[infantile screeching]

LeftComs are such fucking garbage, dustbin of history.

wew.

Wew: thecharnelhouse.org/2014/11/25/against-activism/

You're all in the premature trash compactor of history and you're not even aware of it.

Color me surprised.

Punching fascists is pretty effective. You guys seem to think that american antifa is the only antifa that exists.

Have you tried beeing an open leftist in nazi infested parts? Have you tried to run leftist bookstores in places where nazis are organised and strong? Do you know about the state protection they get? You dont because you probably live in some big nice town full of left liberal students that can be convinced by slick theory.

Who do you think educates about fascism and its developments keeps an eye on nazi organisation and informs the media, who do you think creates venues where left youth can experiment and just be themselves? Activists and antifa, they maintain the public presence of leftism they keep the nazis occupied and prevent them from creating save spaces where they can spread their propaganda unhindered.

Yes burning trashcans and punching random rightwingers is stupid. But you retards that blindly hate on everything activists do, that lap up capitalist propaganda just so they can score a few cheap points are even worse.

If you were punching actual fascists and not LARPers, maybe. Protip: the second you can punch an actual fascist is the time you've long lost, and you'll never see a proper fascist on the street before he's usurped power. Why? Because fascism is not a political movement; it's a defense mechanism of capital. German social democrats launched some of history's first anti-fascist movements, yet were also the ones to crown Hitler and the NSDAP the leading position in parliament. Fascism took a hold where it did because of failed working class organization against capital, not because there was insufficient LARP on LARP action in the streets with skinheads. Read the cited article in the OP: libcom.org/library/fascism-anti-fascism-gilles-dauve-jean-barrot

Where do you live, Donbass?

More than the left-liberal side of campus politics? Your conflict is a false one.

You educate people on nothing and fight against nothing, because you've fundamentally misidentified fascism as any instance in which liberal democracy fails to keep a pretty face.

99.99% of american are anarkiddies which ate up the BIG GOBBERMIND = FASCISM pill

kek, you are naive man.

dat revisionism, SPD didnt behave great but they clearly did not crown Hitler. Also if you believe the fascism of the future will be Nazi then you are as deluded as the people that run around and claim every conservative is a fascist.

Get over, leftism is a subculture and as such it will have activism, create something better instead of denying the reality of real fascist movements and groups. No one will ever listen to you if you deny them the right to defend against people that attack them and destroy their communities. No one will listen to you if you try to argue that you should let Nazis dominate the media whenever they make a demonstration instead of the counter demonstrations. Building a movement is about constantly showing that you are stronger together and you do that through actvism.

...

Whatever suits you, buddy. I'm sure LARPers like Spencer will end up creating the Fourth Reich in the USA. I bet you've fallen for the Trump = fascist meme, too.

Uh oh, someone hasn't read their history.

Oh, and when the SPD wasn't welcoming the NSDAP into the fold, it had figures like Hindenburg supporting the monarchy is supposedly opposed. Really makes one think, doesn't it?

I don't and never have. In fact, I don't think fascism will come back any time soon, because it does not need to. See, today, a simple right-populist incarnation of neoliberalism; more authoritarian and more regulative, more than suffices to uphold capital's contradictions. Fascism was a historical attempt at upholding capital, more than anything.

Well, it sure behaves like one when interpellated idiots like yourself act under its banner, yes.

But no, leftism, or the left, is merely an umbrella term for various political positions. You are under no obligation but the prevailing ideology's interpellations to be an ineffectual LARPer. You have your discipline, and you can very well choose to do something not actually conducive to liberalism or capitalism with your time.

But this political environment does not exist at the present time. It's not relevant.

Maoism has worked and built a superpower

At least you're honest about it.

Not everywhere is the USA. Nazis in germany are stupid enough to even attack the most loved minority the Sorbs here. In some areas they are either supported or ignored by the state.

Do you really think that the right wing of the AfD, the identitarians and other groups like the Institut für Staatspolitik arent paving the way for fascism? You think that there is no danger in ideological unified groups that thrive under an increasingly right wing climate to seize the massive powers of a modern state? Do you just deny the danger and the harm it would do?

you have a really weird definition of crowned.

People like you are why I often agree with leftcoms

What has left communism ever done?

Precisely: you have LARPing thugs commanded by a LARP-tier ideology, and you call this a political movement. wew.

