DSA 15k

DSA surpassed 15,000 due-paying members today. They have more than doubled their membership in the past 6 months, and hundreds of new organizing committees and chapters have been formed across the US since Trump's victory, with many bringing out anywhere from 60 in places like Iowa to 400+ in Chicago and NYC.

Find your chapter + Join the Left Caucus today to help form a mass socialist organization.

dsausa.org/chapters

dsausa.nationbuilder.com/join

twitter.com/DemSocialists

Other urls found in this thread:

dsausa.org/we_fight_for_socialism_dl_npc
internationalsocialist.org/
dsausa.org/get_involved
youtu.be/7WWtqYbcefM?t=650
youtube.com/watch?v=iBzmKVYFpFY
jacobinmag.com/2016/11/bernie-sanders-democratic-labor-party-ackerman/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

Is the DSA social democratic or democratic socialist? Are they revolutionary's or reformist?

Democratic Socialist,reformists

So actual democratic socialists not Bernie style social democrats?

Join demsoc communities to radicalize members? They already allegedly have the same endgoal we do.

I'm hoping to turn them into leninist's.

The DemSocs want to abolish capitalism.

Left Caucus is Marxist and wants to build an independent socialist party. The org itself is very broad people have different political ideologies. People have different opinions about strategy but officially they are reformist

Some members already are Leninists.

Well openly advertising yourself as revolutionary's seems like a bad idea.

I'm not bashing lenin or leninists, but I think the 21st century needs some updated theory. Even if it's "neo-leninism" fuck, I can't hold the laughter in that sounds so stupid

Theirs nothing wrong with van-guard party's they just need to be more democratic.

Lots more are probably liberals and socdems.

Do they have serious revolutionary potential?

There is no difference, DemSocs turn into SocDems the moment they get anywhere near power. Consider Europe for many examples of this.

Officially multi-tendency, and with the huge influx of new members it would be hard to gauge what the general consensus is. Multi-Tendency is actually true, meaning how left they are depends on the chapter.

Certainly democratic socialist, revolution is the final goal but "anti-capitalist structural reforms" (that's the language they use internally) is the short term goal to "take power away from corporations and put it in the hands of working people". So they would not officially get behind something like Hillary's free public college for under 125k/yr or Obamacare, but they would support reforms like free public college as a right, $15 minimum wage, bringing healthcare under common ownership, etc.

It was the far left wing of capital during the days of its founder Michael Harrington. He was just bad and a socdem. A lot has changed since then.

Also you can always just get connected with the left caucus who are all outright marxists who refuse collaboration with Dem Party.

They're coming, buckos

Surely Lenin's theory goes beyond >vangards

Should turn them into MLs, tbh.

Yes, but almost no one here actually reads theory.

It pretends to adhere to both but instead adheres to neither.

I hope they don't absorb the CPUSA or even get near them any time soon.

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I don't know. They could probably be subverted.

What is Stalin doing in that picture?

What does he look like he's doing?

I can't tell.

Truly intellectual.

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Why would they do that?

You're trolling right?

ugh.
What is "The Band Wagon Argument?"
Final answer.

Maybe tell me why I should care about this demsoc/socdem organization.

Maybe links to activites, or ideals or something.

Just telling me "its getting yuuuuge" doesnt motivate me.

not sure this is sarcasm or not

yeah no.

I don't see it at all. I don't think anyone in leadership sees a reason to, especially since many of them value their (bad) but somewhat long tradition.

Apparently some independent leftists, among them Doug Henwood, tried to reach out to the owners of the CPUSA building in NYC in order to revitalize it as a building for the broad socialist left which flew red flags outside and was used as an organizing space. They got turned down by the ancient joint owners of the building. CPUSA is strange as hell.

Ever since the soviet union cut their funding they have gone far down hill. Now its 50% FBI and 40% liberals and the last 10% is socialists.

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I agree, it's just difficult making a case for any org since leftypol is not totally united in beliefs. DSA is hard to pinpoint too.

My intended point was that socialisms rise is manifesting in DSA, and it's democratic structure and lack of any sectarianism means it's good for any socialist organizing or networking. Activities really depend on the chapter, but you can very easy have influence at your local chapter and make your case for what is the current priority.

