Are MMO's the only genre without a single good game?

my taste is quite biased, but given how i havent played any other actual MMOs even I'll say that WoW probably sucked even in vanilla and that it was only good because of the interactions you had with other players, which you could also get in other MMOs
vanilla WoW gets stale a month or two after 60 3 months if you're not into the PvP grind or PvP in general
after you finally hit lvl 60, max your professions, get your epic mount, and get all the gear you want from all the non-raids except that shoulder enchant from argent dawn exalted, all there is left to do that isn't PvP is get that AD exalted shoulder enchant and farm consumables between raids and become a raidlogger

ignore the 3 months part, forgot to delete it

With the loss of City of Heroes? Yes.

>tfw FFXIV was good until devs broke and turned it into a casual snoozefest that would rather sell hats cosmetic armor for shekels
Give me the git gud mechanics of Coils of Bahamaut or Alexander savage. Popularity leads to death.

Just because it's dead doesn't mean you can't count it. Another dead fun one to throw on the tire fire is Tabula Rasa.

How about you go fuck yourself?

It still hurts, damn it.

...

Can you explain to a pleb like me what makes this good?

I remember reading about Tabula Rasa when it was new and wanting to try it out, but it died really quickly. What happened?

Runescape was solid.

Also this.

and now its garbage… both RS3 and RS3-lite """"oldscape""""

thats just a meme game man.

He will reply with some "it gives tension to combat, it makes the world feel more alive, it makes mid-gear usefull" and all of that is true, but still a bunch of baloney.

The only thing it did for the game was to artificially increase the time it'd take to grind all the good shit since you had to add up the time to get back your stuff whenever you died.
Admittely, it made PvP a bit more interesting but not necessarily more rewarding since anyone you could kill did not had gear that interested you anyway.

It's mostly a way to treat the symptom and not the disease. By ensuring you can lose shit when you die, players can actually be set back and their progress can be reverted, ensuring they never hit the actual endgame, where there's nothing else to do but bully less powerfull players.

It's rightfully considered better (even though it just adds to the grind even more) because current MMO's see player's power rise constantly and never going down, even in defeats. The game simply can't take stuff away from you (unless it's very temporary only) and because of this, grinding becomes an outside game, preparing you for the actual game that is endgame since things like PvP don't make sense before that happens and most raiding only makes sense when you're level capped as well.

Ideally, equipment would be something easy to lose and easy to gain while the game would give you something more long term and important that would be harder to get but also harder to lose.
For instance, if you could build\hire a blacksmith in a city, you'd have swords for days that you could lose them whenever you died. However the blacksmith itself could also be taken in a siege but that's something harder to happen.

In practice however, the "economy" of MMO's exists entirely on the auction house for a few autistic niggers to rig the prices and nobody actually wants to be a part of the world, they just want a simple dungeon crawling game with friends and a third person brawler with customizable waifus.
And that's exactly what MMOs are currently.

PSO was the only good MMO

Yes.

Scirocco best henchman

nothing to do at max level except bully lower level players
that sounds boring at max lvl and awful for non-max lvl players
you might as well quit after you hit max level and have played around with the skills you only get at high levels

But I dumped all this time user, I can't not keep playing!
Now watch as I show off my pro skills by camping low level players for 3 hours, because no max level player would put themselves at risk when it's such a setback

Fixed

What is the most hardcore MMO?

inb4 real life

Still liked it, even though the only thing it really had going for it was being an SMT MMO

real

… life

Nice MEME!!!

Every MMO I've played I have hated but even though I never got to play City of Heroes I always felt that I would have enjoyed it. Is Champions Online anything similar?

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I need to stop typing shit while hungry.

mfw he learned Hassou Tobi and steamrolled half the game

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Sometimes I forget how much of a contrarian many of you are, but this thread helped remind me. It's amazing how shit Holla Forumss opinion can be sometimes.

That unofficial 2d pokemon mmo

MMMOs are interactive chat apps. They're good if you actually give a shit about people and muh community. You know "I met my wife in World of Warcraft". I hate them but to each his own I guess.

Holla Forums is one person®

That's the point of discussion.

PSO2 is better.

nah m8, thats shitposting

Op is faggot underage as always.
UO was good, DAoC was good, Guild Wars 1 was good.