No, because fascism has served its historical purpose, and it can only express itself now as farce. Fascism was a failed attempt at recuperating capital, hence it is a history-specific occurance. Actually spend some time reading the several page-long article I linked instead of asking me questions it answers to.

There is just as much harm in neoliberalism with a left-liberal face as there is with a conservative face. It is quite evident that your struggle is more against repressing capital's ugly face when it needs to show than capital when it shows its habitual, "human" face; which is to say that you have no partial struggle against capital itself that is more than just a load of hot air.

Way to either have shit reading comprehension or be incredibly disingenuous.

My point was that the SPD has always purported itself against both monarchy, fascism and communism, but has in practice only truly been against communism. An example of its support of fascism can be found in the NSDAP's total freedom to do whatever it wanted in German parliament by the SPD, and an example of its support of monarchy can be found in Hindenburg's embracing of monarchy years before, during the first world war. And that this is the same party that popularized anti-fascism: the facade of a movement designed to keep capitalism subservient with "honest" struggles against fascism, while opening its doors to it the second it can.

Being consistent Marxist communists, AKA not creating from the ground up a neoliberal capitalist state under the red banner.

Alternatively:
>every single party in the left communist faction mobilized tens of millions of members in general strikes, support of the labor movement and against the actually existing threat of fascism and its social democratic entryist form

But sure, be proud of the thing your ideology has created. After all, it's better to create a large log of shit than nothing at all, right comrade?

Doing literally nothing is better than doing what Mao did. Mao has soiled the name of communism.

kek

ok

same as a liberal democracies
go and organize your labour movement while your people get killed left and right, try to convince people of internationalism when they are indoctrinated daily by the state apperatus with nationalism of its worst kind, you are the dumbest leftcom I ever talked to

maybe later, I rather engage first with theories that acknowledge real life

Sick arguments there, buddy.

>no one else
It completely beats me that the majority of people, imbued with a definition of fascism synonymous to "when capitalism gets an ugly face", are who define fascism for you, buddy. But sure, keep making an appeal to popular ignorance. Why not let the average Joe define what communism is, why don't you? Oh, wait, you wouldn't: situational appeals to popular ignorance is all you dare to do.

Kek.

It's more than apparent that you're a well off middle class western liberal. You've never been to a post-east block rightard country like the one I live in. The ones where thugs waving fascist symbolatry are actually violent on a large scale, and even then are largely repressed by the legal apparatus of these post-Soviet liberal democracies because contemporary capitalism has no use for fascism.

The only place where thugs with swastika tattoos roam unfettered is in places like separatist Ukraine, and that's literally only because it's a warzone. They are otherwise completely ineffectual. What isn't ineffectual is the consistent domination of international capital; something you only address well after your favorite pet peeves of skinhead thugs and other LARPers, and then only with pretense. You do not truly care about toppling capitalism with those priorirites, let alone truly care about properly understanding world-systemic conditions of existence. You fell for the any instance of capitalism with an ugly face = fascism meme, and that's the only place you'll ever stand unless you actually use your noggin.

The nazi larpers and fascist idiots are the foot soldiers and allies of the proto fascist(as in ultra nationalist, unified population through force, controlled by a capitalist party that seeks to reshape culture and society along ethnic lines ect.) groups organising the reactionary force that will crush us beneath their feet when capitalism looses its nice face. Self defense is and will be necessary, you would know that if you would actually try to organise anything instead of whining. All your moralising how anyone that thinks about selfdefense and trying to organise isnt a real socialist is the attitude of someone who fears trying more than loosing.

Antifa work isnt revolutionary and no one claims that besides you, but it creates the movement and the people that will actually act, that can act when there is an oppertunity. Who do you think popularizes the idea that fascism comes from(and thus is) capitalism and that capitalism can only be opposed by socialism? Reading whiners that hate talking to people?

Also, stop assuming things, seeing most of eastern europe made it clear to me that local organising is possible and powerful if done right.

Not everyone has to turn into a leftcom with your experience, otherwise there would be many more of your kind.

Also: "Our task is that of ruthless criticism, and much more against ostensible friends than against open enemies"

You gotta arive at some result eventually though

Have you ever actually conversed with antifa thugs? This reeks of wew.

