What moment did you realize that JRPGs were over as a genre?

Chase Foster
Chase Foster

What moment did you realize that JRPGs were over as a genre?

inb4 they were never good

Other urls found in this thread:

encyclopediadramatica.rs/Jfreedan

Bentley Taylor
Bentley Taylor

When normalfags started playing FF7

Connor Russell
Connor Russell

What isn't over as a genre?

Jayden Myers
Jayden Myers

I've never been a huge JRPG buff, but I definitely lost interest with FF10.
no overworld
entire game is just walking down hallways
batshit character design
retarded story
unnecessary, low quality voice acting
characters ranged from uninteresting to unlikeable

Austin Anderson
Austin Anderson

It varies wildly depending on the series, frankly.

- Final Fantasy: when Enix bought out Squaresoft.
- Star Ocean: 3.
- Suikoden: 4.
- Breath of Fire: 5.
- Lunar: Dragon Song.
- SaGa: the moment i realized the games didn't have a proper leveling system.

Adam Peterson
Adam Peterson

Good point.

My thoughts exactly. I think the problem is that the epic adventure scale of a 90s JRPG mixed with modern AAA expectations = insane budget and way too risky for a publisher to greenlight. If one game bombs then the entire company would go under.

Jason Hill
Jason Hill

FFX-2: Houston we have a problem

Henry Price
Henry Price

I dont mind even more generic rpg's, i just hope there's trainers or such around when i get around to actually play them because fuck all that grinding on most games.
Does piss me off though how lately i've gotten around my backlog and latest jrpg's ive been playan have been translated by NISA and playin with Jap-audio and even though ihave only the basi understanding of spoken Japan from years o watching shitty anime it's clear how much of a fucking travesty the English translations are.

Currently playan Mugen Souls Z, the first one wasnt too bad on the translation but this Z one… just jesus fucking shitQ!!!

Adam Davis
Adam Davis

JRPGs as dead, the genre is over!

Colton Campbell
Colton Campbell

A rag-tag group of 14-year-olds save the world through the power of friendship. They'll probably fight an evil empire, and end up killing God. At least one is an insufferable, sulking faggot.
Was this meme always present in JRPGs, or did it just take hold during the PS1 era?

Joseph Green
Joseph Green

When I played the demo for Conception II for the 3DS.

Then ==Current Year== happened, and now I'm back to playing JRPGs.

Fuck. Yeah, they're still garbage, but at least it's garbage with tits that doesn't try to shame you for liking them, and when you see a pink hair - she'll probably just be a kind and well meaning - but somewhat ditzy heal slut… rather than call you a nazi because you assumed it's pronouns.

Jose Wilson
Jose Wilson

Final Fantasy Legend did it in 1989

Nolan Howard
Nolan Howard

I have yet to see any JRPGs that don't copy Final Fantasy on either gameplay, storyline or setting. And if there's any, they probably have a fuckton of negative review scores anyways.

Asher Hill
Asher Hill

You kikes have been busy shilling jrps
What.. If you end the market you wont waste money censoring this?

both games
Stupid story with stupid theme, made from square-enix

oooh the end of jrpg
Fun battle system. In its worst still better than all of the propaganda games

At least answer why all the effort. It makes me curious

Noah Sanchez
Noah Sanchez

JRPGs in general went to shit in Gen6 where every game was either pointlessly complicated, filled with shitty cutscenes, or in most cases, both. It says a lot that Dragon Quest 8, a game that's pretty much a SNES RPG in design but with full 3d graphics, is better than most of the shit on the PS2.

Matthew Murphy
Matthew Murphy

MUUUUUUUH JOOOOOOOOOS

Kevin Davis
Kevin Davis

I loved them growing up but the PS3 Star Ocean made me quit them.

Cameron Howard
Cameron Howard

What moment did you realize that JRPGs were over as a genre?

When devs started listening to all the whining cancerous niggerfaggots complaining about leveling, labyrinthine dungeons, and everything else that makes JRPGs be JRPGs. So around about the year 2000.

And ultimately it was the stories that did it. The great JRPG stories drew in faggots that wanted to experience the stories but hated playing through the actual game. Now it's bittersweet to play through FF4 or Chrono Trigger knowing they wound up unintentionally killing the entire genre by telling stories too well.

Gavin Moore
Gavin Moore

(You)

Ethan Wilson
Ethan Wilson

JRPGs
dead
Heh.

Levi Thompson
Levi Thompson

Any RPG made in Japan is a JRPG.
This is the worst meme of all.

Jack Garcia
Jack Garcia

implying any of those games are good

Daniel Bailey
Daniel Bailey

Those are western-style RPGs that happen to be made in Japan.

Blake Stewart
Blake Stewart

They are by definition JRPGs.

Matthew Cook
Matthew Cook

Just like all the other threads

You cant even shitpost properly

Sebastian Lee
Sebastian Lee

You don't know the definition of "JRPG."

Cameron Robinson
Cameron Robinson

A JRPG is not determined by where its made, but rather the style of its gameplay.

Pic related are JRPGs that were made by westerners.

Dylan Wood
Dylan Wood

WoFF, Disgaea 5 and Persona 5 where comfy
the day you knew JRPGs where died
Final Fantasy 10
those, while good games are not JRPGS.

Henry Ortiz
Henry Ortiz

A JRPG is, by definition, an RPG made in Japan. A WRPG is, by definition, an RPG made in the West.

You can then further delineate the games into a variety of categories, or "sub-genres". Where you've gone wrong, and this is a really common mistake, is exclusively equating JRPG with "(Typically) Isometric, Turn-Based, Story-Heavy" games. Think your average Squaresoft title from the 90s. These make up but a fraction of JRPGs.

On the WRPG side of things, a few examples would be Fallout, Gothic, VTM:B, Diablo, and Morrowind. They have almost nothing in common, yet they're all RPGs made in the west, which, again, by definition, makes them WRPGs.

A JRPG is not determined by where its made
Actually, that's all that a JRPG is. See above.
JRPGs that were made by westerners
This is the real meme right here.

Connor Watson
Connor Watson

Ever since I started playing SRPGs. SRPGs are more immersive because they tie game mechanics to the plot. Tactics Ogre and Fire Emblem have a permadeath mechanic that shifts the plotline.

I kind of want more games like them.