Make way, MMO made by and for the masterrace with the highest average IQ in the world coming through

its just PerfectWorld combined with Lineage 2.

thats like having an mediocre, edible sandwich (L2) and taking a big shit (perfect world) inside it

Sorry the game's too hard for you two digit IQ kids.
I remember back when Aion came out I checked out Holla Forums and you kids were crying that assassins were shit at PVE and PVP (pro tip they were top tier at both) so your opinion is worth about two steps below shit.

WoW sucks now because they homogenized the entire game for a casual fan-base, not because of grinding. For an MMO the level of polish it had in 2004 was amazing.

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I-is it still alive?
I do get urges to play it from time to time, but dear god target combat doesn't sit well with me.

idk I quit back when one of the reps said we should be grateful the patches are free

It has sucked since WotLK

It has always sucked.

Stop destroying my memories faggot

you think your favorite MMO is dead? you should see the things they've done to this

Ho ho.

MMO's like ASSFAGGOT's were shit to begin with

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And filtered, stay buttmad and retarded.

Haven and Hearth seems OK, never played it tho.

Made it single player friendly so people can at least enjoy the story, environments and music/gameplay without having it be utterly impossible to play? In a way, it's like Guild Wars. It's somber and sad to see it in its current state, but if you ever want to come back and remember the good times you can, even if it hurts.

who the fuck is going to pay a subscription to listen to the music and watch those stanky 2001 environments?

>>>Holla Forums

newyorker.com/books/page-turner/how-the-talmud-became-a-best-seller-in-south-korea
npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/10/29/499864915/swirling-scandal-involving-shamanistic-cult-threatens-s-korean-president
bbc.com/news/world-asia-37809594
abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/south-koreas-growing-obsession-cosmetic-surgery/story?id=24123409

SE Asians are trash.

hell the 5000 or so people that still do only do so because they suffer the runescape syndrome

I'll take City of Heroes for 500, Alex.

store.steampowered.com/app/261430/AION_FreetoPlay/

its shit and has always been shit for autistic ruskies to live out their american genocide dreams

The problem with MMOs is and alway will be -utterly retarded developers- because it seems the biggest failures and egomaniacs gravitate towards MMO teams and MMO design. Yes- even the classics. Even the ones that ALMOST got it right ended up fucking it up for themselves.

Everquest contributed to ruining everything by listening to the smallest iota of their playerbase and the developers became slop conveyer belts glopping halfassed high end content down the poopsockiest of neckbeards throats (Noted poopsockers being key members of the WoW design team, like tigole and furor- We'll come to that later)

Even in the ultima online era you have a faggot calling himself lord british and self inserting and getting ass blasted when people figure out how to kill his invincible god figure.

In Anarchy Online you had completely puzzling fucking advancement, skills that were literally traps and point wastes (Swimming swimming swimming) even if the game was rather novel and pioneered the "standard" MMO hud.

Asheron's call dying on the second game due to retarded microsoft partnership instead of taking their sweet sweet AC1 profits and staying solo and telling them to cram their deadline up their ass- Now turbine just manages several failing games.

In star wars galaxies you havd SOE telling an entire playerbase that unanimously says "Shit sucks" to the CE update that no- They are in fact wrong and shift+delete their original pre CE update patch files so they can never recover from their fuckup. Not to mention fucking with paying customers by warping them into space and generally having club peguin tier puberty squeakers being moderators and admins.

City of heroes/city of villains is a case of heinous fucking decision making all around. City of heroes started strong and people were having fun- Then the head guy "Statesman" (Again, lots of self insert fucktards in the MMO genre) pisses his tights and screams "M-MUH VISION" and whips his dev team into crippling the power spread of everyone and setting up the retarded rule that "One hero = 3 minions, or two LT units, or one mini boss." in power scale- Killing the entire fucking feel of having super powers.

Only patches and patches later after he was ousted from his own "creation" did they manage to dial everything back into sanity and get development back on track- And were quite profitable, actually in the top 5-ish of NCsoft games in general and had design docs and a roadmap for more content and powers- Only for NCsoft to shitcan City of heroes and City of villains both for no tangible reason at all and force the game to close. NCsoft's future ventures and ponies they backed equally flopping hard (The short lived AION and the colossal failure Wildstar)

But- Western devs alone are not the only ones who have the MMO retardation.

Gravity and ragnarok online- Ragnarok online for the longest time coasted on being the only kid on the block with it's flavor of gameplay with no quests and an IV drip of content- And somehow having more players than any "modern" MMO can ever brag about.

Until people realized how bad they were getting fucked.