Anti-fascism has never bred a movement for much of anything. In fact, just as it was designed for it, it has done the opposite. Another prime example of which can be found in the other article I posted in the OP, speaking of anti-fascism in Spain, which I'll repost here for your convenience: international-communist-party.org/English/Texts/SpainBil.htm

The only thing that has historically ever properly stood in opposition to fascism is the labor movement, composed of various socialist, communist, anarchist, etc. tendencies. Because it is only these movements which have primal allegiance to the struggle of labor, which is antithetical to that of capital. The difference, my dear friend, is that fascism is but a facet of capital, while anti-fascism hits upon only the ugly face of capital. Anti-fascism is a true illness of the worker's movement, which as I've explained before, explains entirely while it is wholly incapable of anything but interpellated thuggery. There are no serious politics behind it and there never will be.

Hah, I'm sorry buddy, but just because I'm opposed to activism in all of its forms doesn't mean I'm opposed to the labor movement.

For what, but maintaining the local sanctity of liberal democracy with a pretty face, and then entirely enabled and tolerated by bourgeois authority?

You don't have to be a left communist, buddy. All you have to do is be receptive of historical lessons and their display of left wing failures to oppose capital, and how it is these failures only which have enabled fascism, and furthermore that fascism will not return any time soon and we will instead simply see a gradual hegemonic shift towards right-populist neoliberalism instead of left-liberal neoliberalism.

I don't know where you got this version of the quote, but mine comes from the marxists.org archive which is noted to be a direct German translation.

The only place to start is with a proper body of theory which rests on a comprehensive understanding of historical left wing ineptitude. Only then can we formulate what is to be done.

Mao was a hero

I agree

but leftcoms are still shit

I know about Swedish antifa that regularly attacks eastern european migrant workers because apparently having very short hair cuts means you are a nazi.

Shush now. It is all in due time, comrade. The more you read and critique, the closer you'll get to that cheap antique armchair purchase, and then to the fine reigns of the ultra left.

stop consuming capitalist propaganda man

ok seems like you are operating on a completely different definition of antifa than I am

Its attacking the most visible faults of capitalism to recruit people and create a organisation thoroughly grounded in the proletariat instead of useless party organisations that dont prepare people for the far harder fight after the old powers have been overthrown.

I agree but I take different teachings from leftist past failures than you

Wrog, nationalism will allways be the last and most powerful defenseline of capitalism, and taken to its full extend it will allways result in fascism. As the logic of nationalism needs the unification of the state and people into one. You are to convinced of the stabillity of the current particular capitalist mode.

Btw your version of the quote is a shortend but direct translation of the original.

I proceed to ask that faggot what he thinks propaganda of the deed is and he never answered

u are worst ancom

Feels good

Yes, smashing property accomplishes nothing except triggering normies for a day before they go back to watching TV and following pop culture. It's a waste of time and you would save energy trolling twitter or playing vidya if you wanted something fun to do.

But how are we supposed to build a revolutionary organization from the armchair? You've mentioned the labor movement and I'd say that could be a good way to draw in people in, but how to we go about building one without engaging in any political activity or pushing for any reforms like less hours or more pay? It would seem butthurt over Trump and disillusionment with the democratic party has created the potential for radicalization, but other than reccomending they read leftist lit what can be done to EAO them?

I'll be honest and say the most I've done is get people to try Marx or the bread book and haven't left my armchair, other than a few fights with hicks when I was younger.

Another crucial Marx quote here I also find very relevant and always pertinent to support criticism of the left as leftists:

Marx and [I have] fought harder all our lives against the alleged Socialists than against anyone else. (Engels to Bebel in Leipzig, 1882)

The content thereof signaling precisely that the left's biggest enemy is the left itself, because more harm is done for the cause of emancipatory politics by its own supposed adherrents than by the hands of its opponents.

When we can historically review the success of fascism, especially in hindsight, as not a political movement, but as an organic reaction enabled entirely by left wing impotence when it came to proper organization, we know we are beyond fucked. And when we speak of organization, we speak of proper politics: politics that, for the cause of an actual post-capitalism, actually target capitalism, instead of merely mediating as yet another sledgehammer against an uglier version of capitalism as nothing but interpellated useful idiot subjects.

I will say it again: it was the absence of a strong KPD, defeated by social democracy, that let the masses be subdued by fascism's otherwise organic coming into being, not the absence of enough LARP on LARP action in the streets of Berlin between left-liberal useful idiots and right-populist useful idiots. These were never real political players at all, and neither are the Richard Spencers, Milo Yanapoopoolooses and other manchildren of today.

Proving once again that leftcoms truly are the best posters.

There is nothing wrong with pushing for reform per sé. However, there is a problem with pushing for social democrats to make reforms for us.