Jacob Howard
Jacob Howard

Westerners making games in the JRPG style
What meme, friendo?

Dylan Lee
Dylan Lee

There is no universal JRPG "style", and an RPG made in the West, is, for the last time, a WRPG. You could insert a variety of tropes commonly found in JRPGs in a WRPG (Septerra Core, for example), but that does not make it a JRPG. JRPG and WRPG already have widespread, agreed-upon, and very simple definitions that I've outlined above. The sub-genres are where the real nuance lies.

Being slightly more specific when discussing these genres can go a long way. Final Fantasy Tactics, for example, is a Tactical (or Strategic) JRPG. Souls games are Action JRPGs. Dragon's Dogma is an Open-World Action JRPG. What OP obviously meant was "What moment did you realize that Traditional Squaresoft-style JRPGs were over as a genre?". Traditional Squaresoft-style JRPG should conjure a very specific image in your head, while JRPG alone is a massive umbrella-term.

Tyler Brooks
Tyler Brooks

No, he's totally right.

It's exactly the same as with Chinese food. That's all made in China, after all.

Ayden Gutierrez
Ayden Gutierrez

muh food analogies
Oh boy here we go.

William Cooper
William Cooper

Didn't you know that JRPG is a racist term?
encyclopediadramatica.rs/Jfreedan

Joseph Wood
Joseph Wood

in this thread
WRPG is a shit genre name using your gayass standards.

Nathan Wilson
Nathan Wilson

JRPG's aren't dead if you know where to find them.

Cameron Perry
Cameron Perry

/somethingawful/index.html

Joseph Lewis
Joseph Lewis

So Chinese food made in France is considered French food? Is that what you're driving at? That what defines something is its exact physical location, not the qualities that make it up?

Anthony White
Anthony White

A JRPG is, by definition, an RPG made in Japan. A WRPG is, by definition, an RPG made in the West.

No one cares about your made up definitions. Not even your gay mom.

William Campbell
William Campbell

STOP=
NieR Gestalt, NieR Automata, Dark Souls and Nioh are not RPGs!

Luis Long
Luis Long

Persona 5 came out this year
Etrian Odyssey 5 is coming out in August
Ni No Kuni 2 coming out this year
Dragon Quest XI coming out in the West soonish
Falcom still making loads of great titles
Plenty of great Japanese RPGs still coming out on handheld consoles

Where were you when OP sucked so many dicks?

Dominic Gomez
Dominic Gomez

Pic 1 and 3 are action games with leveling. Pic 2 is a shitty TRPG. Only pic 4 is a jrpg.

Hudson Smith
Hudson Smith

Whether or not you like games within the genre is irrelevant.

muh food analogies 2, electric boogaloo
Food analogies have never been valid when discussing vidya, and they sure as shit aren't breaking that trend any time soon.

If you're going to go down the "X isn't a real RPG" rabbit hole, the inevitable conclusion is that only Tabletop RPGs are actual RPGs.

John Collins
John Collins

Comparing something with thousands of years of time to evolve in regions where specific access to ingredients and varying local culture determines what forms of food form to video games which have existed for around 70 odd years at most and have always been an international phenomenon.

Ian Gutierrez
Ian Gutierrez

Seeing how fortune cookies, a staple in chinese food restaurants, aren't even chinese, that isn't a good comparison

James Murphy
James Murphy

Normalfags never played FF7, they only watched that one horrid movie and played those dogshit psp spinoffs.
FF7 is still too unforgiving for the average normalfag, if they ever tried they got stuck at the scorpion boss or the trap cloud segment and those who cheated with guides quit soon after over the slow pace and usual jrpg grind.

Caleb Anderson
Caleb Anderson

Food analogies have never been valid when discussing vidya
I think you're just sphincter-sad over the fact that your shaky logic breaks down when scrutinized. By all means, please explain why the food analogy doesn't work other than the fact that it makes you feel bad.

Parker Ross
Parker Ross

only Tabletop RPGs are actual RPGs
this is technically true, but fuck you. Action games with RPG elements are not Role playing games and they certainly are not JRPG's which are stylized after Dragon Quest. Anything that deviates too far from the Tried and True Dragon Quest formula is heresy.

Nathaniel Bailey
Nathaniel Bailey

Whether or not you like games within the genre is irrelevant.
I said that I hate the genre name.
What is a WRPG? If JRPGs aren't just RPGs made in Japan then what the fuck is a WRPG?

Andrew Butler
Andrew Butler

if an RPG also fits in a sub genre it's not an RPG
ok

Jordan Morales
Jordan Morales

WRPG's are games designed and created by nerdy faggots who couldn't get laid so they all decided to become transsexuals and fuck each other with dragon dildos.
you are categorically retarded.
/reddit/index.html

Carson Richardson
Carson Richardson

Dragon Quest

Which in turn was stylized after Wizardry and Ultima. Wow I guess all RPGs are WRPGs huh?

Jace Gutierrez
Jace Gutierrez

only DQ clones are real JRPGs
everyone is wrong but me and belongs on reddit
Sheeeeit. You blew your load a bit early there, champ.

Gabriel Young
Gabriel Young

The ARPG genre name has been more helpful than JRPG or WRPG. Is FF12 suddenly a WRPG because it is real-time?

Jeremiah Rodriguez
Jeremiah Rodriguez

But I am right and everyone else is incorrect.
I bet you are one of those faggots who thinks biological sex is a spectrum.

Mason Jones
Mason Jones

There's nothing else to play dude. 99% of western games are either autistic simulators or infested with SJW ideology that's shoved right in your face. At least in jrpgs you take on some magical bullshit fantasy adventure that doesn't really resemble any real life with its shitty politics.

Jason Morales
Jason Morales

I'm so confused with this conception 2. They try to make likeable characters but manages to fuck it up and making the main buddy to the character a cuck that wants you to fuck his sister.
I'm literally just disgusted and confused with this game, sure Atlus likes to publish waifub8 from time to time but conception feels like softcore porn light that happens to have gameplay, also it's so weird the priest wants you to fuck around as much as possible so the children you make can be used in combat as ants. I know the Japanese are desperate at this point but making blatant propaganda is just to weird.

Gavin Jones
Gavin Jones

Is FF12 suddenly a WRPG because it is real-time?

