Welcome to Holla Forums, how brocialist are ya?

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What the fuck is brocialism?

Never heard that word IRL in my entire communist life

only ex-pollacks unironically call themselves this. everyone else should be ignoring what liberals have to say about socialism.

Get the fuck out.

I undestand

"brocialism" is how capitalist liberals who think they are leftist call real socialism

it's what r/socialism and r/anarchism etc calls Holla Forums because we talk about class instead of race and gender

It stinks of something forced in an SJW irc somewhere. We should just brand them back.

All of their threads are on the subject too. It's obvious that capitalism and government is the cause of these things, so to stop anything from cropping up again, the state and class needs to be abolished. Then the socialization that occurred during it can be done away afterwards. They're trying to put bandaids on it at this point

since when is socialism about race or gender? someone needs to educate this people

YOU ARE NOW BANNED FROM R/SOCIALISM

Yea there is, faggot
sjwiki.org/wiki/Brocialism#.WI5Sk1WLSpo
''Brocialism and manarchism are umbrella terms for sexists within the radical left. Specifically used for those who believe that the creation of a socialist, Marxist, or
anarchist system will inevitably bring about gender equality and that therefore no measures need to be taken other than the destruction of the hierarchy imposed by class.''
This already has two definitions in it: sexists or class struggle socialists, therefore sexists in plebbit's eyes

Both of those subs consistently talk about class, but stay in your hug box, brocialist.

this is a bad thread

lel

top kek

Meh. My only problem with idpol is that it tends to attract liberals who think that socialism is just very far left liberalism.

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I'm sorry

Anarchist varieties to include it, tbf, but the methods to enact it are class related

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I should start bringing more Hispanics out here. Get them reading.

Go back to eating cereal over sargon of akkad.

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btw, none of this proves they don't care about class. Congratulations.

it's not that. It's the 1000000+ threads a day where we debate race, gender, etc issues. The fact that not all of us are on the same page, IE that we have members with different levels of both embracing and rejecting idpol here. And because it's an anonymous board where people inevitably post opinions that are so far out for kicks and giggles that it's labelled like that.

Feel free to go register a new account and evade your ban any time you mincing faggots.

where else would you find a definition of brocialist

I don't have to make a new account, I'm not retarded enough to whine about something without knowing a thing about it.

And I don't even actually care about feminism, but I'd support marxist feminists any day over you brocialists wine-sippers.

This for fuck sake!

Gender, Identity and Race creates sectarian divisions, that's why the modern "radical" left is crippled.

Bitch, those divisions are already there. The point of sjws is to erase those definitions, but keep on drinking that kool-aid instead of educating yourself.

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How brocialist am I? I once quoted Zizek on a date.

It was more a response to that being the only place to find a definition than anything.

Nice non sequitur.

Brocialism only exists in your necrotic, reddit addled mind.

r socialism is worse that the Trots and Socdems combined.

plastic penis in plastic vagina

forgot to fly my jolly roger.

There I fixed it. Now explain to me why it's impossible to be both a Marxist and a feminist. Go on.

Also, image related itt.

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Most radical feminists are anti-egalitarian.

Most of the board unironically refers to themselves as brocialists, keep up.

It's not. But please tell me how word policing and pandering to bourgeoisie sentiments within these movements will bring about socialism.

Why don't newcommers just read the fucking FAQ.

lol feminists aren't going to throw you in the gulag for being brocialists and calling feminism anti-egalitarian is a fancy Holla Forums scare tactic. And regarding marx the grand-daddy, other grand-daddies realized we need equality on all fronts. Mikhail Bakunin for example

Yeah, it's not like attempts to make it illegal to criticize feminism have succeeded.

They're not but let's say they are, what does that have to do with the socialists who aren't like that but simply want to address group specific problems, such as general sexism?

K, so where's the problem?
It's not hard to not sound like an edgy 14 year old, try it.
pandering to bourgeoisie sentiments implies that the sentiments mentioned support capitalism in anyway. That doesn't typically happen with socialists.

Because it makes class struggle more attractive to people of all backgrounds and not just edgy white 14 year olds.

Clearly r/socialism is doing something right, look at their growth compared to this board.

