I just played Bioshock for the first time, 10 years after its release...

I honestly feel the same way, I looked system shock though videos, and felt increasingly fucking bored. Honestly I don't think I could play another fps in my life given, I found my love for top down action hack and slashes, honestly I blame fps's for dumbing my mind down, because their all the same fucking thing, fps's haven't changed game play since the days of doom, unless you count handholding cut scenes, and even further dumb down combat, and shity rpg implications.

Aren't you fucking cool

I honestly just completely forgot about Bioshock, and I think that's the word I'd use to describe it: forgettable. It had some original ideas, which was nice, but honestly it failed to reel me in, so in the end it was basically just like any other shooter. I never understood all the praise it gets.

Halo 2
Legendary
NOW!

It felt like someone shoved a bunch of interesting ideas in a generic FPS maker. Ken Levine played what came out it and threw it out saying that it was too fun and interesting. Then he forced the team to make the game from scratch.

Let me guess, weeaboo?

Bioshock is a streamlined System Shock 2. The extraneous shit they shoved into the game after SS1, like leveling skills, locking you off of the good weapons until you burned modules on the stats, weapon durability, and researching items that to can't use until you run back to a chem storage to shove a vat of element in your face just served to slow the game and give it this implied flavoring of depth.

Now, i liked SS2 and i do recommend it, but it is, itself, a cluttered version of SS1 with a re-used antagonist and a fair amount of hand-wavey bullshit as to why the meat-based quasi-villian exists and also why it isn't the actual antagonist of the game.

I just got around to playing it as well. Found it really uninteresting. A non-story with non-characters and mechanics that are an interesting theory but don't have enough of a gameplay impact to actually change the gameplay that's just watered-down console shooting.

Having literally libertarianball as the villain is hilarious though. I cracked up when one of the audiologs was basically "hey this new gene splicing thing is wreaking havoc on the fabric of society should we maybe regulate it so people stop turning into kill-crazy superhuman monsters" and his reply was "THE FREE MARKET WILL FIX IT!"

also is this unhackable or what

yeah that does happen from time to time

Why would you force yourself to play through that, i got so board of it so quickly, force yourself to play through a better game at least.

Happened to me all the time. I distinctly remember getting an unwinnable mini game 4 times in a row when trying to open a safe. Pissed me off something fierce.

The non-story really got me. I can't believe such a crappy story is held up as some sort of classic of gaming.

Actually I hate anime, what's honestly changed with fps's like actual legit changes, tell me, has anything with guns actually changed besides how they fire. You can say all these things about fps's. Tell me do you ever use guns creatively. Even my own faviorte fps's like fear. You never do anything creative with the gun, besides how it fires.

And no bullet time doesn't fucking count, that's a super power, not something you do with the gun.

Like here's something. Take bioshock, all you do with the guns is change how they fire and do damage, But you know your plazmids, how about, instead of a boring extra abilty, you can now, mod your weapons with any plasmids. A shotgun that shoots fucking bees sounds lot funer and cooler than just plainly shooting bees. Or hell, why not be able to control the ricochet, like competently full control, fuck why not go full batshit and make your guns uber strong, how about pistol that shoots a floating black hole grenades, Or a rife that shoots between dimensions, allowing you to shoot any enemy you have seen from anywhere.

Just fucking saying, the combat in all these fucking games, is stilted, and the same thing as games before it.

Rocket/grenade jumping which you can do in TF2, Halo, and Metroid.

Oh wow, how innovative, Next your going to tell I can crouch while jumping. By the way, you did rocket jumping in doom as well just you know, so were clear.

Also, to add to my previous comment, how is any of that creative? You're just doing the same thing you claim to hate.

When Bioshock first released people were blown away by it because they hadn't seen anything like it before.

You could say "but muh System Shock 2" Bioshock had this unique aesthetic (for the time) with this very rustic retro futurism. And while this was done in Fallout 1/2 before, this hadn't really been seen in a full on 3D big budget game at the time.

To me this is like going back and playing Half-Life and going "wtf is this"

I thought Bioshock was pretty decent. Not the greatest thing, but not the worst either.

Agreed.

I think this is the most retarded post I've seen in a while.