At any given time for over 7+ years after iRO's release, they were in a 2 year or worse lag behind korea's version in patches, fixes and content. Not to mention the terrible fucking servers and constant disconnects. And the game was utterly infested to bursting at the seams with bots.

It reached beyond parody levels after a bunch of internal files and updates were leaked from gravity and the surge of RO private servers came out in full force- And even the most loose brained "XD" posting gaia online fangirl had a better version of the game to offer with better server s available for absolutely-fucking-free versus an actually paid team managing iRO.

The divide became worse and worse until iRO simply died- Because people were far more content giving donations to people who actually gave them content and updates even if they were lifted straight from kRO. In lieu of paying a subscription for a crippled product.

Now for ragnarok online's 2D brother- Maple story!

More content lag issues versus it's other regional kin, and the added bonus of a leveling curve so punishingly retarded- That you could be in the best leveling spot for your character and actively hacking (Oh did I mention the unchecked hacking and botting?) and your level rate would be a level every 12 unbroken hours or more. And getting exponentially worse as you went. Short story- Moving on.

Ragnarok online 2! A crippled charmless WoW clone with even worse localization than iRO - Filled to the brim from the start with cancerous cash shop issues. The game that flopped and was apologized for- And I think released and flopped again… Speaking of re-releasing and flopping…

Now we're on to final fantasy 11/XI and onward.

Borrowing some of the worst traits from post content mill everquest, and despite having an interesting take on the formula- Even from people who loved the game.. It was slow, dull and had problems with what it wanted to do. And had utterly bogus horse shit requiring you to make macros for most any action you'd ever want to do- Up to and including CHANGING YOUR ENTIRE ARMOR SET for using specific abilities or spells for the bonuses.

And high end boss content tried to couch utterly retarded decisions and incompetence in the guise of "DIFFICULT EPIC FIGHTS LOL" in true japanese inability-to-admit-when-you're-wrong fashion. Though having a good-ish market presence and carrying on for a good while- It then fucked up and betrayed it's dedicated core by taking what was a team balanced game even for basic leveling- And making it a straight line to the end themepark.

As far as FFXIV goes- The game literally released once as a giant abysmal flop, and came back to enjoy a modicum of success as "Slightly slower paced prettier WoW"

Not much of a story to tell there as my experience with the first incarnation of it is limited.

Now we're on to tree of savior to continue the ragnarok saga from before.

Years and years of hype, lots of smoke blown up peoples ass about being a spiritual successor to ragnarok online. The promise of a fuckload of classes.. No longer "Gravity" but a subset of the team- Surely they learned from their mistakes this time?

Hahaha these are MMO developers. Of course not.

The game releases after several on and off and on and off buggy betas, It has server issues out the ass, barely an iota of the classes even shown in the earliest of alpha trailers- And so many restrictions it might as well have been a walled in demo unless you gave them money.. And after you give them money you get to enjoy harsher restrictions than any other f2p game on the market imposes on you for playing for FREE. With 3 dungeon runs allowed a day (Of any dungeon- No it's not per dungeon. Any- Also lol koreans naturally got 5 dungeon runs a day)

And for months after release they couldn't even figure out how to take your money properly. So the only people who had "Premium" benefits were suckers who got founders packs before they were taken off of steam- And when they did figure it out their sub prices were fucking god awful and you had to dump whale tiers of money in to get anything cosmetic or interesting from their scalper ass cash shop.

And being so incompetent that things like being in a party and entering a quest that begins a cutscene freezes you in place lingered for over 4 months with no fix or solution.

Oh and of course they fell victim to the same folley that iRO did. Tree of savior despite "promising" parity between versions and even going so far as to repatch their entire game's database- Is well behind it's korean counterpart in bug fixes, balances and content patches. And even the korean version as the defacto version of the game still doesn't have almost a dozen classes shown in the pre-alpha trailers and early design talks.

Back to the west for a moment-

EVE online I never had a taste for so let me try to be as objective as possible. It was a novel concept and had a big load of success for what it was- And did it's god damndest to squander every last bit of that success.

The devs just kept adding more pointless garbage no one cared about in the most lazy implementations possible (Bridges of ships, Character models in a game where you never see your character, limp wristedly tried to tie the game into a failed at birth shooter of their own design. The participation of which gave bonuses that amounted to nothing for either game's playerbase. )

Everquest next was a cash grab flop before it even became a game.

Guild wars 2 took a huge greasy shit all over the tone and lore and target audience of guild wars 1.