No? Real-time combat has never been a deciding factor in whether or not something is a WRPG. It is a factor in determining whether or not something is an ARPG, though.

Gavin Cox
Gavin Cox

Hydlide was what Japs did before they perfected the craft with DQ. Everything after dragon quest 4 has been a slow downward spiral into mediocrity.

Adam Gomez
Adam Gomez

WRPG
CRPG, you fucking pleb.

Gabriel Campbell
Gabriel Campbell

having hipster mentality

Jaxon Stewart
Jaxon Stewart

CRPG is a subgenre.

Ryder Morgan
Ryder Morgan

but he is 100% correct. FF7 was the floodgate being open to normal fags. It was a system seller for the PS1 and it was the success of FF7 that lead to the entire industry changing there marketing tactics to push for the Mega Blockbusters games. FF7 didn't only fuck over JRPG's but The entire Video game industry. Game like God of War are all because of FF7 marketing.

Ethan Taylor
Ethan Taylor

RPG with turn based battle system, the last one I could ever enjoy was Chrono Trigger. It just felt like everything was perfect. I always find myself comparing those types of RPGs to CT and ending up disappointed.

I did play a lot of FFX, but in hindsight it wasn't very good and I don't really think it was that good of a game. I think it had a lot to do with my whole
Nintendo and cartoony graphics are for kids I'm a mature gamer who likes mature games like mature final fantasy X
phase, which was fucking terrible. I missed out on a lot of good games.

Benjamin Robinson
Benjamin Robinson

You are fucking retard.

Jayden Russell
Jayden Russell

you are a butt hurt faggot

Benjamin Foster
Benjamin Foster

butthurt
(9)
Oh the irony

Jackson Hill
Jackson Hill

responding to bait
the guy literally posted "I am right and everyone else is incorrect", it's fucking autism.

Kevin Miller
Kevin Miller

his is objectively true and confirmed by your doubles. Aside form the part about it being bait, I am still 100% correct

Thomas James
Thomas James

I bet you are one of those faggots who thinks biological sex is a spectrum.
<Pic related is your argument.

No? Real-time combat has never been a deciding factor in whether or not something is a WRPG.
It is one of the bullshit factors that matter or not matter whenever you fags feel like it.

Zachary Brooks
Zachary Brooks

the problem was more that cinematic gaming became the only thing, in gaming and they sorta had a formula but later they just had the formula and when you spoiled a set-piece you actually spoiled the whole game. And with linear games that relay on set-pieces to drive the game instead of gameplay. you can see how bad it became until gaming is basically nothing but really Jewish business practices that is MP games.

Lucas Russell
Lucas Russell

a cuck
whoring out his sister (he doesn't bone himself)
Something doesn't compute here.

Jeremiah Ramirez
Jeremiah Ramirez

Only a cuck can't understand

Mason Sanchez
Mason Sanchez

Are you me? I played and beat all of those games too! I highly recommend them to anyone else willing to try em out!

RPG's from japan
Not jrpg

user you're fucking retarded.

Wyatt Torres
Wyatt Torres

What is this image it feels like satire yet I know for a fact that loads of 'game critiques' or whatever spout this crap nonstop.

Aaron Williams
Aaron Williams

hack n' slash with rpg elements
hack n' slash with rpg elements
hack n' slash with rpg elements
Wow, nice jrpg's, bait-kun.

Camden Anderson
Camden Anderson

JRPGs were over as a genre
still have a fuckton of jrpgs to play, nothing dead on my side.

Justin Nguyen
Justin Nguyen

Current gen, definitely. Last gen, there were some signs of life, but it's all over now. Some others would probably say "When everything got shitty mobile additions."

Kayden Russell
Kayden Russell


judging JRPGs as a whole by a Final Fantasy title
This is the easiest way to instantly identify a pleb. FF has always been the single most overrated JRPG series. Nobody with good taste believes FF defines the genre.

Yep, just as I thought, you're retarded.

Jayden Brooks
Jayden Brooks

A shitty edit of this to make a point.

Dominic Myers
Dominic Myers

Your point is still stupid and you are a retard. If a French chef makes Chinese food then it is still Chinese food; it doesn't suddenly become classified as French cuisine. JRPGs are the same way. It's a style of gameplay, not the location where it is made. The only reason they're called JRPGs is because they were pioneered by the Japs and the vast majority of their RPGs were of that style.

Christopher Miller
Christopher Miller

This got someone banned from FA

Luke James
Luke James

Retards still arguing about JRPG as a geographic label
The only reason to have it literally just mean 'RPG made in Japan' is delusional purism/weeabooism, it's a genre defined by gameplay elements or it's a worthless label. It's the same as grouping all anime together as separate from cartoons(something the nips themselves don't even do because they know it's fucking silly).when they come from so many disparate genres it's meaningless.

Jordan Morris
Jordan Morris

Makes an ad hominem of comparing someone to a fucking retard that believes that gender is spectrum
Calls someone retarded for pointing out that his argument is closer to gender spectrum faggotry
Are you going to define that fucking style or are you going to insist that you fags don't use turn-based combat as metric but arbitrarily exempt things like FF12?
How is Witcher 3 not a JRPG in a way that doesn't exclude FF12?
Random encounters? You know that that was common place in many RPGs in both West and Japan?

or it's a worthless label.
That is point, faggot.

Nathaniel Scott
Nathaniel Scott

That is point, faggot.
JRPG is a useful label when it actually refers to gameplay elements though, it's only worthless if it's a purely geographic term.

Robert Jackson
Robert Jackson

JRPG is a useful label when it actually refers to gameplay elements though,
What gameplay elements? No one ever clear on that especially in this thread.

Dylan Howard
Dylan Howard

What gameplay elements? No one ever clear on that especially in this thread.
Good question, you'd have to get a bunch of faggots in a room to sit down and list them and I'm not going to pretend I've bothered to do that (I don't really care enough about JRPGs to bother). Probably you'd want to touch upon things that aren't strictly gameplay too (broadly linear stories/lack of non-mecahnical role-playing, for example).

Landon Baker
Landon Baker

When devs didn't embrace Valkyrie Profile's combat.

