Any MMORPGs that aren't grindy Skinner's Box simulators?

This is so incorrect that I don't know where to begin.

Where do you think you are ?

man, you're still getting paid to shill that garbage or are you doing it out of habit now?

Definitely not cuckchan. MMOs are games for cunts, if you're playing them you're a fucking faggot. They're intrinsically and inherently feminine games.

come one, the whole genre is cancer

I share the same sentiment as user, and the goons played EVE Online.

You really sound like you're overcompensating.

Guild Wars is dead.
So no. There isn't.

Build a time machine and return to 2006.

I like that game as much as the next guy but let's not be disingenuous.
2.5 second cooldown. :^)

there's actually a half dozen i can name, but im salty and bitter about them and their devs for various reasons and i really dont want to give them advertising. Pretty low playerbases on most of them.

Just play maplestory, at least you get to kill cute shit.

Maybe look at Dofus, it's turn-based strategy so while it's not rocket surgery you generally can't just faceroll harder things without any thought. As far as MMO combat goes it's some of the best and doesn't suffer as much from lag. Besides that it's grindy and suffers from the fact lots of people multibox (play multiple characters at once). But it's free of a lot of the shit plaguing modern MMOs.

Aha. I have the fix for you. Get some nice guys and play D&D together. Preferably one that has experience and can teach others. The story crafting and imagination is what makes the adventure fun, and the combat is unexpected sometimes, and is for the story. Items, loot, armor, weps are all secondary. I only played D&D for a month or two but it was fun.

if i have to follow markers for 500 hours just to get to the part of the game that isn't skinnerbox shit, then the game IS SKINNERBOX SHIT.

You don't even need to be max level to feel the skinnerbox take a hold of you.
>tfw dopamine levels rise when you get 3 lines on your wondrous tales

Well what "other things"?
Over the years a lot of MMOs gave players non-combat functionality. Ability to roleplay, to set up some non-combat scenarios, to build some shit, to breed/grow shit etc etc.
What players do? Ignore most of that and only concentrate on grinding, only doing side staff that will enhance their grinding.
So over time devs just abandon unused functionality, and then you get new games that don't have it altogether because history showed players ignoring it.

And then there is the whole bot business. Chinks flood anything they can with bots, essentially killing whatever was left after players became bots themselves.

When did such a thing ever exist? Aside from pen and paper games like D&D, I can't think of anything.

Even with its flaws, FFXIV is still the best MMORPG currently. But I realize it is not what the OP is looking for. What the OP is looking for doesn't exist.

The music is a solid 10/10 but let's not assume that the gameplay is also a 10/10. Not to mention the devs really don't give a fuck about balance outside of giving the casuals a leg up and gutting classes for the sake of balance. The game was okay during Heavensward but Stormblood shit the bed in multiple ways. For fuck's sake, even the music is floundering compared to HW and ARR.
THE FUCKED UP SO BAD EVEN THE MUSIC WAS LACKLUSTER. LET THAT SINK IN.

Skinner's box is a sociopolitical faux pas to attempt to attach an immorality to simple joys.

It's fucking trash even by MMO standards.

fag

It may be a skinner box but let's not go stating lies and opinions as fact. The story presentation in FFXIV is so good that Actiblizz flat out stole the presentation method, so if WoW is copying you then you know you are doing something right.

In addition, much like the "boiled frog experiment" a much disregarded note is that the animal was lobotomized before the experiment was performed to ensure the experiment led to the wanted result.

GW2 is the absolute lowest point of online games simply due to the fact that it's run by femenists.
WoW in it's current state is a mirror of whatever the fuck are popular online game trends are. It always was.
Now generic korean shit like Tera or Aion or that fucking censored one, while still being by-the-book skinner boxes, are still multitudes better than FF14.

I'll agree that SB is fairly shitty compared to HW. And further, the game has been seeing a steady decline in developer motivation since somewhere around the middle of HW. I remember the point when they just stopped putting in the extra effort that they usually made. It's actually pretty sad, but no game can have its heyday forever.