And now all MMOs no matter the region they are born from are becoming even more cancerous and flawed to stay alive by becoming gacha filled 20 dollar costume sporting "Give 10 dollars every other week until you've paid 1000 dollars for a sub 20 dollar experience" lump of hunk of shit.

The eternal unbreakable flaw of the MMO is their developers learn absolutely nothing from their mistakes OR their successes.

I don't even know where to start. I'm afraid telling you to kill yourself would only poison whatever ground strays are buried. Please go to africa and then off yourself. Please. Mugabe wants you back. Just go.

How's runescape nowadays?

I honestly think that Warframe has very good base idea:
The game is single player for as long as you want it to be, but there is also content that can only be done in group so you either team up with friends or risk your fun and time and go with randoms. There is also a very nice potential balance between skill-based action and stat management.
Problem with the game itself that not only it has barely any content after all these years and next to none of that skill/stats balance, but also devs are huge fucking ass hats and jews.

good posts but what's with the formatting?

Readability amidst the sea of words and being really fucking mad and tired.

its aids.

RS3 is meme ridden "wow graphics" cancer.
oldschool is RS3-lite. its not quite RS3 yet, but its trying its damn hardest to get there, graphical updates, cosmetics, and forced "diversity" "quests" that they forced on people EVEN WHEN THEY PROMISED that no content would be added to Oldschool without a poll where the majority wanted the content changes.

MapleStory v.62 private servers.

MapleLegends and MapleRoyals are good.

Holla Forums could run a PvP only Asheron's Call emulator…

Do it.

Is ultima online any good?

Except you're wrong

This is fairly accurate. But FFXIV is still the best MMORPG out currently. Though to be honest, I'm pretty tired of it at this point. And tired of MMORPGs in general.

It's more like
The question answers itself pretty quickly. Are MMO's the most subjective genre there is?

warframe is fun if you choose not to grind. progression is slow, but spending more time modding and upgrading instead of getting the next shiny trinket is actually pretty fulfilling, but you'll never touch most of the game and you have to be ok with that
this game sets traps for autism around every corner.

DOTA past tense

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Game would go a lot better if the trading system was less ass. Let us trade normal stuff between players and maybe a system that'll actually let you earn the smallest amounts of platinum instead of none at all. Even after farming random prime shit, no one ever buys anything when I try to trade. Everyone just stands around hoping for someone to buy.

No. They are forced to follow some kind of money grabbing archetype, to justify continuing to pay for servers and producing new content. They ultimately groups them all into certain niches in the way they implement the money grabs. Content release and consumption has to be gated in a certain way. It has to be done in a way that will maintain a high player base while not starving players of content. These ideas have been refined over the years into what we call the modern MMO.

Not anymore. You missed out of the glory days of UO by 20 years.
MMOs used to be good. UO, DAoC, SWG, AC and COH/V were such a blast to play, and then that faggot shit nigger garbage WoW came out with it's instant satisfaction and appeal to casuals. I will give that the game was optimized as hell and ran great, but in my opinion it killed MMOs. It was released at the right time to catch the right audience, and that put the nail in the coffin for MMOs.
Any new MMO post-WoW if it tried to do something unique it "wasn't like WoW," and if it did something similar to WoW it "was just a copy of WoW."
There is no more community in MMOs, it's just a trash heap of people pretending they're posting on the chans and trying to "out troll" the next person. They aren't even fucking funny or slick about it anymore. Back in the day with UO we had characters like WTFMan and Galad, and they were masters at fucking with people. That doesn't exist anymore, it's just retards trying to spam the latest meme.

I think I could set one up for us, but I don't have the time to GM or create custom quests. Though, I would at minimum keep the code-base updated and keep database backups. Also I would run it like the old Darktide server with PvP always on.

I can say with 100% certainty that my SAN doesn't compete with what Microsoft/Turbine had running Asheron's. I guess for now I'll begin by reading about the installation requirements / suggestions to see if the hardware I have in production would provide a decent host.

yes, the concept itself is fucked.
Every game eventually gets reduced to doing the same thing over and over and over again

maybe the PvP can have some variety because of the human factor, but the combat is bound to be worse than something developed especially for pvp so why bother

JRPGs

Elder Scrolls Online, barring shitty game mechanics and bugs, had one of the best implementations of a siege warfare PvP system out of any MMOs ever released.