When we leave the working class's gripes with the system of capital as an issue to be solved by its pretty-faced vanguard (social democrats or other centre-left reformists), we go nowhere, and effectively surrender any long term political vigor from the working class to be recuperated by the system.

congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-joint-resolution/10/text

Quick, who can we impotently punch to stop this??? Should we throw a garbage bin through a Starbucks window or a Gap window to stop it???

KDP was made inpotent by retarded Stalinist policies, it suffered under massive loss of membership after it got coopted by Stalinists and adopted the biggest failure of leftism ever, the social fascism theory.

Also you seem to think that any just because fascism is an organic reaction means that it doesnt needs dedicated organisations and people using the situation.

Next you are looking at authentic (ie. organised left wing radical not liberals) antifa reaction as some kind of divorced thing from worker struggles when it is the tool to maintain the unity of the working class and thus increasing its power. Just like activism is the first frontline to prevent fascists from gathering support, useless without an org and movement behind it but still necessary.

Politics in its current form is impotent, either its outsourced to parties that replace the workers as the acting group or populism that denies the agency of the worker. Only through democratic organisation at a local level together with the dedication to actually take power you will change anything.

I suggest we beat up more LARPers on the street. Speaking of which, I hear Spencer's going out for dinner with his mom at Olive Garden on second street this weekend. We should totally, like, go there and punch him again guys!

TFW even mainstream mild left-wing commentators are seeing just how impotent and hollow these spergouts are: counterpunch.org/2017/01/27/the-politics-of-a-punch-richard-spencer-and-the-black-bloc/

The right-wing nationalists that peacefully demonstrate aren't fascists.

The skinhead Hitler fanboys/LARPers aren't fascists.

The alt-right aren't fascists.

Trump supporters aren't fascists.

The closest thing to fascists today are islamists. Like the ones in London that demand shari'a law and an islamic caliphate.

Holla Forums pls go

He's right

This is what you have done leftcom, do you feel guilty allready?

If you think that then you're both retarded, although you've probably ust thrown that flag on and are samefagging.

go back to reddit liberal

Go back to Holla Forums.

nah, islamism in the west is utterly meaningless in comparison to the radical christian rightwing.

Explain how an autocracy that openly promotes discrimination, slavery and violence against the outgroup isn't fascist?

The KPD died to social democrat-led Freikorps units that killed its upper echelons of organization. While Stalinist coopting managed to make them even less effective than they already were after that point, it is entirely irrelevant.

It is irrelevant because when I speak of left wing impotence in providing a strong alternative working class movement to fascist appeal to go alongside its already organic composition, it does not matter what form this impotence comes in. Whereas in Germany it was the KPD and its loss to social democracy and then a weakened Stalinist base, in Belgium it was an insufficiently appealing PvdA, in Italy a PCd'I, PCI and PSI struck down by Mussolini's arsenal of Italian state and enterprise offenses (later funded even more by German state and enterprise), etc.

Even Zizek recognizes this, when he says that every reactionary victory is born from the corpse of a failed left wing battle against its then ultimate fate.

Honestly, there's more of a fascistic tone behind the politics of Islamic fundamentalism than there is behind skinhead thuggery. And that is doubly so because Islamic fundamentalism has a very much organic funding found out of middle eastern oligarchies.

I still don't think it's much of a threat, however: there is no deeper interest behind its financed support than an ideological one.

Why would I have to explain something I've never claimed?
Again, if you hold London muzzo spergs posting up SHARIA PATROL stickers like a bunch of larpers as a high priority, you need to go back to Holla Forums.
Stop changing your fucking flag

there's actually three different people here calling you a retard

and you did claim that if we think political islam is the closest thing to fascism today then we're retarded

This is a mistake.

There's a grassroots campaign to put pressure on Breitbart's advertisers that has so far convinced 818 companies to no longer sponsor the website.

They've done far more than you LARPers ever will.

Yes, the sponsorship companies will be our saviours

Dont you belong in a gamergate thread somewhere

...

Yes the LARPers hitting women with flagpoles will be our saviours

Don't you belong in an /r/socialism thread somewhere

Sorry, I guess I must have mistaken one of the retarded ancoms for one of the other retards shitting the place up regularly.
These people are a joke and so are you.

Really sets the neurons ablaze. I was obviously mistaken thinking London was in the West.

Breitbart pays Milo's salary.

