Have you ever seen players kill a game, or section of a game instead of devs?

That whole game is a big fat lie

Level-based damage scaling for FIREARMS is fucking retarded. The entire purpose of a gun is that it is a force equalizer. A 115 pound woman can stop a charging 240 pound "youth" with a couple well-placed shots to the pelvis and chest.

Have you ever seen players kill a dev? That would be funnier.

Strike Vector, while its devs did a fantastic job of failing to deliver necessary tools like simple server hosting and then went on to chase console money, the players made it impossible for new players to get into. Double plasma, cloak and harder to detect builds meant new players never got to have fun or learn how easy it is to counter that trash tactic. So we had a community screeching that there weren't enough players and for devs to go F2P or drop the cost of the game instead of the free weekends they'd hold even though the game saw decent sales and often got attention. The real issue were the same screechers then going in and playing as cheesy as possible and turning people off the game. Retards. Now Strike Vector EX is on PC and those French fucks have screwed it up even more. What a shame.

Happened in Ultima Online, but it was considered a bug.

falador massacre never 4get

Blaming something like that on Dota is just being retarded and bitter.

Nice strawman nigger.
But, yeah, bullet sponge enemies are annoying as shit and bad game design, but they dug their grave and really can't fix anything there, since they'd probably need to make the enemies do more damage, but they already do obscene amounts of damage.

ackshually, all of the DLC for the game is optional side activities, and the whole second year of DLC is completely free

Still, don't buy the game.

Every online game gets killed by BRs.

I still love you, Fansy the Famous.

Not if it's paywalled

tf2

Funny you should mention FFXIV and players killing the game. Right now the big meme is everyone focuses on dps including the tanks and healers to the point off tanks will not be in second place of hate, healers are taking way too many risks that end up getting the party killed, and the dps or lack of gets blamed when everyone dies. Normally, you can ignore that shit but now it's gotten to the point that newbs will be kicked out of learning parties because their dps is lacking from a mix of not having the best in slot combined with their rotation not being 100% because it's a new fight. It's one thing to kick the shitter that can't break 1k damage but it's another thing for the tanks and healers to have to worry about dps that badly because "omg, this pt can't skip a phase. GG i'm out."
In short, western servers are a mistake. I miss my comfy jp servers.

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You could be braindead and still pump out acceptable dps with rdm. SB really shit the bed in class design and the western playerbase doesn't help. To this day I will never know why people lose their shit when a party wipes in a learning party. I could see getting upset in a clear party and people should be kicked if they are fucking up in a farm. God damn, the playerbase alone is making me wonder why I still play that piece of shit. Also, fuck the end of SB, al miggers will never answer for their crimes.
At least you are not a mch.

Every single time.

I counter your pic related with Regular Rolled Up Newspaper.

The gay mods were stupid to implement their own political agenda without polling it.
Then again every fucking player votes to put the kind of shit into the game that made them dislike it in the first place.
And then everyone acts like "hurr it doesn't effect you, if you don't like dragon claws just don't use them lol"
This playerbase is fucking cancer.

If dipshits who had no idea what the numbers even meant were never given ACT this wouldn't be an issue. Since its the only measurable data about a players performance people think DPS is literally everything. "Cure? Stone 2 fuck you. Flash? I have DPS to do my man. Rampart? But that's two seconds I could use doing one whole combo move!" Every time you ban someone using a parser, you do your part to slice off these cancerous tumors. I'm up to 12 confirmed ACT kills, all in my inbox.
The best part is I play BRD so its never directed at me when people "oy vey ur dps kvetch," I just take out the trash

It's good to know that you're garbage and didn't raid Alexander Savage when it was relevant.

the amount of parties i keep alive alone, never get a commendation.

It was developers listening to the vocal minority of casuals—the kind that spends more time on the forums than ingame—that ruined WoW. It really pisses me off when devs cut corners off their own creation at the drop of a hat just to serve these people. You're supposed to be game designers, have the balls to stand up and say "Sorry, but this is what we want based on our vision of the game. You don't have to play it if you don't like it." But no, the prospect of milking more casual wallets always wins.

Perhaps if people were dying to enrage more often that would be the case but the fact remains that people that shirk their class roll for more deeps tend to kill the party more often than not and dead party members do zero damage.