Well given the vast aerie of plasmids, then take a step further with mixing plasmids, also I never seen a game where you control the way your bullet ricochet, basically giving you ability to fire and hit any target you wanted.

Not saying my ideas are, creative, my points, shoots can't evolve behold that point. A gun will always be used in the same way everytime.

You know what you can do with a sword? A lot actually, swords has a lot of uses outside being a weapon. Fps don't do anything but repeat themselfs.

Their's this cool place called.
You fit right in.

Wanted: Weapons of Fate back in 2009.

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I loved the water effects.

OP didn't say it was derivative, he said it was boring. Because it was. But you were young or casual enough to fall for it when it was new, so you defend it now.

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I really wasn't I just liked the game because it was less awkward and slow than System Shock 2. Holla Forums likes to extol the virtues of that game but forgets that it's slow and really awkward to play. Most of the changes Bioshock made like removing the inventory and streamlining everything made complete sense to me back in 2007 and clearly made sense to a ton of other developers given how much Bioshock was copied after it released.

There's a great deal of design to Bioshock I really liked at the time and still like upon retrospect having played through it a few times. Like how Big Daddies don't attack the player unless you attack them first and encourage preparing for combat by using lesser used weapons like the Grenade Launcher or the Crossbow. Or how you had a camera like in Dead Rising except it was directly tied to player upgrades. So you could learn how to turn invisible by photographing Houdini splicers. That sort of thing. This sort of thing is obvious to devs now but I still remember at the time not seeing this sort of thing in FPS games.

I think its just everybody has different tastes to genres of video games. I like platformers, open world shooters and city building games. Can't stand long rpgs or combat focused rts games.

Fair enough, I just grew out of it, I used to like open world shooters, and shooters in general but it just got so fucking same after so long. But too each his own you known.

It was just okay. Average shootan game.
Shouldn't have rode the coattail of System Shock but whatever.

From the beginning up to the first big daddy fight was great.. everything after was just looking for better guns or powers, and it was very linear anyway.

Did you save a thumbnail of a thumbnail? That's not even a picture for ants, that's for fleas.

For one, gameplay is not equal to just how many button inputs go into executing an attack. Things like level design, how the gun handles, being able to aim vertically, enemy design, character movespeed, etc., are all important factors that change how the game plays. How this isn't obvious to you is beyond me. Your definition of gameplay seems to be extreme reductionism, "Yeah, well, you just point and shoot at things", which is something I would expect to see on facebook, not here (not really, anymore). It ignores the many facets that make up a game. Going slowly in a straight line while shooting nothing but hitscan enemies and being railroaded by cutscenes like in CoD is far different from Doom's branching levels and combination of swiftly dodging projectiles and prioritizing hitscan enemies. If you can't see the difference then you might be short a couple of marbles.

Your flippant response to someone giving you an example makes me think I'm wasting my time. You don't explain why, you just handwave it away.

The most ironic part about this is that if I'm reading it right, you're favorite genre is fucking Diablo clones. Which is a genre that has stagnated hard and is not deep in the slightest. Stop me if your build for the hardest difficulty involved finding out what stats you'll need for BiS gear and then dumping everything else into health. I used to enjoy them until I realized I was only spending so much time on the game because it was gating me behind low drop chances (it gets the worst when you're about to move up a difficulty). I mean, I still play them now and again, but they're not really all that innovative or hard to master. Of course, you may be talking about something else, which would render this whole paragraph useless.

OP here. Its not derivative. It is clearly influential. It really highlighted how little games have improved in the past 10 years, something I said in the OP. The difference between Bioshock and something like Half Life is that you can go back and play Half Life and it is still fun. A hell of a lot more fun than Bioshock is in any case despite being even a decade older. I was just surprised that Bioshock is widely lauded as a classic and it was so mediocre. I didn't expect anything from the gameplay but the story was complete arse. I think I probably even enjoyed Fallout 3 more, and that is certainly not a good game.

This. The game just got worse and worse the further it went on. The fact that all the build up of story with Ryan had no payoff was just awful. The initial success of atmosphere wore off and all that was left was generic shooter.

hold the fuck up, bioshock may not be a good game, but it is leagues ahead of FO3

Something else Bioshock did at the time that wasn't common was it tried to marry gameplay and story together.