A lot of your critique is just bitching about getting older and not finding children to be funny, because you're no longer a child. That said, what you say about WoW is true. It casualized the genre to the point that it's garbage for virtually every MMO after. It made devs realize that casual content was the best way to make money. That was the downfall of MMOs.

Nigger WoW is as casual of a game as it gets since its inception.
It was the facebook shit of its time. Do you really think even 10% of its original userbase played anything but WoW?

im constantly selling rare mods for very cheap. i dont use WTS though, i always just look for WTB. i sell shit i have for cheap and always get the bid.
i use random prime parts to buy the stuff from that guy that comes to the relays. i look for cool things. stock up. then after a few months im able to sell it for a good amount.

i still find people willing to buy syndicate weapons. i offer 15-20p and get sales immediately. most people will sit on it for months waiting for 40-50p thatt may never come.

switch your locale. i noticed eastern NA is horrible. western NA more people are willing to buy

i wish it was just done like a store. where i can just select items im willing to sell and their prices. and users can search through people online and choose to message you.

The main mistake that was made in WoW was not ending the MMO after WotLK. That should have been the final expansion.

I disagree. I laugh at a lot of stupid childish shit, but when the chat is just stupid meme shit nonstop it isn't funny.

All online games are like MMOs. Anything good about them will be nerfed or removed later down the line assuming there's patches coming out. Team Fortress 2 is a great example of this sort of evolution towards an inferior product.

Good on paper shit in reality. It sounds exactly like what MMOs should be, but in reality it's a massive hub where you can't do anything for miles and miles because everything is claimed by some autists who almost certainly aren't currently playing thus it's all ghost town, and IIRC people will have raided all your shit overnight unless you claim land too or walk 8 hours to some back water fuck of nowhere until you can never find your way back again and then build there.

You'll never see another person unless you find a group and play with them, or bring a bunch of friends and play with them. In a sense it seems like an open world where you play a contained local multiplayer game, with some ways to visit other people's local multiplayer games.

It's hard to put into words what has happened to Runescape. On the surface it doesn't seem that bad, but if you played all the way from pre-hd RS2, then the more you play modern Runescape 3 the more it starts to chew bits and pieces from your heart and soul. How something so unique and different could be reduced to the steaming pile of soulless wannabe WoW shit it is today is so utterly unbelievable that it makes me not want to believe Runescape 3 real.

There's so many things completely wrong with it that I don't know how to describe it. But to put it in another way, the audience of RS2 in it's heyday seemed to be people who like open ended roleplaying-style games, who play it because it's fun to play and there's interesting content and a lot of freedom to approach everything in whatever way you think of. The audience of Runescape 3 are people who play assfaggots and watch esports on twitch and hate having to make decisions.

Old School Runescape is okay-ish, sort of. Maybe. If you know anything about democracy you should already be able to guess what kind of utter shit people vote into that game. Doesn't help that the developers seem very out of touch with what actually made the game good, and pander to people who want endgame content and for the game to be more like Runescape 3. The new content kind of makes me grind my teeth and go "…ooookay, I guess that's alright." It's right on the border of being good, and missing the point and being shit. There's some definite improvements over what the game was back when it was originally made though, mostly technical such as the ability to unlock the UI and scale the window to any size, better camera controls and other options.

No. That's the tragedy of losing CoH is that there is nothing else like it on the market.

Bait, it isn't. You only have players because they are gating everything behind patches. Literally WoW tier, and you can STILL only be lvl 70-80 after 6 years. Think about that. The game fucking takes more from PSU than PSO. No ID hunt system, trading (the most useful activity in PSO1) is gated behind premium, and you can't even buy any good weps unless you pay. There is no attribute system to weapons, you literally solo 1-60 because nobody else in 2017 is lvl 1-60, unless its a stale EQ to level quick. Get out dude. Also its a cancer weeb simulator, the fuccking dev's shilled the weeb market to get their money and players, look at this crap. Not to mention the gay anime and every fucking anime collab.

MMOs are only good for exploring to see the sights and helping dumb bitches get cosmetic stuff for sexual favours.

Your mom doesn't have a single good son.

Theoretically it's a risk-reward system. Get good or die, and lose your progress so you have to get good all over again. In practice it's just a way to waste the player's time if he's bad and make him lose interest in the game, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. In an MMO with open PvP without level restrictions, all it means is that high level assholes can stop noobs from doing anything fun, kill them repeatedly to sell their shit, and basically bully people out of the game.

This is a bad thing why?

Now imagine for once that you're not the bully.