I notice that in a lot of online co-op games there will often be a trick to skip large amounts of an area and people will be pissed unless you skip.
To be fair, these sections are often shit enough to make you want to skip.

I dont know if this is completely relevant but Im gonna post it anyway because Warframe's fanbase pisses me off

Granted, it would be imbalanced as fuck given you'd be restricted to Stalker's weapons and abilities against PvE weapons and abilities but it might be fun to invade someone and shit all over them since they dont play conclave

Granted Umbra is coming out soon which will make Excal prime obsolete since all prime has is an 50 more armor and Umbra looks nicer (AKA doesnt have a retarded looking helmet) but DE are fucking kikes for pretending this has anything to do other than "They gave us money and the beta testers didnt"

I was more talking about
But those work too.

The key is not to listen to the players because the players are wrong and don't know what they want. There is also the issue of a different opinion for every player, so trying to cater to any one group is retarded.

Jojo All Star Battle. The core playerbase utterly demolished it and Bamco is still ass blasted that despite managing to actually do their jobs with the patches, no one but diehard nips had picked up on it.

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fuck you, I was going to make a china man immunity killer that eats immunity cat

ZENOS DID NOTHING WRONG

His dad was right to disown him. Pic related is a man who did absolutely nothing wrong and died for his beliefs.

He did everything wrong.

Yup it checks out.

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Check your privilege.

No.

All the servers have such retarded mods on them.

It has also produced some of the best videos.

DELET THIS

"life" RP fags in any game
Ruined gmod and arma

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EvE Online.

The only thing he did wrong was trust the Ascians.

Other than that, Gaius did nothing wrong.

Alright I am a minute in and I can't stand listening to this motherfucker with his constant pauses and sounding like he's unsure of what the fuck he's even saying. Please give me a tl;dr because I just can't cope.

Ascians are just jews jewing jews and 5.0 better fix this mess because if the empire is still considered worse than Hitler by then I will flip my shit.

I always turn off other player's costumes. If I didn't, it would such a massive clusterfuck of furry oc rainbows and I wouldn't be able to see my character.

user, OP was asking for games that were ruined by players not batshit devs.

Granted, some of the worst business decisions of the game were made by those goddamn grandmasters. DE should have kicked them to the curb but the damn Grandmasters suck dick too well apparently.

Usually good players opinion is the opposite of bad player opinion. Both cant be happy unless skill ceiling is low. Which will only expel good players.
That is the point of the fucking game. Chaos.

You're doing god's work user, checkin those double dubs.

Oh, I'm sorry, were you having fun while Rome burned?
It's not a bad game, it's just that its fans developed chronic tunnel vision and murdered WC3 custom games because they needed their fix. The ONLY semi-positive outcome of bothosting is that they merged regions to boost player counts after player volumes had dipped low enough because the lack of game variety was noticeable. Everything else was developed with a cold calculating drive to make DotA better at the expense of everything else.

You're a huge faggot, you know that? You're not a special snowflake and people don't have to play the games you want them to play.

Are FR the BR of Europe?

ruskies are

No it wasn't. Lord Brittish was killed becuase he hadn't activated some GM command to make himself invulnerable.

Frenchfags and Germans are fucking atrocious at any videogame.

Blizzard murdered WC3 custom games. Starcraft 2 happened, and then no competent mapmaker liked Blizzard anymore because Blizzard told them to fuck off instead of fixing shit that was making SC2 custom gaming such shit.

Also, another way Blizzard murdered WC3 custom gaming was by fixing that one glitch mapmakers could exploit to get pointer logic in their JASS code. But by fixing that, they broke like 2 million maps that were stuck in stasis after their creators stopped upating them. So if you want to play some of the old goodies, you're going to have to go back to an old version of WC3.

Don't they also have a clause in their user agreement now stating that they can just take anything you made and own it whenever they want to? AFAIK you can't host anything on a thrid-party distributor either.

Man shit like that is what made early MMOs fucking great. Nowadays shit like that would get you banned for trolling. Can't even play FFXIV anymore because trying to tell someone to learn their class is offensive and a will get you a fucking ban.

M8 that was the devs fault. If someone spits in your face, most will not stay around long enough for them to apologize.

About to read thread about what is in fact entirely devs fault. Servers should not be out of player control. Online communities will always be garbage when they are created for profit.