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It is not feminism, but liberal identity politics that is the problem. I myself am an feminist in the most basic sense in that I support some sort of a emancipatory movement for both men and women to rid ourselves of the various cultural standards and stigmas that permeate our society. But WHERE ELSE would that take place but the destruction of bourgeois and reactionary ideology during the implementation of socialism? The conditions will only perpetuate the same problems.

You want this to be true so bad, don't you?

When the fuck did socialism become equivalent to progressiveness?

liberals aren't even anticapitalist

When liberals started to feel entitled to co-opt socialism.

t. progressive socialist

←– Yeah, we need more of this.

You have to go back.

Wait you mean liberalism isn't socialism? Why would Rush lie to me?

Again, you want this to be true so bad, don't you?

kys.

Not an argument.

Feel free to make one yourself.

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Which is why I said this earlier

Prejudice doesn't exist in a vacuum along with class struggles. Over centuries we have been gradually socialized to hate each other for porky. It won't just go away once we revolt. I mean look at the unironic nazbols lately, they're class conscious, but haven't shed these chains yet.

Shit like this is why white nationalism or "identitarianism" or whatever it's called is gaining popularity. It's essentially white idpol and is just as justified as non-white idpol. Once again capitalism is creating fascist monsters.

This is the problem. Censoring and no discussion for the slightest, percieved provocation. This is also a big problem as will within many leftist orgs.

It's not hard to not ban people who say words you don't like and who are also socialists and communists.

Second pic related. Anything can be co-opted by bourgeois ideology.

I am sure having people concentrate on their individual differences will unite proletariat towards a common cause. No, but seriously the point here is to transcend you identity and recognize yourself as a member and fighter for the proletariat regardless of who you are.

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Identity politics comes from the New Left, which was a liberal movement. If you embrace identity politics (like most of /r/socialism does), then you are liberals.
Now fuck off back to your torture chamber.

reddit is fucking gay.

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I don't think anyone is defending /r/socialism. it's moreso a discussion on how oppression among factors besides class have separated the prole from each other

Since the r/soc drama I came here and am more comfortable. There's a huge fucking difference between voting for Trump, actively agitating and demanding political representation for policies that stoke racial tensions, and simply cussing the word "cunt" or "nigger" under your breath. I typically avoid saying words like that, just because its a bad look, but the level of reaction people have toward them, as if its on the same level as 3rd world hunger is the height of liberal moralism. r/soc acts this way and its making them (and will continue to) look like a bunch of fucking imbeciles.

I'm still supportive of feminism and generally in favor of most forms of protest, its just that for a while I think I started to internalize some of the idpol @ plebbit too much to a point where I was echoing "white male tears" kind of bullshit.

Now, if someone is peddling that kind of crap I just stop listening or taking them seriously.

lel seriously that is the fucking DUMBEST fucking meme ever FUCK

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Fuck off back to reddit

Has anyone got the analysis of this image someone made. Like a post on how their eyes are covered to deny their humanity.

More than 85% of the sub supports the rules. Everytime there's drama, it's only a very small minority, there's no problem with censoring sexist communists when there's no actual need for them. It's much more productive to radicalize liberals and people of all backgrounds.

That's your problem. Most people are fine with words like autism and nigger being bannable, get over it. It also allows for much more intellectual non-heated discussion.

So how is this an argument? Clearly I'm defending feminists who succumb to supporting capitalism.

Yeah, you don't seem to know much about social justice movements. Just like liberals don't know dick about Marx and still hate it.

That doesn't contradict pointing out problems specific to different groups along the way, really this isn't complicated. I can both support Leninists while attacking the different sexist/racist outcomes of capitalism along the way.

sexism is gay dude fuck off

Vehement opposition to sexism is still idpol

Literally everytime it gets brought up the mods get downvoted into oblivion.

Liberals don't support overthrowing capitalism. Drink bleach.

>>>/reddit/

r/socialism regularly bans people for defending Obama. There tons of liberals there.

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been in jail for ALLEGED anti woman crimes.

Top it, you can't. I'm the frosted tips of brocialism

Tired of this bro-shaming.
Only a few years ago being somebody's bro was a good thing.
Make leftism brotherly again.

A lot of us are saying that class struggle IS the struggle that will unite all of us. An historical example from Howard Zinn's "A people's history of the United State of America" is Bacon's rebellion.

