#13526362th DLC Thread

what if it's made after the game is released?

Then it's called an expansion pack, like all "DLC" should be.

whos to say some expansion packs werent in development before the games initial release? is that even shady?

DLC is content that older games used to reward players with for free. If you pay for it, you literally pay the industry to treat you as a stupid nigger that buys stuff that should be in the game from the beginning.

>>>Holla Forums

>>>Holla Forums7127263

Get lost

Holla Forums isn't a person, you dense faggot of an OP.

Terrible analogy. It's more like this:
Then - ordering a pizza got you 12 slices with garlic sauce included. This cost $16. Sometimes, there was a special where you could get a second pizza of the same kind for just $8.
Now - the same $16 order the chain calls a full pizza gets you as little as 4 slices depending on the chain. Garlic sauce is an optional, $1 add on, and there's a high probability the chef will fuck up your order and you end up with some slices lacking sauce, cheese, toppings, or all of the above. More slices come at roughly $3 a slice, bringing the price of the complete 12 slice pizza to $40. If you don't mind waiting until the pizza is rotten, you can get all 12 slices and garlic sauce for $10.

Dlc isn't inherently bad, but greedy publishers have jewed the hell out of it, so it's fucking terrible money grubbing in the vast majority of cases. Exceptions being things like expansions that are actually made post release and don't feel like they were hacked off the main game to resell.

DLC like most things can be done right and can be done wrong.

The right way is the way Fallout of all things does it. Fallout DLC is usually fairly sizeable and adds completely new maps and questlines to the game, they tend to be pretty disconnected or different from the main game too, so they don't feel like a piece of the original game being sold to you separately. It feels like extra pile of content added on top of the finished game.

Your metaphor is dumb. If you order a 12-slice pizza, that's what you get. The DLC would be the extra oil or ketchup or side dishes you could get with it.
If you want to go with that metaphor, would you expect free soda with your pizza just because you paid full price for the pizza?
It's really not that simple and it's worse when you use food as an analogy.

Also, understand this: games are sold in a free market which means there are a few good and bad perks that come with it. One of the biggest ones is that DLC exists because there is a sizeable portion of the market that will buy it and if you were selling videogames, you'd have to be a fucking moron to say no and refuse what's basically free cash. The status of the free market is never the responsability of who sells, rather who buys. Bitch about people that buy these costumes for the prices they ask, not the devs for taking advantage from those retards.

Unless you want an external organization to step in and forbid certain practices, which usually is what these threads imply but never have the balls to state it because that's pretty much communism. You want to share a free market with a large swath of retards, you gotta endure this shit too. Plenty of good games that don't do this shit for you to buy and support. But they'll probably die since you're smart enough to pirate them, right? :^)

Furthermore, also understand this: the models, textures and what else are usually done far faster and sooner than the rest of the game. You can have what's essentially a finished product but it still needs testing and balancing or a few more scripts added into it. Until release time, there can be about 3-4 months were the artists have little to do, so they are tasked with the creation of these costumes that do no affect the main pipeline of work at all and can be sold later. This also means artists can focus on essential assets like terrains, backdrops and a single costume for every fighter so the rest of the team can finish the game and only do cosmetic shit afterwards.

Could they be added to the basegame when it's finished? Probably. But refer to the first point as to why they aren't.

Broken Steel was a piece of Fallout 3 they ripped out and sold later as something new.

Well I'm glad you managed to cherrypick and exception to my "usually".

It doesn't matter if you pirate it.

Wait, who the fuck eats ketchup with their pizza?
Is this peak American?

The DLC for Injustice 2 is fucking magical.
Firstly, on character select screen they constantly show you the silhoettes of characters you don't have, so you see that shit every time you want to play.
If you do get it, you get ONE character right now (red hood), then in july at an unreleased date you get sub-zero (what the fuck is he even doing here) and then fuck knows when you get Starfire, that nobody knows anything about besides her name and apperance. Not her moves, nothing.
Also, there are six more characters coming, which there are only sihoetes of. It's a literal cat in the bag, but you can buy it now! You don't know what's there, you don't know when it comes out, but you can pay money for it!