At least try to back up your opinions with some facts. All I see is that you don't personally like FFXIV for some reason you refuse to share with us. I have played Tera and Aion. Those fucks are bigger skinner box than even WoW because it's f2p AND run by chinks. Keep the bias out of your arguments.

Faggots claiming FF14 is the best one better present their arguments first.

I love how the "facts" face is the one screaming.

That's just like your opinion, man. FFXIV does its story presentation worlds better than the korean MMOs. It's a story-driven game. But I still enjoy the combat mechanics, even if they are getting rather stale at this point. The only redeeming quality of the korean shit is their combat systems. But without good storytelling and interesting lore, the neat combat systems quickly lose their appeal.

The fact that it's p2p makes it better than f2p garbage like Tera or Aion for the simple fact that huehues can't afford a sub. You can make the argument that it's kikeish and you would be right but the fact remains that it keeps subhumans out. The only ones that leaves are the chinks who sell gold. Even then, a company like SE will just ban that account and rub their hands furiously as the chinks buy another account. Even then the spam would be a lot more tolerable than f2p games and shouts in every zone.

I though the neat combat was too hard for the average FFXIV player and they nerfed the shit out of everything that can't be 4 manned.

I just hope the coming content quickly wraps up the overall story. I don't care to see another expansion (though I would probably play it…). I'd rather they just create a new FF MMO.

It's exactly as in most korean MMOs, worse than in high profile ones.

What does it have to do with the game? Just ignore the hues. And it's not like it still doesn't have a fucking cash shop.

So what made you have an axe to grind against FFXIV? Just about all MMOs now a days are garbage but you seem to want to drive up a personal crusade against a drop in the pile of shit that is modern MMOs. The fact remains that right now FFXIV demands the most mental power out of all the MMOs out when it comes to end game fights. The most Aion had for it was the Warhammer online style pvp at end game and Tera was just a laggy piece of shit only retards played.

KEK. As shit as SB is, it's leagues better than the start of HW.
SB>>>>HW
SB>HW
SB>>>HW
SB>>>>>>HW
SB=HW
SB=HW
SB is still shit, ARR was the only time this game was good. But fuck anyone who seriously thinks the start of HW is better than SB.

Because korean skinner boxes and their fans are honest about their shit.
FF14 is built on lies and its drones lie through their fucking teeth as well.
Even the game itself just won't let you do things it implies you can do.
It's fucking horrible.
It's not open world, it won't let play all the classes right off the bat, it won't let you play the fucking card game without grinding it, you're still expected to pay for pets and shit, it doesn't have boobs physics, or any physics for that matter, it's trash.

Now I remembered that other korean mmo - Blade and Soul. Western publisher sweared on their mums it won't be censored, and the first thing they did out of the gate - was censorship.
Hilariously enough, korean version got censored shortly afterwards, and I didn't care about it since then.
FF14 is on that tier of cancer.

Nah, SB really dropped the ball and it doesn't look like it will change.

WEW LAD
E
W

L
A
D

So what was it? Did a FFXIV player call you a faggot? Right now you are just sounding like a hothead who is appealing to emotion.

So much crying about FFXIV. But it's still the best MMORPG out currently ;^)

I liked the HW story a lot better than SB. And SB is just a rehash of the same old progression formula they discovered in HW.

Yup. I don't see people saying it is open world.
Oh no you have to get to level 15 first before you can level other classes. The horror.
Except you do play the game. You grind the card game while playing it.
Yeah the cash shop is cancer.
But there is, it's just not over the top flopping about like a pair of balloons like wank bait Korean shit.

Alexander itself was cool. The first raid tier was shit. Boring boss designs, boring arena design, over tuned raid fights.
What? Have you not been doing Savage? Shit introduced as much if not more than the first part of Alex did. I'll agree with the music though.

I would agree that the full HW plot was good, but the 3.0 part was really weak. Which is what I'm comparing since only 4.0 is out.