The rich and powerful buy up land around cities, forcing poor whites to settle in frontier territory while doing absolutely NOTHING to prevent Indian attacks.

As a result, both BLACK SLAVES and POOR WHITES banded together to revolt against the rich elite since they vastly outnumbered them. It scared colonial leaders so much that after Britain sent reinforcments and destroyed it, they started incorporating more and more laws that reduced interactions between blacks and whites while making conditions better for white workers.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacon's_Rebellion

Pic related is what we want to avoid happening.

Sorry I forgot you. You need to fuck off to reddit too!

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You mean, stunted discussion

reddit cunts have "kill all white people" flair, "brocialists to the gulag" and other shit. they peddle this constantly and you're here bitching as if they don't. i mean, there is actual threads of people in r/@ defending anyone with a "POC" flair regardless of what random inane shit comes out of their mouth, whether or not it is even based in a class analysis. fuck these people

like, that stuff is the reason i left. i am not pretending this place is without fault, but that's why i like it, nobody is claiming this place is all sunshine in rainbows. there's nazbols, nazis, feminists, and class reductionists all in the same forum. bad ideas tend to not survive around here IMHO but its funny how people come here for

Yes! Now you're getting it! Get out!

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This is just board culture, nobody actually goes around calling people niggers and faggots outside of the board.

Not an argument.

There's also tons of marxists, not an argument.

It is, or there would be drama everyday.

Someone who doesn't think egalitarianism doesn't have a primary role in communism, is in fact sexist yes. Because you yourself are admitting you're ok with whatever problems as long as we somehow make it to communism.

Son, the world is a complicated place, stop memeing and put on your boots.

You want this to be true so bad.

But this isn't the 1800s. That division by the bourg has been going on again and again, it's a part of the culture. It starts with the prole banding together and then after, abandoning those petty sentiments.

Sorry, I meant to say "Someone who thinks egalitarianism doesn't have a primary role in communism, is in fact perpetuating sexism/biggotry yes"

You did it! You won the prize!

What I mean by this is, the reason I know just the level of insanity that comes from Holla Forums s because I use spaces where you can say anything, so they can give me the full extent of their bigotry. This is how I know all the whacky shit they believe about race realism, and how I have gradually improved my ability to counter it.

You can only understand your opponents by interacting with them. Sometimes this means hearing things you'd rather not, or being spammed with images a man covered in faeces while fisting himself, or what you have you, but the dialectical progression is worth it. Without out, how are we supposed to reach any kind of unity, ever? If we can't even see and understand exactly what our enemies look like, because we cover our eyes?

i can't leave. i have to stay for her

Similarly, oft times, on the internet, I may for example assume the position of a Nazi, and post as a Nazi, but on 4chan, in ways that show the contradictions of Nazism, for one thing, its fun and I like it and another I find its a good rhetorical play for making said Nazis look like tools, and perhaps making them feel like tools, which might convince them one day.

In a stunted environment, this isn't possible

Please do something truly egalitarian and stop us from suffering your presence.

I know, but retarded redditors ACTUALLY think this is real and exaggerate it to the Nth degree to enforce their stupid idpol narrative. And it works. So forgive me for being so ass chapped

This is what they actually believe

That's why we're going nowhere

Please don't let Holla Forums become an "anti-sjw" drama hell. Please.

If we're against sexism (which pretty much all of us are), but believe that it's a separate issue - a social issue and not an economic one - to be tackled independently of abolishing class, this makes us sexist?
If the above is not true, and you believe that communism itself will abolish sexism, then what you said before would also be OK and not sexist "so long as we make it to communism".

Either way you look at it, the inclusion of feminist theory as a primary concern/point in a forum dedicated to socialism/communism doesn't make sense. It's one thing to argue the points of how it is related, but to slander anyone who disagrees as being sexist themselves is absurd ad hominem.

Liberals aren't on the left, though, and they are impotent. This is the only non-identitarian leftist hub on the Internet. You have a million other places to go to (reddit, 9gag, facebook, twitter). Why can't you leave us in peace?

Pray tell mon cherie, could you define for me please 'intelligent discussion' ?

Is it where saying it white is saying it right and language is cloistered and clipped and checked? Where the sensibilities of lets face it probably middle class white kids dictate what is and is not 'intelligent discussion'?