Jaxon Jenkins
Jaxon Jenkins

Then you'd have issues like:
1. Some degree of grinding (both items and XP)
2. Turn based only (skub-tier this one, I might change it to 'abstracted combat' instead but it should rule out games like Dark Souls as being too actioney)
3. Pre-defined characters with pre-defined abilities/classes
4. Fairly linear
5. No non-mechanical roleplaying (i.e. not related to changing stats)
And so on.

Jordan Sullivan
Jordan Sullivan

Grr! How dare Hollywood use Spaghetti Western on anything but Italian made movies argh! Grrrrr!

Nicholas James
Nicholas James

Read the post again faggot.

Cooper Foster
Cooper Foster

So you're admitting that the only widespread agreed-upon definition of JRPG is an RPG made in Japan, and that to further define games requires delineating them into various sub-genres, which is exactly what I went over last night.

Glad to see we're on the same page.

Jaxon Anderson
Jaxon Anderson

Usually it was a (mostly) linear, story-heavy focus with well-defined characters and a narrative that was what set apart JRPGs from their western counterparts. For the longest time western RPGs were just D&D ripoff maze games wherein 99% of the game is dungeon crawling, while JRPGs felt like an interactive fantasy novel where you traveled across entire worlds.

The reason JRPGs are dead is because they're becoming more like western RPGs. No world map to get lost in, no towns and shops to visit, and instead you just run through straight corridor dungeons 99% of the time.

Jackson Brooks
Jackson Brooks

So you're admitting that the only widespread agreed-upon definition of JRPG is an RPG made in Japan, and that to further define games requires delineating them into various sub-genres, which is exactly what I went over last night.
No, I'm saying that defining JRPG as 'RPG made in Japan' is entirely useless for anything beyond being a purist or a weeb (i.e. claiming the country it was made in has any relevance), instead you sit down and list gameplay elements and come up with an actual genre or abandon the term entirely as an entirely arbitrary grouping.
only widespread agreed-upon definition of JRPG is an RPG made in Japan
You can dig up hundreds of thousands of arguments about JRPG not meaning this with a few seconds on google and that's before we start going into why majority opinion is fucking worthless.

Gavin Thompson
Gavin Thompson

It was the loss of three things that caused it.
When ATB was abandoned.
When many adopted a modern anime aesthetic.
When they all adopted lightnovel quality writing.

Charles Green
Charles Green

But the agreed-upon definition of JRPG is an RPG made in Japan, and this definition has seen mass adoption from the developers themselves while you're literally admitting to creating arbitrary restrictions here to define JRPG as "things I like" entirely on an emotional basis, the same as

Brandon King
Brandon King

Probably you'd want to touch upon things that aren't strictly gameplay too (broadly linear stories/lack of non-mecahnical role-playing, for example).
You think this is survival horror or something with story theme that well defined?

1. Some degree of grinding (both items and XP)
Not only subjective but it is present in WRPG as well especially Dungeon Crawlers.
2. Turn based only (skub-tier this one, I might change it to 'abstracted combat' instead but it should rule out games like Dark Souls as being too actioney)
<Turn based only
Fallout 1 and 2 are turn based. FF12 is real-time.
<abstracted combat
<abstracted
So anything using HP? Also, plenty of WRPGs are like that.
3. Pre-defined characters with pre-defined abilities/classes
Witcher.
4. Fairly linear
Mass Effect.
5. No non-mechanical roleplaying (i.e. not related to changing stats)
Witcher and Mass Effect or any game with a dialogue wheel. Using the non-faggot definition of role-playing (which doesn't include play pretend) excludes Skyrim.

Ayden Smith
Ayden Smith

Also if you really want to rely on this 'widespread' nonsense sit an average faggot down in front of something like Anachronox without any extra information and I guarantee most will call it a JRPG; tell them it was made in the west and they aren't going to change their opinion. It's clear that the common understanding has room for 'JRPG not made in Japan'.
But the agreed-upon definition of JRPG is an RPG made in Japan
Says fucking who?
and this definition has seen mass adoption from the developers themselves
muh appeal to authority
Developers also regularly define RTT games as RTS games and make up nonsense terms like 'Immersive Simulator'. Their opinions mean nothing.
you're literally admitting to creating arbitrary restrictions here (You) to define JRPG as "things I like" entirely on an emotional basis
In what way are they arbitrary? The way to define a genre is 'a faggot liked one game in this genre, will they like another in it also?'. This is why you list things by gameplay elements and not geographic origin: someone who liked FF7 and wants more from the same genre should be recommended Anachronox (a game that broadly shares the same gameplay elements) and not fucking Dark Souls (a game simply developed by people with squinty eyes of roughly the same angle). JRPG as a geographic label is utterly useless for anything other than purism/weeabooism, JRPG as a genre based on gameplay elements is as useful as any other (correctly defined) genre.

Matthew Hughes
Matthew Hughes

I think you need to sit down and actually read the thread, because everything you're whining about has already been addressed in my earlier posts.

Spoiler: Using JRPG in an attempt to define specific gameplay elements is unintuitive and will NEVER be agreed upon. Meanwhile, saying something like 'Traditional Squaresoft JRPG' conjures the exact image you're attempting to convey. We both know I'm right on this, but feel free to continue to double down and shitpost instead of just admitting you were wrong, like (a897d6) did until getting himself all tuckered out.

Landon Murphy
Landon Murphy

Also if you really want to rely on this 'widespread' nonsense sit an average faggot down in front of something like Anachronox without any extra information and I guarantee most will call it a JRPG; tell them it was made in the west and they aren't going to change their opinion. It's clear that the common understanding has room for 'JRPG not made in Japan'.
You mean how the average fag thinks Fallout was made by Bethesda?
TODD HOWARD TO BE INDUCTED INTO THE AIAS HALL OF FAME AT THE 20TH D.I.C.E. AWARDS CEREMONY
Award For Legendary Creator of the Elder Scrolls and Fallout Series

Adam Reyes
Adam Reyes

You think this is survival horror or something with story theme that well defined?
I'm confused as to what the fuck you mean, are you talking about Fallout 4?