I'm curious about something, are there any decent class based PvE games?
Because it seems to me every MMO I play is in search of something like that, and yet the mmos are repetitive, not really fun to play and have barely much in the way of player interaction besides "having more of a team=more damage! except you can solo this shit no biggie anyways!"

I stopped playing during 3.4 or whenever the alex storyline was done and just peaked my head in when hearing about Omega. I will say that out of all the skinerboxes I have played FFXIV is the shiniest of them all but after trying out SB a few weeks ago I'm glad I didn't keep my sub up. The two new primals were neat but tuning was all over the place and Omega could have been real fucking neat but instead we got "we like the dissida franchise and plan to milk this shit for a long while." Though like I said, FFXIV may have a lot of faults but out of all of the modern MMO shit there is now it's a good option to scratch that autistic grind itch when an ARPG like Grim Dawn or Diablo 2 isn't enough.
For the love of god, just play an ARPG instead of a MMO.

I wanted to say Warframe, but they really fucking homogenized everything during the years.
I guess there is still that healslut trinity, and shieldslut frost, but every single one of other 30 frames is a "clear a room with 1 button" damage dealer.
Actually frost is one too, so, yeah.

When the emotional one is so deep in their coddled irreal hugbox mentality sometimes the only option is to shout the truth at them until they break.

Closest things i could think of is Myst Online: Uru (it might be dead by now but look it up). Might also want to look into EA games like Conan Exiles
There are some non-violent mmos but most of them are sadly shit

For what?

holy……..i just started this game and haven't noticed that before.
don't tell me those are supposed to be her eyes.

overdosed on anime

its the same shit as every other MMO, you follow markers and read text, occasionally pianoing your hotkeys on an enemy or interacting with an object.

its trash and people only play it because of the pretty graphics.

They could just be cameras that display an image in front of her normally placed real eyes.

It is undoubtedly more of the same old shit. But it's the most palpable in its presentation of that shit.

Damn it. Meant for say palatable.

tl;dr: the graphics are pretty so i'll pay 15 to oogle them

...

Shit/10 bait

when you boil it down, the presentation is just the visuals and the music, i don't think you can really praise the shit writing in the localization.

so yes, it IS the graphics. thousands of people are paying 15$ a month + the initial game fee to look at pretty graphics

what are you talking about the writing is garbage, they fall into every shonen pitfall. They kill off characters creating melodrama just to bring them back later the sultana comes to mind as the largest example.

More like the only example.
The majority of the "deaths" are permanent and not merely plot devices. The saddest was the death of Haurchefant.

And Milfina, and all of the scions

Unless you're referencing when characters disappear for unexplained reasons. But none of them were presumed dead.

Yes. I thought of this. But everyone held out hope that they were not actually killed.

remember that great warriors of darkness questline? the one that went nowhere and was just a filler chain?

It was a letdown. But it wasn't really part of the dragonsong war. So it's fairly forgettable. I don't care that much about Minfilia anyways.

I mean the issue is that the story even in Jap is horrible, you have decent parts but a majority is just filler until the next thing.

TBH, I lose interest in the game more and more quickly after every major content patch. It just doesn't feel very inspired anymore. I wish they would stop fucking around and hurry up and wrap up the overall war with the Empire AND the conflict between Hydaelyn and Evil Black Crystal Thing. Though the crystal conflict doesn't really seem capable of ever being resolved. It seems like a Yin Yang philosophy of balance. Either side gaining too much power ruins the world. At least the Empire should be resolvable.

oh man the class balance right now is another shitshow.
Really if the game's not bad enough to convince you the excuse they pulled out of their ass for why they swapped tank damage back to STR should've killed it for you
"VIT giving HP and damage would cause tanks to have too much hp" (ignore that you can't get more vit on any piece of tank gear as it's all maxed out so there wouldn't have been any bloat because there aren't any gear choices period)

It takes more than this to kill it for me. Cause I still enjoy the gameplay the first several times I clear content. But then it gets old fast. But really this is just how I feel about all MMORPGs in general. The genre as a whole has lost its appeal to me, mostly.