Are we to assume the position of the pearl clutching bourg? Flatten out our language and push things under the rug? Never use any four letter words because that wouldn't be 'intelligent' enough?

You do realize a majority of the working class have potty mouths. Even they will use racist terms. Even when a lot of these people who use these terms are not actually racists, they are just uneducated and YOU.

You from your ivory tower wanted to dole out and judge what makes them bad people, what lets you point fingers and ban and block and silence etc and so fourth what are probably well meaning people but your thin skin and sensibilities just can't handle it.

You realize that whatever definition of intelligent discussion and intelligent use of language you can give me will ultimately be one bound up in notions of white male priviledge, as it will inevitably be they who have come to dictate the terms of what constitutes 'an intelligent discussion'

So go on, define it.

idpol is the culture of division, if the obsessives can't accept this place is one track minded then they should go find somewhere that accommodates them rather than attempt to bring over the exact sort of shit that that drove them here in the first place.

We've already broken 100 of them, we'll have them gone by the end of the week.

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Who? Sjws oranti-sjws?

Why does every leftist space have to be a Holla Forumstards wet dream?

I support places where trolling and outright bigotry is censorable, that doesn't mean I don't think the alt-right can have their own safe space.

Ok, where did I imply otherwise?

Go to Holla Forums or Holla Forums. There's nothing wrong with forums where people would rather discuss theory instead of uploading pictures of fisting.

It's not a stunted environment for Leftists, and that's what matters. It really isn't that hard to figure out how to debate Holla Forums otherwise, market fundamentalists never bring anything new to the table.

By the looks of it the reddifugees are getting sick of us telling them to fuck off and are leaving, see index for user count.

Kill yourself. Stop acting like you're from here you absolute faggot.

see

Unity is overrated.

True. Well said comrade.

Don't be such a LARPer.

If I actively participate in feminism and on all accounts consider myself a feminist, and also believe in and participate in socialism, but believe the two are separate agendas, I'm an actual bigot and sexist to you? That's insane

This thread gave me death and I have died of it.

That's not at all what I said.

I've got friends who are girls who tell me otherwise.

>Someone who thinks egalitarianism doesn't have a primary role in communism, is in fact perpetuating sexism/biggotry yes
>Someone who thinks egalitarianism doesn't have a primary role in communism, is in fact perpetuating sexism/biggotry yes

They don't the majority of leftist spaces are in fact extremely cliquey IRL, I would imagine Holla Forums would not want to turn up, if they do, would it not be better to allow them to be their full self, so that you can be yours, so that you can perhaps have a real human experience, rather than talking past each other?

If they, for example, use this to attempt to disrupt,the numbers are inevitably on our side, so it isn't something we have to worry about, the only way the numbers will stay on our side is if we are inclusive rather than exclusive. That is the only way.

Online, in discussion forums, the same applies, and we do deal with lots of shitposting, but it adds to the discussion, which still manages to be about socialism, but because none socialists come here, we are constantly challenged. This is only a good thing.

So again, you want to break people down into little safe spaces, little circle jerk circles. This is a sure fire way that you will NEVER EVER manage to come to consensus. Ever. Period. You will never change them. They will never change you. Unless it is by violence, because you have cut off any other means.

>Ok, where did I imply otherwise?

I didn't say you did, its just part of my argument.

Here we have both, I find it improves the theory discussion.

This is precisely the reason we have a bigot for the US president. Other people DO matter. They matter a whole fucking lot. If you have any pretended notion of democracy, then everybody matters, not just the leftists. If you can't see this you are truly too far gone.

Yes you did, you said if someone doesn't believe that feminism has a primary role in communism, they are perpetuating sexism and bigotry by having that opinion.

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Yeah I know, and I'm not a liberal, I would probably even be called a "brosocialist" by the redditors. (I've never had an account there.) I'm criticising the so-called socialists of r/Socialism in all this useless divisionism.

Same as above. Also I actually agree with you.

Also this .

Whatever you say, Holla Forums.