Being this dense
All of these counter-examples have one-two minor gameplay elements in common with the (half-finished) definition of JRPG, to fit in the genre requires you to have many (though granted not all).
Not only subjective but it is present in WRPG as well especially Dungeon Crawlers.
Unsurprising as JRPG, properly defined, is a sub-genre highly related to the Dungeon Crawler sub-genre (in fact if you know your history jap RPGs started out as almost spin-offs of classic Dungeon Crawlers, though it's more complicated).
Fallout 1 and 2 are turn based. FF12 is real-time.
That's literally one feature they have in common, Fallout 1 and 2 fail every other category.
<abstracted combat
So anything using HP? Also, plenty of WRPGs are like that.
Abstracted combat, as it says in the post you're replying to, is anything not explicitly actiony/realistic. Pretend you don't understand what I mean if you want but non-turn-based JRPGs have a very distinct 'stats + animation' combat style rather than trying to emulate realistic combat or focus on real time actions (reaction speed etc), Japanese games that do not (e.g. Dark Souls) are not JRPGs.
Witcher.
One feature in common.
Mass Effect.
Even the later ME games are not quite as linear as the average JRPG. Actually you could make an argument for the later games being a fringe case, it's a bit of abstracted combat and grinding away from being an extremely shoddily made JRPG but whatever.
Witcher and Mass Effect or any game with a dialogue wheel
Witcher has non-mechanical roleplaying, ME is more 'questionable' in that regard as noted above.
Using the non-faggot definition of role-playing (which doesn't include play pretend) excludes Skyrim.
Skyrim is an ARPG (and a poor one at that), a sub-genre which is partly defined by being largely mechanical in focus but differentiated from JRPG by being more 'actiony' (for want of a better term). It not counting as a 'normal' RPG is a desirable outcome.

Matthew Walker
Matthew Walker

Using JRPG in an attempt to define specific gameplay elements is unintuitive and will NEVER be agreed upon.
Then it's a worthless term and anyone using it is a faggot. Also 'retards won't use the term properly' is hardly an argument for accepting their retardism, are we going to start using bullshit like roguelite and immersive simulator now as well? People will never agree on that either.
unintuitive
I point again to examples like Anacrhonox, to which the intuitive response (in the literal meaning of intuitive) is to call it a JRPG.
Meanwhile, saying something like 'Traditional Squaresoft JRPG' conjures the exact image you're attempting to convey.
Because what you're really doing there is defining it by gameplay elements: that literally translates as 'RPG with gameplay elements like traditional squaresoft RPGs' rather than 'RPG made in Japan'.
We both know I'm right on this, but feel free to continue to double down and shitpost instead of just admitting you were wrong, like (a897d6) did until getting himself all tuckered out.

Cameron Evans
Cameron Evans

Hit reply too soon
I was just going to call you a faggot in that last bit anyway so it isn't too much of a concern.
You mean how the average fag thinks Fallout was made by Bethesda?
The user I was replying to was the one talking about 'widespread', 'intuitive' etc like the beliefs of the average retard out in the world mattered shit all, I was just pointing out that in addition to majority opinion being worthless it wasn't even universally on his side.

Angel Barnes
Angel Barnes

Then it's a worthless term and anyone using it is a faggot
Now you're getting it. The Holla Forums definition of JRPG is either "everything I don't like" when used negatively, or "muh pure gook gaemz filthy gaijin stay away" when used in an attempt to disparage western games. Instead, you should be treating JRPG as nothing more than a single descriptor (an RPG made in Japan), and then adding whatever core sub-genres the game falls into, or dropping it altogether
are we going to start using bullshit like roguelite and immersive simulator now as well?
Roguelite, Metroidvania, and even Souls-like are meaningful sub-genre descriptions. I'd argue immersive simulator is too vague, but "walking simulator" is definitely a useful tool for categorization.
anachronox is intuitively a JRPG
No, as someone who grew up with it, we called it an RPG.
Because what you're really doing there is defining it by gameplay elements
Yes, exactly. This is what I covered in my first couple of posts, and why I instructed you to read them.

Samuel Price
Samuel Price

Using JRPG in an attempt to define specific gameplay elements is unintuitive and will NEVER be agreed upon.
With a mildly off-topic rant on this, we'll also have to abandon RTT and TBT since faggots (and even developers and publishers) misuse them far more often that correctly using them. This is the same nonsense as literally now literally meaning figuratively because faggots can't learn how to use language properly. You don't base terminology on what the average fucker in the street can understand or you end up with bullshit. Obviously you don't want to slide too far into prescriptivism but there's a distinction between 'we should use language with an eye towards common understanding' and 'all language use is relative' post-modernist stupidity. Then you get even more extreme cases like trannies trying to define being normal as something other than 'conforming to the norm' for political reasons. Do note: I'm not accusing anyone ITT of claiming anything this silly, I'm just saying language is important and all.

Brody Smith
Brody Smith

Survival Horror has story elements of horror but JRPGs aren't that clean cut that.

If there are so many fucking exemptions to your definition, then pick the common theme among them.

Language is about human application. If the word is useful and people use it, that is the way that it works. There is a reason why there are words exclusively used in a profession and laymen words. Some fat fuck at Ted suggested that Pizza should be the new metaphor for sex but gave no examples of it being used in conversation. On the other hand, GradeAUnderA too retarded to know why whales are considered mammals.

For the term JRPG, it is made for a fad. Something like Dark Souls wouldn't have naturally came out the west due to certain Japanese style design choices.

Jack Gomez
Jack Gomez

Now you're getting it. The Holla Forums definition of JRPG is either "everything I don't like" when used negatively, or "muh pure gook gaemz filthy gaijin stay away" when used in an attempt to disparage western games.
There's clearly something intuitive about it beyond just that, better to settle on them a proper definition since faggots will keep using it in general. Also there are a fair few anons who do not treat it as such a label (evidently so since this isn't the first thread we've had on this subject).
No, as someone who grew up with it, we called it an RPG.
Welcome to the problem with intuitions, they aren't universal.
Instead, you should be treating JRPG as nothing more than a single descriptor (an RPG made in Japan), and then adding whatever core sub-genres the game falls into, or dropping it altogether
Yes, exactly. This is what I covered in my first couple of posts, and why I instructed you to read them.
I don't see anything but you insisting that JRPG is a purely geographic term do you still think it's even a genre?, you seem not to and that's probably the correct choice if we go by your argument, something we clearly fundamentally disagree on even if we (apparently) agree on other things. You're free to hold that opinion but you still need two things:
A. To prove that it is universal/damn near universal for people to assume JRPG is purely geographic. I have a sneaking suspicion this might actually vary by continent, it seems more common in the USA than here and might reach back to differing rates of console adoption and differing tastes in console brands. Almost everyone I've talked to here treats JRPG as a genre, not a geographic label.
B. Argue that, even if A. is the case it means anything more than the average person being a fucking retarded. I again point you towards RTS/TBS vs RTT/TBT or literally vs figuratively for cases of majority opinion being wildly unhelpful.