In games prior to Bioshock the act of gameplay was usually mutually exclusive compared to the act of story. They were just two separate things and people just accepted that. Bioshock was one of the first big budget video games that at the time actually made me pay attention to story in terms of gameplay and not see the two as separate concepts. Like how it's revealed the reason the game was so linear and why you were always guided from point A to B is you were biologically incapable of freedom of choice. And how this ties into how Andrew Ryan created Rapture as a place where you could live without being told what to do, and his own son kills him because someone else told him to.

I mean by comparison Fallout 3's storyline is just "Enclave bad, Brotherhood good. Your dad is such a swell guy, now try and find him. Oops he died, please save the wasteland, or don't."

The only other game I remember playing before Bioshock that actually attempted to make gameplay part of the story was Chrono Trigger. I'm sure there's plenty of other examples but Bioshock was really the game that popularized this concept to the point where you started seeing it in later games like Dishonored.

No, your pretty much right on the money. honestly the way you feel about diablo clones is how I feel about shooters in any form. It's so fucking old to me, and doesn't feel satisfying.

I pretty much beat all the dooms games, (with mods) And, it really wasn't because I wanted to. I had very fun mods too, but it just got so old so fucking quick. Tnt is one of the worst things I ever played in my life, and I had a bunch of mods, and like, after that, I just got done with anything fps. I mean yeah am kinda using that as my jump off point.

But the tnt maps, just made me so fucking done. I just finished it just because I wanted to just say am done, the only game I can stand to pick up now is fallout new vegas, and even then I mostly just do it to have the fun and crazy shit happen. Plus you know a story with characters who aren't 2d are nice.

And ever since I pick up path of exile, I pretty much get what I want, I rather have the fun of just tearing though waves of guys with axe while summon hellhounds and shooting zsus lighting though my hands.

Then ever trying to play a shooter again, I mean. I mean at least I feel like am doing something in a hack and slash that feels satisfying.

As opposed the lackluster feeling of just shooting people in the head, fuck even headshots are boring to me. I feel so much better if it was my own two hand grabing a dudes fucking head and crushing it between them.

Ah, so you're burned out on the FPS genre, and Western games in general. Tends to happen, especially with (((Current Year))) shit. If you want some advice, look into Japanese games and see about giving them a try (Even ones you think you're going to hate, and especially a title that is not as well known).

Actually, it seems like the simplest solution for all burnoutfags is to play an obscure Japanese title for a 5th gen console and prior.

You're just burnt out, dude, sometimes you gotta switch to something else to keep it fresh. I switch off every now and again between multiple genres as well. There's no harm in it.

TnT would make just about anyone done, it's fucking awful, overly gigantic rooms that are often times literally just basic shapes, then filled to the brim with hitscan enemies that are sometimes out of range of your weapons. Even the upside of TnT isn't that great, there might be 4 or 5 maps that are good, the rest ranges from 'meh' to 'bottom of the barrel'.

It all makes sense when you know the history of TnT, though. It was originally intended to be a free, community made map pack, but id bought the maps from Team TnT so they could sell it as Final Doom. Basically, it's a mishmash of maps from a bunch of inexperienced community members, and it shows. Although, there are still people to this day, some of them on this board, that try and pretend it's some sort of masterpiece.

You also seem to have played it with mods, which could make it 10x harder depending on the mod. Vanilla TnT alone is enough to make you hate life, adding something in that it's not built around (saying TnT is built around anything is a stretch) could make it that much more rage-inducing.

But enough ragging on TnT, as much as I love to do it. Play some other genres for a while like you're doing. See some of the other shit gaming has to offer. Sometimes instead of blowing enemies' heads off with a gun you gotta smash them with your fists or a hammer.

I feel like it made a decent amount of sense. Ryan had his whole life's work swept out from under him and decided to commit suicide by PC. It wasn't how Ryan died that was disappointing to me, It was the absolute failure of the game to capitalize or add anything after that event which was bad.
Add onto that what said about the game trying to merge the narrative and gameplay together and it takes a huge hit. While the character is supposedly 'free' and can do whatever, the player still has to follow a linear, directive based design. That was pretty much the only noteworthy thing it had going for it, so the decision to scrap that part of it 2/3rds of the way through the game was pretty dumb.