Very.

youtube.com/watch?v=WHjWJ9WBPEI

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"The 1960s also saw the emergence of yet another form of nationalism on the Left: increasingly ethnically chauvinistic groups began to appear that ultimately inverted Euro-American claims of the alleged superiority of the white race into an equally reactionary claim to the superiority of nonwhites. Embracing the particularism into which racial politics had degenerated instead of the potential universalism of a humanitas, the New Left placed blacks, colonial peoples, and even totalitarian colonial nations on the top of its theoretical pyramid, endowing them with a commanding or “hegemonic” position in relation to whites, Euro-Americans, and bourgeois-democratic nations. In the 1970s, this particularistic strategy was adopted by certain feminists, who began to extol the “superiority” of women over men, indeed to affirm an allegedly female mystical “power” and an allegedly female irrationalism over the secular rationality and scientific inquiry that were presumably the domain of all males. The term “white male” became a patently derogatory expression that was applied ecumenically to all Euro-American men, irrespective of whether they themselves were exploited and dominated by ruling classes and hierarchies.

A highly parochial “identity politics” began to emerge, even to dominate many New Leftists as new “micronationalisms,” if I may coin a word. Not only do certain tendencies in such “identity” movements closely resemble those of very traditional forms of oppression like patriarchy, but “identity politics” also constitutes a regression from the libertarian and even general Marxian message of the “Internationale” and a transcendence of all “micronationalist” differentia in a truly humanistic communist society. What passes for “radical consciousness” today is shifting increasingly toward a biologically oriented emphasis on human differentiation like gender and ethnicity ―not an emphasis on the need to foster of human universality that was so pronounced among the anarchist writers of the last century and even in The Communist Manifesto." - Bookchin

This is the most well sourced strawman I have ever seen, I'm going to go get a medal from google images just for you.

I take it back, Bookchin is the frosted tips AND the popped collar of manarchy

He bros so hard its fucking fraternal. And with just words, magnificent

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gg.

I liked that excerpt, is it in any Bookchin book?

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democracynature.org/vol2/bookchin_nationalism.htm

Here, user.

Thanks m8

I spent yesterday watching anime, drawing two twin sisters from said anime engaging in ageplay and BDSM, and then masturbating while imagining the scenario. I've spent today reading yuri doujins.

I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

出来ないのか

Already posted one warm-up sketch in the drawthread on /abdl/. The good stuff will follow as and when I have time to actually finish them. I'm still a relative beginner, so I find it difficult to get all the proportions just right, especially on the first attempt.
I usually end up doing a couple of paper sketches, then scanning them in and doing a couple more passes of tablet sketching before I'm even half satisfied. I probably won't waste time making the inking very neat though. That's tedious and doesn't really teach me anything. In fact I'll probably just post the sketches and then come back and ink them after I've had some time to see all the mistakes I've made.

For instance, I can already see I made her neck too long in that one. It's easier to fix that kind of stuff digitally where I can cut and paste.

This. People need to fucking read Zinn
I wish I could buy every liberal in America a copy and kill the internet for a week.

Based.

That is a useful wikipedia thank you family very

I agree. The term has no real meaning and brings only negative connotations. Let it die.

Very. How r women opressed in western countries if anything they are privleged?

How brocialist am I? How brocialist am I?! I once held an opponent's wife's hand. In a jar of acid. At a party!

They don't want to erase the divisions. If they did they would actually do shit about it and figure out how to make their ideology more palatable to the populace instead of literally throwing tantrums in public.

This is because if they erase the divisions they lose their power and stop getting donations from idiots. They must keep the divisions in place in order to give themselves a purpose in life.

This. The really wordy comp goes into this with some detail. A lot of differences are socially constructed, just to give a sense of meaning to aspiring activists in the wake of "the end of history"

But don't most actual historians kinda frown upon his work?

North's understanding of Adorno is utter garbage and it's a shame he lumps him in with "those postmodernists".

But he doesn't. Have you read it?
You can't address how both contribute to the politics of the pseudo-left in the same book, now, without people accusing you of saying they're "the same thing"?

It's not even this, it's that we talk about class and gender and oppression in a way that doesn't suit their liberal sensibilities. They don't want a change in the base, just minor cosmetic changes in the superstructure- their primary interest isn't advancing socialism, or a more libertarian form of leftist thought, their interest is in a brutal, murderous system that has a slightly higher proportion of minorities ruling it.