Additionally I'm still going to disagree that it's universal for JRPG to mean 'rpg made in Japan', plenty of people I've spoken to automatically see Dark Souls as not-a-JRPG and certain western made games as JRPGs though that does seem to vary by country (I've noticed it's more common with American anons, this might go back to the difference in console adoption by continent).

On a less argumentative note:
Roguelite
Roguelite is too wide to be helpful, it just translates into 'permadeath + procedural generation' with no real concern for every other gameplay element. It's like Open World, not a genre but a feature (in this case two features) that are often (but not exclusively) used by games in the same genre and insufficient on their own to count as anything else. Rougelike, however, is a sub-genre.
even Souls-like
Probably a sub-sub-genre of ARPG but I'd agree there's something to the term that could stand up to proper definition.
Metroidvania
I'd argue immersive simulator is too vague >"walking simulator" is definitely a useful tool for categorization.
I'd agree to all, though it's up for debate if all walking simulators even come up to the level of actually being games. Also as long as it's understood that Castlevania is not a Metroidvania even though its sequels clearly are.

Mason Richardson
Mason Richardson

Survival Horror has story elements of horror but JRPGs aren't that clean cut that.
Confused about what you mean by this analogy. Also it's funny you say Survival Horror is clean-cut because it's another (sub-)genre that's consistently misapplied to any given horror game.
If there are so many fucking exemptions to your definition, then pick the common theme among them.
Those are not exemptions, those are games from the same overall genre (RPG) that happen to have individual elements from a different sub-genre than the one to which they belong, 100% expected outcomes. You might as well bitch about the fact RTT games have 'controlling units' in common with RTS games: sub-genres under a genre are obviously going to be mildly similar if you only cherry-pick specific parts of them. Also the definition I gave was literally a half-assed one I thought up in ~3-4 minutes, it obviously isn't perfectly formed. Give me 20 autists and ~5 hours and I could hash out a better one, open it up to counter-examples and iterate until it was solid (i.e. the way terminology is properly defined though that's a bit autistic even for Holla Forums). There was actually an attempt here on Holla Forums years ago to define each genre and sub-genre properly but it never went anywhere.

Language is about human application. If the word is useful and people use it, that is the way that it works.
That type of naive descriptivism literally just describing language as used is the type of thinking that ruined the word literally and is anyway a sweeping generalisation of a fairly complicated subject. You must tread a line between stagnant language and ease of understanding/intuition.
There is a reason why there are words exclusively used in a profession and laymen words. Some fat fuck at Ted suggested that Pizza should be the new metaphor for sex but gave no examples of it being used in conversation. On the other hand, GradeAUnderA too retarded to know why whales are considered mammals.
Well yes but that's only the relatively uncontroversial claim that precision/correctness of language is relative to the context in which it's used. When talking about vidya in an autistic context (see: Holla Forums) you should obviously be autistically precise about your language and so use JRPG as a gameplay term (or not at all), if you just want to talk about vidya to plebs then feel free to use JRPG as a geographic label.

For the term JRPG, it is made for a fad
The term JRPG (used correctly or otherwise) has existed for decades and this is actually part of the problem.

Joshua Torres
Joshua Torres

kike detected

Dylan Moore
Dylan Moore

Video games are not the best means to present a linear story, and this is why people usually shit on modern games with linear stories, esspecailly if it has RPG in it's description. You see RPG's are and always were all about being non-linear but because nips are retarded and have a shitty conformist culture, they thought that allowing the player the freedom of choise is bad since all their shitty play testers probably picked the same options because they're fucking asian ant people without free will or a mind of their own.

JRPG's should take a lesson from way of the samurai and allow the story to branch out, with multiple endings that depend on the choises the player makes throughout the game. The real problem with JRPG writing and design is that they were madeor at least written by anime/manga industry rejects who wanted to make a a linear story and the games in turn reflected that by being completely linear visual novels with CGI cutscenes and backgrounds that sometimes got interrupted by actual gameplay.

Ayden Thompson
Ayden Thompson

imply anime isn't extremely different from western cartoons

Carter Wood
Carter Wood

Anime is much more developed and has many more genres compared to western animation, that has mostly switched to CGI anyway, and is still primarily targeted at younger audiences with very very few serious and gritty or comedic or erotic/dirty stuff being made. In the west cartoons are forever stuck in the "kiddieshit" category and this notion is greatly harming western animation. Most of the animation talent in the west works on that(kiddieshit) or either video games and movies.
However both nip and western animation are still at the core concept, the same, which is story presentation without the use of live-action actors who are replaced with animated 2d or 3d models.

Hudson Bennett
Hudson Bennett

You have severe autism.
Do you start this type of argument over every colloquialism you come across?

Carson Butler
Carson Butler

The best of anime is sure, the bulk of it is similar childish shit. If you divide both up into subgenres there will be many populated solely by anime but some with a large amount from both sources (teenage-male-fantasy shit, for example).
In the west cartoons are forever stuck in the "kiddieshit" category and this notion is greatly harming western animation. Most of the animation talent in the west works on that(kiddieshit) or either video games and movies.
I'd add that video games and even most animated movies are still perceived as kiddieshit.

Adam Williams
Adam Williams

Oh and one rare example of a western cartoon aimed explicitly at adults would be Star Trek: The Animated Series. I seem to remember there were a fair few films and shows around the 50s and 60s aimed at adults because live action couldn't compete with effects, at least not cheaply.

William Robinson
William Robinson

animated movies are still perceived as kiddieshit.
By movies, I meant they were doing CGI for live-action movies, not animated ones.
vidya is percieved as kiddieshit
Not anymore, since the average age of "gamers" is like 25. Most people you will find in online games are adults and hate squeakers with a passion.