I know that feel. Since "muh world first cutting edge phase skip speed run over 9000kkk deeps" meme took on, bleed edge raidfags waited in line to suck the fresh theories shat straight from the world first crunchfags assholes and making shit worse than those ERPers in Balmeme. Like you said "It's one thing to kick the shitter that can't break 1k damage but it's another thing for the tanks and healers to have to worry about dps that badly because "omg, this pt can't skip a phase. GG i'm out."

Halo 3 Slayer playlist.
And that is how retards run off people who just wanna play fun allowed modes.

Dragon Age was ruined by faggots, women and husbandofags.
Mass Effect was ruined by monsterfags, fetishists and furries.

I never played 14 but it sounds like the game is about 6ish years behind on the WoW timeline of change. Expect to see people being banned for playing too well or talking at all soon.

OP specifically said to not mention when devs ruined it.

No. It was ruined by EA and Tumblr.

Do you hate all the porn?

Find other…oh right. Halo 3 you couldn't do that.

Furries like you are not people.

French is such a sissy sounding language. You could have the biggest buffest dude speaking french and he would not be intimidating

Thanks doc.

What was once a playlist of chill fun allowed like Dual Wield Only, Shotty Snipers, and Everyone Gets A Gravhammer turned into nothing but BRs…

Nah the porns great go fuck yourself

Correct

Its to financially protect themselves in case another DoTA happens. Incidentally, we're past the golden age of customs, nobody wants to put effort into it when they can steal it, and the terms are too restrictive anyways, killing any interest

meant for

I agree, French sounds very sexy and cute when spoken by women but by men it's just unbearably faggy.

This is basically how OSRS works. Jagex has their own forums, but good luck getting their attention if you don't post on reddit. I'll check that site every once in a while to see if there are any big discussions going on, and I always see these stupid suggestion posts asking for Jagex to make one small change to how something works in the game because apparently it's not QoL enough, and they always get tons of upboats, then before you know it it's in the game.

Though to be fair, I don't trust Jagex with making good decisions either, so the game's fucked either way.

Players can only ruin a (multiplayer) game through a dominant cancerous culture. Players may exploit a game-ruining meta, but the devs are the ones at fault for implementing a system that encouraged it, especially in this day and current year when multiplayer metafaggotry is very well-known.

EVE is sort of a grey zone between these two, because while the devs' design is certainly full of holes, the dominant player culture itself is committed to immediately exploiting every flaw in the system to render the game as linear and no-fun as possible. From solo/small groups not engaging anything that isn't directly countered or vastly outnumbered, to corp alliance strategy of abusing mechanics to make enemy groups waste as much time as possible sitting in space standing on guard against nothing, EVE is the pinnacle of the cancerous meta attitude.

any game that the french become involved in really

What are you, an idiot?
Why are you here?

People will obviously do what they want, but that doesn't change the fact that the tunnel vision of the DotA community killed WC3 custom maps.
The other guy is right in that Blizzard didn't lift a finger to save Warcraft 3 (a better game browser with sort-by-name and name filtering would have made it 100% better, and as a software developer I can confidently say these are easy things to do), and they may have actively ruined Starcraft 2, but the "pro" community that spawned the moba community ruined WC3 with their autism. And seeing the shit it's culminated in, and the shitty, bottom of the barrel people who play mobas now, I'm not surprised. It was inevitable.

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By actual definition, a majority is at least 50%. Its the largest group how is it small?

virtually every single multiplayer FPS, if they have large maps and sniper rifles. i can lose all fucking day to players who are actually playing the game, but getting epin noscopedz from some 15 year old faglord a mile away with a barrett thinking he's a badass for hitting you with a weapon you can't counter unless you take one yourself and from a location you either can't see or can't access without putting yourself in his sights makes me want to just chimp out and start throwing feces. jesus christ i hate snipers so fucking much

I love sniping idiots who think modern warfare is arena shooting.

tl;dr version:

In WoW that player became the dev.

I still think that faggot was a Blizzard plant and not amount of actual proof will say me.

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If the players can "kill the game" then there's a fault in the game design, and so it's the devs that killed the game.

Another DotA? So basically, Blizzard wanted to be able to steal your map if it got really big and popular, and turn it into their own cash cow? How the fuck could they not see what kind of blowback that would result in? In what world does this sound like a good pitch:

Why is Blizzard run by such jewish retards?