But wait, there's more! Ed Boon said that there will be twice the DLC characters of MKX, so after you buy all that shit that comes with the ultimate edition, be ready to get a second load of characters that will come out of nowhere! What a great deal!

Technically, if you pirate it you're harming both the main game and the DLC. The company won't make any distinction and assume "gamers just don't want more of this anymore".

Any pizza that doesn't come with tomato goes well with ketchup or some other sauce. Plus, you can dip fries or other stuff you eat alongside with your pizza.
If a pizza alone is enough of a meal for you you should really start making friends to share it with them

DLC is a Jew term designed to make people feel like they didn't pay 30$ for a texture that cost the company 10 cents to get made in India. By saying DLC instead of expansion they can claim any piece of content made and not included in the base game is DLC and has no set minimum amount of content required to be charged for so they can cut it into as many pieces as needed to post profits.

Expansion packs had a definition prior to DLC existing. It was a separate package of content that regularly added 1/3+ the amount of the original content and was actually produced new after the game shipped generally packaged with bug fixes/game balancing for people without internet connections or before most companies distributed patches over the internet.

They've decided to re-release the same game yearly since 2009 and introduce paid modding twice. They appear to think player mods should be packaged and sold as "DLC" with the same great Bethesda Bug Fixing™. You probably mentioned one of the worst DLC offenders possible.

The pizza metaphor presented as slices is retarded. It would be like ordering a pizza and while the workers have nothing to do because it's in the oven they mix up a new garlic sauce. When they tell you the pizza is ready for purchase they also offer the garlic sauce for an additional $1. You feel offended because while you do think the garlic sauce looks good you originally thought they were only offering pizza and were invested at that price. Now you think you're missing out because you know it exists and you didn't get it with the pizza's original price. Since you're twelve, you can't afford the garlic sauce and only only had enough for the pizza.

Then there's a pizza shop down the street that advertises and sells a pizza for preorder that looks great but months later when you get home after buying it you find out it has no sauce. You then learn the sauce is being sold later down the line as "new" sauce that didn't exist previously.

Then customers of both shops bitch because both don't include what is being considered pizza ingredients but one is very clearly removing something normally in pizza while the other is offering extra sauce. Somehow people think the practices are equivalent when they aren't.

And that is the current DLC market.

Only if people pirate the game in lieu of buying. Pirates who weren't going to buy the game anyway aren't suddenly going to be convinced otherwise.

user was refering to the DLC of Fallout up to 4 as well as Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim that had entire new areas added to the game with every DLC, like the Shivering Isles or the new Island in the Dragonborn DLC. Even Fallout 3 had a bunch of new places to explore with every DLC, and while some were fairly short, they were also priced accordingly.

Really, the only odd one of the bunch is possibly Hearthfire for Skyrim which I'd guess was just them testing what would essentially be the "settlement building" of Fallout 4, gauge the interest people had in that kind of stuff.
They also released the "survival mode" for Fallout 4 as a patch for free since they couldn't work it into an expansion.
Not saying "they aren't that bad" but rather that you can't just focus on the bad things they do, you gotta mention them all.

Then you weren't interested in the garlic sauce and you agreed to buy just the pizza for the price they asked. Your buyer's remorse is not their fault.

Your second example is grounds for sueing for false advertizing by the way, which is why no sane company actually does that. They'll at least give you some shitty sauce, even if it's their own jizz, just to avoid lawsuits or complaints, and if you don't like the sauce you got, stop buying from them.

Again, this is exactly how the free market works. You agree to buy something for a certain price, you get exactly that and nothing else. Of course they are gonna show you a bunch of cool new shit you can also spend your money on, every company does this. That's why McDonalds has their menus plastered all over the balcons, that's why cinemas sell their popcorn and soda right where they also sell the tickets.