What did you expect?

That's a really surface level look at it.

Ryan was like hyper individualistic. He HATED being told what to do by anyone else. He was a commentary on Ayn Rand's philosophy, which was one of the recurring themes of the game. There's even a story he says to the player before he kills "Atlas's" family where he talks about how he once owned a forest that he planted himself on his own land. And the government came and told him he had to make it a park for the public. And in response he burned the forest to the ground.

"On the surface, I once bought a forest. The parasites claimed that the land belonged to God, and demanded that I establish a public park there. Why? So the rabble could stand slack-jawed under the canopy and pretend that it was paradise *earned*. When Congress moved to nationalize my forest, I burnt it to the ground. God did not plant the seeds of this Arcadia - I did."

It's why when he orders the player to murder him. The player is more or less at his mercy, he has his code phrase. He can tell the player to do whatever he wants. And he proves that he was the one in control the whole time. He wanted to go out the way he lived, his own choice. It's why he says "a man chooses, a slave obeys". He's saying you're a slave to his own will.

That's one flaw with the game unfortunately. While I do like the last 1/3rd of the game because it's more challenging (although at that point you have plasmids like enrage/alert/decoy which break big daddies really fast) it does treat it's theme as just part of the plot towards the end. They sort of ran out of ideas by the end and you can especially see it with how the villain turns into a big final boss dude you just shoot a bunch and win

I can see how you would think it's boring now but when it came out 10 years ago the production values were top notch, and even though the combat is not that great exploring the interesting world was enough of a draw

Bullshit, it was equally garbo when it came out.

did you even play some of the other games from that era? Back then it was extremely rare that you'd find an FPS that blended rpg mechanics. While System Shock 2 did it years prior that was considered a clunky niche game that barely sold at all (Night Dive even announced that the GOG release of the game sold better than the retail release did). The lone exceptions was stuff like Deus Ex.

The majority of PC games from then still looked like they belonged on a PS2 since it was way more expensive to upgrade a toaster at that time

Since 10 years ago I was at the end of high school, imagine so.
Bioshock's "rpg mechanics" are so laughable that putting it separately from other fps games is dumb.

I wish every 7th Gen shitter that uses this board would die of colon cancer.

Bioshock's rpg mechanics were invisible. The game had them but it removed things like stats because it slowed the game down.

I mentioned earlier in the thread things like how you could use the in-game camera to acquire different abilities from enemies, which you could then slot into yourself. You can for instance optimize yourself in the game to maximize wrench damage and play the entire game wrench only. (This was intentionally designed this way because it was a popular way to play System Shock 2 back in the day). There's a lot of combinations available to the player it's just not forced upon you.

I didn't say "never existed". I said "rare". The average FPS game in 2007 was shit like Call of Duty Modern Warfare, Rainbow Six Vegas etc.

After 2007 you started seeing more and more rpg mechanics appearing in FPS games. Like Far Cry 3 with it's xp and perk based progression. This didn't use to be normal. An FPS game prior to this almost universally constituted just shooting at things, and if it did have rpg mechanics it was usually tacked on. Like I remember No One Lives Forever 2 had stats and I remember hating it because it slowed the game down and I preferred the original.

Looking it up, the only ones out there were the two Deus Ex games (Three if you count Project: Snowblind), Vampire - The Masquerade: Bloodlines (This is just one of the playstyles), Boiling Point: Road to Hell, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., System Shock 2. Heretic, Hexen, and Strife. The funny thing is, in the thread I'm getting all of these titles from, they even mention Borderlands , but no Bioshock:
archive.fo/KCrdw
please use archive.is/forums/pc-mac-linux-society-1000004/any-firstperson-rpgs-on-pc-25935646/

Also, I remember they being Cyber-Cop (Pretty the Deus Ex before Deus Ex).

Rare for 7th Gen console normalfags
I was playing Dark Messiah and S.T.A.L.K.E.R before this turdbucket was even out.
All these RPG elements in FPS games are due to CoD4/MW2 multiplayer progression system and nothing else, just as barren and vapid as well and take away from what actually matters.

I liked the ad with "Beyond the Sea".