Adam Clark
Adam Clark

By movies, I meant they were doing CGI for live-action movies, not animated ones.
Ah, my bad.
Not anymore, since the average age of "gamers" is like 25. Most people you will find in online games are adults and hate squeakers with a passion.
Setting aside walking simulators it doesn't seem like there's widespread acceptance of this among the entire adult population yet. I expect (and to a degree hope) this will change as those 25 year olds normalfag ones not autists like us, what we think does not matter get older but it's a bit of a waiting game.

Brody Perez
Brody Perez

I'm pretty sure that pretty much everyone born since the 90's already percieves playing video games as something normal. And while most normashits are filthy casuals and only like fifa, GTA and call of battlefield, I would say that vidya is very much already as mainstream as it gets. Big releases get TV ads and there were even fucking esports broadcast on TV. I think that's already enough to qualify as mainstream, not to mention the ammount of shekels big releases make these days.

Josiah Collins
Josiah Collins

You just described every shounen anime story ever. And since such anime and videogames share much of their audience, it's really no wonder that stories of nip videogames fall into the same tropes.

William Sanders
William Sanders

I'm pretty sure that pretty much everyone born since the 90's already percieves playing video games as something normal.
That's just everyone up to age ~27, not even the entirety of non-retired adults.
And while most normashits are filthy casuals and only like fifa, GTA and call of battlefield, I would say that vidya is very much already as mainstream as it gets. Big releases get TV ads and there were even fucking esports broadcast on TV. I think that's already enough to qualify as mainstream, not to mention the ammount of shekels big releases make these days.
Mainstream sure but they aren't considered 'art' or 'mature' on the same level as good films, books or what have you. It's improving mind but you'll still be seen as childish if you talk about it to people aged 30+ and most media (controlled largely by the out-of-touch) pushes that line. Hell even video gaming's own media pushes the idea that normal vidya and normal gamers need to 'grow up'.

Jaxson Ramirez
Jaxson Ramirez

normal vidya and normal gamers need to 'grow up'.
By that they mean that vidya and gamers must conform to their politically correct standarts so that online interactions don't shock the bluepilled normalfags. But that is pretty much impossible, since video games are by their nature competitive, and unless they start moderating every single fucking chat, they cannot possibly enforce their goodthink on the gaming public.

Ian Cox
Ian Cox

yes but that was enabled by the 11 million sales of FFVII. A majority of the Newfags where only into the game for the CGI cutscenes. In fact Square ended up investing in just a CGI department which is why they made the movie Final Fantasy The Spirit Within. This shift in focus was all due to the success of FFVII. Granted they Squaresoft was responsible for pushing CGI Film technology forward but they no longer cared about Video games, it became for a focuses on being on the cutting edge of visual effects technology. Now that Graphics are not a huge selling point Squaresoft is once again seeing a need to reinvent itself. Hopefully they learn for Sega and start to get back to basics. World of Final Fantasy was a step in the right direction but it was playing it way too safe.

Logan Johnson
Logan Johnson

By that they mean that vidya and gamers must conform to their politically correct standarts so that online interactions don't shock the bluepilled normalfags. But that is pretty much impossible, since video games are by their nature competitive, and unless they start moderating every single fucking chat, they cannot possibly enforce their goodthink on the gaming public.
Well of course they're wrong, it's just that that's the opinion even the part of the media that should know better pushes.

Asher Allen
Asher Allen

Mainstream sure but they aren't considered 'art' or 'mature' on the same level as good films, books or what have you.
And this is a good thing. Art Critique is a decadence financial racket born from speculation and speculation being a form of Usury . Critical theory applied to Art is only used to subvert and degrade the art form while still managing to turn it into a profit. Thank God video games are not seen as "art".

James Nguyen
James Nguyen

Jrpgs aren't over, you've just hit 30 yo.

Well at least, happy birthday.

Dylan Gonzalez
Dylan Gonzalez

getting this offended by pollock buzzwords

Adam Martin
Adam Martin

I'd prefer that they were at least seen as acceptable things for an adult to indulge in though, something on the level of the average blockbuster film would suffice.

Logan Harris
Logan Harris

I'd prefer if you killed yourself.

Tyler Stewart
Tyler Stewart

Having to hide your power level out in the world at large is annoying user.

Sebastian Robinson
Sebastian Robinson

prefer that they were at least seen as acceptable things for an adult to indulge in
but its not, its hedonistic to over indulge in video games. Its actually a good thing that people see it as dysgenic. Plus the stigma shield you from having your hobby overturned by trashy watered down consumerism. The more video games is normalized the more you will have to deal with Causal dumb down video games and Obsessive compulsive neurotic feminist, and niggers crying about Misogynistic and Racist bogeymen.

Blake Allen
Blake Allen

pollock
/reddit/index.html

Logan Perez
Logan Perez

but its not, its hedonistic to over indulge in video games. Its actually a good thing that people see it as dysgenic.
Indulge =/= overindulge, any hobby taken to the levels of hedonism is obviously a problem.
Plus the stigma shield you from having your hobby overturned by trashy watered down consumerism. The more video games is normalized the more you will have to deal with Causal dumb down video games and Obsessive compulsive neurotic feminist, and niggers crying about Misogynistic and Racist bogeymen.
But vidya games already have all that and I still can't say 'I really enjoyed playing [video game] over the weekend' like I could with [generic action movie]'.

Eli Phillips
Eli Phillips

Confused about what you mean by this analogy.
Survival Horror is defined by it story elements while JRPGs don't follow a specific story genre.
Also it's funny you say Survival Horror is clean-cut
I meant that all survival horror titles have have horror elements in the story. I just wanted to type something and sleep.

Also the definition I gave was literally a half-assed one I thought up in ~3-4 minutes,
You are putting a stray jack on and you haven't made the measurements yet. I don't want to be that faggot that links to game design video but this does explain my distaste for the genre name JRPG and WRPG.

Colton Davis
Colton Davis

I'd prefer that they were at least seen as acceptable things for an adult to indulge in though, something on the level of the average blockbuster film would suffice.
Who doesn't see video games this way besides hypernormalfag thots and your great-grandad that served in WW2?

David Garcia
David Garcia

started this for the first time yesterday just beat the robo spider pic relate

what i'm in for

Brandon Nguyen
Brandon Nguyen

You are putting a stray jack on and you haven't made the measurements yet.
You mean a straight jacket?
I don't want to be that faggot that links to game design video but this does explain my distaste for the genre name JRPG and WRPG.
Not going to watch it, summarise it fag.
Who doesn't see video games this way besides hypernormalfag thots and your great-grandad that served in WW2?
Pretty much everyone outside of Holla Forums over the age of ~25.

