition of the state. Communism is the seizure of the state. How can the two exist as one entity?

Because factions are well-written and have parallels with real life situations.

There is no point. I think its just college kids who think communist is just gibmedats and they can smoke weed all day and not get gulaged.

Lefties argue that first you try to get to socialism where workers seize the memes of production. This supposedly leads to communism which is the equivalent of hippy communes on an industrial level with weed and sunshine. They conveniently forget this inevitably leads to an oppressive state. It's very utopian

no part of it is anarchic though, neither the seizing nor the commune

Well, to be honest that's what Soviet Agents told hippies they funded.

You are putting more thought into anarcho-communism than anarcho-communists. I advise you to stop for the sake of your own sanity.

Anarchy doesn't mean lawlessness. It means without a government. It also doesn't mean these ideas make any sense

ABSOLUTELY SUBVERSIVE

how would you get people into communes without forcing them (aka becoming a government)?

They all completely agree about everything.

It's supposed to be voluntary on paper. Even though it's an ideology that requires everyone to follow it. And after all if it's the "perfect" ideology, then you must push people into following it. Even when it's against their will. That's why it mutates into a highly authoritarian regime. And this user is right

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The only good thing about New Vegas is the mod that lets you play as an adorable murderous little loli with a chainsaw.

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And the majority don't. That's why Laws exist, dumb dumb. How Law enforcement is managed is another manner, but Laws and Enforcers of the Law are a necessity to a working society.

Lolno. Police in Democratic societies today have zero obligation to protect you, just to uphold the law, fuck who gets harmed by it. There is no incentive for the alternatives, that's how it functions.

No, not really. The way police work in Fascist society is a bit different from the way they work in other societies, although it's fundamentally the same; Enforce the Law. The difference is the intent of those in charge. In the case of Fascism, the intent is usually to do what's best for the Citizens/Nation.

Dude, the Legion troopers fuck themselves as much as they fuck girls to the point that they wear what is basically an armored dress that tries to be manly. Makes it easier for butt piracy.
They are fucking gay, this is why they would fuck traps, they already have the armor for it, now they need the underage androgynous twink.

Why are there three fallout threads in the catalogue?

I've wondered about this as well. I love the enclave, but since they're the remnants of the U.S governments top actors and politicians, wouldn't a large portion of the Enclave be jewish?

The NCR is more like Rome than the Legion.

The legion is more like the Caliphate.

Imagine how good this game would be if it was on Unreal Engine, or any engine other than Gamebryo. I like this game but this retarded engine keeps me from enjoying it more

there is much of this in the world now

works for keeping dumb shits in line, but if you rephrase it
not much different from our current democracy to be honest
the irony is palpable

the system is the same the only difference is the method of governance

are you not familiar with debt slavery?

The fallout 4 version of gamebryo isn't actually that bad in terms of tech. The animations are smooth, they've finally fixed the potato faces, it looks decent compared to shitrim anyway, the guns feel decent to shoot and power armor finally working like it was always described in lore makes my dick wet. Too bad literally everything except the engine is fucking abysmal. Honestly not even worth a pirate.

We're being raided by Bethesda shills because they launched their paid mods site this week.

Just gonna shill this here.
Also love how smug trainwiz came on here and got shit on by everyone before it came out and now he wants to kill himself because he trusted Zionmax.

The Legion has money made of real gold and silver. Bottlecaps are made of cheap steel and plastic while NCR dollars are not worth the cotton blend they're printed on. Therefore, the Legion is better.

To a normalfag the only thing when hearing words slavery is either
or
Just because you work paycheck to paycheck with no disposable income or positive outlooks on your situation ever improving while also having to pay your epic college debt doesn't mean you're enslaved.

Yeah, in spite of what that Frank Miller comic book adaptation would have you believe: Sparta was kind of a shithole.

I present you
the thread in which user redpilled himself on the fact that the only practical difference between commie and natsoc is nomenclature

Ancaps get the gas too.

>(((trainwitz)))

Serves him right, that fucking kike.

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This is truth.

Yuri Lowenthal sounds like a whiny brat because he's a jew.

Only President that matters
AI Overlord President

Reminder that Caesar doesn't actually understand Hegelian dialectics, and that Hegel himself shit on the simplistic "thesis, antithesis, synthesis" meme.

Some of those points are outright false or purposefully inaccurate, but he's right. Ceasar is pure dog shit, House masterrace.

T: Holla Forums

< the needs of the collective are greater than the needs of the individual
how could you not like it?

all these politicalfags need to leave

The guy does have a brain tumor. Hes almost appropriately crazy.

shhhh

Yes, the Enclave would basically be the deepstate. They're not people you should be looking to.

Fucking profligates.

Fuck off Todd, adults are talking.