Most people here do care about race and gender and homophobia and what have you, but at least we recognise the root cause and are fighting against that instead of trying to put a new coat of paint on a crumbling, decaying edifice.

As I said, liberals are nazis and nazis are liberals, it's all the same fucking shit.
Race and gender are the most retarded concepts humanity came up to, they don't fucking exist at all.

Not yet, but considering the sort of attacks North is liable to make against any 'idealist' project I'm not sure if it's even worth it.

Most historians are bourgeois cucks more interested in comfy tenure rather than rocking the boat

wew

QUADS CONFIRM

READ NORTH
READ NORTH
READ NORTH
READ NORTH
READ NORTH

youtu.be/_IO_Ldn2H4o?t=44m30s

kys yourself

i've been posting on a spanish language imageboard trying to recruit, itshappening.png

It's amazing they have the time to talk about class given how busy they are being literal FBI informants.

Leftists have been deliberately and systematically purged from American academia. The authority you ascribe to "actual" historians is that which is given to them by a capitalist system designed to insulate itself from criticism.
This isn't just empty speculation either, there is documented evidence, like this leaked memo from the 70s, which was widely circulated among the economic elite and outlined plans to stifle criticism and control discourse in the media, purge leftist faculty on college campuses, excise leftist content from textbooks, and produce pro-business propaganda disguised as scholarly research.
More info/plaintext version reclaimdemocracy.org/powell_memo_lewis/

lol ok there bud.

But yea, the people who claim all cis-white straight males are scum are there to ease divisions. If you are white and don't hate yourself, SJWs will do everything in their power to make you hate yourself.

Such unity!

No, it's to reify them.

That's literally the difference between SJWs and the left; SJWism is the embrace of the far-right conception of identity in a "left" minority context.

His understanding of the intellectual foundations of modern idpol-driven """leftism""" is probably better than anyone's.

We usually deal with it in a rudimentary way here, "D&C, no war but class war," etc. but there's a further level of sophistication and actual historical analysis to be done, if we care about comprehending the real nature of these movements.

The better part of it was written before 2012, i.e. in a pre-OWS, pre-gamergate world. We're spoiled in a way because we have a type of immediate feedback from current events and can comfortably substitute a sort of crass, reactive, political impressionism for theory in key areas - but there's more work to do if you want to correctly predict the actions of "leftist" parties (Syriza) and guide one to actually achieving revolution.

At worst it's a thorough examination of the philosophical underpinnings of Marxist thought, what makes scientific socialism so different/special, and the professional anti-Marxism of the bourgeois academe, which alone make it worth reading, but I found it a particularly relevant, timely work as well.

Really? Because a review of the book calls it out as nothing more than a character assassination of Adorno for a fabricated complicity with the Stalinist regime, leaving the ground open for North to preach Trotsky.

what exactly do you mean by frown upon? Like how Hillary Clinton frowns upon anarchist communism?

Do you mean they think it is inaccurate in its facts? Because that is something different, or is it a difference of opinion?

There is nothing bad about the term bro or socialist.
The problem with post-modern feminism is that they always invent new terms to insult you.
There are no rules, all truth is subjective.

Was it this one? marxandphilosophy.org.uk/reviewofbooks/reviews/2016/2189
I haven't seen a negative review that couldn't be blown out of the water by anyone who read the book as anything other than a bitter fishing trip to attack North. Just scroll down to some of the comments.

The real irony here is in the accusation of sectarianism. Since North is a "sectarian," sectarian critiques of his more academic work are true by default, to people who never plan to read it.

If a "socialist" campaigned for Obama in 2008, you'd call him inexperienced or optimistic. If that same """socialist""" campaigned for Obama in 2012, you'd probably raise one and a half eyebrows.
If he responds then to his ultimate, johnny-come-lately disappointment in the Obama tenure by tearing at the intellectual foundations of socialism itself and declaring it a defunct, useless theory in need of serious modification, if not ground-up reconstruction, rather than critically examining his own theoretical weaknesses in understanding and interpreting it, that tells you something.

I mean, just as it was cheeky of Fukuyama to claim that the fall of the USSR demonstrated the "End of History" when it was essentially predicted in the original theory and then more explicitly by Trotsky >50 years prior

Concern trolls raus!