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STALKER is even debatably an rpg because the only real rpg mechanics it has outside of inventory/loot/conversation trees is artifacts. Which is funny because equipping artifacts was a feature nerfed to the point of irrelevance in the sequels (in the original game you can have a specific kit of artifacts where you can enter an anomaly and instead of damaging you, your armor gets healed). And most total conversion mods for SoC make artifacts just arbitrary loot you can find and sell. It's a rare example of a series where people actually prefer to mod out some of the rpg mechanics.

If you're going to bring up "first person rpgs" those predate fps games by a lot. (even before you had actual freeform movement those existed. Like Might and Magic).

My first bioshock game was the second one, and I believe was the first fps I played. I honestly think that it had the best writing of its time, it had an emotionally invested story and unlike trying to tug your heart strings with generic little sisters, you had what felt like a precious daughter that was looking towards your actions which made the ending that much more impactful. I found out later the reason in which people found it vastly different from the first is because it was made by a different company that respected the original lore and decided to build off it.

Bioshock Infinite then took that emotional drive that was in the second game, and brought it into the spotlight with Elizabeth. Infinite was the best of the three despite being a disappointment to some players mechanically. I was hesistant at first to play it because i thought i'd be fighting for niggers and a social justice warrior kid, but instead I got a pretty unbiased storyline that outlined darkness on both sides and at the end made damn near everyone including elizabeth the bad guy.

The bioshock series excluding the first are great examples of how the standard for video games should be set. The story of both games was top tier on a vidya level with Infinite being the better of the two. I'd recommend giving both a shot.

With the exception of Burial At Sea because that was some next level trash that tore holes in a pretty solid plot… hurt my feelings too.

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Prove me wrong faggot.

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Consider me BTFO. In my own opinion its still the game I'd play over BS2

I enjoyed it to user, but it honestly wasn't that good.

(Look at those quads)

I've seen some shit

Did you get this from cuckchan?

Have an mp4.

Nobody can be this stupid. Probably had the most awkward gunplay in FPS history.

It manages to be a shitty shooter despite dropping every single mechanic of an immersion sim. Everything about the gameplay screams bad design.

Congratulations, you fell for the marketing waifubait.

Great storytelling right there, making everyone an asshole is the hallmark of mature storytelling for mature gamers such as yourself.

Since Infinite was your first FPS I recommend you play some more games before you embarrass yourself further.

I never really played it either OP, I saw it the other day on my stack though. Thought about playing it. Earlier this month I played God of War(3?) and Dark Souls and both were pretty enjoyable.

I never got through Bioshock originally for the same reasons as you. I went in hoping it was going to be something like a metroid game but want I got was bland and boring.

Yes? Why do you think people hate black and white karma systems? Why do you think people hate Fallout 3 and prefer Fallout: New Vegas? Because no group is ever pure good or evil, because that's unrealistic. The best villains are oftentimes the ones with motivations that can be on equal footing with, or even better than, the protagonist's.

But no, please, continue to make yourself sound smug and sophisticated by thinking you know what makes a good story.

you're too retarded to even function as a human being.

Please take your hands off the keyboard, your mighty graciousness, before you make a bigger fool out of yourself.

thanks for confirming your retardation
go get yourself euthanized before you spread your cancer to civilization.

What the hell are you even talking about? Every character, even the waifu, is an asshole in BioShock. There is no one to sympathize with or to cheer for. And don't sully New Vegas by using it to justify your idiocy.

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Thanks anons, but I don't know any Japanese shooters. I don't like flight sims of death, as far burn out, I've been that way with shooters for a long so any suggestions would be interesting to see.

Burial at sea is way better than infinite you mong.

Well, there's Vanquish, Lost Planet (1", 2 and E.X. Troopers; 3, however, is developed by a Western company), Outtrigger, Freedom Wars (Which is actually a mix between a shooter and hack-and-slash that's also a Monster Hunter-"clone"), numerous light-gun games like The House of the Dead series (Excluding Overkill) and Sin and Punishment, Killer7'', those are all of the ones I can think of.

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I'm pretty sure that's what you're supposed to do, user. Are you one of those "there can only be one of this thread ever" /r9k/ purists?