If you want to read something to get a sense if they are worth joining:

dsausa.org/we_fight_for_socialism_dl_npc

Should I join?

they are hardly revolutionary in any capacity and about as limp anti capitalists as the dems.save your time and money honestly

But raising some awareness that socialism exists might be nice.

don't listen to sectarian retards. join anyone you want. the left will be won/lost on

1. local engagement more than national engagement, and at the local level sectarian differences don't matter when you're just cleaning the water supply or helping a workers' strike
2. coalition building such that multiple leftist groups are engaged and cooperating on the same issues

OK. thanks. The only other socialist party seems to be the communist party USA.

not true, Socialist Alternative and ISO are both relatively active as well

whatever you do DO NOT join CPUSA

I know about socialist alternative but whats ISO?

literally the same thing

internationalsocialist.org/

Lurk more.

Nah. Democratic socialists didn't kill Rosa and they eventually want to get rid of capitalism.

blow me

Whats the membership on socialist alternative and ISO?

ISO had about 1000 pre-election I think. They are pretty active on universities. I have no idea about SA but I'd say they're bigger.

thanks. ill read up on it.

Also,
>dsausa.org/get_involved
Issues of identity or particular political interests
identity and politcs
participate in idpol
What did they mean by that?

varies heavily from city to city. go to your local chapter and feel them out. again, ideological differences matter less than activity at the local level so ignore the name and join the one willing to do something in your city

DSA national writes these agenda, local chapters are largely autonomous and focus on what the membership want them to. More or less it ends up with them lending nominal support against anti-lgbt or race discrimination legislation as part of a much broader plan.

In my city for example it's 99% focus on housing and labor union issues

"identity politics" is not necessarily bad as long as it isn't used to diminish class solidarity

>dsausa.org/get_involved
Quite honestly, this just turned me off. I started to read up on DSAUSA, and I got to that page and I think im done reading about them.

Are there any reasons why I should want to join an organization that claims:
participate in identity based politics
at the top of their "get involved" page?

The proletariat knows no gender, religion, sexual orientation, race or age

see


and if not, join SAlt or ISO or the IWW if it isn't in shambles and interface heavily with the other groups.

yes, spooky politics is good.
Its absolutely natural to separate people into smaller groups based on their personal identities.
When people ignore their differences and ban together united as one, only bad things can happen.

This may be kinda faggy, but I've never been to a socialist meeting in person before. If I were to join up with something like DSA, what should I expect from meetings and such?
Also at what point are you expected to commit? Do you have to pay just to get in the door, or can you sit in a while to get a feel for things first?

They have workshops about feminism, LGBT, Race, religion etc. that you can be a part of. That doesn't mean they think identity>class.

the thing about the DSA is it's the least centrally controlled of all the socialist parties and with the least defined platform, so any dedicated group can go and wield them for proper socialist purposes given the right effort

It advocated for communism you dipshit.

You must make regular payment to be a member. The first meeting is free, additional meetings require membership fee. fee is based upon personal income.

also, free DSA magazine included with membership

If you think that turning the Democratic party into a workers party (lol) is tactically sound, then by all means join DSA. If not, then consider joining a marxist party like pic related

I have heard that as long as you're paying dues, you can be as active or inactive as you want, without any sort of pressure to commit. This, in my view, is a weakness of the organization. Especially when DSA is so politically divided between its socialists and left-liberals.

I also have heard that the Left Caucus is relatively small compared to the 15,000 rank-and-file.

You mean, I cant throw a fresh coat of paint and new rims on my 22 year old Mazda B2400 and claim its "Like new, runs great?"

communism is democracy you fucking mongoloid

yeah no trots are trash fam

Apparently after this election there are rumblings of just flat out abandoning this strategy

Okay both SALT and DSA are active in my city. Why should I join your club other than the fact Harringtonians currently run DSA? I actually like Lenin and Trotsky but in my experience trots really are sectarian. What's up with the CWI rape scandal as well?

literally who cares, go to both to check out and join/work with the one you get along with

I plan on doing just that. I just wanted to hear his response.

You should join Socialist Alternative because DSA will soon hit a wall, when they inevitably are betrayed by the party that they are trying to reform. When this happens they will splinter into separate factions, and the party will be very demoralized. 15,000 members is great, but from what I hear DSA expects much much less commitment from it's members than other Socialist parties. Many political celebrities like Cornell West and a couple others have jumped on the bandwagon.