Bitching about this is exactly like bitching that you go buy a movie ticket and get offended because the popcorn didn't came included after they displayed all the available menus while you were buying the tickets.

Was I just arguing with you in the psychology thread?

Probably. It's a similar topic at this point.

No problem. I can also, if you like, cherrypick the multiple Fallout 4 settlement DLC, which adds nothing different from stuff you can find on Nexus.

They have decent DLC available. That does not excuse their other stupidity.

You're missing the point it isn't about buyer's remorse. The first pizza was complete and priced accordingly. The garlic sauce wasn't offered previously but also isn't needed for you to enjoy the pizza. The point isn't the additional garlic sauce offered. The first pizza is complete and the sauce is extra. The idea is that people would be ok with the DLC sauce being charged additionally with the original pizza price if they were informed that it existed prior to the pizza being ready. Even though it didn't exist prior to that people are still going to feel cheated even if they aren't.

Watch_dogs locking things in config files for parity with console? To a certain extent Witcher 3's E3 reveal? Several other games also go through a severe downgrade through announcement and release.
How about this. The second pizza has sauce but it's cold even though the pizza is fresh and they charge you to heat it up.

I don't have a problem with actual additional content being charged for. The problem is that the market has made it acceptable to chop up a game and sell it as DLC when it is very obvious the content was cut on disk DLC, Day 1 DLC with significant content.

I'm not bitching about the shop offering new garlic sauce, I understand how it works. I'm bitching about the people offering fresh pizza with cold tomato sauce charging for the microwave.

It would be similar to buying a movie ticket and halfway through you get a scene blocked saying
It's probably still possible to enjoy the story but it's obviously still cut content.

It adds "compatibility" since it's worked into the base game.

The key difference here is "should have"

The pizza analogy you made is inaccurate since when you make a Pizza you don't make each slice individually. You make the pizza and optionally sell each slice off individually. This is built on the assumption that the dev chose after the fact to take those characters out of the vanilla game and sell them. When in reality it's likely those characters were only designed from the start to be sold later. It's like if you got a pizza and when you were buying it you were optionally given additional slices that were also made for a slight amount more.

I'm not defending the practice of DLC mind you but the claim that something "should" be in the game isn't accurate. Games are so expensive now that generally speaking even if DLC wasn't a thing it would be likely these characters wouldn't have made the cut regardless and would never have been greenlit as content for the game.

Now how much the dev charges for all the content is a different story altogether since they don't necessarily need to jew the player. A good example is that Overwatch's DLC is all free and when you just buy the game, everything that was produced post launch is also given to the player. This is in contrast to something like Paladins or Battleborn where you need to individually pay for heroes.

My biggest problem with DLC as a concept is more so how it's implemented. Almost every DLC I see released is implemented poorly. Like they either just give you something without you actually having to earn it, or they add something that's utterly pointless.

A good example is stuff like all of the clothing DLC or the DLC for Borderlands or something. Individually a person might like the cosmetics in those packs. However because you're just given it for spending 30 real world cents and it magically teleports into your inventory it subconsciously feels less valuable than if you had to actually work towards finding it in the world. A good example is in Saints Row 2, the costume shop wasn't on your ingame map. You had to know to go inside the mall and find the costume shop inside there, and there you'd find all of the costume clothing options you couldn't find anywhere else. Another example is how there are head pieces in Borderlands that you literally can only find by doing something specific. Like this one mob boss has a 1% drop rate for it. That head piece suddenly becomes much more valuable to a player who got it by sheer luck or by a player who worked for getting it. Compared to if you just spent 30 cents on it.

Like an aspect of modern games that I hate is if you buy a game post launch you just get a lot of free bullshit that you didn't earn. Like a good example is how if you buy the Witcher 2 now, you get a ton of optional stuff that magically appears on your character when you start the game. Like the intro cinematic has him putting on this blue leather armor you see in all of the trailers, and then he suddenly is wearing this hooded armor that was added post release. It's really jarring and completely breaks my immersion.