I have autism. Which means I have no empathy.

In other words: git gud if you feel inferior.

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That's some really nice ID.

Runescape prevented this by only setting certain regions as PvP, so that if you went there, you knew what you were getting into (while also hiding a lot of good shit in the area). The low level players then had only themselves to blame if they decided to risk it and ended up dead, losing their equip.

That being said, I believe the best solution is to have the player losi his equip, but to also have certain high-end equip difficult to get, and to even have certain items in limited supply, or even unique, so that some things are literally impossible to get unless you buy or steal them from another player. When the player's offline, his items would be stored somewhere in-game (so that a dead account wouldn't cause the loss of some unique item), where it would be difficult to get and where the player could invest to make it even harder. Doing so would bring the thief class a lot of new mechanics, content, and fun. While high level thiefs would theoretically be able to break into a low-level player's home and steal his shit, the price for doing so (various one-use equipment to get past certain traps, etc.) would outweight the gain from robbing some newbie casual. If the thief died during the home invasion, his equipment would go to the home owner, making it even more of a risk.

The result of these mechanics would be that there would be several ways to gain good equipment (buy, kill, steal, catch thief in traps and rob) that would be in constant demand and often changing hands, giving the world a lot of liveliness. The concept could be expanded upon with raidable guild vaults, which would be much harder to rob but usually also contain a lot more items as guild members would store their valuable shit there rather than in their less secure homes. This would give room to naturally emerging guild wars, as one guild gets pissed about the other stealing its shit, etc.

That's a tor ID, newfag.

Are we really doing this again?

nice b8, fag

League before Trident bought it was good
Smite is alright but the character design makes me want to puke, it is still average.
Dawngate was great but of course EA purposely let it die because it wasn't making them enough shelkels and lack of advertisement.

I was one of the people who wanted it to stay 100% pure Old School.
But honestly some of the changes are very nice.

I wish that stuff like Raids and the Inferno didn't solely cater to the top 1% of players, but this is a very common trend among MMOs, its almost unavoidable.

I think what the is lacking is some mid-tier bosses, something akin to Barrows, where maybe the money isn't exactly top tier for some ultra maxed out account autist, but it is good enough for people in the mid level. Barrows is also "instanced" to each player, so lower levels dont have to worry about getting out DPSed by some massive fag.

(you)

autism doesn't mean you have no empathy, user
you're likely a psychopath or sociopath

FEZ is Square's best MMO and it's fucking dead

Uh, autism doesn't have have anything to do with that. That's a common misconception due to autists having a hard time reading other people. When I know someone is sad it makes me sad as well, but it usually has to be pretty obvious, you can't just try and drop hints. It's why autists and women are bitter enemies.

Because it makes PvP pointless. If you're gonna start a fight with 100% chance of winning, something that the game forces due to stats, power creep and level gap, there's no point to even have a fight. Just have the lower level player die in one hit and move on.
Consequentially, this means that PvP between different levels boils down to: if there's an higher level player in Zone X, you can't go there. That's it, going there is entering a fight with 0% chance of winning.

The only time PvP makes sense is if you go against players with equal level but why would you do so when you risk your equipment? And if you don't risk your equipment, what do you even get out of this when you could be farming?
It's because of this problem that PvP arenas were made, so PvP autists could have their equal-grounds place with rewards for PvP.

Another reason is that if a player can keep another from playing the game, that's the same as someone coming over to your PC and pressing Alt+F4 everytime you start the game. If you're not even playing the game, why even bother? You'll tab out and wait for the other guy to move away or even just go play something else.
This means the population of the game slowly dwindles with only the top fags remaining since they gang up on any new player since there's nothing else to do and they aren't gonna start shit with people that can actually kill them.
So the game dies. Enjoy being the most powerfull player in a game with no one else.

For a chance to get their equipment. That's exactly how PVP works in Runescape for instance and the "PVP scene" in that game used to be HUGE. It wasn't full world pvp, but anyway.

PVP in Runescape was sort of genius when you think about it. The further you go into the wilderness, the bigger the level gap between you and the opponent can be. In low level wilderness you can fight people of similar level to you, and in high wilderness there's a chance to fight people of much lower level than you and get easy loot, but similarly there's a chance someone much higher level can fight you and wreck your shit, plus it's harder to run away when you're deep in. More risk but more chance for reward. Also the more equipment you bring, the more you risk losing but the better chances you have of winning, and you only risk as much as you choose to.