But technology is verboten. :^)

Alright Holla Forums, I'm playing through Fat Negas for the first time and I need some mod recommendations. I already have Project Nevada and the light up and smoke those cigs mod installed. Also, I've tried searching for a gunspinning mod but I haven't had any luck. Mainly looking for mods that make you more like Revolver Ocelot but I'm open to suggestions.

Play it vanilla the first time you baka. Remove Project Nevada

Already tried a few years ago when I first bought it. It was really underwhelming.

this tbh

I don't think the mods will solve it for you then. They might make it a bit prettier and trivialize combat if you get some OP gun mods but the main attraction of New Vegas are the quest lines, storytelling and world building.
If you don't get excited by the fact that a simple looking "fix farm water supply" quest turns into raiding a nearby vault filled with ghouls and radiation, finding that some vault dwellers are still alive in the reactor room and being presented with a choice of either fucking the farm's water supply forever but saving the human vault dwellers or dooming the last survivors but securing clean water, then I don't think you'll enjoy New Vegas much. Also this is just a shitty side quest so your choice has literally no effect on how the main story plays out and mostly serves to immerse you in the game's world. If you don't find this sort of thing interesting your autism stat is too low.

Because House is a charming and manipulative psychopath, with the potential to live indefinitely. His robot army also means he has no reason to act out of loyalty or empathy. House is infinetly more dangerous an individual than Caesar, and any character who is not a psychopath should be against House by default if they value the greater good of human society.

Caesar, for all his faults, is simply an honest, if brutal, pragmatist.

This tbqh famalamadingdong
Although the catalyst for fun in this genre isn't autism, it's having an IQ higher than 50.

Assuming Ted Kazcynsky existed in that timeline, Caesar obviously

I'll take that gamble right now. any other option would no doubt enhance the tribe. so many reddit shitfag posts hating on ceaser

more people need to read v for vendetta.

I really wish the faggots here didn't base their opinions on memes.

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what

ODST is the Republic Commando of Halo

How is that (or the other post) related, in any way, to New Vegas?

It's the sort of autism that demands an injection of someone's favorite fandom into an easily moddable game. How would you like to have lorebreaking mods that allow you to have Fluttershy as your companion while you roam Nevada? Maybe you'd like to do it while wearing SPESSS MUHRINE power armor that negates whatever damage the world can throw at you? The list goes on.

tbh lore-breaking mods are okay so long as it's within some realm of belief, even within an already highly fictitious state of being. halo mods aren't so far removed from colliding with fallout as say, some anime shit.

BRAVO

bit of a moot point, I'd never play with the goddamn mods on my first vanilla run of any game

There actually isn't that many anime mods compared to Skyrim or Oblivion. which is for the best I did use the mod that changed all the cards at the casino with anime versionsI unironically enjoy it.

nobody sane would do that, apart from bugfixing and shit. looking at you, clear sky.

That is a nice non-argument.

Having all factions equal viable is a Bethes-tard tier meme. Let's add some bullshit in the last minute to make people meme about how great the Enclave is even if FO2 has shown that the Enclave doesn't really stand for that. The Legion being almost universally reviled by the people in Mojave is what pushes the plot and causes the standstill. There are still fags that think that Skyrim handled its civil war better by making most people not give a shit about it even the NPCs and having the main quest be about saving the fucking world.

This, the different strokes for different folks approach to NV factions was a brilliant one. NCR obviously isn't going appeal to everyone so there's House and Yes Man routes to take which play out somewhat differently but it's nice to have the option of aligning with the villains of the story if you want to roleplay as an edgelord even though it's not as rewarding and viable as the main routes.

Skyrim's civil war was also really bland because it didn't feel like there were any high stakes. Sure there's some political intrigue about staying in the Empire and helping against Thalmor or becoming independent but apart from having guards wearing different armor in some cities, it didn't feel like there was much that would affect the game world. On the other hand New Vegas showed that the three factions you could fight for had vastly different plans in mind and the result of the Hoover Dam battle would have immense consequences on the people living in the area.

That's even assuming he does succeed in transitioning his army to a more civilization-minded force, or assuming that the succession crisis between Vulpes and Lanius won't tear it apart because the cult of personality will be gone. Unless he produces an heir, the whole "son of Mars" thing won't last into the next generation.

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The base idea, minus any authoritarians fucking it all up (good luck) sounds ok but reality sadly doesn't work like that because a significant enough number of people are power mad fucks.

The communism part is presented in an idealist way where no seizure is needed, more often it's presented where there's no state to seize in the first place, it assumes ideal conditions where it's not replacing an existing regime and is simply 'the way things are/should be done'. Even if they had an ideal scenario like that inevitably hierarchies would generate, classes would follow, stratified society etc spiraling into the usual.

anyone have that whatcha doin fallout pic?