Some devs at least understand this is kind of stupid. Like JE Sawyer, the lead dev of Fallout New Vegas. Released a big fix mod for FNV that moved all of the preorder DLC from being given to you at the start of the game out of nowhere to putting them in individual parts of the world and having to find them. I wish more games did this but since DLC tends to appeal to instant gratification players and new purchasers I doubt it'll ever be a trend.

/thread

Games were always expensive. That's the one thing that has never changed.

They just figured out how to sell them like action figures/barbies.

OP's "Full" game is 59.99
the "Complete" game is $110

Compare this to spending 59$ for a Lego Star Wars kit. But if you want everything the Series the kit has to offer? That's 110$ you're paying up front, rather than paying 10$ for each little expansion box.

I mean expensive to develop. Games didn't always have Hollywood blockbuster game budgets and literal hundreds of developers working on a single project. Like back in the 90s it was common for a game to be made by less than 10 guys in under a year. Now if a game gets made in a year it's typically seen as being rushed.

No m8 it was common for a game to be made by 5 guys in 6 months.

You still made great points.
Dude you're full of good points.

vs

We have to go back.

There were still some buggy messes but they just didn't sell as well because word of mouth worked and most companies were new enough that you couldn't save a shit game by bringing in the fanboy/shill armies also less interconnected people.

Now a game gets "released" and has to be "fixed" by Day 1 patches equivalent to the original install size and several months "post launch" support in the form of
>buy more DLC or we will never get this pile of shit working still never gets fixed entirely
may as well just wait to see if the Ultimate Goy/Goy of the Year Edition is bug fixed/content complete enough to be worthwhile because it may as well be an entirely new game at that point. And they charge for it like that too

Your pizza metaphor isn't quite right.
It's more like they give you the 12 slice pizza you ordered, but each topping, including cheese, sauce and spices, costs extra, so while you do technically get a complete pizza (game) for the base price, it costs way more to give it toppings (content) that ought to have been covered by the base price to begin with.
To further your pizza example, what ought to happen is the base price covers the basic pizza(complete base game), with extra payments being for side dishes (expansions)

Shivering Isles is exactly what DLC should be, it's an excelent example. And horse armor kinda as well depending on how you look at it. It was a dumb feature that clearly wasn't meant to be part of the game and it's essentially cosmetic since there's no mounted combat nor is your horse supposed to tank damage. Considering what they gave you, it was pretty cheap as well. Although, it was mostly a bad joke by them, so…

That's stupid. That's essentially what pre-order bonus are or day-one DLC or even Season Passes and I don't think you'd be defending those.

If someone makes Game A and says he'll be selling it for 20$ and you agree to it, whether there's DLC B, C and D for 5$ each has no bearing on it since you'd still have to pay for it afterwards. If the game looks complete when you decide to pay the 20$, it doesn't become "incomplete" when they show even more content, that's just too stupid.
Anyone that falls for that shit is an idiot since it's that kind of "buyer's remorse" that marketing exploits and that feeling of "missing out" is engineered by them so you end up paying 35$ instead of only 20$.

If you're that kind of retard, refrain from buying videogames at launch and wait for the GOTY edition or just buy the game and pirate the extra content.

The content is still there then. All's well in legal terms.
The reveal of a prebuilt, pre-rendered video that was likely not even the final version? That's not gonna stand in court.

You keep mentioning performance issues but that's not what it seemed you were mentioning. If Witcher 3 did not had Ciri after she appears in every marketing material or if you didn't got a sword that was promised with a pre-order, that's one thing. That exactly one piece of advertized content not being delivered.
Performance issues are not the same thing since companies can defend themselves with "alpha builds" or "works on my machine!", it's really not the same thing.
You want more pizza analogies, it's like asking for a meat pizza and when it comes it doesn't look at all like the catalogue, but it still has meat so shut up?