You like it because there is nothing else to compare it against, since as you said
It seems good because this is the first time you are seeing these devices used, and the first time you are seeing sci-fi used as a vial to talk about real world philosophy. Don't worry everyone goes through this. People love FF7 for the same reason. Eventually you will play enough games and see that Bioshock is nothing special. It had average game play. As well as a basic utopia/dystopia story, with a twist. The visuals were its strongest selling point. Honestly having Bioshock as your nostalgia series because of the epiphany you had while play it, isn't that bad. There are plenty of worst series to have rose colored glasses for. If you liked the game then go play the better games that inspired it and grow your gaming palate.

Here is a good talk about writing sci-fi by Issac Asimov
youtu.be/VSxMZBp-2Zs?t=10m16s

OP ARE YOU SPYING ON ME I LITERALLY AM PLAYING THE SAME SHIT AND THINK THE SAME. YOU STOLE MY NOTEPAD.

It's funny how the exact same thing you wrote I also thought about the game. I reached the tea garden and I don't think I can continue. The game is boring, the atmosphere doesn't pull me in, the rust/bronze look of the game, the way the weapons fire, the way enemies react to your shots, the massive health pool they have on higher difficulty, the boring story, nothing in this game is interesting.

It's just another game like Bioshock: Infinite where it is massively overhyped by the mass retards that don't know about story nor gameplay. This is one of those games where the people that recommend "good old games" are wrong. Never trust the retards that recommend games after '07.

Its shit

This is exactly where I put down the game the first time. I was already bored and there still felt like there was a whole lot of game left ahead of me. I recommend putting the game difficulty down to easy and blasting through the rest of the game. There are 3 annoying fetch quests in a row and then you are on your way to the end of the game. The levels become more linear as you go on too. Don't bother exploring, there's nothing worthwhile. I suggest alcohol, it got me through the rest of the game.

I wish people like you, user, were making games these days.

I recommend the Witcher series for its realistic depiction of conflicts between different groups that come with their own good and bad. Vid related.

No. This meme needs to die.
Grey Morality doesn't make good writing. Bethesda does that meme by having the Enclave and Institute make their case in the last minute. They made the civil war in Skyrim un-give-a-fuck-able. FO:NV worked because they didn't felt the need to balance out the difference factions. The moral ambiguity isn't between NCR and Legion but everyone else besides the Legion. The NCR is originally treated as the only alternative to the Legion being the only faction big enough to oppose them. Mr. House offers another option with tyrannical den of sin. You also choose anarchy which isn't expounded as well. Or the continuous back stabbings, infightings, and profiteering justifies the Legion because people couldn't work together even in brink of destruction.

You didn't have the plasmids equipped

So the execution might be fucky sometimes, but that doesn't mean the idea in itself is bad. Look at how SMAC did it with nothing more than snippets of fictional literature - Miriam Godwinson turned from "HOLY WAR NOW NERVE STAPLE THE INFIDELS!" to "We must dissent!" while Deirdre Skye turned from peace and love to mindraping the Spartans to death.

If SMAC can do it, why can't other games?

not worth your time, not worth mine

I'm saying that you shouldn't work on the assumption that both sides should be equally valid. That is also not that common in real life. I'm going to tell so that Obsidian didn't think the Legion was equally valid. If they worked on that assumption, they would probably not have the sexism or tone down the slavery.

Quake.

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actually hes more intelligent than you could ever comprehend.

Played it a very long time ago. I remember there was a lot of hype and admiration over the socio-political commentary in the game. This was around the time of "video games for mature/intelligent gamers" being the climate published by the gaming journalists, which still had their credibility then. But looking past it, it's kind of an average FPS.

The highlights of the story were memorable but the gameplay wasn't. I don't ever replay Bioshock, and I never felt a sort of difference in needing to adapt to or learn to play the game when I started. The previous playing experience of other FPS largely carries over without too much distinction (be decent at shooting, buy upgrades, follow waypoint, use special skills associated with special button, have thrown in puzzles and maybe a stealth section).

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You can use a rocket to propel yourself to the secret exit to E3M9 but apparently that was unintended. However it was apparently intended in Rise of the Triad to access an important part of the final boss level, and possibly for the episode 4 secret exit, but both of those also have mercury mode alternatives.