Like what said. There already seem to be fissures forming in DSA over this question. The left caucus of DSA is only about 6% the whole organization. I highly suspect you will agree much more with those people than the rest of the rank-and-file, which is contaminated with left-liberals.

SA has from DAY ONE said that the democratic party has always been an instrument of the capitalist class, and therefore cannot be "taken back". SA focuses on organizing out side of the Democratic Party for this exact reason. DSA were literally shilling for Hillary during the election.

I have not heard of a CWI rape scandal. You may be thinking of the SWP.

SA shilling for Bernie was pretty funny to watch too

As I've explained multiple times, DSA is shifting it's strategy away from national politics to local and away from electoral politics in general. The goal of the DSA isn't "to reform the Democratic party" and many chapters do no work with the local Dems outside of finding locals to run against the incumbent dems, hardly a friendly relationship

my big issue with the DSA is that they don't allow democratic centralists

I'll make sure to check out both parties thanks.

I know about the SWP scandal from a few years ago where China Mieville and Richard Seymour formed the opposition and later left. I few people on here mentioned a CWI rape scandal maybe it's BS I don't really know.


Really not such a bad thing It got groups more members and people radicalized. The Jill Stein shilling was more funny.


I believe they don't allow you to be a member of a democratic centralist party. They don't care if you like Lenin.

When Bernie supporters realize that trying to use the democratic party as an instrument for pro-worker politics is a fucking dumb idea, some of them will draw alternate conclusions, like the need for general strikes, revolutionary action, and an independent socialist party with no ties to big capital. Those three things are basically SA's position. Not all Bernie supporters will reach this conclusion but many will, and many already have. This is why SA talks to Bernie supporters.


Source?

conversations I've had as part of the organization? I'm sorry I can't link you my phone convos

for the record I'd be perfectly happy to see the SA grow, I'm just trying hard to rebuild coalitions and try to get the SA to stop seeing their DSA sister chapters as just ineffectual liberals by refocusing efforts on grassroots local work.

DSA needs to stop being ineffectual liberals tho

So you can't find any thing on their website/social media about this massive shift in tactics? No convention documents or anything? I find that odd.

Classic trot sectarianism

classic socdem perfidy

Sorry I need to go wipe this blood off my hands.

jesus fuck will you two stop being autistic for one second. I'm saying I'm heavily involved in the DSA and 8 of our 9 last events/initiatives were done in tandem

this online LARPing faggotry doesn't help

new strategy is still being developed. now is the time for real leftists to go in and guide the process. like i said organization is very decentralized

Oh, look, it’s not another “Did someone literally mention identity REEEE” sperg-out from leftypol.

As much as I believe that idpol is COINTELPRO designed to screw up the left, this sort of idpol-allergic bullshit is, in this case, LITERALLY refusing to join a socialist group just because they mention identity.

DSA is hardly idpol-spooked. In fact, DSA is often considered the “brocialists” of the modern left by woke tumblrites.

Combatting racism or sexism or whatever is not (necessarily) idpol. In fact, most of these “idpol” activities are pretty much standard leftist praxes, not liberal bullshit. Leftypol would know this, if you autists actually left the basement and joined proper organizations.

This one is correct.

THIS

idpol is Holla Forumss idpol just ignore the 'tism and move on

why is this a bad thing? it's as if they take democratic values seriously.

What's the point of the DSA? It doesn't even contest elections….

You guys really need to read Bookchin, lads

Does anyone have any experience starting a chapter? The nearest chapter from me is 2 hours

This is a good litmus test in that it senses more people are willing to consider "left" alternatives outside the political mainstream, but the DSA is nothing more than a country club for socdems jerking off to Sweden as some workers' paradise.

Into the trash it goes. All religion should be suppressed when the revolution happens. Communism is incompatible with religion.

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It's supposed to be an entryist faction into the Democrats.

How effect that strategy has been is up for debate.

Bernie talking @ DSA in 1991: youtu.be/7WWtqYbcefM?t=650
>we ran a campaign purely on class issues

youtube.com/watch?v=iBzmKVYFpFY
………………..

why

because the red scare in the USA still holds

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Micheal Harrington thought that the Democratic party was a "labor party in disguise" and helped with some of LBJ's great society programs. People in the socialist party were very worried about a about appearing respectable and wanted to distance themselves from hippes and communists. Supposedly according to several DSA members including the guy in this thread DSA has distanced itself from its anti-communist past, wants to move away from entryism and perhaps towards the Left Cacus position of creating an independent party and to stop wasting time with dems.