The only thing missing would be proper content, if there were cities and more proper skilling locations it would have created even more interesting dynamics because non-pvpers would attract sleazy pvpers, and sleazy pvpers would attract other pvpers. But if you didn't want to risk anything, you could just do your thing outside wilderness. That already happened to a small degree when abyss runecrafting was added, there's a guy in low level wilderness that allows you to runecraft very effectively, and it was often a hotspot for player killers to fight both runecrafters and each other.

Come to think of it, there's runite ore in wilderness, which also attracts player killers. The area between the ardougne teleporter and mage arena was also a significant pvp place because players have to pass through to get to the mage arena and there's some spider web obstacles to slow them down.

Yeah that would be cool.

Are there private servers with the original ultima online?

PSO1.

...

Im digging black desert online

I liked DDO, too bad it doesn't have a private server.

You can still play it in nippon land *i think* but the time i played it was pretty precious to me. I just want someone to make an english private server with the build where there were no fencers or cestus. Also Cessedria will always be cesspool to me.

They aren't the same. Server populations are way too small for it to play anything like the original and the community that made it amazing is gone. The software itself is a dumpster fire and is nothing without it.

It promotes actual attachment to your character and work you put into it. It also forces you to play with or against the said Community that is in the game.

They didn't do the CE update for the playerbase. They did it because the playerbase was falling off rapidly and they needed to make money off the game because it was costing them a lot to keep it running. They mostly did it by making the combat more actiony and giving players more "instant gratification" when the game wasn't really designed around that.

That's a big problem with mmorpgs in general is because they cost an enormous amount to develop and maintain it is rare one actually improves over time and tends to get worse as developers get desperate to find ways to keep players paying money for the game.

Dungeon Fighter Online. OP's a faggot who only thinks about gaijin-produced shitstains.

Square only cares about Final Fantasy MMOs these days.

It would be great to get English private servers.

What painting is this please.

What? Then who the fuck is playing it now?

reverse image search it fag

Man, that and the Polish. Only game where ethnic cleansing and extortion were promoted through linguistic barriers, eventually you learn to pick some of the language up so they'd leave you alone.

Excuse me, I wasn't speaking to you autist.

The biggest, fundamental problem with MMOs is that other people have to be in the game.

The second problem with MMOs is that they're designed to be grindy and not fun.

GTFO.

But if they are at the same level as you are, they probably have equally good equipment unless they are fools, so you're risking your stuff for something you'll likely sell.
And there's bound to be better ways to get cash than risking your gear, so it's still back to the same question, why PvP to begin with?

I'll agree that Runescape did a nice thing there however, with the ore that only spawned in wilderness, rewarding players traveling there.

A community that plays to win, doesn't passively roleplay, is often from another country, communicates largely out of band, and sees systems instead of a world.

figures a normalfaggot cunt couldn't find anything on his own, nys

Of course. Some pvpers carried items worth millions because they're very powerful and gave them an edge. Even when the fighter's gear is unbalanced, the guy using a strong items wants to fight because they're likely to win, and the guy using weaker items wants to fight because of the potentially huge reward while not risking nearly as much themselves.

There was also many tricks involved that require skill, for example switching to a strong but slow weapon when the other player's HP is low, using weapon special attacks at the correct time, and delaying your healing as long as you can because eating food gives you a pretty significant attack delay. Then there's the protect items prayer that allows you to keep your most valuable item on death, which especially caused people to risk more valuable items, and causes people to attempt methods to drain the opponents prayer in order to get the valuable item. If you were good at PVP you could make a lot of money in a short time, plus high risk/reward situations are a lot of fun to many people.

Also it was somewhat easy to escape low level wilderness too because if you go through the border, nobody can attack you anymore after a delay of 5 or so seconds. So if you played very safe, you were unlikely to die, although also less likely to win. There's also spells to bind the other player in place for 5-15 seconds so they can't run.

This and nowadays it doesnt really matter how good your MMO is, it'l still be shit just because the vast majority of the playerbase is the kind of shits you wouldnt want to play with at all.

There's just no escape, even decent guilds/clans tend to get infested with few token cunts after a while and then it will all spiral down into shit unless you&your buddies are in total control and can kick the cancer out before it spreads.

I remember spiral knights being pretty good, but I'm not sure if you can count it as an MMO, and I haven't played it in a long ass time so I don't know if it got any better or worse.