Stop. The clients made it acceptable, not the market. Put the blame where it belongs.
And last I checked, Capcom got a lot of flack for that shit, as did Bungie for Destiny. I really have no idea where you got the idea this is "acceptable".

What? No, it's not like that at all. Shivering Isles for instance is never mentioned or talked about during the whole game and neither is any expansion in any Bethesda game, for instance or even Borderlands. Each DLC pack is it's own thing separate from the main game.
There are a few specific examples like Destiny where they left cliff-hangers for the DLC but they got a lot of flak for that shit and Destiny 2 will pay the price for that shit.

Blame the casuals supporting their jewish acts by buying those dlcs.

But that's wrong. Having different toppings on the pizza would be like getting totally different games. You see, sometimes you'll get the pizza you pay for and they'll maybe offer you some extra slices or even sides and desserts to go with it, but nowadays the pizza you buy is just missing a slice and they try to sell you that slice back as extra. More commonly though you'll open the box and the pizza will be raw and some toppings and slices missing. You'll complain to the driver that your pizza is ass and not what you ordered and the response you get will range from, "At least you got a pizza," to "Oh shit, I'm sorry. I'll go back and get you a new one." Then your roommate will step up and ask why you were being a dick to the driver and tip him like $20 regardless of the response.

I feel like somewhere along the way the pizza analogy got a bit retarded and wrapped up. Shivering Isles was an example of good DLC but that wasn't all the DLC they've released. The Horse Armor DLC was not the worst thing by itself but it brought the idea forward and I do think it probably popularized both selling skins and selling them at ridiculous prices. So while it may have started as a joke it has led to the market now where the overwhelming majority for a lot of games isn't new content being produced but new skins being released because they are the easiest money possible.

I don't have a problem with pre-order bonuses or day-one DLC as long as the content is not cut from a previously finished game. Art team doing doing fuck all? Sure cosmetics are fine. I don't agree with season passes because you're buying content that isn't announced or created yet.

I disagree with certain games in very specific circumstances DLC that is tied into the story and later referenced in future games or DLC that imbalances the base game one way or another but I understand what you're saying and that isn't what I was going for the with the garlic sauce. It is acceptable to produce cosmetic content for pre-order before launch but some people are still going to feel cheated and you can't fix that. The problem is that practice, for some reason, made people defend DLC that is clearly cut out of the game for sale at a later time because it was a "bonus" either as Day 1 DLC or even Season Pass and even though one is very different from the other some people will hate both as if they are the same thing.

I tend to do this already for companies that are known to release large amounts of DLC.

The point I was trying to make there is that they are announcing games at trade shows and showing them off at far better quality than the game ends up shipping at. Pre-orders are still sold off of that reveal and while a lot of people are aware it won't look like that it should still be discouraged. Not performance issues, but producing 20-30 minutes of pre-rendered or heavily juiced demos as even a representation of the final product is disingenuous. If you know you aren't going to ship 300GB of high fidelity textures you shouldn't show the game like that.

The clients made it acceptable by making it profitable. If the clients had a serious enough problem with it they would stop buying from them and it would no longer be profitable. The fact that it continues to happen implies that whatever client IS buying allows it even if they might not like it. The market didn't make it acceptable but they sure are seeing how far they can stretch the practice.

That was probably a casualty of bad formatting and was a reference to content that exists but is sold off as DLC later. Entirely different from re-cuts or bonus features
You buy a movie ticket expecting to see a full movie. The movie ends up having several very obvious points where content is locked off but you won't be able to get to it until you buy something additional DVD later.

what is a whole game?

It's more like buying a pizza, then buying extra slices that are missing toppings and are usually of lesser quality than the pizza itself.
I never noticed that. Thanks for giving me another reason to hate Netherealm, OP.