Jayden Williams
Jayden Williams

Poorly designed genre name leads to a needlessly limited scope of analysis & design of games and chasing the latest fucking trend.
Just watch the fucking video.

Dominic Barnes
Dominic Barnes

The World Ends With You

Juan Cook
Juan Cook

Pretty much everyone outside of Holla Forums over the age of ~25.
Do you live in Mexico or something? I'm not trying to criticize, I'm honestly curious because clearly we've had very different experiences.

Cameron Cruz
Cameron Cruz

Sorry to say but it's all downhill from here. You thought you were going to go on cool missions, you're not. Keep going though, the only way you'll really know is to experience it.

Gabriel Gomez
Gabriel Gomez

But user, Final Fantasy copied it's gameplay from Dragon Quest.

Easton Peterson
Easton Peterson

Poorly designed genre name leads to a needlessly limited scope of analysis & design of games and chasing the latest fucking trend.
I mean if it's another faggot agreeing JRPG needs to be properly defined or discarded then fair enough, I still sit on the 'properly defined' side since faggots will misuse the term either way and it's easier to persuade them to modify it than drop it outright.
Do you live in Mexico or something? I'm not trying to criticize, I'm honestly curious because clearly we've had very different experiences.
Bongland, I also have to interact with people aged 30-50 on a regular basis and that's the common opinion among that age group.

Bentley Clark
Bentley Clark

I still sit on the 'properly defined' side
We already have a proper definition, which is an RPG made in japan. I don't know how you expect to make it more than that, and have anyone come to an agreement. There's so much variety and overlap between eastern and western rpgs that attempting to assign specific gameplay elements to either, while still retaining the regional naming just doesn't make sense. You can't have some round-table discussion where you go back and forth where wrpgs get X, jrpgs get Y, until you run out of mechanics, because that heavy overlap/interchangeability is going to make it impossible to accurately summarize all RPGs into either of those two categories based on gameplay/story elements. If you could come up with a clever genre name for all of those squareshit clones, you'd probably take care of what anons are thinking when they say "jrpg" 98% of the time.
boomer/gen x britcucks worried about what hobbies another adult has while their nation is being conquered
You really do make the worst neo-liberal infested shitholes in the US look reasonably sane by comparison. Way to live up to the stereotype.

Zachary Diaz
Zachary Diaz

What a faggot.

Noah Clark
Noah Clark

see image
"Why the fuck is FFXII so shiny"
realize its the remaster
For what reason did they do that?

Connor Brown
Connor Brown

Yeah, god forbid we have anything too silly, outlandish or fantastical in games. Everything needs to be just like real life because i have no imagination, and no big non-english or made up words. Everything needs to be simple, quick, easy-to-consume lukewarm shit like the game equivalent of a mc donalds hamburger, otherwise my mulatto american brain gets all confused and starts to hurt.

Cameron Robinson
Cameron Robinson

defending Square's decline into tween emo garbage after the likes of FF1-6 which were extremely Eurocentric Hero's Journey themed
with NatSoc memes
You're blackpilling me, stop

Angel Rogers
Angel Rogers

Eurabian trying to talk shit about who's white

Jace Ramirez
Jace Ramirez

The discussion wasn't about FF exclusively, faggot, but JRPG's as a genre. I'll break down my argument against the faggot i was replying to further, to make it easier for your mongrel brain to understand.

When many adopted a modern anime aesthetic.
<Yeah, god forbid we have anything too silly, outlandish or fantastical in games. Everything needs to be just like real life because i have no imagination
This part of my post is quite fucking self-explanitory, and because it's 0:20 am in my part of europe, i don't think i can possibly make it easier to understand in my current state. I'll add that i find it funny when you faggots call anime "tween emo garbage" and complain about the lack of eurocentrism, when anime is literally the most eurocentric and pro-white medium in the fucking world. You won't find more white people anywhere else than in anime.

When they all adopted lightnovel quality writing.
muh' lack of hero's journey
I don't know what the fuck you've been reading/playing/watching, but once again, you won't find a medium that showcases this story arc more often than in anime/japanese games. Are there even any western fantasy games made in the last 5 years besides the wither games?

Whatever you say, mr 54% "white". I'll just continue being a blonde, green eyed eurabian sandnigger in my 95% white, ethnically homogenous Finland with 4% swedes and 1% sandnigger "refugees" most of which left because it's cold as shit and the local skinheads beat the shit out of them and tried to torch the refugee center because they groped a white woman.

Also, your next line will be "muh terrorist attack though". Yeah, a cowardly sandnigger stabbed 2 white women to death and was then immidiately chased down by a mob of around 30 people, including a 70 year old man, who beat the shit out of him and had his dick shot off by the cops.

Logan Price
Logan Price

They really were never good, like all RPGs. The only thing that might be good about them is their settings, but that goes down the fucking drain when the gameplay is such fucking garbage. I'm not a big fan of Heretic or Hexen, but they're miles ahead of any RPG in their use of what is typically an RPG setting.

Gabriel Baker
Gabriel Baker

what does that have to do whit light anime writting?

Wyatt Martinez
Wyatt Martinez

western-style RPGs

No, these are.

Nolan Cooper
Nolan Cooper

whiteness olympcis D&C
Yup, it's a shill.
Absolutely nothing it's just a leftard trying to shit up the thread and force his shitty D&C memes.

Ayden Diaz
Ayden Diaz

When jrpgs became pure weeb pandering pieces of shit.

Levi Brooks
Levi Brooks

those a primarily steaming piles of shit. with maybe the exception of Arcanum because i never played it. After all only homosexuals unironically like steampunk.
(hail Hitler)
You are correct, a real National Socialist would not be LARPing about their politics on a taiwanese video game forum.

Juan Walker
Juan Walker

heil*

Tyler Price
Tyler Price

Was this meme always present in JRPGs, or did it just take hold during the PS1 era?
It's always been around, but there used to be shit like SMT to balance it out. Now even that's become a rag-tag group of 14 year olds fighting god with the power of friendship.

Benjamin Howard
Benjamin Howard

you can't tell me she aint cute

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