PvP is its own reward. It's what the devs realized in UO - they thought that since they weren't rewarding PvP that people wouldn't PvP much yet the early game was pretty brutal. So they kept increasing the penalties for PvP and people kept doing it anyway.
At one point, the penalty was so extreme that if you died after having killed 5 people your character was pretty much ruined, and players responded by powerleveling characters, going on murder sprees, and deleting them and starting over when they died.
You'd think a dev would clue in here and realize that PvP was compelling, but OSI was probably the most clueless developer ever and set out to destroy PvP and wound up killing the game.

MMOs just can't survive in this world of instant gratification anymore.

Real men played CoV.

Somebody never played face of mankind.

GUILD WARS 1
That is all.

You kids disgust me

Not all of us are 35-40 years old gramps

Planetside 2 can be fun.
You should give it a try before it dies

Why don't we just play MUDs?

If your grandparents are 35-40 years old… your family is what's wrong with the USA.

Come play one of the oldest:
telnet eotl.org 2010

It's the same fucking game.

Which?

Well, plenty of grandparents are like 40 when their first grandchild is born…

Not when their grandchild is posting on Holla Forums.

That's true enough. They'd probably need to be at least 50 for that.

id d make an MMO of an existing franchise that is very very very popular in order to get free advertisement from their very autistic fans
but which franchise?

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
maybe I'd make a chao garden mmo where you can only play as chao without any furry animals to raise them like in SA/2

Youngfags don't know about muh EverCrack and the joys of fapping to Firiona Vie as a kid

yeah…
if there won't be a sonic adventure 3, maybe there could be a chao adventure 3

I'm just sad I can't beat your ten level higher hero and wipe my ass with his cape.

I dunno, I'm no expert but I've been looking into MUDs for a while and they seem like they may be worth trying. Why not this guy's:

EverQuest was amazing, I really wanted EverQuest 2 to be a thing but god damn did they fuck up not polishing the game to try and release before WoW and THEN ruin the game further in future updates.

Then Daybreak kills EverQuest Next which had an amazing premise behind it but god damn.

Wasn't EverQuest Next just an attempt at a sandbox MMO? I never heard anything about actual gameplay and content, just sandbox fuckery.

I came back to spite you

And you'll never get FEZ 2. Suck my dick, choke on it

So what I can gather from this thread is that all of the good MMOs are dead. Game death is a design flaw. To this day people are still playing Wolfenstein 3D, but nobody plays or even can play the original Ultima Online, Everquest, Guild Wars and so on. The constant need for updating and patching funnily enough contributes to game death, as the original game slowly but surely becomes less and less present in the current product.

WoW was never good and it ruined Warcraft lore.

Any feelings about Neverwinter?

except they can
All of them can be played on PC, not that you would want to. MMOs were never good to begin with.

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No. It's when you have a massive amount of players interacting with each other. But I guess when you toss in trading and hats, it starts to edge on the boundary.

Warframe is barely an MMO. The only interactions that are large scale is trading and clan researches. Whenever a new shiny prime comes along, it's for sure going to depreciate in value as more people grind for them. As much shit WoW gets, it isn't as shamelessly grindy and shallow as Warframe when it comes to the player economy.

That's an awful idea user. "Punish the player for going offline" is never a good idea and it just penalizes people who can't play 24/7.
Also before you sperg out, Punishing is the active loss of something while reward is gaining something.
You're not punished for not logging in during an event, you miss out on the reward. Because you're not in a worse place than when you started you weren't punished.

You know they lost all credit for stumbling into a decent MMO when they launched their final ex-pack for $60 then turned the game off 60 days later. Right?

If by MMO you mean ~100 active players ever, sure.

Three Towns was the shit

I'm starting to feel as if video games were never good to begin with.

Meant to reply to

I'm playing Project99 right now and I can see why so many people say that the game was so amazing back then, with the larger population and the lack of "metagaming" and mechanical knowledge.

MMOs are highly dependent on community. Shadowbane was fun as fuck free to play because there was a very enjoyable "everyone vs China" dynamic. Every Chinese player is in the same stupid fucking guild in that game. Unfortunately the Western guilds became super autistic and put in requirements like "you need at least 2 years play experience." Was fun while it lasted though.

Someone finally solved it. Think about it, online games are garbage unless you play with anons and even then it's a dice roll. MMOs had such a high threshold for normalfags to cross that most of them gave up from the grind. Removing that barrier along with the general degradation of video games is what led us to the current state of the modern MMO.

I recognize that star. I miss that game sometimes.