From what I've heard, Blizzard the company was started by Jews but the actual legwork was done by people who actually played the games with their customers. Now, it's just a bunch of hipsters and SJW who think they're of a higher social caste who's decisions are either based on greed or spite.
Same thing that happened to Atari.

xDDDD ;DD epic rofl ^^

Pull the stick out of your ass and actually get good at the game, Hans.

you german, or "german"?

Fuck if I know, they usually have GER in their name or clantag.

The only one I can think of was Wizardry Online.

When the game opened up in the west they allowed Korean and Japanese players to join the Western servers. When the western servers opened up all these high level Korean players would camp out by the exit of the beginner town and just kill anyone that tried to leave. This went on for about a week and a half and it got so bad that the Japanese devs made a plea to the even higher level Japanese players to help the western newbies. Well, one day out of no where this army of over 100 Japanese players come rolling up in red chest armor and all other surrounding armor in white (Nippon Flag) and just slaughter ever Korean player there. After that we had all these Japanese players that would patrol through the entire newbie continent and kill any Korean player that set foot there. They would be at the player ports and the travel gates and would give them one chance to turn back around.

It was pretty fun and really made me think of .hack in some way.

sounds awesome though

Nips have a long and proud tradition of removing gooks. God bless them.

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Koreans truly are the niggers of online games. I remember back in the Starcraft 1 and Nox days, they constantly said shit like FUCK AMERICA and were generally smug assholes. I got good enough at Nox to singlehandedly massacre Koreans on the tournament server. Never had I felt such national pride as mercilessly purging anti-American Korean fucks from my game while hearing their lamentations. Eventually, I got to the point where I just said FUCK KOREA back to them and get streams of angry, indecipherable Korean autistic screeching in return.

I miss the old days of games like Nox that had virtually no skill ceiling, so you could only ever get better and better, until one day you became a terrifying war god of destruction with no purpose in your life but to lay waste to everything. Even when people hosted party games or other "peace" games where they would roleplay something, like cops and robbers (this was usually on a map with prisons that you could magically lock up; the cops were wizards that would teleport "robbers" into a locked cell), I would just fuck shit up for the lulz, and even their bodyguards and bouncers couldn't keep up. Naturally, I kept ending up getting banned from these games.

Ultimately, my punishment for being a blood god of destruction was that they would stop making games where I could even possibly be a blood god of destruction.

At least in CoD4 they couldn't silence their cheese cannon. Then they bitched at the devs because they hated that they pinged with every shot

Eh, well, in the shitty nuBattlefield games, they can silence their snigger rifles, but, the silencer makes your bullets comically slow, to the point where people can literally dodge your bullets, if they see them coming. I mean, even without supressors, bullets are stupidly slow in NuBattlefield.

OSRS has become the absolute worst. Pic related and they still went forward with it. If you don't know, they use strawpolls during their livestreams to determine what they should poll. This one didn't occur during a stream, but the total number of respondents is damning, and this is even with LGBT groups on reddit invading the strawpoll. At least the riots were fun.

The Grand Exchange also killed the economy. The Nightmare Zone killed melee training. Everyone wears full graceful for everything so the game looks like a bunch of people wearing Assassin's Creed hazmat suits. High level bosses drop skilling resources in such abundance that skilling is pointless. Every other update is a slayer update or just taking something that already exists in RS3 and putting it in the game. New combat content is built around an old bug (prayer flicking) that makes prayer gear redundant. The game has become utter shit. I'm never using a bond again. I wanted 2007scape not this garbage.

It was, but it was also one of the things that turned a lot of causal free to play mmo players off of it. The always on PVP just killed it for a lot of people that didn't want to spend time learning how to sneak around land or dungeons.

DotA ain't bad, it's the only decent assfaggots due to the complexity, everything else is dumbed down. The only problem is that the 2 client is full of PERU if you play on ANY American server, and RUSSIA on any European server.
t. Over 2000 hours in DotA 2 over the years.
File name not related.

Sounds like you need to play vidyascape and play actual 2007-like rs with likeminded autists.

vidyascape.no-ip.org/

Does that fishing spot still not move?

Yes.

any updates on EVE lately? is it still losing players cus autism and the tranny goon devs working there?

I tried WoW around release and it was a shit game back then too.