I agree here. In fact, it is the only reason I suggest DSA. They are going to be generally the least concerned about sectarian divides and more concerned about coalition building and community engagement.

If a different socialist org like ISO or SAlt is doing better things, it is far better joining them than trying to engage w/ DSA.

DSA in fact has people very involved in SAlt in paid positions for them, if that gives a good gauge of how open they are.

Surprisingly SAlt is only around 900. They manage to get sometimes massive crowds behind their events and are obviously well known, but I assume that they just don't focus that much on membership or just have difficulty gaining due-paying members.

ISO and to a lesser extent SAlt are more interested in building cadre, and they are quite good at it. However, I'm not sure at this time that is where the priority should be. socialistworker.org remains pretty great and SAlt still does good work, though.


They have a problem with being too white and occasionally too male, so the identity groups mostly focus on how DSA can better reach out and recruit w/these people. Also what issues DSA should be working on there.

Worth saying though I and DSA leadership generally agree that:


Bernie did better within Dems as open "socialist" than Green Party/Third Parties have ever done. He used the Dems strategically to his advantage since the conditions were right. We can do the same. See Seth Ackerman's piece of building a worker's party in the latest Jacobin issue.


This is just sectarian nonsense. DSA does not see their future transforming the Dem Party. Days of Harrington are long gone. Not many resources were put into the realignment strategy and even the very SocDem leaning in DSA leadership knows it has failed.

The whole point of joining DSA is that it will not splinter any time soon. The only time this would be possible is when the socialist left becomes large enough and powerful enough that a divide would be meaningful and required to usher in the next steps towards revolution.

DSA's focus is not even on national electoral politics right now, but when they will engage in it, the logic they use is use Greens when it makes sense, run independently when it works in context, or run openly as a democratic socialist in a Dem primary where the other options are bleak. Again, Bernie did more for socialism within the Dem party than third parties have done for quite a while.

Also DSA does not have official caucuses yet, so there wouldn't be much info on the Left Caucus. The only way to officially join is if you find them/their email list through networking. You do have a point that a lot of left-liberals are pouring in since Sanders. But DSA is going to try and focus on internal marxist/radical education internally as they keep getting more members.

I agree with

DSA leadership and members understand the need for a mass socialist party. The problem is, right now it is not feasible. Spending a ton of time and resources on trying to break the impossibly strict laws that maintain the two party system would be a dead end right now. While DSA and all socialist orgs are not putting electoral politics as their number one focus, when engaging in electoral politics, what is the solution other than the Dems (assuming an independent run would not be feasible)?

See: jacobinmag.com/2016/11/bernie-sanders-democratic-labor-party-ackerman/


DSA's priority was never on electoral politics, that is why in their bios everywhere they stress they are an activist organization and not a political party. Post-Harrington, the only time their national agenda had to do with electoral politics was this year, when their official national priority was electing Bernie Sanders.


Try to find 2 or 3 other people and submit an application through the website. They have full-time paid staff for this stuff, so you should get a reply fast and they will guide you through the process. You start as an organizing committee then eventually become a fully recognized chapter and I assume you then receive some funds. If you can't find people, email someone at DSA and they might be able to connect you with others who were trying to start a chapter.

Is there no SAlt/ISO/IWW presence where you are?

Yes, they fight racism, homophobia, sexism, etc along with class issues. You are free to start your own left organization without any of that, if you wish.

Can you enlighten an old commie on how you exactly "fight" racism, homophobia, or sexism? Can you give me concrete examples?

>along with class issues

Is their special blended flavor of socialism a libertarian one or an authoritarian one?

Why do I have to give you my predictions for an imaginary timeline?

I think that at this moment using the democratic party to build any sort of Socialist movement against trump is the least "feasable" solution we have honestly. They will pacify and decelerate the movement against Trump like they do with every social movement they lead.

You know this whole conversation would be so much simpler if you actually had articles explaining your tactic on the democrats on your website, instead of just linking people Jacobin articles.

Oh, it's impossible to "fight" racism. Of course, I was just lying. We don't, there's no way to "fight" it.

How about you get off your ass and go outside to find out?

thanks for the info, I was in YSD in school but it's been a while..
I haven't looked, but I will now. I live in the south so I doubt it, I just thought since DSA has a larger presence there might at least be a chapter near me but no dice