There's a key word here that youre intentionally ignoring to make yourself look like youre right

It's "like"

The "like" is being used in a comparative fashion

Perhaps you should learn english

It's not like the Western capitalists are in the process of inviting millions of """syrian""" """refugees""" into Europe.

Funny how there's multiple people on the board in at least two threads trying to change the topic from the West and fascism to radical Islam.

Because true-blue fascism will never again rise in the West. Much to Holla Forums disappointment.

If you can properly recognize white right wing LARPers as a joke, so can you recognize brown/Islamic right wing LARPers as a joke.

But you can't, because unlike the white right wing LARPers, Islamic fundamentalism, while fascistic or not, has actual massive funding from n.b. Sunni and Wahhabist treasuries.

political islam is pretty fucking fashy
to say it isnt is stupid

Islamists are far less dangerous than these people en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_for_National_Policy and will remain a useless minority for decades to come, no one will gain power on their backs. Hyping them up is just furthering rightwing muh islamisation fears.

Just because every rightwing victory is a failure of the left does not mean that every past leftist movement was wrong about everything. Stop believing the myths that in every prole there is a dedicated revolutionary.

Yes a few million refugees will create a caliphate in europe kek, thats even more retarded than thinking Nazis will suddenly gain power

While I agree with this we aren't particularly close to any serious movement by them, as far as proximity is concerned. To me it seems like Holla Forums whataboutery to derail threads, because we do regularly have threads on Islam and the middle east in general.

...

The period of Social Darwinism is over. There was no recent wave of commie revolutions. There is no Treaty of Versailles-tier diplomatic shitshow hanging over us.

Actual fascism can not and will not rise in the West.

It still can get really fucking oppressive, totalitarian and shitty.

Yeah. As a fault of capitalists, and this "irenic dictatorship" bullshit that western governments and liberals are pushing.

wow yeah so effective! say, how many socialist revolutions have you guys caused thus far?

punching Nazis is a public service, sure. but it doesn't help the movement one iota, being "not fascist" has got basically nothing to do with being socialist. and all the retarded table flipping window smashing black bloc antics literally set the movement back and accomplish nothing whatsoever, other than being an adrenaline rush and stress blowoff for angsty hormonal children who want to be the hero of their own story. if you want to "recruit" more thugs, more pent-up kids that just want their turn to bash something, set something on fire and get away with it by dissolving into a crowd, then, yeah, it's great for "recruitment".

Its effective at stopping them, never believe that you cant oppose a movement or a groups of people with violence. Its hated by the liberals because it has a scary effectivness in disrupting and radicalising the political sphere and the usual conduct of discourse. Which can be useful in some rare situations.

But yes, its not revolutionary at all. Its a tactic to be deployed in specific situations or for self defense.

My god
Stop buying into pure memology

It's more helpful to the actual revolution than is immediately obvious. Not everyone is going to be Lenin, despite every leftcom wanting to be, we need about (and I did the math here, this is an accurate number) five hundred crap tons more people similar to Ivan the drunk rifleman than wannabe leaders of the vanguard.
Where do you get those? Yes, you want them to read, but no, you don't chase after cowardly nerds for that, you get people who are already willing to make an immediate change to their lives and then make them read. So you can get them like this. It's easy. It works. If for some reason you want to commit mass violence without thugs or angry kids, be my guest, but you'll be running for office instead.

you say that like it has so much potential. what exactly are you planning on having them do, grab an AK and storm the nearest capitol building?

just how many of these black bloc hooligans have ever done anything illegal for the movement other than starting street fights, breaking windows and setting cars on fire? on the other hand, how many of them are going to be at all revolutionary ten years from now, and how many of them will be just working a 9 to 5 and paying taxes?

Eventually yes.
You want them to do something more? They're there. Angry. Just waiting to be turned into dedicated men and women. The only reason they'd abandon it ten years later is if for some reason nobody ever came along and started a book club/activist group with them.

That first image. Anyone who tries to take away fun deserves chastity. the painful kind. That is the kind of social authoritarianism that makes people hate your movement.

Do you even know what ultra means?
Kek
probably burger

I kind of agree with this. They're ready to form a fucking army, they're just uneducated. The only ones to blame here for that are "intellectuals" who don't go educate them about proper leftism so they direct their action to the proper cause in an organized manner.

Pretty sure he isn't talking about footy ball ultas.

See:

And no, I'm a Croat and a communist, not a football thug. Denk you very much.

Their numbers are growing very rapidly thanks to immigration.

leftcoms get the bullet too