What's the server pop like? Is it dead as fuck?

mmo-champion.com/threads/2261132-Have-you-ever-experienced-players-help-kill-off-a-game

WoW was pretty much a mix of both
every player wants something else, and the devs/writers are retarded so they actually try to appease some of them rather than just doing what worked for the first two expansions

The guy has a whole like, 6 video series. He does it very slow and pauses a lot but he gets everything right on the head. But the game being dead is completely Bamco's fault. Yes it may be a good fighting game if you take the time, but you would get five times the amount of skill for your time if you were playing something people actually play like Street Fighter or Guilty Gear. Any competitive hopes for ASB was dead on arrival with 30FPS and eaten inputs. Having to dig for the neutral game, while it is there, only served to turn those who did give it a try away from it. A big part of my distaste for the game is something he sort of touched on with expectations vs reality of the game, for example, expecting Jonathan to play like a shoto but him actually being a rushdown kind of character. If you don't know ASB can't watch ASB and understand how a character plays. If you know a little about fighting games, well I know Street Fighter players who can watch me play Guilty Gear and understand half of it. But that's not the case with ASB, especially if you are a fan of Jojo, you go in expecting a character to do one thing and it sort of makes it feel a whole lot less thrilling when they don't play like your expectations at all. It's just a mess, Bamco didn't really fuck it up royally but it just doesn't seem very well thought out. Like, spectacle was first, mechanics second.

dude SWAT lmao

Chromehounds

Players locked in like 3 total viable builds that were an instant win button against everything else.

Was Andrew Gower holding everything together?

its like poetry

OSRS will become RS3. it wont surprise me if they add EoC to it.

EXCEPT QUESTS, BECAUSE WHO CARES ABOUT QUESTS RIGHT???

god i hate jagex and i hope england becomes an islamic state

dark souls 1 the devs made a fine mess as well with the sequals but lets look at 1
because of duels invasions are now dishonorable and hosts and invaders alike will no longer feel bad for literally cheating
this is slow enough its basically a gamble, its not a good idea for you and its annoying for me, lose lose
some stuff like dead angles I dont mind so much, but the devs 100% did not intend for you to be able to say… swing your chaos zweihander around like a painting gaurdian sword after buffing it with darkmoon blade, this makes the weapon much better then they wanted it to be, if they knew you could do that it wouldnt be as good in other ways to make up for it
100% of the rune letter players I have encountered have been hackers, 80% of the hackers I have encountered are rune men
come back you fuggers

Mass effect was ruined by something else

The return bug also allowed you to execute arbitrary bytecode, so that was obviously going to be fixed one way or another.
That doesn't take away that it could've been fixed in a way that doesn't break everything though.

SC2 mapping was a shitstorm from the very start though. The main reason I didn't want to get involved at all was because Blizzard actually had a measly memory limitation of 2MB for scripting. Since this includes variables and there still is no way to allocate variables, you have to pre-allocate a fuckton of everything and hope you don't run out. Which of coures doesn't fit in the memory budget.

If you want to play Overwatch League, Blizzard's official big tournament for it, you have to pay 20m USD.

Blizzard wants to make money, and they realized that letting people have fun and build their own communities (e.g. wc3 maps/dota, sc1 competitive) doesn't earn you as much money as owning the community (e.g. sc2 maps, sc2 competitive).

it probably didn't help that there was no map filter beyond player count so you to flip through at least 6-10 pages of dota before seeing any other custom maps

Good post

StarCraft 2's custom map scene was so robust for the first 2 years of WoL. Then it all just slowly went to shit as Blizzard fucked everything up. There were so many incredible maps that deserved more attention and only got a bit but their dedicated communities kept them alive until StarCraft 2 as a whole declined because of Blizzard's poor decisions. HotS killed it all off in combination with other games taking people away and Blizzard's constant fuckups.

Team Fortress 2.

Any other Euros here know the pain of playing with Frenchies, they singlehandedly made me stop playing the game back in 2011.
They all think everybody else knows French.

Do you know the agony of working your ass off to earn that 1000gs to get the katana, only to have your favorite game modes shitted up by 13 year olds?

There is so many of them in the US army, they are either liberal as fuck/rude and smug. They are annoying. filipinos are pretty cool though

When I started getting into competitive games I thought people were just being cunts when they said frenchies were the worst but its a truth I have come to know and accept. They are the fucking worst people to be around bar none.

It means that the margin of majority is small. I think what that user meant to say was a "very vocal, very small minority of players."