All MMOs are now just skinner boxes. If you missed pre-UO:R Ultima Online you might never see anything like it in your lifetime as it doesn't print money.

I saw some live GM events back in Everquest with GMs doing one-time custom events with one-time custom title rewards for players. Things that people would shit bricks over if it were to happen now. But this was back in like 2000/2001. I've never seen anything like it since then. GMs never actually physically change things in the game world anymore. It's too much of a liability, I guess.

These events were stuff like GMs spawning mobs that were actually being controlled by the GMs themselves. Or the GMs appearing as deities or whatever and fighting the players. And I believe they rewarded players based on their own discretion and event participation.

Yeah, it was a carry-over from MUDs where the Gods were expected to interact with the players to make a living world. UO had a similar 'Seer' system and would run unique player events. Here's screenshots I took of one such event:
belan.variadic.org/farewell/uzeraan1.html
The issue was scale. "Pocket Seers" was a big issue as they were easily corrupted as they had much less skin in the game compared to MUD Gods. As an e-celeb back then I got to see how that worked as they'd try the same on me. Girls would send them homemade porn to get unique features for their player-run towns. The girl running the largest player-run town on Napa Valley used to send me things like video of her fucking a candle in hopes I'd hang around.

Back then I only attended a few because they were usually buggy lag-fests with the GMs warping all over the place and giant swarms of players chasing them. But I kind of wish I hadn't ignored so many, since this kind of thing never happens anymore except on Minecraft servers…

I think the bigger thing you probably missed were player-run events. They used to be common and highly organized and it was fucking amazing.
belan.variadic.org/pirate1.html

I see. I didn't have internet access faster than dial up until 1999 (in college). So I only played single player games mostly. I was totally unaware of MUDS, and I never played any MMO before Everquest. I was a kid back then anyways.

I hacked the University of California Riverside in the early '90s via dialup to their library information system to get a real internet connection and got to experience some amazing times. It was a completely different world back then.

You mean you tried password like "password" and "admin" until something worked :^)?

Puzzle Pirates just got a new PVP based ocean with limited poker

Puzzle pirates was kind of neat but it's basically just avatar dress-up+chat and flash tier puzzle games. I can appreciate that unlike any other MMO I can think of performance is purely skill based, there's no grinding for shit just to be competitive, but you have to really like puzzles for it to have long term appeal.

No. 'Hacking' was a lot easier back then, though. They had a system to connect to other machines on the network but didn't realize they had also allowed entering a port. So I was able to connect to their mailserver on port 25 and send email to the admin with a fake From: header (nothing was authenticated back then and every service was public) asking them to create an account for a student. Someone did, no idea who since I couldn't get replies, and I used that account to dump the NIS database as they hadn't secured ypcat. I ran some password cracker on that (the predecessor to john the ripper, I forget the name) and got some accounts that had a history showing they had sudo access (or maybe su? I forget). I added a fake binary in their path to catch them entering the root password and I was good to go.
I used that access to… learn network programming. I wound up with a career in networking. Fun times.

He's right though, you're a cunt. Piss off with your faggot cunt genre.

Are you suggesting someone develops an MMO with diverse and challenging but rewarding gameplay rather than a series of repetitive tasks designed the hook brain-dead unemployed NEETs in order to gain their resigned and disappointed parent's hard earned shekels?

I don't think you understand how the MMO industry works, user…

pre-NGE star wars galaxies is for my money the best MMORPG ever made. the crafting system is genius, the non-combat professions have actual use, and you can easily play like three different classes to max level without ever getting into combat

...

Asheron's Call has two server emulator projects going pretty well… It's pre-WoW MMO so it has several years worth of non-fetch quests.

Milfina became a fucking bitch when she became the avatar of the crystal. The warriors of darkness did absolutely nothing wrong.

I remember why they stopped that. A few super autists would camp the spawning area and the majority of the server never saw the event unless they take those people into account. It was easier for them to give up rather than engaging in an autistic arms race to beat the 1% that run the population.