Yeah waifu pedos ruin almost every japanese game that gets released.

Goon detected!

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Players killed Vanguard before it was even out.

Vanguard was pitched as being a return to classic MMORPGs, where that meant not the casual babbyfest that the EQ community considered WoW to be. But it attracted a whole flock of modern gaymer tryhards who never played EQ but wanted to be seen as oldschool hardcores and needed a game to demonstrate what badasses they believed they were, and they saw Vanguard as their chance.

So, the community continually pushed the devs during development (I was on the alpha forums and watched this happening) to make the game absolutely miserable. Long travel times, heavy grind, forced grouping, painful deaths, etc. as playing that would set them apart from 'casual WoW babby scum'.

It was pretty obvious what was going to happen.

The game released and it turns out the tryhards absolutely hate all the misery they pushed for. And since this stuff was so central to the game's design, there's no easy fix that doesn't look like a hack. And so hacks it was - they added teleporters to get between locations and various other quick fixes but you can't quick fix a whole game. The game's performance problems are often credited with its death but it was the misery egged on by the community that was the real killer. Players will play though the unplayable (remember the first months of WoW?) if think the game has potential.

I remember this game and it was a mess. The diplomacy card game in particular was just stupid.

Russia is literally the best server, provided you know the language.
must suck to be an EOP

Snipers infuriate players because they're always the lowest scoring and least useful people on the server, but every so often they fuck somebody up and ruin their day

It's like Spy in TF2, they do fuck all 99% of a match, but when they do kill it's a huge cheese string and it drives people insane because there's little skill involved

youtube.com/watch?v=GM0QzmBCibA the song title is too perfect

You can't rely much on great players to dictate things either, I remember reading about changes being intended for a champion on LoL that were cancelled due to a pro player threatening to drop the game over them.

Frankly I think players should more or less be ignored.

I never did care much for games like this where you had to rely on one person directing everyone around.

Here's your (you), faggot. Go choke on it. Not everyone has to like weebshit for people too spineless to date an actual woman or not mentally strong enough to enjoy being alone.

Ironically, the popularity of competitive Melee seems to play a big part in Brawl being such a large step backward in terms of gameplay.

The main thing I've seen from individual players are the ones who just do crafting and camp the market 16 hours a day. They will absolutely crash the market to maintain their market control. There is just no way to stop them.

Players are pretty good at identifying when something is wrong but very bad at identifying what it is or how to fix it.

kek, this is the truth. And listening to their opinions is the best way to sink a game.

Men in my day had kids and married by the time they were 18 years old, if it wasn't for fucking anime and video games that would be the world today.

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I miss naming myself after STDs and calling everyone jew niggers in silly custom maps so much.

What countries are even good at video games?

As far as I can tell it goes Koreans>Japanese/Americans depending on genre>rest of world

Sounds about right.

The french have been replaced with czech kids by now.

2007 RS thread when?

Not really, Northern/Central Europoors would routinely BTFO of them in Quake/Unreal Tournament LAN matches. Don't underestimate how much Burgers rely on ping and can't handle lag shooting.

L4D online community is cancer in human form and getting kicked immediately for not doing pixel perfect charges with a Charger that kills entire survivors team is not a meme.
I can not even begin to imagine what maked people to become like this.

Lol idiot. DotA 2 is even more dumbed down than LoL. Worst MOBA, worse than LoL worse than Smite.

elaborate

Might be sooner than that user.

Scandinavians are really good at FPS, especially arena shooters.

don't respond to this low grade bait

I don't understand how this didn't become an argument. Valve took far more steps to destroy TF2 than even its worst users. The cancer userbase that's left is just a fixture of the wasteland, similar to how roaches supposedly survive nukes.

eve online, tf2, every moba ever

After inspecting that image with my trained eye I can say confidently that the meme aids is shopped

The main issue I have with stalker PVP is that they said you can attack the objective, which is total fucking bullshit cause not one single stalker will ever try to have a fun fight with other players, they'll just one shot the defense target, be a faggot about it and chat "gg ez :^)", and then leave.

Fuck me for wanting to not be a part of that, right? They could fix be the stalker so easily by having an opt in and out of it, or at least opt in to "PVP Stalker but they can't touch the objective" and most people would be fine with it.

The main thing people are concerned about is

There's a reason nobody plays conclave you fucking nigger.